[Wikisource-l] Re: MediaWiki, Wikisource extensions, and new implementations deployment

[Andrea Zanni]

Hey everybody,
I stumbled upon this message by chance, but now I'm curious:
are you implementing IIIF on Wikisource?
That's very interesting!

Aubrey

On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 1:13 PM Ruthven  wrote:

> Hi all, and thanks for the info.
>
> I get from your messages that there are two major points to be solved:
> 1. A clear lack of communication (mass messages are often unread or
> quickly read, because there is some abuse of the tool,  and what is
> important gets lost in the flood of messages). Probably it's not the role
> of developers to communicate, but someone has to do it.
> 2. A clear lack of management. There is a global lack of trust in
> Mediawiki developers for the reason above, but also because certain changes
> introduced more issues than they solved. I agree with Sam: there is a need
> for product managers, who can also communicate about important changes, but
> also check the development and be sure that new changes can be safely
> deployed. I mean: it's the basics of software development!
>
> I don't think it's a matter of time if we focus on one feature at a time,
> test it, test it again, do beta test, and then merge it. We're not a
> software house: we do have time. I understand that volunteers might not be
> happy in being constrained by a strict workflow, but I also understand that
> work has to be done well or not done at all.
>
> Btw, I understand that there is beta.wikisource somewhere. Maybe an
> invitation to the different projects to test the new features there before
> the merge, would be a good occasion to involve more people in quality
> control. (sorry if this has been done, and I've missed it)
>
> Cheers,
> A.
> *Ruthven* on Wikipedia
>
>
> On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 at 04:45, Sam Wilson  wrote:
>
>> I think most Wikisource developers are likely to be on this list. Of
>> course, it's best to make sure there are Phabricator tickets for every
>> separate bug or feature request.
>> On 21/11/21 1:36 am, Ankry wrote:
>>
>> Well, I was notified by techncally skilled users that the ned OpenSeadragon
>> library is much heavier and more memory consuming than curreently used
>> tools. So I can only hope that its load into memory can be disabled if one
>> needs so.
>>
>> (may be critical while working on multiple pages at once)
>>
>> However, I doubt if any technical comments from communities expressed
>> here will reach developers. And which wiki pages would be more appropriate
>> for such comments.
>>
>> Ankry
>> W dniu 20.11.2021 o 14:33, Ruthven pisze:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>   as usual, I get surprised every time there are major changes on the
>> MediaWiki software that are deployed without providing advance warning to
>> the community.
>> Every time it's the same story: something stops working on the project. A
>> gadget, a toolbar or some personalised JS.
>>
>> This time it was T288141 (see https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T288141),
>> that was deployed in all the Wikisources (then rolled back because
>> WikiMedia computer scientists are the best) completely disrupting redesigning
>> the image side of the Page namespace. This affected the toolbars (see
>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T296033) and several gadgets around
>> all the Wikisources.
>>
>> I am not saying that MediaWiki software shouldn't be improved: it's
>> normal that we're trying to get all we can from this outdated software. I
>> am just asking that major changes that affect all the Wikisources should be
>> announced in every single Village Pump waaay before deploying them on the
>> projects.
>>
>> Is it possible, as a Usergroup, to do a little pressure to be considered
>> as a community and not as guinea pigs on which to deploy new,
>> partially-tested features?
>>
>> Alex
>> *Ruthven* on Wikipedia
>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Stepping down as an admin for the list

[Andrea Zanni]

Thanks guys,
happy to hear from you too.
I'm not abandoning Wikisource, but it's years now that I'm focused on other
stuff
(having a son changes things :DD)

Give some names and mails and I'll put you as admins of the list.

Thanks!

Aubrey

On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 7:01 PM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1000 to what Mohsen said.
>
> Regards,
> Bodhisattwa
>
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 21:11 Mardetanha  wrote:
>
>> .hey Andrea
>> it is very nice to hear from you and it is also very upsetting to learn
>> you are not active as before, if you need help I can help you with mailing
>> list, but please stay
>> Mardetanha
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 1:45 PM Andrea Zanni 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> it's few years that I'm no longer involved in Wikimedia (at least not as
>>> much as before), but I'm still admin of a few lists ;-)
>>>
>>> Does anyone want to take care of this one?
>>> I'm not doing a good job and would love to let others curate it more
>>> than I do.
>>>
>>> Let me know.
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Aubrey
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[Wikisource-l] Stepping down as an admin for the list

[Andrea Zanni]

Hello everyone,
it's few years that I'm no longer involved in Wikimedia (at least not as
much as before), but I'm still admin of a few lists ;-)

Does anyone want to take care of this one?
I'm not doing a good job and would love to let others curate it more than I
do.

Let me know.
Cheers,

Aubrey
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[Wikisource-l] Fwd: Wikimedia affiliate/user group social media accounts

[Andrea Zanni]

Can someone reply to this?


-- Forwarded message -
From: Aubrie Johnson 
Date: Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 1:13 AM
Subject: Wikimedia affiliate/user group social media accounts
To:
Cc: 


Hello,

The Digital Media team at the Wikimedia Foundation is currently updating
our information about movement social media accounts so that we can share
best practices, send out information about upcoming campaigns, and ensure
that we're amplifying messaging that's coming out from accounts across the
movement.

Could you please let us know:

a) What active accounts your affiliate uses on Facebook, Twitter, and any
other social media networks?
b) Who runs those accounts?
c) Are there any other Wikimedia-related accounts you’ve managed in the
past that are now inactive?

We're in the process of sending out biweekly emails to the Communications
Committee mailing list (wmfc...@lists.wikimedia.org) and want to make sure
that we're reaching everyone who is using social media to move our movement
forward.

Thanks! Please let us know if you have any questions, using
digitalme...@wikimedia.org, which reaches the entire team.

. . . . . . . . . . . .

Aubrie Johnson (she/her)
Social Media Associate
Wikimedia Foundation

Follow Wikipedia on Twitter  | Facebook
 | Instagram 
| Pinterest  | Line

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[Wikisource-l] Fwd: #100usergroups social media campaign

[Andrea Zanni]

I just received this message from WMF:
do you want to propose a message?

Aubrey

-- Forwarded message -
From: Dumisani Ndubane 
Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 1:01 PM
Subject: #100usergroups social media campaign
To: Zanni Andrea 


Hello Andrea

We are excited to inform you that we have officially passed a significant
milestone in the Wikimedia movement this week: having 100 user groups!!

To celebrate, we'd like to propose that each user group post a short
message on social media on *Friday 19 October 2018. *

To participate please post a unique fact about Wikisource Community User
Group on your social media account, using the hashtag *#100usergroups. *

We will then amplify some of these messages into the @wikimedia account.

Thank you!

*Dumisani Ndubane*
Monitoring & Evaluation Strategist
Wikimedia Foundation

✆ | +27 61 497 5507
✉ | dndub...@wikimedia.org  

https://donate.wikimedia.org/


*"Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge."*
[image: beacon]
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikisource meetup in Wikimania

[Andrea Zanni]

Guys, it should be really easy to plan a meetup:
look at the program and venue, find a suitable spot and decide a room and a
date.
You'll have time to change it accordingly.

Aubrey

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 6:35 PM, balaji  wrote:

> Hi,
> Is there any update regarding the wikisource meetup?
> Regards,
> J. Balaji
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 2:36 PM Mardetanha 
> wrote:
>
>> agreed
>>
>> Mardetanha
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 9:41 PM, balaji  wrote:
>>
>>> we should plan...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 9:44 PM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
>>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>

 Hi all,

 Any plan for Wikisource meetup during Wikimania this year?

 --
 Bodhisattwa

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Re: [Wikisource-l] edit-a-thon for wikisource

[Andrea Zanni]

You can count in different ways proofread pages (3 points)
and validated pages (1 point).
Then you just count (an editathon is short so you don't need fancy things,
although there are scripts to do it).

We give the 1st prize to the person with more points,
than we give the 2nd and 3rd prize with a "lottery": every point you have
is one ticket, so the more you have points the more chances you have to
win.

I encourage you to Keep It Simple for the first time: make sure to check
that everyone is behaving and not cheating (ie marking as validated a page
that is quickly read), and you should not have problems.

Aubrey

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 8:17 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) 
wrote:

> balaji, 18/03/2018 19:55:
>
>> Suppose If we have to conduct edit-a-thon for wikisource how to
>> quantify the contribution of the contributions ? how to rank them and award
>> prizes?
>>
>
> The Italian Wikisource would probably use the same criteria as forteh
> Wikisource birthday contest: count the number of pages created or brought
> to an higher proofread level, apply a different weight to the two as needed.
>
> Federico
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2018 - Registration closes in one month!

[Andrea Zanni]

@Vigneron and Balaji
Please register asap: Cornelius from Wikimedia DE just asked me why nobody
from our UG signed up.

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 7:06 PM, Andrea Zanni 
wrote:

> I think it's best that Vigneron and Balaji go.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 9 Jan 2018, at 5:59 PM, Hélène wrote:
>> > Hi all!
>> > I think it is a good idea that Balaji becomes a WS User Group's
>> >  representant. As for Aubrey and Vigneron, I don't know who would
>> >  be the best delegate...
>>
>> I agree. I'd rather you all got to go! But if there's to be a choice,
>> then I'd say Balaji is a good representative.
>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2018 - Registration closes in one month!

[Andrea Zanni]

I think it's best that Vigneron and Balaji go.


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Jan 2018, at 5:59 PM, Hélène wrote:
> > Hi all!
> > I think it is a good idea that Balaji becomes a WS User Group's
> >  representant. As for Aubrey and Vigneron, I don't know who would
> >  be the best delegate...
>
> I agree. I'd rather you all got to go! But if there's to be a choice, then
> I'd say Balaji is a good representative.
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2018 - Registration closes in one month!

[Andrea Zanni]

Dear Wikisource Community User Group,
this is an opportunity to decide who is going to the Wikimedia Conference
representing the international communities of Wikisource
at one of the major annual Wikimedia gatherings.
It's a very important part of the Wikimedia life, and in the past we know
it serves us, as a community.
It's very important for us to do this right.

So I encourage you to express an opinion, vote or something else for
sending someone.
There are 2 spots and, as of know, 3 candidates.
* Balaji, from Tamil Wikisource
* Vigneron, from French Wikisource
* Aubrey, from Italian Wikisource

We can even decide to throw a coin, but it's important for the community to
express themselves, and the time is up, we have a few days left.
I'm more than happy to resign my candidacy for this if this is what the
community wants: this is all about what the community wants, and, above
all, the community expressing it's will. There's no need for a User Group
if we can't decide such a simple thing together.

So, at the moment, I read
* 2 votes for Balaji
* 2 votes for Vigneron,
* 1 for Aubrey.

If at the end of tomorrow evening (European time?) there is no response,
they will be the delegates.(I can be a backup, just in case)
By the way, I think with Nemo that a new duo is a good idea, but, again, I
don't want the one who decides which is the new duo :-P
So it's your responsibility to choose it.


Cheers,

Aubrey



On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 11:45 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) 
wrote:

> Andrea Zanni, 05/01/2018 12:34:
>
>> Another possibility is that Vigneron and Balaji go, of course: an
>> experienced member like Vigneron can and will be able to introduce Balaji
>> to the right people.
>>
>
> Indeed, it would be optimal to end up with a new effective duo. :)
>
> Federico
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2018 - Registration closes in one month!

[Andrea Zanni]

We're a bit stuck :-S.
I'd encourage also others to chime in and give their free opinion. This
should be the UG decision.
Another possibility is that Vigneron and Balaji go, of course: an
experienced member like Vigneron can and will be able to introduce Balaji
to the right people.
Also: any women?


On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 4:12 AM, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Considering the positive responses to attend the conference, IMHO, Andrea
> and Nicolas are the best persons to represent the user group in Berlin.
>
> Best,
>
> On 4 Jan 2018 10:59 pm, "Nicolas VIGNERON" 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> 10 days until registration are closed.
>>
>> I can let my place to J. Balaji (indeed it is a good idea to have someone
>> from a « non-western communities ») who can go with Andrea (and I stay
>> available as plan B if needed).
>>
>> Is everyone ok with that ?
>>
>> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2018 - Registration closes in one month!

[Andrea Zanni]

Me and Tpt were there last year,
and I'm available if the User Group is ok with that, but maybe others would
like to go
representing the WCUG?

The Conference is a matter of talking, talking, talking with a lot of
people,
and convincing Sam's boss to let him work for Wikisource ;-)

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:33 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> I just wanted to make sure there will be some wikisourcerers at this
> event. Is that so?
>
>
>  Message transféré 
> Sujet : [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2018 - Registration closes in
> one month!
> Date : Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:23:18 +0100
> De : Michelle Poltier 
> 
> Répondre à : Wikimedia Mailing List 
> 
> Pour : wikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
>
> Dear Wikimedians,
>
> Thanks to those of you who have already registered for the Wikimedia
> Conference 2018 – we are already very excited to host the conference
> from April 20 to April 22, 2018 in Berlin!
>
> == Registration information ==
>
> You have not registered for the conference yet? Your affiliation is
> eligible [1] to attend the conference and you have been selected to
> represent your affiliation in Berlin? Then please be kindly reminded
> to register until Monday, January 15, 2018. To register for the
> conference, please find the link to the registration form below. [2]
>
> == Holiday break of the organizing team ==
>
> In view of the upcoming holidays, we would like to inform you that the
> WMCON18 organizing team will be out of the office from December 22,
> 2017 until January 3, 2018.
>
> If you need assistance or have any questions, we recommend you to
> contact us before December 22. Otherwise, we will respond to your
> emails as soon as possible upon our return.
>
> == Visa information ==
>
> We strongly advise all those of you who need a visa to register until
> Monday, December 18, 2017.
>
> We will do our best to send the documents (letter of invitation,
> foreign travel health insurance, copy of registration of association
> of WMDE) by December 22, 2017, which are needed for the visa
> application process, to everyone, who registers until Monday, December
> 18, 2017. Should you register after this date, we will prepare and
> send the documents to you beginning of January.
>
> Further information on the visa process and assistance can be found on Meta. 
> [3]
>
> Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Daniela & Michelle on behalf of the organizing team
> Wikimedia deutschlandwm...@wikimedia.de
>
>
> [1] 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2018/Eligibility_Criteria
>
> [2] 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2018/Registration_Information#Registration_link
>
> [3] 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2018/Visa_Process_and_Assistance
>
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[Wikisource-l] Wikistats 2.0

[Andrea Zanni]

New Wikistats available, search for your language wikisource:
https://stats.wikimedia.org/v2/#/all-projects
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[Wikisource-l] Improve workflow for uploading books to Wikisource

[Andrea Zanni]

In a shameless plug, I ask you to endorse this project in the Community
WishList:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2017_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Wikisource/Improve_workflow_for_uploading_books_to_Wikisource#Voting

There are other very good ideas in the list, so fell free to propose them
here ;-)
It would be good to start a discussion.

Aubrey
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Hangout session

[Andrea Zanni]

Those of you who where in Vienna 2 years ago know what you need for a
Wikisource conference:
a good hotel in a city with a good airport, but most of all the will and
time to organize an international conference.

The moment there is an organizing committee for the
logistics/food/accomodation/travel/visas/grant,
the programme is the easy part, and we all can contribute.

November 2018 sounds good ;-)

On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 8:28 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:

> Hi Sam,
>
> I just had a glance at the table of content, and my eyes directly catched
> "2018 Conference". In fact I already had that in mind for several weeks, as
> I would like to organize this event in Strasbourg. Indeed, starting on
> january our local user group will focus on Wikisource, and I would like
> Strasbourg to host as many Wikimedia events as possible in the coming years.
>
> Strasbourg hosted the Wikiconvention francophone second edition just a few
> weeks ago, so we still have hot contacts with misc. institutional partner
> that can help on such an event. Actually, I already started to launch the
> idea in conversations with some of them.
>
> Any feedback on this proposal is welcome.
>
> Sorry that I missed the confcall.
>
> Le 05/11/2017 à 01:33, Sam Wilson a écrit :
>
> The notes from yesterdays hangout are now online:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisource_Community_
> User_Group/November_2017_Hangout
>
> Please tweak as required.
>
>
> Would Saturday December 16 at 1400UTC be a good time for the next hangout?
>
>
> On Sat, 4 Nov 2017, at 09:38 PM, Nicolas VIGNERON wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Reminder, the meeting is in half an hour on https://hangouts.google.com/
> hangouts/_/wikimedia.org/wikisource
>
> Notes will be taken on https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/wikisource-hangout
> and the meta page to gather all these informations is
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisource_Community_
> User_Group/November_2017_Hangout
>
> Cdlt,
> ~nicolas
>
> 2017-10-31 20:03 GMT+01:00 Nicolas VIGNERON :
>
> Hi everyone,
> From January to April of this year, we had hangout session to talk more
> directly about Wikisource (see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> i/Wikisource_Community_User_Group#2017 for the notes of these sessions).
>
> Among subjects that can be discuss:
> - Wikisource and Wikidata (and some infos about the WikidataCon in Berlin
> last weekend)
> - a second Wikisource conference in 2018 ?
> - various issues or accomplishments you want to share or need help from
> others
> - the Wikisource Community User Group
>
> What do you think of doing this again? Who would be interested to join?
> (it was during week-end - Saturday or Sunday - afternoon to allow people
> from all other the globe to join in, I suggest Saturday 4 from 14:00 UTC to
> 15:00 UTC https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=No
> vember+Wikisource+Hangout&iso=2017-11-04T14:00:00).
>
> Cdlt, ~nicolas
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Re: [Wikisource-l] quickstatements for missing editions

[Andrea Zanni]

Anyway, Sam,
please continue the development of the Ws-search.
I just played with it a bit, but I find this to be an excellent tool for
1. importing data from WS to WD
2. *maintaining* WD up to date

Point 2 is important as point 1.

Maintenance is impossible if you can't do queries on WD or a system to
"check" if your book is on WD or not.

Aubrey


On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 2:14 PM, Yann Forget  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Wikidata is a list of facts, so I don't see how any other license would be
> appropriate.
> It is similar to copyright on patents and facts, as some commercial
> entities have tried to impose. I am obviously against that.
> I am also against copyright restrictions for databases, as they existed in
> some countries, so I can't advocate puting one on Wikidata.
> The objective, like the rest of Wikimedia, is allowing the widest possible
> use of knowledge. CC0 for Wikidata fits quite well with this objective.
>
> Regards,
>
> Yann
>
> 2017-11-01 14:39 GMT+01:00 mathieu stumpf guntz <
> psychosl...@culture-libre.org>:
>
>> Hey everyone,
>>
>> I seize the opportunity of this planed import to make you aware that I
>> started a project research on Wikiversity about Wikidata and its license :
>>
>> https://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/Recherche:La_licence_CC-0_
>> de_Wikidata,_origine_du_choix,_enjeux,_et_prospections_sur_
>> les_aspects_de_gouvernance_communautaire_et_d%E2%80%99%
>> C3%A9quit%C3%A9_contributive
>>
>> Admittedly, a driving force behind the launch of this project is an
>> intuitive aversion against CC0, and the will of the Wikidata team to launch
>> their lexicological solution with, without, or even against Wiktionary
>> communities. But as intuition is never as useful as when feeding hypotheses
>> of rational inquiry whose conclusions might reject it, I thought preferable
>> to make such a research project so I could stand on a firmer vision of
>> implications of this choice.
>>
>> Also, whatever one might ethically feel about this topic is one thing,
>> legal issues is a really different matter. So far, I have didn't found any
>> evidence of a serious inquiry of letting people make mass import of data
>> within Wikidata. But hopefully I'll soon be given links showing such an
>> inquiry was indeed performed. Not requiring source and evidence of a free
>> license covering imported data is a great way to put at risk of massive
>> legal infraction, not only the Wikidata project, but anyone who reuse its
>> data.
>>
>> I welcome any source that you might judge valuable for the research
>> project evoked above. That is anything speaking about how the license was
>> chose, opinion of the community regarding this choice, ins and outs of the
>> reuse ability, what notable partnership was ease or prevented due to the
>> license, how external reusers do or do not give back through one form
>> (better curated or enlarged set of data), or an other (technical advises,
>> institutional promotion, funds…), and anything you think worth mentioning
>> regarding Wikidata license. It would be kind to check it is not already in
>> the list of sources I fetched so far, see https://fr.wikiversity.org/wik
>> i/Recherche:La_licence_CC-0_de_Wikidata,_origine_du_choix,
>> _enjeux,_et_prospections_sur_les_aspects_de_gouvernance_
>> communautaire_et_d%E2%80%99%C3%A9quit%C3%A9_contributive/
>> Wikidata_:_les_origines_du_choix_de_CC-0#Notes_et_r.C3.A9ferences
>>
>> Also let me know if you would be interested with a translation. So far
>> I'm writing it in my native language to hasten the draft outcome and I
>> don't necessarily expect huge interest for the subject beyond myself. But
>> if people show interest, or even would like to contribute, I can switch to
>> Esperanto, or even the less likely demand of an English version. ;)
>>
>> Inquirely,
>> psychoslave
>>
>> Le 31/10/2017 à 16:14, Thomas Pellissier Tanon a écrit :
>>
>> Hello Sam,
>>
>> Thank you for this nice feature!
>>
>> I have created a few months ago a prototype of Wikisource to Wikidata 
>> importation tool for the French Wikisource based on the schema.org 
>> annotation I have added to the main header template (I definitely think we 
>> should move from our custom microformat to this schema.org markup that could 
>> be much more structured). It's not yet ready but I plan to move it forward 
>> in the coming weeks. A beginning of frontend to add to your Wikidata 
>> common.js is here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Tpt/ws2wd.js
>> We should probably find a way to merge the two projects.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>>
>> Le 31 oct. 2017 à 15:10, Nicolas VIGNERON  
>>  a écrit :
>>
>> 2017-10-31 13:16 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell  
>> :
>> Sorry, I am much more of a Wikidatan than a Wikisourcerer! I was referring 
>> to items like this onehttps://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21125368
>>
>> No need to be sorry, that is actually a good question and this example is 
>> even better (I totally forgot this kind of case).
>>
>> For now, this is probably better to deal with 

Re: [Wikisource-l] wikisource "work" pages or "multiple editions" pages

[Andrea Zanni]

>
> for instance Johann Wolfgang von Goethe:
> 
>
> Goethe was an author, but there are also works about Goethe. In de.ws
> portal-page and author-page about Geothe are merged in one. There is no
> difference. Don't expect something else.
>

Well, that's something that every Wikisource cando: adding books *about* an
author in his Author page. It.ws does this too.

BTW, Italian Wikisource decided for a Opera namespace because we just find
it very useful to differentiate with "normal" books in ns0. It's just more
clear for us, especially regarding Wikidata integration.
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Re: [Wikisource-l] quickstatements for missing editions

[Andrea Zanni]

Authors from Italian Wikisource have already a lot (if not all) metadata on
Wikidata:
authors are *easy* compared to books (don't have the whole work-edition
issue),
so I think that users Candalua, Alex brollo and others solved this problem
long ago.

When you've copied all the metadata from WS authors to WD items (phase 1),
you then need a system in place to
* pull the data from WD and put it in WS (Lua templates or something)
* maintain it (the templates need to remind the user to go to WD and update
the information)
This is phase 2.

Unfortunately, for books we're always pre-phase 1 :-(

Aubrey


On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:

> Yes you definitely need this flow of useful&visible interproject links
> both ways: as a trigger for Wikidatans to do more with Wikisource pages,
> and as a trigger to Wikisourcerers to do more with Wikidata items
>
> On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:
>
>> Yup, still true. We do at least have a common goal of structured HTML, as
>> defined by http://schema.org/CreativeWork
>>
>> It sounds like Tpt's scraper will do wonders, if a Wikisource just
>> complies to that. I think that's one of the next steps we need to take.
>>
>> I sort of figure from the English Wikisource point of view that we should
>> do more on bringing data *in* from Wikidata, in our {{header}}, rather than
>> working on making it easier to extract data *out* with
>> microformats/structured-HTML. Well, we should do both, of course! :-) But
>> my feeling from the process of getting Author data in from Wikidata is that
>> the whole Wikidata integration becomes so much more worthwhile and clearer
>> (and we sort out the various edge cases) when we're actively using it for
>> real.
>>
>> But of course, each Wikisource is in a similar position. :-( And are we
>> to all be developing the Lua scripts and templates in isolation? Indeed no!
>> :-) We shall put them all toegther in our brave new Wikisource extension! :)
>>
>> —sam
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 1 Nov 2017, at 04:03 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>>
>> @Sam, Tpt,
>> my personal experience is too that HTML is the way to pull out the
>> Wikisource important metadata,
>> but it's also that every Wikisource has sort of a different way to show
>> them,
>> meaning that you need to tweak your scraper for each Wikisource.
>> Is that still true? Last time I did it was more than one year ago, but I
>> need to try it again soon.
>> Aubrey
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 1:00 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:
>>
>> Yes I think you're definitely right! The easier way to send Wikisource
>> data to Wikidata is going to be a clever gadget that reads the
>> microformat or schema'd info in each page. My hack was just a quick and
>> easy test at getting some things added. :)
>>
>> Ultimately, I'm actually not that excited about working on the tools
>> that we need to transfer the data. No no I don't mean that! Well, just
>> that the end point we're aiming at is that a bunch of info *won't be* at
>> all in Wikisource, but will be pulled from Wikidata, and so I am much
>> more interested in making better tools for working with the data in
>> Wikidata. :-) If you see what I mean.
>>
>> My idea with ws-search is that it will progressively pull more and more
>> data from Wikidata, and only resort to HTML scraping where the data is
>> missing from Wikidata. I'm attempting to encapsulate this logic in the
>> `wikisource/api` PHP library.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2017, at 11:14 PM, Thomas Pellissier Tanon wrote:
>> > Hello Sam,
>> >
>> > Thank you for this nice feature!
>> >
>> > I have created a few months ago a prototype of Wikisource to Wikidata
>> > importation tool for the French Wikisource based on the schema.org
>> > annotation I have added to the main header template (I definitely think
>> > we should move from our custom microformat to this schema.org markup
>> that
>> > could be much more structured). It's not yet ready but I plan to move it
>> > forward in the coming weeks. A beginning of frontend to add to your
>> > Wikidata common.js is here:
>> > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Tpt/ws2wd.js
>> > We should probably find a way to merge the two projects.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Thomas
>> >
>> > > Le 31 oct. 2017 à 15:10, Nicolas VIGNERON 
>> a écrit :
>> > >
>> > > 2017-10-31 13:16 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell :

Re: [Wikisource-l] Hangout session

[Andrea Zanni]

I won't be able to attend this Saturday, but please do it ;-)

On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 1:03 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Great idea! I'm up for this Saturday.
>
>
> On Wed, 1 Nov 2017, at 03:03 AM, Nicolas VIGNERON wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
> From January to April of this year, we had hangout session to talk more
> directly about Wikisource (see https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikisource_Community_User_Group#2017 for the notes of these
> sessions).
>
> Among subjects that can be discuss:
> - Wikisource and Wikidata (and some infos about the WikidataCon in Berlin
> last weekend)
> - a second Wikisource conference in 2018 ?
> - various issues or accomplishments you want to share or need help from
> others
> - the Wikisource Community User Group
>
> What do you think of doing this again? Who would be interested to join?
> (it was during week-end - Saturday or Sunday - afternoon to allow people
> from all other the globe to join in, I suggest Saturday 4 from 14:00 UTC to
> 15:00 UTC https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=
> November+Wikisource+Hangout&iso=2017-11-04T14:00:00).
>
> Cdlt, ~nicolas
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Re: [Wikisource-l] quickstatements for missing editions

[Andrea Zanni]

@Sam, Tpt,
my personal experience is too that HTML is the way to pull out the
Wikisource important metadata,
but it's also that every Wikisource has sort of a different way to show
them,
meaning that you need to tweak your scraper for each Wikisource.
Is that still true? Last time I did it was more than one year ago, but I
need to try it again soon.

Aubrey

On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 1:00 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Yes I think you're definitely right! The easier way to send Wikisource
> data to Wikidata is going to be a clever gadget that reads the
> microformat or schema'd info in each page. My hack was just a quick and
> easy test at getting some things added. :)
>
> Ultimately, I'm actually not that excited about working on the tools
> that we need to transfer the data. No no I don't mean that! Well, just
> that the end point we're aiming at is that a bunch of info *won't be* at
> all in Wikisource, but will be pulled from Wikidata, and so I am much
> more interested in making better tools for working with the data in
> Wikidata. :-) If you see what I mean.
>
> My idea with ws-search is that it will progressively pull more and more
> data from Wikidata, and only resort to HTML scraping where the data is
> missing from Wikidata. I'm attempting to encapsulate this logic in the
> `wikisource/api` PHP library.
>
>
> On Tue, 31 Oct 2017, at 11:14 PM, Thomas Pellissier Tanon wrote:
> > Hello Sam,
> >
> > Thank you for this nice feature!
> >
> > I have created a few months ago a prototype of Wikisource to Wikidata
> > importation tool for the French Wikisource based on the schema.org
> > annotation I have added to the main header template (I definitely think
> > we should move from our custom microformat to this schema.org markup
> that
> > could be much more structured). It's not yet ready but I plan to move it
> > forward in the coming weeks. A beginning of frontend to add to your
> > Wikidata common.js is here:
> > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Tpt/ws2wd.js
> > We should probably find a way to merge the two projects.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> > > Le 31 oct. 2017 à 15:10, Nicolas VIGNERON 
> a écrit :
> > >
> > > 2017-10-31 13:16 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell :
> > > Sorry, I am much more of a Wikidatan than a Wikisourcerer! I was
> referring to items like this one
> > > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21125368
> > >
> > > No need to be sorry, that is actually a good question and this example
> is even better (I totally forgot this kind of case).
> > >
> > > For now, this is probably better to deal with it by hands (and I'm not
> sure what this tools can even do for this).
> > >
> > > Cdlt, ~nicolas
> > > ___
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Re: [Wikisource-l] quickstatements for missing editions

[Andrea Zanni]

>From a Wikidata point of view, it's really good to have one dedicated page
ofr the "work" and different ones for the "editions": you can structure
both Wikisource and Wikidata with a clear structure, without ambiguities.

This is an example of a Wikisource Work page:
https://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Opera:Filocolo

These are very important books that have had different editions in the
past, and a dedicated namespace is good so you can have
* dedicated templates
* dedicated categories
* dedicated layout

A disambiguation page is in ns0, and it's conceptually different from a
"multiple edition" page... So in this way is easy to tell the difference.



On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 7:46 PM, Nicolas VIGNERON <
vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2017-10-31 18:45 GMT+01:00 Andrea Zanni :
>
>> For the "work" concept, Italian Wikisource decided to create a real and
>> new namespace, "Opera" (which means work).
>> It's the one page where we store the links to multiple editions of a
>> certain book we have.
>>
>> It's not a disambiguation page in the sense that a disambiguation page
>> works with different books from different authors with the same title
>> e.g. "Poems"...
>>
>> Aubrey
>>
>
> I forgot about that too.
> Aubrey; Could you tell us the advantage and inconvenient of this system
> (and in comparison to the 'multiple editions' pages of the others
> Wikisources).
>
> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>
> PS: this is the kind of question that would be interesting to have during
> a hangout session like we had (I will write a separate mail to re-launch
> them)
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] quickstatements for missing editions

[Andrea Zanni]

For the "work" concept, Italian Wikisource decided to create a real and new
namespace, "Opera" (which means work).
It's the one page where we store the links to multiple editions of a
certain book we have.

It's not a disambiguation page in the sense that a disambiguation page
works with different books from different authors with the same title
e.g. "Poems"...

Aubrey

On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Thomas Pellissier Tanon <
tho...@pellissier-tanon.fr> wrote:

> An other point: here is a link to your 'Wikidata project" on the french
> Wikisource. We plan to build here to document what we do around
> Wikisource&Wikidata: https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Projet_
> Wikidata
>
> Sorry for the spam,
>
> Cheers,
>
> Thomas
>
> > Le 31 oct. 2017 à 16:14, Thomas Pellissier Tanon <
> tho...@pellissier-tanon.fr> a écrit :
> >
> > Hello Sam,
> >
> > Thank you for this nice feature!
> >
> > I have created a few months ago a prototype of Wikisource to Wikidata
> importation tool for the French Wikisource based on the schema.org
> annotation I have added to the main header template (I definitely think we
> should move from our custom microformat to this schema.org markup that
> could be much more structured). It's not yet ready but I plan to move it
> forward in the coming weeks. A beginning of frontend to add to your
> Wikidata common.js is here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/
> User:Tpt/ws2wd.js
> > We should probably find a way to merge the two projects.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> >> Le 31 oct. 2017 à 15:10, Nicolas VIGNERON 
> a écrit :
> >>
> >> 2017-10-31 13:16 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell :
> >> Sorry, I am much more of a Wikidatan than a Wikisourcerer! I was
> referring to items like this one
> >> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21125368
> >>
> >> No need to be sorry, that is actually a good question and this example
> is even better (I totally forgot this kind of case).
> >>
> >> For now, this is probably better to deal with it by hands (and I'm not
> sure what this tools can even do for this).
> >>
> >> Cdlt, ~nicolas
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[Wikisource-l] Endorsement of the strategy

[Andrea Zanni]

If it's ok for you, today I will endorse the new Wikimedia strategy[1]
on behalf of the Wikisource Community User Group.
I participated in the early drafting of the strategy (until May-June), but
later on unfortunately I didn't follow it closely.
I think the new strategy is open enough to be include a lot of what we do
in Wikisource, and I hope that this will lead to increased support from
Wikimedia Foundation and Chapters to our project.

Aubrey


[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Direction#Our_strategic_direction:_Service_and_Equity
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Re: [Wikisource-l] WikidataCon 2017

[Andrea Zanni]

Hello Nicolas,
will you "push" for a particular list of properties/book data model?

Unfortunately from the last Wikicite I did not have the time (and the will)
to restart the conversation on Wikidata about the book model: at Wikicite
Tpt, Sam and other had the chance to work a few hours on it, but I don't
know if some of the suggestions we made have been discussed directly on
Wikidata.

Aubrey

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Gerard Meijssen  wrote:

> Hoi,
> I am actively pushing the inclusion of books that are available from the
> Open Library. They will be by authors who are already known to Wikidata and
> the books will have either an ISBN or an identifier from for instance the
> Library of Congress.
>
> The point to this is that we do not know if readable books are available
> from Wikisource. Consequently Wikisource becomes of less relevance to the
> Open Library because they DO make it known and knowable what books are
> available for readers.
> Thanks,
>GerardM
>
> On 23 October 2017 at 10:30, Nicolas VIGNERON 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> For information, the WikidataCon is this week-end in Berlin. While there
>> is no talk nominatively around Wikisource, there is some intervention on
>> relation subjects (inventaire.io, WikiCite, German National Library,
>> FRBR, and so on).
>>
>> The event is sold out, but you can follow remotely some of the
>> presentation (link will be added here : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/
>> Wikidata:WikidataCon_2017/Program/Remote ).
>>
>> I'll be there and I'll be happy to talk about Wikisource, who else will
>> be there?
>>
>> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] The very first result of IA _abbyy.gz parsing & bot uploading into nsPage

[Andrea Zanni]

Thanks Alex!
I really hope this is a direction where other developers will follow: being
able to harness the full potential of structured data from OCR software is
absolutely crucial for Wikisource:
we could actually automatize *a lot* of the formatting work now done by
volunteers, and their time could be spent still formatting, proofreading
and validating, but with much power than before.
IMO, it changes a lot if a book is formatted ~50% by a machine, we could do
much more books in less time.
Go Alex!

Aubrey

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Asaf Bartov  wrote:

> That's really promising!
>
> Thank you for sharing this.
>
>A.
>
> On Oct 17, 2017 00:11, "Alex Brollo"  wrote:
>
>> Here:
>> Pagina:D'Ayala_-_Dizionario_militare_francese_italiano.djvu/46
>> 
>> and immediately previous and following pages both the text and some
>> formatting  from Internet Archive file bub_gb_lvzoCyRdzsoC_abbyy.gz
>> 
>>  (in previous pages only some templates have been added and a little bit
>> of regex manipulation has be done)
>>
>> Internet Archive _abbyy.gz files are gzipped, enormous xml files where
>> any detail of FineReader OCR output is exported - but, even if enormous and
>> terribly complex, they can be parsed and any detail (a little bit
>> painfully...)  can be used; presently, only bold, italic,  smallcaps and
>> paragraphs have been explored,  translated into wiki code by a prettily
>> simple python code.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Proposal

[Andrea Zanni]

This is an ooold issue: Wikisource does not have proper metadata.

I'm one of the people that Nemo Was mentioning: I'm a digital librarian
working for MLOL, and in the past 2 years, among other dozens of digital
libraries, I've managed to import Wikisource metadata on MLOL in 3
languages (English, French, Italian):
http://openmlol.it/Media/Search?Publisher=620

It has been a pain in the ass because I actually had to web scrape the
websites, from lists derived from categories. There is no easy way to have
metadata about Wikisource books, at the moment.

There are prototypes like WS-search, from Sam Wilson:
http://tools.wmflabs.org/ws-search/

And I'm sure that Tpt has some scripts to parse Wikisource (also, there was
OPDS).

The Wikisource community tried somewhat to solve the issue via Wikidata,
but discovered another black hole: modelling books on Wikidata it's very
tricky, and even after 2 Wikicite conferences (with Tpt and other
Wikisource people) I must confess I'm still confused...
For personal reasons I've not worked on the matter in the last months,
hopefully, will do in the near future.

I remember Vigneron was braver than me and recently tried to revive the
discussion:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Books

IF (and it's a big IF) we find a workable solution with Wikidata
(theoretical and practical) and
IF (and it's a big IF) we find some skilled Wikidata people to help us with
customised queries and bots to help with the transition (we need to import
Wikisource data into Wikidata, and we need to clear existing Wikidata items
following the standard model, and we need to maintain them in the future),
then it's doable and we have solved the metadata problem.

Unfortunately, I spent most of my adult and professional life complaining
about this (also, I really tried),
and nothing really changed... ;-)

Aubrey


On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Sorry, Sam, the other thing I meant to say was: that's a brilliant idea!
> :-) I'd love to help make it happen, if I can be of any use. :)
>
>
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2017, at 08:51 PM, Sam Wilson wrote:
>
> It's slightly tricky at the moment to extract data for validated works,
> for one because we don't have solid data linking Index pages to their
> corresponding main namespace (i.e. "work") pages. The Index pages have the
> status, but the mainspace pages are what we think of as the work. There's
> P1957 now, which is the connextion we need, but the data for that isn't
> complete.
>
> We've also got (incomplete) support for OPDS in the wsexport tool, which I
> think is probably a brilliant way forward for sharing the Wikisource
> catalogue with other systems. Once we have better structural support in
> Wikisource itself (e.g. structured data for querying validation status)
> then we'll much more efficiently and easily be able to produce all sorts of
> output for sharing.
>
>
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2017, at 08:37 PM, Sam Walton wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I work on the Wikipedia Library program, and wanted to jump in with a
> passing thought I'd had about Wikisource and TWL. We'll be building search
> and discovery tools into the library card platform (
> https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/) that's currently under ongoing
> development. They'll index all the usually-paywalled resources we have
> access to, but also open access content. As part of that process it's a
> desire of mine to index completed Wikisource works, though I haven't given
> it much thought beyond 'that would be nice'. This might be able to function
> as a kind of centralised search for all completed Wikisource works, if
> implemented.
>
> If you're interested, the relevant Phab task is
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T169875, where your thoughts are very
> welcome. It won't be worked on for a while and I can't guarantee that it
> will definitely happen, but if it's something the Wikisource community
> would benefit from, then that would absolutely increase the likelihood
> we'll work on it.
>
> Best,
> Sam
>
> On 12 October 2017 at 13:07, Federico Leva (Nemo) 
> wrote:
>
> Gerard Meijssen, 12/10/2017 15:04:
>
> Given the discussion about finished books on the Korean Wikisource, I this
> demonstrates that we really need to advertise the finished books to a
> reading public.
>
>
> In Italy, after many years of talk with local libraries, the Wikisource
> books are included in the catalogs of many libraries (also via a local
> ebook provider, MLOL, who hired some wikimedians to work on the "open
> collection", big kudos to them).
>
> Nemo
>
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[Wikisource-l] IA Upload queue

[Andrea Zanni]

Dear all,
someone could help understand if we have an issue here?
https://tools.wmflabs.org/ia-upload/commons/init

Some librarians uploaded books months ago,
but they were never processed.
Is the tool working, or it simply never signals when it fails?
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Endangered Archives Program of British Library

[Andrea Zanni]

sorry, but this and another mail are sent with weeks of delay.
I'm not really a good admin of this list, so if someone wants to step up,
I'll be happy.

Aubrey

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> There is a huge collection of rare books in different languages at the
> Endangered Archives Program website of British Library. (http://eap.bl.uk/
> )
>
> 1. The books are split into pages
> 2. Almost every pages have a scale/ruler beside the scanned page, so we
> need to crop each and every page. (attached)
>
> Can anyone please develop a tool (enhanced version of BUB) to process the
> books and transfer them to Commons?
>
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Budget for Wikisource

[Andrea Zanni]

Unfortunately, sometimes, and apparently it's not related to the Google
cover page (at least, I removed a page in a book and it doesn't have the
problem. Another book indeed is disaligned, without removing the cover).

Look this:
https://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Indice:Decio_Albini_-_La_spedizione_di_Sapri,_Tip._delle_Terme_diocleziane_di_G._Balbi,_Roma_1891.djvu

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> This is indeed a bug! I can't replicate it though. Does it happen for
> every book for you? Or only sometimes? Do you know what is different about
> the ones that fail? Is it related to removing (or not) the Google cover
> page?
>
> I can find time this weekend I think, to work on this.
>
>
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2017, at 03:23 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> Hello everyone, before talking again about this let me say that I think we
> have a "major" bug in the IA-upload:
> sometimes, the OCR is not aligned between the pages, meaning you have the
> right OCR but it's shown for the following page...
> Aubrey
>
> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:
>
>
> This is very cool news. :)
>
> One possibly not-too-onerous feature would be to permit upload of other
> file types other than DjVu (e.g. PDF). Or there's the whole topic of
> creating/finding Wikidata items for the books uploaded, and updating them
> with the IA identifier. That'd probably require the uploading user to
> specify a Wikidata ID though — which is what the {{book}} template on
> Commons should work from anyway, in my opinion (because it can't be done
> via a sitelink).
>
> I'm very happy to help with whatever I can!
>
> —sam
>
> On Wed, 10 May 2017, at 09:38 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> Dear all,
> Wikimedia Italia put in its budget 3000€ for Wikisource-related work.
> When we discussed this, months ago, we thought about paying a developer
> for
> the DJVU issue of the IA-Upload tool,
> which then has been resolved by our beloved Sam Wilson.
>
> The tool is still not perfect (I often get errors), so maybe some
> development is still needed, but I'd ask you (especially technically
> skilled people like Tpt, Sam, Philippe, etc.) if you think there is some
> low-hanging fruit that could be reached with that kind of budget.
> Of course, we will be looking for developers, so if you want to propose
> yourself for something, please do! ;-)
>
> Aubrey
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Budget for Wikisource

[Andrea Zanni]

Hello everyone, before talking again about this let me say that I think we
have a "major" bug in the IA-upload:
sometimes, the OCR is not aligned between the pages, meaning you have the
right OCR but it's shown for the following page...

Aubrey

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> This is very cool news. :)
>
> One possibly not-too-onerous feature would be to permit upload of other
> file types other than DjVu (e.g. PDF). Or there's the whole topic of
> creating/finding Wikidata items for the books uploaded, and updating them
> with the IA identifier. That'd probably require the uploading user to
> specify a Wikidata ID though — which is what the {{book}} template on
> Commons should work from anyway, in my opinion (because it can't be done
> via a sitelink).
>
> I'm very happy to help with whatever I can!
>
> —sam
>
> On Wed, 10 May 2017, at 09:38 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> Dear all,
> Wikimedia Italia put in its budget 3000€ for Wikisource-related work.
> When we discussed this, months ago, we thought about paying a developer
> for
> the DJVU issue of the IA-Upload tool,
> which then has been resolved by our beloved Sam Wilson.
>
> The tool is still not perfect (I often get errors), so maybe some
> development is still needed, but I'd ask you (especially technically
> skilled people like Tpt, Sam, Philippe, etc.) if you think there is some
> low-hanging fruit that could be reached with that kind of budget.
> Of course, we will be looking for developers, so if you want to propose
> yourself for something, please do! ;-)
>
> Aubrey
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] [Wikimedia-l] Which templates should be global?

[Andrea Zanni]

This is the query to find those template items (on Wikidata) that have many
sitelinks:
https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT %3Ftemplate %3FtemplateLabel
%3Fsitelinks WITH {%0A SELECT %3Ftemplate (COUNT(%3Farticle) AS
%3Fsitelinks) WHERE {%0A %3Ftemplate wdt%3AP31%2Fwdt%3AP279*
wd%3AQ11266439.%0A %3Farticle schema%3Aabout %3Ftemplate%3B%0A
schema%3AisPartOf%2Fwikibase%3AwikiGroup "wikisource".%0A }%0A GROUP BY
%3Ftemplate%0A ORDER BY DESC(%3Fsitelinks)%0A LIMIT 100%0A} AS
%25commonTemplates WHERE {%0A INCLUDE %25commonTemplates.%0A SERVICE
wikibase%3Alabel { bd%3AserviceParam wikibase%3Alanguage
"[AUTO_LANGUAGE]%2Cen". }%0A}%0AORDER BY DESC(%3Fsitelinks)

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Andrea Zanni 
wrote:

> Forwarding this to wikisource-l, as with Ernest we discussed many times
> about
> "globalising" some templates or features.
>
> Aubrey
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
> Hallo,
>
> TLDR: If you are an experienced editor on any Wikimedia project in any
> language, please add your ideas here:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Which_templates_should_be_global
>
> In more detail:
>
> Continuing some recent discussions from Phabricator[1], Wikimedia
> Hackathon, and Wikimedia Developers Summit, I'd like to ask the wider
> community of editors in all projects:
>
> Which templates could be useful for all Wikimedia projects, or at least for
> _many_ projects?
>
> A lot of templates are replicated manually, and it's a problem that is
> well-known to all experienced editors. If there was a technology that
> allows templates to be more conveniently globally managed, which templates
> would you adapt to this technology first?
>
> I started a list at
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Which_templates_should_be_global . Please
> continue it! I'm very interested to hear from all projects and languages,
> not only the big Wikipedias, so spread the word.
>
> Thanks!
>
> [1] For example https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T159334
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Wikisource-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Which templates should be global?

[Andrea Zanni]

Forwarding this to wikisource-l, as with Ernest we discussed many times
about
"globalising" some templates or features.

Aubrey



---

Hallo,

TLDR: If you are an experienced editor on any Wikimedia project in any
language, please add your ideas here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Which_templates_should_be_global

In more detail:

Continuing some recent discussions from Phabricator[1], Wikimedia
Hackathon, and Wikimedia Developers Summit, I'd like to ask the wider
community of editors in all projects:

Which templates could be useful for all Wikimedia projects, or at least for
_many_ projects?

A lot of templates are replicated manually, and it's a problem that is
well-known to all experienced editors. If there was a technology that
allows templates to be more conveniently globally managed, which templates
would you adapt to this technology first?

I started a list at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Which_templates_should_be_global . Please
continue it! I'm very interested to hear from all projects and languages,
not only the big Wikipedias, so spread the word.

Thanks!

[1] For example https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T159334

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I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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Re: [Wikisource-l] identifying indexes with less than 50 pages

[Andrea Zanni]

Not sure by an automatic procedure,
but you can look at them here:
https://ta.wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%AE%9A%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%B1%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%81:IndexPages

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 8:56 AM, balaji  wrote:

> Hi,
>  In Tamil wikisource we wanted to identify small books for proofread.
> is there any way to identify indexes with less than 50 pages or so in
> wikisource?
>
> Thanks & regards,
> J. Balaji.
>
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[Wikisource-l] Wikimedia Strategy, cycle 2

[Andrea Zanni]

Dear all,
cycle 2 for strategy is started.

The Wikimedia movement strategy core team and working groups have completed
reviewing the more than 1800 thematic statements we received from the first
discussion. They have identified 5 themes that were consistent across all
the conversations - each with their own set of sub-themes. These are not
the final themes, just an initial working draft of the core concepts.

This round of discussions will take place between now and June 12th. You
can discuss as many as you like; we ask you to participate in the ones that
are most (or least) important to you.

I think that, as an international community, it's important for us to give
our opinion on the themes proposed. They are:

* Healthy, Inclusive Communities
* The Augmented Age
* A Truly Global Movement
* The Most Respected Source of Knowledge
* Engaging in the Knowledge Ecosystem

I'm not sure if you want to discuss it here, on the mailing list, or you
prefer to set up pages on your local wikisource, or both. You can also go
and discuss directly on Meta¹.

I just set up the pages on it.source, and will (desperately) try to revamp
the discussion there.
If you need a hand in understanding what to do, please ask: the process is
complicated for everyone ;-)

Aubrey

¹
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Strategy/Wikimedia
movement/2017/Cycle 2/Healthy, Inclusive Communities

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Strategy/Wikimedia
movement/2017/Cycle 2/The Augmented Age

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Strategy/Wikimedia
movement/2017/Cycle 2/A Truly Global Movement

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Strategy/Wikimedia
movement/2017/Cycle 2/The Most Respected Source of Knowledge

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Strategy/Wikimedia
movement/2017/Cycle 2/Engaging in the Knowledge Ecosystem
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Budget for Wikisource

[Andrea Zanni]

It may be.
Not sure how Sam and Tpt solved that issue.

Aubrey

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 6:01 PM, Philippe Elie  wrote:

> On Wed, 10 May 2017 at 18:00 +0200, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> > >
> > > There isn't also a trend when converting from jp2 --> pdf to produce
> > > too big djvu?
> > >
> >
> > May you please explain it better? I don't understand.
> >
>
> Aren't djvu produced often too big?
>
> --
> Phe
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Budget for Wikisource

[Andrea Zanni]

>
> There isn't also a trend when converting from jp2 --> pdf to produce
> too big djvu?
>

May you please explain it better? I don't understand.


>
> --
> Phe
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Budget for Wikisource

[Andrea Zanni]

You can check in the queue that a lot of processes just freeze:
es. https://tools.wmflabs.org/ia-upload/log/bullettinodella04italgoog

Also, there is an issue with HTML tags: sometime they are present in the IA
description,
and this means they are copied also in the Commons Book template during the
workflow.
When that happens, you get an error before uploading the book on Commons.

Aubrey


On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Philippe Elie  wrote:

> On Wed, 10 May 2017 at 15:38 +0200, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> > Dear all,
> > Wikimedia Italia put in its budget 3000€ for Wikisource-related work.
> > When we discussed this, months ago, we thought about paying a developer
> for
> > the DJVU issue of the IA-Upload tool,
> > which then has been resolved by our beloved Sam Wilson.
> >
> > The tool is still not perfect (I often get errors), so maybe some
> > development is still needed, but I'd ask you (especially technically
> > skilled people like Tpt, Sam, Philippe, etc.) if you think there is some
> > low-hanging fruit that could be reached with that kind of budget.
> > Of course, we will be looking for developers, so if you want to propose
> > yourself for something, please do! ;-)
>
> It's possible Tpt, me and perhaps Sam will be interested but the scope
> of the work is yet unclear. Have you some recent example of errors?
>
> --
> Phe
>
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[Wikisource-l] Budget for Wikisource

[Andrea Zanni]

Dear all,
Wikimedia Italia put in its budget 3000€ for Wikisource-related work.
When we discussed this, months ago, we thought about paying a developer for
the DJVU issue of the IA-Upload tool,
which then has been resolved by our beloved Sam Wilson.

The tool is still not perfect (I often get errors), so maybe some
development is still needed, but I'd ask you (especially technically
skilled people like Tpt, Sam, Philippe, etc.) if you think there is some
low-hanging fruit that could be reached with that kind of budget.
Of course, we will be looking for developers, so if you want to propose
yourself for something, please do! ;-)

Aubrey
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Scanner for you?

[Andrea Zanni]

Wikimedia italia is interested :-)

Il 07/mag/2017 20:18, "Carles Paredes Lanau"  ha
scritto:

> I'm writing to this list because we have got an scanner to share with any
> European chapter interested in working with institutions or for internal
> use of Wikimedia communities.
>
> Amical Wikimedia purchased and assembled The Archivist, DIY Book Scanner (
> http://diybookscanner.org/archivist/) in March 2015. We wanted to work
> with several partners from our GLAM network, to help them to free resources
> and scan documents previously not avaliable for general public. We began a
> pilot project in Maritime Museum of Barcelona, a museum with whom we had
> already worked in the past and with the proper mindset. We had a member
> from Amical working there as professional librarian, too, so it was easier
> to implement the project. We provided a volunteer to assist the museum in
> tech issues. You can check the books scanned in the following link:
> https://archive.org/details/bibliotecammb586. It was an interesting
> project with relevant results. However, we decided to discontinue it
> because it needed a close assistant we could no longer offer and people
> from the museum weren't comfortable working with it, since it was very
> different from the scanners they used in the past.
>
> That's why we want to offer the scanner to other Wikisource communities or
> to some chapter with volunteers wanting to continue digitalisation
> projects. If there's anyone interested in having a The Archivist model,
> please answer back this mail so we can discuss how to handle it.
>
> Thanks in advanced.
>
> Carles Paredes (KRLS)
> Amical Wikimedia
>
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Phetools down?

[Andrea Zanni]

Ok,
so it will be fixed eventually?
Meaning that in a few days we get proper numbers in the db?

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Philippe Elie  wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 at 11:59 +0200, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> > Thanks Phe for looking in to it.
> > What I don't understand is if we need to do something about it:
> > it lost also todays stats
> > https://tools.wmflabs.org/phetools/statistics.php?diff=1
> >
>
> Nothing we can do, it's in the hand of toollabs admins, here the lag, we
> are
> on s3 db: https://tools.wmflabs.org/replag/
>
> --
> Phe
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Phetools down?

[Andrea Zanni]

Thanks Phe for looking in to it.
What I don't understand is if we need to do something about it:
it lost also todays stats
https://tools.wmflabs.org/phetools/statistics.php?diff=1


On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 1:17 PM, Philippe Elie  wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 at 11:18 +0200, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> > :-(
> > https://tools.wmflabs.org/phetools/statistics.php?diff=1
>
> Some sort of maintenance in tool-labs, replication of db are stopped
> so there is no difference. I don't remember to see a notice about that
> maintenance, perhaps I missed it.
>
> --
> Phe
>
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[Wikisource-l] Phetools down?

[Andrea Zanni]

:-(
https://tools.wmflabs.org/phetools/statistics.php?diff=1

Aubrey
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikimedia Strategy

[Andrea Zanni]

I tried to put some of the things we said on this page on Meta:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Sources/Wikisource_Mailing_list

Feel free to discuss them.
Basically, I summarised what Asaf, David and I said.

There will another occasion for discussion, so feel free, again, to jump in
at any time.

Aubrey

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Andrea Zanni 
wrote:

> I would like to bring back the discussion to the Wikimedia Strategy (of
> course, you're free to fork this thread in several others: more
> discussions, the better ;-)
>
> Last week I participated in the Wikimedia Conference,
> this year focused on Strategy.
>
> We had several sessions in which 200 people from all over the movement
> brainstormed and discussed freely about one single question: where do we
> want to be, in 2030.
> Personally, I advocated and pushed for a more "olistic" approach: not just
> an encyclopedia, but a platform for accessing and creating knowledge, in
> whatever form.
> There is somewhat a general consensus on that, but as a Wikisource
> community I think it's *fundamental* to give our input, and push towards a
> Wikimedia that is *beyond Wikipedia*.
>
> Thus, I encourage you again to write here your dream about Wikimedia in
> 2030: what would you like to see? where would you like to be? In the
> Wikisource conference, we spoke a lot about language equity, community,
> tech. I'm sure you're full of ideas and vision.
>
> There are *no wrong answers*, and we still have few days to give our input
> before the first stage of this long process ends.
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:03 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
> psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:
>
>> That's not goals for the end of fiscal years, but driving target, just
>> like having a list of articles every Wikipedia should have. :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 11/04/2017 à 16:36, ankry.wiki a écrit :
>>
>>> W dniu 2017-04-11 14:06:02 użytkownik Nicolas VIGNERON <
>>> vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> napisał:
>>>
>>> 2017-04-11 13:17 GMT+02:00 David Starner :
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 2:46 AM ankry.wiki  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I doubt we can find 1000 works with PD translations into each
>>>>>> Wikisource
>>>>>> language, including Latin and Sanskrit.
>>>>>> It would be hard to find 10. Mostly ancient.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unlike Wikipedia, we present content that has already been created by
>>>>>> somebody.
>>>>>> We are not creating that ourselves.
>>>>>> (except few ws accepting Wikisource translations)
>>>>>>
>>>>> How many Wikisources don't accept user translations? I'd guess that at
>>>>> least
>>>>> half of them do.
>>>>>
>>>> Good question. We should store clearly this information somewhere (on
>>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q19335648 and local pages ?).
>>>>
>>> We do:
>>>   https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Subdomain_coordination
>>> At least 4 do not allow translations.
>>>
>>> It may not be universal, but you'll never know how many of those works
>>>>>
>>>> actually have PD translations until you actually search for them. A
>>>> list can
>>>> at least provoke the search.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly.
>>>> I can easily find to 10 works in most languages of the planet (The
>>>> Bible, the
>>>> Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Shakespeare, Conan Doyle,
>>>> Dickens, Stevenson,
>>>> Verne, some important international treaty and publication from the
>>>> Vatican ;
>>>> it's already a lot more than 10 works available in more than 100
>>>> languages)
>>>>
>>> most != all   (Most Wikisource should have... != All Wikisource should
>>> have...)
>>>
>>> Speaking of the UN, the UNESCO created the Index Translationum
>>>> ( http://www.unesco.org/xtrans/bsstatlist.aspx ) that can be helpful
>>>> here.
>>>> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>>>> PS: Latin or Sanskrit are not the thoughest challenges, try Breton or
>>>> Venetian
>>>> :P (by the way, the UDHR exist in these 4 languages and 500 more ;)
>>>> only the
>>>> Bible has more translations).
>>>>
>>> I have intentionally chosen dead languages to point out that "all"
&g

Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikimedia Strategy

[Andrea Zanni]

I would like to bring back the discussion to the Wikimedia Strategy (of
course, you're free to fork this thread in several others: more
discussions, the better ;-)

Last week I participated in the Wikimedia Conference,
this year focused on Strategy.

We had several sessions in which 200 people from all over the movement
brainstormed and discussed freely about one single question: where do we
want to be, in 2030.
Personally, I advocated and pushed for a more "olistic" approach: not just
an encyclopedia, but a platform for accessing and creating knowledge, in
whatever form.
There is somewhat a general consensus on that, but as a Wikisource
community I think it's *fundamental* to give our input, and push towards a
Wikimedia that is *beyond Wikipedia*.

Thus, I encourage you again to write here your dream about Wikimedia in
2030: what would you like to see? where would you like to be? In the
Wikisource conference, we spoke a lot about language equity, community,
tech. I'm sure you're full of ideas and vision.

There are *no wrong answers*, and we still have few days to give our input
before the first stage of this long process ends.

Thanks!

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:03 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:

> That's not goals for the end of fiscal years, but driving target, just
> like having a list of articles every Wikipedia should have. :)
>
>
>
> Le 11/04/2017 à 16:36, ankry.wiki a écrit :
>
>> W dniu 2017-04-11 14:06:02 użytkownik Nicolas VIGNERON <
>> vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> napisał:
>>
>> 2017-04-11 13:17 GMT+02:00 David Starner :
>>>
 On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 2:46 AM ankry.wiki  wrote:

> I doubt we can find 1000 works with PD translations into each
> Wikisource
> language, including Latin and Sanskrit.
> It would be hard to find 10. Mostly ancient.
>
> Unlike Wikipedia, we present content that has already been created by
> somebody.
> We are not creating that ourselves.
> (except few ws accepting Wikisource translations)
>
 How many Wikisources don't accept user translations? I'd guess that at
 least
 half of them do.

>>> Good question. We should store clearly this information somewhere (on
>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q19335648 and local pages ?).
>>>
>> We do:
>>   https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Subdomain_coordination
>> At least 4 do not allow translations.
>>
>> It may not be universal, but you'll never know how many of those works

>>> actually have PD translations until you actually search for them. A list
>>> can
>>> at least provoke the search.
>>>
>>> Exactly.
>>> I can easily find to 10 works in most languages of the planet (The
>>> Bible, the
>>> Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Shakespeare, Conan Doyle,
>>> Dickens, Stevenson,
>>> Verne, some important international treaty and publication from the
>>> Vatican ;
>>> it's already a lot more than 10 works available in more than 100
>>> languages)
>>>
>> most != all   (Most Wikisource should have... != All Wikisource should
>> have...)
>>
>> Speaking of the UN, the UNESCO created the Index Translationum
>>> ( http://www.unesco.org/xtrans/bsstatlist.aspx ) that can be helpful
>>> here.
>>> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>>> PS: Latin or Sanskrit are not the thoughest challenges, try Breton or
>>> Venetian
>>> :P (by the way, the UDHR exist in these 4 languages and 500 more ;) only
>>> the
>>> Bible has more translations).
>>>
>> I have intentionally chosen dead languages to point out that "all" should
>> not
>> be the goal.
>>
>> Concerning, UDHR, we have unclear copyright status even for Polish
>> translation:
>> it is not considered to be an official legal act, no "official"
>> translation;
>> translated by a Foundation which say nothing about copyright. And even,
>> translations of foreign legal acts are considered copyrighted in Poland
>> (according to opinions we have).
>>
>> Translation copyright problems may exist for many translations of Conan
>> Doyle,
>> Dickens, Stevenson or Verne.
>> I also doubt we will get a Wikisource translation of "The Posthumous
>> Papers of the
>> Pickwick Club" into eg. Lithuanian (while ltwikisource seems to be like
>> a single-user project - at least recently).
>>
>> We can talk about 1000-100 "base" works in, maybe, 5-10 most active
>> Wikisources.
>>
>> Ankry
>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikimedia Strategy

[Andrea Zanni]

In it.source we made a similar Canon:
https://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Canone_delle_opere_della_letteratura_italiana

Ideally, we should have an item (a "work" item, so basically the one with a
Wikipedia article) on Wikidata for each one.
Than we can count how many Wikipedias have an article on it. Basically it's
Tpt's idea using wikidata and sitelinks.

Aubrey


On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:

> You can always start with the lists per country (if they exist). So for
> example I made an article about the first 500 of such a "1000 most
> important works of literature" list compiled for the Netherlands here:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_of_Dutch_Literature
>
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Thomas PT  wrote:
>
>> A maybe simpler metric: the top 1000 Wikipedia articles about works per
>> page view.
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>> > Le 11 avr. 2017 à 09:42, mathieu stumpf guntz <
>> psychosl...@culture-libre.org> a écrit :
>> >
>> > Hi Nemo,
>> >
>> > We may establish a list a the "1000 works that every Wikisource should
>> have" (with translation possibly needed).
>> >
>> > What metric could we use to define such a list? Maybe reference
>> frequency, but it requires statistics whose availability is unknown to me.
>> >
>> > Statistically,
>> > psychoslave
>> >
>> > Le 29/03/2017 à 08:30, Federico Leva (Nemo) a écrit :
>> >> One issue sometimes raised about Wikisource is how we know that we're
>> working on the "right" books. Internet Archive is planning to textbooks
>> starting from those which are most frequently assigned in USA schools:
>> >> http://blog.archive.org/2017/03/29/books-donated-for-macarth
>> ur-foundation-100change-challenge-from-bookmooch-users/
>> >>
>> >> I was surprised to learn a project like OpenSyllabus exists and works,
>> I emailed them to ask what it would take to do the same for other
>> languages/geographies.
>> >>
>> >> Nemo
>> >>
>> >> ___
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>> >> Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
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>>
>>
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[Wikisource-l] Book-based pageviews statistics

[Andrea Zanni]

Dear all,
I returned yesterday from the annual Wikimedia Conference in Berlin.
I've quite a few things to tell you about the conf and the strategy, but
let me start with this: thanks to Leon Ziemba and Sam Walton,
we have a nice way to show book-based statistics, meaning the aggregated
pageviews for an entire book (main namespace + all the subpages).

Here's the important diff:
https://it.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3AHistlegend&type=revision&diff=1878676&oldid=1699217

So, as an admin, go into your Mediawiki:Histlegend page, and add this code

{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACENUMBER}}|0|'''·''' [
https://tools.wmflabs.org/massviews?project={{SERVERNAME}}&source=subpages&target=http:{{urlencode:{{fullurl:{{ROOTPAGENAME}}
book pageviews counter]}}

Then, go into the History of a random ns0 book: you should see a new link
"book pageviews counter" (translate as you wish).

I hope this tool is useful!

Aubrey
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Re: [Wikisource-l] CREDIT showcase

[Andrea Zanni]

I'll ask kaldari about Credit, flying to Berlin right now.

I've long desired to make a presentation specifically for WMF, to show them
what we do, how much we rely on our own tools, and how low big, ripe fruits
hang. How many issues we have.

In an hour or less we could really give them a big picture.

Il 30/mar/2017 09:17, "Sam Wilson"  ha scritto:

> That's a great idea! It needn't be too hard: if a bunch of us had a
> current project to talk about for five minutes apiece, and we sent an
> invite to wikimedia-l or somewhere big, it could be done don't you think?
> Or maybe we just advertise our monthly hangouts more widely?
>
> There's certainly  a lack of awareness about Wikisource within the WMF, I
> think.
>
> —Sam
>
>
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2017, at 03:09 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> Not sure if I can on Wednesday, but I'll think about it.
> Also, a whole session about Wikisource would be very informative, I think,
> for a lot of people in WMF and inside our movement.
> But it's much more difficult to do it, and get a whole session for you.
> Aubrey
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:
>
>
> Good point, hmm. :) But yeah, I think it's worth it even if it's just so
> people can see how much more work needs to be done. Unless it fails...
> although, come to think of it: the demonstration could just end with "see,
> it's in the queue, and it'll be processed later!" ;-) Or is that cheating?
>
> It's just meant to be a showcase of whatever's going on, not necessarily
> finished polished things. (I think; I've only ever watched one on youtube.)
>
> If you don't feel like it, I think Kaldari will do it. But you'd be great!
> :-)
>
>
> —Sam
>
>
>
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2017, at 02:58 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> I can think about it,
> but we should really "check" that IA Upload tool is failproof:
> last time I used it it failed quite a few times.
> Not a big deal, but not in a showcase ;-)
> On the other hand, this is maybe what we should show them:
> how much the Wikisource community relies on volunteer-developed
> infrastructure (IA-upload, Proofread extension, Phe graphs)...
> Or it's a showcase of "the best" things in our community?
> Aubrey
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 6:20 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Is anyone interested in presenting at the next CREDIT showcase (next
> week) https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/CREDIT_showcase and demonstrating
> the IA Upload tool? It's a good opportunity to get some more visibility
> for Wikisource tools.
>
> I'd do it, but it happens at 2 am my time.
>
> If you're keen, put your name down at
> https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/CREDIT
>
> Thanks!
>
> —Sam
>
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>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] CREDIT showcase

[Andrea Zanni]

Not sure if I can on Wednesday, but I'll think about it.
Also, a whole session about Wikisource would be very informative, I think,
for a lot of people in WMF and inside our movement.
But it's much more difficult to do it, and get a whole session for you.

Aubrey

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Good point, hmm. :) But yeah, I think it's worth it even if it's just so
> people can see how much more work needs to be done. Unless it fails...
> although, come to think of it: the demonstration could just end with "see,
> it's in the queue, and it'll be processed later!" ;-) Or is that cheating?
>
> It's just meant to be a showcase of whatever's going on, not necessarily
> finished polished things. (I think; I've only ever watched one on youtube.)
>
> If you don't feel like it, I think Kaldari will do it. But you'd be great!
> :-)
>
> —Sam
>
>
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2017, at 02:58 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> I can think about it,
> but we should really "check" that IA Upload tool is failproof:
> last time I used it it failed quite a few times.
> Not a big deal, but not in a showcase ;-)
> On the other hand, this is maybe what we should show them:
> how much the Wikisource community relies on volunteer-developed
> infrastructure (IA-upload, Proofread extension, Phe graphs)...
> Or it's a showcase of "the best" things in our community?
> Aubrey
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 6:20 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Is anyone interested in presenting at the next CREDIT showcase (next
> week) https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/CREDIT_showcase and demonstrating
> the IA Upload tool? It's a good opportunity to get some more visibility
> for Wikisource tools.
>
> I'd do it, but it happens at 2 am my time.
>
> If you're keen, put your name down at
> https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/CREDIT
>
> Thanks!
>
> —Sam
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] CREDIT showcase

[Andrea Zanni]

I can think about it,
but we should really "check" that IA Upload tool is failproof:
last time I used it it failed quite a few times.
Not a big deal, but not in a showcase ;-)

On the other hand, this is maybe what we should show them:
how much the Wikisource community relies on volunteer-developed
infrastructure (IA-upload, Proofread extension, Phe graphs)...
Or it's a showcase of "the best" things in our community?

Aubrey


On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 6:20 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Is anyone interested in presenting at the next CREDIT showcase (next
> week) https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/CREDIT_showcase and demonstrating
> the IA Upload tool? It's a good opportunity to get some more visibility
> for Wikisource tools.
>
> I'd do it, but it happens at 2 am my time.
>
> If you're keen, put your name down at
> https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/CREDIT
>
> Thanks!
>
> —Sam
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikimedia Strategy

[Andrea Zanni]

Another thing I would be very happy to see in the future is a greater,
systematic collaboration with Internet Archive.
I'm convinced that it's a vital part of our ecosystem, because it allow
easily a lot of things that should be done by skilled users (like create a
PDF/djvu, OCR, etc).
When a I explain Wikisource I always explain Internet Archive first,
teaching people to upload there their files, then into Commons/Wikisource
via the "IA Upload" tool.

This is why the Italian Wikisource community created a dedicated collection
on IA:
https://archive.org/details/itwikisource

To create a collection, you need at least 50 items, and then you can ask
Internet Archive to give you permission.
Right now, Alex brollo is writing some scripts that will allow a better
maintenance of the metadata,
we'll share them when they are ready.

If you create a collection, please tell us: we could even have a greater
"Wikisource" collection, that contains all the linguistic collections.

Maybe this is a bit OT for the strategy, but I think it suggests way to
improve the collaboration between us and IA.

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Andrea Zanni 
wrote:

> Anyone else?
> It would be very good to know the gist of the discussions/opinions you are
> having in your local Wikisource.
>
> The Italian Wikisource for example is summing this up here:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/Sources/Italian_Wikisource_Village_pump
>
> For us, there is a bit of a disagreement about the idea and goal of being
> a "library", and being a "typography": being a library is more focused on
> access, on services build upon texts (text analysis, text mining,
> searching, hyperlinking, annotation) and the transcribing/proofreading
> part, which needs a whole different level of tools and interface.
>
> Maybe you are having a similar discussion?
> Do you possibly see a "fork", in the future, of Wikisource in 2 different
> projects, or at least 2 different interfaces?
>
> Aubrey
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:54 PM, Andrea Zanni 
> wrote:
>
>> @Micru: of course, as you say, machine learning is the elephant in the
>> room.
>> I dream of something we could call "Wikisource as a platform":
>> meaning an environment with structured data and workflows where you can
>> have APIs
>> and tools for interact with humans and machines, both for input and for
>> output.
>> We could have OCR software that learn from our human proofreaders, and
>> ideally we could
>> even have OCRs tailored for determined centuries or types of books.
>> We could ue machine learning to look for citations within books (for
>> example other cited books or authors).¹
>> This could improve heavily our library:
>> on Internet Archive or Google Books we have millions of books that just
>> wait for us to make them
>> readable and accessible, and, of course, connect them to Wikipedia, to
>> Wikidata, to other Wikisource books.
>>
>> IMHO, this is obviously important for GLAMs:
>> we could be much more usable and easy for libraries, archives and museums
>> that want to upload into Wikisource their texts and books, and make them
>> part of our hyperlinked library.
>> They could import easily on Wikisource, and could export as well.
>> Now, this is impossible or at least very very difficult.²
>>
>> I'm not sure that all these features could go in just one project, but
>> it's probably worth trying.
>>
>> Aubrey
>>
>> [1] I remember I explored the idea with Amir, but I couldn't follow up.
>> [2] To get all the data I needed from Wikisource books, I had to
>> basically scrape the website.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Pine W  wrote:
>>
>>> Glad to see this discussion. Pinging Alex Stinson for this discussion in
>>> case he has any insights to add from a GLAM perspective.
>>>
>>> Pine
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:48 AM, David Cuenca Tudela 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Asaf Bartov 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> what might be the significant role our unique advantage might play in
>>>>> 15 years?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are some circumstantial aspects that might be relevant for
>>>> Wikisource:
>>>> - With the emergence of machine learning, do volunteers really need to
>>>> spend so much time formatting? Or will we able to use our data to train a
>>>> system to do some pre-formatting for us?
>>>> - With the existing

Re: [Wikisource-l] March hangout

[Andrea Zanni]

I can't participate at that hour because
it's 13:00 here, and, as you probably guess,
Italians, on a Sunday, at 13:00,
have lunch! ;-)

Aubrey

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 1:10 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Some notes from the hangout are now on:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisource_Community_
> User_Group/March_2017_Hangout
> Tpt and Yann, can you add anything I've missed? :)
>
> Next meeting scheduled for the same time Sunday April 30th, but if anyone
> has a better time suggestion then feel free to raise it (it'd be nice to
> include other timezones who maybe miss out because they don't want to get
> up too early on a Sunday morning).
>
> —sam
>
> On Sat, 25 Mar 2017, at 12:08 AM, Nicolas VIGNERON wrote:
>
> 2017-03-24 17:01 GMT+01:00 Yann Forget :
>
> Hi, Is there a log or a summary of last meeting?
>
> Regards,
>
> Yann
>
>
> Here it is : https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisource_Community_
> User_Group/February_2017_Hangout
> Cdlt, ~nicolas
> PS: I'll try to be there but not 100% sure.
> *___*
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>
>
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikimedia Strategy

[Andrea Zanni]

Anyone else?
It would be very good to know the gist of the discussions/opinions you are
having in your local Wikisource.

The Italian Wikisource for example is summing this up here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Sources/Italian_Wikisource_Village_pump

For us, there is a bit of a disagreement about the idea and goal of being a
"library", and being a "typography": being a library is more focused on
access, on services build upon texts (text analysis, text mining,
searching, hyperlinking, annotation) and the transcribing/proofreading
part, which needs a whole different level of tools and interface.

Maybe you are having a similar discussion?
Do you possibly see a "fork", in the future, of Wikisource in 2 different
projects, or at least 2 different interfaces?

Aubrey

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:54 PM, Andrea Zanni 
wrote:

> @Micru: of course, as you say, machine learning is the elephant in the
> room.
> I dream of something we could call "Wikisource as a platform":
> meaning an environment with structured data and workflows where you can
> have APIs
> and tools for interact with humans and machines, both for input and for
> output.
> We could have OCR software that learn from our human proofreaders, and
> ideally we could
> even have OCRs tailored for determined centuries or types of books.
> We could ue machine learning to look for citations within books (for
> example other cited books or authors).¹
> This could improve heavily our library:
> on Internet Archive or Google Books we have millions of books that just
> wait for us to make them
> readable and accessible, and, of course, connect them to Wikipedia, to
> Wikidata, to other Wikisource books.
>
> IMHO, this is obviously important for GLAMs:
> we could be much more usable and easy for libraries, archives and museums
> that want to upload into Wikisource their texts and books, and make them
> part of our hyperlinked library.
> They could import easily on Wikisource, and could export as well.
> Now, this is impossible or at least very very difficult.²
>
> I'm not sure that all these features could go in just one project, but
> it's probably worth trying.
>
> Aubrey
>
> [1] I remember I explored the idea with Amir, but I couldn't follow up.
> [2] To get all the data I needed from Wikisource books, I had to basically
> scrape the website.
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Pine W  wrote:
>
>> Glad to see this discussion. Pinging Alex Stinson for this discussion in
>> case he has any insights to add from a GLAM perspective.
>>
>> Pine
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:48 AM, David Cuenca Tudela 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Asaf Bartov 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> what might be the significant role our unique advantage might play in
>>>> 15 years?
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are some circumstantial aspects that might be relevant for
>>> Wikisource:
>>> - With the emergence of machine learning, do volunteers really need to
>>> spend so much time formatting? Or will we able to use our data to train a
>>> system to do some pre-formatting for us?
>>> - With the existing flood of data, can we consider ws as a relevancy
>>> setter? If a document has been transcribed/imported into wikisource, is
>>> that enough to make the document relevant?
>>> - Considering that not all libraries might have the resources to develop
>>> their own platform, can Wikisource be used as a neutral platform by
>>> external agents as a complement to their own infrastructure?
>>>
>>> Regarding the 15 years time frame, it might be a good exercise to
>>> examine different scenarios. Yes, one could be to think big, to expect
>>> growth and a favorable environment. But what about the opposite? What if
>>> there are *less* people able to contribute?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Micru
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
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[Wikisource-l] Fwd: [WMCON17] Reminder: Submission Deadline for Wikimania 2017 on March 30

[Andrea Zanni]

If someone is interested in making a proposal for Wikimania 2017, in
Montréal,
this is the *last* week!

It would be good to have Wikisource talks, given the extraordinary
work from Ernst and other Canadian Wikisourcerers.
Be bold!

Aubrey

---


A reminder that the deadline for submissions for Wikimania '17 is in one
week - March 30! Can everyone please forward this to your other affiliate
channels and spread the word throughout the community.

We are looking forward to your participation and help in promoting
Wikimania '17 in Montréal this year!

On behalf of the Program Committee

Ellie Young
WMF Events Manager

The Wikimania Montréal Call for Submissions can be found in French here:
https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/fr

and in English here:
https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/en


-
Whether you are a community member of one of the Wikimedia projects (such
as Wikipedia, Wikibooks, Wikidata, Wikisource, Wikinews, Wikimedia Commons,
Wiktionary, MediaWiki or others), or a fellow open content creator or
consumer, we welcome your proposal for a session at Wikimania 2017.

*Important dates*


Deadline for submitting presentation (lecture, panel, roundtable and
workshop) submissions: March 30, 2017
Deadline for submitting lightning talks, poster, and birds of a feather
submissions: May 15, 2017
Notification of acceptance for presentations: April 20, 2017
Notification of acceptance for lightning talks, poster and birds of a
feather submissions: June 10, 2017

*Submission types & how to submit:*
https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/en


*Any questions?* Please contact the Programme Committee at
wikimania-program at wikimedia.org

---

Que vous soyez un membre de la communauté de l’un des projets Wikimédia
(tels que Wikipédia, Wikibooks, Wikidata, Wikisource, Wikinews, Wikimedia
Commons, Wiktionnaire, MediaWiki ou autres), un créateur de contenu libre
ou un consommateur, nous recevrons avec plaisir votre proposition pour une
session lors de Wikimania 2017.

*dates importantes*

Date limite de soumission des présentations (conférence, panneau, table
ronde et atelier) : 30 mars 2017
Date limite de soumission des brefs exposés, affiches et réunions d’oiseaux
de la même plume : 15 mai 2017.
Notification d’acceptation des présentations : 20 avril 2017
Notification d’acceptation des brefs exposés, affiches et réunions
d’oiseaux de la même plume : 10 juin 2017

*Types de soumissions & Comment soumettre: *
https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/fr

*Des questions ?* Merci de contacter le Comité du programme par
wikimania-program(à)wikimedia.org.


-- 
Cornelius Kibelka
Program and Engagement Coordinator (PEC)
for the Wikimedia Conference

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
http://wikimedia.de

Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
http://spenden.wikimedia.de/

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikimedia Strategy

[Andrea Zanni]

@Micru: of course, as you say, machine learning is the elephant in the room.
I dream of something we could call "Wikisource as a platform":
meaning an environment with structured data and workflows where you can
have APIs
and tools for interact with humans and machines, both for input and for
output.
We could have OCR software that learn from our human proofreaders, and
ideally we could
even have OCRs tailored for determined centuries or types of books.
We could ue machine learning to look for citations within books (for
example other cited books or authors).¹
This could improve heavily our library:
on Internet Archive or Google Books we have millions of books that just
wait for us to make them
readable and accessible, and, of course, connect them to Wikipedia, to
Wikidata, to other Wikisource books.

IMHO, this is obviously important for GLAMs:
we could be much more usable and easy for libraries, archives and museums
that want to upload into Wikisource their texts and books, and make them
part of our hyperlinked library.
They could import easily on Wikisource, and could export as well.
Now, this is impossible or at least very very difficult.²

I'm not sure that all these features could go in just one project, but it's
probably worth trying.

Aubrey

[1] I remember I explored the idea with Amir, but I couldn't follow up.
[2] To get all the data I needed from Wikisource books, I had to basically
scrape the website.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Pine W  wrote:

> Glad to see this discussion. Pinging Alex Stinson for this discussion in
> case he has any insights to add from a GLAM perspective.
>
> Pine
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 7:48 AM, David Cuenca Tudela 
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Asaf Bartov 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> what might be the significant role our unique advantage might play in 15
>>> years?
>>>
>>
>> There are some circumstantial aspects that might be relevant for
>> Wikisource:
>> - With the emergence of machine learning, do volunteers really need to
>> spend so much time formatting? Or will we able to use our data to train a
>> system to do some pre-formatting for us?
>> - With the existing flood of data, can we consider ws as a relevancy
>> setter? If a document has been transcribed/imported into wikisource, is
>> that enough to make the document relevant?
>> - Considering that not all libraries might have the resources to develop
>> their own platform, can Wikisource be used as a neutral platform by
>> external agents as a complement to their own infrastructure?
>>
>> Regarding the 15 years time frame, it might be a good exercise to examine
>> different scenarios. Yes, one could be to think big, to expect growth and a
>> favorable environment. But what about the opposite? What if there are
>> *less* people able to contribute?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Micru
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wikisource-l mailing list
>> Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
>>
>>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikimedia Strategy

[Andrea Zanni]

I do happen to agree a lot with you, Asaf.

I do think wikisource mainly as a library, and then a place where we
transcribe books.
It happens that books are paper-based, and that we want the text to be
available, searchable and readable. We want to create books and texts for
people to read and use.

"Books are for use" is the first law of Library Science, developed by
Ranaganathan. [1]

What Wikisource do and can do is to make texts more accessible, linking
them with authors, other texts, maybe in the future even other Wikipedia
articles, or places on OpenStreetMap.
We can make the entire literature a place like Wikipedia: an interwoven,
intertwingled structure of texts and data and links.

It really strucks me that, historically, we have mainly two metaphors for
"the sum of human knowledge": the encylopedia, and the library.

The encyclopedia is a single work, with a neutral point of view on "facts",
and we are trying to achieve that with Wikipedia.

The library is a much more complex "object", full of contradictory books
and views and interpretations.
What I'd love to do is a Wikimedia "universe" that goes beyond the
encyclopedic metaphor, and embrace the idea of a more rich galaxy of
connected projects, which provide everything: NPOV articles, free books,
OERs, media, data, and maybe, in the future, other ways of representing
knowledge and comments and opinions of knowledge.

We have yet to tap the idea of letting people comment, customize and
personalize our content for studying and learning, annotating, sharing and
creating educational material directly on our websites.
There will be probably time, but we must recognize we are just at the
beginning.

Aubrey

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_laws_of_library_science

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Asaf Bartov  wrote:

> To my mind, the ~15-year focus invites us to think big (i.e. not a feature
> here or there, but to imagine Wikimedia's role in the world in 2030, and in
> our context here, what Wikisource might be within that role).
>
> This, in turn, brings me back to a point I brought up in Vienna in 2015:
> Wikisource's identity question, vis-a-vis other digital libraries.  In
> particular, assuming not just business-as-usual in coming years (i.e.
> Project Gutenberg adding more books), but also obvious and long-awaited
> developments like national libraries becoming more serious and more
> effective in digitizing *and making accessible* their out-of-copyright
> collections.  In such a world, what might Wikisource's unique value be?
>
> My own answer, in line with our Vienna answer to the identity question, is
> that it is our human curation and meticulous attention to detail that sets
> our project apart from other (better funded and larger-scale) digitization
> efforts.  We are able to create high quality, hyperlinked (and
> semantically-linked, i.e. Wikidata) metadata to describe the texts we
> produce.
>
> If we accept this line of reasoning, what might be the significant role
> our unique advantage might play in 15 years?  What might we work towards to
> get there?  I don't have a clear vision, myself, but I have a strong
> intuition/belief that it is to do with our curation and metadata
> production, more than with our raw transcription production.  This would
> imply a fairly radical shift, in both labor and technological attention,
> and I am not at all sure the Wikisource communities are interested or ready
> to make such a change.  I have sketched one example of the immense value
> our volunteer communities might produce with our parallel and multilingual
> volunteer labor in The Aboutness Project and the Table of Contents of
> Everything project, documented here:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Massively-Multiplayer_Online_Bibliography
> (which I have alas not made progress on in the last year.)
>
> I'd be very interested to hear other opinions about the future I painted
> above, or other futures you see vis-a-vis Wikisource with a ~15-year
> perspective.
>
> Cheers,
>
> A.
>(volunteer hat)
>
> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 10:11 AM Andrea Zanni 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>> as you probably have heard, a process for writing the strategy of
>> Wikimedia has started in these days.
>> It's a complex and collective process, and if you are confused, don't be:
>> everyone is ;-)
>>
>> Conversations are starting to pop everywhere on Meta, on Wikipedias, on
>> Wikisources, probably even on Facebook.
>>
>> Here you can find a briefing, an initial overview of potential topics
>> that may come up across various strategy conversations. I suggest you give
>> it a look to understand the scope of this whole plan:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.or

[Wikisource-l] Wikimedia Strategy

[Andrea Zanni]

Dear all,
as you probably have heard, a process for writing the strategy of Wikimedia
has started in these days.
It's a complex and collective process, and if you are confused, don't be:
everyone is ;-)

Conversations are starting to pop everywhere on Meta, on Wikipedias, on
Wikisources, probably even on Facebook.

Here you can find a briefing, an initial overview of potential topics that
may come up across various strategy conversations. I suggest you give it a
look to understand the scope of this whole plan:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Process/Briefing

The question we are asked to answer is this:
***What do we want to build or achieve together over the next 15 years?***

I'd like you to go back in your community and join (or start) this
conversation,
but also share *here* some of your insights and opinions.
We'll polish these thoughts afterwards: this is the time of speaking your
mind and dream big.

Aubrey
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Re: [Wikisource-l] interesting reading

[Andrea Zanni]

mmm, scam?

Aubrey

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Wikimedia-l  wrote:

> Hi friend!
>
>
>
> I've found a nice book that makes interesting reading, please read it here 
> continue
> reading 
>
>
>
> Yours faithfully, Wikimedia-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] IA Upload tool — higher-quality DjVus

[Andrea Zanni]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 1:59 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> That's a great idea!
> I think we can use Wikidata to build the list:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/zwdbzyq
>
>
Probably, en.source is the only one who has filled in all Wikisource data
inside Wikidata... Or other Wikisources did that? Do you have some workflow
to share?


> I had been erroneously thinking along the lines that we'd have to be
> uploading something to the items before making it part of a Wikisource
> collection, but of course that's not necessary. I think your hierarchy of
> wikisource collections sounds perfect.
>

perfect.



> It'd be cool if items with a page on a Wikisource could have a little
> footnote like they do for Open Library ones ("[image: [Open Library icon]]
> This book has an editable web page
>  on Open Library
> .).
>

We can try to convince them about that. It'd be only for a fraction of
books, few thousands over the millions they have.
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Re: [Wikisource-l] IA Upload tool — higher-quality DjVus

[Andrea Zanni]

Hi everyone,
I made this, hopefully is helful:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/158GvBrPBW0KfREHRmLFK7EhuB-FQBkLbm9qxJBaJTUY/edit?usp=sharing

It's the list of the files on Commons uploaded from Internet Archive.
The idea, right now, is that every language Wikisource would take care of
their uploads,
and when they are more than 50 they create a "Italian/German/Bengali
Wikisource",
collection on Internet Archive.
The whole set of collections will be inside one "Wikisource" global
collection.

Make sense? Do you agree?

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

>
> On Thu, 9 Feb 2017, at 03:13 PM, Alex Brollo wrote:
>
> Thanks Sam!
> Now we should focus on  help about requisites of a good,
> wikisource-oriented IA upload: proper scan quality, good file names and
> useful metadata. IMHO it would be great to build a "wikisource collection"
> into IA, since collection admins can edit any item detail but its ID, and
> fix most mistakes.
>
>
> That sounds like a great idea! So it sounds like
>  we need to have 50 items
> already uploaded before they'll create a collection for us. Then, maybe we
> build it into ia-upload: a way of uploading and setting metadata for a set
> of scan files? It would upload files to IA and then do the DjVu-creating
> thing and upload just the DjVu to Commons?
>
> Or do people upload to Commons first? And then our tool takes a file (or
> category of files), uploads it to IA, and then pulls the DjVu back from
> there and adds it to the same category?
>
> (I'm sort of thinking aloud...)
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikisource hangout next weekend

[Andrea Zanni]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 12:02 PM, Nicolas VIGNERON <
vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm avalaible at 14:00 PM (UTC+1)
>

I'm available too. Let's do this.

Aubrey
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikisource hangout next weekend

[Andrea Zanni]

There will be an hangout today?

On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 9:32 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:

> Great, thank you for the report :)
>
> Le 29/01/2017 à 09:27, Sam Wilson a écrit :
>
> Thanks everyone for coming to the hangout!! It was great to talk about
> all this. :-)
>
> I've attempted to clean up the etherpad 
> notes:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisource_Community_User_Group/January_2017_Hangout#Notes
> Please feel free to clarify anything I've mungled.
>
> NEXT HANGOUT:
>
> Shall we aim for some day on or near Sunday February 26th? Anyone got a
> good suggestion of a time of day? Did 1400UTC work well enough?
>
> —sam
>
>
>
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2017, at 09:57 PM, Sam Wilson wrote:
>
> This is on now.
>
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2017, at 11:56 AM, Sam Wilson wrote:
>
> So it seems that most interested people can make it next Saturday at
> 1400UTC, so I've 
> createdhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisource_Community_User_Group/January_2017_Hangout
> with some info.
>
> —Sam
>
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[Wikisource-l] Wikistats 2.0 and Wikisource

[Andrea Zanni]

Dear all,
the WMF is creating a Wikistats 2.0, a new platform for visualizing stats
about project.
The idea is great, because better analytics means better knowledge of the
project and better insights for us the community.

For this week, until next Monday, they are accepting feedbacks:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikistats_2.0_Design_Project/RequestforFeedback/Round1

I already wrote something about the fact that metrics are always
"wikipedia-centric" and for Wikisource we would need them to "aggregate"
edits at a "book level".
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Wikistats_2.0_Design_Project/RequestforFeedback/Round1/Site_dashboard

If you agree, please say so in that page ;-)

Aubrey
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikisource hangout next weekend

[Andrea Zanni]

Thanks for the notes!

Aubrey

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 9:27 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Thanks everyone for coming to the hangout!! It was great to talk about
> all this. :-)
>
> I've attempted to clean up the etherpad notes:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisource_Community_
> User_Group/January_2017_Hangout#Notes
> Please feel free to clarify anything I've mungled.
>
> NEXT HANGOUT:
>
> Shall we aim for some day on or near Sunday February 26th? Anyone got a
> good suggestion of a time of day? Did 1400UTC work well enough?
>
> —sam
>
>
>
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2017, at 09:57 PM, Sam Wilson wrote:
> > This is on now.
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Jan 2017, at 11:56 AM, Sam Wilson wrote:
> > > So it seems that most interested people can make it next Saturday at
> > > 1400UTC, so I've created
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisource_Community_
> User_Group/January_2017_Hangout
> > > with some info.
> > >
> > > —Sam
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
> >
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Re: [Wikisource-l] The conversion from PDF to DJVU loses too much quality

[Andrea Zanni]

AFAIK, IA always produce the jp2 files by himself.

I suggest GLAMs to upload zipped folders of jpegs,
so IA can do his magic and produce a book viewer and a PDF as well as the
jp2.

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 12:10 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2017, at 06:35 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> The problem for me is that librarians and other people who are genuinely
> interested in Wikisource and IA
> don't understand why
> * they upload a good scan on IA
> * see a good book on IA, via the viewer
> * get an horrible djvu on Wikisource.
>
> This is the issue we should try to solve, otherwise we will lose a
> potential important ally, content and new userbase.
> Aubrey
>
>
> Definitely!
>
> On a related note: most (all?) IA-scanned books have e.g. *_jp2.zip files
> containing all the original scan images, but is there any standard for
> user-uploaded books? Like your librarians above, I assume they're uploading
> individual jpg/png files? Do these get combined into a single zip? I'm
> thinking that they don't, and that ia-upload needs to provide the option of
> using any of the following sources:
>
>- .djvu
>- _jp2.zip (there's also _jpg.zip and _raw_jp2.zip, but I guess we
>don't need to use them?)
>- *.jpg + *.jp2 + *.png (i.e. use all images in the item, apart from
>_cover_image.jpg)
>- .pdf
>
>
> Sound complete? Or are there other ways?
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] The conversion from PDF to DJVU loses too much quality

[Andrea Zanni]

The problem for me is that librarians and other people who are genuinely
interested in Wikisource and IA
don't understand why
* they upload a good scan on IA
* see a good book on IA, via the viewer
* get an horrible djvu on Wikisource.

This is the issue we should try to solve, otherwise we will lose a
potential important ally, content and new userbase.

Aubrey

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Alex Brollo  wrote:

> By now IA pdf too are very compressed, sometimes too much - the result
> being impredictable; the problem is, that viewer doesn't uses djvu nor pdf
> IMHO, so the quality of pdf (and of resulting djvu by pdf2djvu) doesn't
> mirror at all the quality of viewer images.
>
> The IA pdf needs a good review before upload it into Commons.
>
> There are subltle advantages using djvu instead of pdf, i.e. fixing errors
> into source file (adding/deleting/moving pages, manipulating text layer);
> djvu is a great "wiki" format since it is *open*.
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> 2017-01-25 11:35 GMT+01:00 Yann Forget :
>
>>
>>
>> 2017-01-25 8:40 GMT+01:00 Sam Wilson :
>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2017, at 03:27 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 1:45 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Yann, do you mean you're getting good quality DjVu generated from the
>>> PDF? Or from the original scan Jpegs?
>>>
>>> AFAIU, Yann is using ABBYY finereader to generate a djvu and then
>>> uploads it directly to Commons. So outside of our ia-upload tool.
>>>
>>> Ah, okay. So if it could be done in the tool, that'd be nicer.
>>>
>>> Yes, it is a question of settings.
>>
>>> Aubrey: when you say directly use the PDF, you mean for the tool to copy
>>> that across to Commons and not create a DjVu?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>> If the Djvu quality is much lower than the PDF there's no reason to use
>>> the djvu over the pdf :-(
>>>
>>> DjVu has to advantages over PDF: better compression, so small files for
>> the same content, and better management of the text layer.
>> Over if the compression is too high, the quality is not good. It is a
>> question of a compromise between quality and size.
>>
>> Yann
>>
>>
>>> Are we saying that we *never* want to use the IA PDF? That if there's a
>>> DjVu we use it, and if there isn't we generate our own DjVu from the JP2
>>> and djvu.xml files? Or should the tool user make this call and we give them
>>> a drop-down list of "PDF only", "Generate DjVu from PDF", and "Generate
>>> DjVu from original scans" with a note about the last of these being higher
>>> quality but slower?
>>>
>>> I think I'm in favour of just generating a high-quality DjVu and making
>>> it simpler for the end user. But we want to be flexible too. jayantanth
>>> mentioned <https://github.com/Tpt/ia-upload/issues/15> that he'd like
>>> to be able to just upload the PDF for example.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I can have a look at adding that feature perhaps? (Anyone else working
>>> on this?)
>>>
>>>
>>> Please ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> I can try!  :-)
>>>
>>> Aubrey
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] The conversion from PDF to DJVU loses too much quality

[Andrea Zanni]

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Are we saying that we *never* want to use the IA PDF? That if there's a
> DjVu we use it, and if there isn't we generate our own DjVu from the JP2
> and djvu.xml files? Or should the tool user make this call and we give them
> a drop-down list of "PDF only", "Generate DjVu from PDF", and "Generate
> DjVu from original scans" with a note about the last of these being higher
> quality but slower?
>
> I think I'm in favour of just generating a high-quality DjVu and making it
> simpler for the end user. But we want to be flexible too. jayantanth
> mentioned  that he'd like to
> be able to just upload the PDF for example.
>


Ideally, a menu is perfect, with the "default" of the best solution :-)
Right now, unfortunately, the djvu is not sufficient quality, when
processed from a PDF.
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Re: [Wikisource-l] The conversion from PDF to DJVU loses too much quality

[Andrea Zanni]

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 1:45 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Yann, do you mean you're getting good quality DjVu generated from the PDF?
> Or from the original scan Jpegs?
>
> AFAIU, Yann is using ABBYY finereader to generate a djvu and then uploads
it directly to Commons. So outside of our ia-upload tool.


> Aubrey: when you say directly use the PDF, you mean for the tool to copy
> that across to Commons and not create a DjVu?
>

Yes.
If the Djvu quality is much lower than the PDF there's no reason to use the
djvu over the pdf :-(

>
> I can have a look at adding that feature perhaps? (Anyone else working on
> this?)
>
> Please ;-)

Aubrey
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[Wikisource-l] The conversion from PDF to DJVU loses too much quality

[Andrea Zanni]

I added this issue to IA-upload tool on github:
https://github.com/Tpt/ia-upload/issues/14

Unfortunately, the new PDF > DJVU conversion is useless, as it loses too
much quality.
Can we find a solution?
The IA-Upload tool is a great asset for the whole international community,
and it's very simple to teach librarians to upload stuff on IA and then use
it to port it on Commons and Wikisource.
But when they upload new stuff on IA, we don't have the IA djvu anymore.
So the tool converts the original PDF to a new DJVU, and this is the part
of the process that is failing.

I can think of 2 solutions:
* integrate this script from Alex brollo into the tool:
https://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Progetto:Bot/Programmi_
in_Python_per_i_bot/jp2todjvu.py
the script creates a good quality djvu
* have a toggle/top-down menu which allow the user to use directly the PDF.

Andrea
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Re: [Wikisource-l] GLAMwiki Coordinators meeting

[Andrea Zanni]

:-)

I was asked to go, but I declined.
I gave your name (and several others) not (only) out of sympathy,
but because you're really good at what you do, because you're involved with
GLAMs, and because the conference is in Paris.
I think it's great opportunity to remind French GLAM people of the amazing
opportunities that Wikisource offers, and also to advocate other Wikimedia
GLAM Coordinators of the importance of WS in the GLAM ecosystem.

Aubrey

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 4:28 PM, Nicolas VIGNERON <
vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> It was suggested that I should go to GLAMwiki Coordinators meeting [1]
> next month as « the official representative of the Wikisource Group. »
> (apparently, Andrea gave my name, probably because I won't go to Berlin :P).
>
> I'll probably go as it's a great opportunity to remind the GLAM what
> wonderful things can be done and offer on Wikisource.
> I'm pretty familliar with the global Wikisource dynamics and position but
> If you have specific points you want to focus or examples of partnership
> with GLAM (past, current or planned ; good or bad), don't hesitate to share
> them with me. Any comments or advices are welcome too.
>
> Cdlt, Nicolas Vigneron
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2017_European_GLAMwiki_
> Coordinators_meeting
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikiconference in Berlin

[Andrea Zanni]

Unfortunately Mondays are now not so good for me,
I'm always out for work.
Saturday is not a bad day per se, it's just 6-7 in the morning that's not
ideal ;-)


On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 2:59 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> How about either Monday 23rd UTC1400, or Saturday 28th 0600UTC?
>
> On Thu, 5 Jan 2017, at 07:53 PM, Sam Wilson wrote:
> > Okay, cool! How about the last week of January? Or is that too soon?
> > We'll know all the interesting things to come out of the MediaWiki Dev
> > Summit, which will be good to talk about.
> >
> > Anyway, I made a doodle thing:
> > https://doodle.com/poll/g3svqgdmekmcy6tx
> > so at least maybe we can see how many people are interested?
> >
> > (I've attempted to follow
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Best_practices_in_scheduling_a_meeting )
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 5 Jan 2017, at 06:49 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
> > > I really like the idea :-)
> >
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikiconference in Berlin

[Andrea Zanni]

I really like the idea :-)
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikiconference in Berlin

[Andrea Zanni]

Hi Sam,
In the end, as the time was running out, (sunday is last day)
I registered for the Strategy track and Ernest for the partnership one.

I really hope to speak with someone from your team,
and if you're available we can also discuss things together before the
conference
and during it (not sure if a skype call is possibile, but we could try).

Aubrey

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 1:46 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Well I'm keen if there's a spare spot an no one more suitable wants it!
>
> On Wed, 4 Jan 2017, at 01:02 AM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> Hi
> everyone.
> I booked for myself one seat for the Strategy track (time is running out
> and, as far as I know, nobody proposed for it).
> There still available one seat for the "Capacity Building & Partnerships
> learning" track.
> Who wants it? Ernest? Sam? Nicholas? Others?
>
> PS: Tpt will be present too!
> Aubrey
>
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Andrea Zanni 
> wrote:
>
> Yes,
> but maybe they will come to the Wikiconf in another capacity, as WIkimania
> organizers... Or not. If not, Ernest is perfect for the Wikiconf.
>
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Nicolas VIGNERON <
> vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Maybe we should ask Benoît or Ernest from WM CA who works on the excellent
> parternship with the National Library and Archives of Québec (BAnQ) and are
> always looking for ways to improve it.
> Cdlt, ~nicolas
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikiconference in Berlin

[Andrea Zanni]

(please refer to my previous mail in this thread for more details).

Aubrey

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 6:02 PM, Andrea Zanni 
wrote:

> Hi
> everyone.
> I booked for myself one seat for the Strategy track (time is running out
> and, as far as I know, nobody proposed for it).
> There still available one seat for the "Capacity Building & Partnerships
> learning" track.
> Who wants it? Ernest? Sam? Nicholas? Others?
>
> PS: Tpt will be present too!
>
> Aubrey
>
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Andrea Zanni 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes,
>> but maybe they will come to the Wikiconf in another capacity, as
>> WIkimania organizers... Or not. If not, Ernest is perfect for the Wikiconf.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Nicolas VIGNERON <
>> vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Maybe we should ask Benoît or Ernest from WM CA who works on the
>>> excellent parternship with the National Library and Archives of Québec
>>> (BAnQ) and are always looking for ways to improve it.
>>>
>>> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikiconference in Berlin

[Andrea Zanni]

Hi
everyone.
I booked for myself one seat for the Strategy track (time is running out
and, as far as I know, nobody proposed for it).
There still available one seat for the "Capacity Building & Partnerships
learning" track.
Who wants it? Ernest? Sam? Nicholas? Others?

PS: Tpt will be present too!

Aubrey

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Andrea Zanni 
wrote:

> Yes,
> but maybe they will come to the Wikiconf in another capacity, as WIkimania
> organizers... Or not. If not, Ernest is perfect for the Wikiconf.
>
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Nicolas VIGNERON <
> vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Maybe we should ask Benoît or Ernest from WM CA who works on the
>> excellent parternship with the National Library and Archives of Québec
>> (BAnQ) and are always looking for ways to improve it.
>>
>> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>>
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>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Upload/import wizard

[Andrea Zanni]

On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> And if we're building DjVus for Commons from IA files (either PDFs or the
> Jpegs), should we also be adding those DjVus back to the IA item?
> (Actually, can we even edit IA items that we haven't created ourselves?)
> I'm figuring not doing so (but maybe adding a comment to the IA item that
> links to the DjVu on Commons).
>


Ideally, we should talk to IA about this.
Adding a comment on the IA item is a very low-cost solution and I think is
important, adding the djvu would be much better. We should check if a
script can edit every kind of item and add files (I think not).

Aubrey
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Drop OAI-PMH repository of Index: pages

[Andrea Zanni]

Hi Thomas.

I used, one year ago, the API: I downloaded the data from the Index pages,
and I think that it would be good to have it while we still don't have
Wikidata.
I guess it could be very useful to use for importing those data into
Wikidata.

The problem with those API is that it works only it Index pages, which are
only a fraction of the "book" entity on Wikisource. Index pages are not
linked in a structured way with their ns0 pages, and this is a problem for
us.

Ideally, we would know when a Index page has only one ns0 page, and we
would use the same set of data to create an entity (or more) into Wikidata.

I know that Sam is trying to develop a similar tool:
https://tools.wmflabs.org/ws-search/
and I don't know if that uses your API.

Aubrey

On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Thomas PT  wrote:

> I definitely used the pageviews API. So I understand now why the count was
> 0. Sorry for the false info and thank you for your correction.
>
> But my proposal still stands as I do not know any actual user of the API.
>
> Thomas
>
> > Le 30 déc. 2016 à 18:11, Federico Leva (Nemo)  a
> écrit :
> >
> > Sorry for the double message.
> >
> > Thomas PT, 30/12/2016 17:31:
> >> According to the Wikimedia PageView statistic tool
> >
> > Did you literally use https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews , or have you
> asked for real requests data? The pageviews API doesn't count requests to
> the OAI-PMH endpoint at all, because they have "content-type: text/xml"
> while text/html is required: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Research:Page_view#Definition
> >
> > Only people with access to https://wikitech.wikimedia.
> org/wiki/Analytics/Data/Webrequest#wmf.webrequest can extract data on how
> much it's used.
> >
> > Nemo
> >
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikiconference in Berlin

[Andrea Zanni]

Yes,
but maybe they will come to the Wikiconf in another capacity, as WIkimania
organizers... Or not. If not, Ernest is perfect for the Wikiconf.

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Nicolas VIGNERON <
vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Maybe we should ask Benoît or Ernest from WM CA who works on the excellent
> parternship with the National Library and Archives of Québec (BAnQ) and are
> always looking for ways to improve it.
>
> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikiconference in Berlin

[Andrea Zanni]

I just received this mail:

In preparation for a movement strategy conversation in Berlin, we would
like to extend one more invitation for a second representative to attend
the Wikimedia Conference this March. This is in addition to the one
representative that is already invited to attend the conference on behalf
of your affiliate. This year’s conference has been built with 3 tracks;
extending one additional invite will allow your group to designate one
person for strategy and one for the customary learning tracks.

   - 1 person - Strategy track
   - 1 person - Capacity Building & Partnerships learning tracks

During the Strategy track, we will be discussing the future of the movement
and the best ways to fulfil our vision: that every single human being can
freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Importantly, the person you
designate for the Strategy track should have demonstrated leadership and/or
domain expertise important to your group’s efforts.

You should prioritize someone who...

   - will represent your community and share back home what they learn
   - has implemented one or more different types of programmatic or
   engagement leadership in the last 12 months in your community
   - has engaged in learning and/or evaluation practices in order to learn
   and share about your group’s strategic activities and program work
   - is working to develop and/or lead strategic efforts in your community
   (e.g., communications, volunteer engagement, skills development for
   community engagement, community health, program design and evaluation).

If you have already registered a representative to join the main conference
in Berlin and that person is your preferred representative for the Strategy
track, no problem. You may choose a second person to attend one of the
other conference tracks while your original representative attends
Strategy.

To designate your representatives to the Strategy and a non-strategy track,
reply to this message and share the names of

   1. the person you wish to represent your group in the Strategy track
   2. the person you wish to participate in Capacity Building &
   Partnerships learning tracks

Please respond to this message to let us know about your additional
representative’s name and email address as well as the track designation
for your representatives as soon as you are able. There will be a new
registration period for the additional person to register, which will be
open January 9 through January 30, 2017. We will keep track of your
decision and share the invitation to register to the additional affiliate
representative.

Please take the time to consult with each other to determine who is best to
represent your group. Once we hear back, we will proceed with messaging to
share a registration link for your additional representative so that they
may register before the deadline.

---

If this is the case, I'd like to propose myself for the Strategy track, if
you are OK with it.
There is the possibility to have someone else for the other track, so I
encourage you to think about it.

If there are more candidates, we could try to vote or something?

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 3:26 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Hurrah! Yes, definitely someone should go. Johan Jönsson and Leon Ziemba
> will be there from Community Tech, so I *think* that means I won't be (even
> though I desperately would love to talk to more people about Wikisource!).
> Perhaps that depends on what non-top-10 items from the Wishlist Survey are
> to be worked on (and that's not clear quite yet). If a Wikisource one (i.e.
> Han characters, or import-wizard; they're they top-voted) is chosen, then
> perhaps I could come too.
>
> Anyway, someone should be there representing Wikisource as well!
>
> Would it be good to set up a meeting sometime (IRC or hangouts maybe) to
> talk about things? I'm sure timezones etc. will be a problem, but might be
> good.
>
> —sam
>
>
>
> On Tue, 20 Dec 2016, at 05:22 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
> and happy holidays :-)
>
> As a User Group, we are eligible to send one member to the Wikimedia
> Conference in Berlin [1].
> I participated last year, and if I'm not mistaken Micru did in 2015.
> The conference is a place where the WMF, chapters and other affiliates
> gather to discuss many topics, and it's a great occasion for advocacy.
> I remember that last year I had the chance to sit with Danny Horn (from
> Community Tech team) for a whole hour to show him Wikisource stuff and
> issues. He told me they needed a new member of the team. Few months later,
> our own Sam Wilson was picked. Of course, that is all to Sam's credit (he's
> really good), but there is much more awareness in the WMF about Wikisource,
> and we are the ones who have to *build* that awareness. That conversation I
> had with Danny )among many 

[Wikisource-l] Wikiconference in Berlin

[Andrea Zanni]

Hello everyone,
and happy holidays :-)

As a User Group, we are eligible to send one member to the Wikimedia
Conference in Berlin [1].
I participated last year, and if I'm not mistaken Micru did in 2015.

The conference is a place where the WMF, chapters and other affiliates
gather to discuss many topics, and it's a great occasion for advocacy.

I remember that last year I had the chance to sit with Danny Horn (from
Community Tech team) for a whole hour to show him Wikisource stuff and
issues. He told me they needed a new member of the team. Few months later,
our own Sam Wilson was picked. Of course, that is all to Sam's credit (he's
really good), but there is much more awareness in the WMF about Wikisource,
and we are the ones who have to *build* that awareness. That conversation I
had with Danny )among many others) helped, and so we gotta keep talking to
people and explaining what Wikisource is.

And our work is not finished.
Things are slowly improving, but we want them to improve more and faster.
And we gotta check that there are improving constantly.

So this is why I think these gatherings are important.
We have the chance to send one of us to Berlin: and we should have some
candidates.

Not sure how we should do it (maybe a "formal" election?) but the first
thing is see how many of us are willing to go, so please reply to this mail
and candidate yourself if you will.

I'm available, and I'd like to go, but I also went last year, so we shall
decide all together.

Aubrey

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2017/Eligibility_Criteria
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Community Wishlist Survey 2016 - Voting period opened

[Andrea Zanni]

Thanks for the reminder, just voted and commented.

I supported also the OAI-PMH proposal,
but I think it's not the solution, as we already have such a tool and
nobody uses it...
It's years (for me, an entire decade...) that we advocate and propose
solutions for metadata workflow in Wikisource, and as far as I understand,
a big part of it is Wikidata.

IMHO, we should try to put all our descriptive metadata (author, title,
etc.) there, with a good, meaningful structure (we should understand which
metadata are from the ns0 page, which from the Index pages, they are often
different). Then, we could build APIs or other tools on that.
WS search tool was a step in the right direction, but it's a difficult job
and it should be a community effort.

Aubrey

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 11:30 PM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> And don't forget to vote for your own proposals (otherwise your own
> support won't be counted in the tally).
>
> :-)
>
> The top three Wikisource proposals so far are:
>
> Upload Wikisource text wizard
> 
>
> 9
> Support Open Archives Initiative Protocol for Metadata Harvesting (OAI-PMH)
> 
>
> 7
> Integrate the CIS-LMU Post Correction Tool
> 
>
> 4
>
> (Although, of course it's far to early to draw any conclusions from that.)
>
>
> On Tue, 29 Nov 2016, at 12:16 AM, David Cuenca Tudela wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> The voting period has been opened. You can see the proposals for
> Wikisource and enter your votes here:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2016_Community_Wishlist_
> Survey/Categories/Wikisource
>
> Cheers,
> Micru
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>
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[Wikisource-l] Happy birthday Wikisource!

[Andrea Zanni]

Hello everyone,
a reminder that today is Wikisource 13th birthday!

How many communities are running a "proofreading contest"?
Italian Wikisource is doing it, any other one?

Thanks to Cristian Consonni, this year the "counting" should be easier, the
code is all online:
https://github.com/wscontest

Aubrey
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[Wikisource-l] EPUB importer

[Andrea Zanni]

I was wondering if someone made some script for "importing epubs"
into Wikisource, meaning that
* there is a "translation" from HTML to wikitext
* there is a translation of the Index

It's not a very big deal to do this by hand, but sometimes it would be very
cool and helpful for those texts/books which are maybe present in Gutenberg
prject (or similar) and are not available in scans...

Thanks

Aubrey
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Fwd: [Wikitech-ambassadors] Your help needed: Community Wishlist Survey 2016

[Andrea Zanni]

I remember when we tried to make a partnership with a scholar who works
with ancient texts.
He needed some Italian translation of Greek texts in Wikisource, but he was
much more interested in validated/proofread text *without* formatting, than
the contrary.
75% for us is formatted, always.
But, arguably, for people it's easier to correct typos and proofread than
format with strange templates and codes. We always assume that people know
how Wikisource works, how wikicode works, etc.

A brand new quality workflow could be beneficial.

Aubrey


On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 9:54 AM, Alex Brollo  wrote:

>  coupled with a KISSing approach  it could run perhaps :-)
>
> Alex
>
> 2016-11-11 9:37 GMT+01:00 Sam Wilson :
>
>> Yes, makes sense! Or a series of attributes like:
>>
>> proofread once?
>> proofread twice?
>> formatted?
>> all images added?
>> hyperlinked?
>> transcluded?
>> read in context with other pages?
>> etc.
>>
>> Only some of which need be linear.
>>
>> And only when all are done is the thing considered bonzer. :-)
>>
>> —sam
>>
>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2016, at 04:17 PM, Alex Brollo wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to state a "binary page quality" splitting the workflow into its
>> basic steps (proofreading of text; formatting; adding links;
>> validating), t.i. into a set of true/false states, clearly showing the
>> list of lacking steps. I.e. sometimes I fastly add complex formatting to
>> rough text, and this results into a exotic  "level" proofreading=false,
>> formatting=true. It's a level 1, but it is deeply different from a level 1
>> coming from proofreading=true, formatting=false.
>> Obviously the whole "binary level" could be simply stored as a number,
>> with useful information into it.
>> Alex
>>
>> 2016-11-11 8:32 GMT+01:00 Sam Wilson :
>>
>>
>> That sounds really interesting! Do you mean as a way for people
>> unfamiliar with Wikisource to easily contribute notes and corrections? On
>> the face of things, it could perhaps work by storing the notes in a the
>> Page_talk namspace and doing some clever thing to display them on the Page
>> (and perhaps in main) namespaces.
>>
>> It seems like it'd be cool to be able to get "typo reports" or something,
>> from people who mightn't have any idea of Wikisource other than that's
>> where they got an epub.
>>
>> To rate a page, we currently have the various levels of proofreading
>> quality. Is this not sufficient? And does the current Index page overview
>> of all of a book's statuses work for you? I sometimes wonder if we need
>> another rating, above 'validated', that indicates that a whole book has
>> been read through and (hopefully) any remaining typos have been found.
>>
>>
>> —sam
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2016, at 12:27 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:
>>
>> Hmm, at the conference I think someone was interested in a feature to
>> make comments on texts, like you can make on some word processors for
>> example. That may be interesting, but how you render the result might be a
>> huge user interface problem. One should be able to choose whom comments
>> should be visible…
>>
>> Otherwise, I would still be happy to have more flexibable way to "rate" a
>> page. That is, a page might be text proof readed, but laking some css, or a
>> picture should be extracted etc. Having a way to see that for all pages in
>> the book: namespace would be fine.
>>
>> ĝis baldaŭ
>>
>> Le 10/11/2016 à 06:09, Sam Wilson a écrit :
>>
>> Thanks Alex :) It's a minor project so far, but I reckon the work you've
>> been doing on making a better, bigger, more proofreading-focused
>> interface is really good. Do stick a proposal up!
>>
>> So far, we've got:
>>
>> * Add a 'clean' method for side-titles, and side notes to parser
>> * A spelling- and typo-checking system for proofreading
>> * Visual Editor menu refresh
>> * upload text wizard
>> * Language links in Wikisource for edition items in Wikidata
>> * Display subpage name in category
>> * Make Special:IndexPage transcludeable
>> * Fix Extension:Cite to get rid of foibles
>>
>> If anyone's got half-formed ideas, I'd encourage you to post something,
>> or just post to this mailing list, and we can all have a chat about it.
>> :)
>>
>> —sam
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, at 04:50 PM, Alex Brollo wrote:
>>
>> I too could add *some* proposals but the first one could be a deep 
>> revision of nsPage edit interface to got the goal "fixed tools, almost full 
>> screen scrolling text & image". In the meantime, I'm go on testing 
>> FullScreenEditing.js by Sam, that presently is an excellent, running  step 
>> approximating such a goal.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> 2016-11-09 1:03 GMT+01:00 Sam Wilson  
>> :
>>
>> __
>> Huzza for Wikisource; we've currently got more proposals than any of the 
>> other categories (not that it's a competition, but still...).
>>
>> @Micru: this whole topic of how to represent bibliographic data in WD and 
>> properly link it in Wikisource is great! I'm looking forward to helping. :-)
>>
>>
>> —sam
>>
>>
>>
>> On 

Re: [Wikisource-l] Fwd: [Wikitech-ambassadors] Your help needed: Community Wishlist Survey 2016

[Andrea Zanni]

I don't know how to structure it, but with Wikimedia Italia and
the Italian Wikisource community we talked a lot about the "upload tool"
from Internet Archive

The idea is that, from at least 4-5 years, it's a good practice to upload
the books
into Internet Archive, and then use the djvu.
This year, as you all know, djvu support has been discontinued by IA: right
now, there is only the PDF.
Tpt solved the issue in the IA upload tool, but unfortunately the quality
of the new djvu is often not sufficient.

Here's what we could do:
* rewrite and integrate Alex's DJVU script into the tool:
https://gist.github.com/alexbrollo/cc3c187172ac848bd896ecb2b812dc51 (the
script produces an high-quality djvu)
* create a better GUI for the system
* discuss all together for having a much simpler tool/workflow for newbies,
integrated with Commons, Wikidata, Wikisource

Inserting stuff into Internet Archive is relatively easy, and that is good:
we can let them the difficult part, and we can just

Right now, there are at least 3-4 libraries in Italy with open partnerships
with Wikimedia Italia, which want to upload books on Wikisource. A good,
simple workflow could help many institutions around the world to do the
same, and work with the community to proofread texts. It's a good way to
get both some quality texts and new committed editors and visibility.



On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 6:09 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Thanks Alex :) It's a minor project so far, but I reckon the work you've
> been doing on making a better, bigger, more proofreading-focused
> interface is really good. Do stick a proposal up!
>
> So far, we've got:
>
> * Add a 'clean' method for side-titles, and side notes to parser
> * A spelling- and typo-checking system for proofreading
> * Visual Editor menu refresh
> * upload text wizard
> * Language links in Wikisource for edition items in Wikidata
> * Display subpage name in category
> * Make Special:IndexPage transcludeable
> * Fix Extension:Cite to get rid of foibles
>
> If anyone's got half-formed ideas, I'd encourage you to post something,
> or just post to this mailing list, and we can all have a chat about it.
> :)
>
> —sam
>
>
> On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, at 04:50 PM, Alex Brollo wrote:
> > I too could add *some* proposals but the first one could be a deep
> revision of nsPage edit interface to got the goal "fixed tools, almost full
> screen scrolling text & image". In the meantime, I'm go on testing
> FullScreenEditing.js by Sam, that presently is an excellent, running  step
> approximating such a goal.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > 2016-11-09 1:03 GMT+01:00 Sam Wilson :
> >> __
> >> Huzza for Wikisource; we've currently got more proposals than any of
> the other categories (not that it's a competition, but still...).
> >>
> >> @Micru: this whole topic of how to represent bibliographic data in WD
> and properly link it in Wikisource is great! I'm looking forward to
> helping. :-)
> >>
> >>
> >> —sam
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 8 Nov 2016, at 10:08 PM, David Cuenca Tudela wrote:
> >>> Hi Thomas,
> >>> thanks for bringing that up! I wrote a proposal to finish the work
> retrieving the language links from several editions and represent them in
> wikisource as language links.
> >>>
> >>> To write or vote exiting Wikisource proposals, the link is:
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2016_Community_Wishlist_
> Survey/Categories/Wikisource
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Micru
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Thomas PT 
> wrote:
>  Hello everyone,
> 
>  The Wikimedia Foundation Community Tech team has launched a new
> "Community Wishlist Survey".
>  Last year survey allowed us to get WMF staff time to work on using
> Google OCR in Wikisource that allowed some Indian languages Wikisources to
> raise and on VisualEditor support.
> 
>  Please, take time to submit new wishes and comment them. It could be
> simple things (e.g. a new gadget for a specific workflow) or very
> complicated ones (e.g. native TEI support).
> 
>  Cheers,
> 
>  Thomas
> 
> 
> > Début du message réexpédié :
> >
> > *De: *Johan Jönsson 
> > *Objet: **[Wikitech-ambassadors] Your help needed: Community
> Wishlist Survey 2016*
> > *Date: *7 novembre 2016 à 20:26:21 UTC+1
> > *À: *Wikitech Ambassadors 
> > *Répondre à: *Coordination of technology deployments across
> languages/projects 
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Last year, the Community Tech team did a survey for a community
> wishlist to decide what we shoudl be working on throughout the year. Since
> it's useful to have a list of tasks from the Wikimedia communities, it's
> also been used by other developers,
>  been the focus of Wikimedia hackathons and so on. In short, I think it
>  matters.
> >
> > Now we're doing the process again.
> >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2016_Community_Wishlist_Survey
> >
> > If you'd feel like spreading this in your communities, it would be
> much a

Re: [Wikisource-l] Indic Wikisource Update November 2016

[Andrea Zanni]

Thanks Mathieu.
What really strikes me is that challenge is doable in fr.wikisource: in
many others would be complete madness ;-)
Also, Polish Wikisource is doing great.

What interest me is understanding how they are building their community of
active and super-active proofreaders: are they doing something that other
wikisource aren't?

Aubrey


On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 8:36 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:

> I guess that the "100 livres en 100 jours
> <https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Accueil/100wikijours>" (100
> books in 100 days) challenge help somewhat. The goal is to treat a whole
> new book everyday. No anticipation work allowed. Missing the goal a single
> day reset the counter.
>
> Le 03/11/2016 à 01:46, Sam Wilson a écrit :
>
> Yes, I agree! :-) There're so many smallish things that I reckon can go a
> long way towards making Wikisources bigger and better.
>
> And it keeps surprising me how many people within the Wikimedia movement
> aren't familiar with how Wikisource works — and are amazed when they're
> shown! :-) It really does seem that we're not very good at advertising
> ourselves. (Well, one doesn't like to blow one's own trumpet, does one?)
>
> Talking of stats, what is French Wikisource doing that's so successful at
> getting things proofread and validated?
> https://tools.wmflabs.org/phetools/graphs/Wikisource_-_
> proofread_pages_per_day.png
> https://tools.wmflabs.org/phetools/statistics.php?diff=30
>
> —sam
>
> On Thu, 3 Nov 2016, at 02:16 AM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> Thanks, Jayanta,
> is very important that you keep track of this progress.
> Have you talked with Sam Wilson about this?
> There could be many ways in which the WMF can help you
> analyze this important moment of the Indic community,
> and it's also very important to them (and their donors)
> to understand how do they have an impact.
> Google OCR is a "simple thing", but we ("Western wikisources) learned very
> late that
> OCR was not available in many Indic languages.
> I have shown many people in the WMF the stats about Telugu Wikisource (the
> peak in the chart)
> and it's crucial that many other people inside WMF is aware of that.
> The Indic Wikisource community can show that there are very "cheap" things
> the WMF can do to help their communities thrive. The Indic Wikisource
> community thus has a big responsability ;-)
> Aubrey
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:02 PM, Jayanta Nath  wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> We've just published the November 2016 Indic Wikisource statistics. After
> implementing Google OCR script to our all Indic Wikisource , they are
> growing rapidly.
>
> Here is the few stats ans their top three rank...
> As per Number of article
> 1. Sanskrit Wikisource ( 15445 pages) -  supported by 0.05% scan pages.
> 2. Telugu Wikisource ( 11707 pages) - supported by 24.3% scan pages.
> 3. Kannada Wikisource ( 7864 pages) - supported by 0.99% scan pages.
>
>
> As per Number of page Validation
>
> 1. Telugu Wikisource (  18142 pages)
> 2. Tamil Wikisource ( 5167 pages)
> 3. Gujarati Wikisource ( 3729 pages)
>
>
> As per Number of page Proofread
>
> 1. Telugu Wikisource ( 20213 pages)
> 2. Malayalam Wikisource ( 8065 pages)
> 3. Tamil Wikisource ( 7737 pages)
>
> As per percentage supported by scan pages.
> 1. Bengali Wikisource  (25.90%)
> 2. Telugu Wikisource ( 24.30%)
> 3. Gujarati Wikisource (17.51%)
> I want to specially mention that there are no visible improvement at
> Marathi and Assamese Wikisource.
>
> For Sanskrit and Kannada Wikisource, they need to exploring their work of
> proofreaded text towards scan page support.
> Full Indic Wikisource stats here
> https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Indic_Wikisource_Stats
> Regards,
> Jayanta Nath
> Indic Wikisource Community
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Indic Wikisource Update November 2016

[Andrea Zanni]

Thanks, Jayanta,
is very important that you keep track of this progress.
Have you talked with Sam Wilson about this?

There could be many ways in which the WMF can help you
analyze this important moment of the Indic community,
and it's also very important to them (and their donors)
to understand how do they have an impact.

Google OCR is a "simple thing", but we ("Western wikisources) learned very
late that
OCR was not available in many Indic languages.
I have shown many people in the WMF the stats about Telugu Wikisource (the
peak in the chart)
and it's crucial that many other people inside WMF is aware of that.
The Indic Wikisource community can show that there are very "cheap" things
the WMF can do to help their communities thrive. The Indic Wikisource
community thus has a big responsability ;-)

Aubrey


On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:02 PM, Jayanta Nath  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> We've just published the November 2016 Indic Wikisource statistics. After
> implementing Google OCR script to our all Indic Wikisource , they are
> growing rapidly.
>
> Here is the few stats ans their top three rank...
>
> As per Number of article
> 1. Sanskrit Wikisource ( 15445 pages) -  supported by 0.05% scan pages.
> 2. Telugu Wikisource ( 11707 pages) - supported by 24.3% scan pages.
> 3. Kannada Wikisource ( 7864 pages) - supported by 0.99% scan pages.
>
>
> As per Number of page Validation
>
> 1. Telugu Wikisource (  18142 pages)
> 2. Tamil Wikisource ( 5167 pages)
> 3. Gujarati Wikisource ( 3729 pages)
>
>
> As per Number of page Proofread
>
> 1. Telugu Wikisource ( 20213 pages)
> 2. Malayalam Wikisource ( 8065 pages)
> 3. Tamil Wikisource ( 7737 pages)
>
> As per percentage supported by scan pages.
> 1. Bengali Wikisource  (25.90%)
> 2. Telugu Wikisource ( 24.30%)
> 3. Gujarati Wikisource (17.51%)
>
> I want to specially mention that there are no visible improvement at
> Marathi and Assamese Wikisource.
>
> For Sanskrit and Kannada Wikisource, they need to exploring their work of
> proofreaded text towards scan page support.
>
> Full Indic Wikisource stats here
> https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Indic_Wikisource_Stats
>
> Regards,
> Jayanta Nath
> Indic Wikisource Community
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikisource API client PHP package

[Andrea Zanni]

Thanks!
Now I'll wait for a Python wrapper :-D

Aubrey

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 3:22 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've been attempting to generalise some code for scraping data out of
> Wikisources:
> https://github.com/wikisource/api
>
> (Just in case any of you PHP devs out there are looking for such a
> thing.)
>
> It's not very complete yet, but is functioning and I'm using it in a
> couple of projects. Would love any feedback or ideas for development!
>
> Thanks,
> sam
>
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[Wikisource-l] A new user group is born!

[Andrea Zanni]

The Tremendous Wiktionary User Group!
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/Tremendous_Wiktionary_User_Group

They say that the WIkisource Community UG has been an inspiration,
I'm really happy about it :-)

Aubrey
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Importing books from Project Gutenberg

[Andrea Zanni]

I think the idea is good,
but I would like to try that in my wikisource:
could you manage to take also the few italian books that PG has?
Thanks!

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:23 AM, Anika Born  wrote:

> corr1: [...] does not ha*ve*/show the scans, [...]
>
> Anika
>
> 2016-10-14 8:18 GMT+02:00 Anika Born :
>
>> Hy Sam,
>>
>> would be good, cause PG does not hat/show the scans,
>>
>> But
>>
>> as I remember there was/is a policy at de.ws to not use texts from other
>> projects (say: if there is text A in PG, there won't be a similar text A in
>> de.WS),
>>
>> cause at the time de.WS did use PG-texts... Google said WS is a mirror of
>> PG and all other (not PG)-texts were left out in Google-Search-Results as
>> well  The (small) visibility of WS got lost completely... That is the
>> reason, why there are no new projects on de-WS about texts that are
>> available in a (nearly) similar project
>>
>> (besides the effort: why spending so much time on a text that already is
>> avilable? - you'd have to proofread ist at least two times)
>>
>>
>> But that is this special German-thing.
>>
>>
>> What do the others think about it?
>> Anika
>>
>> 2016-10-14 3:20 GMT+02:00 Sam Wilson :
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I've been tinkering with an idea I've had for importing Project
>>> Gutenberg books into Wikisource: http://tools.wmflabs.org/pg2ws/
>>>
>>> The idea is that, if Wikidata makes a link between a PG ID number and a
>>> Wikisource Index page, then we can go through that Index page one page at a
>>> time, and copy the page's text from the PG book to the WS page.
>>>
>>> The interface so far isn't very brilliant, but I'm just trying to figure
>>> out if this is worthwhile or not. Basically, it's a matter of selecting the
>>> right chunk of text in the right-most text box (the full PG text) and
>>> hitting the button to move it left into the centre box. Then cleaning it up
>>> (manually and with the magic cleaning button) to make it match the image,
>>> and then uploading it to Wikisource.
>>>
>>> It's a bad tool though, because it doesn't handle the running header,
>>> and the copy-across button doesn't do nice things with {{hws}} etc. — not
>>> to mention all the other things it doesn't do.
>>>
>>> Anyway, just thought I'd mention it. :-) Anyone think this is an avenue
>>> worth exploring? Certainly I'd love to be able to say we've got everything
>>> PG has *and more*!
>>>
>>> —Sam
>>>
>>> PS changes made by this tool are all tagged as "OAuth CID: 638" —
>>>
>>> https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentCh
>>> anges&tagfilter=OAuth+CID%3A+638
>>>
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>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] IA Upload tool

[Andrea Zanni]

Alex's idea is very bold and I like it: my only fear is that it's too bold
and will never be implemented.

At the moment, we have not a proper alternative and independent environment
for working with scans: I wonder if that should be something related to
CropTool [1] or Commons in general.

What I would like to see *now* (for the good is better than the best, if
it's quicker)
is a working IA-Upload, with a good support for djvu (because the internet
archive's PDF is often very low quality).

>From what I understood from Tpt, the IA-upload tool should already do that,
but evidently there are issues at the moment.

For people who know how to run a script from command line,
a way to generate a djvu from IA is using Alex brollo's script [2]

Ideally, I would see this script integrated with the IA Upload tool, so we
can use the existing
IA > ia_upload tool > Commons > Wikisource
workflow, as usual. Many librarians are still using it.

Aubrey

[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/croptool/
[2] https://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Progetto:Bot/Programmi_
in_Python_per_i_bot/djvuCl.py


On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 2:48 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

>
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2016, at 07:36 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:
>
> I think that IA Upload tool is a critical step in the Wikisource workflow,
> and I wonder if maybe Sam (as a Community Tech employee) could dedicate
> some time to it.
> Tpt can't maintain everything by himself...
> For years, I've explained to *a lot* of GLAMs that uploading stuff on IA
> and then using Wikisource is the way to do things, and I'm sure this is
> the standard way in other places
> too.
>
>
> Yes, I agree: the IA-Commons-Wikisource workflow is a thing that should be
> encouraged no end! :-)
>
> As far as my work-programming time goes, you (I say 'you' but I just mean
> 'not-me', for CoI reasons) just need to get tickets onto the Community-Tech
> board, then I can perhaps look at them. Which basically means they have to
> contribute towards a Wishlist item.
>
> There's Wishlist #44: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120785 - *Implement
> an Internet Archive-like digitalization service.*
> I reckon it'd be great to be able to at least upload a PDF or Djvu with no
> text layer, and have it create one (either on the same file, or to upload a
> new derived file).
>
> —Sam
>
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] IA Upload tool

[Andrea Zanni]

I submitted an issue on GitHub:
https://github.com/Tpt/ia-upload/issues/13

I think that IA Upload tool is a critical step in the Wikisource workflow,
and I wonder if maybe Sam (as a Community Tech employee) could dedicate
some time to it.
Tpt can't maintain everything by himself...

For years, I've explained to *a lot* of GLAMs that uploading stuff on IA
and then using Wikisource is the way to do things, and I'm sure this is the
standard way in other places
too.

Maybe it's just me, but I really think it's a priority for our community
to have a functioning tool like this, which provides a good-quality image
from Archive.

What do you think? How should we solve the issue?
Is something that Tpt can solve or should we find another solution?

Andrea

On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 9:27 PM, Alex Brollo  wrote:

> Time to develop a wiki, excellent OCR (better. hOCR) multilingual service,
> isn't it?
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> 2016-09-26 15:04 GMT+02:00 Andrea Zanni :
>
>> (also, BUB is not currently working)
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Andrea Zanni 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> can I ask you if you are currently using IA Upload tool
>>> with IA books that *do not* have a Djvu file?
>>>
>>> It's few weeks I'm trying to upload this book
>>> https://archive.org/details/ComeRuinareLAutoritaImage
>>>
>>> with the tool, and in theory the IA-upload can now make the djvu by
>>> himself,
>>> but in this case it's not working.
>>>
>>> But maybe it's just this book.
>>> Did you have any issues?
>>>
>>> Andrea
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] IA Upload tool

[Andrea Zanni]

(also, BUB is not currently working)

On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Andrea Zanni 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> can I ask you if you are currently using IA Upload tool
> with IA books that *do not* have a Djvu file?
>
> It's few weeks I'm trying to upload this book
> https://archive.org/details/ComeRuinareLAutoritaImage
>
> with the tool, and in theory the IA-upload can now make the djvu by
> himself,
> but in this case it's not working.
>
> But maybe it's just this book.
> Did you have any issues?
>
> Andrea
>
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[Wikisource-l] IA Upload tool

[Andrea Zanni]

Hello everyone,
can I ask you if you are currently using IA Upload tool
with IA books that *do not* have a Djvu file?

It's few weeks I'm trying to upload this book
https://archive.org/details/ComeRuinareLAutoritaImage

with the tool, and in theory the IA-upload can now make the djvu by
himself,
but in this case it's not working.

But maybe it's just this book.
Did you have any issues?

Andrea
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Event: demo of the OCR tool for Indic languages

[Andrea Zanni]

Yes! Thanks.
People who have a Wikisource account on FB or other social media,
please share :-)

Aubrey

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Wikisource will be getting some visibility to the rest of the
> MediaWiki/Wikimedia community:
>
> Coming event: Wikisource OCR demo
> The *OCR tool for Indic language Wikisources*
>  will be demonstrated
> by Kaldari at the next MediaWiki CREDIT showcase
>  on Wednesday, 7
> September 2016 at 18:00 UTC
> .
> The session will be broadcast on Youtube (link TBA) and live discussion
> will take place on Etherpad 
> (side-channel discussion will be in #wikimedia-office on IRC).
>
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Community Tech new hire

[Andrea Zanni]

This is *fantastic* news!
I'm really happy for Sam and I think this will bring a lot of good things
for our community.

Of course I don't want to take any credit, but I think it's important to
remember that:
* I talked with Ryan Kaldari and Danny Horn (of Community Tech) a lot in
Berlin. Johann (also CT) was in  Wien e we all met him:
* they told me they were in need of another person in the team, and would
have liked a Wikisource person too
* they were very impressed by the response that came from Wikisource
community during the Community Survey

In the end, all this advocacy and commitment from the community (plus the
crucial fact that Sam is awesome) paid off: I think we should all be proud
of this.

Having a person like Sam inside the WMF is special and crucial.
He will not of course work just for Wikisource, but we have a real chance,
as a community, to have a fruitful and rich conversation and communication
between the community and the team, and we must not waste that.

Sam ***must pretend*** a thorough feedback from us as a community,
when he works on Wikisource stuff.
We can collaborate to put our requests and feedbacks in the right places,
and make sure that crucial problems are heard by the "top".

So, it's a lot of work from us :-)
We really need to to waste this opportunity.

Aubrey

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 4:22 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> Yes, I hope so too!! :-)
>
> Maybe we should create a column on the Wikisource board on which to put
> wishlist items? https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/1117/
>
>
> Oh, and for anyone who missed it, there's a great interview with tpt
> here:
> https://blog.wikimedia.de/2016/09/08/i-dont-have-to-
> find-tasks-tasks-are-coming-to-me-being-a-volunteer-
> developer-for-wikimedia-projects-an-interview-with-tpt/
>
>
> On Fri, 16 Sep 2016, at 03:22 PM, Thomas Tanon wrote:
> > Hello Sam,
> >
> > Congratulations! That's amazing! I really hope you will be able to keep
> > making the Wikisource tech backlog lower [1].
> >
> > Congrats again,
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> > [1] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/wikisource/
> >
> >
> > > Le 16 sept. 2016 à 05:23, Sam Wilson  a écrit :
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I've recently started working on the Community Tech team
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Tech at the Wikimedia
> > > Foundation. So I just wanted to say hi and that I'm really excited to
> be
> > > able to work on Wikimedia code full-time! :-)
> > >
> > > Community Tech is all about helping build tools that support
> > > contributors, and basically takes its work-list from the annual
> > > Community Wishlist Survey:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2015_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Results
> > >
> > > For the last couple of weeks I've been working on a tool to bring
> better
> > > OCR to indic-language Wikisources, via Google's Cloud Vision API:
> > > https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Google_OCR
> > >
> > > I'm not at all exclusively working on Wiksource stuff of course, not by
> > > a long shot. But that's still where my personal interest lies, and so
> if
> > > anyone's got any ideas about future software development that we need
> > > then I'm keen to help if I can. And this year's Wishlist Survey will be
> > > happening before too long, so get ready to list stuff there!
> > >
> > > Lastly, please be gentle with me as I try to figure out how to shift to
> > > life not-as-a-volunteer! (Although I'm still a volunteer too.) I'm
> > > trying very hard to be transparent and professional and not blur the
> > > various roles gets confusing though! :-)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Sam.
> > >
> > > --
> > > [[User:Samwilson]]
> > > [[User:SWilson (WMF)]]
> > >
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[Wikisource-l] Books and Wikidata, part 1

[Andrea Zanni]

After long discussions, me and Chiara Storti reviewed the "Pride and
Prejudice" item and some of it's related items.
We then wrote this *long* message here:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Books#Wikiproject_Books_2.0

It's the first attempt to find a solution for Wikidata and books,
especially regarding Wikisource.
It's not complete but it's a start.
I encourage you to take your time to read it.

As Sam Wilson is working on Ws-search, we could start populating some items
with the right statements.

Aubrey
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Parallel text, DoubleWiki

[Andrea Zanni]

I think the idea is brilliant,
but DoubleWiki is really old and the arrow is almost invisible,
so probably no one is using it.

When ContentTranslation came out I wondered for a while if that could be
applied also to Wikisource (for translations) or if part of it could be
used to match existing translations we already have on Wikisources...

Aubrey

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 7:01 AM,  wrote:

> very few improvements since it was created. :(
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/EDWI/history/master/
>
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 11:34 Lars Aronsson,  wrote:
>
>> If you look at this chapter of a novel in the French language,
>> https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Le_Voyageur_enchanté/Chapitre_1
>>
>> ...it has a link to the corresponding chapter in Russian
>> and next to the word "Русский" is a little arrow ⇔ or <=>
>>
>> If you click that arrow, you get the two texts placed side-by-side,
>> https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Le_Voyageur_enchanté/Chapitre_1?match=ru
>>
>> But there is no further matching. Paragraphs are not next to
>> each other. If I understand correctly, this is the "Double Wiki"
>> extension,
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DoubleWiki
>> https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:DoubleWiki_Extension
>>
>> Is anybody using this feature in a serious way? Does it have
>> any more details that can make the matching better? If both
>> texts had numbered paragraphs and sentences (something like the
>> Bible), it would in theory be possible to match them by number.
>>
>>
>> --
>>Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se)
>>Linköping
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Good news about CropTool

[Andrea Zanni]

This great tool allow a very simple "crop" of the illustration in a book
page,
and the upload of that copping as a standalone image.

This is crucial for exporting good ebooks with all the images and
illustrations.

Aubrey

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks a lot Alex, to make the necessary changes in javascript and help to
> deploy the gadget in Bengali Wikisource. You are awesome.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bodhisattwa
>
> On 16 August 2016 at 19:33, Alex Brollo  wrote:
>
>> CropTool now can crop & uoload into Commons illustrations from djvu and
>> pdf files. We are testing the tool at it.wikisource and we all agree that
>> it is now a surprisingly useful tool for daily wikisource work.
>> Please test it and give some feedback and some more suggestions to its
>> author, Danmichaelo (*thanks Dan!*)
>> The local gadget to call the tool from Commons::
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Gadget-CropTool.js
>> should be implemented into wikisource projects with some changes; see
>> it.source version:
>> https://it.wikisource.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Gadget-CropTool.js as an
>> example.
>>
>> Alex brollo
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Good news about CropTool

[Andrea Zanni]

This great tool allow a very simple "crop" of the illustration in a book
page,
and the upload of that copping as a standalone image.

This is crucial for exporting good ebooks with all the images and
illustrations.

Aubrey

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks a lot Alex, to make the necessary changes in javascript and help to
> deploy the gadget in Bengali Wikisource. You are awesome.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bodhisattwa
>
> On 16 August 2016 at 19:33, Alex Brollo  wrote:
>
>> CropTool now can crop & uoload into Commons illustrations from djvu and
>> pdf files. We are testing the tool at it.wikisource and we all agree that
>> it is now a surprisingly useful tool for daily wikisource work.
>> Please test it and give some feedback and some more suggestions to its
>> author, Danmichaelo (*thanks Dan!*)
>> The local gadget to call the tool from Commons::
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Gadget-CropTool.js
>> should be implemented into wikisource projects with some changes; see
>> it.source version:
>> https://it.wikisource.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Gadget-CropTool.js as an
>> example.
>>
>> Alex brollo
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikidata and mass import

[Andrea Zanni]

At the moment, Sam,
librarybase is a project that can be anything we want :-)

James Hare set it up because he wanted a place where to store bibliographic
informations,
but it's up to the community what to do with it.

I personally think that we should use Wikidata as much as possible,
and when we can't we could turn to librarybase for help.
So, I'm currently sticking with WD for the time being :-)

Andrea


On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016, at 03:44 AM, Thomas Tanon wrote:
> > > I wonder how the French Wikisource community solved it, for example.
> >
> > The easy way to solve it is probably before importing data related to a
> > Wikisource page check if an item already exists for this page (it's an
> > easy API call). Even if this raw import would have not been done, we
> > would have had to do it anyway, because of hand created items. Most bots
> > are used to do that before doing any item creation.
> >
>
> Yeah, this is very true. And not even just checking for the existence of
> an Item, a bot will have to check each statement it adds too. There is
> the matter of a reverse-check also, of making sure that everything that
> *does* have an Item at WD is supposed to.
>
> On a related note, does anyone know if this new Librarybase thing is
> going to be help to Wikisources?
> http://librarybase.wmflabs.org/wiki/Librarybase:Home
> Certainly, where possible, items there should point to Wikisources! :-)
> Which will be cool.
>
> —Sam
>
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