Re: [Wikitech-l] Disambiguation while editing

2009-09-30 Thread Tei 
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Lars Aronsson  wrote:
>
> In the edit box, when I type [[John Doe]], I want some chance to
> verify that I'm linking to the right article,

Humm?

I don't know the wikipedia, but on other wikis is like that:

Fire and forget.  You link [[Mr John Doe]].  Once is published you
notice is not a link, so you click, and make a redirection from [[Mr.
John Doe]] to the existing article [[Doc. John Doe]].

You can also make links that don't exist. Like in "english expression
'[[a pocket full of horses]]'", you don't need to link to articles
that exist.  On a wiki (I don't know wikipedia)  you don't have to
post correct or complete stuff. And having unpopulated links is a
invitation to others to create more articles or redirections.

I know Wikipedia has always been a strange wiki, so maybe thats not
how it works. I hate wikipedia a bit.

Also, the creation of a redirection from  [[Doc John Doe]] and [[John
Doe]] to  [[Dr John Doe]] is content. Maybe a dude could be googling
"Doc John" and find the redirection one. Is a happy "error" that these
redirections are created.



-- 
--
ℱin del ℳensaje.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Disambiguation while editing

2009-09-30 Thread Bence Damokos 
2009/10/1 Lars Aronsson 

>
> In the edit box, when I type [[John Doe]], I want some chance to
> verify that I'm linking to the right article, whether it is a
> disambiguation page, or by seeing the first sentence from that
> article.  I know I can "preview" my edit and click that link to
> see the page (or ctrl-click to make it appear in a new tab), but
> that method just seems sooo 2002.
>
> Is there some tool, button or gadget that does this trick? Perhaps
> some greasemonkey script?
>
> What it would do: From where the cursor stands in the edit box,
> search backwards for a "[[" and then forwards to the following "|"
> or "]]" which ever comes first (this covers the case that the
> cursor is inside the link brackets). Look up that article, show
> the first paragraph or 150 characters in a pop-up. If I click a
> link in the pop-up (a top link, or a disambig page), replace the
> link in the edit box so it points to that article.
>

The Navigation popups[1] has partially a functionality that does these: if
you select a link in the edit box it will display the first part of the
article in a popup; after saving if you hover over a disambig or redirect
link, you can choose to fix it with one click. I don't think it is possible
with it to do this fixing right from the edit box.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation_popups

Best regards,
Bence Damokos
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Disambiguation while editing

2009-09-30 Thread Steve Bennett 
On 10/1/09, Brion Vibber  wrote:
> I'm pretty sure the usability kids have something to this effect up
>  their sleeves, hiding somewhere.

Heh, I was wondering if this would start to become the new meme. "We
don't need to fix that gui, the usability team will take care of it!"

You're probably right, of course. I wonder what the best way to double
check these assumptions is.

Steve

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for editing template calls within pages

2009-09-30 Thread Aryeh Gregor 
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Brion Vibber  wrote:
> I don't see any point to inventing yet another markup language for
> internal data transfer; I'd much rather use something that:
>
> 1) is a known, implemented standard
> 2) has standard support in PHP
> 3) has standard support in JavaScript
>
> If you feel the need to describe the syntax, you've already lost time
> and gained nothing. :)

You've gained ease of use, because people don't have to bother
learning how to use their language's standard library for the
language, if it even has one.  Is XML reliably supported in
JavaScript?  And didn't we have problems with PHP on RHEL not
supporting the XML library that was supposed to be standard?

If you can describe the language with a one-line regex, you're using a
parser that's in *every* language out there, and that *every*
programmer should already be familiar with.  Not to mention they could
just copy-paste the regex even if they don't know regex, modulo some
slashes if their language prefers POSIX.  If it can be described by
one or two explode()s (like key=val;val;val), even better.

Of course, this can get ugly if you later want to add more
capabilities to the format, so JSON or YAML might make sense, but XML
is overboard IMO.  I'd use XML for text markup only, if that.

But no point in bikeshedding -- if this gets done, whoever does it
gets to decide the format.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for editing template calls within pages

2009-09-30 Thread Brion Vibber 
On 9/27/09 4:25 AM, Aryeh Gregor wrote:
> Depending on what features are added, exactly, I'd imagine a
> lighter-weight markup language would be more than sufficient.
> Something where you can describe the syntax in less than a page and
> write a correct implementation in half an hour or less would probably
> be good enough.  Like maybe just newline-delimited key=value pairs, or
> something like JSON at worst.

I don't see any point to inventing yet another markup language for 
internal data transfer; I'd much rather use something that:

1) is a known, implemented standard
2) has standard support in PHP
3) has standard support in JavaScript

If you feel the need to describe the syntax, you've already lost time 
and gained nothing. :)

-- brion

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for editing template calls within pages

2009-09-30 Thread Brion Vibber 
On 9/28/09 12:56 PM, Daniel Friesen wrote:
> On that note, what happened to Creole?
> I looked at the Creole wiki some time ago, and I remember a good deal of
> notes on how MediaWiki could handle Creole implementation.
>
> I haven't heard anything about creole on the wikitech list though.

Dead as a doornail; there was never a clear benefit or incentive for 
anyone to move to it. You just end up with different confusing squiggly 
characters, and to get there you've had either an ugly transition or 
some kind of bizarre translation that's likely to break.

If you're going to go through the pain, you should get some tangible 
benefit out of it.

-- brion

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Disambiguation while editing

2009-09-30 Thread Brion Vibber 
On 9/30/09 3:37 PM, Lars Aronsson wrote:
> What it would do: From where the cursor stands in the edit box,
> search backwards for a "[[" and then forwards to the following "|"
> or "]]" which ever comes first (this covers the case that the
> cursor is inside the link brackets). Look up that article, show
> the first paragraph or 150 characters in a pop-up. If I click a
> link in the pop-up (a top link, or a disambig page), replace the
> link in the edit box so it points to that article.

I'm pretty sure the usability kids have something to this effect up 
their sleeves, hiding somewhere.

-- brion

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Disambiguation while editing

2009-09-30 Thread Steve Bennett 
On 10/1/09, Lars Aronsson  wrote:
>  What it would do: From where the cursor stands in the edit box,
>  search backwards for a "[[" and then forwards to the following "|"
>  or "]]" which ever comes first (this covers the case that the
>  cursor is inside the link brackets). Look up that article, show
>  the first paragraph or 150 characters in a pop-up. If I click a
>  link in the pop-up (a top link, or a disambig page), replace the
>  link in the edit box so it points to that article.

Sounds very well described. Would be useful to a lot of people, so if
it gets developed, maybe it should be deployed in the sitewide
javascript?

Steve

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[Wikitech-l] Disambiguation while editing

2009-09-30 Thread Lars Aronsson 

In the edit box, when I type [[John Doe]], I want some chance to 
verify that I'm linking to the right article, whether it is a 
disambiguation page, or by seeing the first sentence from that 
article.  I know I can "preview" my edit and click that link to 
see the page (or ctrl-click to make it appear in a new tab), but 
that method just seems sooo 2002.

Is there some tool, button or gadget that does this trick? Perhaps 
some greasemonkey script?

What it would do: From where the cursor stands in the edit box, 
search backwards for a "[[" and then forwards to the following "|" 
or "]]" which ever comes first (this covers the case that the 
cursor is inside the link brackets). Look up that article, show 
the first paragraph or 150 characters in a pop-up. If I click a 
link in the pop-up (a top link, or a disambig page), replace the 
link in the edit box so it points to that article.


-- 
  Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se)
  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se

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[Wikitech-l] Off-topic: Anyone have a Google Wave invite?

2009-09-30 Thread Thomas Dalton 
I apologise for the slightly off-topic email, but does anyone have any
Google Wave invites to hand out? If so, I would be very interested in
getting one...

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[Wikitech-l] Historical text highlighting wiki gadget

2009-09-30 Thread Aaron L Halfaker 
I'm sure many of you caught the news
article(http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/08/wikitrust/) about
Adler and Alfaro's research(http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/1242572.1242608)
in wiki trustability being applied to live Wikipedia.  It just so
happens that I have been working on a similar problem from a completely
different direction during my research and I'm ready to share this work
with the community. I have designed and implemented a user script
modification that I call HAPPI and I'm currently running a
non-profit/academic analysis of its usefulness. The script adds a couple
of new controls that will appear over the edit pane.  These controls
will allow you to toggle the highlighting of wiki text while you edit
it.  If you'd like to give it a try, please see the documentation page
and consent form for more information.

Screenshot:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/37/HAPPI_example.png

Documentation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:EpochFail/HAPPI
Consent form: http://wikipedia.grouplens.org/HAPPI/consent

-Aaron Halfaker
Grouplens Research
University of Minnesota


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Re: [Wikitech-l] JS2 design (was Re: Working towards branching MediaWiki 1.16)

2009-09-30 Thread Aryeh Gregor 
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Michael Dale  wrote:
> Has anyone done any scalability studies into minimal php @readfile
> script vs apache serving the file. Obviously apache will server the file
> a lot faster but a question I have is at what file size does it saturate
> disk reads as opposed to saturated CPU?

It will never be disk-bound unless the site is tiny and/or has too
little RAM.  The files can be expected to remain in the page cache
perpetually as long as there's a constant stream of requests coming
in.  If the site is tiny, performance isn't a big issue (at least not
for the site operators).  If the server has so little free RAM that a
file that's being read every few minutes and is under a megabyte in
size is consistently evicted from the cache, then you have bigger
problems to worry about.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] JS2 design (was Re: Working towards branching MediaWiki 1.16)

2009-09-30 Thread Michael Dale 
Aryeh Gregor wrote:
> Also remember the possibility that sysops will want to include these
> scripts (conditionally or unconditionally) from MediaWiki:Common.js or
> such.  Look at the top of
> , which imports
> specific scripts only on edit/preview/upload; only on watchlist view;
> only for sysops; only for IE6; and possibly others.  It also imports
> Wikiminiatlas unconditionally, it seems.  I don't see offhand how
> sysop-created server-side conditional includes could be handled, but
> it's worth considering at least unconditional includes, since sysops
> might want to split code across multiple pages for ease of editing.
>   
This highlights the complexity of managing all javascript dependences on 
the server side... If possible the script-loader should dynamically 
handle these requests. For wikimedia its behind a squid proxy so should 
not be too bad. For small wikis we could setup a dedicated entry point 
that could first check the file cache key before loading all 
webstart.php, parsing javascript classes and all the other costly 
mediaWIki web engine stuff.

Has anyone done any scalability studies into minimal php @readfile 
script vs apache serving the file. Obviously apache will server the file 
a lot faster but a question I have is at what file size does it saturate 
disk reads as opposed to saturated CPU?

--michael


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Re: [Wikitech-l] JS2 design (was Re: Working towards branching MediaWiki 1.16)

2009-09-30 Thread Aryeh Gregor 
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 1:21 AM, Tim Starling  wrote:
> * Platonides mentions the case of power-users with tens of scripts loaded via
> gadgets or user JS with importScript().

Also remember the possibility that sysops will want to include these
scripts (conditionally or unconditionally) from MediaWiki:Common.js or
such.  Look at the top of
, which imports
specific scripts only on edit/preview/upload; only on watchlist view;
only for sysops; only for IE6; and possibly others.  It also imports
Wikiminiatlas unconditionally, it seems.  I don't see offhand how
sysop-created server-side conditional includes could be handled, but
it's worth considering at least unconditional includes, since sysops
might want to split code across multiple pages for ease of editing.

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