Re: [Wikitech-l] Actions and Special Pages
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 19:39, Krinkle krinklem...@gmail.com wrote:
Op 8 apr 2011, om 01:11 heeft MZMcBride het volgende geschreven:
I mostly agree with you, I think, but you seem to be side-stepping the
linking issue. The fact that it's currently quite ugly to make an
edit link
or a protect link is one of the biggest arguments in favor of using
Special
pages.
Assuming all actions were standardized to use the ?action=
parameter, what
do you think about an {{#action:}} parser function? It would allow for
something like [[{{#action:move|Main Page}}]]. Does this seem
reasonable? If
so, I think a page on MediaWiki with some transition information and
a more
in-depth look at what's actually needed to get to a consistent state
would
be a good next step (assuming such a page doesn't exist already).
Thoughts?
MZMcBride
Indeed, the linking issue is one of the things action-parameters does
not fix.
But like you say, those could be solved in another way.
I like the {{#action}} idea. I'm not sure [[ and ]] can or should
still be needed though.
--
Krinkle
This reminds me of Bug 14892 (Allow external links in edit summary and
log reason):
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14892
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Actions and Special Pages
Come to think of it, it is probably even cleaner not to have any default action. action=view is pretty clean IMO, cleaner than having view as the only special case where no action or special page is needed. Conceptually it is just another action. On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 1:36 AM, Platonides platoni...@gmail.com wrote: I also think it's cleaner to make move an action than edit a Special page. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Actions and Special Pages
I also think it's cleaner to make move an action than edit a Special page. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Actions and Special Pages
Op 5 apr 2011, om 10:31 heeft Bryan Tong Minh het volgende geschreven: On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 4:41 AM, Daniel Friesen li...@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote: Personally, I like tacking on ?action=edit and especially purge. Prefixing Special:Edit/ doesn't sound nice to me. I know I fixed the issues with things like Special:Movepage not sharing the same UI tabs as the rest of the actions. I'm +1 with you on this. I don't have any convincing arguments against either way, but action links just look nicer to me. Without a doubt I'm +1 on this as well (either one of the other). I'm in favour of action=. * Easier to append to a url (like Daniel mentioned) * title will actually be the title of the article and not of the special page (imho an important point, especially for gadgets. I dont even wanna remember how I had to solve the problem to use css/js on a particular 'title' and had to extract it from page name and split by slash for it to apply to MovePage as well. brrr) * wgActionPaths are cool - /wiki/edit/Foo /wiki/Special:Move/Foo ? eh... no. * because the action parameter is one of the oldest parameters around (feelin' nostaligic anyone ?) * SpecialPages (imho) are not supposed to be bound to 1 title in particular (unlike MovePage and Undelete currently do). Just my 2cents, -- Krinkle ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Actions and Special Pages
Krinkle wrote:
Op 5 apr 2011, om 10:31 heeft Bryan Tong Minh het volgende geschreven:
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 4:41 AM, Daniel Friesen
li...@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote:
Personally, I like tacking on ?action=edit and especially purge. Prefixing
Special:Edit/ doesn't sound nice to me. I know I fixed the issues with
things like Special:Movepage not sharing the same UI tabs as the rest of
the actions.
I'm +1 with you on this. I don't have any convincing arguments against
either way, but action links just look nicer to me.
Without a doubt I'm +1 on this as well (either one of the other).
I mostly agree with you, I think, but you seem to be side-stepping the
linking issue. The fact that it's currently quite ugly to make an edit link
or a protect link is one of the biggest arguments in favor of using Special
pages.
Assuming all actions were standardized to use the ?action= parameter, what
do you think about an {{#action:}} parser function? It would allow for
something like [[{{#action:move|Main Page}}]]. Does this seem reasonable? If
so, I think a page on MediaWiki with some transition information and a more
in-depth look at what's actually needed to get to a consistent state would
be a good next step (assuming such a page doesn't exist already). Thoughts?
MZMcBride
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Actions and Special Pages
Op 8 apr 2011, om 01:11 heeft MZMcBride het volgende geschreven:
Krinkle wrote:
Op 5 apr 2011, om 10:31 heeft Bryan Tong Minh het volgende
geschreven:
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 4:41 AM, Daniel Friesen
li...@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote:
Personally, I like tacking on ?action=edit and especially purge.
Prefixing
Special:Edit/ doesn't sound nice to me. I know I fixed the issues
with
things like Special:Movepage not sharing the same UI tabs as the
rest of
the actions.
I'm +1 with you on this. I don't have any convincing arguments
against
either way, but action links just look nicer to me.
Without a doubt I'm +1 on this as well (either one of the other).
I mostly agree with you, I think, but you seem to be side-stepping the
linking issue. The fact that it's currently quite ugly to make an
edit link
or a protect link is one of the biggest arguments in favor of using
Special
pages.
Assuming all actions were standardized to use the ?action=
parameter, what
do you think about an {{#action:}} parser function? It would allow for
something like [[{{#action:move|Main Page}}]]. Does this seem
reasonable? If
so, I think a page on MediaWiki with some transition information and
a more
in-depth look at what's actually needed to get to a consistent state
would
be a good next step (assuming such a page doesn't exist already).
Thoughts?
MZMcBride
Indeed, the linking issue is one of the things action-parameters does
not fix.
But like you say, those could be solved in another way.
I like the {{#action}} idea. I'm not sure [[ and ]] can or should
still be needed though.
--
Krinkle
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Actions and Special Pages
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 4:41 AM, Daniel Friesen li...@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote: Personally, I like tacking on ?action=edit and especially purge. Prefixing Special:Edit/ doesn't sound nice to me. I know I fixed the issues with things like Special:Movepage not sharing the same UI tabs as the rest of the actions. I'm +1 with you on this. I don't have any convincing arguments against either way, but action links just look nicer to me. Bryan ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Actions and Special Pages
On 04/04/2011 11:28 PM, Happy-melon wrote: For either case in the backend I would think we'd want to create an ActionPage base class and an EditActionPage from that, which looks internally rather like a SpecialPage construct, might even subclass it. We had this discussion in January. That's basically what I suggested, but there are some complications. http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2011-January/051041.html -- Tim Starling ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Actions and Special Pages
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Happy-melon happy-me...@live.com wrote: If people think it would be better as a special page we'd make http://foo.example.com/w/index.php?title=Baraction=edit a hard redirect to Special:Edit/Bar; that has the significant advantage of being able to be formed as an internal link. I've always thought this was the best way to do things. Be careful about overusing short URLs, though -- the only reason robots don't spider /w/index.php?title=Fooaction=edit right now is because it starts with /w/ instead of /wiki/. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Actions and Special Pages
Aryeh Gregor wrote: On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Happy-melon happy-me...@live.com wrote: If people think it would be better as a special page we'd make http://foo.example.com/w/index.php?title=Baraction=edit a hard redirect to Special:Edit/Bar; that has the significant advantage of being able to be formed as an internal link. I've always thought this was the best way to do things. Be careful about overusing short URLs, though -- the only reason robots don't spider /w/index.php?title=Fooaction=edit right now is because it starts with /w/ instead of /wiki/. I can't think of a reason that any of the Special namespace needs to be indexed. Most of it is already marked noindex in the meta tags, as far as I remember. Additional explicit exclusion in a robots.txt file is always a good idea, though. Some auto-generation of a robots.txt file might be nice (WordPress does this). It's easy enough to exclude based on the prefix Special:, but it's the localizations that ruin everything. MZMcBride ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Actions and Special Pages
On 11-04-04 08:12 PM, MZMcBride wrote: Aryeh Gregor wrote: On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Happy-melonhappy-me...@live.com wrote: If people think it would be better as a special page we'd make http://foo.example.com/w/index.php?title=Baraction=edit a hard redirect to Special:Edit/Bar; that has the significant advantage of being able to be formed as an internal link. I've always thought this was the best way to do things. Be careful about overusing short URLs, though -- the only reason robots don't spider /w/index.php?title=Fooaction=edit right now is because it starts with /w/ instead of /wiki/. I can't think of a reason that any of the Special namespace needs to be indexed. Most of it is already marked noindex in the meta tags, as far as I remember. Additional explicit exclusion in a robots.txt file is always a good idea, though. Some auto-generation of a robots.txt file might be nice (WordPress does this). It's easy enough to exclude based on the prefix Special:, but it's the localizations that ruin everything. MZMcBride I don't really think that's a good reason to preclude being able to create special page based content. Eg: A forum extension that uses special pages. Our own Special:Code, etc... if we chose to allow those to be indexed. Side note, why don't we allow indexing of Allpages? That sounds like a sane way for Google to find all the pages on a small growing wiki that hasn't setup the best linking yet or generated an xml sitemap. What IS so evil about actions? Besides the implementation details which are just that... something we can make better. In fact something we could potentially make work better than SpecialPages would in this context. Personally, I like tacking on ?action=edit and especially purge. Prefixing Special:Edit/ doesn't sound nice to me. I know I fixed the issues with things like Special:Movepage not sharing the same UI tabs as the rest of the actions. ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name] -- ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name] ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Actions and Special Pages
Daniel Friesen wrote:
What IS so evil about actions? Besides the implementation details
which are just that... something we can make better. In fact something
we could potentially make work better than SpecialPages would in this
context.
Personally, I like tacking on ?action=edit and especially purge.
Prefixing Special:Edit/ doesn't sound nice to me.
I know I fixed the issues with things like Special:Movepage not sharing
the same UI tabs as the rest of the actions.
I tack on purge/edit parameters fairly often as well. The biggest issue with
parameters versus Special pages is that one is easily internally linkable
currently (minus the pl_title restriction) and the other is not. There are
_countless_ uses of span class=plainlinks[{{fullurl:foo|action=edit}}
bar]/span right now which is unacceptably ugly. There needs to be a
cleaner syntax, particularly for edit links, but for most other actions as
well. Personally, I don't really care what syntax is chosen, it just needs
to be consistent.
MZMcBride
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