Re: [WISPA] billable fee schedule
Some of the rates I posted assumed the installer was already on site for an installation. I'm just need to consider trouble calls so I revised the schedule below. I used to give $25 per service call but the problem I ran into was that they would go out to a customer's find nothing or perhaps something simple such as a loose cable, then they get paid for doing little or nothing. At that point, I'd rather do it myself and keep the money. You may have a point about paying mileage or a separate truck roll fee. Either way, I have guys more than willing to do it for the amounts below but I truly dont want to take advantage of anyone which is why I'm asking. A flat "one size fits all" rate doesnt seem fair to the company so I'm trying to come up with a more specific rate schedule based on the expected time to do the job. $30 – Service call to replace ethernet cable on customer’s premises (normal run). $20 – Service call to replace radio/antenna performed on site at customer’s premises. $10 – Service call to replace POE, and/or power supply performed on site at customer’s premises. $10 – Uninstall canceled customer (remove radio and mount). $10 – Site survey performed on site at prospective customer’s premises. $5 – NTF. i.e. reset radio/router. Note: May be billable to customer! $5 – Extended area trip fee (Within KyWiFi service area but outside of Montgomery County). WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] billable fee schedule
I think most of the items you are proposing to pay less than $30 dollars for are too cheap. I wouldn't want to do those things for those amounts. Especially if I have to drive to the customer's home to do them. John RickG wrote: > OK, back to my original question: Does anyone have a fee schedule for > their installer/repair subcontractors? > I'm trying to cover every possible scenario. Here is what I've put together: > > Subcontractor Fee Schedule > $75 – Standard installation of KyWiFi customer premises equipment > according to manufacturer’s instructions including install mount to an > outside wall, radio/antenna installation, transmitter configuration, > drilling through one exterior wall and one interior wall or floor, > installation of up to 150’ of cable with wall/floor bushings, > termination to one computer or router, configuration of one router and > one PC. > $15 – Extended cable run up to 300’. > $30 – Service call to replace cable performed on site at customer’s premises. > $20 – Service call to replace radio/antenna performed on site at > customer’s premises. > $10 – Service call to replace POE, and/or power supply performed on > site at customer’s premises. > $5 – NTF. i.e. reset radio/router. Note: May be billable to customer! > $5 – Anti-virus/Adware software download, installation, configuration > and customer orientation. > $5 – Installation no show, must wait 30 minutes and must attempt to > call customer twice. > $5 – Site survey performed on site at prospective customer’s premises. > $5 – Extended area trip fee (outside of Montgomery County). > $10/hour for any services not described above. > $25 – Bonus for 10 or more customer installations performed in a one > week (Saturday - Sunday) period. > > -RickG > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 11:22 AM, RickG wrote: > >> It sounds like you are a "character"! >> I'm glad your marketing and service efforts are paying off. >> I actually have had much the same results. >> Good work and Thanks! >> -RickG >> >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Mike wrote: >> >>> Actually, since they are a cellular company and can have unlimited >>> bandwidth, they are faster right now. That will change as they build >>> out. The customer money stays local instead of going out of town >>> when they "shop" with me. >>> >>> I write a weekly column for the paper so am well known in the area; >>> that helps a bunch. >>> >>> I drive a trailer to local events and set up free WiFi. That has >>> certainly raised awareness. >>> >>> I have brought broadband to people who absolutely couldn't get it any >>> other way. National statistics will show there is a definite boost >>> to property value if a household is able to get high speed >>> Internet. I've actually had people make a house buying decision on >>> whether we could bring them broadband or not. >>> >>> I have a flashing light I can turn on placed on 2 of the towers. A >>> site survey begins by a phone conversation, turning on the light and >>> "can you see it now?" That has really helped and raised awareness. >>> >>> Superior customer service. Money stays locally. Dealing with a >>> local character. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> At 06:09 PM 10/13/2009, you wrote: >>> Is it a comparable service? What do you give versus what they give? On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Mike wrote: > Rick: > > The competition that came at me is 39.00. Mine, if you pay promptly > is 42.50. They intentionally came in under me. Like I've said, only > 2 have jumped ship. > > At 11:08 AM 10/13/2009, you wrote: > >> But, do the ones who have a choice for cheaper service and out of >> contract stay with you? >> -RickG >> >> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Mike wrote: >> >>> Similar to your example of perceived value, we extract a capital fee >>> up front when putting on a new customer. My accountant described it >>> like joining a health club, you get to use the equipment but don't >>> get to take it home. The fee is the real cost of installing. Easy >>> ones are 150 bucks. Others vary according to difficulty. So they >>> buy in to the whole thing from the get go. >>> >>> Our rates are 45.00. If you pay on time, from email billing, you >>> take off 2.50 and its 42.50. >>> >>> I think I have a very loyal bunch of customers. I didn't know what >>> to expect when the two year contracts started expiring, but MOST have >>> stayed with us. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> At 09:47 PM 10/12/2009, you wrote: >>> Mike, Since I began working, even as a teenager, I worked 60-80 hours a week giving customers the best I could. I'm now 49 and still work at least that many hours. At least now, I own my company and do it for myself. In fact, before I owned my own compa
Re: [WISPA] FreeRadius / Accounting data
http://projects.asn.pl/ara/ Not the "best" product out there and a little outdated but worked for us in the past. --Nick On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Mark McElvy wrote: > I am running FreeRadius and FreeSide usinf PPPoE. Freeside currently > does not give me the reports I need for my accounting data. When I run a > report, it gives you details on each record but does not give you totals > for each user. I would like to generate a report that would give me > upload/download totals for a given time period. Anyone know of software > I can run against the FreeRadius accounting data to get this info or > have any Freeside customization that would like to share to do this? > > > > I am looking at bitcap bill if you have not guessed;) > > > > Mark McElvy > AccuBak Data Systems, Inc. > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Nick Huanca WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] billable fee schedule
Unless you are paying mileage or providing a vehicle, some of those #'s are too low. When I was a contractor, I would not drive to a site for less than $15 within a 25 mile radius of the shop. RickG wrote: OK, back to my original question: Does anyone have a fee schedule for their installer/repair subcontractors? I'm trying to cover every possible scenario. Here is what I've put together: Subcontractor Fee Schedule $75 – Standard installation of KyWiFi customer premises equipment according to manufacturer’s instructions including install mount to an outside wall, radio/antenna installation, transmitter configuration, drilling through one exterior wall and one interior wall or floor, installation of up to 150’ of cable with wall/floor bushings, termination to one computer or router, configuration of one router and one PC. $15 – Extended cable run up to 300’. $30 – Service call to replace cable performed on site at customer’s premises. $20 – Service call to replace radio/antenna performed on site at customer’s premises. $10 – Service call to replace POE, and/or power supply performed on site at customer’s premises. $5 – NTF. i.e. reset radio/router. Note: May be billable to customer! $5 – Anti-virus/Adware software download, installation, configuration and customer orientation. $5 – Installation no show, must wait 30 minutes and must attempt to call customer twice. $5 – Site survey performed on site at prospective customer’s premises. $5 – Extended area trip fee (outside of Montgomery County). $10/hour for any services not described above. $25 – Bonus for 10 or more customer installations performed in a one week (Saturday - Sunday) period. -RickG On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 11:22 AM, RickG wrote: It sounds like you are a "character"! I'm glad your marketing and service efforts are paying off. I actually have had much the same results. Good work and Thanks! -RickG On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Mike wrote: Actually, since they are a cellular company and can have unlimited bandwidth, they are faster right now. That will change as they build out. The customer money stays local instead of going out of town when they "shop" with me. I write a weekly column for the paper so am well known in the area; that helps a bunch. I drive a trailer to local events and set up free WiFi. That has certainly raised awareness. I have brought broadband to people who absolutely couldn't get it any other way. National statistics will show there is a definite boost to property value if a household is able to get high speed Internet. I've actually had people make a house buying decision on whether we could bring them broadband or not. I have a flashing light I can turn on placed on 2 of the towers. A site survey begins by a phone conversation, turning on the light and "can you see it now?" That has really helped and raised awareness. Superior customer service. Money stays locally. Dealing with a local character. Mike At 06:09 PM 10/13/2009, you wrote: Is it a comparable service? What do you give versus what they give? On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Mike wrote: Rick: The competition that came at me is 39.00. Mine, if you pay promptly is 42.50. They intentionally came in under me. Like I've said, only 2 have jumped ship. At 11:08 AM 10/13/2009, you wrote: But, do the ones who have a choice for cheaper service and out of contract stay with you? -RickG On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Mike wrote: Similar to your example of perceived value, we extract a capital fee up front when putting on a new customer. My accountant described it like joining a health club, you get to use the equipment but don't get to take it home. The fee is the real cost of installing. Easy ones are 150 bucks. Others vary according to difficulty. So they buy in to the whole thing from the get go. Our rates are 45.00. If you pay on time, from email billing, you take off 2.50 and its 42.50. I think I have a very loyal bunch of customers. I didn't know what to expect when the two year contracts started expiring, but MOST have stayed with us. Best Regards, Mike At 09:47 PM 10/12/2009, you wrote: Mike, Since I began working, even as a teenager, I worked 60-80 hours a week giving customers the best I could. I'm now 49 and still work at least that many hours. At least now, I own my company and do it for myself. In fact, before I owned my own company my reputation was "Mr.Service". Heck, I've watched the sun rise from a customers computers! People have always told me I have a great work ethic. I have always thought - give'em great service and they'll stick. It's not true! Given the opportunity, for less than $5/month they WILL switch without even an apology! So, dont get me wrong, I still give great service but have realized I ha
Re: [WISPA] billable fee schedule
OK, back to my original question: Does anyone have a fee schedule for their installer/repair subcontractors? I'm trying to cover every possible scenario. Here is what I've put together: Subcontractor Fee Schedule $75 – Standard installation of KyWiFi customer premises equipment according to manufacturer’s instructions including install mount to an outside wall, radio/antenna installation, transmitter configuration, drilling through one exterior wall and one interior wall or floor, installation of up to 150’ of cable with wall/floor bushings, termination to one computer or router, configuration of one router and one PC. $15 – Extended cable run up to 300’. $30 – Service call to replace cable performed on site at customer’s premises. $20 – Service call to replace radio/antenna performed on site at customer’s premises. $10 – Service call to replace POE, and/or power supply performed on site at customer’s premises. $5 – NTF. i.e. reset radio/router. Note: May be billable to customer! $5 – Anti-virus/Adware software download, installation, configuration and customer orientation. $5 – Installation no show, must wait 30 minutes and must attempt to call customer twice. $5 – Site survey performed on site at prospective customer’s premises. $5 – Extended area trip fee (outside of Montgomery County). $10/hour for any services not described above. $25 – Bonus for 10 or more customer installations performed in a one week (Saturday - Sunday) period. -RickG On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 11:22 AM, RickG wrote: > It sounds like you are a "character"! > I'm glad your marketing and service efforts are paying off. > I actually have had much the same results. > Good work and Thanks! > -RickG > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Mike wrote: >> Actually, since they are a cellular company and can have unlimited >> bandwidth, they are faster right now. That will change as they build >> out. The customer money stays local instead of going out of town >> when they "shop" with me. >> >> I write a weekly column for the paper so am well known in the area; >> that helps a bunch. >> >> I drive a trailer to local events and set up free WiFi. That has >> certainly raised awareness. >> >> I have brought broadband to people who absolutely couldn't get it any >> other way. National statistics will show there is a definite boost >> to property value if a household is able to get high speed >> Internet. I've actually had people make a house buying decision on >> whether we could bring them broadband or not. >> >> I have a flashing light I can turn on placed on 2 of the towers. A >> site survey begins by a phone conversation, turning on the light and >> "can you see it now?" That has really helped and raised awareness. >> >> Superior customer service. Money stays locally. Dealing with a >> local character. >> >> Mike >> >> At 06:09 PM 10/13/2009, you wrote: >>>Is it a comparable service? What do you give versus what they give? >>> >>>On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Mike wrote: >>> > Rick: >>> > >>> > The competition that came at me is 39.00. Mine, if you pay promptly >>> > is 42.50. They intentionally came in under me. Like I've said, only >>> > 2 have jumped ship. >>> > >>> > At 11:08 AM 10/13/2009, you wrote: >>> >>But, do the ones who have a choice for cheaper service and out of >>> >>contract stay with you? >>> >>-RickG >>> >> >>> >>On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Mike wrote: >>> >> > Similar to your example of perceived value, we extract a capital fee >>> >> > up front when putting on a new customer. My accountant described it >>> >> > like joining a health club, you get to use the equipment but don't >>> >> > get to take it home. The fee is the real cost of installing. Easy >>> >> > ones are 150 bucks. Others vary according to difficulty. So they >>> >> > buy in to the whole thing from the get go. >>> >> > >>> >> > Our rates are 45.00. If you pay on time, from email billing, you >>> >> > take off 2.50 and its 42.50. >>> >> > >>> >> > I think I have a very loyal bunch of customers. I didn't know what >>> >> > to expect when the two year contracts started expiring, but MOST have >>> >> > stayed with us. >>> >> > >>> >> > Best Regards, >>> >> > >>> >> > Mike >>> >> > >>> >> > At 09:47 PM 10/12/2009, you wrote: >>> >> >>Mike, >>> >> >> >>> >> >>Since I began working, even as a teenager, I worked 60-80 hours a week >>> >> >>giving customers the best I could. I'm now 49 and still work at least >>> >> >>that many hours. At least now, I own my company and do it for myself. >>> >> >>In fact, before I owned my own company my reputation was "Mr.Service". >>> >> >>Heck, I've watched the sun rise from a customers computers! People >>> >> >>have always told me I have a great work ethic. I have always thought - >>> >> >>give'em great service and they'll stick. It's not true! Given the >>> >> >>opportunity, for less than $5/month they WILL switch without even an >>> >> >>apology! >>> >> >>So, dont get me wrong, I still give great s
Re: [WISPA] billable fee schedule
It sounds like you are a "character"! I'm glad your marketing and service efforts are paying off. I actually have had much the same results. Good work and Thanks! -RickG On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Mike wrote: > Actually, since they are a cellular company and can have unlimited > bandwidth, they are faster right now. That will change as they build > out. The customer money stays local instead of going out of town > when they "shop" with me. > > I write a weekly column for the paper so am well known in the area; > that helps a bunch. > > I drive a trailer to local events and set up free WiFi. That has > certainly raised awareness. > > I have brought broadband to people who absolutely couldn't get it any > other way. National statistics will show there is a definite boost > to property value if a household is able to get high speed > Internet. I've actually had people make a house buying decision on > whether we could bring them broadband or not. > > I have a flashing light I can turn on placed on 2 of the towers. A > site survey begins by a phone conversation, turning on the light and > "can you see it now?" That has really helped and raised awareness. > > Superior customer service. Money stays locally. Dealing with a > local character. > > Mike > > At 06:09 PM 10/13/2009, you wrote: >>Is it a comparable service? What do you give versus what they give? >> >>On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Mike wrote: >> > Rick: >> > >> > The competition that came at me is 39.00. Mine, if you pay promptly >> > is 42.50. They intentionally came in under me. Like I've said, only >> > 2 have jumped ship. >> > >> > At 11:08 AM 10/13/2009, you wrote: >> >>But, do the ones who have a choice for cheaper service and out of >> >>contract stay with you? >> >>-RickG >> >> >> >>On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Mike wrote: >> >> > Similar to your example of perceived value, we extract a capital fee >> >> > up front when putting on a new customer. My accountant described it >> >> > like joining a health club, you get to use the equipment but don't >> >> > get to take it home. The fee is the real cost of installing. Easy >> >> > ones are 150 bucks. Others vary according to difficulty. So they >> >> > buy in to the whole thing from the get go. >> >> > >> >> > Our rates are 45.00. If you pay on time, from email billing, you >> >> > take off 2.50 and its 42.50. >> >> > >> >> > I think I have a very loyal bunch of customers. I didn't know what >> >> > to expect when the two year contracts started expiring, but MOST have >> >> > stayed with us. >> >> > >> >> > Best Regards, >> >> > >> >> > Mike >> >> > >> >> > At 09:47 PM 10/12/2009, you wrote: >> >> >>Mike, >> >> >> >> >> >>Since I began working, even as a teenager, I worked 60-80 hours a week >> >> >>giving customers the best I could. I'm now 49 and still work at least >> >> >>that many hours. At least now, I own my company and do it for myself. >> >> >>In fact, before I owned my own company my reputation was "Mr.Service". >> >> >>Heck, I've watched the sun rise from a customers computers! People >> >> >>have always told me I have a great work ethic. I have always thought - >> >> >>give'em great service and they'll stick. It's not true! Given the >> >> >>opportunity, for less than $5/month they WILL switch without even an >> >> >>apology! >> >> >>So, dont get me wrong, I still give great service but have realized I >> >> >>have previously given too much. All I did was take a lot of time away >> >> >>from my family to help customers that only appreciate it at the time. >> >> >>Again, I'm not saying dont give great service - what I am saying is >> >> >>dont give away the store. Maybe you can afford it but every move you >> >> >>make should be profitable, otherwise you will end up out of business >> >> >>or in a poor mental state from work burnout. Have you ever looked at >> >> >>the competition knowing you give better service yet they are still >> >> >>winning? In fact, I've seen more people respect the competition >> >> >>because they are higher priced or charge for everything. It is truly a >> >> >>mindset. I believe there is a balance that must constantly be >> >> >>maintained. Which is why I asked the question, billable or not? >> >> >>Again, your business model may be different but using you scenario >> >> >>below is difficult to achieve in mine. Perhaps your monthly rates are >> >> >>higher, installation higher, or your bottom line is not as important >> >> >>to you? Somebody always has to pay the piper. Most people understand >> >> >>capitolism and the need to be profitable so you can pay the bills. >> >> >>What good is it to go out of business just so they can go back to dial >> >> >>up? >> >> >>Furthermore, I have found another interesting outcome by giving work >> >> >>away - other customers either come to expect it or get jealous. >> >> >>What is really expected by the customers who give you their hard >> >> >>earned money is a good product for what they
Re: [WISPA] billable fee schedule
We're in Southern Ohio and I've always put low voltage cable just under the sod. Time Warner does the same, they use a small slitter that slits the sod and runs the cable just under it for running to homes with underground utilities. We have no gophers, just ground hogs but still haven't had any issues with broken or chewed cables at all. Ever. We also use gel filled flooded cable on our installs, it's pretty tough stuff. It all depends on where you live. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] billable fee schedule It's 18" everywhere, that's NEC rules. I tell people what code is then let them handle the ditch... Also, we NEVER direct bury anymore. Eventually the gophers or something will get it, and you just can't splice this cable either (at least *I* won't). We put all underground in conduit nowadays. Life is sooo much better this way. marlon - Original Message - From: "Curtis Maurand" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] billable fee schedule > > I would never do it that way. too much chance of someone crunching it > if its not down far enough. ground expands and thaws and that can sever > a cable. I know this doesn't classify as electrical, but electrical > code around here is 18" deep. > > --C > > Mike wrote: >> No you don't. I have *several* direct burials just inches down. I >> dug them just the way I said. There's nothing to freeze? My >> business IS in the frozen north; Iowa. >> >> At 12:22 PM 10/13/2009, you wrote: >> >> >>> You must be in the south where the ground doesn't freeze. Up here in >>> the great white north, you need to go down 18 inches. >>> >>> --C >>> >>> Mike wrote: >>> When I was a young man, a writer, I was idealistic and ready to conquer the world. In short order I grew up and lost my idealism. Since starting this business I have regained some of >>> that idealism. >>> My experience is the opposite. I usually take care of those customers who need minor help with things THEY consider part of MY network. I would not have gone overhead unless there was no way to trench. Direct burial cable is cheap. A trench can be made with a power edger with a new blade. An aerial should be tied to a supporting rope or wire. Most of my customers knew they couldn't get Internet except slow dialup before we came along. Is it loyalty? A new company has been selling in my county off of their cellular towers. I have only lost 2 customers to them. Never underestimate the power of good customer service. Mike At 07:58 PM 10/12/2009, you wrote: > I used to think that but I have found no matter how much you give > away, there is no loyalty! The monthly rate is all most care about. > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Mike wrote: > > >> If it is a good customer, I'd either do it for nothing, or for >> materials. You may just retain that customer for the next two years >> because of your good will. >> >> If he is prepared for $50 and its easy and doesn't take you long, >> you can say give me $20.00 for the cable and the custom ends, and >> we'll call it even. >> >> Either way, you'll make a friend/keep a customer; and they do talk. >> >> Our hourly billing is $60. Usually to make network settings, get >> virus protection on a machine ... >> >> >> At 09:52 AM 10/12/2009, you wrote: >> >> >>> Here's the scenario: Customer has an aerial ethernet run from his >>> garage to his home. A tree branch fell and cut the line. I told him >>> we'll replace it for a $50 fee. Does this sound fair? >>> Also, does anyone have a fee schedule they use for billable calls? >>> Thanks! >>> -RickG >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> > -- > > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -- >>> >>> > -- > > >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> >>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >>> >>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>
Re: [WISPA] Competitor at -40
I'm installing an AP soon on a grain leg that has one of those on it. What type of problems have you seen with them? First one I ever have come across, had to ask farmer boy what the heck it was. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Bushard Jr Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 8:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Competitor at -40 How many of you have run across the John Deere RTK GPS Repeaters? those are really fun too. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Jeremy Parr wrote: > Gotta love it. Picking up another wisps overamped Omni at -40 with a > 16dbi panel, pointed *away* from them. I thought this was supposed to > be a fun job? > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Mike Bushard, Jr Wireless Network Engineer DiversiCOM / Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] billable fee schedule
- Original Message - From: "Mike" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] billable fee schedule > Sorry Marlon; you'll have to show me. Not only is there no burial > depth requirement for limited energy circuits, such as telephone, and > data, but the installation you speak of was done by a communications > utility, making it exempt from any NEC rules. That's different than a WISP doing this... > > NEC does talk about low voltage <30V landscape lighting and it must > be buried at least 6 inches. Remember that the 802.3AF standard is 48 volts. Most equipment isn't there yet, but it's probably coming. I'll have to dig out the book again and doublecheck but I'll assume that you're right on the 6" deal. If it works for us that's great. It's been a couple of years since I've gone through a class. > > I use that direct burial cable with no icky pick, but looks and feels > like lanolin. It has a PVC jacket, moves with frost heave, and lasts > forever. Not that I have done it more than a few times, but would > MUCH rather do it that way than go overhead if I have a choice. I agree with the underground vs. overhead. My decision to use conduit mainly comes from the irrigated farm days. We always burried the cables 3' deep (to be well below the farming levels). Yet some kind of critter or another was always chewing up the cables and causing breaks, corrosion etc. Once we finally started putting all of the cables in conduit all of those problems went away. Oh yeah, in my yard I've had to fix the sprinkler wires more than once due to moles. Conduit is cheap. It's also very east to replace the cable when someone's dog, racoon, or whatever eats the wires off of the radio. grin marlon > > Mike > > > > At 08:51 PM 10/13/2009, you wrote: >>It's 18" everywhere, that's NEC rules. I tell people what code is then >>let >>them handle the ditch... >> >>Also, we NEVER direct bury anymore. Eventually the gophers or something >>will get it, and you just can't splice this cable either (at least *I* >>won't). >> >>We put all underground in conduit nowadays. Life is sooo much better this >>way. >>marlon >> >>- Original Message - >>From: "Curtis Maurand" >>To: "WISPA General List" >>Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:23 PM >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] billable fee schedule >> >> >> > >> > I would never do it that way. too much chance of someone crunching it >> > if its not down far enough. ground expands and thaws and that can >> > sever >> > a cable. I know this doesn't classify as electrical, but electrical >> > code around here is 18" deep. >> > >> > --C >> > >> > Mike wrote: >> >> No you don't. I have *several* direct burials just inches down. I >> >> dug them just the way I said. There's nothing to freeze? My >> >> business IS in the frozen north; Iowa. >> >> >> >> At 12:22 PM 10/13/2009, you wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> You must be in the south where the ground doesn't freeze. Up here in >> >>> the great white north, you need to go down 18 inches. >> >>> >> >>> --C >> >>> >> >>> Mike wrote: >> >>> >> When I was a young man, a writer, I was idealistic and ready to >> conquer the world. In short order I grew up and lost my >> idealism. Since starting this business I have regained some of >> >> >>> that idealism. >> >>> >> My experience is the opposite. I usually take care of those >> customers who need minor help with things THEY consider part of MY >> network. I would not have gone overhead unless there was no way to >> trench. Direct burial cable is cheap. A trench can be made with a >> power edger with a new blade. An aerial should be tied to a >> supporting rope or wire. >> >> Most of my customers knew they couldn't get Internet except slow >> dialup before we came along. Is it loyalty? A new company has been >> selling in my county off of their cellular towers. I have only lost >> 2 customers to them. >> >> Never underestimate the power of good customer service. >> >> Mike >> >> At 07:58 PM 10/12/2009, you wrote: >> >> >> > I used to think that but I have found no matter how much you give >> > away, there is no loyalty! The monthly rate is all most care about. >> > >> > On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Mike wrote: >> > >> > >> >> If it is a good customer, I'd either do it for nothing, or for >> >> materials. You may just retain that customer for the next two >> >> years >> >> because of your good will. >> >> >> >> If he is prepared for $50 and its easy and doesn't take you long, >> >> you can say give me $20.00 for the cable and the custom ends, and >> >> we'll call it even. >> >> >> >> Either way, you'll make a friend/keep a customer; and they do >> >> talk. >> >> >> >> Our hourly billing is $60. Usually to make network
Re: [WISPA] customer information
I've run into that problem before. I explained to them that the average cell site does 10s of thousands of dollars per month in revenue. Yet my average tower only does a thousand or two. I also took the time to go to a city council meeting and answer any questions about my income and net revenue so that they knew I wasn't pulling any legs (this info was kept out of the written record at my request). I also told them that I wanted to benefit the community and those that live outside the city and outside the range of DSL or cable. I pointed out that competition is a healthy thing and that I'm the only one competing with the telco. We went from $1500 per month to trade for service (I feed the town, museum, fire department, library, city shop and now all of the cop cars). We've been there for 5 years now and they've not come after me for more money. The community has benefited because people from a couple of towns over are moving to the area specifically for the schools. They'd not have been as willing to without broadband for communications, education, shopping, entertainment etc. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "jp" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] customer information > Thanks for the feedback everyone! > > I'm their guinea pig. They haven't let any cell providers in yet. I'm > the only tower user leasing town property. I suspect they mistakenly > assume I'm raking in millions from my rohn25 tower there, and not > investing a dime to do something for their residents/my customers. After > all, I survived the dot-com bust, and I'm a college dropout dot-commer > like Bill Gates and Michael Dell, so I must have some special > resources... > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 05:29:07PM -0500, Blake Bowers wrote: >> Sounds like someone in the city has the bright idea to >> offer municipal service and make some of the millions of >> dollars you are raking in each month. >> >> I know if you gave out my information like that, I would >> be finding another provider. >> >> Do they lease to anyone else on their sites? Are their new >> contracts with them going to require the same information? I >> really doubt it, as no one I know would every agree, espically the >> cell carriers. >> >> They can't single you out. >> >> >> Don't take your organs to heaven, >> heaven knows we need them down here! >> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "jp" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:40 PM >> Subject: [WISPA] customer information >> >> >> > We've got a municipal lease for one of our towers in a town (We have >> > several towers/sites in the town) and it's up for renewal. >> > >> > The municipal leaders wants a map of all users in town and where they >> > get their service from. They want a listing of all users intown and out >> > of town, who use the tower on the site we lease from the town. They >> > want >> > a listing of revenues attributed to the site since the lease began. >> > >> > I don't mind giving out maps of our service area, but I think this is >> > going a bit far, and isn't likely to be helpful. I wouldn't want such >> > information to fall into other companies hands with an FOI request or >> > careless distribution either. >> > >> > Is any of this illegal to provide? I know CPNI would prevent me from >> > disclosing VOIP records. Any other legal impediments to sharing this? I >> > don't make any security/privacy promises in our AUP. Showing them >> > enough >> > information might be helpful with my case to contribute enough >> > information to show we aren't getting rich off the site and wish for >> > more coverage or expansion. Showing a town coverage information is good >> > for spreading word of mouth about where we can serve in case people >> > didn't think we served that area. But showing all of it would be good >> > for competitors and customers might distrust us a bit for being too >> > free >> > or think we are promoting identity theft. I know darn sure some >> > celebrity customers don't want their name on a local list of clients. >> > >> > Any suggestions on gracefully handling such a request? >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > -- > /* > Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL >KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting > http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ > */ > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join tod
Re: [WISPA] Competitor at -40
Heya Jeremy, Use a known gain antenna (I don't know what the ns2 is), get to where you are looking right into the main beam of their antenna exactly 1 mile (or two or whatever, but an exact distance in even miles) away. Send me the rssi value and I'll run the calcs to figure out what their eirp is. You might want to try this with a couple of different radios as these signal levels don't hardly seem possible. If I figure a 30dB (1 watt) transmitter into a 15dB omni (pretty common screw up) I still only get -38 at .5 miles to a 15dB cpe antenna. 32 watts of output vs. the 4 watts that a base station can legally have. He'd have to be in excess of 64 watts if my assumptions are right. Here's one of the problems these days. I've got, waiting for me to try it, a 30dB tx power radio.That's a LOT of tx power. But it's what the manufacturers are shipping these days. Even the xr2 defaults to 28dB in a MT radio. I ALWAYS turn them down. Usually to the 17 to 20 dB range. They system works much much better that way. Many people still treat RF like horsepower though. If a little is good, more is better. Yet you don't drive your car at wide open throttle all of the time, even in a racing situation. Why does anyone think it's a good idea on the radios? Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: "Jeremy Parr" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Competitor at -40 > 2009/10/13 Jeremy Parr : >> Gotta love it. Picking up another wisps overamped Omni at -40 with a >> 16dbi panel, pointed *away* from them. I thought this was supposed to >> be a fun job? > > And a NS2 about 1/2 mile away from their omni, aimed 25* off and > separated by a few sparse trees is seeing it at -33. Oh joy. > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] billable fee schedule
Actually, since they are a cellular company and can have unlimited bandwidth, they are faster right now. That will change as they build out. The customer money stays local instead of going out of town when they "shop" with me. I write a weekly column for the paper so am well known in the area; that helps a bunch. I drive a trailer to local events and set up free WiFi. That has certainly raised awareness. I have brought broadband to people who absolutely couldn't get it any other way. National statistics will show there is a definite boost to property value if a household is able to get high speed Internet. I've actually had people make a house buying decision on whether we could bring them broadband or not. I have a flashing light I can turn on placed on 2 of the towers. A site survey begins by a phone conversation, turning on the light and "can you see it now?" That has really helped and raised awareness. Superior customer service. Money stays locally. Dealing with a local character. Mike At 06:09 PM 10/13/2009, you wrote: >Is it a comparable service? What do you give versus what they give? > >On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Mike wrote: > > Rick: > > > > The competition that came at me is 39.00. Mine, if you pay promptly > > is 42.50. They intentionally came in under me. Like I've said, only > > 2 have jumped ship. > > > > At 11:08 AM 10/13/2009, you wrote: > >>But, do the ones who have a choice for cheaper service and out of > >>contract stay with you? > >>-RickG > >> > >>On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Mike wrote: > >> > Similar to your example of perceived value, we extract a capital fee > >> > up front when putting on a new customer. My accountant described it > >> > like joining a health club, you get to use the equipment but don't > >> > get to take it home. The fee is the real cost of installing. Easy > >> > ones are 150 bucks. Others vary according to difficulty. So they > >> > buy in to the whole thing from the get go. > >> > > >> > Our rates are 45.00. If you pay on time, from email billing, you > >> > take off 2.50 and its 42.50. > >> > > >> > I think I have a very loyal bunch of customers. I didn't know what > >> > to expect when the two year contracts started expiring, but MOST have > >> > stayed with us. > >> > > >> > Best Regards, > >> > > >> > Mike > >> > > >> > At 09:47 PM 10/12/2009, you wrote: > >> >>Mike, > >> >> > >> >>Since I began working, even as a teenager, I worked 60-80 hours a week > >> >>giving customers the best I could. I'm now 49 and still work at least > >> >>that many hours. At least now, I own my company and do it for myself. > >> >>In fact, before I owned my own company my reputation was "Mr.Service". > >> >>Heck, I've watched the sun rise from a customers computers! People > >> >>have always told me I have a great work ethic. I have always thought - > >> >>give'em great service and they'll stick. It's not true! Given the > >> >>opportunity, for less than $5/month they WILL switch without even an > >> >>apology! > >> >>So, dont get me wrong, I still give great service but have realized I > >> >>have previously given too much. All I did was take a lot of time away > >> >>from my family to help customers that only appreciate it at the time. > >> >>Again, I'm not saying dont give great service - what I am saying is > >> >>dont give away the store. Maybe you can afford it but every move you > >> >>make should be profitable, otherwise you will end up out of business > >> >>or in a poor mental state from work burnout. Have you ever looked at > >> >>the competition knowing you give better service yet they are still > >> >>winning? In fact, I've seen more people respect the competition > >> >>because they are higher priced or charge for everything. It is truly a > >> >>mindset. I believe there is a balance that must constantly be > >> >>maintained. Which is why I asked the question, billable or not? > >> >>Again, your business model may be different but using you scenario > >> >>below is difficult to achieve in mine. Perhaps your monthly rates are > >> >>higher, installation higher, or your bottom line is not as important > >> >>to you? Somebody always has to pay the piper. Most people understand > >> >>capitolism and the need to be profitable so you can pay the bills. > >> >>What good is it to go out of business just so they can go back to dial > >> >>up? > >> >>Furthermore, I have found another interesting outcome by giving work > >> >>away - other customers either come to expect it or get jealous. > >> >>What is really expected by the customers who give you their hard > >> >>earned money is a good product for what they pay. They also deserve an > >> >>efficiently run company with proper business practices to get the most > >> >>bang for their bucks. And on that note, isnt there always something to > >> >>do to improve the network? Why give so much time to one customer when > >> >>you can work on the network and improve it for all? I
Re: [WISPA] Competitor at -40
There was discussion regarding this system a few days ago. It has absolutely wrecked havoc on 900 MHz in many rural areas. It really is gee whiz technology however/ At 07:41 PM 10/13/2009, you wrote: >How many of you have run across the John Deere RTK GPS Repeaters? those are >really fun too. > > > > >On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Jeremy Parr wrote: > > > Gotta love it. Picking up another wisps overamped Omni at -40 with a > > 16dbi panel, pointed *away* from them. I thought this was supposed to > > be a fun job? > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > >-- >Mike Bushard, Jr >Wireless Network Engineer >DiversiCOM / Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC >320-256-WISP (9477) > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
