Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
Oh, and XO has a lot of their own metro fiber. Not sure of their long haul. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:31 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Isn't XO a Level3 reseller? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: It should be noted that an Upstreams performance can be directly proportional to the location where they have more peering. In the DC and NY markets, Cogent has excellent performance and peering, and has shown to outperform EVERY provider we have tried, period. (And yes, some of the carriers we tried were Level3, XO, and Abovenet.) I recognize that Cogent's performance may not be as good for ALL markets where they potentially could have a weaker presence. But saying Cogent is only worthy of the 3rd or 4th transit connection is simply untrue. Cogent's weak point now is internal processes and communication. They've lost touch with the value of having personal Account Reps, and render the reps powerless to manage the accounts, in favor of the customer relationship managed by the clueless billing/collections department. Its a shame. You might even get away with saying Cogent has a few more short duration (less than 15 minutes?) outages than other carriers. But their tech support has been the best by far in the industry, and oversubscription has never been a problem from what I see. In picking a Transit provider its really a decision about where your traffic typically flows, and where you need good performance to. NOT anyone has best performance everywhere. For example, Hurricane has excellent performance AND they are inexpensive. They have a really good peering presensence in CA. I'm not confident that they have nearly as good a presence on the East coast though, but those that have used them on teh east coast that I know have been happy. We were considering using them. Abovenet has great Gig-E Transport. But their transit is expensive, and its because its more expensive for them to provide it, because they are not as well positioned to do it cost effectively, not because its necessarilly better. Level3 as well, has many strength. They have a lot of web host clients. It can really help performance to reach certain sites. Level3 also tends to blocks smaller BGP block announcements, more so than someone like Cogent. Level3 is good for a secondaryu because they usually have diverse routes. Some providers have good performance to France, Amsterdam, India, others dont. Savvis tends to have real peering to NY finacnial markets. I often see Blended bandwdith combining Global Cross and Level3, not sure why these two are chosen as a pair. Maybe its simply becaue they tend to be colocated at the same carrier hotels? But selecting a transit provider is not as simple as saying one is better. My personaly opinion is, find the two lowest cost providers, and then you can afford to buy more bandwidth, and have two options to route customers. You also need to consider the path to where you take it. For example, Cogent remote tenant buildings likely have routers with less ram that cant handle full BGP tables, so they require creating session to two seperate BGP servers (with the second one having full routes.). But of you connect to them inb a major colo center that doesn;t exist. Similar things exist with other providers depending on where you pick up the circuit. What I like about Abovenet, is they'll map out their network for you, so you know exactly what you are buying, so true redunancy can be built into the network design. Cogent is a bit more secrative about the traffic path. XO has had some really good account reps, and I liked that. But for me, they didn't really give me anything exciting as far as price or performance, more than anyone else. It should also be noted that it could make a big difference which local colo you pick the circuit up in also. So when you are evaluating a provider you are also evaluating the venue where the circuit is in. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com To: bcl...@spectraaccess.com; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Cogent can be ok, but they are not equal to AboveNET, XO, ATT, Level3 etc... We have multiple upstream GigE feeds and Cogent is one of them. It
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
Web hosts are usually fairly good sources. They buy large quantities from many carriers and often have a lot of inbound capacity available. Check out BGPlay for the routing and reliability of a certain IP block. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Nick Olsen n...@brevardwireless.com Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 5:24 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams As we can all see, This is very dependent on market. Bret here has had a great time with cogent, where others are quick to say its a lesser provider. Arguing which carrier has better uptime is a waste of time. Long story short, Pick what is the best in that market. You might even get away with looking up some of the big company's in your city, and if they peer with someone you might also want to peer with (like cogent). Give them a call and see if you can get a tech, see what they have to say about $CARRIER in your area. They might tell you to jump in a lake, but you might get someone cool who is willing to talk. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Bret Clark bcl...@spectraaccess.com Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:10 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Brad Belton wrote: While I agree no solution can be considered equal in any given location, there are trends or a general barometer to help place one carrier over another. Such as? This is exactly my point (being made by Tom, a Cogent customer!) why Cogent should not be depended on as a sole or primary Internet feed. If Cogent's all you got then you're SOL! Baloney, we've used them as one of our primary's for well over a year without hiccup. Our so other better providers have given us more frustration. Bottom line is any carrier can break. If you can only have one then find one that breaks the least. If you can have more than one, Cogent is a good low cost second or third to have in a pinch for relatively little cost. Where are you getting your data from? Curious as to why you feel they are a second or third alternative? Bret WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
Not to you, but to the thread: Cogent isn't even the low cost leader anymore. PCCW is often cheaper as is HE. HE even has $1250 GEs and $400 FEs. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Brad, Once again I disagree. Cogent represents themselves as low cost, but they have never represented themselves as low quality. Second, Cogent is most ideal as the FIRST PRIMARY provider, because Cogent is higher performing, and faster speed connections are more affordable. I agree, a backup secondary provider is needed to help when there are short outages. The backup providers dont need to be as high a capacity, or as quality, as they are seldom used exempt in the rare emergencies. Third, What determines how inexpensive a Transit provider is has nothing to do with Quality, it has to do with who has more settlement free peers. Cogent costs less, because Cogent has to pay fewer other ISPs for capacity. This DOES NOT mean they use low quality public peering, it means that they have more quality private peering negotiated at better terms. Bottom line is any carrier can break That, I agree with. Which is why its important to have two upstreams. But, that is not a reason to not buy Cogent first. By buying Cogent first it allows a provider to become more profitable sooner, and therefore able to afford sooner multiple upstreams. Its also depends on what the downstream offers in its value proposition. With Cogent, I offer my custoemrs Gig-E when others can offer 100mb. With Cogent, I can offer my customers half the price, if not 1/3rd the price that my tier2 competitiors can offer. With Cogent, I offer excellent performance, better than most, most of the time, and if they get an outage so what. Is it really better to have less good performance all the time, to gain .009 better uptime? That depends on the target client base of the WISP. You also got another thing right... I am largely dependant on Cogent, and I hate that. But its relevent to ask why I'm dependant? When I first started out, it was because of price, but not anymore. I'm dependant on Cogent because its really hard to find a Tier1 Carrier that can offer anywhere near as equivellent consistent performance and tech support. My customers really noticed, everytime I tried someone else, so someone else never lastest. Note that I did not say uptime, I said performance. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams While I agree no solution can be considered equal in any given location, there are trends or a general barometer to help place one carrier over another. This is the reality that typically puts Cogent towards the back of the bus in most people's minds. The biggest proponents of Cogent are those that are largely dependent on Cogent due to any number of reasons. Budget constraints, lack of alternate higher quality peer availability etc, etc. Cogent makes no excuse promoting themselves as the low end, budget driven bottom dollar provider. They are good for what they offer, but again not what a network administrator looking for high availability is going to pick as a first choice. You might even get away with saying Cogent has a few more short duration (less than 15 minutes?) outages than other carriers. This is exactly my point (being made by Tom, a Cogent customer!) why Cogent should not be depended on as a sole or primary Internet feed. If Cogent's all you got then you're SOL! Bottom line is any carrier can break. If you can only have one then find one that breaks the least. If you can have more than one, Cogent is a good low cost second or third to have in a pinch for relatively little cost. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams It should be noted that an Upstreams performance can be directly proportional to the location where they have more peering. In the DC and NY markets, Cogent has excellent performance and peering, and has shown to outperform EVERY provider we have tried, period. (And yes, some of the carriers we tried were Level3, XO, and Abovenet.) I recognize that Cogent's performance may not be as good for ALL markets where they potentially could have a weaker presence. But saying Cogent is only worthy of the 3rd or 4th transit connection is
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
Many carriers swap routes around. http://www.fixedorbit.com/stats.htm http://www.fixedorbit.com/AS/2/AS2828.htm According to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_network XO has paid peering with Sprint and L3, but some information on that page isn't exactly current with things I've heard elsewhere. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:31 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Isn't XO a Level3 reseller? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: It should be noted that an Upstreams performance can be directly proportional to the location where they have more peering. In the DC and NY markets, Cogent has excellent performance and peering, and has shown to outperform EVERY provider we have tried, period. (And yes, some of the carriers we tried were Level3, XO, and Abovenet.) I recognize that Cogent's performance may not be as good for ALL markets where they potentially could have a weaker presence. But saying Cogent is only worthy of the 3rd or 4th transit connection is simply untrue. Cogent's weak point now is internal processes and communication. They've lost touch with the value of having personal Account Reps, and render the reps powerless to manage the accounts, in favor of the customer relationship managed by the clueless billing/collections department. Its a shame. You might even get away with saying Cogent has a few more short duration (less than 15 minutes?) outages than other carriers. But their tech support has been the best by far in the industry, and oversubscription has never been a problem from what I see. In picking a Transit provider its really a decision about where your traffic typically flows, and where you need good performance to. NOT anyone has best performance everywhere. For example, Hurricane has excellent performance AND they are inexpensive. They have a really good peering presensence in CA. I'm not confident that they have nearly as good a presence on the East coast though, but those that have used them on teh east coast that I know have been happy. We were considering using them. Abovenet has great Gig-E Transport. But their transit is expensive, and its because its more expensive for them to provide it, because they are not as well positioned to do it cost effectively, not because its necessarilly better. Level3 as well, has many strength. They have a lot of web host clients. It can really help performance to reach certain sites. Level3 also tends to blocks smaller BGP block announcements, more so than someone like Cogent. Level3 is good for a secondaryu because they usually have diverse routes. Some providers have good performance to France, Amsterdam, India, others dont. Savvis tends to have real peering to NY finacnial markets. I often see Blended bandwdith combining Global Cross and Level3, not sure why these two are chosen as a pair. Maybe its simply becaue they tend to be colocated at the same carrier hotels? But selecting a transit provider is not as simple as saying one is better. My personaly opinion is, find the two lowest cost providers, and then you can afford to buy more bandwidth, and have two options to route customers. You also need to consider the path to where you take it. For example, Cogent remote tenant buildings likely have routers with less ram that cant handle full BGP tables, so they require creating session to two seperate BGP servers (with the second one having full routes.). But of you connect to them inb a major colo center that doesn;t exist. Similar things exist with other providers depending on where you pick up the circuit. What I like about Abovenet, is they'll map out their network for you, so WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Net Neutrality: The Canadians Get it Right!
http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/2714 Lets hope the FCC can make a ruling as balanced and appropriate as this one. Matt Larsen Vistabeam.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
HE even has $1250 GEs Wow, is that transport or transit? Yeah, 2 months ago, we were going to get an Abovenet transport to Hurricain transit because Hurricane's market low pricing, but then Equinix started giving us a hard time on colo, trying to charge us more for the colo than both the transport and transit links combined, so we pulled the plug on the order. Hurricaine had the $2 /mb on GIg-E as long as also do IPv6 w/ IPv4. But where HE did better is they also gave good pricing on the low capacity commits. That makes it cost effective to give HE a try, before going all out, provided you're in a colo they are at. We also found a couple providers that had some really cool programs like you commit to a monthly dollar figure, but could accept the bandwdith from any Equinix facility or distributed between several of them, and move the capacity on the fly to either location. It was great option for someone wanting to expand nationwide, but not knowing where sales will develop first more. But it also allowed Gig-E pricing without having to pay for GIg-E in multiple locations. Its to bad its at Equinix though, cause a lot of teh value proposition got killed once transport added to it to get out to remote cell site, or Equinix's clueless overcharging of antenna roof space. Again its really sad when someone tried to charge more for an antenna position than a GIg-E fiber link. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Not to you, but to the thread: Cogent isn't even the low cost leader anymore. PCCW is often cheaper as is HE. HE even has $1250 GEs and $400 FEs. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Brad, Once again I disagree. Cogent represents themselves as low cost, but they have never represented themselves as low quality. Second, Cogent is most ideal as the FIRST PRIMARY provider, because Cogent is higher performing, and faster speed connections are more affordable. I agree, a backup secondary provider is needed to help when there are short outages. The backup providers dont need to be as high a capacity, or as quality, as they are seldom used exempt in the rare emergencies. Third, What determines how inexpensive a Transit provider is has nothing to do with Quality, it has to do with who has more settlement free peers. Cogent costs less, because Cogent has to pay fewer other ISPs for capacity. This DOES NOT mean they use low quality public peering, it means that they have more quality private peering negotiated at better terms. Bottom line is any carrier can break That, I agree with. Which is why its important to have two upstreams. But, that is not a reason to not buy Cogent first. By buying Cogent first it allows a provider to become more profitable sooner, and therefore able to afford sooner multiple upstreams. Its also depends on what the downstream offers in its value proposition. With Cogent, I offer my custoemrs Gig-E when others can offer 100mb. With Cogent, I can offer my customers half the price, if not 1/3rd the price that my tier2 competitiors can offer. With Cogent, I offer excellent performance, better than most, most of the time, and if they get an outage so what. Is it really better to have less good performance all the time, to gain .009 better uptime? That depends on the target client base of the WISP. You also got another thing right... I am largely dependant on Cogent, and I hate that. But its relevent to ask why I'm dependant? When I first started out, it was because of price, but not anymore. I'm dependant on Cogent because its really hard to find a Tier1 Carrier that can offer anywhere near as equivellent consistent performance and tech support. My customers really noticed, everytime I tried someone else, so someone else never lastest. Note that I did not say uptime, I said performance. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams While I agree no solution can be considered equal in any given location, there are trends or a general barometer to help place one carrier over another. This is the reality that typically puts Cogent towards the back of the bus in most people's minds. The biggest proponents of Cogent are those that are largely dependent on Cogent due to
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
Useful site. I found it particular intersting that Level3 was high up on all teh stats. These are all good metric for evaluating provider's peering relevence and size. What these sites dont help with is tell you the capacity or throughput accross the routes. A company could have 1000 more peers than someone else, but if they were all 100 mbps peers, it might not deliver near as much performance if all the peers were 10GB. What would be interesting would be to have stats on average capacity per peer connection. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Many carriers swap routes around. http://www.fixedorbit.com/stats.htm http://www.fixedorbit.com/AS/2/AS2828.htm According to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_network XO has paid peering with Sprint and L3, but some information on that page isn't exactly current with things I've heard elsewhere. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:31 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Isn't XO a Level3 reseller? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: It should be noted that an Upstreams performance can be directly proportional to the location where they have more peering. In the DC and NY markets, Cogent has excellent performance and peering, and has shown to outperform EVERY provider we have tried, period. (And yes, some of the carriers we tried were Level3, XO, and Abovenet.) I recognize that Cogent's performance may not be as good for ALL markets where they potentially could have a weaker presence. But saying Cogent is only worthy of the 3rd or 4th transit connection is simply untrue. Cogent's weak point now is internal processes and communication. They've lost touch with the value of having personal Account Reps, and render the reps powerless to manage the accounts, in favor of the customer relationship managed by the clueless billing/collections department. Its a shame. You might even get away with saying Cogent has a few more short duration (less than 15 minutes?) outages than other carriers. But their tech support has been the best by far in the industry, and oversubscription has never been a problem from what I see. In picking a Transit provider its really a decision about where your traffic typically flows, and where you need good performance to. NOT anyone has best performance everywhere. For example, Hurricane has excellent performance AND they are inexpensive. They have a really good peering presensence in CA. I'm not confident that they have nearly as good a presence on the East coast though, but those that have used them on teh east coast that I know have been happy. We were considering using them. Abovenet has great Gig-E Transport. But their transit is expensive, and its because its more expensive for them to provide it, because they are not as well positioned to do it cost effectively, not because its necessarilly better. Level3 as well, has many strength. They have a lot of web host clients. It can really help performance to reach certain sites. Level3 also tends to blocks smaller BGP block announcements, more so than someone like Cogent. Level3 is good for a secondaryu because they usually have diverse routes. Some providers have good performance to France, Amsterdam, India, others dont. Savvis tends to have real peering to NY finacnial markets. I often see Blended bandwdith combining Global Cross and Level3, not sure why these two are chosen as a pair. Maybe its simply becaue they tend to be colocated at the same carrier hotels? But selecting a transit provider is not as simple as saying one is better. My personaly opinion is, find the two lowest cost providers, and then you can afford to buy more bandwidth, and have two options to route customers. You also need to consider the path to where you take it. For example, Cogent remote tenant buildings likely have routers with less ram that cant handle full BGP tables, so they require creating session to two seperate BGP servers (with the second one having full routes.). But of you connect to them inb a major colo center that doesn;t exist. Similar things exist with other providers depending on where you pick up the circuit. What I like about Abovenet, is they'll
Re: [WISPA] Infinet - InfiMAN / InfiLINK 2x2 / B-NET B-300
Hi Daniel, Thanks, busy checking them out now. Does anybody on the list have some experiences they can share regarding Exalt, Infinet Orthogon. Regards, Rolf On Monday 19 October 2009 12:50:15 3-dB Networks wrote: Rolf, You might also want to check out this product... I've done some bench testing with it and was reasonably impressed. http://www.exaltcom.com/EX-5r-Series.aspx Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rolf Mendelsohn Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 5:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Infinet - InfiMAN / InfiLINK 2x2 / B-NET B-300 Hi Guys, I'm wondering if any of you happen to have the InfiNET 2 x 2 or Alvarion BreezeNET B-300 working and tested. http://www.infinetwireless.com/products-technologies/skyman-ng- system/infilink-2x2 http://www.alvarion.com/index.php/en/products/breezenet/breezenetr-b We have a couple of high capacity backhauls, for which we have used Motorola PTP-600 (Orthogon), but they are very expensive I am looking for another product which does similar throughput. Please let me know if anybody can share some experience here (on or even off-list). Thanks, Rolf WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing.
Yeah, but I'd have shipping on that -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Pole mounts are 8 bucks at Skywalker. When you say 2 bucks are those used from the dish installer? On 10/21/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: It comes from being a cheap S.O.B. Those J mounts aren't cheap new but the used ones for 2 bucks are usually perfect. A little WD-40 on the adjuster and it's all good. I don't know what they're made of, maybe some aluminum alloy but they are really light, I doubt they have much value as scrap so the 2 bucks is probably more than equitable for them. This is a metal yard that I deal with. Have the landfill lady hint to the junk collectors that good tower sections not bent or damaged much might bring more cash. They get really careful if they think they might make an extra 50 cents. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:06 PM To: WISPA General List; sarn...@info-ed.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. VERY Useful! I am going to make a sign and go visit my local landfill lady real soon. Thanks for a great idea. Mike At 10:35 AM 10/21/2009, Robert West wrote: Scottie, I've had some minor success by talking to a local metal scrap yard. It's a pretty good sized one, they put up a small sign at the pay window saying that if they get any tower sections to not crush or bend them. If they get a get sections they call and I go over. It's usually old American Tower 8 foot sections, like TV tower, but some are pretty useful. They charge usually 30 cents per pound and I pay a few cents over that for good sections in exchange for the sign next to the pay window. A month or so ago they called and I had to go out to a field to look at some that were too big for the metal collector guy to take into the yard. 2 80 foot heavy duty free standing towers in good shape laying in the field all overgrown with weeds. 150 bucks for the pair. Didn't know how much they weighed so I just offered the 150. They will also hold old DirectTV dishs and the J arm mounts for them if the sorters remember. Those are handy to have at 2 bucks each. As long as I pay more than scrap value, they are all over it. They usually have more stuff than I need though. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:25 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: motoro...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. What is a good price to give for a standard Rohn SSV tower, 100' with sections 7N, 6N, 5N, 4N, and 3WN in real good shape, each section still assembled, already down and ready for loading. I priced it new at around $8500. I have looked at www.usedtowers.com, but those are way higher than what I got this one for. I already won it at auction, but just checking to make sure I didn't screw up. Do any of you know where to find used towers besides qth.com, eham.net, ebay, and usedtowers.com? I have a few local places, but I am looking to expand my searches beyond those mentioned and local. TIA, Scottie Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. -- - - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- - - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- - - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- - - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
Our situation is thus: We are leasing a 45 Mile1 Gig fiber link from Greenville TX to 2323 Bryan ST. in Dallas (carrier hotel). My primary need is quality bandwidth. This will become my preferred route to the world. Secondary requirement is a company I won't have to spend 1 year working to get the billing correct. I am installing a 1 Gig (800M/800M) licensed PTP link from my NOC to another lit building in Richardson TX for path diversity. The choice of carriers here will be more limited. With Abovenet being one of the primary choices. I do not want this connection to go to the same carrier as the other connection. It's really kind of funny I was just a few years ago (12) when bonded 6 T's together and thought I had all the bandwidth in the world! Now I'll have and additional 2G at my NOC for less than I was paying for the 6 Ts. Marco WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing.
Hey someone was on my roof and stole my dish! Get your livestock offa my roof! mc On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I have a guy who pays his bill in dish mounts. $2 per mount delivered. We only accept the ones that are clean and reusable. He drops by every couple of weeks with 40-50 of them. Looks like they were removals from Dish/Direct TV. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:36 AM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Scottie, I've had some minor success by talking to a local metal scrap yard. It's a pretty good sized one, they put up a small sign at the pay window saying that if they get any tower sections to not crush or bend them. If they get a get sections they call and I go over. It's usually old American Tower 8 foot sections, like TV tower, but some are pretty useful. They charge usually 30 cents per pound and I pay a few cents over that for good sections in exchange for the sign next to the pay window. A month or so ago they called and I had to go out to a field to look at some that were too big for the metal collector guy to take into the yard. 2 80 foot heavy duty free standing towers in good shape laying in the field all overgrown with weeds. 150 bucks for the pair. Didn't know how much they weighed so I just offered the 150. They will also hold old DirectTV dishs and the J arm mounts for them if the sorters remember. Those are handy to have at 2 bucks each. As long as I pay more than scrap value, they are all over it. They usually have more stuff than I need though. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:25 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: motoro...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. What is a good price to give for a standard Rohn SSV tower, 100' with sections 7N, 6N, 5N, 4N, and 3WN in real good shape, each section still assembled, already down and ready for loading. I priced it new at around $8500. I have looked at www.usedtowers.com, but those are way higher than what I got this one for. I already won it at auction, but just checking to make sure I didn't screw up. Do any of you know where to find used towers besides qth.com, eham.net, ebay, and usedtowers.com? I have a few local places, but I am looking to expand my searches beyond those mentioned and local. TIA, Scottie Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
AboveNET will layout the exact path your fiber feed will be for you. Just make sure you're secondary path is completely diverse from whatever you choose as your primary. My suggestion would be to go with AboveNET or Level3 as your primary and use Cogent as your secondary. We haven't had any billing issues with any of our upstream providers that wasn't easily straightened out. Maybe we've just been lucky or maybe we just review our agreements more closely and haven't allowed for any chance of discrepancies. As they say...YMMV! Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Our situation is thus: We are leasing a 45 Mile1 Gig fiber link from Greenville TX to 2323 Bryan ST. in Dallas (carrier hotel). My primary need is quality bandwidth. This will become my preferred route to the world. Secondary requirement is a company I won't have to spend 1 year working to get the billing correct. I am installing a 1 Gig (800M/800M) licensed PTP link from my NOC to another lit building in Richardson TX for path diversity. The choice of carriers here will be more limited. With Abovenet being one of the primary choices. I do not want this connection to go to the same carrier as the other connection. It's really kind of funny I was just a few years ago (12) when bonded 6 T's together and thought I had all the bandwidth in the world! Now I'll have and additional 2G at my NOC for less than I was paying for the 6 Ts. Marco WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wire center boundary GIS data
Yes, this is the reason I want the data. Of course it won't account for RT deployment, though. Thanks for the responses. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com jp wrote: Telcodata.us has some info such as CO information and who's in the COs. You can use the web interface or buy the whole database of them for a modest subscription. I don't know of any good information about wirecenter boundaries. I'd be interested as wirecenter boundaries would be good to target for wireless, as DSL is pretty spotty in such areas. On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 03:42:51PM -0400, Patrick Shoemaker wrote: Does anyone know of a public domain source for telco wirecenter boundary and CO location information? Something that could be imported into Google Earth would be wonderful. -- Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Partnership Agreements
I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical engineer, travels around the world as a contractor overseeing the repair and programming of robotics as well as the installation of the equipment. He says he's tired of being gone all the time and wants to stay in one area in a field that will be somewhat related and complicated enough that he won't get bored. Hm.. I've been to his home a few times, even put in a private wireless connection between him and his neighbor a mile away. Seems like a decent guy. Now he wants to sit down and work things out on paper. Any advice on things to cover my ass on? Things some of you wished you had down on paper when you started out? I'm not a partner kinda guy, my business plan is always in my head, I make much of it up as I go along and I jump in and just do things myself so this is new territory.(However, my total lack of organization is due to the previously stated operation of the business plan) I know some will yell to not take on a partner and I'd be one of them, believe me. That's why I've fought them off so long. But with a larger network coming online and eyes for even more expansion, it's looking good to me. (We currently only have a little less than 200 subs but anticipate twice if not 3 times that to come online in 2010) I just don't want to be out in the cold or screwed over due to my ability to trust. I'll never give up more than 50%, won't happen, but there are many ways people can screw others. It all sounds like picking the right person for marriage. (I have a bad track record in that too!!! ) Do ya think maybe him and I should just kinda date for awhile before we make the commitment? What would be considered first base in this kind of thing? Configuring a CPE after a few dates then moving on to a customer installation then if it all goes well, take the plunge and climb a tower together? Weird. Thanks. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Holy cow!
Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut Network Using 'White Spaces' John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband network in rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV channels. House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who represents rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a Webcast with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how wireless Interent connectivity can change their lives. The government is currently working on a national broadband plan, including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet. Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum in secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless Internet providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a potential service area to make it economically viable. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
Don't do it... Or if you do do it make sure you have controlling interest in the company and can ultimately make any decision there is to be made. Consult lawyer do not do it on your own... That's my 2 cents :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:17 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical engineer, travels around the world as a contractor overseeing the repair and programming of robotics as well as the installation of the equipment. He says he's tired of being gone all the time and wants to stay in one area in a field that will be somewhat related and complicated enough that he won't get bored. Hm.. I've been to his home a few times, even put in a private wireless connection between him and his neighbor a mile away. Seems like a decent guy. Now he wants to sit down and work things out on paper. Any advice on things to cover my ass on? Things some of you wished you had down on paper when you started out? I'm not a partner kinda guy, my business plan is always in my head, I make much of it up as I go along and I jump in and just do things myself so this is new territory.(However, my total lack of organization is due to the previously stated operation of the business plan) I know some will yell to not take on a partner and I'd be one of them, believe me. That's why I've fought them off so long. But with a larger network coming online and eyes for even more expansion, it's looking good to me. (We currently only have a little less than 200 subs but anticipate twice if not 3 times that to come online in 2010) I just don't want to be out in the cold or screwed over due to my ability to trust. I'll never give up more than 50%, won't happen, but there are many ways people can screw others. It all sounds like picking the right person for marriage. (I have a bad track record in that too!!! ) Do ya think maybe him and I should just kinda date for awhile before we make the commitment? What would be considered first base in this kind of thing? Configuring a CPE after a few dates then moving on to a customer installation then if it all goes well, take the plunge and climb a tower together? Weird. Thanks. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
My rules are: Make it performance based Make sure what he is bringing to the table is equitable to the proposed share of the company Try to talk out exit strategy, where you are taking it, how you want to go and see if that matches up to what your new partner wants to do. This all depends on the business structure you have setup (which you havent mentioned) but I assume it is an LLC or Corporation for your state, make sure it is in writing. Watch this video if you want: http://vimeo.com/6950199 Good luck. -Israel Robert West wrote: I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical engineer, travels around the world as a contractor overseeing the repair and programming of robotics as well as the installation of the equipment. He says he's tired of being gone all the time and wants to stay in one area in a field that will be somewhat related and complicated enough that he won't get bored. Hm.. I've been to his home a few times, even put in a private wireless connection between him and his neighbor a mile away. Seems like a decent guy. Now he wants to sit down and work things out on paper. Any advice on things to cover my ass on? Things some of you wished you had down on paper when you started out? I'm not a partner kinda guy, my business plan is always in my head, I make much of it up as I go along and I jump in and just do things myself so this is new territory.(However, my total lack of organization is due to the previously stated operation of the business plan) I know some will yell to not take on a partner and I'd be one of them, believe me. That's why I've fought them off so long. But with a larger network coming online and eyes for even more expansion, it's looking good to me. (We currently only have a little less than 200 subs but anticipate twice if not 3 times that to come online in 2010) I just don't want to be out in the cold or screwed over due to my ability to trust. I'll never give up more than 50%, won't happen, but there are many ways people can screw others. It all sounds like picking the right person for marriage. (I have a bad track record in that too!!! ) Do ya think maybe him and I should just kinda date for awhile before we make the commitment? What would be considered first base in this kind of thing? Configuring a CPE after a few dates then moving on to a customer installation then if it all goes well, take the plunge and climb a tower together? Weird. Thanks. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing.
It's funny but I bet that happens. Good example of that is stolen man hole covers to be sold at the scrap yard, road signs and on the metal light poles, the little covers at the bottom that cover the electrical access.. They were stolen so much that now they dont even come with them. This sort of thing is why they now require picture ID when you sell your junk at the yard. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Hey someone was on my roof and stole my dish! Get your livestock offa my roof! mc On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I have a guy who pays his bill in dish mounts. $2 per mount delivered. We only accept the ones that are clean and reusable. He drops by every couple of weeks with 40-50 of them. Looks like they were removals from Dish/Direct TV. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:36 AM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Scottie, I've had some minor success by talking to a local metal scrap yard. It's a pretty good sized one, they put up a small sign at the pay window saying that if they get any tower sections to not crush or bend them. If they get a get sections they call and I go over. It's usually old American Tower 8 foot sections, like TV tower, but some are pretty useful. They charge usually 30 cents per pound and I pay a few cents over that for good sections in exchange for the sign next to the pay window. A month or so ago they called and I had to go out to a field to look at some that were too big for the metal collector guy to take into the yard. 2 80 foot heavy duty free standing towers in good shape laying in the field all overgrown with weeds. 150 bucks for the pair. Didn't know how much they weighed so I just offered the 150. They will also hold old DirectTV dishs and the J arm mounts for them if the sorters remember. Those are handy to have at 2 bucks each. As long as I pay more than scrap value, they are all over it. They usually have more stuff than I need though. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:25 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: motoro...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. What is a good price to give for a standard Rohn SSV tower, 100' with sections 7N, 6N, 5N, 4N, and 3WN in real good shape, each section still assembled, already down and ready for loading. I priced it new at around $8500. I have looked at www.usedtowers.com, but those are way higher than what I got this one for. I already won it at auction, but just checking to make sure I didn't screw up. Do any of you know where to find used towers besides qth.com, eham.net, ebay, and usedtowers.com? I have a few local places, but I am looking to expand my searches beyond those mentioned and local. TIA, Scottie Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
Worldcom was the worst for billing issues. MCI was the bomb before they were assimilated. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: AboveNET will layout the exact path your fiber feed will be for you. Just make sure you're secondary path is completely diverse from whatever you choose as your primary. My suggestion would be to go with AboveNET or Level3 as your primary and use Cogent as your secondary. We haven't had any billing issues with any of our upstream providers that wasn't easily straightened out. Maybe we've just been lucky or maybe we just review our agreements more closely and haven't allowed for any chance of discrepancies. As they say...YMMV! Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Our situation is thus: We are leasing a 45 Mile1 Gig fiber link from Greenville TX to 2323 Bryan ST. in Dallas (carrier hotel). My primary need is quality bandwidth. This will become my preferred route to the world. Secondary requirement is a company I won't have to spend 1 year working to get the billing correct. I am installing a 1 Gig (800M/800M) licensed PTP link from my NOC to another lit building in Richardson TX for path diversity. The choice of carriers here will be more limited. With Abovenet being one of the primary choices. I do not want this connection to go to the same carrier as the other connection. It's really kind of funny I was just a few years ago (12) when bonded 6 T's together and thought I had all the bandwidth in the world! Now I'll have and additional 2G at my NOC for less than I was paying for the 6 Ts. Marco WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing.
I sell MY junk on the street corner! On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: It's funny but I bet that happens. Good example of that is stolen man hole covers to be sold at the scrap yard, road signs and on the metal light poles, the little covers at the bottom that cover the electrical access.. They were stolen so much that now they don’t even come with them. This sort of thing is why they now require picture ID when you sell your junk at the yard. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Hey someone was on my roof and stole my dish! Get your livestock offa my roof! mc On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I have a guy who pays his bill in dish mounts. $2 per mount delivered. We only accept the ones that are clean and reusable. He drops by every couple of weeks with 40-50 of them. Looks like they were removals from Dish/Direct TV. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:36 AM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Scottie, I've had some minor success by talking to a local metal scrap yard. It's a pretty good sized one, they put up a small sign at the pay window saying that if they get any tower sections to not crush or bend them. If they get a get sections they call and I go over. It's usually old American Tower 8 foot sections, like TV tower, but some are pretty useful. They charge usually 30 cents per pound and I pay a few cents over that for good sections in exchange for the sign next to the pay window. A month or so ago they called and I had to go out to a field to look at some that were too big for the metal collector guy to take into the yard. 2 80 foot heavy duty free standing towers in good shape laying in the field all overgrown with weeds. 150 bucks for the pair. Didn't know how much they weighed so I just offered the 150. They will also hold old DirectTV dishs and the J arm mounts for them if the sorters remember. Those are handy to have at 2 bucks each. As long as I pay more than scrap value, they are all over it. They usually have more stuff than I need though. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:25 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: motoro...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. What is a good price to give for a standard Rohn SSV tower, 100' with sections 7N, 6N, 5N, 4N, and 3WN in real good shape, each section still assembled, already down and ready for loading. I priced it new at around $8500. I have looked at www.usedtowers.com, but those are way higher than what I got this one for. I already won it at auction, but just checking to make sure I didn't screw up. Do any of you know where to find used towers besides qth.com, eham.net, ebay, and usedtowers.com? I have a few local places, but I am looking to expand my searches beyond those mentioned and local. TIA, Scottie Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036
Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!
I don't know why Microsoft would even want to include Dell in any of that, they have the muscle to wipe everyone but Google out of the way. But if Microsoft is involved, poor service and failed applications will soon follow. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Schmidt Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Holy cow! Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut Network Using 'White Spaces' John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband network in rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV channels. House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who represents rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a Webcast with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how wireless Interent connectivity can change their lives. The government is currently working on a national broadband plan, including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet. Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum in secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless Internet providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a potential service area to make it economically viable. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
We're a full C corporation. I never thought about Exit strategy but I have thought about the death of one of the partners, hopefully from natural causes and how their share should be handled. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Israel Lopez-LISTS Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements My rules are: Make it performance based Make sure what he is bringing to the table is equitable to the proposed share of the company Try to talk out exit strategy, where you are taking it, how you want to go and see if that matches up to what your new partner wants to do. This all depends on the business structure you have setup (which you havent mentioned) but I assume it is an LLC or Corporation for your state, make sure it is in writing. Watch this video if you want: http://vimeo.com/6950199 Good luck. -Israel Robert West wrote: I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical engineer, travels around the world as a contractor overseeing the repair and programming of robotics as well as the installation of the equipment. He says he's tired of being gone all the time and wants to stay in one area in a field that will be somewhat related and complicated enough that he won't get bored. Hm.. I've been to his home a few times, even put in a private wireless connection between him and his neighbor a mile away. Seems like a decent guy. Now he wants to sit down and work things out on paper. Any advice on things to cover my ass on? Things some of you wished you had down on paper when you started out? I'm not a partner kinda guy, my business plan is always in my head, I make much of it up as I go along and I jump in and just do things myself so this is new territory.(However, my total lack of organization is due to the previously stated operation of the business plan) I know some will yell to not take on a partner and I'd be one of them, believe me. That's why I've fought them off so long. But with a larger network coming online and eyes for even more expansion, it's looking good to me. (We currently only have a little less than 200 subs but anticipate twice if not 3 times that to come online in 2010) I just don't want to be out in the cold or screwed over due to my ability to trust. I'll never give up more than 50%, won't happen, but there are many ways people can screw others. It all sounds like picking the right person for marriage. (I have a bad track record in that too!!! ) Do ya think maybe him and I should just kinda date for awhile before we make the commitment? What would be considered first base in this kind of thing? Configuring a CPE after a few dates then moving on to a customer installation then if it all goes well, take the plunge and climb a tower together? Weird. Thanks. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
Thought about that too. I want to at least have control in policy and pricing. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements Don't do it... Or if you do do it make sure you have controlling interest in the company and can ultimately make any decision there is to be made. Consult lawyer do not do it on your own... That's my 2 cents :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:17 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical engineer, travels around the world as a contractor overseeing the repair and programming of robotics as well as the installation of the equipment. He says he's tired of being gone all the time and wants to stay in one area in a field that will be somewhat related and complicated enough that he won't get bored. Hm.. I've been to his home a few times, even put in a private wireless connection between him and his neighbor a mile away. Seems like a decent guy. Now he wants to sit down and work things out on paper. Any advice on things to cover my ass on? Things some of you wished you had down on paper when you started out? I'm not a partner kinda guy, my business plan is always in my head, I make much of it up as I go along and I jump in and just do things myself so this is new territory.(However, my total lack of organization is due to the previously stated operation of the business plan) I know some will yell to not take on a partner and I'd be one of them, believe me. That's why I've fought them off so long. But with a larger network coming online and eyes for even more expansion, it's looking good to me. (We currently only have a little less than 200 subs but anticipate twice if not 3 times that to come online in 2010) I just don't want to be out in the cold or screwed over due to my ability to trust. I'll never give up more than 50%, won't happen, but there are many ways people can screw others. It all sounds like picking the right person for marriage. (I have a bad track record in that too!!! ) Do ya think maybe him and I should just kinda date for awhile before we make the commitment? What would be considered first base in this kind of thing? Configuring a CPE after a few dates then moving on to a customer installation then if it all goes well, take the plunge and climb a tower together? Weird. Thanks. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing.
I dont think I want to know the details on that one.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. I sell MY junk on the street corner! On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: It's funny but I bet that happens. Good example of that is stolen man hole covers to be sold at the scrap yard, road signs and on the metal light poles, the little covers at the bottom that cover the electrical access.. They were stolen so much that now they dont even come with them. This sort of thing is why they now require picture ID when you sell your junk at the yard. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Hey someone was on my roof and stole my dish! Get your livestock offa my roof! mc On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I have a guy who pays his bill in dish mounts. $2 per mount delivered. We only accept the ones that are clean and reusable. He drops by every couple of weeks with 40-50 of them. Looks like they were removals from Dish/Direct TV. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:36 AM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Scottie, I've had some minor success by talking to a local metal scrap yard. It's a pretty good sized one, they put up a small sign at the pay window saying that if they get any tower sections to not crush or bend them. If they get a get sections they call and I go over. It's usually old American Tower 8 foot sections, like TV tower, but some are pretty useful. They charge usually 30 cents per pound and I pay a few cents over that for good sections in exchange for the sign next to the pay window. A month or so ago they called and I had to go out to a field to look at some that were too big for the metal collector guy to take into the yard. 2 80 foot heavy duty free standing towers in good shape laying in the field all overgrown with weeds. 150 bucks for the pair. Didn't know how much they weighed so I just offered the 150. They will also hold old DirectTV dishs and the J arm mounts for them if the sorters remember. Those are handy to have at 2 bucks each. As long as I pay more than scrap value, they are all over it. They usually have more stuff than I need though. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:25 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: motoro...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. What is a good price to give for a standard Rohn SSV tower, 100' with sections 7N, 6N, 5N, 4N, and 3WN in real good shape, each section still assembled, already down and ready for loading. I priced it new at around $8500. I have looked at www.usedtowers.com, but those are way higher than what I got this one for. I already won it at auction, but just checking to make sure I didn't screw up. Do any of you know where to find used towers besides qth.com, eham.net, ebay, and usedtowers.com? I have a few local places, but I am looking to expand my searches beyond those mentioned and local. TIA, Scottie Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing.
In WA state they are trying to make it a law that no cash leaves the scrapyard. Only checks dated 2 days in the future. Makes it harder to turn a quick buck on metal recycling ryan On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: It's funny but I bet that happens. Good example of that is stolen man hole covers to be sold at the scrap yard, road signs and on the metal light poles, the little covers at the bottom that cover the electrical access.. They were stolen so much that now they don’t even come with them. This sort of thing is why they now require picture ID when you sell your junk at the yard. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Hey someone was on my roof and stole my dish! Get your livestock offa my roof! mc On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I have a guy who pays his bill in dish mounts. $2 per mount delivered. We only accept the ones that are clean and reusable. He drops by every couple of weeks with 40-50 of them. Looks like they were removals from Dish/Direct TV. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:36 AM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Scottie, I've had some minor success by talking to a local metal scrap yard. It's a pretty good sized one, they put up a small sign at the pay window saying that if they get any tower sections to not crush or bend them. If they get a get sections they call and I go over. It's usually old American Tower 8 foot sections, like TV tower, but some are pretty useful. They charge usually 30 cents per pound and I pay a few cents over that for good sections in exchange for the sign next to the pay window. A month or so ago they called and I had to go out to a field to look at some that were too big for the metal collector guy to take into the yard. 2 80 foot heavy duty free standing towers in good shape laying in the field all overgrown with weeds. 150 bucks for the pair. Didn't know how much they weighed so I just offered the 150. They will also hold old DirectTV dishs and the J arm mounts for them if the sorters remember. Those are handy to have at 2 bucks each. As long as I pay more than scrap value, they are all over it. They usually have more stuff than I need though. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:25 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: motoro...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. What is a good price to give for a standard Rohn SSV tower, 100' with sections 7N, 6N, 5N, 4N, and 3WN in real good shape, each section still assembled, already down and ready for loading. I priced it new at around $8500. I have looked at www.usedtowers.com, but those are way higher than what I got this one for. I already won it at auction, but just checking to make sure I didn't screw up. Do any of you know where to find used towers besides qth.com, eham.net, ebay, and usedtowers.com? I have a few local places, but I am looking to expand my searches beyond those mentioned and local. TIA, Scottie Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
You need to finalize the divorce plans before getting married in business. Talk to a good business lawyer or you could end up having his wife be your partner or any number of other things that may be undesirable. Don't give away what you have worked on to this point by not being educated by a good lawyer. Tell your bride to be that he can put 5k towards legal consultation for you both before you make any decisions :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:31 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements We're a full C corporation. I never thought about Exit strategy but I have thought about the death of one of the partners, hopefully from natural causes and how their share should be handled. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Israel Lopez-LISTS Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements My rules are: Make it performance based Make sure what he is bringing to the table is equitable to the proposed share of the company Try to talk out exit strategy, where you are taking it, how you want to go and see if that matches up to what your new partner wants to do. This all depends on the business structure you have setup (which you havent mentioned) but I assume it is an LLC or Corporation for your state, make sure it is in writing. Watch this video if you want: http://vimeo.com/6950199 Good luck. -Israel Robert West wrote: I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical engineer, travels around the world as a contractor overseeing the repair and programming of robotics as well as the installation of the equipment. He says he's tired of being gone all the time and wants to stay in one area in a field that will be somewhat related and complicated enough that he won't get bored. Hm.. I've been to his home a few times, even put in a private wireless connection between him and his neighbor a mile away. Seems like a decent guy. Now he wants to sit down and work things out on paper. Any advice on things to cover my ass on? Things some of you wished you had down on paper when you started out? I'm not a partner kinda guy, my business plan is always in my head, I make much of it up as I go along and I jump in and just do things myself so this is new territory.(However, my total lack of organization is due to the previously stated operation of the business plan) I know some will yell to not take on a partner and I'd be one of them, believe me. That's why I've fought them off so long. But with a larger network coming online and eyes for even more expansion, it's looking good to me. (We currently only have a little less than 200 subs but anticipate twice if not 3 times that to come online in 2010) I just don't want to be out in the cold or screwed over due to my ability to trust. I'll never give up more than 50%, won't happen, but there are many ways people can screw others. It all sounds like picking the right person for marriage. (I have a bad track record in that too!!! ) Do ya think maybe him and I should just kinda date for awhile before we make the commitment? What would be considered first base in this kind of thing? Configuring a CPE after a few dates then moving on to a
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
Hiya Robert, First off, we've got nearly 7000 square miles of coverage (NOT all together in one area) and 600 wireless subs. Plus dialup and fiber (we're a fiber reseller so there's not much work involved most of the time). You may not really NEED a partner, rather a good secretary. We take care of all of our work with a slug of good consultants who only get paid when there is work to be done, myself and an office manager. My wife also pays the bills, that takes her 4 to 6 hours per week. If you do decide to partner do not go 50/50. Then everything ends up in court. Either take 51 or 49. Better yet try to go for a 60/40 split. grin Put each partner's duties on paper. Lay out in advance who's responsible for what. If you are technical and installation then YOU make those decisions. If he's paperwork and construction, then HE makes them, even if you don't like them ever time. I've been working in small businesses for a very long time. I get to know my customers. I see them come and go, a lot. One of the biggest things people point out, over and over, is the lack of pre set responsibilities. Sometimes people just naturally fit into their rolls and no one questions how things are done. Other times the rolls start to overlap and arguments happen. This is usually a harder thing to do with friends or family members. Having not done the partnership thing I can only give you advice that others have given me I've looked at trying to team up with some of my competitors and these are the things that seem to always get us stuck. If we can't get past them now, we will certainly have to deal with them later. Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:17 AM Subject: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical engineer, travels around the world as a contractor overseeing the repair and programming of robotics as well as the installation of the equipment. He says he's tired of being gone all the time and wants to stay in one area in a field that will be somewhat related and complicated enough that he won't get bored. Hm.. I've been to his home a few times, even put in a private wireless connection between him and his neighbor a mile away. Seems like a decent guy. Now he wants to sit down and work things out on paper. Any advice on things to cover my ass on? Things some of you wished you had down on paper when you started out? I'm not a partner kinda guy, my business plan is always in my head, I make much of it up as I go along and I jump in and just do things myself so this is new territory.(However, my total lack of organization is due to the previously stated operation of the business plan) I know some will yell to not take on a partner and I'd be one of them, believe me. That's why I've fought them off so long. But with a larger network coming online and eyes for even more expansion, it's looking good to me. (We currently only have a little less than 200 subs but anticipate twice if not 3 times that to come online in 2010) I just don't want to be out in the cold or screwed over due to my ability to trust. I'll never give up more than 50%, won't happen, but there are many ways people can screw others. It all sounds like picking the right person for marriage. (I have a bad track record in that too!!! ) Do ya think maybe him and I should just kinda date for awhile before we make the commitment? What would
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
Three methods in order of best to worst: Buyout *Pay the guy a good salary, buy his equipment, buy this and that but do not give controlling interest/stock Cooperation *This never works don't even try Partnership *You better get a whole hell of a lot before trying this as this ends many small companies. In the last several years I have seen it quite a few (frustration, incompatibility, whatever) 50/50 hardly ever works out - if one goes left and the other right, you're not moving. 51/49 or 60/40 is strongly suggested. Talk to a lawyer. Be sure the lawyer understands what you want. The lawyer is the only way to truly cover your ass. Unfortunately, if you don't already have one you do not know how good one will be until you give them a chance. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Hiya Robert, First off, we've got nearly 7000 square miles of coverage (NOT all together in one area) and 600 wireless subs. Plus dialup and fiber (we're a fiber reseller so there's not much work involved most of the time). You may not really NEED a partner, rather a good secretary. We take care of all of our work with a slug of good consultants who only get paid when there is work to be done, myself and an office manager. My wife also pays the bills, that takes her 4 to 6 hours per week. If you do decide to partner do not go 50/50. Then everything ends up in court. Either take 51 or 49. Better yet try to go for a 60/40 split. grin Put each partner's duties on paper. Lay out in advance who's responsible for what. If you are technical and installation then YOU make those decisions. If he's paperwork and construction, then HE makes them, even if you don't like them ever time. I've been working in small businesses for a very long time. I get to know my customers. I see them come and go, a lot. One of the biggest things people point out, over and over, is the lack of pre set responsibilities. Sometimes people just naturally fit into their rolls and no one questions how things are done. Other times the rolls start to overlap and arguments happen. This is usually a harder thing to do with friends or family members. Having not done the partnership thing I can only give you advice that others have given me I've looked at trying to team up with some of my competitors and these are the things that seem to always get us stuck. If we can't get past them now, we will certainly have to deal with them later. Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:17 AM Subject: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical engineer, travels around the world as a contractor overseeing the repair and programming of robotics as well as the installation of the equipment. He says he's tired of being gone all the time and wants to stay in one area in a field that will be somewhat related and complicated enough that he won't get bored. Hm.. I've been to his home a few times, even put in a private wireless connection between him and his neighbor a mile away. Seems like a decent guy. Now he wants to sit down and work things out on paper. Any advice on things to cover my ass on?
Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing.
That will not work. Federal banking laws make it illegal to write any other date other tan the present on a bearer instrument That's an uphill battle. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:34:13 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. In WA state they are trying to make it a law that no cash leaves the scrapyard. Only checks dated 2 days in the future. Makes it harder to turn a quick buck on metal recycling ryan On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: It's funny but I bet that happens. Good example of that is stolen man hole covers to be sold at the scrap yard, road signs and on the metal light poles, the little covers at the bottom that cover the electrical access.. They were stolen so much that now they don’t even come with them. This sort of thing is why they now require picture ID when you sell your junk at the yard. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Hey someone was on my roof and stole my dish! Get your livestock offa my roof! mc On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I have a guy who pays his bill in dish mounts. $2 per mount delivered. We only accept the ones that are clean and reusable. He drops by every couple of weeks with 40-50 of them. Looks like they were removals from Dish/Direct TV. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:36 AM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Scottie, I've had some minor success by talking to a local metal scrap yard. It's a pretty good sized one, they put up a small sign at the pay window saying that if they get any tower sections to not crush or bend them. If they get a get sections they call and I go over. It's usually old American Tower 8 foot sections, like TV tower, but some are pretty useful. They charge usually 30 cents per pound and I pay a few cents over that for good sections in exchange for the sign next to the pay window. A month or so ago they called and I had to go out to a field to look at some that were too big for the metal collector guy to take into the yard. 2 80 foot heavy duty free standing towers in good shape laying in the field all overgrown with weeds. 150 bucks for the pair. Didn't know how much they weighed so I just offered the 150. They will also hold old DirectTV dishs and the J arm mounts for them if the sorters remember. Those are handy to have at 2 bucks each. As long as I pay more than scrap value, they are all over it. They usually have more stuff than I need though. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:25 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: motoro...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. What is a good price to give for a standard Rohn SSV tower, 100' with sections 7N, 6N, 5N, 4N, and 3WN in real good shape, each section still assembled, already down and ready for loading. I priced it new at around $8500. I have looked at www.usedtowers.com, but those are way higher than what I got this one for. I already won it at auction, but just checking to make sure I didn't screw up. Do any of you know where to find used towers besides qth.com, eham.net, ebay, and usedtowers.com? I have a few local places, but I am looking to expand my searches beyond those mentioned and local. TIA, Scottie Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!
My question is how fast can their internet go using tv whitespace? Sprint used to serve this area with an unutilized tv channel and it was SLOW. I guess if you had nothing else but if it can't go one MB its not on my radar of concern. Actually in our market if you cant deliver 10-20MB your not playing the game. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:49 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! See the attached Case Study and Press Release. jack Jonathan Schmidt wrote: Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut Network Using 'White Spaces' John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband network in rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV channels. House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who represents rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a Webcast with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how wireless Interent connectivity can change their lives. The government is currently working on a national broadband plan, including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet. Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum in secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless Internet providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a potential service area to make it economically viable. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
Robert, A good partnership agreement / shareholder agreement is a necessity if you are going to take on a partner and make your business venture a success. There are a lot of considerations: How to split profits How to split losses How to elect a board of directors How to make management decisions (usually voting control of the board) How to handle stalemates If the company is in need of money what sort of future contributions will be required and how will those future contributions effect equity Is each partner/shareholder responsible for existing debts/liabilities of the company? Is each partner/shareholder entitled to any sort of salary? (what if the partner gets sick, cannot work, or will not work?) Under what circumstances may a partner/shareholder draw money out of the company? Is a partner entitled to work for the company or can a partner be fired as an employee - if so, does that partner retain his equity in the company? What happens when you want to add new partners? What happens when a partner wants to cash-out? Can a partner sell his interest to just anyone or must 100% of the partners agree to the sale or must the sale be ONLY to existing partners? What happens when a partner dies, gets a divorce, or files bankruptcy? How does the company get valued if a buyout is required? Do you mediate or arbitrate disputes or do you immediately go to court to resolve legal issues? What about competition - can a partner compete? Can an ex-partner compete? Define competition - can a (ex)partner hire away your employees? Can a (ex) partner solicit your customers? For how long after a breakup must an (ex)partner remain out of the field? Is a (ex)partner limited only from providing wireless access services or is he limited from web hosting, web design, computer repair, etc. The list goes on and on. I've handled several partnership/shareholder agreements and with the use of a good template and a good understanding of the WISP business, it's possible to put together a plan to protect yourself and your potential business partners from future disagreements. Trust only goes so far eventually something unforeseen will happen and when it does you want to make sure that you have a document to cover your basis. Regards, Larry Yunker II, Esq. Barkan Robon, Ltd. (419) 897-6500 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:17 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical engineer, travels around the world as a contractor overseeing the repair and programming of robotics as well as the installation of the equipment. He says he's tired of being gone all the time and wants to stay in one area in a field that will be somewhat related and complicated enough that he won't get bored. Hm.. I've been to his home a few times, even put in a private wireless connection between him and his neighbor a mile away. Seems like a decent guy. Now he wants to sit down and work things out on paper. Any advice on things to cover my ass on? Things some of you wished you had down on paper when you started out? I'm not a partner kinda guy, my business plan is always in my head, I make much of it up as I go along and I jump in and just do things myself so this is new territory.(However, my total lack of organization is due to the previously stated operation of the business plan) I know some will yell to not take on a partner and I'd be one of them, believe me. That's why I've fought them off so long. But with a larger network coming
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
A good lawyer around here is tough. I have honestly used 5 different lawyers in the past 2 years. They always know but they are always wrong. I hate that... Need to find a good one but it's not like a TV where I can read reviews! Yes, they do have legal reviews but it all seems like self hype and advertising. Just as can be expected with lawyers... -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements Three methods in order of best to worst: Buyout *Pay the guy a good salary, buy his equipment, buy this and that but do not give controlling interest/stock Cooperation *This never works don't even try Partnership *You better get a whole hell of a lot before trying this as this ends many small companies. In the last several years I have seen it quite a few (frustration, incompatibility, whatever) 50/50 hardly ever works out - if one goes left and the other right, you're not moving. 51/49 or 60/40 is strongly suggested. Talk to a lawyer. Be sure the lawyer understands what you want. The lawyer is the only way to truly cover your ass. Unfortunately, if you don't already have one you do not know how good one will be until you give them a chance. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Hiya Robert, First off, we've got nearly 7000 square miles of coverage (NOT all together in one area) and 600 wireless subs. Plus dialup and fiber (we're a fiber reseller so there's not much work involved most of the time). You may not really NEED a partner, rather a good secretary. We take care of all of our work with a slug of good consultants who only get paid when there is work to be done, myself and an office manager. My wife also pays the bills, that takes her 4 to 6 hours per week. If you do decide to partner do not go 50/50. Then everything ends up in court. Either take 51 or 49. Better yet try to go for a 60/40 split. grin Put each partner's duties on paper. Lay out in advance who's responsible for what. If you are technical and installation then YOU make those decisions. If he's paperwork and construction, then HE makes them, even if you don't like them ever time. I've been working in small businesses for a very long time. I get to know my customers. I see them come and go, a lot. One of the biggest things people point out, over and over, is the lack of pre set responsibilities. Sometimes people just naturally fit into their rolls and no one questions how things are done. Other times the rolls start to overlap and arguments happen. This is usually a harder thing to do with friends or family members. Having not done the partnership thing I can only give you advice that others have given me I've looked at trying to team up with some of my competitors and these are the things that seem to always get us stuck. If we can't get past them now, we will certainly have to deal with them later. Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:17 AM Subject: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical
Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!
IIRC, 6 mhz channels were proponed on the FCC RO, you could bond them... so with current OFDM technologies you can get 10 - 12 Mbps on a 6 mhz channel. Not bad for a NLOS, self install and mobile probability Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! My question is how fast can their internet go using tv whitespace? Sprint used to serve this area with an unutilized tv channel and it was SLOW. I guess if you had nothing else but if it can't go one MB its not on my radar of concern. Actually in our market if you cant deliver 10-20MB your not playing the game. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:49 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! See the attached Case Study and Press Release. jack Jonathan Schmidt wrote: Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut Network Using 'White Spaces' John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband network in rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV channels. House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who represents rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a Webcast with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how wireless Interent connectivity can change their lives. The government is currently working on a national broadband plan, including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet. Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum in secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless Internet providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a potential service area to make it economically viable. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
I will share a couple of pointers... Besides getting professional advise from an Accountant / Lawyer / and your Business Insurance Adviser. Partnership is an ownership arrangement, which IS NOT the same as Owner's Compensation Arrangement. We have passive partners who do not draw compensation from the Company. ($0 salary for being a partner, Active Partners earn a Salary for filling a certain position and doing their job). Partners do get to participate in the Overall strategy and direction of the company, Active partners are trusted to make the day to day stuff work. Partners, participate in the net earnings distribution of the company profits after all expenses and salaries are paid. The agreements that you have to agree upon before getting into a partnership are :- First: ... Separation Agreement, there is a lot that goes into this...in addition you can do things like (we have a 'gunshot'clause. If I want to buy out my partner, and decide to put a value to his shares, then he has the right of first refusal to by my shares out at the same value...) Second: Compensation Agreement, (Salary Allocation based on Job Responsibility etc. No Salary for just being a partner) Third: ...Ownership Agreement. (based upon what is being brought to the table.) Forth: . Buyout of a partners shares in case of death. (Our partners are in agreement that in case of one of us expiring, the others have no desire to be forced to work the businesses with the partners surviving family member, so we have life insurance oneach other for the sole purpose of using it to buy out the other partners shares in case of death). - If the above is done up front, which is a Lot of Work Upfront, then things do not need to get nasty at the back end. We have been thru full cycle, and did not have any hesitation in taking on another new partner. - Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:31 AM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements Thought about that too. I want to at least have control in policy and pricing. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements Don't do it... Or if you do do it make sure you have controlling interest in the company and can ultimately make any decision there is to be made. Consult lawyer do not do it on your own... That's my 2 cents :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:17 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical engineer, travels around the world as a contractor overseeing the repair and programming of robotics as well as the installation of the equipment. He says he's tired of being gone all the time and wants to stay in one area in a field that will be somewhat related and complicated enough that he won't get bored. Hm.. I've been to his home a few times, even put in a private wireless connection between him and his neighbor a mile away. Seems like
Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing.
In Ohio, not sure of other states, but if you write a check with a date that is not the date you write it, it becomes an IOU. We had a guy in the area who was writing checks on a closed account and was putting the next month as the date. Had the right day and year but post dated them all for the next month. How could he prove it? He was taken to court and all the stamps on the check from the bank was in the month before the month on the check. Loop hole. He got off and the people with the bum checks have to sue him as a debtor. Good luck on that one! He was smarter than the system. Yes, we have one of the checks. 40 bucks, -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. That will not work. Federal banking laws make it illegal to write any other date other tan the present on a bearer instrument That's an uphill battle. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:34:13 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. In WA state they are trying to make it a law that no cash leaves the scrapyard. Only checks dated 2 days in the future. Makes it harder to turn a quick buck on metal recycling ryan On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: It's funny but I bet that happens. Good example of that is stolen man hole covers to be sold at the scrap yard, road signs and on the metal light poles, the little covers at the bottom that cover the electrical access.. They were stolen so much that now they dont even come with them. This sort of thing is why they now require picture ID when you sell your junk at the yard. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Hey someone was on my roof and stole my dish! Get your livestock offa my roof! mc On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I have a guy who pays his bill in dish mounts. $2 per mount delivered. We only accept the ones that are clean and reusable. He drops by every couple of weeks with 40-50 of them. Looks like they were removals from Dish/Direct TV. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:36 AM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Scottie, I've had some minor success by talking to a local metal scrap yard. It's a pretty good sized one, they put up a small sign at the pay window saying that if they get any tower sections to not crush or bend them. If they get a get sections they call and I go over. It's usually old American Tower 8 foot sections, like TV tower, but some are pretty useful. They charge usually 30 cents per pound and I pay a few cents over that for good sections in exchange for the sign next to the pay window. A month or so ago they called and I had to go out to a field to look at some that were too big for the metal collector guy to take into the yard. 2 80 foot heavy duty free standing towers in good shape laying in the field all overgrown with weeds. 150 bucks for the pair. Didn't know how much they weighed so I just offered the 150. They will also hold old DirectTV dishs and the J arm mounts for them if the sorters remember. Those are handy to have at 2 bucks each. As long as I pay more than scrap value, they are all over it. They usually have more stuff than I need though. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:25 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: motoro...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. What is a good price to give for a standard Rohn SSV tower, 100' with sections 7N, 6N, 5N, 4N, and 3WN in real good shape, each section still assembled, already down and ready for loading. I priced it new at around $8500. I have looked at www.usedtowers.com, but those are way higher than what I got this one for. I already won it at auction, but just checking to make sure I didn't screw up. Do any of you know where to find used towers besides qth.com, eham.net, ebay, and usedtowers.com? I have a few local places, but I am looking to expand my searches beyond those mentioned and local. TIA, Scottie Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
I'm not sure how Equinix is in other cities, but in Chicago, they are just one tenant among many in the building. Equinix charges a lot for everything. If you can find another tenant such as TelX or a web host, I'd go there (depending on cross connect charges). It's transit. Usually in the metro areas, transit is cheaper than transport because with transport they have to be able to carry 100% of the traffic to wherever it's going. With transit, they can offload (maybe significant) portions of the traffic to other carriers within the building instead of on their 10GigEs going elsewhere. I'd recommend that anyone in a metro area *investigate* dark fiber thoroughly. I'm too small to buy it on my own, but depending on the market, dark fiber can be cheap and get you to where you need to be. It's not always in the right spots outside of the carrier hotels, but usually that can be solved by short builds or wireless. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams HE even has $1250 GEs Wow, is that transport or transit? Yeah, 2 months ago, we were going to get an Abovenet transport to Hurricain transit because Hurricane's market low pricing, but then Equinix started giving us a hard time on colo, trying to charge us more for the colo than both the transport and transit links combined, so we pulled the plug on the order. Hurricaine had the $2 /mb on GIg-E as long as also do IPv6 w/ IPv4. But where HE did better is they also gave good pricing on the low capacity commits. That makes it cost effective to give HE a try, before going all out, provided you're in a colo they are at. We also found a couple providers that had some really cool programs like you commit to a monthly dollar figure, but could accept the bandwdith from any Equinix facility or distributed between several of them, and move the capacity on the fly to either location. It was great option for someone wanting to expand nationwide, but not knowing where sales will develop first more. But it also allowed Gig-E pricing without having to pay for GIg-E in multiple locations. Its to bad its at Equinix though, cause a lot of teh value proposition got killed once transport added to it to get out to remote cell site, or Equinix's clueless overcharging of antenna roof space. Again its really sad when someone tried to charge more for an antenna position than a GIg-E fiber link. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Not to you, but to the thread: Cogent isn't even the low cost leader anymore. PCCW is often cheaper as is HE. HE even has $1250 GEs and $400 FEs. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Brad, Once again I disagree. Cogent represents themselves as low cost, but they have never represented themselves as low quality. Second, Cogent is most ideal as the FIRST PRIMARY provider, because Cogent is higher performing, and faster speed connections are more affordable. I agree, a backup secondary provider is needed to help when there are short outages. The backup providers dont need to be as high a capacity, or as quality, as they are seldom used exempt in the rare emergencies. Third, What determines how inexpensive a Transit provider is has nothing to do with Quality, it has to do with who has more settlement free peers. Cogent costs less, because Cogent has to pay fewer other ISPs for capacity. This DOES NOT mean they use low quality public peering, it means that they have more quality private peering negotiated at better terms. Bottom line is any carrier can break That, I agree with. Which is why its important to have two upstreams. But, that is not a reason to not buy Cogent first. By buying Cogent first it allows a provider to become more profitable sooner, and therefore able to afford sooner multiple upstreams. Its also depends on what the downstream offers in its value proposition. With Cogent, I offer my custoemrs Gig-E when others can offer 100mb. With Cogent, I can offer my customers half the price, if not 1/3rd the price that my tier2 competitiors can offer. With Cogent, I offer excellent performance, better than most, most of the time, and if they get an outage so what. Is it really better to
Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!
Yes but out here in BFE, they can get dialup on very bad phone lines, Wild Blue or cell card. Offering 512k in a market such as mine will have them beating down your doors. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! My question is how fast can their internet go using tv whitespace? Sprint used to serve this area with an unutilized tv channel and it was SLOW. I guess if you had nothing else but if it can't go one MB its not on my radar of concern. Actually in our market if you cant deliver 10-20MB your not playing the game. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:49 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! See the attached Case Study and Press Release. jack Jonathan Schmidt wrote: Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut Network Using 'White Spaces' John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband network in rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV channels. House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who represents rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a Webcast with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how wireless Interent connectivity can change their lives. The government is currently working on a national broadband plan, including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet. Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum in secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless Internet providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a potential service area to make it economically viable. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
That sort of information would be impossible to have without the carrier providing it. The more peers a carrier has, the less finger pointing can go on. If L(3) or Cogent are your carriers and you're having connectivity issues to someone else that also uses them, they can't blame anyone because they're the only ones. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:59 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Useful site. I found it particular intersting that Level3 was high up on all teh stats. These are all good metric for evaluating provider's peering relevence and size. What these sites dont help with is tell you the capacity or throughput accross the routes. A company could have 1000 more peers than someone else, but if they were all 100 mbps peers, it might not deliver near as much performance if all the peers were 10GB. What would be interesting would be to have stats on average capacity per peer connection. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Many carriers swap routes around. http://www.fixedorbit.com/stats.htm http://www.fixedorbit.com/AS/2/AS2828.htm According to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_network XO has paid peering with Sprint and L3, but some information on that page isn't exactly current with things I've heard elsewhere. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:31 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Isn't XO a Level3 reseller? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: It should be noted that an Upstreams performance can be directly proportional to the location where they have more peering. In the DC and NY markets, Cogent has excellent performance and peering, and has shown to outperform EVERY provider we have tried, period. (And yes, some of the carriers we tried were Level3, XO, and Abovenet.) I recognize that Cogent's performance may not be as good for ALL markets where they potentially could have a weaker presence. But saying Cogent is only worthy of the 3rd or 4th transit connection is simply untrue. Cogent's weak point now is internal processes and communication. They've lost touch with the value of having personal Account Reps, and render the reps powerless to manage the accounts, in favor of the customer relationship managed by the clueless billing/collections department. Its a shame. You might even get away with saying Cogent has a few more short duration (less than 15 minutes?) outages than other carriers. But their tech support has been the best by far in the industry, and oversubscription has never been a problem from what I see. In picking a Transit provider its really a decision about where your traffic typically flows, and where you need good performance to. NOT anyone has best performance everywhere. For example, Hurricane has excellent performance AND they are inexpensive. They have a really good peering presensence in CA. I'm not confident that they have nearly as good a presence on the East coast though, but those that have used them on teh east coast that I know have been happy. We were considering using them. Abovenet has great Gig-E Transport. But their transit is expensive, and its because its more expensive for them to provide it, because they are not as well positioned to do it cost effectively, not because its necessarilly better. Level3 as well, has many strength. They have a lot of web host clients. It can really help performance to reach certain sites. Level3 also tends to blocks smaller BGP block announcements, more so than someone like Cogent. Level3 is good for a secondaryu because they usually have diverse routes. Some providers have good performance to France, Amsterdam, India, others dont. Savvis tends to have real peering to NY finacnial markets. I often see Blended bandwdith combining Global Cross and Level3, not sure why these two are chosen as a pair. Maybe its simply becaue they tend to be colocated at the same carrier hotels? But selecting a transit provider is not as simple as saying one is
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
Hit me offlist I can recommend an excellent one that is very familiar with your business because he handles mine. Sharpest lawyer I ever worked with. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:04 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements A good lawyer around here is tough. I have honestly used 5 different lawyers in the past 2 years. They always know but they are always wrong. I hate that... Need to find a good one but it's not like a TV where I can read reviews! Yes, they do have legal reviews but it all seems like self hype and advertising. Just as can be expected with lawyers... -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements Three methods in order of best to worst: Buyout *Pay the guy a good salary, buy his equipment, buy this and that but do not give controlling interest/stock Cooperation *This never works don't even try Partnership *You better get a whole hell of a lot before trying this as this ends many small companies. In the last several years I have seen it quite a few (frustration, incompatibility, whatever) 50/50 hardly ever works out - if one goes left and the other right, you're not moving. 51/49 or 60/40 is strongly suggested. Talk to a lawyer. Be sure the lawyer understands what you want. The lawyer is the only way to truly cover your ass. Unfortunately, if you don't already have one you do not know how good one will be until you give them a chance. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Hiya Robert, First off, we've got nearly 7000 square miles of coverage (NOT all together in one area) and 600 wireless subs. Plus dialup and fiber (we're a fiber reseller so there's not much work involved most of the time). You may not really NEED a partner, rather a good secretary. We take care of all of our work with a slug of good consultants who only get paid when there is work to be done, myself and an office manager. My wife also pays the bills, that takes her 4 to 6 hours per week. If you do decide to partner do not go 50/50. Then everything ends up in court. Either take 51 or 49. Better yet try to go for a 60/40 split. grin Put each partner's duties on paper. Lay out in advance who's responsible for what. If you are technical and installation then YOU make those decisions. If he's paperwork and construction, then HE makes them, even if you don't like them ever time. I've been working in small businesses for a very long time. I get to know my customers. I see them come and go, a lot. One of the biggest things people point out, over and over, is the lack of pre set responsibilities. Sometimes people just naturally fit into their rolls and no one questions how things are done. Other times the rolls start to overlap and arguments happen. This is usually a harder thing to do with friends or family members. Having not done the partnership thing I can only give you advice that others have given me I've looked at trying to team up with some of my competitors and these are the things that seem to always get us stuck. If we can't get past them now, we will certainly have to deal with them later. Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:17 AM Subject: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
We got severely screwed during the MCI-Verizon transition. They stopped billing us our overage on our DS-3 for about 6-8 months. We just assumed we hadn't gone over our base rate. All of a sudden, we get an invoice in the mail for something like $20k+. The very next day we get a call from collections asking why we haven't paid our bill and that it's past due. We explain that we just received it and explained how they put all the charges in for their original dates instead of for the invoice date. Next day, our service goes down. We are on the phone calling everyone. Support says our circuit is up and everything is fine. Get a hold of billing and they say we were shut off for non-payment. We pay the bill over the phone and the circuit is still down for several hours. We call for days asking for answers and no one knows what happened or why we were down. Support says it was a problem with our equipment and that the circuit wasn't turned off due to non-payment. We had already setup another connection but didn't have a backhaul big enough to handle our traffic yet. Needless to say, we moved all traffic off that circuit the next day and called and cancelled the Verizon DS-3. Now, for the funny part. We cancelled the service as fast as we could per our contract. Something like 30 days notice or something. But even after that, they left the circuit up and running. We disconnected it from our router it was still connected to the CSU. About three months later, they actually pull the circuit. We get a call from support telling us that it appears our connection is down and to check our equipment! I explained that the reason it was down was due to the cancellation. They still tried to bill us for the time of cancellation until they removed the circuit. Lots of fighting later, even after showing them their letter confirming our cancellation after received our certified letter, I don't think it was ever resolved. The circuit was originally purchased from UUNET and there were great. MCI acquired them and support went downhill fast. Like Cogent, you could have someone at UUNET look at BGP problems 24/7. Once MCI took over, they only had an engineer available M-F,8-5. Once Verizon took over, it was absolutely terrible. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Worldcom was the worst for billing issues. MCI was the bomb before they were assimilated. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: AboveNET will layout the exact path your fiber feed will be for you. Just make sure you're secondary path is completely diverse from whatever you choose as your primary. My suggestion would be to go with AboveNET or Level3 as your primary and use Cogent as your secondary. We haven't had any billing issues with any of our upstream providers that wasn't easily straightened out. Maybe we've just been lucky or maybe we just review our agreements more closely and haven't allowed for any chance of discrepancies. As they say...YMMV! Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Our situation is thus: We are leasing a 45 Mile1 Gig fiber link from Greenville TX to 2323 Bryan ST. in Dallas (carrier hotel). My primary need is quality bandwidth. This will become my preferred route to the world. Secondary requirement is a company I won't have to spend 1 year working to get the billing correct. I am installing a 1 Gig (800M/800M) licensed PTP link from my NOC to another lit building in Richardson TX for path diversity. The choice of carriers here will be more limited. With Abovenet being one of the primary choices. I do not want this connection to go to the same carrier as the other connection. It's really kind of funny I was just a few years ago (12) when bonded 6 T's together and thought I had all the bandwidth in the world! Now I'll have and additional 2G at my NOC for less than I was paying for the 6 Ts. Marco WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C.
Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!
6 MHz is correct. Self-install is unlikely. Mobile is highly questionable. Gino Villarini wrote: IIRC, 6 mhz channels were proponed on the FCC RO, you could bond them... so with current OFDM technologies you can get 10 - 12 Mbps on a 6 mhz channel. Not bad for a NLOS, self install and mobile probability Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! My question is how fast can their internet go using tv whitespace? Sprint used to serve this area with an unutilized tv channel and it was SLOW. I guess if you had nothing else but if it can't go one MB its not on my radar of concern. Actually in our market if you cant deliver 10-20MB your not playing the game. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: "Jack Unger" jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:49 AM To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! See the attached Case Study and Press Release. jack Jonathan Schmidt wrote: Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut Network Using 'White Spaces' John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband network in rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV channels. House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who represents rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a Webcast with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how wireless Interent connectivity can change their lives. The government is currently working on a national broadband plan, including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet. Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum in secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless Internet providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a potential service area to make it economically viable. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString...
Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!
Spectrum is spectrum. 6 MHz of space at 300 MHz is just as fast as 6 MHz at 5 GHz or 600 GHz. That said, each TV channel is 6 MHz and the radio must support bonding (in my opinion) to be useful. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:58 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! My question is how fast can their internet go using tv whitespace? Sprint used to serve this area with an unutilized tv channel and it was SLOW. I guess if you had nothing else but if it can't go one MB its not on my radar of concern. Actually in our market if you cant deliver 10-20MB your not playing the game. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:49 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! See the attached Case Study and Press Release. jack Jonathan Schmidt wrote: Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut Network Using 'White Spaces' John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband network in rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV channels. House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who represents rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a Webcast with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how wireless Interent connectivity can change their lives. The government is currently working on a national broadband plan, including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet. Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum in secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless Internet providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a potential service area to make it economically viable. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
Hold that... UUNET, not MCI On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Worldcom was the worst for billing issues. MCI was the bomb before they were assimilated. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: AboveNET will layout the exact path your fiber feed will be for you. Just make sure you're secondary path is completely diverse from whatever you choose as your primary. My suggestion would be to go with AboveNET or Level3 as your primary and use Cogent as your secondary. We haven't had any billing issues with any of our upstream providers that wasn't easily straightened out. Maybe we've just been lucky or maybe we just review our agreements more closely and haven't allowed for any chance of discrepancies. As they say...YMMV! Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Our situation is thus: We are leasing a 45 Mile1 Gig fiber link from Greenville TX to 2323 Bryan ST. in Dallas (carrier hotel). My primary need is quality bandwidth. This will become my preferred route to the world. Secondary requirement is a company I won't have to spend 1 year working to get the billing correct. I am installing a 1 Gig (800M/800M) licensed PTP link from my NOC to another lit building in Richardson TX for path diversity. The choice of carriers here will be more limited. With Abovenet being one of the primary choices. I do not want this connection to go to the same carrier as the other connection. It's really kind of funny I was just a few years ago (12) when bonded 6 T's together and thought I had all the bandwidth in the world! Now I'll have and additional 2G at my NOC for less than I was paying for the 6 Ts. Marco WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes
To list members: Yesterday, Redline hosted a conference call with 15 operator participants to kick off a coalition of operators who have deployed or plan to deploy broadband wireless systems in the 3.65 GHz band in the US, with the goal to discuss the current license exempt rules, some of the coexistence issues being experienced in the field, suggestions for improvements/resolution, and the necessary steps to influence change within the FCC. I encourage any interested operators (or vendors) to contact Keith Doucet, Redline's VP Customer Advocacy (kdou...@redlinecommunications.com or +1.905.479.8344 x2298). Keith has participated in the rule setting for the 3.65 GHz band in Canada and has extensive experience in working with regulators internationally. Keith plans on hosting a follow-up call next week on this topic. Thanks, Kevin Redline Communications Inc. Kevin Suitor Vice President, Corporate Marketing 302 Town Centre Blvd. Markham, ON L3R 0E8 CANADA o: +1 905.948.2299 f: +1 647.723.0451 m: +1 416.508.1252 Skype: ksuitor e-mail: ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Web: www.redlinecommunications.com Advancing Broadband Wireless - Putting WiMAX in Motion Think green before printing this email IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify Redline immediately by email at postmas...@redlinecommunications.com. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
Find the most trustworthy, successful businesses in your area and get referrals for a lawyer. -RickG On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: A good lawyer around here is tough. I have honestly used 5 different lawyers in the past 2 years. They always know but they are always wrong. I hate that... Need to find a good one but it's not like a TV where I can read reviews! Yes, they do have legal reviews but it all seems like self hype and advertising. Just as can be expected with lawyers... -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements Three methods in order of best to worst: Buyout *Pay the guy a good salary, buy his equipment, buy this and that but do not give controlling interest/stock Cooperation *This never works don't even try Partnership *You better get a whole hell of a lot before trying this as this ends many small companies. In the last several years I have seen it quite a few (frustration, incompatibility, whatever) 50/50 hardly ever works out - if one goes left and the other right, you're not moving. 51/49 or 60/40 is strongly suggested. Talk to a lawyer. Be sure the lawyer understands what you want. The lawyer is the only way to truly cover your ass. Unfortunately, if you don't already have one you do not know how good one will be until you give them a chance. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Hiya Robert, First off, we've got nearly 7000 square miles of coverage (NOT all together in one area) and 600 wireless subs. Plus dialup and fiber (we're a fiber reseller so there's not much work involved most of the time). You may not really NEED a partner, rather a good secretary. We take care of all of our work with a slug of good consultants who only get paid when there is work to be done, myself and an office manager. My wife also pays the bills, that takes her 4 to 6 hours per week. If you do decide to partner do not go 50/50. Then everything ends up in court. Either take 51 or 49. Better yet try to go for a 60/40 split. grin Put each partner's duties on paper. Lay out in advance who's responsible for what. If you are technical and installation then YOU make those decisions. If he's paperwork and construction, then HE makes them, even if you don't like them ever time. I've been working in small businesses for a very long time. I get to know my customers. I see them come and go, a lot. One of the biggest things people point out, over and over, is the lack of pre set responsibilities. Sometimes people just naturally fit into their rolls and no one questions how things are done. Other times the rolls start to overlap and arguments happen. This is usually a harder thing to do with friends or family members. Having not done the partnership thing I can only give you advice that others have given me I've looked at trying to team up with some of my competitors and these are the things that seem to always get us stuck. If we can't get past them now, we will certainly have to deal with them later. Hope that helps, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:17 AM Subject: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely
Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing.
Regardless, the state is looking for a method of reducing the steal-copper-from-YOUR-tower-in-exchange-for-quick-cash/fix opportunities. I thought it was pretty cool. ryan On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: In Ohio, not sure of other states, but if you write a check with a date that is not the date you write it, it becomes an IOU. We had a guy in the area who was writing checks on a closed account and was putting the next month as the date. Had the right day and year but post dated them all for the next month. How could he prove it? He was taken to court and all the stamps on the check from the bank was in the month before the month on the check. Loop hole. He got off and the people with the bum checks have to sue him as a debtor. Good luck on that one! He was smarter than the system. Yes, we have one of the checks. 40 bucks, -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. That will not work. Federal banking laws make it illegal to write any other date other tan the present on a bearer instrument That's an uphill battle. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:34:13 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. In WA state they are trying to make it a law that no cash leaves the scrapyard. Only checks dated 2 days in the future. Makes it harder to turn a quick buck on metal recycling ryan On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: It's funny but I bet that happens. Good example of that is stolen man hole covers to be sold at the scrap yard, road signs and on the metal light poles, the little covers at the bottom that cover the electrical access.. They were stolen so much that now they don’t even come with them. This sort of thing is why they now require picture ID when you sell your junk at the yard. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Hey someone was on my roof and stole my dish! Get your livestock offa my roof! mc On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I have a guy who pays his bill in dish mounts. $2 per mount delivered. We only accept the ones that are clean and reusable. He drops by every couple of weeks with 40-50 of them. Looks like they were removals from Dish/Direct TV. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:36 AM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Scottie, I've had some minor success by talking to a local metal scrap yard. It's a pretty good sized one, they put up a small sign at the pay window saying that if they get any tower sections to not crush or bend them. If they get a get sections they call and I go over. It's usually old American Tower 8 foot sections, like TV tower, but some are pretty useful. They charge usually 30 cents per pound and I pay a few cents over that for good sections in exchange for the sign next to the pay window. A month or so ago they called and I had to go out to a field to look at some that were too big for the metal collector guy to take into the yard. 2 80 foot heavy duty free standing towers in good shape laying in the field all overgrown with weeds. 150 bucks for the pair. Didn't know how much they weighed so I just offered the 150. They will also hold old DirectTV dishs and the J arm mounts for them if the sorters remember. Those are handy to have at 2 bucks each. As long as I pay more than scrap value, they are all over it. They usually have more stuff than I need though. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:25 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: motoro...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. What is a good price to give for a standard Rohn SSV tower, 100' with sections 7N, 6N, 5N, 4N, and 3WN in real good shape, each section still assembled, already down and ready for loading. I priced it new at around $8500. I have looked at www.usedtowers.com, but those are way higher than what I got this one for. I already won it at auction, but just checking to make sure I didn't screw up. Do
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
On Thu, 2009-10-22 at 12:14 -0400, can...@believewireless.net wrote: The circuit was originally purchased from UUNET and there were great. MCI acquired them and support went downhill fast. Like Cogent, you could have someone at UUNET look at BGP problems 24/7. Once MCI took over, they only had an engineer available M-F,8-5. Once Verizon took over, it was absolutely terrible. That's because all their engineers are following cell phone users around :). Yeah we had a similar problem with Verizon many years ago and won't even talk to their sales person when he tries to sell us service today...like I want to buy from Verizon who has to back-haul the circuit via FairPoint...Yikes!!! We are lucky that there are a couple of mini-clec hotels in our area and we run wireless 1Gbps links for our peering...saves us a fortune in last mile cost! Proud to say our entire network from last mile to back haul links are all wireless except for the copper that ties into the antenna's. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
Marco, If you are considering Level3, you may also want to get a price quote from WBSConnect, who is a Level3 reseller. They can sometimes be very competitive, and give you an idea if you are paying what you should. I'd be interested in learning what Abovenet quotes you for Gig-E Transit. Also, To share what we did last, we didn't pick a pri and sec, we picked two primary's, and the other PRimary acted as a backup to the other PRimary. Thdn we routed shortest path to each NOC. That however did take some IP space coordination and planning. But the benefit of that was it allowed us to purchase half the amount of bandwdith and gain the same performance. Once each connection is on a Gig-E port, its easy to upgrade either side as demand needed. Then the rare times there are outages, it was OK, if the capacity was a bit over subscribed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams AboveNET will layout the exact path your fiber feed will be for you. Just make sure you're secondary path is completely diverse from whatever you choose as your primary. My suggestion would be to go with AboveNET or Level3 as your primary and use Cogent as your secondary. We haven't had any billing issues with any of our upstream providers that wasn't easily straightened out. Maybe we've just been lucky or maybe we just review our agreements more closely and haven't allowed for any chance of discrepancies. As they say...YMMV! Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Our situation is thus: We are leasing a 45 Mile1 Gig fiber link from Greenville TX to 2323 Bryan ST. in Dallas (carrier hotel). My primary need is quality bandwidth. This will become my preferred route to the world. Secondary requirement is a company I won't have to spend 1 year working to get the billing correct. I am installing a 1 Gig (800M/800M) licensed PTP link from my NOC to another lit building in Richardson TX for path diversity. The choice of carriers here will be more limited. With Abovenet being one of the primary choices. I do not want this connection to go to the same carrier as the other connection. It's really kind of funny I was just a few years ago (12) when bonded 6 T's together and thought I had all the bandwidth in the world! Now I'll have and additional 2G at my NOC for less than I was paying for the 6 Ts. Marco WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes
Has anyone put forth a serious effort to develop the mechanism they call for, or have people seriously tried, and just been rejected without just reasoning? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; WISPA Members BTOP-BIP List btop-...@wispa.org Cc: Keith Doucet kdou...@redlinecommunications.com Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes To list members: Yesterday, Redline hosted a conference call with 15 operator participants to kick off a coalition of operators who have deployed or plan to deploy broadband wireless systems in the 3.65 GHz band in the US, with the goal to discuss the current license exempt rules, some of the coexistence issues being experienced in the field, suggestions for improvements/resolution, and the necessary steps to influence change within the FCC. I encourage any interested operators (or vendors) to contact Keith Doucet, Redline's VP Customer Advocacy (kdou...@redlinecommunications.com or +1.905.479.8344 x2298). Keith has participated in the rule setting for the 3.65 GHz band in Canada and has extensive experience in working with regulators internationally. Keith plans on hosting a follow-up call next week on this topic. Thanks, Kevin Redline Communications Inc. Kevin Suitor Vice President, Corporate Marketing 302 Town Centre Blvd. Markham, ON L3R 0E8 CANADA o: +1 905.948.2299 f: +1 647.723.0451 m: +1 416.508.1252 Skype: ksuitor e-mail: ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Web: www.redlinecommunications.com Advancing Broadband Wireless - Putting WiMAX in Motion Think green before printing this email IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify Redline immediately by email at postmas...@redlinecommunications.com. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] OT: Low Voltage Disconnect
Any comments on this unit? http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=58646eventPage=1 Thanks [cid:image001.jpg@01CA5305.743C2100] Broadband for Business Public and Private WiFi http://www.aircloud.com Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 x2 P Please consider the environment before printing this email inline: image001.jpg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Low Voltage Disconnect
Also, anything else that is lower cost that is reliable? Any AGM chargers that have LVD built in? How about using a standard charger with an outboard charge controller/LVD? Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:50 AM To: Motorola Canopy User Group; WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT: Low Voltage Disconnect Any comments on this unit? http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=58646eventPage=1 Thanks [cid:image001.jpg@01CA5305.743C2100] Broadband for Business Public and Private WiFi http://www.aircloud.com Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 x2 P Please consider the environment before printing this email WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes
Mike, We have been working with the FCC team for the past year on a mechanism that has already been accepted by Industry Canada for the new 3.65 GHz band opening up this winter (entire 50 MHz). It seems to us that the upper 25 MHz may never be opened up; this is a key action item for the committee. Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes Has anyone put forth a serious effort to develop the mechanism they call for, or have people seriously tried, and just been rejected without just reasoning? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; WISPA Members BTOP-BIP List btop-...@wispa.org Cc: Keith Doucet kdou...@redlinecommunications.com Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes To list members: Yesterday, Redline hosted a conference call with 15 operator participants to kick off a coalition of operators who have deployed or plan to deploy broadband wireless systems in the 3.65 GHz band in the US, with the goal to discuss the current license exempt rules, some of the coexistence issues being experienced in the field, suggestions for improvements/resolution, and the necessary steps to influence change within the FCC. I encourage any interested operators (or vendors) to contact Keith Doucet, Redline's VP Customer Advocacy (kdou...@redlinecommunications.com or +1.905.479.8344 x2298). Keith has participated in the rule setting for the 3.65 GHz band in Canada and has extensive experience in working with regulators internationally. Keith plans on hosting a follow-up call next week on this topic. Thanks, Kevin Redline Communications Inc. Kevin Suitor Vice President, Corporate Marketing 302 Town Centre Blvd. Markham, ON L3R 0E8 CANADA o: +1 905.948.2299 f: +1 647.723.0451 m: +1 416.508.1252 Skype: ksuitor e-mail: ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Web: www.redlinecommunications.com Advancing Broadband Wireless - Putting WiMAX in Motion Think green before printing this email IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify Redline immediately by email at postmas...@redlinecommunications.com. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ �\�K�ܙ��\\�XZ[ ��\�[\� WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Low Voltage Disconnect
You can use this as an LVD only. If your load is under 10amps. http://www.mrsolar.com/page/MSOS/PROD/morningstar/SS-10L-24V -Kevin On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Also, anything else that is lower cost that is reliable? Any AGM chargers that have LVD built in? How about using a standard charger with an outboard charge controller/LVD? Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:50 AM To: Motorola Canopy User Group; WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT: Low Voltage Disconnect Any comments on this unit? http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=58646eventPage=1 Thanks [cid:image001.jpg@01CA5305.743C2100] Broadband for Business Public and Private WiFi http://www.aircloud.com Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 x2 P Please consider the environment before printing this email WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
The first thing is to establish WHY a partnership agreement is neccessary, apposed to other options. I have generally find that the new prospective partner under values what the primary owner had already given to build its business, and often new prospective partners under-estimate what they'll get in return for being a partner. New Prospective Partners, after first year, often want out, and makes life really difficult for the primary owner. Bottom line, anyone that wants to be a partner, should earn their right to become a partner, and commit to get their feet wet in the business for a while, before having their partnerships finalized and granted. If you have a partner, and finaicial problems develop you will ahv major issue. If you ever go to Sell your company, your hands may be heavilly tied. What type of company are you? I'd recommend an S-corp or LLC over doing a legal basic partnership. It will give you more control on what rights the partner has. IS this prospective partner bringing in cash? You may want to consider doing a note instead of a legal partnership. In the terms of a NOTE, you can specifiy many things on mechanisms to pay back that note, or secure it. For example, in the note, you could promise 5% of the company stock, to be defined or allocated at some pre-defined time, event, or condition. Its not necessary to actullay define a fixed number of shares. But doing something like that avoids the hassle of recreateing a legal business structure that might limit your control. Doing it through a NOTE, just makes sure the propspective individual is compensated, without having to predict the futures. Its just like being a partner. Partnerships can work, but you give something up, that is the most valuable. It can be hard for two people to resolve a difference of opinion. To Partner, there should be a very clear justification of what the partner is bringing in of necessary value. If you need help, then its appropriate to look for it. Thats the whole underlying principle of Corporations. A team will be more effective than an individual. The challenging part is to find the best method to pull togeather the team. The legal partnership method can be risky. Your Email inferred he may be a very good candidate for a partner. I dont doubt that for a second. Step 1 is to sit down with him, and really define what you ahve put in todate, what he's willing to put in, and asses values to those things. IF you can agree to the value of those things, then its easy to establish a formula of fair compensation for each. But aftter defining those details, then you re-visit the best corporate structure to facilitate the desired partnership. SCorps only allow personal investors partners (not companies), but can be a good way to partner if teh partner has a second income generating business. They often can use losses on their personal returns to offset taxes, which can incourage the lending money to the company, and still allow some financial benefit when money is not rolling in profit. It should also be noted that private investors are usually looking at 3% interest profit if they put their money in the open market right now. Dont undersell the value of your company, as ir would likely be a better money maker to yield a return for this partner. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:17 AM Subject: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes
How about reducing the size of grandfathered satellite station exclusion zones. Dealing with SES Americom is worse than dealing with a government agency. Pat Kevin Suitor wrote: Mike, We have been working with the FCC team for the past year on a mechanism that has already been accepted by Industry Canada for the new 3.65 GHz band opening up this winter (entire 50 MHz). It seems to us that the upper 25 MHz may never be opened up; this is a key action item for the committee. Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes Has anyone put forth a serious effort to develop the mechanism they call for, or have people seriously tried, and just been rejected without just reasoning? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; WISPA Members BTOP-BIP List btop-...@wispa.org Cc: Keith Doucet kdou...@redlinecommunications.com Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes To list members: Yesterday, Redline hosted a conference call with 15 operator participants to kick off a coalition of operators who have deployed or plan to deploy broadband wireless systems in the 3.65 GHz band in the US, with the goal to discuss the current license exempt rules, some of the coexistence issues being experienced in the field, suggestions for improvements/resolution, and the necessary steps to influence change within the FCC. I encourage any interested operators (or vendors) to contact Keith Doucet, Redline's VP Customer Advocacy (kdou...@redlinecommunications.com or +1.905.479.8344 x2298). Keith has participated in the rule setting for the 3.65 GHz band in Canada and has extensive experience in working with regulators internationally. Keith plans on hosting a follow-up call next week on this topic. Thanks, Kevin Redline Communications Inc. Kevin Suitor Vice President, Corporate Marketing 302 Town Centre Blvd. Markham, ON L3R 0E8 CANADA o: +1 905.948.2299 f: +1 647.723.0451 m: +1 416.508.1252 Skype: ksuitor e-mail: ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Web: www.redlinecommunications.com Advancing Broadband Wireless - Putting WiMAX in Motion Think green before printing this email IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify Redline immediately by email at postmas...@redlinecommunications.com. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ �\�K�ܙ��\\�XZ[ ��\�[\� WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Low Voltage Disconnect
I saw that. Seems too cheap to be reliable. Load is ~3.5A This is going on a tower that loses power during storms, during which the tower is not really accessable. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Neal Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Low Voltage Disconnect You can use this as an LVD only. If your load is under 10amps. http://www.mrsolar.com/page/MSOS/PROD/morningstar/SS-10L-24V -Kevin On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Also, anything else that is lower cost that is reliable? Any AGM chargers that have LVD built in? How about using a standard charger with an outboard charge controller/LVD? Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:50 AM To: Motorola Canopy User Group; WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT: Low Voltage Disconnect Any comments on this unit? http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=58646eventPage=1 Thanks [cid:image001.jpg@01CA5305.743C2100] Broadband for Business Public and Private WiFi http://www.aircloud.com Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 x2 P Please consider the environment before printing this email WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes
Another key topic -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of pat Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes How about reducing the size of grandfathered satellite station exclusion zones. Dealing with SES Americom is worse than dealing with a government agency. Pat Kevin Suitor wrote: Mike, We have been working with the FCC team for the past year on a mechanism that has already been accepted by Industry Canada for the new 3.65 GHz band opening up this winter (entire 50 MHz). It seems to us that the upper 25 MHz may never be opened up; this is a key action item for the committee. Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes Has anyone put forth a serious effort to develop the mechanism they call for, or have people seriously tried, and just been rejected without just reasoning? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; WISPA Members BTOP-BIP List btop-...@wispa.org Cc: Keith Doucet kdou...@redlinecommunications.com Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes To list members: Yesterday, Redline hosted a conference call with 15 operator participants to kick off a coalition of operators who have deployed or plan to deploy broadband wireless systems in the 3.65 GHz band in the US, with the goal to discuss the current license exempt rules, some of the coexistence issues being experienced in the field, suggestions for improvements/resolution, and the necessary steps to influence change within the FCC. I encourage any interested operators (or vendors) to contact Keith Doucet, Redline's VP Customer Advocacy (kdou...@redlinecommunications.com or +1.905.479.8344 x2298). Keith has participated in the rule setting for the 3.65 GHz band in Canada and has extensive experience in working with regulators internationally. Keith plans on hosting a follow-up call next week on this topic. Thanks, Kevin Redline Communications Inc. Kevin Suitor Vice President, Corporate Marketing 302 Town Centre Blvd. Markham, ON L3R 0E8 CANADA o: +1 905.948.2299 f: +1 647.723.0451 m: +1 416.508.1252 Skype: ksuitor e-mail: ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Web: www.redlinecommunications.com Advancing Broadband Wireless - Putting WiMAX in Motion Think green before printing this email IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify Redline immediately by email at postmas...@redlinecommunications.com. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ �\�K�ܙ��\\�XZ[ ��\�[\� WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
If you are a Ccorp, easy to convert to Scorp, if it determines appropriate. But yes, definately pre-define the exit strategy, considering wether it would be you or him exiting, and both. The horror stories in Partnership occur most at exit time. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements We're a full C corporation. I never thought about Exit strategy but I have thought about the death of one of the partners, hopefully from natural causes and how their share should be handled. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Israel Lopez-LISTS Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements My rules are: Make it performance based Make sure what he is bringing to the table is equitable to the proposed share of the company Try to talk out exit strategy, where you are taking it, how you want to go and see if that matches up to what your new partner wants to do. This all depends on the business structure you have setup (which you havent mentioned) but I assume it is an LLC or Corporation for your state, make sure it is in writing. Watch this video if you want: http://vimeo.com/6950199 Good luck. -Israel Robert West wrote: I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical engineer, travels around the world as a contractor overseeing the repair and programming of robotics as well as the installation of the equipment. He says he's tired of being gone all the time and wants to stay in one area in a field that will be somewhat related and complicated enough that he won't get bored. Hm.. I've been to his home a few times, even put in a private wireless connection between him and his neighbor a mile away. Seems like a decent guy. Now he wants to sit down and work things out on paper. Any advice on things to cover my ass on? Things some of you wished you had down on paper when you started out? I'm not a partner kinda guy, my business plan is always in my head, I make much of it up as I go along and I jump in and just do things myself so this is new territory.(However, my total lack of organization is due to the previously stated operation of the business plan) I know some will yell to not take on a partner and I'd be one of them, believe me. That's why I've fought them off so long. But with a larger network coming online and eyes for even more expansion, it's looking good to me. (We currently only have a little less than 200 subs but anticipate twice if not 3 times that to come online in 2010) I just don't want to be out in the cold or screwed over due to my ability to trust. I'll never give up more than 50%, won't happen, but there are many ways people can screw others. It all sounds like picking the right person for marriage. (I have a bad track record in that too!!! ) Do ya think maybe him and I should just kinda date for awhile before we make the commitment? What would be considered first base in this kind of thing? Configuring a CPE after a few dates then moving on to a customer installation then if it all goes well, take the plunge and climb a tower together? Weird. Thanks. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020
Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing.
After reading this thread, I something gnawed at me... it did not seem correct that a post-dated check would fall outside of the bad check laws. So without doing a lot of research, I would contend that knowingly or intentionally passing post-dated checks on a closed account is most certainly actionable in Ohio. In Ohio a post-dated check is a negotiable instrument just like any other check. The problem is that the time for presentment of the check is the post-dated date, so if you present the check for payment prior to the post-date, you don't have recourse for the breach of the payor's guarantee. See R.C. 1303.13. If you present the check for payment on or after the post-date, then you have recourse for breach of the payor's guarantee. Under R.C. 2913.11, you can file against the payor for passing bad checks. R.C. 2913.11 is held to be applicable to postdated checks. See State v. DeNicola, 163 Ohio St. 140 (1955). The civil remedy for bad checks is the greater of triple the amount of the check or $200.00 plus attorney's fees and administrative/court costs in some cases. Regards, Larry Yunker, Esq. Barkan Robon, Ltd. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:08 PM To: lakel...@gbcx.net; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. In Ohio, not sure of other states, but if you write a check with a date that is not the date you write it, it becomes an IOU. We had a guy in the area who was writing checks on a closed account and was putting the next month as the date. Had the right day and year but post dated them all for the next month. How could he prove it? He was taken to court and all the stamps on the check from the bank was in the month before the month on the check. Loop hole. He got off and the people with the bum checks have to sue him as a debtor. Good luck on that one! He was smarter than the system. Yes, we have one of the checks. 40 bucks, -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. That will not work. Federal banking laws make it illegal to write any other date other tan the present on a bearer instrument That's an uphill battle. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:34:13 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. In WA state they are trying to make it a law that no cash leaves the scrapyard. Only checks dated 2 days in the future. Makes it harder to turn a quick buck on metal recycling ryan On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: It's funny but I bet that happens. Good example of that is stolen man hole covers to be sold at the scrap yard, road signs and on the metal light poles, the little covers at the bottom that cover the electrical access.. They were stolen so much that now they dont even come with them. This sort of thing is why they now require picture ID when you sell your junk at the yard. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Hey someone was on my roof and stole my dish! Get your livestock offa my roof! mc On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I have a guy who pays his bill in dish mounts. $2 per mount delivered. We only accept the ones that are clean and reusable. He drops by every couple of weeks with 40-50 of them. Looks like they were removals from Dish/Direct TV. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:36 AM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Scottie, I've had some minor success by talking to a local metal scrap yard. It's a pretty good sized one, they put up a small sign at the pay window saying that if they get any tower sections to not crush or bend them. If they get a get sections they call and I go over. It's usually old American Tower 8 foot sections, like TV tower, but some are pretty useful. They charge usually 30 cents per pound and I pay a few cents over that for good sections in exchange for the sign next to the pay window. A month or so ago they called and I had to go out to a field to look at some that were too big for the metal collector guy to take into the yard. 2 80 foot
Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!
What do you mean? Whitespace is like a 6 mhz channel. Put QAM64 on that, and you are pushing like 10 mbps per sector. Whitespace will give you everthing 900Mhz did, except less interference (In hopes), more NLOS coverage, and many cases MANY more channels. Sure whitespace wont be living in the 20mbps to the home world, but still, the benefit is huge. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! My question is how fast can their internet go using tv whitespace? Sprint used to serve this area with an unutilized tv channel and it was SLOW. I guess if you had nothing else but if it can't go one MB its not on my radar of concern. Actually in our market if you cant deliver 10-20MB your not playing the game. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:49 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! See the attached Case Study and Press Release. jack Jonathan Schmidt wrote: Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut Network Using 'White Spaces' John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband network in rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV channels. House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who represents rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a Webcast with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how wireless Interent connectivity can change their lives. The government is currently working on a national broadband plan, including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet. Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum in secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless Internet providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a potential service area to make it economically viable. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing.
Exactly. The problem is, he dated them all for the following month and I dont know about you, but I never pay attention to the date, just the amount. So me and everyone else deposited them in the bank thus they were presented before the date on the check. From what I heard, I wasn't there, the guy argued that he didnt have to have a checking account because he was writing it as an IOU. So, he basically said he was promising to pay the IOU on the date he wrote it for out of his own pocket. No one even caught that the date was wrong until the guy pointed it out. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Larry Yunker Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:09 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. After reading this thread, I something gnawed at me... it did not seem correct that a post-dated check would fall outside of the bad check laws. So without doing a lot of research, I would contend that knowingly or intentionally passing post-dated checks on a closed account is most certainly actionable in Ohio. In Ohio a post-dated check is a negotiable instrument just like any other check. The problem is that the time for presentment of the check is the post-dated date, so if you present the check for payment prior to the post-date, you don't have recourse for the breach of the payor's guarantee. See R.C. 1303.13. If you present the check for payment on or after the post-date, then you have recourse for breach of the payor's guarantee. Under R.C. 2913.11, you can file against the payor for passing bad checks. R.C. 2913.11 is held to be applicable to postdated checks. See State v. DeNicola, 163 Ohio St. 140 (1955). The civil remedy for bad checks is the greater of triple the amount of the check or $200.00 plus attorney's fees and administrative/court costs in some cases. Regards, Larry Yunker, Esq. Barkan Robon, Ltd. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:08 PM To: lakel...@gbcx.net; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. In Ohio, not sure of other states, but if you write a check with a date that is not the date you write it, it becomes an IOU. We had a guy in the area who was writing checks on a closed account and was putting the next month as the date. Had the right day and year but post dated them all for the next month. How could he prove it? He was taken to court and all the stamps on the check from the bank was in the month before the month on the check. Loop hole. He got off and the people with the bum checks have to sue him as a debtor. Good luck on that one! He was smarter than the system. Yes, we have one of the checks. 40 bucks, -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:53 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. That will not work. Federal banking laws make it illegal to write any other date other tan the present on a bearer instrument That's an uphill battle. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:34:13 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. In WA state they are trying to make it a law that no cash leaves the scrapyard. Only checks dated 2 days in the future. Makes it harder to turn a quick buck on metal recycling ryan On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: It's funny but I bet that happens. Good example of that is stolen man hole covers to be sold at the scrap yard, road signs and on the metal light poles, the little covers at the bottom that cover the electrical access.. They were stolen so much that now they dont even come with them. This sort of thing is why they now require picture ID when you sell your junk at the yard. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Used Tower Pricing. Hey someone was on my roof and stole my dish! Get your livestock offa my roof! mc On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I have a guy who pays his bill in dish mounts. $2 per mount delivered. We only accept the ones that are clean and reusable. He drops by every couple of weeks with 40-50 of them. Looks like they were removals from Dish/Direct TV. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent:
Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!
are there not many spaces? I think this first test is just one channel Sent from my iPhone On Oct 22, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: What do you mean? Whitespace is like a 6 mhz channel. Put QAM64 on that, and you are pushing like 10 mbps per sector. Whitespace will give you everthing 900Mhz did, except less interference (In hopes), more NLOS coverage, and many cases MANY more channels. Sure whitespace wont be living in the 20mbps to the home world, but still, the benefit is huge. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! My question is how fast can their internet go using tv whitespace? Sprint used to serve this area with an unutilized tv channel and it was SLOW. I guess if you had nothing else but if it can't go one MB its not on my radar of concern. Actually in our market if you cant deliver 10-20MB your not playing the game. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:49 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! See the attached Case Study and Press Release. jack Jonathan Schmidt wrote: Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut Network Using 'White Spaces' John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband network in rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV channels. House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who represents rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a Webcast with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how wireless Interent connectivity can change their lives. The government is currently working on a national broadband plan, including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet. Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum in secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless Internet providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a potential service area to make it economically viable. --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!
This is primarily going to be useful for rural areas. In large cities there will be few or NO channels available. The more rural you are, the more unused TV channels will be available. Jerry Richardson wrote: are there not many spaces? I think this first test is just one channel Sent from my iPhone On Oct 22, 2009, at 11:22 AM, "Tom DeReggi" wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: What do you mean? Whitespace is like a 6 mhz channel. Put QAM64 on that, and you are pushing like 10 mbps per sector. Whitespace will give you everthing 900Mhz did, except less interference (In hopes), more NLOS coverage, and many cases MANY more channels. Sure whitespace wont be living in the 20mbps to the home world, but still, the benefit is huge. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Scott Carullo" sc...@brevardwireless.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! My question is how fast can their internet go using tv whitespace? Sprint used to serve this area with an unutilized tv channel and it was SLOW. I guess if you had nothing else but if it can't go one MB its not on my radar of concern. Actually in our market if you cant deliver 10-20MB your not playing the game. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: "Jack Unger" jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:49 AM To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! See the attached Case Study and Press Release. jack Jonathan Schmidt wrote: Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut Network Using 'White Spaces' John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband network in rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV channels. House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who represents rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a Webcast with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how wireless Interent connectivity can change their lives. The government is currently working on a national broadband plan, including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet. Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum in secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless Internet providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a potential service area to make it economically viable. --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes
Was Motorola involved at all with this? I am pretty sure they have a 3.65 product in the pipeline. Matt To list members: Yesterday, Redline hosted a conference call with 15 operator participants to kick off a coalition of operators who have deployed or plan to deploy broadband wireless systems in the 3.65 GHz band in the US, with the goal to discuss the current license exempt rules, some of the coexistence issues being experienced in the field, suggestions for improvements/resolution, and the necessary steps to influence change within the FCC. I encourage any interested operators (or vendors) to contact Keith Doucet, Redline's VP Customer Advocacy (kdou...@redlinecommunications.com or +1.905.479.8344 x2298). Keith has participated in the rule setting for the 3.65 GHz band in Canada and has extensive experience in working with regulators internationally. Keith plans on hosting a follow-up call next week on this topic. Thanks, Kevin Redline Communications Inc. Kevin Suitor Vice President, Corporate Marketing 302 Town Centre Blvd. Markham, ON L3R 0E8 CANADA o: +1 905.948.2299 f: +1 647.723.0451 m: +1 416.508.1252 Skype: ksuitor e-mail: ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Web: www.redlinecommunications.com Advancing Broadband Wireless - Putting WiMAX in Motion Think green before printing this email IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify Redline immediately by email at postmas...@redlinecommunications.com. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Low Voltage Disconnect
I'd suggest looking at the various solar charge controllers. We've bought morningstar ones from altestore.com On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 01:53:52PM -0400, Jerry Richardson wrote: Also, anything else that is lower cost that is reliable? Any AGM chargers that have LVD built in? How about using a standard charger with an outboard charge controller/LVD? Thanks -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:50 AM To: Motorola Canopy User Group; WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] OT: Low Voltage Disconnect Any comments on this unit? http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=58646eventPage=1 Thanks [cid:image001.jpg@01CA5305.743C2100] Broadband for Business Public and Private WiFi http://www.aircloud.com Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 x2 P Please consider the environment before printing this email WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
Right. MCI billing was a nightmare. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Hold that... UUNET, not MCI On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Worldcom was the worst for billing issues. MCI was the bomb before they were assimilated. On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: AboveNET will layout the exact path your fiber feed will be for you. Just make sure you're secondary path is completely diverse from whatever you choose as your primary. My suggestion would be to go with AboveNET or Level3 as your primary and use Cogent as your secondary. We haven't had any billing issues with any of our upstream providers that wasn't easily straightened out. Maybe we've just been lucky or maybe we just review our agreements more closely and haven't allowed for any chance of discrepancies. As they say...YMMV! Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marco Coelho Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Our situation is thus: We are leasing a 45 Mile1 Gig fiber link from Greenville TX to 2323 Bryan ST. in Dallas (carrier hotel). My primary need is quality bandwidth. This will become my preferred route to the world. Secondary requirement is a company I won't have to spend 1 year working to get the billing correct. I am installing a 1 Gig (800M/800M) licensed PTP link from my NOC to another lit building in Richardson TX for path diversity. The choice of carriers here will be more limited. With Abovenet being one of the primary choices. I do not want this connection to go to the same carrier as the other connection. It's really kind of funny I was just a few years ago (12) when bonded 6 T's together and thought I had all the bandwidth in the world! Now I'll have and additional 2G at my NOC for less than I was paying for the 6 Ts. Marco WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Canopy AND WiFi beater! -- Retro Encabulator
Rockwell Collins, over in Cedar Rapids apparently finally got the retro encambulator perfected. It works way better than Canopy, and makes a laughing stock of WiFi. How many should I buy? Mike http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVVKEsPeLtIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVVKEsPeLtI WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Canopy AND WiFi beater! -- Retro Encabulator
Wow, We've been working on this for over 20 years and just could not figure out how to reduce sinusoidal depleneration. I never thought about employing it conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm. Man, that's pure genius. Mike wrote: Rockwell Collins, over in Cedar Rapids apparently finally got the retro encambulator perfected. It works way better than Canopy, and makes a laughing stock of WiFi. How many should I buy? Mike http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVVKEsPeLtIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVVKEsPeLtI WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
I'm not sure how Equinix is in other cities, but in Chicago, they are just one tenant among many in the building. Equinix charges a lot for everything. Thats good to know. Here in Ashburn, its not the case, they own all the buildings, and there are several. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams I'm not sure how Equinix is in other cities, but in Chicago, they are just one tenant among many in the building. Equinix charges a lot for everything. If you can find another tenant such as TelX or a web host, I'd go there (depending on cross connect charges). It's transit. Usually in the metro areas, transit is cheaper than transport because with transport they have to be able to carry 100% of the traffic to wherever it's going. With transit, they can offload (maybe significant) portions of the traffic to other carriers within the building instead of on their 10GigEs going elsewhere. I'd recommend that anyone in a metro area *investigate* dark fiber thoroughly. I'm too small to buy it on my own, but depending on the market, dark fiber can be cheap and get you to where you need to be. It's not always in the right spots outside of the carrier hotels, but usually that can be solved by short builds or wireless. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams HE even has $1250 GEs Wow, is that transport or transit? Yeah, 2 months ago, we were going to get an Abovenet transport to Hurricain transit because Hurricane's market low pricing, but then Equinix started giving us a hard time on colo, trying to charge us more for the colo than both the transport and transit links combined, so we pulled the plug on the order. Hurricaine had the $2 /mb on GIg-E as long as also do IPv6 w/ IPv4. But where HE did better is they also gave good pricing on the low capacity commits. That makes it cost effective to give HE a try, before going all out, provided you're in a colo they are at. We also found a couple providers that had some really cool programs like you commit to a monthly dollar figure, but could accept the bandwdith from any Equinix facility or distributed between several of them, and move the capacity on the fly to either location. It was great option for someone wanting to expand nationwide, but not knowing where sales will develop first more. But it also allowed Gig-E pricing without having to pay for GIg-E in multiple locations. Its to bad its at Equinix though, cause a lot of teh value proposition got killed once transport added to it to get out to remote cell site, or Equinix's clueless overcharging of antenna roof space. Again its really sad when someone tried to charge more for an antenna position than a GIg-E fiber link. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Not to you, but to the thread: Cogent isn't even the low cost leader anymore. PCCW is often cheaper as is HE. HE even has $1250 GEs and $400 FEs. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Brad, Once again I disagree. Cogent represents themselves as low cost, but they have never represented themselves as low quality. Second, Cogent is most ideal as the FIRST PRIMARY provider, because Cogent is higher performing, and faster speed connections are more affordable. I agree, a backup secondary provider is needed to help when there are short outages. The backup providers dont need to be as high a capacity, or as quality, as they are seldom used exempt in the rare emergencies. Third, What determines how inexpensive a Transit provider is has nothing to do with Quality, it has to do with who has more settlement free peers. Cogent costs less, because Cogent has to pay fewer other ISPs for capacity. This DOES NOT mean they use low quality public peering, it means that they have more quality private peering negotiated at better terms. Bottom line is any carrier can break That, I agree with. Which is why its important to have two upstreams. But, that is not a reason to
Re: [WISPA] OT: Low Voltage Disconnect
2009/10/22 Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com: Any comments on this unit? http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=58646eventPage=1 Not sure what your application is, but we have been happy with these: http://www.newmartelecom.com/EPS/EPS.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!
What equipment are they using? Did they have to do the 30 meter antennas? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:05:22 -0400 IIRC, 6 mhz channels were proponed on the FCC RO, you could bond them... so with current OFDM technologies you can get 10 - 12 Mbps on a 6 mhz channel. Not bad for a NLOS, self install and mobile probability Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! My question is how fast can their internet go using tv whitespace? Sprint used to serve this area with an unutilized tv channel and it was SLOW. I guess if you had nothing else but if it can't go one MB its not on my radar of concern. Actually in our market if you cant deliver 10-20MB your not playing the game. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:49 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! See the attached Case Study and Press Release. jack Jonathan Schmidt wrote: Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut Network Using 'White Spaces' John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband network in rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV channels. House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who represents rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a Webcast with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how wireless Interent connectivity can change their lives. The government is currently working on a national broadband plan, including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet. Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum in secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless Internet providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a potential service area to make it economically viable. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!
At 704 MHz, a quarter wave is about 4 inches long. The driven element of a Yagi would be about 8 inches long. They would be way shorter than 30 meters, or what do you mean? Think about the 900 MHz antennas you see but just a little bigger for the upper UHF white space. Ch 52 is 698 MHz. Ch 69 is 800 MHz. Some of the talk I've seen about enormous antennas in the white space is ludicrous. Give me ANY part of it and the radios to use it and I will. Propagation would be superior to anything we're using now. Mike At 07:46 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote: What equipment are they using? Did they have to do the 30 meter antennas? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:05:22 -0400 IIRC, 6 mhz channels were proponed on the FCC RO, you could bond them... so with current OFDM technologies you can get 10 - 12 Mbps on a 6 mhz channel. Not bad for a NLOS, self install and mobile probability Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! My question is how fast can their internet go using tv whitespace? Sprint used to serve this area with an unutilized tv channel and it was SLOW. I guess if you had nothing else but if it can't go one MB its not on my radar of concern. Actually in our market if you cant deliver 10-20MB your not playing the game. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:49 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! See the attached Case Study and Press Release. jack Jonathan Schmidt wrote: Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut Network Using 'White Spaces' John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband network in rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV channels. House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who represents rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a Webcast with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how wireless Interent connectivity can change their lives. The government is currently working on a national broadband plan, including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet. Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum in secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless Internet providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a potential service area to make it economically viable. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ ---
[WISPA] More net Neutrality news.
http://www.cedmagazine.com/News-FCC-votes-net-neutrality-rules-102209.aspx I agree with most of it myself as long as it is legal, as Genowski (or whatever) points out. How, as a (W)ISP's do we discern what is legal and what is not? I think the FCC should turn this around and make bittorrent servers have something that we can acknowledge legitimate downloads compared to illegal(I am not sure how to do this, maybe the DPI companies can come up with some way). Before the NN laws have been enforced, I can guarantee that most bittorrent servers on my network are close to 90% illegal to 10% legal from running DPI software. I have had a TOS on my service since the dial-up days that prohibit running servers on our network. I consider bittorrent as a server in this case. What do you guys think? And more news: http://www.cedmagazine.com/News-Broadband-stimulus-panel-comments-net-neutrality-102209.aspx Scottie Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Canopy AND WiFi beater! -- Retro Encabulator
Mike, I recommend buying one gross. We can all run but we can never hide from capacitive varactance. jack Mike wrote: Rockwell Collins, over in Cedar Rapids apparently finally got the retro encambulator perfected. It works way better than Canopy, and makes a laughing stock of WiFi. How many should I buy? Mike http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVVKEsPeLtIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVVKEsPeLtI WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams
I just got a quote today from a HE reseller for the HE facility in Fremont CA $599 cabinet with 15 amps $699 cabinet with 15 amps and 20 Megabits/sec $899 cabinet with 15 amps and 100 megabits/sec John Tom DeReggi wrote: HE even has $1250 GEs Wow, is that transport or transit? Yeah, 2 months ago, we were going to get an Abovenet transport to Hurricain transit because Hurricane's market low pricing, but then Equinix started giving us a hard time on colo, trying to charge us more for the colo than both the transport and transit links combined, so we pulled the plug on the order. Hurricaine had the $2 /mb on GIg-E as long as also do IPv6 w/ IPv4. But where HE did better is they also gave good pricing on the low capacity commits. That makes it cost effective to give HE a try, before going all out, provided you're in a colo they are at. We also found a couple providers that had some really cool programs like you commit to a monthly dollar figure, but could accept the bandwdith from any Equinix facility or distributed between several of them, and move the capacity on the fly to either location. It was great option for someone wanting to expand nationwide, but not knowing where sales will develop first more. But it also allowed Gig-E pricing without having to pay for GIg-E in multiple locations. Its to bad its at Equinix though, cause a lot of teh value proposition got killed once transport added to it to get out to remote cell site, or Equinix's clueless overcharging of antenna roof space. Again its really sad when someone tried to charge more for an antenna position than a GIg-E fiber link. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Not to you, but to the thread: Cogent isn't even the low cost leader anymore. PCCW is often cheaper as is HE. HE even has $1250 GEs and $400 FEs. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams Brad, Once again I disagree. Cogent represents themselves as low cost, but they have never represented themselves as low quality. Second, Cogent is most ideal as the FIRST PRIMARY provider, because Cogent is higher performing, and faster speed connections are more affordable. I agree, a backup secondary provider is needed to help when there are short outages. The backup providers dont need to be as high a capacity, or as quality, as they are seldom used exempt in the rare emergencies. Third, What determines how inexpensive a Transit provider is has nothing to do with Quality, it has to do with who has more settlement free peers. Cogent costs less, because Cogent has to pay fewer other ISPs for capacity. This DOES NOT mean they use low quality public peering, it means that they have more quality private peering negotiated at better terms. Bottom line is any carrier can break That, I agree with. Which is why its important to have two upstreams. But, that is not a reason to not buy Cogent first. By buying Cogent first it allows a provider to become more profitable sooner, and therefore able to afford sooner multiple upstreams. Its also depends on what the downstream offers in its value proposition. With Cogent, I offer my custoemrs Gig-E when others can offer 100mb. With Cogent, I can offer my customers half the price, if not 1/3rd the price that my tier2 competitiors can offer. With Cogent, I offer excellent performance, better than most, most of the time, and if they get an outage so what. Is it really better to have less good performance all the time, to gain .009 better uptime? That depends on the target client base of the WISP. You also got another thing right... I am largely dependant on Cogent, and I hate that. But its relevent to ask why I'm dependant? When I first started out, it was because of price, but not anymore. I'm dependant on Cogent because its really hard to find a Tier1 Carrier that can offer anywhere near as equivellent consistent performance and tech support. My customers really noticed, everytime I tried someone else, so someone else never lastest. Note that I did not say uptime, I said performance. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams While I agree no solution can be considered equal in
[WISPA] anyone serving Bulloch County, GA?
More specifically, a little town called Brooklet - an inquiry popped up on a forum earlier about satellite/3g options and I thought I'd look into the possibility of a wireless alternative. TIA. [http://www.inline.com/signatures/inline_logo_signature.jpg] [http://www.inline.com/signatures/el_horizontal_small.jpg] vickie edwards, MPA | Grant Specialist InLine Solutions Through Technology 600 Lakeshore Pkwy Birmingham AL, 35209 205-278-8106 [p] 205-941-1934 [f] vedwa...@inline.com http://www.inline.com/ All Quotes from InLine are only valid for 30 days. This message and any attached files may contain confidential information and are intended solely for the message recipient. If you are not the message recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
For those that don't know him, Larry is an ex wisp all around good guy. He's now a lawyer but I try hard not to hold that against him. Did I say that I've known him for years and he's a great guy? Litterally one of the founders of the WISP business. marlon - Original Message - From: Larry Yunker leyun...@wispadvantage.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements Robert, A good partnership agreement / shareholder agreement is a necessity if you are going to take on a partner and make your business venture a success. There are a lot of considerations: How to split profits How to split losses How to elect a board of directors How to make management decisions (usually voting control of the board) How to handle stalemates If the company is in need of money what sort of future contributions will be required and how will those future contributions effect equity Is each partner/shareholder responsible for existing debts/liabilities of the company? Is each partner/shareholder entitled to any sort of salary? (what if the partner gets sick, cannot work, or will not work?) Under what circumstances may a partner/shareholder draw money out of the company? Is a partner entitled to work for the company or can a partner be fired as an employee - if so, does that partner retain his equity in the company? What happens when you want to add new partners? What happens when a partner wants to cash-out? Can a partner sell his interest to just anyone or must 100% of the partners agree to the sale or must the sale be ONLY to existing partners? What happens when a partner dies, gets a divorce, or files bankruptcy? How does the company get valued if a buyout is required? Do you mediate or arbitrate disputes or do you immediately go to court to resolve legal issues? What about competition - can a partner compete? Can an ex-partner compete? Define competition - can a (ex)partner hire away your employees? Can a (ex) partner solicit your customers? For how long after a breakup must an (ex)partner remain out of the field? Is a (ex)partner limited only from providing wireless access services or is he limited from web hosting, web design, computer repair, etc. The list goes on and on. I've handled several partnership/shareholder agreements and with the use of a good template and a good understanding of the WISP business, it's possible to put together a plan to protect yourself and your potential business partners from future disagreements. Trust only goes so far eventually something unforeseen will happen and when it does you want to make sure that you have a document to cover your basis. Regards, Larry Yunker II, Esq. Barkan Robon, Ltd. (419) 897-6500 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:17 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical engineer, travels around the world as a contractor overseeing the repair and programming of robotics as well as the installation of the equipment. He says he's tired of being gone all the time and wants to stay in one area in a field that will be somewhat related and complicated enough that he won't get bored. Hm.. I've been to his home a few times, even put in a private wireless connection between him and his neighbor a mile away. Seems like a decent guy. Now he wants to sit down and work
Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!
A VERY good guide to the whitespaces antenna sizes... are the millions of TV antennas we've been using for 50+ years. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:52 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! At 704 MHz, a quarter wave is about 4 inches long. The driven element of a Yagi would be about 8 inches long. They would be way shorter than 30 meters, or what do you mean? Think about the 900 MHz antennas you see but just a little bigger for the upper UHF white space. Ch 52 is 698 MHz. Ch 69 is 800 MHz. Some of the talk I've seen about enormous antennas in the white space is ludicrous. Give me ANY part of it and the radios to use it and I will. Propagation would be superior to anything we're using now. Mike At 07:46 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote: What equipment are they using? Did they have to do the 30 meter antennas? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:05:22 -0400 IIRC, 6 mhz channels were proponed on the FCC RO, you could bond them... so with current OFDM technologies you can get 10 - 12 Mbps on a 6 mhz channel. Not bad for a NLOS, self install and mobile probability Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! My question is how fast can their internet go using tv whitespace? Sprint used to serve this area with an unutilized tv channel and it was SLOW. I guess if you had nothing else but if it can't go one MB its not on my radar of concern. Actually in our market if you cant deliver 10-20MB your not playing the game. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:49 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow! See the attached Case Study and Press Release. jack Jonathan Schmidt wrote: Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut Network Using 'White Spaces' John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband network in rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV channels. House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who represents rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a Webcast with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how wireless Interent connectivity can change their lives. The government is currently working on a national broadband plan, including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet. Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum in secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless Internet providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a potential service area to make it economically viable. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
