Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Ever wondered why tcp troughput is so low vs udp on this mimo units? Cross pol interference ... that's why Try to run 2 mikrotik mimo setups on the same site then report back Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:51 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Tom, I believe there is a huge advantage to being able to use HPOL and VPOL at the same time with the same 20Mhz channel and get twice the bandwidth. Its sort of like your personal gps sync within the device. Realistically (for me anyway) I find that if there is strong noise on a give channel and its close enough (same tower / site) than changing the polarity won't help make the freq usable any way. Therefore I argue that MIMO (2x2) allows for BH use the actual more efficient use of spectrum. I do not compare that at all to the same as using two different 20Mhz chunks of spectrum and argue that you can indeed get twice the bandwidth out of the same 20Mhz (or 40Mhz if your environment allows) spectrum. I'm seeing it right now in my test gear or I'd be a skeptical as the bunch... I like what I see so far but my testing has been somewhat limited. I'll know a lot more this time next month. I'm sure this discussion will do nothing but get more interesting in the near future when the rubber hits the road. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Have two Have 4 on one tower, 2 in and 2 out, around 52-55meg tcp thoughput. But we are NOT using cross pol. Each link in the same direction uses both vertical or both horizontals on the two dual pols. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 8:52 AM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ever wondered why tcp troughput is so low vs udp on this mimo units? Cross pol interference ... that's why Try to run 2 mikrotik mimo setups on the same site then report back Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:51 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Tom, I believe there is a huge advantage to being able to use HPOL and VPOL at the same time with the same 20Mhz channel and get twice the bandwidth. Its sort of like your personal gps sync within the device. Realistically (for me anyway) I find that if there is strong noise on a give channel and its close enough (same tower / site) than changing the polarity won't help make the freq usable any way. Therefore I argue that MIMO (2x2) allows for BH use the actual more efficient use of spectrum. I do not compare that at all to the same as using two different 20Mhz chunks of spectrum and argue that you can indeed get twice the bandwidth out of the same 20Mhz (or 40Mhz if your environment allows) spectrum. I'm seeing it right now in my test gear or I'd be a skeptical as the bunch... I like what I see so far but my testing has been somewhat limited. I'll know a lot more this time next month. I'm sure this discussion will do nothing but get more interesting in the near future when the rubber hits the road. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
I'm not running 2 MIMO, but we are running 1 R5N MIMO and 1 XR5 link pointing from/to the same location. I'm able to keep them from interfering, and would only guess that we could keep 2 MIMO's from interfering. There's enough 5Ghz frequency to not interfere. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:52 AM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ever wondered why tcp troughput is so low vs udp on this mimo units? Cross pol interference ... that's why Try to run 2 mikrotik mimo setups on the same site then report back Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:51 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Tom, I believe there is a huge advantage to being able to use HPOL and VPOL at the same time with the same 20Mhz channel and get twice the bandwidth. Its sort of like your personal gps sync within the device. Realistically (for me anyway) I find that if there is strong noise on a give channel and its close enough (same tower / site) than changing the polarity won't help make the freq usable any way. Therefore I argue that MIMO (2x2) allows for BH use the actual more efficient use of spectrum. I do not compare that at all to the same as using two different 20Mhz chunks of spectrum and argue that you can indeed get twice the bandwidth out of the same 20Mhz (or 40Mhz if your environment allows) spectrum. I'm seeing it right now in my test gear or I'd be a skeptical as the bunch... I like what I see so far but my testing has been somewhat limited. I'll know a lot more this time next month. I'm sure this discussion will do nothing but get more interesting in the near future when the rubber hits the road. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
It's a MIMO 2x2 with Mimo 2x2 Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:59 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP I'm not running 2 MIMO, but we are running 1 R5N MIMO and 1 XR5 link pointing from/to the same location. I'm able to keep them from interfering, and would only guess that we could keep 2 MIMO's from interfering. There's enough 5Ghz frequency to not interfere. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:52 AM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ever wondered why tcp troughput is so low vs udp on this mimo units? Cross pol interference ... that's why Try to run 2 mikrotik mimo setups on the same site then report back Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:51 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Tom, I believe there is a huge advantage to being able to use HPOL and VPOL at the same time with the same 20Mhz channel and get twice the bandwidth. Its sort of like your personal gps sync within the device. Realistically (for me anyway) I find that if there is strong noise on a give channel and its close enough (same tower / site) than changing the polarity won't help make the freq usable any way. Therefore I argue that MIMO (2x2) allows for BH use the actual more efficient use of spectrum. I do not compare that at all to the same as using two different 20Mhz chunks of spectrum and argue that you can indeed get twice the bandwidth out of the same 20Mhz (or 40Mhz if your environment allows) spectrum. I'm seeing it right now in my test gear or I'd be a skeptical as the bunch... I like what I see so far but my testing has been somewhat limited. I'll know a lot more this time next month. I'm sure this discussion will do nothing but get more interesting in the near future when the rubber hits the road. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Ubiquiti claims 150 megs of TCP/IP throughput, which is possible if you add upload and download as is common in the unlicensed world. I couldn't tell from any documentation whether they were 20 MHz or 40 MHz. The FCC certification wasn't overly clear, but I think it can do both. I don't see any reason why something can't do full data rate at 15 miles. My Orthogon does full data rate over 18 miles. I haven't tested my MT's since I got boards that can handle that much speed. Someone has to alpha and beta test the gear. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 8:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Sorry dude, I love Ubiquity, but 100 subs on a atheros system on a chip at 12/6 - Impossible. 130 Mbps throughput on a 100 mb ethernet port - Impossible. 130 Mbps at 15 miles when full modulation at 40 mhz w/2 antennas is 130 Mbps is -Impossible. YOU haven't tested any of the new UBNT gear, so your suppositions are - Impossible. Regards Michael Baird I never said you had to believe me. I know what we do, what our environment is like, and what works for us. I know our customers always get 12Mbps, and we never get support calls. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Jason Im sorry but i find some stated facts very difficult to believe. the 25db vs 3db snr ratio is based on the fact that canopy can perform as expected with just 3db over noise. MIMO based gear needs about 25 db snr ratio on both polarities in order to achieve good performence on 64qam and 2 chains. So if your noise floor is -80, youll need a -55 signal to get the high performance. I guessing hte nano / loco units would be good for really close clients, rocket dish for all others Gino From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Jayson Baker Sent: Tue 8/18/2009 7:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP MIMO (especially dual-pol) gets you much better performance. Cell phone companies have been doing this for years and years. You're 3dB vs 25dB comment is misleading. UBNT may need a received level of -70dBm to achieve higher speeds... but, so does a Canopy. You can't expect to achieve anything on a Canopy with, say, a -97dBm signal. Furthermore, UBNT will actually link around -95dBm and work, albeit slow. Canopy will say SCANNING We have tested these products, and have networks deployed both here in the states and in Costa Rica. You wouldn't think it, but Costa Rica has waaay more noise than we do here. The government uses 2.4 and 5GHz for random things, people have way overamp'ed equipment, there are a ton of little WISP's, etc. Canopy down there performs as expected... a couple mbps up, a couple mbps down. UBNT MIMO blows it away, especially with AirMax and in a noisy environment. When testing the MIMO you can't just run a single stream, they work best with many streams. We have seen about 130Mbps on a full-duplex on a deployed link, around 15 miles, in a noisy environment. With the PtMP equipment, we see similar results. With the older non-N non-MIMO equipment, we have seen up to 100+ subs on a single PowerStation AP, all getting at least 12Mbps/6Mbps, and latency always under 10ms. I get it, it's a Motorola list. We're on here because we use some of that too. Not much, anymore, because there are much better products out there. I'm sure this will start a flame war, as talk of anything other than Canopy always does, and I don't really care. The equipment is cheap enough, if you want to see it for yourself buy some and put it in. When you see it works as well as we've seen, you, too, can offer your subs 12Mbps for $25/mo and make killer profits. Our ROI on a new install is 1 Day. We make money the day it's installed. And it just works, we never have customers calling to complain. Cheers! On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
I don't see it being any worse in terms of advertised mb/s/user than the WiMAX everyone has fallen in love with. 200 people on an 18 meg sector? Hardly. Maybe 30. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 8:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP I'm going to call BS here... (1) You don't really have a noisy environment if you are able to run a basic Powerstation AP with 100 subs and have it work at all. We are on towers on hilltops that have over 120 antennas (dishes, sectors, omnis) within a 500ft radius from our tower. (2) You aren't shooting 10-15 miles in a point to multi-point configuration (3) Your math doesn't work. 100+ subs on a Powerstation AP (even if it's doing 130Mbps), that's 1.3Mbps per sub. There is no way _every_ speed test is 12Mbps down and 6Mbps up with 100 people connected. (4) How many total customers do you have on wireless? (5) Why doesn't your homepage load (www.spectrasurf.com)? (6) Our ROI using Canopy is 0 days. :) (7) Even one of the lead engineers at Ubiquiti said the product is designed more for countries with little or no internet service where they will be happy with ISDN speeds. I have a test setup on the way. I will test and report back what the real world is on this equipment. ;) Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: MIMO (especially dual-pol) gets you much better performance. Cell phone companies have been doing this for years and years. You're 3dB vs 25dB comment is misleading. UBNT may need a received level of -70dBm to achieve higher speeds... but, so does a Canopy. You can't expect to achieve anything on a Canopy with, say, a -97dBm signal. Furthermore, UBNT will actually link around -95dBm and work, albeit slow. Canopy will say SCANNING We have tested these products, and have networks deployed both here in the states and in Costa Rica. You wouldn't think it, but Costa Rica has waaay more noise than we do here. The government uses 2.4 and 5GHz for random things, people have way overamp'ed equipment, there are a ton of little WISP's, etc. Canopy down there performs as expected... a couple mbps up, a couple mbps down. UBNT MIMO blows it away, especially with AirMax and in a noisy environment. When testing the MIMO you can't just run a single stream, they work best with many streams. We have seen about 130Mbps on a full-duplex on a deployed link, around 15 miles, in a noisy environment. With the PtMP equipment, we see similar results. With the older non-N non-MIMO equipment, we have seen up to 100+ subs on a single PowerStation AP, all getting at least 12Mbps/6Mbps, and latency always under 10ms. I get it, it's a Motorola list. We're on here because we use some of that too. Not much, anymore, because there are much better products out there. I'm sure this will start a flame war, as talk of anything other than Canopy always does, and I don't really care. The equipment is cheap enough, if you want to see it for yourself buy some and put it in. When you see it works as well as we've seen, you, too, can offer your subs 12Mbps for $25/mo and make killer profits. Our ROI on a new install is 1 Day. We make money the day it's installed. And it just works, we never have customers calling to complain. Cheers! On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh new product is its inferred that there might be a low cost dual pol sector antenna available now? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com To: wireless wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps real throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
There's 250 MHz available in mid 5 GHz. It can easily do 10 miles on a PtP. With bigger dishes, it can obviously go farther. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ubiquiti claims 150 megs of TCP/IP throughput, which is possible if you add upload and download as is common in the unlicensed world. I couldn't tell from any documentation whether they were 20 MHz or 40 MHz. The FCC certification wasn't overly clear, but I think it can do both. It can do both but require 40 MHz channels to achieve 150Mbps+ MIMO throughput and 100Mbps+ SISO throughput. Finding a 40 MHz window that is clean on both vertical and horizontal is quite a challenge these days. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
There is an FCC EIRP maximum of 30 dB in 5.4 GHz that will limit the range of any radio legally operating in this band. - Original Message - From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wed Aug 19 12:47:59 2009 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP There's 250 MHz available in mid 5 GHz. It can easily do 10 miles on a PtP. With bigger dishes, it can obviously go farther. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ubiquiti claims 150 megs of TCP/IP throughput, which is possible if you add upload and download as is common in the unlicensed world. I couldn't tell from any documentation whether they were 20 MHz or 40 MHz. The FCC certification wasn't overly clear, but I think it can do both. It can do both but require 40 MHz channels to achieve 150Mbps+ MIMO throughput and 100Mbps+ SISO throughput. Finding a 40 MHz window that is clean on both vertical and horizontal is quite a challenge these days. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
How is the size of the dish going to help if the EIRP is capped at 30dB? This band does not following the same PTP rules as 5.7. Freespace loss is going to increase but the 30dB EIRP is constant. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP I know. 2' dishes will do 10 miles. 3' does 15 miles. 4' does 20 miles. 6' does 30 miles. All within 30 dB EIRP. Obviously radio\antenna certification limits apply. I figured a PtP radio salesman would have known that. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Dave Rumore drum...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:12 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP There is an FCC EIRP maximum of 30 dB in 5.4 GHz that will limit the range of any radio legally operating in this band. - Original Message - From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wed Aug 19 12:47:59 2009 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP There's 250 MHz available in mid 5 GHz. It can easily do 10 miles on a PtP. With bigger dishes, it can obviously go farther. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ubiquiti claims 150 megs of TCP/IP throughput, which is possible if you add upload and download as is common in the unlicensed world. I couldn't tell from any documentation whether they were 20 MHz or 40 MHz. The FCC certification wasn't overly clear, but I think it can do both. It can do both but require 40 MHz channels to achieve 150Mbps+ MIMO throughput and 100Mbps+ SISO throughput. Finding a 40 MHz window that is clean on both vertical and horizontal is quite a challenge these days. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
You decrease the radio output. Any good radio can do negative dB. 24 dB radio + 6 dBi omni = 30 dB EIRP 2 dB radio + 28 dBi 2' antenna = 30 dB EIRP -7 dB radio + 37 dBi 6' antenna = 30 dB EIRP It's still only 30 dB you say? Well, the receive antenna is 9 dB more, giving you overall 9 dB more on the whole link. That 6 dB omni would only be able to have a 0.75 mile link vs. 30 miles for a 6'. If I were to be ignoring that 30 dB EIRP limit, you'd have the following: 24 dB radio + 6 dBi omni = 30 dB EIRP for 0.75 miles 24 dB radio + 28 dBi 2' antenna = 52 dB EIRP over 100 miles (the calculator doesn't accept more than 100) Yes, I know you're not going to get that in real life, but you really can't have this kind of comparative discussion with real world numbers because the real world is different everywhere at different times. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 1:29 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP How is the size of the dish going to help if the EIRP is capped at 30dB? This band does not following the same PTP rules as 5.7. Freespace loss is going to increase but the 30dB EIRP is constant. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP I know. 2' dishes will do 10 miles. 3' does 15 miles. 4' does 20 miles. 6' does 30 miles. All within 30 dB EIRP. Obviously radio\antenna certification limits apply. I figured a PtP radio salesman would have known that. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Dave Rumore drum...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:12 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP There is an FCC EIRP maximum of 30 dB in 5.4 GHz that will limit the range of any radio legally operating in this band. - Original Message - From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wed Aug 19 12:47:59 2009 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP There's 250 MHz available in mid 5 GHz. It can easily do 10 miles on a PtP. With bigger dishes, it can obviously go farther. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ubiquiti claims 150 megs of TCP/IP throughput, which is possible if you add upload and download as is common in the unlicensed world. I couldn't tell from any documentation whether they were 20 MHz or 40 MHz. The FCC certification wasn't overly clear, but I think it can do both. It can do both but require 40 MHz channels to achieve 150Mbps+ MIMO throughput and 100Mbps+ SISO throughput. Finding a 40 MHz window that is clean on both vertical and horizontal is quite a challenge these days. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Might help reduce off-angle noise. Other than that, not much. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP How is the size of the dish going to help if the EIRP is capped at 30dB? This band does not following the same PTP rules as 5.7. Freespace loss is going to increase but the 30dB EIRP is constant. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP I know. 2' dishes will do 10 miles. 3' does 15 miles. 4' does 20 miles. 6' does 30 miles. All within 30 dB EIRP. Obviously radio\antenna certification limits apply. I figured a PtP radio salesman would have known that. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Dave Rumore drum...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:12 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP There is an FCC EIRP maximum of 30 dB in 5.4 GHz that will limit the range of any radio legally operating in this band. - Original Message - From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wed Aug 19 12:47:59 2009 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP There's 250 MHz available in mid 5 GHz. It can easily do 10 miles on a PtP. With bigger dishes, it can obviously go farther. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ubiquiti claims 150 megs of TCP/IP throughput, which is possible if you add upload and download as is common in the unlicensed world. I couldn't tell from any documentation whether they were 20 MHz or 40 MHz. The FCC certification wasn't overly clear, but I think it can do both. It can do both but require 40 MHz channels to achieve 150Mbps+ MIMO throughput and 100Mbps+ SISO throughput. Finding a 40 MHz window that is clean on both vertical and horizontal is quite a challenge these days. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.61/2313 - Release Date: 08/19/09 06:03:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Mike, not one of those choices is possible. But the bullet 5m can not have the power turned down below 6dbm output. This will limit your choice to exclude the 2' dishes. UBNT-Mike.Ford says the power reduction isn't possible. http://www.ubnt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14053highlight= (If they get FCC approval for 5.4 band). I haven't yet seen any proof of any approval. Anyone got a production m5 radio with an fcc id? In this case, it looks like a 1' panel is about all you could use for an antenna in a 30dbm eirp situation. More antenna would be desired for better reception, due to the fact that neither end can put out much. On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 12:44:16PM -0500, Mike Hammett wrote: I know. 2' dishes will do 10 miles. 3' does 15 miles. 4' does 20 miles. 6' does 30 miles. All within 30 dB EIRP. Obviously radio\antenna certification limits apply. I figured a PtP radio salesman would have known that. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Dave Rumore drum...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:12 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP There is an FCC EIRP maximum of 30 dB in 5.4 GHz that will limit the range of any radio legally operating in this band. - Original Message - From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wed Aug 19 12:47:59 2009 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP There's 250 MHz available in mid 5 GHz. It can easily do 10 miles on a PtP. With bigger dishes, it can obviously go farther. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ubiquiti claims 150 megs of TCP/IP throughput, which is possible if you add upload and download as is common in the unlicensed world. I couldn't tell from any documentation whether they were 20 MHz or 40 MHz. The FCC certification wasn't overly clear, but I think it can do both. It can do both but require 40 MHz channels to achieve 150Mbps+ MIMO throughput and 100Mbps+ SISO throughput. Finding a 40 MHz window that is clean on both vertical and horizontal is quite a challenge these days. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Uh, duh. Wasn't factoring in the increased Rx gain. Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications Sent Mobile (Probably one handed) From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP You decrease the radio output. Any good radio can do negative dB. 24 dB radio + 6 dBi omni = 30 dB EIRP 2 dB radio + 28 dBi 2' antenna = 30 dB EIRP -7 dB radio + 37 dBi 6' antenna = 30 dB EIRP It's still only 30 dB you say? Well, the receive antenna is 9 dB more, giving you overall 9 dB more on the whole link. That 6 dB omni would only be able to have a 0.75 mile link vs. 30 miles for a 6'. If I were to be ignoring that 30 dB EIRP limit, you'd have the following: 24 dB radio + 6 dBi omni = 30 dB EIRP for 0.75 miles 24 dB radio + 28 dBi 2' antenna = 52 dB EIRP over 100 miles (the calculator doesn't accept more than 100) Yes, I know you're not going to get that in real life, but you really can't have this kind of comparative discussion with real world numbers because the real world is different everywhere at different times. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 1:29 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP How is the size of the dish going to help if the EIRP is capped at 30dB? This band does not following the same PTP rules as 5.7. Freespace loss is going to increase but the 30dB EIRP is constant. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP I know. 2' dishes will do 10 miles. 3' does 15 miles. 4' does 20 miles. 6' does 30 miles. All within 30 dB EIRP. Obviously radio\antenna certification limits apply. I figured a PtP radio salesman would have known that. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Dave Rumore drum...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:12 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP There is an FCC EIRP maximum of 30 dB in 5.4 GHz that will limit the range of any radio legally operating in this band. - Original Message - From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wed Aug 19 12:47:59 2009 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP There's 250 MHz available in mid 5 GHz. It can easily do 10 miles on a PtP. With bigger dishes, it can obviously go farther. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ubiquiti claims 150 megs of TCP/IP throughput, which is possible if you add upload and download as is common in the unlicensed world. I couldn't tell from any documentation whether they were 20 MHz or 40 MHz. The FCC certification wasn't overly clear, but I think it can do both. It can do both but require 40 MHz channels to achieve 150Mbps+ MIMO throughput and 100Mbps+ SISO throughput. Finding a 40 MHz window that is clean on both vertical and horizontal is quite a challenge these days. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Nope. In the forums they say they have no plans for the existing and announced products. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Mattlm7...@gmail.com wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
No GPS sync, and TDMA is done in software, not hardware / fpga: http://www.ubnt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13327start=30 Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
I was hoping for that myself. Would be seriously nice to have GPS integrated in the thing. I've only worked with the Bullets so far and no mention of that. I have some Rockets on order but since they all use AirOS, I doubt that's a doable thing. But even without GPS, it all looks to be a game changer at least on my end here. I'm still not ready to dump the Mikrotik though, the AirMax line is very much plug and play and anyone could figure it out but to do that it's less complicated and that equates to less easy to add weird configurations of the software. We all know we need lots of weird configurations from time to time. That's the bonus with Mikrotik, one can script the hell out of it. Sure, you can add scripts in Ubiquiti but not like the MT. I'd love to go 100% with UBNT but just not gonna happen soon. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Maybe this is better for the Mikrotik list, but any vendor can pick up on this if they want :) In researching the UBNT new stuff, I came across something quite interesting / promising. It appeared some newer atheros chipsets had TDMA built into the hardware, but I believe I was mistaken. There was, however, a software-based TDMA developed for FreeBSD that replaces CSMA in some Atheros chips, and another for Linux. I'm betting that is what AirMax is based on. It also looks like some folks are playing with integrating this with GPS, but I haven't found any actual implementations other than boards that support it: FreeBSD / GPS: http://siomail.ucsd.edu/pipermail/swap/2009-January/000683.html Linux: http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~prasant/pubs/conf/infocom2009-tdmac.pdf Robert West wrote: I was hoping for that myself. Would be seriously nice to have GPS integrated in the thing. I've only worked with the Bullets so far and no mention of that. I have some Rockets on order but since they all use AirOS, I doubt that's a doable thing. But even without GPS, it all looks to be a game changer at least on my end here. I'm still not ready to dump the Mikrotik though, the AirMax line is very much plug and play and anyone could figure it out but to do that it's less complicated and that equates to less easy to add weird configurations of the software. We all know we need lots of weird configurations from time to time. That's the bonus with Mikrotik, one can script the hell out of it. Sure, you can add scripts in Ubiquiti but not like the MT. I'd love to go 100% with UBNT but just not gonna happen soon. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps real throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
I was playing around with the Bullets last night and my connect was 150 but I'd have to have some really understanding customers to try to test more than a few with the Bullet. That can be saved for an emergency situation! We're throwing them up later this week for some new outlying backhauls. We'll see what kind of traffic we can pass once those are in place. Planning on replacing those with the rockets once they are available but for now the Bullets are cheap enough and we have low CPE count out there at the moment. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hendry Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 12:00 PM To: wireless Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps real throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh new product is its inferred that there might be a low cost dual pol sector antenna available now? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com To: wireless wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps real throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Low cost, dual pol and high gain. 19db 120' sector @ 5GHz ;) Interesting design too. -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net] Sent: 19 August 2009 00:08 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh new product is its inferred that there might be a low cost dual pol sector antenna available now? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com To: wireless wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps real throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
MIMO (especially dual-pol) gets you much better performance. Cell phone companies have been doing this for years and years. You're 3dB vs 25dB comment is misleading. UBNT may need a received level of -70dBm to achieve higher speeds... but, so does a Canopy. You can't expect to achieve anything on a Canopy with, say, a -97dBm signal. Furthermore, UBNT will actually link around -95dBm and work, albeit slow. Canopy will say SCANNING We have tested these products, and have networks deployed both here in the states and in Costa Rica. You wouldn't think it, but Costa Rica has waaay more noise than we do here. The government uses 2.4 and 5GHz for random things, people have way overamp'ed equipment, there are a ton of little WISP's, etc. Canopy down there performs as expected... a couple mbps up, a couple mbps down. UBNT MIMO blows it away, especially with AirMax and in a noisy environment. When testing the MIMO you can't just run a single stream, they work best with many streams. We have seen about 130Mbps on a full-duplex on a deployed link, around 15 miles, in a noisy environment. With the PtMP equipment, we see similar results. With the older non-N non-MIMO equipment, we have seen up to 100+ subs on a single PowerStation AP, all getting at least 12Mbps/6Mbps, and latency always under 10ms. I get it, it's a Motorola list. We're on here because we use some of that too. Not much, anymore, because there are much better products out there. I'm sure this will start a flame war, as talk of anything other than Canopy always does, and I don't really care. The equipment is cheap enough, if you want to see it for yourself buy some and put it in. When you see it works as well as we've seen, you, too, can offer your subs 12Mbps for $25/mo and make killer profits. Our ROI on a new install is 1 Day. We make money the day it's installed. And it just works, we never have customers calling to complain. Cheers! On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh new product is its inferred that there might be a low cost dual pol sector antenna available now? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com To: wireless wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps real throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Jason Im sorry but i find some stated facts very difficult to believe. the 25db vs 3db snr ratio is based on the fact that canopy can perform as expected with just 3db over noise. MIMO based gear needs about 25 db snr ratio on both polarities in order to achieve good performence on 64qam and 2 chains. So if your noise floor is -80, youll need a -55 signal to get the high performance. I guessing hte nano / loco units would be good for really close clients, rocket dish for all others Gino From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Jayson Baker Sent: Tue 8/18/2009 7:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP MIMO (especially dual-pol) gets you much better performance. Cell phone companies have been doing this for years and years. You're 3dB vs 25dB comment is misleading. UBNT may need a received level of -70dBm to achieve higher speeds... but, so does a Canopy. You can't expect to achieve anything on a Canopy with, say, a -97dBm signal. Furthermore, UBNT will actually link around -95dBm and work, albeit slow. Canopy will say SCANNING We have tested these products, and have networks deployed both here in the states and in Costa Rica. You wouldn't think it, but Costa Rica has waaay more noise than we do here. The government uses 2.4 and 5GHz for random things, people have way overamp'ed equipment, there are a ton of little WISP's, etc. Canopy down there performs as expected... a couple mbps up, a couple mbps down. UBNT MIMO blows it away, especially with AirMax and in a noisy environment. When testing the MIMO you can't just run a single stream, they work best with many streams. We have seen about 130Mbps on a full-duplex on a deployed link, around 15 miles, in a noisy environment. With the PtMP equipment, we see similar results. With the older non-N non-MIMO equipment, we have seen up to 100+ subs on a single PowerStation AP, all getting at least 12Mbps/6Mbps, and latency always under 10ms. I get it, it's a Motorola list. We're on here because we use some of that too. Not much, anymore, because there are much better products out there. I'm sure this will start a flame war, as talk of anything other than Canopy always does, and I don't really care. The equipment is cheap enough, if you want to see it for yourself buy some and put it in. When you see it works as well as we've seen, you, too, can offer your subs 12Mbps for $25/mo and make killer profits. Our ROI on a new install is 1 Day. We make money the day it's installed. And it just works, we never have customers calling to complain. Cheers! On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh new product is its inferred that there might be a low cost dual pol sector antenna available now? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com To: wireless wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps real throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
bit more info on the airmax protocol fro ubiquiti: Yes AirMax is the TDMA/Polling aspect of the software/hardware. This can be shut off. The backoff rules of the 802.11 protocol still apply to a certain extent (only from outside sources - inside the Ap/Client network they all have different time slots so they avoid collisions and hidden nodes all together.) So the polling doesnt take away the CSMA backoff mechanism of 802.11x from other noise sources From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Gino Villarini Sent: Tue 8/18/2009 8:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Jason Im sorry but i find some stated facts very difficult to believe. the 25db vs 3db snr ratio is based on the fact that canopy can perform as expected with just 3db over noise. MIMO based gear needs about 25 db snr ratio on both polarities in order to achieve good performence on 64qam and 2 chains. So if your noise floor is -80, youll need a -55 signal to get the high performance. I guessing hte nano / loco units would be good for really close clients, rocket dish for all others Gino From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Jayson Baker Sent: Tue 8/18/2009 7:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP MIMO (especially dual-pol) gets you much better performance. Cell phone companies have been doing this for years and years. You're 3dB vs 25dB comment is misleading. UBNT may need a received level of -70dBm to achieve higher speeds... but, so does a Canopy. You can't expect to achieve anything on a Canopy with, say, a -97dBm signal. Furthermore, UBNT will actually link around -95dBm and work, albeit slow. Canopy will say SCANNING We have tested these products, and have networks deployed both here in the states and in Costa Rica. You wouldn't think it, but Costa Rica has waaay more noise than we do here. The government uses 2.4 and 5GHz for random things, people have way overamp'ed equipment, there are a ton of little WISP's, etc. Canopy down there performs as expected... a couple mbps up, a couple mbps down. UBNT MIMO blows it away, especially with AirMax and in a noisy environment. When testing the MIMO you can't just run a single stream, they work best with many streams. We have seen about 130Mbps on a full-duplex on a deployed link, around 15 miles, in a noisy environment. With the PtMP equipment, we see similar results. With the older non-N non-MIMO equipment, we have seen up to 100+ subs on a single PowerStation AP, all getting at least 12Mbps/6Mbps, and latency always under 10ms. I get it, it's a Motorola list. We're on here because we use some of that too. Not much, anymore, because there are much better products out there. I'm sure this will start a flame war, as talk of anything other than Canopy always does, and I don't really care. The equipment is cheap enough, if you want to see it for yourself buy some and put it in. When you see it works as well as we've seen, you, too, can offer your subs 12Mbps for $25/mo and make killer profits. Our ROI on a new install is 1 Day. We make money the day it's installed. And it just works, we never have customers calling to complain. Cheers! On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh new product is its inferred that there might be a low cost dual pol sector antenna available now? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com To: wireless wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps real throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
I never said you had to believe me. I know what we do, what our environment is like, and what works for us. I know our customers always get 12Mbps, and we never get support calls. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Jason Im sorry but i find some stated facts very difficult to believe. the 25db vs 3db snr ratio is based on the fact that canopy can perform as expected with just 3db over noise. MIMO based gear needs about 25 db snr ratio on both polarities in order to achieve good performence on 64qam and 2 chains. So if your noise floor is -80, youll need a -55 signal to get the high performance. I guessing hte nano / loco units would be good for really close clients, rocket dish for all others Gino From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Jayson Baker Sent: Tue 8/18/2009 7:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP MIMO (especially dual-pol) gets you much better performance. Cell phone companies have been doing this for years and years. You're 3dB vs 25dB comment is misleading. UBNT may need a received level of -70dBm to achieve higher speeds... but, so does a Canopy. You can't expect to achieve anything on a Canopy with, say, a -97dBm signal. Furthermore, UBNT will actually link around -95dBm and work, albeit slow. Canopy will say SCANNING We have tested these products, and have networks deployed both here in the states and in Costa Rica. You wouldn't think it, but Costa Rica has waaay more noise than we do here. The government uses 2.4 and 5GHz for random things, people have way overamp'ed equipment, there are a ton of little WISP's, etc. Canopy down there performs as expected... a couple mbps up, a couple mbps down. UBNT MIMO blows it away, especially with AirMax and in a noisy environment. When testing the MIMO you can't just run a single stream, they work best with many streams. We have seen about 130Mbps on a full-duplex on a deployed link, around 15 miles, in a noisy environment. With the PtMP equipment, we see similar results. With the older non-N non-MIMO equipment, we have seen up to 100+ subs on a single PowerStation AP, all getting at least 12Mbps/6Mbps, and latency always under 10ms. I get it, it's a Motorola list. We're on here because we use some of that too. Not much, anymore, because there are much better products out there. I'm sure this will start a flame war, as talk of anything other than Canopy always does, and I don't really care. The equipment is cheap enough, if you want to see it for yourself buy some and put it in. When you see it works as well as we've seen, you, too, can offer your subs 12Mbps for $25/mo and make killer profits. Our ROI on a new install is 1 Day. We make money the day it's installed. And it just works, we never have customers calling to complain. Cheers! On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh new product is its inferred that there might be a low cost dual pol sector antenna available now? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com To: wireless wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps real throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
They actually get 12MBps throughput or they are connected at the 12MBps rate? Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP I never said you had to believe me. I know what we do, what our environment is like, and what works for us. I know our customers always get 12Mbps, and we never get support calls. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Jason Im sorry but i find some stated facts very difficult to believe. the 25db vs 3db snr ratio is based on the fact that canopy can perform as expected with just 3db over noise. MIMO based gear needs about 25 db snr ratio on both polarities in order to achieve good performence on 64qam and 2 chains. So if your noise floor is -80, youll need a -55 signal to get the high performance. I guessing hte nano / loco units would be good for really close clients, rocket dish for all others Gino From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Jayson Baker Sent: Tue 8/18/2009 7:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP MIMO (especially dual-pol) gets you much better performance. Cell phone companies have been doing this for years and years. You're 3dB vs 25dB comment is misleading. UBNT may need a received level of -70dBm to achieve higher speeds... but, so does a Canopy. You can't expect to achieve anything on a Canopy with, say, a -97dBm signal. Furthermore, UBNT will actually link around -95dBm and work, albeit slow. Canopy will say SCANNING We have tested these products, and have networks deployed both here in the states and in Costa Rica. You wouldn't think it, but Costa Rica has waaay more noise than we do here. The government uses 2.4 and 5GHz for random things, people have way overamp'ed equipment, there are a ton of little WISP's, etc. Canopy down there performs as expected... a couple mbps up, a couple mbps down. UBNT MIMO blows it away, especially with AirMax and in a noisy environment. When testing the MIMO you can't just run a single stream, they work best with many streams. We have seen about 130Mbps on a full-duplex on a deployed link, around 15 miles, in a noisy environment. With the PtMP equipment, we see similar results. With the older non-N non-MIMO equipment, we have seen up to 100+ subs on a single PowerStation AP, all getting at least 12Mbps/6Mbps, and latency always under 10ms. I get it, it's a Motorola list. We're on here because we use some of that too. Not much, anymore, because there are much better products out there. I'm sure this will start a flame war, as talk of anything other than Canopy always does, and I don't really care. The equipment is cheap enough, if you want to see it for yourself buy some and put it in. When you see it works as well as we've seen, you, too, can offer your subs 12Mbps for $25/mo and make killer profits. Our ROI on a new install is 1 Day. We make money the day it's installed. And it just works, we never have customers calling to complain. Cheers! On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh new product is its inferred that there might be a low cost dual pol sector antenna available now? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com To: wireless wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps real throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
12Mbps download, 6Mbps upload to speedtest.net On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: They actually get 12MBps throughput or they are connected at the 12MBps rate? Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP I never said you had to believe me. I know what we do, what our environment is like, and what works for us. I know our customers always get 12Mbps, and we never get support calls. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Jason Im sorry but i find some stated facts very difficult to believe. the 25db vs 3db snr ratio is based on the fact that canopy can perform as expected with just 3db over noise. MIMO based gear needs about 25 db snr ratio on both polarities in order to achieve good performence on 64qam and 2 chains. So if your noise floor is -80, youll need a -55 signal to get the high performance. I guessing hte nano / loco units would be good for really close clients, rocket dish for all others Gino From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Jayson Baker Sent: Tue 8/18/2009 7:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP MIMO (especially dual-pol) gets you much better performance. Cell phone companies have been doing this for years and years. You're 3dB vs 25dB comment is misleading. UBNT may need a received level of -70dBm to achieve higher speeds... but, so does a Canopy. You can't expect to achieve anything on a Canopy with, say, a -97dBm signal. Furthermore, UBNT will actually link around -95dBm and work, albeit slow. Canopy will say SCANNING We have tested these products, and have networks deployed both here in the states and in Costa Rica. You wouldn't think it, but Costa Rica has waaay more noise than we do here. The government uses 2.4 and 5GHz for random things, people have way overamp'ed equipment, there are a ton of little WISP's, etc. Canopy down there performs as expected... a couple mbps up, a couple mbps down. UBNT MIMO blows it away, especially with AirMax and in a noisy environment. When testing the MIMO you can't just run a single stream, they work best with many streams. We have seen about 130Mbps on a full-duplex on a deployed link, around 15 miles, in a noisy environment. With the PtMP equipment, we see similar results. With the older non-N non-MIMO equipment, we have seen up to 100+ subs on a single PowerStation AP, all getting at least 12Mbps/6Mbps, and latency always under 10ms. I get it, it's a Motorola list. We're on here because we use some of that too. Not much, anymore, because there are much better products out there. I'm sure this will start a flame war, as talk of anything other than Canopy always does, and I don't really care. The equipment is cheap enough, if you want to see it for yourself buy some and put it in. When you see it works as well as we've seen, you, too, can offer your subs 12Mbps for $25/mo and make killer profits. Our ROI on a new install is 1 Day. We make money the day it's installed. And it just works, we never have customers calling to complain. Cheers! On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh new product is its inferred that there might be a low cost dual pol sector antenna available now? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com To: wireless wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps real throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Sorry dude, I love Ubiquity, but 100 subs on a atheros system on a chip at 12/6 - Impossible. 130 Mbps throughput on a 100 mb ethernet port - Impossible. 130 Mbps at 15 miles when full modulation at 40 mhz w/2 antennas is 130 Mbps is -Impossible. YOU haven't tested any of the new UBNT gear, so your suppositions are - Impossible. Regards Michael Baird I never said you had to believe me. I know what we do, what our environment is like, and what works for us. I know our customers always get 12Mbps, and we never get support calls. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Jason Im sorry but i find some stated facts very difficult to believe. the 25db vs 3db snr ratio is based on the fact that canopy can perform as expected with just 3db over noise. MIMO based gear needs about 25 db snr ratio on both polarities in order to achieve good performence on 64qam and 2 chains. So if your noise floor is -80, youll need a -55 signal to get the high performance. I guessing hte nano / loco units would be good for really close clients, rocket dish for all others Gino From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Jayson Baker Sent: Tue 8/18/2009 7:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP MIMO (especially dual-pol) gets you much better performance. Cell phone companies have been doing this for years and years. You're 3dB vs 25dB comment is misleading. UBNT may need a received level of -70dBm to achieve higher speeds... but, so does a Canopy. You can't expect to achieve anything on a Canopy with, say, a -97dBm signal. Furthermore, UBNT will actually link around -95dBm and work, albeit slow. Canopy will say SCANNING We have tested these products, and have networks deployed both here in the states and in Costa Rica. You wouldn't think it, but Costa Rica has waaay more noise than we do here. The government uses 2.4 and 5GHz for random things, people have way overamp'ed equipment, there are a ton of little WISP's, etc. Canopy down there performs as expected... a couple mbps up, a couple mbps down. UBNT MIMO blows it away, especially with AirMax and in a noisy environment. When testing the MIMO you can't just run a single stream, they work best with many streams. We have seen about 130Mbps on a full-duplex on a deployed link, around 15 miles, in a noisy environment. With the PtMP equipment, we see similar results. With the older non-N non-MIMO equipment, we have seen up to 100+ subs on a single PowerStation AP, all getting at least 12Mbps/6Mbps, and latency always under 10ms. I get it, it's a Motorola list. We're on here because we use some of that too. Not much, anymore, because there are much better products out there. I'm sure this will start a flame war, as talk of anything other than Canopy always does, and I don't really care. The equipment is cheap enough, if you want to see it for yourself buy some and put it in. When you see it works as well as we've seen, you, too, can offer your subs 12Mbps for $25/mo and make killer profits. Our ROI on a new install is 1 Day. We make money the day it's installed. And it just works, we never have customers calling to complain. Cheers! On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh new product is its inferred that there might be a low cost dual pol sector antenna available now? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com To: wireless wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps real throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
So it's not even going to work as well as a Mikrotik system with "Disable CSMA" turned on... Travis Microserv Gino Villarini wrote: bit more info on the airmax protocol fro ubiquiti: Yes AirMax is the TDMA/Polling aspect of the software/hardware. This can be shut off. The backoff rules of the 802.11 protocol still apply to a certain extent (only from outside sources - inside the Ap/Client network they all have different time slots so they avoid collisions and hidden nodes all together.) So the polling doesnt take away the CSMA backoff mechanism of 802.11x from other noise sources From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Gino Villarini Sent: Tue 8/18/2009 8:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Jason Im sorry but i find some stated facts very difficult to believe. the 25db vs 3db snr ratio is based on the fact that canopy can perform as expected with just 3db over noise. MIMO based gear needs about 25 db snr ratio on both polarities in order to achieve good performence on 64qam and 2 chains. So if your noise floor is -80, youll need a -55 signal to get the high performance. I guessing hte nano / loco units would be good for really close clients, rocket dish for all others Gino From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Jayson Baker Sent: Tue 8/18/2009 7:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP MIMO (especially dual-pol) gets you much better performance. Cell phone companies have been doing this for years and years. You're 3dB vs 25dB comment is misleading. UBNT may need a received level of -70dBm to achieve higher speeds... but, so does a Canopy. You can't expect to achieve anything on a Canopy with, say, a -97dBm signal. Furthermore, UBNT will actually link around -95dBm and work, albeit slow. Canopy will say "SCANNING" We have tested these products, and have networks deployed both here in the states and in Costa Rica. You wouldn't think it, but Costa Rica has waaay more noise than we do here. The government uses 2.4 and 5GHz for random things, people have way overamp'ed equipment, there are a ton of little WISP's, etc. Canopy down there performs as expected... a couple mbps up, a couple mbps down. UBNT MIMO blows it away, especially with AirMax and in a noisy environment. When testing the MIMO you can't just run a single stream, they work best with many streams. We have seen about 130Mbps on a full-duplex on a deployed link, around 15 miles, in a noisy environment. With the PtMP equipment, we see similar results. With the older non-N non-MIMO equipment, we have seen up to 100+ subs on a single PowerStation AP, all getting at least 12Mbps/6Mbps, and latency always under 10ms. I get it, it's a Motorola list. We're on here because we use some of that too. Not much, anymore, because there are much better products out there. I'm sure this will start a flame war, as talk of anything other than Canopy always does, and I don't really care. The equipment is cheap enough, if you want to see it for yourself buy some and put it in. When you see it works as well as we've seen, you, too, can offer your subs 12Mbps for $25/mo and make killer profits. Our ROI on a new install is 1 Day. We make money the day it's installed. And it just works, we never have customers calling to complain. Cheers! On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh new product is its inferred that there might be a low cost dual pol sector antenna available now? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Paul Hendry" paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com To: "wireless" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps "real" throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on.
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
I'm going to call BS here... (1) You don't really have a "noisy" environment if you are able to run a basic Powerstation AP with 100 subs and have it work at all. We are on towers on hilltops that have over 120 antennas (dishes, sectors, omnis) within a 500ft radius from our tower. (2) You aren't shooting 10-15 miles in a point to multi-point configuration (3) Your math doesn't work. 100+ subs on a Powerstation AP (even if it's doing 130Mbps), that's 1.3Mbps per sub. There is no way _every_ speed test is 12Mbps down and 6Mbps up with 100 people connected. (4) How many total customers do you have on wireless? (5) Why doesn't your homepage load (www.spectrasurf.com)? (6) Our ROI using Canopy is 0 days. :) (7) Even one of the lead engineers at Ubiquiti said the product is designed more for countries with little or no internet service "where they will be happy with ISDN speeds". I have a test setup on the way. I will test and report back what the "real" world is on this equipment. ;) Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: MIMO (especially dual-pol) gets you much better performance. Cell phone companies have been doing this for years and years. You're 3dB vs 25dB comment is misleading. UBNT may need a received level of -70dBm to achieve higher speeds... but, so does a Canopy. You can't expect to achieve anything on a Canopy with, say, a -97dBm signal. Furthermore, UBNT will actually link around -95dBm and work, albeit slow. Canopy will say "SCANNING" We have tested these products, and have networks deployed both here in the states and in Costa Rica. You wouldn't think it, but Costa Rica has waaay more noise than we do here. The government uses 2.4 and 5GHz for random things, people have way overamp'ed equipment, there are a ton of little WISP's, etc. Canopy down there performs as expected... a couple mbps up, a couple mbps down. UBNT MIMO blows it away, especially with AirMax and in a noisy environment. When testing the MIMO you can't just run a single stream, they work best with many streams. We have seen about 130Mbps on a full-duplex on a deployed link, around 15 miles, in a noisy environment. With the PtMP equipment, we see similar results. With the older non-N non-MIMO equipment, we have seen up to 100+ subs on a single PowerStation AP, all getting at least 12Mbps/6Mbps, and latency always under 10ms. I get it, it's a Motorola list. We're on here because we use some of that too. Not much, anymore, because there are much better products out there. I'm sure this will start a flame war, as talk of anything other than Canopy always does, and I don't really care. The equipment is cheap enough, if you want to see it for yourself buy some and put it in. When you see it works as well as we've seen, you, too, can offer your subs 12Mbps for $25/mo and make killer profits. Our ROI on a new install is 1 Day. We make money the day it's installed. And it just works, we never have customers calling to complain. Cheers! On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh new product is its inferred that there might be a low cost dual pol sector antenna available now? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Paul Hendry" paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com To: "wireless" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps "real" throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless L
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
sectors, qty 3 120 sectors with w/ 2 pol Mimo MIGHT be ble to deliver that same capacity as qty 6 non-mimo, if the channel availabilty managed to work out. But it would be at a penalty of less flexibilty of which channel could be used where. The other areas I see MIMO PtMP could possibly work better than non-MIMO is in 5.4Ghz. MIMO's range extending benefit could be extremely useful for low power 5.4, which other wise was range limited, where it has 250Mhz of available clean spectrum to pick channels from. But here, I'd think 3x - 4x MIMO more useful. Another thing worthy to re-investigate is spatial diversity benefits. In the past this has been pushed aside because the minimal increased performance benefit may not have justified the higher costs, with true cost to having multiple antenna, whether it be colocation cost , purchase cost, or simply space. However, now that smaller and cheaper antennas and higher power radios are being made, the performance of spacial diversity may become cost justified. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP MIMO (especially dual-pol) gets you much better performance. Cell phone companies have been doing this for years and years. You're 3dB vs 25dB comment is misleading. UBNT may need a received level of -70dBm to achieve higher speeds... but, so does a Canopy. You can't expect to achieve anything on a Canopy with, say, a -97dBm signal. Furthermore, UBNT will actually link around -95dBm and work, albeit slow. Canopy will say SCANNING We have tested these products, and have networks deployed both here in the states and in Costa Rica. You wouldn't think it, but Costa Rica has waaay more noise than we do here. The government uses 2.4 and 5GHz for random things, people have way overamp'ed equipment, there are a ton of little WISP's, etc. Canopy down there performs as expected... a couple mbps up, a couple mbps down. UBNT MIMO blows it away, especially with AirMax and in a noisy environment. When testing the MIMO you can't just run a single stream, they work best with many streams. We have seen about 130Mbps on a full-duplex on a deployed link, around 15 miles, in a noisy environment. With the PtMP equipment, we see similar results. With the older non-N non-MIMO equipment, we have seen up to 100+ subs on a single PowerStation AP, all getting at least 12Mbps/6Mbps, and latency always under 10ms. I get it, it's a Motorola list. We're on here because we use some of that too. Not much, anymore, because there are much better products out there. I'm sure this will start a flame war, as talk of anything other than Canopy always does, and I don't really care. The equipment is cheap enough, if you want to see it for yourself buy some and put it in. When you see it works as well as we've seen, you, too, can offer your subs 12Mbps for $25/mo and make killer profits. Our ROI on a new install is 1 Day. We make money the day it's installed. And it just works, we never have customers calling to complain. Cheers! On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: Yeah, but its misleading garbage specs. Mimo adds very little in noisy environments, where double size channels and both polarities can't be both used based on spectrum availabilty, not to mention specifying gross speed instead of actual speeds. I'm not saying the Ubiquiti isn't a really nice needed product, I'm just saying, in real world use, I'm not certain its faster than Motorola PtMP, including advantage series. (per Mhz wide channel efficiency). Don't forget the 3b SNR required by canopy and the 25db snr required by Ubiquiti for high modulations, which is rarely acheived in PtMP. Remember, a flaky packetlossy link is going to bring TCP down to its knees in throuhgput reduction. The most exciting thing about teh new product is its inferred that there might be a low cost dual pol sector antenna available now? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Paul Hendry paul.hen...@skyline-networks.com To: wireless wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Anyone had a chance to fully test any of Ubiquiti's claims like 150+mbps real throughput and 300+ subscribers per AP? Much more impressive numbers than Canopy. Matt wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Anything like GPS sync for frequency reuse? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
I am the the devil's advocateThey are one step closer. Put us some gps timing in and they got it whooped (although I doubt it will ever happen under the MAC consideration's). But for me in the middle of BFE, it will work great for a 1/3 or more of the price. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:36:21 -0400 Just looked it all over. Yep, depending on AVAILABILITY... they will definitely have a large chunk of my cash very soon. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 6:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Regards Michael Baird I'll let it be out a couple months to let some bugs get worked out of a new product with a new operating system. Still, I'd be tempted to get a pair to play with. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:22:29AM -0500, Matt wrote: Any idea when the Bullet M5 HP will be available? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Sometimes people find that the impossible actually is possible. The world used to be flat too :) ... until their understanding increased. I have two radios on my desk that cost less than $500 for the pair including antennas that will do 100MB using MIMO technology. I also find that given the same frequency usage I get double throughput of non MIMO gear. I also find that the non-MIMO gear gets twice the throughput of the Trango gear I had, and that the Trango gear got more throughput than the last generation MOto gear etc You get the picture :) I'm calling this stuff a game changer, and its not even the Ubiquity gear (Mikrotik). Price is certainly cheap enough to play with in the near future... We shall see. All things aside, should work very well for PTP BH shots for unlicensed gear. I'd hate to be trying to sell a 10K unlicensed 100-300MB link right now with the industry changes coming about. You could spend $1000 and get two of them running together for redundancy / increased throughput / full duplex etc (I'd use OSPF to do this). The more expensive gear will still have its uses but this gear should fill a large unlicensed void that existed until now... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Sorry dude, I love Ubiquity, but 100 subs on a atheros system on a chip at 12/6 - Impossible. 130 Mbps throughput on a 100 mb ethernet port - Impossible. 130 Mbps at 15 miles when full modulation at 40 mhz w/2 antennas is 130 Mbps is -Impossible. YOU haven't tested any of the new UBNT gear, so your suppositions are - Impossible. Regards Michael Baird I never said you had to believe me. I know what we do, what our environment is like, and what works for us. I know our customers always get 12Mbps, and we never get support calls. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Jason Im sorry but i find some stated facts very difficult to believe. the 25db vs 3db snr ratio is based on the fact that canopy can perform as expected with just 3db over noise. MIMO based gear needs about 25 db snr ratio on both polarities in order to achieve good performence on 64qam and 2 chains. So if your noise floor is -80, youll need a -55 signal to get the high performance. I guessing hte nano / loco units would be good for really close clients, rocket dish for all others Gino From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Jayson Baker Sent: Tue 8/18/2009 7:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP MIMO (especially dual-pol) gets you much better performance. Cell phone companies have been doing this for years and years. You're 3dB vs 25dB comment is misleading. UBNT may need a received level of -70dBm to achieve higher speeds... but, so does a Canopy. You can't expect to achieve anything on a Canopy with, say, a -97dBm signal. Furthermore, UBNT will actually link around -95dBm and work, albeit slow. Canopy will say SCANNING We have tested these products, and have networks deployed both here in the states and in Costa Rica. You wouldn't think it, but Costa Rica has waaay more noise than we do here. The government uses 2.4 and 5GHz for random things, people have way overamp'ed equipment, there are a ton of little WISP's, etc. Canopy down there performs as expected... a couple mbps up, a couple mbps down. UBNT MIMO blows it away, especially with AirMax and in a noisy environment. When testing the MIMO you can't just run a single stream, they work best with many streams. We have seen about 130Mbps on a full-duplex on a deployed link, around 15 miles, in a noisy environment. With the PtMP equipment, we see similar results. With the older non-N non-MIMO equipment, we have seen up to 100+ subs on a single PowerStation AP, all getting at least 12Mbps/6Mbps, and latency always under 10ms. I get it, it's a Motorola list. We're on here because we use some of that too. Not much, anymore, because there are much better products out there. I'm sure this will start a flame war, as talk of anything other than Canopy always does, and I don't really care. The equipment is cheap enough, if you want to see it for yourself buy some and put it in. When you see it works as well as we've seen, you, too, can offer your subs 12Mbps for $25/mo and make killer profits. Our ROI on a new install is 1 Day. We make money the day it's installed. And it just works, we never have customers calling to complain. Cheers! On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Yeah, but its misleading garbage
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Hey Travis, your feedback is always valued. Thanks for sharing your testing with us. I look forward to hearing about it... Have you had a chance to test some MT MIMO gear out there yet? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:27 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Tom, I believe there is a huge advantage to being able to use HPOL and VPOL at the same time with the same 20Mhz channel and get twice the bandwidth. Its sort of like your personal gps sync within the device. Realistically (for me anyway) I find that if there is strong noise on a give channel and its close enough (same tower / site) than changing the polarity won't help make the freq usable any way. Therefore I argue that MIMO (2x2) allows for BH use the actual more efficient use of spectrum. I do not compare that at all to the same as using two different 20Mhz chunks of spectrum and argue that you can indeed get twice the bandwidth out of the same 20Mhz (or 40Mhz if your environment allows) spectrum. I'm seeing it right now in my test gear or I'd be a skeptical as the bunch... I like what I see so far but my testing has been somewhat limited. I'll know a lot more this time next month. I'm sure this discussion will do nothing but get more interesting in the near future when the rubber hits the road. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Yes, I have a "test" set of the MT with the R52n card. I was able to do 55Mbps of actual TCP throughput with a single antenna using RB411 boards. So, for about $200 for a complete link (plus antennas), you can have a 50Mbps ptp link using a single 20mhz channel (and single polarity). I also saw the same results with the Bullet5M units. They are easy, fast and should work very well for point to point links. Travis Microserv Scott Carullo wrote: Hey Travis, your feedback is always valued. Thanks for sharing your testing with us. I look forward to hearing about it... Have you had a chance to test some MT MIMO gear out there yet? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: "Travis Johnson" t...@ida.net Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:27 PM To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
We do have the gear, both MikroTik and Ubiquiti. In the test lab situation with Ubiquiti we are only seeing 25-30MBit/s. In real world my customers are seeing the same thing. I'm hoping to get another test going tomorrow to check to see if we can do anything better than 25-30MBit/s. I wish I had better results, but we can't get the throughput advertised. Problem is, Mikrotik 802.11a/b/g gets the same thing. MikroTik's first RouterOS to feature the n protocol was slightly lacking, but hey it's beta. Next release came out and fixed quite a few of the issues. One thing we do have in play is MikroTik's 802.11n gear. I'm using ARC dual-pol antennas, with the R5N, real world testing at 3 Miles PtP, 60+MBit/s (we don't have 100% perfect LOS, I see the top of the 300' tower, and we're at 150' for this link). Not bad for a set of devices at under $500. I'm not trying to bash Jayson's email. I don't see how you can get 130Mbit when the port is 100Mbit. The only way I could imagine that a PowerStation AP could get 100 subs with 12MB/6MB is when 99 of them are not using it and 1 is, but even at that, I don't believe it. The simple way the 802.11a/b/g protocol works, the beacons it sends out, wireless frames, the so called noisy environment, that has all been portrayed makes me extremely skeptical. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Hey Travis, your feedback is always valued. Thanks for sharing your testing with us. I look forward to hearing about it... Have you had a chance to test some MT MIMO gear out there yet? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:27 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Chuck Hogg wrote: ... I'm not trying to bash Jayson's email. I don't see how you can get 130Mbit when the port is 100Mbit. The way Ubiquiti justified this in a forum post was that the 130Mbps is total throughput (up and down). 100Mbps ethernet at full duplex is 100Mbps in each direction. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
I concur with Scott's idea that you get more efficient spectrum use. We have just installed a Solectek excel link which uses 2x2 mimo. We have a dual polarity 3' dish at one and and 2' dual polarity at the other end of the 14 mile link. We upgraded an Alvarion VL ptp link which maxed out at about 32mb. This Solectek is advertised as 100+mb, and uses the same 20mhz. We were getting 75mbit using rb433ah as the testing devices while 15-20mbit of traffic was already on the link, and we didn't have the modulation all the way up either. It could go faster if we used PCs to test, used top modulation, used multiple data sources to test, weren't doing it with live traffic, etc... So the testing is very preliminary but the performance is definitely not overstated in this case. So we've effectively tripled our bandwidth over a traditional OFDM link using the same amount of spectrum. We needed the speed right now and didn't want to wait for the UBNT product to be available and mature, and didn't want to be slowed down by a licensing process for a fancier high bandwidth system. Whether it's useful for ptmp depends on the frequency and location. Both polarities are not always available for ptmp use. Sometimes this is so because of interference from other WISPs, sometimes it's due to your own spectrum management where you alternate polarities when the same frequeny is used in an overlapping area but from a different tower. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:50:52PM -0400, Scott Carullo wrote: Tom, I believe there is a huge advantage to being able to use HPOL and VPOL at the same time with the same 20Mhz channel and get twice the bandwidth. Its sort of like your personal gps sync within the device. Realistically (for me anyway) I find that if there is strong noise on a give channel and its close enough (same tower / site) than changing the polarity won't help make the freq usable any way. Therefore I argue that MIMO (2x2) allows for BH use the actual more efficient use of spectrum. I do not compare that at all to the same as using two different 20Mhz chunks of spectrum and argue that you can indeed get twice the bandwidth out of the same 20Mhz (or 40Mhz if your environment allows) spectrum. I'm seeing it right now in my test gear or I'd be a skeptical as the bunch... I like what I see so far but my testing has been somewhat limited. I'll know a lot more this time next month. I'm sure this discussion will do nothing but get more interesting in the near future when the rubber hits the road. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Any idea when the Bullet M5 HP will be available? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
It's available now, they are supposed to make an announcement today about the complete M line. NanoM/NanoLocoM/RocketM and such, those are all Mimo/N/TDMA. Regards Michael Baird Any idea when the Bullet M5 HP will be available? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
It's available now, they are supposed to make an announcement today about the complete M line. NanoM/NanoLocoM/RocketM and such, those are all Mimo/N/TDMA. Where can I order a couple? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
I got 8 coming from Wisp Router but I think they're out of stock again. Just gotta spin the Vendor Wheel and see who has it today if any. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP It's available now, they are supposed to make an announcement today about the complete M line. NanoM/NanoLocoM/RocketM and such, those are all Mimo/N/TDMA. Where can I order a couple? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
I'll let it be out a couple months to let some bugs get worked out of a new product with a new operating system. Still, I'd be tempted to get a pair to play with. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:22:29AM -0500, Matt wrote: Any idea when the Bullet M5 HP will be available? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Regards Michael Baird I'll let it be out a couple months to let some bugs get worked out of a new product with a new operating system. Still, I'd be tempted to get a pair to play with. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:22:29AM -0500, Matt wrote: Any idea when the Bullet M5 HP will be available? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
Just looked it all over. Yep, depending on AVAILABILITY... they will definitely have a large chunk of my cash very soon. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 6:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Regards Michael Baird I'll let it be out a couple months to let some bugs get worked out of a new product with a new operating system. Still, I'd be tempted to get a pair to play with. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:22:29AM -0500, Matt wrote: Any idea when the Bullet M5 HP will be available? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bullet M5 HP
What I want is the home wireless router like the AP-1000 they advertise but you cant find. -RickG On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Michael Bairdm...@tc3net.com wrote: Ubiquity has introduced their new product lines, at www.ubnt.com. Looking to take Canopy on. Regards Michael Baird I'll let it be out a couple months to let some bugs get worked out of a new product with a new operating system. Still, I'd be tempted to get a pair to play with. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:22:29AM -0500, Matt wrote: Any idea when the Bullet M5 HP will be available? Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
