Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Digital Bridge has asked for money for Underserved for the county that I service, the whole county. Questions: 1. Since I am the only WISP in the Rural areas of my county and my standard is 1024/256 with 2.4 and there is 50% of the clients that I cant get due to trees. I assume that that will be seen as Underserved. Is there anything that I can do to get this blocked? 2. Now it appears that they asked for money for all the Census blocks in the county. ALL the cities have My service, DSL, and Cable. How can that be labeled as Underserved. If we get one Block rejected does that stop the one request which would be all my area? Steve Barnes Manager PCS-WIN RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:42 PM To: WISPA General List; motorola Canopy User Group Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Here is a link to maps of the projects: http://bit.ly/3p2be3 I count four cell phone companies in my areas looking for stimulus money to expand their existing phone networks. What a crock! Also, a big chunk of the country is covered by the Satellite providers wanting money to upgrade their satellite network. Since when does that actually improve broadband availability? I guess it is sort of like broadband-lite. Ack! Matt Larsen vistabeam.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Steve Barnes wrote: > Digital Bridge has asked for money for Underserved for the county > that I service, the whole county. > Questions: > 1. Since I am the only WISP in the Rural areas of my county and my > standard is 1024/256 with 2.4 and there is 50% of the clients that I > cant get due to trees. I assume that that will be seen as > Underserved. Is there anything that I can do to get this blocked? Just a quit though - correct me if I am wrong, but... Isnt blocking competition very un-American somehow? Is "blocking" even possible? I hope you also applied for getting thru the trees, no? > 2. Now it appears that they asked for money for all the Census > blocks in the county. ALL the cities have My service, DSL, and > Cable. How can that be labeled as Underserved. If we get one Block > rejected does that stop the one request which would be all my area? --- there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday) (üäö) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
He isn't asking to block the competition, only the availability of taxpayer $ being used to drive him out of business. L. Aaron Kaplan wrote: > On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Steve Barnes wrote: > > >> Digital Bridge has asked for money for Underserved for the county >> that I service, the whole county. >> Questions: >> 1. Since I am the only WISP in the Rural areas of my county and my >> standard is 1024/256 with 2.4 and there is 50% of the clients that I >> cant get due to trees. I assume that that will be seen as >> Underserved. Is there anything that I can do to get this blocked? >> > > Just a quit though - correct me if I am wrong, but... > > Isnt blocking competition very un-American somehow? > Is "blocking" even possible? > > I hope you also applied for getting thru the trees, no? > > > >> 2. Now it appears that they asked for money for all the Census >> blocks in the county. ALL the cities have My service, DSL, and >> Cable. How can that be labeled as Underserved. If we get one Block >> rejected does that stop the one request which would be all my area? >> > > --- > there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday) > > (üäö) > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.98/2371 - Release Date: 09/14/09 > 17:52:00 > > -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
> > Just a quit though - correct me if I am wrong, but... > > Isnt blocking competition very un-American somehow? > Is "blocking" even possible? Seriously? You would categorize government-subsidized broadband expansion as capitalistic competition? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
On Sep 15, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Brian Whigham wrote: >> >> Just a quit though - correct me if I am wrong, but... >> >> Isnt blocking competition very un-American somehow? >> Is "blocking" even possible? > > > Seriously? You would categorize government-subsidized broadband > expansion > as capitalistic competition? > Well - on the other hand - many of us on the list would not be against receiving some ;-)) --- there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday) (üäö) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
> > > Seriously? You would categorize government-subsidized broadband > expansion > as capitalistic competition? I should have said - receiving some funds and thus increasing the speed of biz expansion. I see nothing un-capitalistic per se about receiving funds in order to revive the economy. The real question however is, will *only* the big boys get something thus driving the smaller boys out of biz! (maybe that is the case in the original posting and I just did not know it). *If* the stimulus package would be needed in the first place however, is of course a completely different topic. But seems like I just put my fingers into a wound. Sorry about that. Not intended. --- there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Yeah, it amazes me how much greed was in the applcation. Some large applicants, "the wealthiest" identified the top number and molded an applcation to go for that dollar amount. For example, Satelite providers approaching 1/2 billion dollars. Or a State asking for 1/50th or more of funds, wanting it all, over their share if each state got only "1" grant, to depleat total available funds. Or companies like Fiber tower with large total dollar of grants, that caters to Cell Phone companies. Why does a mobile RBOC need to submit, and have their income potential restricted, when their wholesale carrier will do it for them? Or Companies like TowerStream, in the top 5 most financed fixed wireless companies, and proven unprofitable business models because they overspend, applying for Urban markets, that clearly ONLY target HIGH ARPU subs, and never in a million years regardless of what their application might say, would EVER serve vulnerable LOW ARPU population, in my opinion. Dont misunderstand me, they are all very fine companies, and I dont blaim them for trying to apply. I just dont see how their company profiles would match the intent of the programs, or the requirement "without grant would never be able to cost justify the deployment, or unable to find investment to do it" criterias. But with 800+ applicants, there are quite a few for NTIA/RUS to choose from. Just because someone applies doesn't mean they'll be selected. I just hope NTIA/RUS can see the truth behind the applicants' goals, and make the best decissions. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Matt Larsen - Lists" To: "WISPA General List" ; "motorola Canopy User Group" Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > Here is a link to maps of the projects: > > http://bit.ly/3p2be3 > > I count four cell phone companies in my areas looking for stimulus money > to expand their existing phone networks. What a crock! > > Also, a big chunk of the country is covered by the Satellite providers > wanting money to upgrade their satellite network. Since when does that > actually improve broadband availability? I guess it is sort of like > broadband-lite. > > Ack! > > Matt Larsen > vistabeam.com > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Realistically, you can't block the application if you can reach less than 50% of the households in an area. Plus they are probably applying for funds to cover an area larger than (or at least not completely coincident with) yours, which would likely make a successful challenge improbable at best. However, BTOP requires that they offer interconnection, and strongly encouages them to offer a real wholesale arrangement. It might be worth your time to approach them about it. Chuck Sent from my iPhone On Sep 15, 2009, at 8:49 AM, "L. Aaron Kaplan" wrote: > > On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Steve Barnes wrote: > >> Digital Bridge has asked for money for Underserved for the county >> that I service, the whole county. >> Questions: >> 1. Since I am the only WISP in the Rural areas of my county and my >> standard is 1024/256 with 2.4 and there is 50% of the clients that I >> cant get due to trees. I assume that that will be seen as >> Underserved. Is there anything that I can do to get this blocked? > > Just a quit though - correct me if I am wrong, but... > > Isnt blocking competition very un-American somehow? > Is "blocking" even possible? > > I hope you also applied for getting thru the trees, no? > > >> 2. Now it appears that they asked for money for all the Census >> blocks in the county. ALL the cities have My service, DSL, and >> Cable. How can that be labeled as Underserved. If we get one Block >> rejected does that stop the one request which would be all my area? > > --- > there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday) > > (üäö) > > > > --- > --- > --- > --- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > --- > --- > --- > --- > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Yes, It definateately IS appropriate to attempt to BLOCK bad applications. The NTIA/RUS has no way to know if an applcation is innapproriate or in conflict of interest if we dont tell them. Quite honestly, the applicant may not know it is in conflict of interest without telling them. I specifically hate applacation that just selected 1 HUGE contiguous area. The reason is, they did't take the time that they should ahve to look down to the census block level to determine what blocks really are and aren't underserved areas. If anything it is the LARGE AREA applicants that are attempting to scam the system, to get grant money for served areas, with the hope no one will protest it. There is nothing wrong with competition. But this grant is NOT creating competition. It is giving the applicant a SUPER HUGE advantage over any other pre-existing provider in the area, and that is anti-American,and anti-fair-competition in my mind. To give a new provider a free network, and the existing provider no funds, is a disaster plan to put pre-existing businesses out of business, and to risk throwing away the much investment made by those original entreprenures. What I recommend is that people diligently protest, but with fact, and suggested resolution. The goal should NOT to prevent the party from gaining a grant to serve truely underserved/unserved areas, but to instead incourage NTIA/RUS to force the applicant to revise its applicant to remedy the conflict of Interest. Also note that once an area gets a grant, it very possible that NTIA/RUS may never give another grant to that same area. When this is done at the Census Block level it is no problem, because applicants can narrow down to each area that they serve and dont serve. But when someone lists an ENTIRE County, it risks that future legitimate application for needy census blocks will be denied because of the area being recorded as already served by a grant applicant. Is it right for an Entire county to be given to a new provider? Remember applicants are required to serve ALL customer in an area. That means they will be getting grant money to put you out of business. I also think there is a misconception that the protestor must prove the data that shows its not underserved. I do not believe that is 100% true. I think ther eis a clear valid arguement that if an applicant cant afford to gather the mapping data to file for their own grant, they surely should not be required to spent lots of money to map the errors in other people's application. I believe aprotestor should only have to protest to the level that creates a reasonable amount of doubt about the applicant. The burden to prove coverage is on the applicant's original submission. So if you protest an applicant by saying it is a served area by cable and fios, the applicant's original data should have to prove it FIOS and Cable does not overlap it, not you. If they submitted incomplete documetnation, that is there problem, and should lead to the disqualification of their application. You being a provider in the area with a small market share, will not likely be enough to protest an application on its own, but it should still be possible to build a case. For example, lets say there are three applicants, and two were careful not tto overlap your coverage, but one applicant did overlap you. Simple state that the applicant that overlapped you clearly did not do his homework to isolate which areas are served or not, and that you support the other two applicants that properly identified and avoided conflciting areas. The idea is to develop support for the applications that won't harm you. And give the NTIA/RUS an option to award grants that will create possitive press and not negative press. I beleive the overnment wants this program to besuccessful, and nobody wants an aftermath press stating things like "grant money puts local businesses out of business". Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "L. Aaron Kaplan" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Steve Barnes wrote: > Digital Bridge has asked for money for Underserved for the county > that I service, the whole county. > Questions: > 1. Since I am the only WISP in the Rural areas of my county and my > standard is 1024/256 with 2.4 and there is 50% of the clients that I > cant get due to trees. I assume that that will be seen as > Underserved. Is there anything that I can do to get this blocked? Just a quit though - correct me if I am wrong, but... Isnt blocking competition very un-American somehow? Is "blocking" even possible? I hope you also applied for getting thru the trees, no? > 2. Now it appears that they as
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. The NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer money optimally wisely and benefit the public, and adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, but didn;t have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get approved if its less good? And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA what we think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the public that has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that targeted truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that would directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I plan to protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre-existing providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them into the proposal to gain their support. If they didn't do that, they deserve to have their applications protested, in my opinion. As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on applying for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and advising that the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to projects without alledged conflict of interests first, and at minimum deny the conflcit of interest applicants until round2, where they can be mroe fairly considered, and so there is more time to gain fact on what is and isn't underserved areas, and consider all potential applicants for the areas. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "L. Aaron Kaplan" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > >> >> Seriously? You would categorize government-subsidized broadband >> expansion >> as capitalistic competition? > > > I should have said - receiving some funds and thus increasing the > speed of biz expansion. > I see nothing un-capitalistic per se about receiving funds in order to > revive the economy. > > The real question however is, will *only* the big boys get something > thus driving the smaller boys out of biz! > (maybe that is the case in the original posting and I just did not > know it). > > > *If* the stimulus package would be needed in the first place however, > is of course a completely different topic. > > But seems like I just put my fingers into a wound. Sorry about that. > Not intended. > > > --- > there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday) > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
I found this page on the USDA web site with a database of Broadband projects funded by the USDA. It looks like this will also be the site that ISPs can use to find proposed BIP/BTOP projects in their area and file a challenge. You can sign up to receive e-mail when a new Public Notice of Filing (PNF) is posted that lists new proposed projects at: http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/Subscription/Initiate.aspx?action=create You can search for existing projects at: http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/SearchTabs.aspx or look at them on a map at: http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/AllStatesMap.aspx You can look up the PNFs and file a response at: http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/LegalNoticeFiling/List.Aspx This is a response form which shows you the type of information required to file a response/challenge: http://www.usda.gov/rus/telecom/broadband/pdf/legal-notice-response-form-kk.pdf USDA uses an online mapping tool to create maps that show service areas. The tool requires an account with the USDA eAuthentication system. It may take a couple of days to have your account approved, so apply sooner than later. You can sign up for an account at: https://eauth.sc.egov.usda.gov/eAuth/selfRegistration/selfRegLevel1Step1.jsp Again, this is what I have found searching the USDA web site. The site has language about BIP & BTOP but there has not been an official announcement that this is the site that will be used. Tim > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:43 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > Realistically, you can't block the application if you can reach less > than 50% of the households in an area. Plus they are probably applying > for funds to cover an area larger than (or at least not completely > coincident with) yours, which would likely make a successful challenge > improbable at best. > > However, BTOP requires that they offer interconnection, and strongly > encouages them to offer a real wholesale arrangement. It might be > worth your time to approach them about it. > > Chuck > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 15, 2009, at 8:49 AM, "L. Aaron Kaplan" > wrote: > > > > > On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Steve Barnes wrote: > > > >> Digital Bridge has asked for money for Underserved for the county > >> that I service, the whole county. > >> Questions: > >> 1. Since I am the only WISP in the Rural areas of my county and my > >> standard is 1024/256 with 2.4 and there is 50% of the clients that I > >> cant get due to trees. I assume that that will be seen as > >> Underserved. Is there anything that I can do to get this blocked? > > > > Just a quit though - correct me if I am wrong, but... > > > > Isnt blocking competition very un-American somehow? > > Is "blocking" even possible? > > > > I hope you also applied for getting thru the trees, no? > > > > > >> 2. Now it appears that they asked for money for all the Census > >> blocks in the county. ALL the cities have My service, DSL, and > >> Cable. How can that be labeled as Underserved. If we get one Block > >> rejected does that stop the one request which would be all my area? > > > > --- > > there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday) > > > > (üäö) > > > > > > > > --- > > --- > > --- > > --- > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > --- > > --- > > --- > > --- > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > --- > - > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > --- > - > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
imple > state > that the applicant that overlapped you clearly did not do his > homework to > isolate which areas are served or not, and that you support the > other two > applicants that properly identified and avoided conflciting areas. > > The idea is to develop support for the applications that won't harm > you. And > give the NTIA/RUS an option to award grants that will create > possitive press > and not negative press. > I beleive the overnment wants this program to besuccessful, and > nobody wants > an aftermath press stating things like "grant money puts local > businesses > out of business". > > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > - Original Message - > From: "L. Aaron Kaplan" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:49 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > > > On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Steve Barnes wrote: > >> Digital Bridge has asked for money for Underserved for the county >> that I service, the whole county. >> Questions: >> 1. Since I am the only WISP in the Rural areas of my county and my >> standard is 1024/256 with 2.4 and there is 50% of the clients that I >> cant get due to trees. I assume that that will be seen as >> Underserved. Is there anything that I can do to get this blocked? > > Just a quit though - correct me if I am wrong, but... > > Isnt blocking competition very un-American somehow? > Is "blocking" even possible? > > I hope you also applied for getting thru the trees, no? > > >> 2. Now it appears that they asked for money for all the Census >> blocks in the county. ALL the cities have My service, DSL, and >> Cable. How can that be labeled as Underserved. If we get one Block >> rejected does that stop the one request which would be all my area? > > --- > there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday) > > (üäö) > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 "When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee?" From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't think it's a good plan. In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you can find it on line. The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach you're suggesting as I understood the circular. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: > Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. > The > NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer > money > optimally wisely and benefit the public, and > adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, > but didn;t > have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get > approved > if its less good? > And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA > what we > think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the > public that > has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. > > I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that > targeted > truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider > infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. > For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that > would > directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I > plan to > protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- > existing > providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them > into the > proposal to gain their support. If they didn't do that, they > deserve to > have their applications protested, in my opinion. > > As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on > applying > for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and > advising that > the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to > projects > without alledged conflict of interests first, and at minimum deny the > conflcit of interest applicants until round2, where they can be mroe > fairly > considered, and so there is more time to gain fact on what is and > isn't > underserved areas, and consider all potential applicants for the > areas. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > - Original Message - > From: "L. Aaron Kaplan" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:19 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > >>> >>> >>> Seriously? You would categorize government-subsidized broadband >>> expansion >>> as capitalistic competition? >> >> >> I should have said - receiving some funds and thus increasing the >> speed of biz expansion. >> I see nothing un-capitalistic per se about receiving funds in order >> to >> revive the economy. >> >> The real question however is, will *only* the big boys get something >> thus driving the smaller boys out of biz! >> (maybe that is the case in the original posting and I just did not >> know it). >> >> >> *If* the stimulus package would be needed in the first place however, >> is of course a completely different topic. >> >> But seems like I just put my fingers into a wound. Sorry about that. >> Not intended. >> >> >> --- >> there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday) >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > --
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote: > 50% of the residents (that's what he said, I'll remind you) in his Sorry, that sounded kind of snotty-didn't mean it that way. I meant just that, I'm going by what he explicitly said and not making further assumptions or guesses. The "I'll remind you" was out of place and didn't say what I was trying to say . Chuck -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 "When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee?" From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Chuck, "and you will NOT be able to have a section cut out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do cover it." I agree that its not possible to protest it simply based on the protestor covering part of it. Agreed, "gerrymandering" was incouraged, and I actually agree it should be. But... I disagree that it wont be an option to carve out a piece of the applciation. NTIA/RUS reserved the right to do what ever they want to do. If the protestor can conveince NTIA/RUS that it is in the best interest to all, to simply cut out the conflicting area, its feasible it could occur. I do not believe protesting a GOOD Strong plan will have any effect or value. NObody is going to not fund a good plan because of a wining protestor. But I'm making the statemnet based on the fact that many applicants may have very poor plans. "The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you* have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to justify it at the census block level" I agree that the protestor has to protest at teh block level for the whole area, to protest the claim of "underserved" for the defined area, and that would be hard for a protestor. But I disagree, that is always required. Because... You are assuming that the reason one is protesting based on qualification of underserved. And you are assuming that the protestors proof must be complete. If the applicant did a poor job, and their data is incomplete, the protestor's data may only have to be as complete as the applicant's data + 1. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Chuck Bartosch" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you* have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to justify it at the census block level. And if the area is as the poster describes, it's impossible to challenge. He might have a very good reason why he can't reach even 50% of the residents (that's what he said, I'll remind you) in his area. But, it is irrelevant. They don't care *why* you can't reach the other households...they just care that you don't. If this is a big application then it's going to cover far more than his territory anyway, and you will NOT be able to have a section cut out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do cover it. They went out of their way to encourage "gerrymandering" in the applications, which included the ability to include covered territory as long as the total number of already covered households was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to us). Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: > Yes, It definateately IS appropriate to attempt to BLOCK bad > applications. > The NTIA/RUS has no way to know if an applcation is innapproriate or > in > conflict of interest if we dont tell them. > Quite honestly, the applicant may not know it is in conflict of > interest > without telling them. > > I specifically hate applacation that just selected 1 HUGE contiguous > area. > The reason is, they did't take the time that they should ahve to > look down > to the census block level to determine what blocks really are and > aren't > underserved areas. If anything it is the LARGE AREA applicants that > are > attempting to scam the system, to get grant money for served areas, > with the > hope no one will protest it. > > There is nothing wrong with competition. But this grant is NOT > creating > competition. It is giving the applicant a SUPER HUGE advantage over > any > other pre-existing provider in the area, and that is anti-American,and > anti-fair-competition in my mind. > > To give a new provider a free network, and the existing provider no > funds, > is a disaster plan to put pre-existing businesses out of business, > and to > risk throwing away the much investment made by those original > entreprenures. > > What I recommend is that people diligently protest, but with fact, and > suggested resolution. The goal should NOT to prevent the party from > gaining > a grant to serve truely underserved/unserved areas, but to instead > incourage > NTIA/RUS to force the applicant to revise its applicant to remedy the > conflict of Interest. Also note that once an area gets a grant, it > very > possible that NTIA/RUS may never give another grant to that same > area. When > this is done at the Census Block level it is no problem, because > applicants > can narrow down to each area that they serve and
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
" They went out of their way to encourage "gerrymandering" in the applications, which included the ability to include covered territory as long as the total number of already covered households was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to us)." Or that there's a less than 40% subscribership rate - a lot of people seem to be forgetting that. That's the only way that a lot of applications will be able to remain in consideration for underserved status, given how difficult it is in most areas to find anywhere with less than 50% availability. InLine> vickie edwards, MPA | Grant Specialist InLine> Solutions Through Technology 600 Lakeshore Pkwy Birmingham AL, 35209 205-278-8106 [p] 205-941-1934[f] vedwa...@inline.com www.InLine.com All Quotes from InLine are only valid for 30 days. This message and any attached files may contain confidential information and are intended solely for the message recipient. If you are not the message recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you* have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to justify it at the census block level. And if the area is as the poster describes, it's impossible to challenge. He might have a very good reason why he can't reach even 50% of the residents (that's what he said, I'll remind you) in his area. But, it is irrelevant. They don't care *why* you can't reach the other households...they just care that you don't. If this is a big application then it's going to cover far more than his territory anyway, and you will NOT be able to have a section cut out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do cover it. They went out of their way to encourage "gerrymandering" in the applications, which included the ability to include covered territory as long as the total number of already covered households was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to us). Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: > Yes, It definateately IS appropriate to attempt to BLOCK bad > applications. > The NTIA/RUS has no way to know if an applcation is innapproriate or > in > conflict of interest if we dont tell them. > Quite honestly, the applicant may not know it is in conflict of > interest > without telling them. > > I specifically hate applacation that just selected 1 HUGE contiguous > area. > The reason is, they did't take the time that they should ahve to > look down > to the census block level to determine what blocks really are and > aren't > underserved areas. If anything it is the LARGE AREA applicants that > are > attempting to scam the system, to get grant money for served areas, > with the > hope no one will protest it. > > There is nothing wrong with competition. But this grant is NOT > creating > competition. It is giving the applicant a SUPER HUGE advantage over > any > other pre-existing provider in the area, and that is anti-American,and > anti-fair-competition in my mind. > > To give a new provider a free network, and the existing provider no > funds, > is a disaster plan to put pre-existing businesses out of business, > and to > risk throwing away the much investment made by those original > entreprenures. > > What I recommend is that people diligently protest, but with fact, and > suggested resolution. The goal should NOT to prevent the party from > gaining > a grant to serve truely underserved/unserved areas, but to instead > incourage > NTIA/RUS to force the applicant to revise its applicant to remedy the > conflict of Interest. Also note that once an area gets a grant, it > very > possible that NTIA/RUS may never give another grant to that same > area. When > this is done at the Census Block level it is no problem, because > applicants > can narrow down to each area that they serve and dont serve. But when > someone lists an ENTIRE County, it risks that future legitimate > application > for needy cen
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
On Sep 15, 2009, at 1:48 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: > Chuck, > > "and you will NOT be able to have a section cut > out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do > cover it." > > I agree that its not possible to protest it simply based on the > protestor > covering part of it. Agreed, "gerrymandering" was incouraged, and I > actually > agree it should be. > > But... I disagree that it wont be an option to carve out a piece of > the > applciation. NTIA/RUS reserved the right to do what ever they want > to do. If > the protestor can conveince NTIA/RUS that it is in the best interest > to all, > to simply cut out the conflicting area, its feasible it could occur. Okay, but I don't see how you can convince them of this. You're limited to documenting your coverage; you're not otherwise allowed to comment. That's to prevent people from swaying their judgement inappropriately and in a non-public way. > I do not believe protesting a GOOD Strong plan will have any effect or > value. NObody is going to not fund a good plan because of a wining > protestor. But I'm making the statemnet based on the fact that many > applicants may have very poor plans. Right, I do understand where you're coming from. But because they are legally limited by the OMB as to what they can consider, I don't see the mechanism here. All we can do is hope they can see that an application is poor. > "The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you* > have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to > justify it at the census block level" > > I agree that the protestor has to protest at teh block level for the > whole > area, to protest the claim of "underserved" for the defined area, > and that > would be hard for a protestor. > But I disagree, that is always required. Because... You are assuming > that > the reason one is protesting based on qualification of underserved. > And you > are assuming that the protestors proof must be complete. If the > applicant > did a poor job, and their data is incomplete, the protestor's data > may only > have to be as complete as the applicant's data + 1. I think as long as your data is at least the quality of the applicant's, they should consider it, but if you're saying you cover less than 50% in the first place, they are going to have to reject you out of hand no matter how bad the applicant's data is. They may well say "this is poor documentation" but you're not going to be able to influence that determination except by providing better documentation that proves they don't qualify. In other words, you can't win this just but showing the applicant had poor documentation, you ALSO have to show they don't qualify. Chuck > > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > - Original Message - > From: "Chuck Bartosch" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 12:55 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > > The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you* > have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to > justify it at the census block level. > > And if the area is as the poster describes, it's impossible to > challenge. He might have a very good reason why he can't reach even > 50% of the residents (that's what he said, I'll remind you) in his > area. But, it is irrelevant. They don't care *why* you can't reach the > other households...they just care that you don't. > > If this is a big application then it's going to cover far more than > his territory anyway, and you will NOT be able to have a section cut > out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do > cover it. They went out of their way to encourage "gerrymandering" in > the applications, which included the ability to include covered > territory as long as the total number of already covered households > was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to us). > > Chuck > > On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: > >> Yes, It definateately IS appropriate to attempt to BLOCK bad >> applications. >> The NTIA/RUS has no way to know if an applcation is innapproriate or >> in >> conflict of interest if we dont tell them. >> Quite honestly, the applicant may not know it is in conflict of >> interest >> without telling them. >> >> I specifically hate applacation th
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Chuck, I'm reading from bottom up, and realize in this Email you made some good points here that may adequately counter my thought from my last post. This is all good information, to understand what is and isn't approrpiate ways to protest, and when appropriate. I agree that NTIA/RUS is bound by law, specifically to not allow one applicant to inappropriately sway the judgement for another's application consideration. The purpose in these laws is to prevent preferencial treatment, and allow for a fair evaluation process. But NTIA/RUS did in fact give the public a method to make comments. Even the MAPs have a comment button, for early stage comments to be able to immediately be made. We cant forget that NTIA grants are subjective, and do not have a clear evaluation standard to measure applications like RUS applications do. Decission makers will make decissions based on what they perceive, which will be based on input they are exposed to, whether they intentially mean to consider it or not. And it will be very hard to prove when a decission maker used outside influence to sway their judgement. There will also be several stages of different decission makers, that might be influenced. I also think its possible to submit a defense regarding underserved, with incomplete information, without the basis being one's own coverage or application. For example, it could be stated... "The application covers an area where there are X number of providers, and from our experience have found very few people unserved, did the applicant submit data referencing the coverage and subscription data of companies A,B,C,D,E? If they did not, they would likely have incomplete and inaccurate information. ". What this boils down to is Does a protestor need to prove 100% conclusively its case, or just enough information to create a reasonable amount of doubt, if the applicant did not have a strong case themselves? Regardless, the applicant was required to prove that their area is underserved, if teh applicant did not conclusivel do that, I believe they are just as much at risk that the protestor will get consideration. I believe NTIA/RUS WILL reach out to applicants, to avoid conflicts, even though they dont have to. For example, if a protestor makes a good case, and suggests a good resolution, why wouldn't the NTIA/RUS consider it, and bring it up to the applicant? If I were the applicant, I'd immediately revise the app, and sacrifice a small amount so I could win the large big picture amount. I recognize that NTIA/RUS has been given power to make decissions without talking to applicant, and that decission must be based on teh information the applicant provided, but NTIA/RUS reserved the right to "work it out" as they deem appropriate. In my opinion, at the end of the day, if there are multiple applications for the same reason, I belive they'll want to approve the application that will gain the most public approval. Its very possible that an application that serves 100% underserved areas may be looked at as more preferencial than one that serves both served and unserved areas. > In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly > disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about > individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over > anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage > area. I guess that will be a very relevent document, and something I need to read, as well as anyone else intending to protest an application. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Chuck Bartosch" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't > think it's a good plan. > > In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly > disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about > individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over > anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage > area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you > can find it on line. > > The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed > to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. > > Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms > about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any > form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. > > It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out > what the law allows you to do-and it doesn'
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
I'm including the 40% in the gerrymandering statement. In another response I pointed out that you have to "win" on every argument the applicant makes, not just on the arguments you want to make. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:16 PM, Vickie Edwards wrote: > " They went out of their way to encourage "gerrymandering" in > the applications, which included the ability to include covered > territory as long as the total number of already covered households > was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to > us)." > > Or that there's a less than 40% subscribership rate - a lot of > people seem to be forgetting that. That's the only way that a lot of > applications will be able to remain in consideration for underserved > status, given how difficult it is in most areas to find anywhere > with less than 50% availability. > > > InLine> > vickie edwards, MPA | Grant Specialist > InLine> Solutions Through Technology > 600 Lakeshore Pkwy > Birmingham AL, 35209 > 205-278-8106 [p] > 205-941-1934[f] > vedwa...@inline.com > www.InLine.com > All Quotes from InLine are only valid for 30 days. This message and > any attached files may contain confidential information and are > intended solely for the message recipient. If you are not the > message recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, > distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of > this information is strictly prohibited. E-mail transmission cannot > be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be > intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, > or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability > for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which > arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is > required please request a hard-copy version. > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:56 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you* > have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to > justify it at the census block level. > > And if the area is as the poster describes, it's impossible to > challenge. He might have a very good reason why he can't reach even > 50% of the residents (that's what he said, I'll remind you) in his > area. But, it is irrelevant. They don't care *why* you can't reach the > other households...they just care that you don't. > > If this is a big application then it's going to cover far more than > his territory anyway, and you will NOT be able to have a section cut > out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do > cover it. They went out of their way to encourage "gerrymandering" in > the applications, which included the ability to include covered > territory as long as the total number of already covered households > was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to us). > > Chuck > > On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: > >> Yes, It definateately IS appropriate to attempt to BLOCK bad >> applications. >> The NTIA/RUS has no way to know if an applcation is innapproriate or >> in >> conflict of interest if we dont tell them. >> Quite honestly, the applicant may not know it is in conflict of >> interest >> without telling them. >> >> I specifically hate applacation that just selected 1 HUGE contiguous >> area. >> The reason is, they did't take the time that they should ahve to >> look down >> to the census block level to determine what blocks really are and >> aren't >> underserved areas. If anything it is the LARGE AREA applicants that >> are >> attempting to scam the system, to get grant money for served areas, >> with the >> hope no one will protest it. >> >> There is nothing wrong with competition. But this grant is NOT >> creating >> competition. It is giving the applicant a SUPER HUGE advantage over >> any >> other pre-existing provider in the area, and that is anti- >> American,and >> anti-fair-competition in my mind. >> >> To give a new provider a free network, and the existing provider no >> funds, >> is a disaster plan to put pre-existing businesses out of business, >> and to >> risk throwing away the much investment made by those original >> entreprenures. >> >&g
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
That link doesn't work for me. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Matt Larsen - Lists" Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:41 PM To: "WISPA General List" ; "motorola Canopy User Group" Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > Here is a link to maps of the projects: > > http://bit.ly/3p2be3 > > I count four cell phone companies in my areas looking for stimulus money > to expand their existing phone networks. What a crock! > > Also, a big chunk of the country is covered by the Satellite providers > wanting money to upgrade their satellite network. Since when does that > actually improve broadband availability? I guess it is sort of like > broadband-lite. > > Ack! > > Matt Larsen > vistabeam.com > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
When I search these websites for my county (Snohomish County, WA), I come up with SEVERAL listings for CTURN Corporation out of Oregon <http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/SearchResult_Company.aspx?CompanyId=1f78822b-3a4c-43a7-af4a-461b44b65a51>. They appear to have over 130 applications showing "approved" back in 2006. Several of these apps are in areas that I service and have intimate knowledge of. I have not seen ANYTHING toward broadband or this company. So what gives? Who do I call? CTURN has since been bought by <http://www.icoacorp.com/>. Is this a company that was funded by RUS and then RUS got nothing out of it or am I mistaken? ryan On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Chuck Bartosch wrote: > I'm including the 40% in the gerrymandering statement. In another > response I pointed out that you have to "win" on every argument the > applicant makes, not just on the arguments you want to make. > > Chuck > > On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:16 PM, Vickie Edwards wrote: > >> " They went out of their way to encourage "gerrymandering" in >> the applications, which included the ability to include covered >> territory as long as the total number of already covered households >> was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to >> us)." >> >> Or that there's a less than 40% subscribership rate - a lot of >> people seem to be forgetting that. That's the only way that a lot of >> applications will be able to remain in consideration for underserved >> status, given how difficult it is in most areas to find anywhere >> with less than 50% availability. >> >> >> InLine> >> vickie edwards, MPA | Grant Specialist >> InLine> Solutions Through Technology >> 600 Lakeshore Pkwy >> Birmingham AL, 35209 >> 205-278-8106 [p] >> 205-941-1934[f] >> vedwa...@inline.com >> www.InLine.com >> All Quotes from InLine are only valid for 30 days. This message and >> any attached files may contain confidential information and are >> intended solely for the message recipient. If you are not the >> message recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, >> distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of >> this information is strictly prohibited. E-mail transmission cannot >> be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be >> intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, >> or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability >> for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which >> arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is >> required please request a hard-copy version. >> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch >> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:56 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects >> >> The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you* >> have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to >> justify it at the census block level. >> >> And if the area is as the poster describes, it's impossible to >> challenge. He might have a very good reason why he can't reach even >> 50% of the residents (that's what he said, I'll remind you) in his >> area. But, it is irrelevant. They don't care *why* you can't reach the >> other households...they just care that you don't. >> >> If this is a big application then it's going to cover far more than >> his territory anyway, and you will NOT be able to have a section cut >> out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do >> cover it. They went out of their way to encourage "gerrymandering" in >> the applications, which included the ability to include covered >> territory as long as the total number of already covered households >> was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to us). >> >> Chuck >> >> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >> >>> Yes, It definateately IS appropriate to attempt to BLOCK bad >>> applications. >>> The NTIA/RUS has no way to know if an applcation is innapproriate or >>> in >>> conflict of interest if we dont tell them. >>> Quite honestly, the applicant may not know it is in conflict of >>> interest >>> without telling them. >>> >>> I specifically hate applacation that just selected 1 HUGE contiguous >>> area. >>> Th
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
ons with the grant reviewers OR the agency over >> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage >> area. > > I guess that will be a very relevent document, and something I need > to read, > as well as anyone else intending to protest an application. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > - Original Message - > From: "Chuck Bartosch" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:06 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > >> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you >> don't >> think it's a good plan. >> >> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that >> explicitly >> disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over >> about >> individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over >> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage >> area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you >> can find it on line. >> >> The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are >> instructed >> to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. >> >> Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms >> about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any >> form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. >> >> It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out >> what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach >> you're >> suggesting as I understood the circular. >> >> Chuck >> >> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >> >>> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. >>> The >>> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer >>> money >>> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and >>> adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, >>> but didn;t >>> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get >>> approved >>> if its less good? >>> And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA >>> what we >>> think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the >>> public that >>> has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. >>> >>> I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that >>> targeted >>> truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider >>> infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. >>> For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that >>> would >>> directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I >>> plan to >>> protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- >>> existing >>> providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them >>> into the >>> proposal to gain their support. If they didn't do that, they >>> deserve to >>> have their applications protested, in my opinion. >>> >>> As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on >>> applying >>> for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and >>> advising that >>> the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to >>> projects >>> without alledged conflict of interests first, and at minimum deny >>> the >>> conflcit of interest applicants until round2, where they can be mroe >>> fairly >>> considered, and so there is more time to gain fact on what is and >>> isn't >>> underserved areas, and consider all potential applicants for the >>> areas. >>> >>> Tom DeReggi >>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "L. Aaron Kaplan" >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:19 AM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Seriously? You would categorize government-subsidized broadband >>>>> expansion >>>>> as capitalistic competition? >>>> >
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Chuck Bartosch Reply-To: WISPA General List Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 >There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't >think it's a good plan. > >In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly >disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about >individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over >anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage >area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you >can find it on line. > >The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed >to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. > >Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms >about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any >form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. > >It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out >what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach you're >suggesting as I understood the circular. > >Chuck > >On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: > >> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. >> The >> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer >> money >> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and >> adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, >> but didn;t >> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get >> approved >> if its less good? >> And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA >> what we >> think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the >> public that >> has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. >> >> I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that >> targeted >> truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider >> infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. >> For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that >> would >> directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I >> plan to >> protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- >> existing >> providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them >> into the >> proposal to gain their support. If they didn't do that, they >> deserve to >> have their applications protested, in my opinion. >> >> As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on >> applying >> for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and >> advising that >> the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to >> projects >> without alledged conflict of interests first, and at minimum deny the >> conflcit of interest applicants until round2, where they can be mroe >> fairly >> considered, and so there is more time to gain fact on what is and >> isn't >> underserved areas, and consider all potential applicants for the >> areas. >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "L. Aaron Kaplan" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:19 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects >> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> Seriously? You would categorize government-subsidized broadband >>>> expansion >>>> as capitalistic competition? >>> >>> >>> I should have said - receiving some funds and thus increasing the >>> speed of biz expansion. >>> I see nothing un-capitalistic per se about receiving funds in order >>> to >>> revive the economy. >>> >>> The real question however is, will *only* the big boys get something >>> thus driving the smaller boys out of biz! >>> (maybe that is the case in the original posting and I just did not >>> know it). >>> >>> >>> *If* the stimulus package would be needed in the first place however, >>> is of course a completely different topic. >>> >>> But seems like I just put
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
reasoned explanation as to why providing coverage for an entire census block is infeasible. Applicants may be permitted to serve less than an entire census block under certain conditions. For example, an applicant might request to be relieved of this requirement if the census block exceeds 100 square miles or more or is larger than the applicant's authorized operating territory, e.g., it splits a rural incumbent local exchange carrier's (ILEC's) study area or exceeds the boundaries of a wireless carrier's licensed territory. > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Scottie Arnett > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:39 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open > their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? > > Scottie > > -- Original Message -- > From: Chuck Bartosch > Reply-To: WISPA General List > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 > > >There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't > >think it's a good plan. > > > >In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly > >disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about > >individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over > >anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage > >area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you > >can find it on line. > > > >The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed > >to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. > > > >Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms > >about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any > >form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. > > > >It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out > >what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach you're > >suggesting as I understood the circular. > > > >Chuck > > > >On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: > > > >> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. > >> The > >> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer > >> money > >> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and > >> adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, > >> but didn;t > >> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get > >> approved > >> if its less good? > >> And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA > >> what we > >> think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the > >> public that > >> has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. > >> > >> I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that > >> targeted > >> truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider > >> infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. > >> For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that > >> would > >> directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I > >> plan to > >> protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- > >> existing > >> providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them > >> into the > >> proposal to gain their support. If they didn't do that, they > >> deserve to > >> have their applications protested, in my opinion. > >> > >> As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on > >> applying > >> for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and > >> advising that > >> the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to > >> projects > >> without alledged conflict of interests first, and at minimum deny > the > >> conflcit of interest applicants until round2, where they can be mroe > >> fairly > >> considered, and so there is more time to gain fact on what is and > >> isn't > >> underserved areas, and consider all potential applicants for the > >> areas. > >> > >> Tom DeReggi > >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > >> > >> &
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Yes, but it only applies to the infrastructure paid for by grant proceeds. And its up to the applicant to define how and at what price they share wholesale access to their network. Strategically... I had a few thoughts on that, that I missed while working on an app. We generally use all inclusive flat rate pricing that bundles last mile, middle mile, and trasit. That could work to one's disadvantage in a grant app. It might be better to break appart the components, so that the non-discrimination clauses apply only to the portion of the network paid for the grant and not the other components. For example, you might give fixed wholesale access to the middle mile if a middle mile grant, but still charge what you will for Transit or Last mile. Or vice versa, if doing a lat mile grant, hav fixed wholesale rates for last mile (which must include Internet access) but then charge what you want for middle mile only services that were not covered by the grant. My point here is... an ISP is not being forced to comply to the open network standard, they are agreeing to have the network paid for by the grant to be subject to open network policies. So I anticipate that there could be all kinds of games played by the owner of teh grant network, to control how competitive other parties might be trying to use the network on a wholesale network. So there are two concerns here... One is, will you ahve to share your network, and Two, how do you get access to someone elses. To know what option there are to access someone else's network, one must read the terms they submit in their application. But at minimum it must be in compliance with the pre-existing non-dscrimination open access rules referenced to by the NOFA Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Scottie Arnett" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open their > network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? > > Scottie > > -- Original Message -- > From: Chuck Bartosch > Reply-To: WISPA General List > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 > >>There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't >>think it's a good plan. >> >>In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly >>disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about >>individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over >>anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage >>area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you >>can find it on line. >> >>The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed >>to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. >> >>Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms >>about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any >>form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. >> >>It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out >>what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach you're >>suggesting as I understood the circular. >> >>Chuck >> >>On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >> >>> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. >>> The >>> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer >>> money >>> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and >>> adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, >>> but didn;t >>> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get >>> approved >>> if its less good? >>> And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA >>> what we >>> think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the >>> public that >>> has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. >>> >>> I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that >>> targeted >>> truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider >>> infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. >>> For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that >>> would >>> directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I >>> plan to >>> protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- >>> existing >>> provi
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: > Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open > their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? > > Scottie > > -- Original Message -- > From: Chuck Bartosch > Reply-To: WISPA General List > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 > >> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you >> don't >> think it's a good plan. >> >> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that >> explicitly >> disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over >> about >> individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over >> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage >> area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you >> can find it on line. >> >> The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are >> instructed >> to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. >> >> Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms >> about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any >> form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. >> >> It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out >> what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach >> you're >> suggesting as I understood the circular. >> >> Chuck >> >> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >> >>> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. >>> The >>> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer >>> money >>> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and >>> adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, >>> but didn;t >>> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get >>> approved >>> if its less good? >>> And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA >>> what we >>> think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the >>> public that >>> has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. >>> >>> I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that >>> targeted >>> truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider >>> infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. >>> For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that >>> would >>> directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I >>> plan to >>> protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- >>> existing >>> providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them >>> into the >>> proposal to gain their support. If they didn't do that, they >>> deserve to >>> have their applications protested, in my opinion. >>> >>> As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on >>> applying >>> for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and >>> advising that >>> the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to >>> projects >>> without alledged conflict of interests first, and at minimum deny >>> the >>> conflcit of interest applicants until round2, where they can be mroe >>> fairly >>> considered, and so there is more time to gain fact on what is and >>> isn't >>> underserved areas, and consider all potential applicants for the >>> areas. >>&g
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband is for their system. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: > Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open > their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? > > Scottie > > -- Original Message -- > From: Chuck Bartosch > Reply-To: WISPA General List > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 > >> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you >> don't >> think it's a good plan. >> >> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that >> explicitly >> disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over >> about >> individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over >> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage >> area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you >> can find it on line. >> >> The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are >> instructed >> to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. >> >> Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms >> about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any >> form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. >> >> It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out >> what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach >> you're >> suggesting as I understood the circular. >> >> Chuck >> >> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >> >>> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. >>> The >>> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer >>> money >>> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and >>> adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, >>> but didn;t >>> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get >>> approved >>> if its less good? >>> And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA >>> what we >>> think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the >>> public that >>> has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. >>> >>> I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that >>> targeted >>> truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider >>> infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. >>> For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that >>> would >>> directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I >>> plan to >>> protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- >>> existing >>> providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them >>> into the >>> proposal to gain their support. If they didn't do that, they >>> deserve to >>> have their applications protested, in my opinion. >>> >>> As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on >>> applying >>> for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and >>> advising
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going to have tons of excess capacity. Chuck On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: > In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million > bucks to > provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband > to the > masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper > broadband > is for their system. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM > To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't > really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want > you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. > > For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in > for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well > tough. > > If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes > to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale > access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just > seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their > usual games with this stuff and block the intent. > > So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how > they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the > provider is willing to and interested in doing so. > > Chuck > > > On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: > >> Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open >> their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? >> >> Scottie >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: Chuck Bartosch >> Reply-To: WISPA General List >> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 >> >>> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you >>> don't >>> think it's a good plan. >>> >>> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that >>> explicitly >>> disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over >>> about >>> individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over >>> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage >>> area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you >>> can find it on line. >>> >>> The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are >>> instructed >>> to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. >>> >>> Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general >>> terms >>> about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any >>> form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. >>> >>> It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out >>> what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach >>> you're >>> suggesting as I understood the circular. >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >>> >>>> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. >>>> The >>>> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer >>>> money >>>> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and >>>> adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, >>>> but didn;t >>>> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get >>>> approved >>>> if its less good? >>>> And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA >>>> what we >>>> think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the >>>> public that >>>> has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. >>>> >>>> I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that >>>> targeted >>>> truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider >>>> infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. >>>> For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that >>>> would >>>>
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in. A system of towers, is what they propose. No fiber. A million bucks worth of towers and radios? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going to have tons of excess capacity. Chuck On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: > In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million > bucks to > provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband > to the > masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper > broadband > is for their system. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM > To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't > really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want > you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. > > For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in > for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well > tough. > > If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes > to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale > access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just > seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their > usual games with this stuff and block the intent. > > So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how > they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the > provider is willing to and interested in doing so. > > Chuck > > > On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: > >> Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open >> their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? >> >> Scottie >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: Chuck Bartosch >> Reply-To: WISPA General List >> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 >> >>> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you >>> don't >>> think it's a good plan. >>> >>> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that >>> explicitly >>> disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over >>> about >>> individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over >>> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage >>> area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you >>> can find it on line. >>> >>> The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are >>> instructed >>> to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. >>> >>> Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general >>> terms >>> about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any >>> form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. >>> >>> It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out >>> what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach >>> you're >>> suggesting as I understood the circular. >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >>> >>>> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. >>>> The >>>> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer >>>> money >>>> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and >>>> adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, >>>> but didn;t >>>> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get >>>> approved >>>> if its less good? >>>> And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA >>>> what we >>>> think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the >>>> public that >>>> has to pay the taxes
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
I have been out of the office for several days and no access to email. I am looking at the USDA map and do not see the broadband grant applications. Can someone give me a link? Thanks, Victoria -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:57 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in. A system of towers, is what they propose. No fiber. A million bucks worth of towers and radios? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going to have tons of excess capacity. Chuck On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: > In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million > bucks to > provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband > to the > masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper > broadband > is for their system. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM > To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't > really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want > you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. > > For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in > for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well > tough. > > If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes > to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale > access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just > seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their > usual games with this stuff and block the intent. > > So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how > they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the > provider is willing to and interested in doing so. > > Chuck > > > On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: > >> Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open >> their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? >> >> Scottie >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: Chuck Bartosch >> Reply-To: WISPA General List >> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 >> >>> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you >>> don't >>> think it's a good plan. >>> >>> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that >>> explicitly >>> disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over >>> about >>> individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over >>> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage >>> area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you >>> can find it on line. >>> >>> The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are >>> instructed >>> to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. >>> >>> Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general >>> terms >>> about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any >>> form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. >>> >>> It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out >>> what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach >>> you're >>> suggesting as I understood the circular. >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >>> >>>> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. >>>> The >>>> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer >>>> money >>>> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and >>>> adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think y
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
I dont have much confident in anyone gaining access to someone else's network inexpensively, unless that network is owned by a small local company, short in front end sales resources themselves, that truly benefits from having other partners to drive demand. Example... Yesterday I tried to buy capacity (7 mbps) Wholesale access to TowerStream's broadband network for 1 day, and they quoted me $11,000 and refused to budge. And they had a live tower/NOC 500 yards away. The wholesale price for 1 year, would have been just as bad. Obviously, we chose another option. To them, its all about what the market will bear, and has absolutely nothing to do with their cost. Many grant winners will have the same mentality, and the fact that they got their grant for free, will have no effect on their pricing sctructure, or pricing structure for wholesale, or desire to even havea wholesale offering. The truth is, I just dont see Public traded or VC funded companies sharing their grant funded networks ethically, regardless of the open access requirments. And a lot of the grant winners are likely going to be the one with financial and investment backing. Its different for small WISPs. Small WISPs partner with other WISPs all the time, because there is a mutual benefit for doing so. I sure hope some small WISPs win some grants, and maybe the wholesale requirements of the program might actually make it to a beneficial reality. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Robert West" To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in. A system > of towers, is what they propose. No fiber. A million bucks worth of > towers > and radios? > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper > bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going > to have tons of excess capacity. > > Chuck > > On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: > >> In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million >> bucks to >> provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband >> to the >> masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper >> broadband >> is for their system. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >> Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch >> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM >> To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects >> >> Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't >> really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want >> you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. >> >> For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in >> for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well >> tough. >> >> If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes >> to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale >> access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just >> seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their >> usual games with this stuff and block the intent. >> >> So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how >> they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the >> provider is willing to and interested in doing so. >> >> Chuck >> >> >> On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: >> >>> Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open >>> their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? >>> >>> Scottie >>> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> From: Chuck Bartosch >>> Reply-To: WISPA General List >>> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 >>> >>>> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you >>>> don't >>>> think it's a good plan. >>>> >>>> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I b
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
I am just not getting this. We have two competitors that state that they can provide 14 Mbps wireless broadband to a very heavily tree canopied area. The best we could do is with 900 MHz and that would only provide 3.3 Mbps, if luck. How can these folks get away with such amazing statements? Victoria -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects I dont have much confident in anyone gaining access to someone else's network inexpensively, unless that network is owned by a small local company, short in front end sales resources themselves, that truly benefits from having other partners to drive demand. Example... Yesterday I tried to buy capacity (7 mbps) Wholesale access to TowerStream's broadband network for 1 day, and they quoted me $11,000 and refused to budge. And they had a live tower/NOC 500 yards away. The wholesale price for 1 year, would have been just as bad. Obviously, we chose another option. To them, its all about what the market will bear, and has absolutely nothing to do with their cost. Many grant winners will have the same mentality, and the fact that they got their grant for free, will have no effect on their pricing sctructure, or pricing structure for wholesale, or desire to even havea wholesale offering. The truth is, I just dont see Public traded or VC funded companies sharing their grant funded networks ethically, regardless of the open access requirments. And a lot of the grant winners are likely going to be the one with financial and investment backing. Its different for small WISPs. Small WISPs partner with other WISPs all the time, because there is a mutual benefit for doing so. I sure hope some small WISPs win some grants, and maybe the wholesale requirements of the program might actually make it to a beneficial reality. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Robert West" To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in. A system > of towers, is what they propose. No fiber. A million bucks worth of > towers > and radios? > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper > bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going > to have tons of excess capacity. > > Chuck > > On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: > >> In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million >> bucks to >> provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband >> to the >> masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper >> broadband >> is for their system. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >> Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch >> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM >> To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects >> >> Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't >> really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want >> you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. >> >> For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in >> for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well >> tough. >> >> If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes >> to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale >> access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just >> seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their >> usual games with this stuff and block the intent. >> >> So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how >> they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the >> provider is willing to and interested in doing so. >> >> Chuck >> >> >> On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: >> >>> Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open >>> their ne
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Statements need validity. Maybe they're full of it? On 9/17/09, St. Louis Broadband wrote: > I am just not getting this. We have two competitors that state that they > can provide 14 Mbps wireless broadband to a very heavily tree canopied area. > The best we could do is with 900 MHz and that would only provide 3.3 Mbps, > if luck. > > How can these folks get away with such amazing statements? > > Victoria > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:24 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > I dont have much confident in anyone gaining access to someone else's > network inexpensively, unless that network is owned by a small local > company, short in front end sales resources themselves, that truly benefits > from having other partners to drive demand. > > Example... Yesterday I tried to buy capacity (7 mbps) Wholesale access to > TowerStream's broadband network for 1 day, and they quoted me $11,000 and > refused to budge. > And they had a live tower/NOC 500 yards away. The wholesale price for 1 > year, would have been just as bad. Obviously, we chose another option. To > them, its all about what the market will bear, and has absolutely nothing to > > do with their cost. Many grant winners will have the same mentality, and > the fact that they got their grant for free, will have no effect on their > pricing sctructure, or pricing structure for wholesale, or desire to even > havea wholesale offering. > > The truth is, I just dont see Public traded or VC funded companies sharing > their grant funded networks ethically, regardless of the open access > requirments. > And a lot of the grant winners are likely going to be the one with financial > > and investment backing. > > Its different for small WISPs. Small WISPs partner with other WISPs all the > time, because there is a mutual benefit for doing so. > I sure hope some small WISPs win some grants, and maybe the wholesale > requirements of the program might actually make it to a beneficial reality. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > - Original Message - > From: "Robert West" > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:56 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > >> Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in. A system >> of towers, is what they propose. No fiber. A million bucks worth of >> towers >> and radios? >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch >> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects >> >> Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper >> bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going >> to have tons of excess capacity. >> >> Chuck >> >> On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: >> >>> In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million >>> bucks to >>> provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband >>> to the >>> masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper >>> broadband >>> is for their system. >>> >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM >>> To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects >>> >>> Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't >>> really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want >>> you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. >>> >>> For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in >>> for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well >>> tough. >>> >>> If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes >>> to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale >>> access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just >>> seems to me to be 100 ways to
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
They either "lie" or they legitimately "dont know what they are doing". What do you think will happen, when they promise more than can be really delivered, and they get grant money? Will the feds take themoney back, or shutdown the WISP, and turn off all teh subs? No. People wont care that the grant winner lied, because its better to have 3mbps then nothing, when the truth is proven. Thats why I hate these competitive grants based on claims made by the applicants. Again, I jsut hope decission makers are smart enough to see the truth, and grant to those with the most proven experience. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "St. Louis Broadband" To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects >I am just not getting this. We have two competitors that state that they > can provide 14 Mbps wireless broadband to a very heavily tree canopied > area. > The best we could do is with 900 MHz and that would only provide 3.3 Mbps, > if luck. > > How can these folks get away with such amazing statements? > > Victoria > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:24 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > I dont have much confident in anyone gaining access to someone else's > network inexpensively, unless that network is owned by a small local > company, short in front end sales resources themselves, that truly > benefits > from having other partners to drive demand. > > Example... Yesterday I tried to buy capacity (7 mbps) Wholesale access to > TowerStream's broadband network for 1 day, and they quoted me $11,000 and > refused to budge. > And they had a live tower/NOC 500 yards away. The wholesale price for 1 > year, would have been just as bad. Obviously, we chose another option. To > them, its all about what the market will bear, and has absolutely nothing > to > > do with their cost. Many grant winners will have the same mentality, and > the fact that they got their grant for free, will have no effect on their > pricing sctructure, or pricing structure for wholesale, or desire to even > havea wholesale offering. > > The truth is, I just dont see Public traded or VC funded companies sharing > their grant funded networks ethically, regardless of the open access > requirments. > And a lot of the grant winners are likely going to be the one with > financial > > and investment backing. > > Its different for small WISPs. Small WISPs partner with other WISPs all > the > time, because there is a mutual benefit for doing so. > I sure hope some small WISPs win some grants, and maybe the wholesale > requirements of the program might actually make it to a beneficial > reality. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > - Original Message - > From: "Robert West" > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:56 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > >> Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in. A >> system >> of towers, is what they propose. No fiber. A million bucks worth of >> towers >> and radios? >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch >> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects >> >> Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper >> bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going >> to have tons of excess capacity. >> >> Chuck >> >> On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: >> >>> In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million >>> bucks to >>> provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband >>> to the >>> masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper >>> broadband >>> is for their system. >>> >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM >>> To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WIS
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Tom DeReggi wrote: > Again, I jsut hope decission makers are smart enough to see the truth, and > grant to those with the most proven experience. The best way to help ensure this would have been to volunteer to review the grants (unless, of course, you're interested in pursuing a grant yourself). I really hope I'm not the only WISP employee who did so. I think it's too late to volunteer and still review the first round of grant applications, but there will be further rounds over the next several months. As there are more than a few applications asking for money to build out wireless, a few extra nonsense-detectors wouldn't hurt. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
I could not volunteer to review apps, because I am involved as a grant applicant, and it would have compromised my eligibility. It is disappointing that my app did not make submission in round1, but it will be there in round2. I think it is awesome that you offered your time to contribute to the review process! I hope more follow your lead. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "David E. Smith" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > Tom DeReggi wrote: > >> Again, I jsut hope decission makers are smart enough to see the truth, >> and >> grant to those with the most proven experience. > > The best way to help ensure this would have been to volunteer to review > the grants (unless, of course, you're interested in pursuing a grant > yourself). I really hope I'm not the only WISP employee who did so. > > I think it's too late to volunteer and still review the first round of > grant applications, but there will be further rounds over the next > several months. As there are more than a few applications asking for > money to build out wireless, a few extra nonsense-detectors wouldn't hurt. > > David Smith > MVN.net > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Tom, Did you not complete your application? Ours has been submitted from the NTIA to the State. Victoria -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects I could not volunteer to review apps, because I am involved as a grant applicant, and it would have compromised my eligibility. It is disappointing that my app did not make submission in round1, but it will be there in round2. I think it is awesome that you offered your time to contribute to the review process! I hope more follow your lead. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "David E. Smith" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > Tom DeReggi wrote: > >> Again, I jsut hope decission makers are smart enough to see the truth, >> and >> grant to those with the most proven experience. > > The best way to help ensure this would have been to volunteer to review > the grants (unless, of course, you're interested in pursuing a grant > yourself). I really hope I'm not the only WISP employee who did so. > > I think it's too late to volunteer and still review the first round of > grant applications, but there will be further rounds over the next > several months. As there are more than a few applications asking for > money to build out wireless, a few extra nonsense-detectors wouldn't hurt. > > David Smith > MVN.net > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
It's worth noting that the rules are a little different for middle mile applicants than last mile applicants e.g., for the middle mile -- one has to pre-set their wholesale bandwidth rates and stay in accordance with the NOFA's non-discrimination rules per the application Keep in mind, if someone with a middle mile project gets an application saying that they're going to sell bandwidth for $50 / meg in your rural market with a zero setup fee -- adhering to that pricing plan / etc becomes a REQUIREMENT of their funding agreement -- so, if you go to them and they then quote you $100 / meg, they are in violation of their agreement with the government Keep in mind, when this happens, it now becomes fraud, and that's considered a felony (in addition, the government has the right to de-obligate the entire grant, and what that means is that they can demand 100% of the money back) Also, note that in some cases, the government is a little different than your average debtor, in some cases (e.g., tax evasion), not paying the government can put you in jail That sad (or maybe not depending on your perspective?) thing is that there are a lot of, IMO "jokers" applying for broadband stimulus funds who move fast and loose and think that they can "pull a fast one" over the government -- add in the fact that NTIA/RUS have tens of millions of budgeted for auditing, I would predict that many of them will end up in jail as a result of stimulus -Charles -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: > Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open > their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? > > Scottie > > -- Original Message -- > From: Chuck Bartosch > Reply-To: WISPA General List > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 > >> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you >> don't >> think it's a good plan. >> >> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that >> explicitly >> disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over >> about >> individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over >> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage >> area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you >> can find it on line. >> >> The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are >> instructed >> to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. >> >> Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms >> about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any >> form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. >> >> It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out >> what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach >> you're >> suggesting as I understood the circular. >> >> Chuck >> >> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >> >>> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. >>> The >>> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer >>> money >>> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and >>> adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, >>> but didn;t >>> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get >>> approved >>> if its less good? >>> And if on
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
>In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to >provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the >masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband >is for their system. If it's a middle mile application, they would be in violation of their funding contract if they bandwidth wasn't available to you for the same price that they're buying it for -- IMO, you would win either way 1. You get access to cheap bandwidth for the same price as them 2. They deny you access, you report them to the government, they get audited, shut down, thrown in jail, you have one less competitor, and you get to buy their system for pennies on the dollar =) -Charles -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: > Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open > their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? > > Scottie > > -- Original Message -- > From: Chuck Bartosch > Reply-To: WISPA General List > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 > >> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you >> don't >> think it's a good plan. >> >> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that >> explicitly >> disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over >> about >> individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over >> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage >> area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you >> can find it on line. >> >> The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are >> instructed >> to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. >> >> Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms >> about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any >> form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. >> >> It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out >> what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach >> you're >> suggesting as I understood the circular. >> >> Chuck >> >> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >> >>> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. >>> The >>> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer >>> money >>> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and >>> adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, >>> but didn;t >>> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get >>> approved >>> if its less good? >>> And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA >>> what we >>> think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the >>> public that >>> has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. >>> >>> I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that >>> targeted >>> truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider >>> infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. >>> For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that >>> would >>> directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I >>> plan to >>> protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Well...operators in 2.5 GHz can put out up to 2 kW (E.g., 2000 Watts) EIRP at the tower site, have a noise floor of -100 dBm which allows them to take full advantage of more advanced technology, and in some cases, have access to almost 200 MHz of spectrum Compare that to 900 MHz, where you're limited to 4W of EIRP, have a -80 dbm noise floor, and a total of 24 MHz of spectrum that's being shared with 20 other users -Charles -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of St. Louis Broadband Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:06 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects I am just not getting this. We have two competitors that state that they can provide 14 Mbps wireless broadband to a very heavily tree canopied area. The best we could do is with 900 MHz and that would only provide 3.3 Mbps, if luck. How can these folks get away with such amazing statements? Victoria -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects I dont have much confident in anyone gaining access to someone else's network inexpensively, unless that network is owned by a small local company, short in front end sales resources themselves, that truly benefits from having other partners to drive demand. Example... Yesterday I tried to buy capacity (7 mbps) Wholesale access to TowerStream's broadband network for 1 day, and they quoted me $11,000 and refused to budge. And they had a live tower/NOC 500 yards away. The wholesale price for 1 year, would have been just as bad. Obviously, we chose another option. To them, its all about what the market will bear, and has absolutely nothing to do with their cost. Many grant winners will have the same mentality, and the fact that they got their grant for free, will have no effect on their pricing sctructure, or pricing structure for wholesale, or desire to even havea wholesale offering. The truth is, I just dont see Public traded or VC funded companies sharing their grant funded networks ethically, regardless of the open access requirments. And a lot of the grant winners are likely going to be the one with financial and investment backing. Its different for small WISPs. Small WISPs partner with other WISPs all the time, because there is a mutual benefit for doing so. I sure hope some small WISPs win some grants, and maybe the wholesale requirements of the program might actually make it to a beneficial reality. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Robert West" To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in. A system > of towers, is what they propose. No fiber. A million bucks worth of > towers > and radios? > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper > bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going > to have tons of excess capacity. > > Chuck > > On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: > >> In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million >> bucks to >> provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband >> to the >> masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper >> broadband >> is for their system. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >> Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch >> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM >> To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects >> >> Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't >> really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want >> you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. >> >> For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in >> for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well >> tough. >> >> If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes >> to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to gi
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
>They either "lie" or they legitimately "dont know what they are doing". Or maybe you don't know what is possible with licensed spectrum =) For example, in the 2.5 GHz band, there are over 30 6 MHz channels available (e.g., almost 200 MHz of spectrum) -- we have one customer that owns/leases almost every channel in their respective market (I believe they're at 28 or so), and they have the ability to do some really cool stuff -Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Hi David, While I applaud your efforts in being involved with the broadband stimulus, it is my understanding that MVN.net is/was applying for stimulus funds for Round 1 -- maybe I'm missing something, but I can't figure out how you'd be able to over-come the conflict of interest clauses? -Charles -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Tom DeReggi wrote: > Again, I jsut hope decission makers are smart enough to see the truth, and > grant to those with the most proven experience. The best way to help ensure this would have been to volunteer to review the grants (unless, of course, you're interested in pursuing a grant yourself). I really hope I'm not the only WISP employee who did so. I think it's too late to volunteer and still review the first round of grant applications, but there will be further rounds over the next several months. As there are more than a few applications asking for money to build out wireless, a few extra nonsense-detectors wouldn't hurt. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Okay, so for the grant they MUST provide the bandwidth for the same price they are paying for it??? But are they then able to throw a bunch of BS fees on top of it? If they have to provide at the same price, then it's not bad but I suspect it will be more cumbersome. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects >In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to >provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the >masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband >is for their system. If it's a middle mile application, they would be in violation of their funding contract if they bandwidth wasn't available to you for the same price that they're buying it for -- IMO, you would win either way 1. You get access to cheap bandwidth for the same price as them 2. They deny you access, you report them to the government, they get audited, shut down, thrown in jail, you have one less competitor, and you get to buy their system for pennies on the dollar =) -Charles -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: > Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open > their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? > > Scottie > > -- Original Message -- > From: Chuck Bartosch > Reply-To: WISPA General List > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 > >> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you >> don't >> think it's a good plan. >> >> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that >> explicitly >> disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over >> about >> individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over >> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage >> area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you >> can find it on line. >> >> The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are >> instructed >> to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. >> >> Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms >> about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any >> form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. >> >> It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out >> what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach >> you're >> suggesting as I understood the circular. >> >> Chuck >> >> On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: >> >>> Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. >>> The >>> NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer >>> money >>> optimally wisely and benefit the public, and >>> adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, >>> but didn;t >>> have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get >>> approved >>> if its less good? >>> And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA >>> what we >>> think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the >>> public that >>> has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
It depends on what you're buying from them, but the basic answer is "no they do not have to sell at their cost". If you're buying transit, you strike your own deal with the bandwidth supplier. In that sense you're just paying "cost" on the bandwidth. But, they have to determine the transit terms for the application. That will include a profit number for them. But, they have to live with the proposal they make. They can also sell bandwidth, at a predesigned schedule. They make a profit there too, but they have to live with their proposed schedule. That or I missed something big in the NOFA. Chuck Sent from my iPhone On Sep 19, 2009, at 10:08 AM, "Robert West" wrote: > Okay, so for the grant they MUST provide the bandwidth for the same > price > they are paying for it??? But are they then able to throw a bunch > of BS > fees on top of it? If they have to provide at the same price, then > it's not > bad but I suspect it will be more cumbersome. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > Behalf Of Charles Wu > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:33 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > >> In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million >> bucks to >> provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband >> to the >> masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper >> broadband >> is for their system. > > If it's a middle mile application, they would be in violation of their > funding contract if they bandwidth wasn't available to you for the > same > price that they're buying it for -- IMO, you would win either way > > 1. You get access to cheap bandwidth for the same price as them > 2. They deny you access, you report them to the government, they get > audited, shut down, thrown in jail, you have one less competitor, > and you > get to buy their system for pennies on the dollar =) > > -Charles > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM > To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't > really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Yes, if its a licensed spectrum proposal, so can control noise floor, and can design to operate at lower receive sensitivities, yes then my comment does not apply. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Charles Wu" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > >They either "lie" or they legitimately "dont know what they are doing". > > Or maybe you don't know what is possible with licensed spectrum =) > > For example, in the 2.5 GHz band, there are over 30 6 MHz channels > available (e.g., almost 200 MHz of spectrum) -- we have one customer that > owns/leases almost every channel in their respective market (I believe > they're at 28 or so), and they have the ability to do some really cool > stuff > > -Charles > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
The issue is that access to bandwidth can only be sold if it is still available and not already sold to someon else. Open Access is very relevent for fiber networks, but for wireless middle mile grants, it will be very easy to simply say the capacity has been sold already. Example: Grant winner builds out 300mbps licensed link. Grant winner agrees to open access. Grant winner sells 300mbps of capacity to Wholesale partner. Grant winner no longer has to sell bandwidth to anyone else, its already all been sold. Wholesale partner reserves it all, and sells it to subs as ordered over time. The grant winner itself is subject to the sharing rules, but the wholesale partner that capacity was sold to, will not necessarilly be subject to sharing. I see so many possibilities for games, to control who does and doesn't get access to the bandwidth. In our unsubmitted application, we legitimately wanted multiple wholesale partners, and pre-defined who we'd sell it to, and pre-allocated capacity for that. I'm not so sure other grant applicants equally embrace the wholesale open access principles. In my mind, I think history should be the ruling factor. If someone preveiously whoesaled, they are likely to continue wanting to wholesale. If they didn;t before, they probably wont want to afterwords, and will likely play games. Just my opinion. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Charles Wu" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > >In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to >>provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the >>masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband >>is for their system. > > If it's a middle mile application, they would be in violation of their > funding contract if they bandwidth wasn't available to you for the same > price that they're buying it for -- IMO, you would win either way > > 1. You get access to cheap bandwidth for the same price as them > 2. They deny you access, you report them to the government, they get > audited, shut down, thrown in jail, you have one less competitor, and you > get to buy their system for pennies on the dollar =) > > -Charles > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM > To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't > really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want > you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. > > For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in > for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well > tough. > > If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes > to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale > access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just > seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their > usual games with this stuff and block the intent. > > So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how > they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the > provider is willing to and interested in doing so. > > Chuck > > > On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: > >> Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open >> their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? >> >> Scottie >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: Chuck Bartosch >> Reply-To: WISPA General List >> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 >> >>> There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you >>> don't >>> think it's a good plan. >>> >>> In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that >>> explicitly >>> disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over >>> about >>> individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over >>> anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage >>> area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you >>> can find it on line. >>> >>> The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are >>&g
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
I absolutely agree. The open access stuff really only has meaning for us on fiber where total capacity is functionally unlimited in a new build out. Chuck On Sep 19, 2009, at 5:58 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: > The issue is that access to bandwidth can only be sold if it is still > available and not already sold to someon else. > > Open Access is very relevent for fiber networks, but for wireless > middle > mile grants, it will be very easy to simply say the capacity has > been sold > already. > > Example: > Grant winner builds out 300mbps licensed link. Grant winner agrees > to open > access. Grant winner sells 300mbps of capacity to Wholesale partner. > Grant winner no longer has to sell bandwidth to anyone else, its > already all > been sold. Wholesale partner reserves it all, and sells it to subs as > ordered over time. The grant winner itself is subject to the sharing > rules, > but the wholesale partner that capacity was sold to, will not > necessarilly > be subject to sharing. I see so many possibilities for games, to > control > who does and doesn't get access to the bandwidth. > > In our unsubmitted application, we legitimately wanted multiple > wholesale > partners, and pre-defined who we'd sell it to, and pre-allocated > capacity > for that. > I'm not so sure other grant applicants equally embrace the wholesale > open > access principles. In my mind, I think history should be the ruling > factor. > If someone preveiously whoesaled, they are likely to continue > wanting to > wholesale. If they didn;t before, they probably wont want to > afterwords, and > will likely play games. Just my opinion. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > - Original Message - > From: "Charles Wu" > +20+28fydibohf23spdlt+29_cn=recipients_cn=char...@converge-tech.com> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:33 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > >>> In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million >>> bucks to >>> provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper >>> broadband to the >>> masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper >>> broadband >>> is for their system. >> >> If it's a middle mile application, they would be in violation of >> their >> funding contract if they bandwidth wasn't available to you for the >> same >> price that they're buying it for -- IMO, you would win either way >> >> 1. You get access to cheap bandwidth for the same price as them >> 2. They deny you access, you report them to the government, they get >> audited, shut down, thrown in jail, you have one less competitor, >> and you >> get to buy their system for pennies on the dollar =) >> >> -Charles >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >> boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch >> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM >> To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects >> >> Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't >> really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want >> you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. >> >> For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in >> for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, >> well >> tough. >> >> If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes >> to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale >> access...just "attachment", whatever the heck that means. There just >> seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play >> their >> usual games with this stuff and block the intent. >> >> So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how >> they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the >> provider is willing to and interested in doing so. >> >> Chuck >> >> >> On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: >> >>> Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open >>> their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? >>> >>> Scottie >>> >>> -- Original Message -- &
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Can anyone else get to the searchable maps? The included link worked for me last Tuesday but not since. Kevin Owen First Step Internet, LLC -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:42 PM To: WISPA General List; motorola Canopy User Group Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Here is a link to maps of the projects: http://bit.ly/3p2be3 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
They took the site down. Must have thought it wasn't go live ready. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Kevin Owen" Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 12:18 PM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > Can anyone else get to the searchable maps? The included link worked for > me last Tuesday but not since. > > Kevin Owen > First Step Internet, LLC > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:42 PM > To: WISPA General List; motorola Canopy User Group > Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > Here is a link to maps of the projects: > > http://bit.ly/3p2be3 > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Charles Wu wrote: > Hi David, > > While I applaud your efforts in being involved with the broadband stimulus, > it is my understanding that MVN.net is/was applying for stimulus funds for > Round 1 -- maybe I'm missing something, but I can't figure out how you'd be > able to over-come the conflict of interest clauses? If we're applying, the boss never told me about it. Also, it is, according to the little PowerPoint presentation they made reviewers watch, permissible to work for a company that's applying for a grant, and also to be a grant reviewer. You can't be personally involved in the grant application, of course, and you're expected to conflict-of-interest yourself out of anything that's even close to your current or proposed coverage area. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. I see a potential conflict of interest issue here. An employee of a large telecom company could be a volunteer who reviews applications received from WISPs and rejects them. As long as the reviewer wasn't "involved" in the large telecom company's application and the WISP applications that they rejected weren't in the same or nearby coverage areas as the large telecom company's applications then all is OK? I think NOT. The BTOP/BIP protections against anti-competitive behavior seem far too weak. Maybe my prejudices are showing here but all along I've felt that the government should have planned to do its own application review work instead of delegating this task to "volunteers". I see this "volunteer" process as being a wide-open door for corruption. jack David E. Smith wrote: Charles Wu wrote: Hi David, While I applaud your efforts in being involved with the broadband stimulus, it is my understanding that MVN.net is/was applying for stimulus funds for Round 1 -- maybe I'm missing something, but I can't figure out how you'd be able to over-come the conflict of interest clauses? If we're applying, the boss never told me about it. Also, it is, according to the little PowerPoint presentation they made reviewers watch, permissible to work for a company that's applying for a grant, and also to be a grant reviewer. You can't be personally involved in the grant application, of course, and you're expected to conflict-of-interest yourself out of anything that's even close to your current or proposed coverage area. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
I wonder how many large companies have paid their employees to be volunteers??? From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. I see a potential conflict of interest issue here. An employee of a large telecom company could be a volunteer who reviews applications received from WISPs and rejects them. As long as the reviewer wasn't "involved" in the large telecom company's application and the WISP applications that they rejected weren't in the same or nearby coverage areas as the large telecom company's applications then all is OK? I think NOT. The BTOP/BIP protections against anti-competitive behavior seem far too weak. Maybe my prejudices are showing here but all along I've felt that the government should have planned to do its own application review work instead of delegating this task to "volunteers". I see this "volunteer" process as being a wide-open door for corruption. jack David E. Smith wrote: Charles Wu wrote: Hi David, While I applaud your efforts in being involved with the broadband stimulus, it is my understanding that MVN.net is/was applying for stimulus funds for Round 1 -- maybe I'm missing something, but I can't figure out how you'd be able to over-come the conflict of interest clauses? If we're applying, the boss never told me about it. Also, it is, according to the little PowerPoint presentation they made reviewers watch, permissible to work for a company that's applying for a grant, and also to be a grant reviewer. You can't be personally involved in the grant application, of course, and you're expected to conflict-of-interest yourself out of anything that's even close to your current or proposed coverage area. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Jack Unger wrote: > Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Let's say I work for AT&T, and I'm volunteering to review BTOP/BIP applications. I'm not allowed to review any application where any part of the coverage area is in any state where AT&T offers service. What possible reason would I have to give applications low scores just because of the technology they use? That aside, the reviewers aren't the final step. A committee of several reviewers reads an application, and each scores it independently, and then the government itself looks over the applications some more. The reviewers are basically a nonsense-filter, and don't have the authority to single-handedly do much of anything. I can't go into too much detail because of confidentiality agreements, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't crush an application even if I wanted to (which means neither can anyone else). David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
David, I'm grateful for your post because it provides new information that I did not know. After reading it, and hearing that you can only review applications in states where your employer does NOT do business and that several reviewers read each application, I feel somewhat more comfortable with the volunteer reviewing process. Thanks for adding to my understanding. jack David E. Smith wrote: Jack Unger wrote: Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Let's say I work for AT&T, and I'm volunteering to review BTOP/BIP applications. I'm not allowed to review any application where any part of the coverage area is in any state where AT&T offers service. What possible reason would I have to give applications low scores just because of the technology they use? That aside, the reviewers aren't the final step. A committee of several reviewers reads an application, and each scores it independently, and then the government itself looks over the applications some more. The reviewers are basically a nonsense-filter, and don't have the authority to single-handedly do much of anything. I can't go into too much detail because of confidentiality agreements, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't crush an application even if I wanted to (which means neither can anyone else). David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Many government grant programs are reviewed by three people and then scores averaged in round 1. A number are tossed out during that round based on their scores. The ones tossed are then looked at by a government reviewer for concurrence with the first three pairs of eyes. Just my past experiences with federal grants. Dave Hulsebus David E. Smith wrote: > Jack Unger wrote: > >> Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. >> > > Let's say I work for AT&T, and I'm volunteering to review BTOP/BIP > applications. I'm not allowed to review any application where any part > of the coverage area is in any state where AT&T offers service. What > possible reason would I have to give applications low scores just > because of the technology they use? > > That aside, the reviewers aren't the final step. A committee of several > reviewers reads an application, and each scores it independently, and > then the government itself looks over the applications some more. The > reviewers are basically a nonsense-filter, and don't have the authority > to single-handedly do much of anything. > > I can't go into too much detail because of confidentiality agreements, > but I'm pretty sure I couldn't crush an application even if I wanted to > (which means neither can anyone else). > > David Smith > MVN.net > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/silvermap/broadbandmap.aspx?program=ARRA Works now. Very few parts of the country don't have any projects covering them. Any way to tell who they are? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Matt Larsen - Lists" Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:41 PM To: "WISPA General List" ; "motorola Canopy User Group" Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > Here is a link to maps of the projects: > > http://bit.ly/3p2be3 > > I count four cell phone companies in my areas looking for stimulus money > to expand their existing phone networks. What a crock! > > Also, a big chunk of the country is covered by the Satellite providers > wanting money to upgrade their satellite network. Since when does that > actually improve broadband availability? I guess it is sort of like > broadband-lite. > > Ack! > > Matt Larsen > vistabeam.com > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Gotta love the entire country being colored from the satellite/research grant applications. -Kevin On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/silvermap/broadbandmap.aspx?program=ARRA > > Works now. Very few parts of the country don't have any projects covering > them. Any way to tell who they are? > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Matt Larsen - Lists" > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:41 PM > To: "WISPA General List" ; "motorola Canopy User Group" > > Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > >> Here is a link to maps of the projects: >> >> http://bit.ly/3p2be3 >> >> I count four cell phone companies in my areas looking for stimulus money >> to expand their existing phone networks. What a crock! >> >> Also, a big chunk of the country is covered by the Satellite providers >> wanting money to upgrade their satellite network. Since when does that >> actually improve broadband availability? I guess it is sort of like >> broadband-lite. >> >> Ack! >> >> Matt Larsen >> vistabeam.com >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Yep, most are "pending joint". I see the names of applicants if you got to the top task bar and click on "Public Notice" but if you put in any State, you will see the same applicants. Victoria -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/silvermap/broadbandmap.aspx?program= ARRA Works now. Very few parts of the country don't have any projects covering them. Any way to tell who they are? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Matt Larsen - Lists" Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:41 PM To: "WISPA General List" ; "motorola Canopy User Group" Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > Here is a link to maps of the projects: > > http://bit.ly/3p2be3 > > I count four cell phone companies in my areas looking for stimulus money > to expand their existing phone networks. What a crock! > > Also, a big chunk of the country is covered by the Satellite providers > wanting money to upgrade their satellite network. Since when does that > actually improve broadband availability? I guess it is sort of like > broadband-lite. > > Ack! > > Matt Larsen > vistabeam.com > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Forgive me for the stupid question,But i see "farm bill" all over my area and I am quite new to the grant programs.Anyone care to help me understand?Thanks,Jason --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Kevin Neal wrote: From: Kevin Neal Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects To: "WISPA General List" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 6:44 PM Gotta love the entire country being colored from the satellite/research grant applications. -Kevin On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/silvermap/broadbandmap.aspx?program=ARRA > > Works now. Very few parts of the country don't have any projects covering > them. Any way to tell who they are? > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Matt Larsen - Lists" > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:41 PM > To: "WISPA General List" ; "motorola Canopy User Group" > > Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > >> Here is a link to maps of the projects: >> >> http://bit.ly/3p2be3 >> >> I count four cell phone companies in my areas looking for stimulus money >> to expand their existing phone networks. What a crock! >> >> Also, a big chunk of the country is covered by the Satellite providers >> wanting money to upgrade their satellite network. Since when does that >> actually improve broadband availability? I guess it is sort of like >> broadband-lite. >> >> Ack! >> >> Matt Larsen >> vistabeam.com >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
I was hoping to see who on the map. There's applications for towns that aren't by any of the entities I know of in the area. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "St. Louis Broadband" Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:07 PM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > Yep, most are "pending joint". I see the names of applicants if you got > to > the top task bar and click on "Public Notice" but if you put in any State, > you will see the same applicants. > > Victoria > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:01 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > > http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/silvermap/broadbandmap.aspx?program= > ARRA > > Works now. Very few parts of the country don't have any projects covering > them. Any way to tell who they are? > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Matt Larsen - Lists" > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:41 PM > To: "WISPA General List" ; "motorola Canopy User > Group" > > Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > >> Here is a link to maps of the projects: >> >> http://bit.ly/3p2be3 >> >> I count four cell phone companies in my areas looking for stimulus money >> to expand their existing phone networks. What a crock! >> >> Also, a big chunk of the country is covered by the Satellite providers >> wanting money to upgrade their satellite network. Since when does that >> actually improve broadband availability? I guess it is sort of like >> broadband-lite. >> >> Ack! >> >> Matt Larsen >> vistabeam.com >> >> >> >> >> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Agreed with Mike How can you tell who owns what? Chris Cooper Intelliwave LLC Quoting Mike Hammett : > http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/silvermap/broadbandmap.aspx?program=ARRA > > Works now. Very few parts of the country don't have any projects covering > them. Any way to tell who they are? > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Matt Larsen - Lists" > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:41 PM > To: "WISPA General List" ; "motorola Canopy User Group" > > Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > >> Here is a link to maps of the projects: >> >> http://bit.ly/3p2be3 >> >> I count four cell phone companies in my areas looking for stimulus money >> to expand their existing phone networks. What a crock! >> >> Also, a big chunk of the country is covered by the Satellite providers >> wanting money to upgrade their satellite network. Since when does that >> actually improve broadband availability? I guess it is sort of like >> broadband-lite. >> >> Ack! >> >> Matt Larsen >> vistabeam.com >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
At this point you cannot. I think the NTIA is waiting for the States to weigh in so that they can start weeding out apps. Victoria -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of ccoo...@intelliwave.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 8:02 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Agreed with Mike How can you tell who owns what? Chris Cooper Intelliwave LLC Quoting Mike Hammett : > http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/silvermap/broadbandmap.aspx?program= ARRA > > Works now. Very few parts of the country don't have any projects covering > them. Any way to tell who they are? > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Matt Larsen - Lists" > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:41 PM > To: "WISPA General List" ; "motorola Canopy User Group" > > Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects > >> Here is a link to maps of the projects: >> >> http://bit.ly/3p2be3 >> >> I count four cell phone companies in my areas looking for stimulus money >> to expand their existing phone networks. What a crock! >> >> Also, a big chunk of the country is covered by the Satellite providers >> wanting money to upgrade their satellite network. Since when does that >> actually improve broadband availability? I guess it is sort of like >> broadband-lite. >> >> Ack! >> >> Matt Larsen >> vistabeam.com >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
