Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?
We are. There are number of things to check for Not knowing much about your network setup Making assumption that your BH and AP's are not over loaded. Making assumption that your MT's are not over loaded Making assumption that your Queue mech. are not an issue... Making assumption that there is no packet loss on the network path from customer to the VOIP Provider's (SIP RTP proxy) Basic fundamentals are as follows:- (think of peeling an onion, starting from the core going outwards). SIP Voice is two types of packets... SIP Signaling and RTP (Real time Packets / Voice or video) Most providers will mark their outbound SIP RTP with appropriate DSCP (qos) markings (feel free to google for info). Most ATA's will mark outbound SIP RPT with appropriate DSCP (802.1p qos) markings. Most Wireless Radio Mfg, when they support QOS, they will respect these markings, and handle traffic appropriately, (unless they run into other issues,, e.g. high pps rates etc). http://wiki.ubnt.com/AirMax_-_QoS_DSCP/TOS_Mappings FYI, with UBNT qos handling varied with Firmware Version...e.g. BOLD - special mapping cases starting from v5.5.4 Before v5.5.4 DSCP 46 go to WME Video, DSCP 26 go to WME Best Effort. -- Double Check the ATA's QOS Packet Marking...to make sure that Default DSCP Marking is what you are expecting... --- The other thing you need to check on is Jitter buffer settings. you may want to enable it and set it for for something like 100 to 150, to see if it improves stuff. - FYI, the biggest problem with VOIP and Fixed Wireless, is Packet Loss, and Jitter (this is more troublesome .. some packets arrive on time, other are delayed, and some are out of order) == Feel free to ping me off list if you need more info. or have questions. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Matt Brendle mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 3:56:33 PM Subject: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully? So a question for the masses. We are selling VoIP services and the number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect. Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs. Primarily Vitelity accounts. We get complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using successfully. I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups that would be great. I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get our Support Calls down. Matt – NC Wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?
Thanks Faisal. Your link was especially helpful. I had been going by the AirMax DSCP/TOS mapping chart from 2012 and it seems the TOS I had set for voice is now considered Background. -Matt From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 10:27 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully? We are. There are number of things to check for Not knowing much about your network setup Making assumption that your BH and AP's are not over loaded. Making assumption that your MT's are not over loaded Making assumption that your Queue mech. are not an issue... Making assumption that there is no packet loss on the network path from customer to the VOIP Provider's (SIP RTP proxy) Basic fundamentals are as follows:- (think of peeling an onion, starting from the core going outwards). SIP Voice is two types of packets... SIP Signaling and RTP (Real time Packets / Voice or video) Most providers will mark their outbound SIP RTP with appropriate DSCP (qos) markings (feel free to google for info). Most ATA's will mark outbound SIP RPT with appropriate DSCP (802.1p qos) markings. Most Wireless Radio Mfg, when they support QOS, they will respect these markings, and handle traffic appropriately, (unless they run into other issues,, e.g. high pps rates etc). http://wiki.ubnt.com/AirMax_-_QoS_DSCP/TOS_Mappings FYI, with UBNT qos handling varied with Firmware Version...e.g. BOLD - special mapping cases starting from v5.5.4 Before v5.5.4 DSCP 46 go to WME Video, DSCP 26 go to WME Best Effort. -- Double Check the ATA's QOS Packet Marking...to make sure that Default DSCP Marking is what you are expecting... --- The other thing you need to check on is Jitter buffer settings. you may want to enable it and set it for for something like 100 to 150, to see if it improves stuff. - FYI, the biggest problem with VOIP and Fixed Wireless, is Packet Loss, and Jitter (this is more troublesome .. some packets arrive on time, other are delayed, and some are out of order) == Feel free to ping me off list if you need more info. or have questions. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net _ From: Matt Brendle mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com mailto:mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 3:56:33 PM Subject: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully? So a question for the masses. We are selling VoIP services and the number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect. Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs. Primarily Vitelity accounts. We get complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using successfully. I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups that would be great. I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get our Support Calls down. Matt – NC Wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
[WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?
So a question for the masses. We are selling VoIP services and the number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect. Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs. Primarily Vitelity accounts. We get complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using successfully. I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups that would be great. I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get our Support Calls down. Matt - NC Wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?
Is the VOIP traffic encapsulated in any way, such as EoIP, PPPoE, etc? If so, AirMax will not be able to prioritize it correctly, assuming the correct DSCP value is assigned to the traffic to begin with. Josh Reynolds, CIO SPITwSPOTS www.spitwspots.com On 07/31/2014 11:56 AM, Matt Brendle wrote: So a question for the masses. We are selling VoIP services and the number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect. Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs. Primarily Vitelity accounts. We get complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using successfully. I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups that would be great. I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get our Support Calls down. Matt – NC Wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?
Nope. Public IP on the CPE. CPE is set to router mode and then we are doing DMZ to the ATA. Customer router sits behind ATA so local QOS is being handled by the ATA. I am doing traffic shaping in the CPE, but with VoIP customers we disable bursting. Other than that I don't do any prioritizing. -Matt From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:00 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully? Is the VOIP traffic encapsulated in any way, such as EoIP, PPPoE, etc? If so, AirMax will not be able to prioritize it correctly, assuming the correct DSCP value is assigned to the traffic to begin with. Josh Reynolds, CIO SPITwSPOTS www.spitwspots.com http://www.spitwspots.com On 07/31/2014 11:56 AM, Matt Brendle wrote: So a question for the masses. We are selling VoIP services and the number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect. Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs. Primarily Vitelity accounts. We get complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using successfully. I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups that would be great. I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get our Support Calls down. Matt - NC Wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?
You'll want to make sure you're tagging the Voip traffic with a DSCP tag. So the UBNT gear will give it a dedicated timeslot. This should improve the call quality if your issue is related to the RF side. If your issue is your connection to Vitelity, Or something else in the path, It won't make much of a difference. Off question.. Does anyone know if MT Radios do any type of automatic classification like airmax does as part of Nstream? Can this be changed with DSCP tags? Or would you have to just mark the DSCP tags and queue it yourself on the link? Nick Olsen Network Operations (855) FLSPEED x106 From: Matt Brendle mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:10 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully? Nope. Public IP on the CPE. CPE is set to router mode and then we are doing DMZ to the ATA. Customer router sits behind ATA so local QOS is being handled by the ATA. I am doing traffic shaping in the CPE, but with VoIP customers we disable bursting. Other than that I don't do any prioritizing. -Matt From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:00 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully? Is the VOIP traffic encapsulated in any way, such as EoIP, PPPoE, etc? If so, AirMax will not be able to prioritize it correctly, assuming the correct DSCP value is assigned to the traffic to begin with. Josh Reynolds, CIO SPITwSPOTS www.spitwspots.com On 07/31/2014 11:56 AM, Matt Brendle wrote: So a question for the masses. We are selling VoIP services and the number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect. Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs. Primarily Vitelity accounts. We get complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using successfully. I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups that would be great. I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get our Support Calls down. Matt - NC Wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?
On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:56:33 -0400 Matt Brendle mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com wrote: So a question for the masses. We are selling VoIP services and the number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect. Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs. Primarily Vitelity accounts. We get complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using successfully. I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups that would be great. We've been doing VOIP across dsl, dedicated and wireless circuits for years. It's a fairly simple engineering task that is very detail oriented. Jitter is the killer. I have and am using Cisco, Force 10, Mikrotik, UBNT, Radwin and MRV equipment. They all work but you have to look for any possible spot where there can be congestion and plan a way through. Mikrotik's are particularity difficult because they don't re-order packets. You make room by throwing something else away. Like everything Mikrotik it takes some middle to both edges thinking. Regularly sniff your voice traffic and be sure that the dscp/tos codes are there. Some switches/ providers will remove them. You can build an entire network with a pristine voice channel in it to find your voip running best effort. I have had that happen more than once. Also remember adding bandwidth on one link can create two or more new congestion points someplace else. details, details, details but once you get it right it's something to behold. I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get our Support Calls down. Matt - NC Wireless Larry Ash Network Administrator Mountain West Telephone 123 W 1st St. Casper, WY 82601 Office 307 233-8387 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?
Larry, Thanks for the feedback. I have a mix of ATAs deployed, but I am going to make sure they all have the right DSCP flags set for Airmax to prioritize. I will also take your advice on sniffing and include in my testing. That way I can make sure the flag isn't getting stripped off somewhere on my network. Anybody else with suggestions/info? I welcome all input no matter how minor or critical it may seem. -Matt -Original Message- From: l...@mwtcorp.net [mailto:l...@mwtcorp.net] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:59 PM To: WISPA General List; Matt Brendle Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully? On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:56:33 -0400 Matt Brendle mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com wrote: So a question for the masses. We are selling VoIP services and the number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect. Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs. Primarily Vitelity accounts. We get complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using successfully. I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups that would be great. We've been doing VOIP across dsl, dedicated and wireless circuits for years. It's a fairly simple engineering task that is very detail oriented. Jitter is the killer. I have and am using Cisco, Force 10, Mikrotik, UBNT, Radwin and MRV equipment. They all work but you have to look for any possible spot where there can be congestion and plan a way through. Mikrotik's are particularity difficult because they don't re-order packets. You make room by throwing something else away. Like everything Mikrotik it takes some middle to both edges thinking. Regularly sniff your voice traffic and be sure that the dscp/tos codes are there. Some switches/ providers will remove them. You can build an entire network with a pristine voice channel in it to find your voip running best effort. I have had that happen more than once. Also remember adding bandwidth on one link can create two or more new congestion points someplace else. details, details, details but once you get it right it's something to behold. I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get our Support Calls down. Matt - NC Wireless Larry Ash Network Administrator Mountain West Telephone 123 W 1st St. Casper, WY 82601 Office 307 233-8387 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?
I don't have anything to offer, but we are planning a limited rollout of VOIP and would be interested in feedback as well. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Brendle Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:11 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully? Larry, Thanks for the feedback. I have a mix of ATAs deployed, but I am going to make sure they all have the right DSCP flags set for Airmax to prioritize. I will also take your advice on sniffing and include in my testing. That way I can make sure the flag isn't getting stripped off somewhere on my network. Anybody else with suggestions/info? I welcome all input no matter how minor or critical it may seem. -Matt -Original Message- From: l...@mwtcorp.net [mailto:l...@mwtcorp.net] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:59 PM To: WISPA General List; Matt Brendle Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully? On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:56:33 -0400 Matt Brendle mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com wrote: So a question for the masses. We are selling VoIP services and the number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect. Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs. Primarily Vitelity accounts. We get complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using successfully. I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups that would be great. We've been doing VOIP across dsl, dedicated and wireless circuits for years. It's a fairly simple engineering task that is very detail oriented. Jitter is the killer. I have and am using Cisco, Force 10, Mikrotik, UBNT, Radwin and MRV equipment. They all work but you have to look for any possible spot where there can be congestion and plan a way through. Mikrotik's are particularity difficult because they don't re-order packets. You make room by throwing something else away. Like everything Mikrotik it takes some middle to both edges thinking. Regularly sniff your voice traffic and be sure that the dscp/tos codes are there. Some switches/ providers will remove them. You can build an entire network with a pristine voice channel in it to find your voip running best effort. I have had that happen more than once. Also remember adding bandwidth on one link can create two or more new congestion points someplace else. details, details, details but once you get it right it's something to behold. I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get our Support Calls down. Matt - NC Wireless Larry Ash Network Administrator Mountain West Telephone 123 W 1st St. Casper, WY 82601 Office 307 233-8387 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Matt Brendle mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com wrote: So a question for the masses. We are selling VoIP services and the number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect. Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs. Primarily Vitelity accounts. We get complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using successfully. I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups that would be great. I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get our Support Calls down. Besides the air side of the question, how is the network side ? How good is the connection from your network to the Vitelity SIP and media servers ? Although I would guess your issue is on the air side, good diagnosing starts by not assuming anything... Rubens ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully?
Correct. I am not planning on assuming anything. We have assumed the network from our NOC to the SIP servers was good in the past. That is going to be step 1 in my process. I will verify good quality from there and work my way back to the CPE. -Matt From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 6:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP - Who is using successfully? On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Matt Brendle mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com mailto:mattagator.mailingli...@gmail.com wrote: So a question for the masses. We are selling VoIP services and the number of Support Calls we get about poor performance is more than I would expect. Our basic setup is UBNT backhauls and APs, Mikrotik infrastructure routers, and CISCO/Linksys ATAs. Primarily Vitelity accounts. We get complaints of choppiness and other issues, and I wanted to see what others are using successfully. I am currently making a test procedure to try to find out where the issue is, but if anybody has success stories and example setups that would be great. I know that is a rather broad question, but I want to make this work and get our Support Calls down. Besides the air side of the question, how is the network side ? How good is the connection from your network to the Vitelity SIP and media servers ? Although I would guess your issue is on the air side, good diagnosing starts by not assuming anything... Rubens ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
