Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
What do we need to do to make that happen? I've never really had any money, but the company is growing and I should have a couple hundred bucks to invest in a WISPA membership. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Just this week, We at WISPA were in conference with FCC staff about rule changes seeking certified componentized self assembled systems and certified installer status. I did not hear any negativity from FCC, they were very open. Tom DeReggi wrote: John, AMEN!! That pretty much puts it in perspective. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment There are problems with the current rules which if followed to the letter of the law will lead to stifling innovation and backward behavior by operators. If Alvarion were to certify the Gabriel antenna with the B-100 then I would no longer be a criminal. That makes sense? I don't think so. Hey I guess I am nothing but a cowboy for using my $6K pair of Alvarion B-100 radios with my $1K pair of (already installed and aimed) Gabriel antennas? I guess there is no rationale for me to want to use a pair of the best parabolic antennas I have ever seen with installed radomes, machined mounting hardware, spun aluminum dish, etc. which were already aimed in place and in use with my previous FCC certified $10K EX-1 radio system. Using a better antenna already aimed makes me a criminal. I guess there are people here who do not think a company like Gabriel or any other antenna manufacturer should be able to sell their antennas unless they can talk a radio manufacturer like Alvarion or Motorola or somebody else into including their antenna models in their FCC certs? How is this fair? Should Andrews or Pac Wireless have to beg the radio guys to use their antennas in their certs to keep people from bashing their customers for being renegade cowboys who shirk the law? Should makers of single board computers be denied the right to sell their computing platforms to WISPs who wish to build quality systems using their platform to carry their favorite system management / routing / firewall / bandwidth shaping / captive portal / AP software? Is that fair? How is that any different than the FCC's recent allowance for any radio card to be installed into any laptop or desktop platform? Why is it that our SBCs running Linux are making us lawbreakers while the Dell laptops running Windows, or Linux, can install any radio modules they wish? Maybe we should start building APs out of old Del laptops since they have more regulatory leniency than our computing platforms. They get component level mix and match but the operators do not? Joe Blow on the street can mix and match any radio with any computer with any software but we cannot? What gives? We are only asking for what the PC industry has been granted with one more revision and that is that antennas be allowed to be mix and match also provided that EIRP and OOB rules are not broken. Why is it that asking for these things makes us criminals? Is it right for makers of radio modules to be forced to spend millions of dollars and wait for months of testing to allow their radio modules to be placed into a variety of SBCs using hundreds of antenna combinations with different software platforms or face being called a bunch of law breaking thugs? Telling WISPs who like having thousands of combinations to choose from that they are criminals and not giving them the right to at least consider some form of rational lobbying for better rules is NOT what we are about. We are NOT telling people to break the law. We DO acknowledge that the law has problems and we want to help fix those problems. If that makes us renegade cowboys then I will wear the badge with pride. There is merit to seeing some relaxation of the rules to either allow for a certified component rule where radios, SBCs, software and antennas can be assembled into systems which meet the rules or where an operator's license allows people to self-certify a system that meets the rules. WISPA is NOT about seeing how to justify breaking the law. It is about making sure the law does not break us. John Scrivner Marty Dougherty wrote: Well once again I am going to make a statement- I have promised to be "gone" from here- and I basically am- But I check in once in a while and the AP1000 thread caught my eye- We have a lot of Ap2000's from YDI (30 o
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
Sorry one lineragreed! -- Original Message -- From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: WISPA General List Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:37:59 -0400 >John, > >AMEN!! That pretty much puts it in perspective. Well said. > >Tom DeReggi >RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > >- Original Message - >From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "WISPA General List" >Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 3:56 PM >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment > > >> There are problems with the current rules which if followed to the letter >> of the law will lead to stifling innovation and backward behavior by >> operators. >> >> If Alvarion were to certify the Gabriel antenna with the B-100 then I >> would no longer be a criminal. That makes sense? I don't think so. >> >> Hey I guess I am nothing but a cowboy for using my $6K pair of Alvarion >> B-100 radios with my $1K pair of (already installed and aimed) Gabriel >> antennas? I guess there is no rationale for me to want to use a pair of >> the best parabolic antennas I have ever seen with installed radomes, >> machined mounting hardware, spun aluminum dish, etc. which were already >> aimed in place and in use with my previous FCC certified $10K EX-1 radio >> system. Using a better antenna already aimed makes me a criminal. >> >> I guess there are people here who do not think a company like Gabriel or >> any other antenna manufacturer should be able to sell their antennas >> unless they can talk a radio manufacturer like Alvarion or Motorola or >> somebody else into including their antenna models in their FCC certs? How >> is this fair? >> >> Should Andrews or Pac Wireless have to beg the radio guys to use their >> antennas in their certs to keep people from bashing their customers for >> being renegade cowboys who shirk the law? Should makers of single board >> computers be denied the right to sell their computing platforms to WISPs >> who wish to build quality systems using their platform to carry their >> favorite system management / routing / firewall / bandwidth shaping / >> captive portal / AP software? Is that fair? How is that any different than >> the FCC's recent allowance for any radio card to be installed into any >> laptop or desktop platform? Why is it that our SBCs running Linux are >> making us lawbreakers while the Dell laptops running Windows, or Linux, >> can install any radio modules they wish? Maybe we should start building >> APs out of old Del laptops since they have more regulatory leniency than >> our computing platforms. They get component level mix and match but the >> operators do not? Joe Blow on the street can mix and match any radio with >> any computer with any software but we cannot? What gives? We are only >> asking for what the PC industry has been granted with one more revision >> and that is that antennas be allowed to be mix and match also provided >> that EIRP and OOB rules are not broken. Why is it that asking for these >> things makes us criminals? >> >> Is it right for makers of radio modules to be forced to spend millions of >> dollars and wait for months of testing to allow their radio modules to be >> placed into a variety of SBCs using hundreds of antenna combinations with >> different software platforms or face being called a bunch of law breaking >> thugs? Telling WISPs who like having thousands of combinations to choose >> from that they are criminals and not giving them the right to at least >> consider some form of rational lobbying for better rules is NOT what we >> are about. We are NOT telling people to break the law. We DO acknowledge >> that the law has problems and we want to help fix those problems. If that >> makes us renegade cowboys then I will wear the badge with pride. >> >> There is merit to seeing some relaxation of the rules to either allow for >> a certified component rule where radios, SBCs, software and antennas can >> be assembled into systems which meet the rules or where an operator's >> license allows people to self-certify a system that meets the rules. >> >> WISPA is NOT about seeing how to justify breaking the law. It is about >> making sure the law does not break us. >> John Scrivner >> >> >> Marty Dougherty wrote: >>> Well once again I am going to make a statement- I have promised to be >>> "gone" from here- and I basically am- But I c
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
Just this week, We at WISPA were in conference with FCC staff about rule changes seeking certified componentized self assembled systems and certified installer status. I did not hear any negativity from FCC, they were very open. Tom DeReggi wrote: John, AMEN!! That pretty much puts it in perspective. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment There are problems with the current rules which if followed to the letter of the law will lead to stifling innovation and backward behavior by operators. If Alvarion were to certify the Gabriel antenna with the B-100 then I would no longer be a criminal. That makes sense? I don't think so. Hey I guess I am nothing but a cowboy for using my $6K pair of Alvarion B-100 radios with my $1K pair of (already installed and aimed) Gabriel antennas? I guess there is no rationale for me to want to use a pair of the best parabolic antennas I have ever seen with installed radomes, machined mounting hardware, spun aluminum dish, etc. which were already aimed in place and in use with my previous FCC certified $10K EX-1 radio system. Using a better antenna already aimed makes me a criminal. I guess there are people here who do not think a company like Gabriel or any other antenna manufacturer should be able to sell their antennas unless they can talk a radio manufacturer like Alvarion or Motorola or somebody else into including their antenna models in their FCC certs? How is this fair? Should Andrews or Pac Wireless have to beg the radio guys to use their antennas in their certs to keep people from bashing their customers for being renegade cowboys who shirk the law? Should makers of single board computers be denied the right to sell their computing platforms to WISPs who wish to build quality systems using their platform to carry their favorite system management / routing / firewall / bandwidth shaping / captive portal / AP software? Is that fair? How is that any different than the FCC's recent allowance for any radio card to be installed into any laptop or desktop platform? Why is it that our SBCs running Linux are making us lawbreakers while the Dell laptops running Windows, or Linux, can install any radio modules they wish? Maybe we should start building APs out of old Del laptops since they have more regulatory leniency than our computing platforms. They get component level mix and match but the operators do not? Joe Blow on the street can mix and match any radio with any computer with any software but we cannot? What gives? We are only asking for what the PC industry has been granted with one more revision and that is that antennas be allowed to be mix and match also provided that EIRP and OOB rules are not broken. Why is it that asking for these things makes us criminals? Is it right for makers of radio modules to be forced to spend millions of dollars and wait for months of testing to allow their radio modules to be placed into a variety of SBCs using hundreds of antenna combinations with different software platforms or face being called a bunch of law breaking thugs? Telling WISPs who like having thousands of combinations to choose from that they are criminals and not giving them the right to at least consider some form of rational lobbying for better rules is NOT what we are about. We are NOT telling people to break the law. We DO acknowledge that the law has problems and we want to help fix those problems. If that makes us renegade cowboys then I will wear the badge with pride. There is merit to seeing some relaxation of the rules to either allow for a certified component rule where radios, SBCs, software and antennas can be assembled into systems which meet the rules or where an operator's license allows people to self-certify a system that meets the rules. WISPA is NOT about seeing how to justify breaking the law. It is about making sure the law does not break us. John Scrivner Marty Dougherty wrote: Well once again I am going to make a statement- I have promised to be "gone" from here- and I basically am- But I check in once in a while and the AP1000 thread caught my eye- We have a lot of Ap2000's from YDI (30 or 40)- yes- all legal and purchased as a system from YDI. We have not bought any other wifi and don't deploy it anymore and we don't mix and match. As amps etc fail (or start leaking) we use our decommissioned stock. Hopefully we will have all of them out of the network some day. Anyhow, once again the thread goes back to the same subject- Operating legally and the back and forth pissing about this. I will tell you all that for SURE you will never get a large scale WISP to j
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
John, AMEN!! That pretty much puts it in perspective. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment There are problems with the current rules which if followed to the letter of the law will lead to stifling innovation and backward behavior by operators. If Alvarion were to certify the Gabriel antenna with the B-100 then I would no longer be a criminal. That makes sense? I don't think so. Hey I guess I am nothing but a cowboy for using my $6K pair of Alvarion B-100 radios with my $1K pair of (already installed and aimed) Gabriel antennas? I guess there is no rationale for me to want to use a pair of the best parabolic antennas I have ever seen with installed radomes, machined mounting hardware, spun aluminum dish, etc. which were already aimed in place and in use with my previous FCC certified $10K EX-1 radio system. Using a better antenna already aimed makes me a criminal. I guess there are people here who do not think a company like Gabriel or any other antenna manufacturer should be able to sell their antennas unless they can talk a radio manufacturer like Alvarion or Motorola or somebody else into including their antenna models in their FCC certs? How is this fair? Should Andrews or Pac Wireless have to beg the radio guys to use their antennas in their certs to keep people from bashing their customers for being renegade cowboys who shirk the law? Should makers of single board computers be denied the right to sell their computing platforms to WISPs who wish to build quality systems using their platform to carry their favorite system management / routing / firewall / bandwidth shaping / captive portal / AP software? Is that fair? How is that any different than the FCC's recent allowance for any radio card to be installed into any laptop or desktop platform? Why is it that our SBCs running Linux are making us lawbreakers while the Dell laptops running Windows, or Linux, can install any radio modules they wish? Maybe we should start building APs out of old Del laptops since they have more regulatory leniency than our computing platforms. They get component level mix and match but the operators do not? Joe Blow on the street can mix and match any radio with any computer with any software but we cannot? What gives? We are only asking for what the PC industry has been granted with one more revision and that is that antennas be allowed to be mix and match also provided that EIRP and OOB rules are not broken. Why is it that asking for these things makes us criminals? Is it right for makers of radio modules to be forced to spend millions of dollars and wait for months of testing to allow their radio modules to be placed into a variety of SBCs using hundreds of antenna combinations with different software platforms or face being called a bunch of law breaking thugs? Telling WISPs who like having thousands of combinations to choose from that they are criminals and not giving them the right to at least consider some form of rational lobbying for better rules is NOT what we are about. We are NOT telling people to break the law. We DO acknowledge that the law has problems and we want to help fix those problems. If that makes us renegade cowboys then I will wear the badge with pride. There is merit to seeing some relaxation of the rules to either allow for a certified component rule where radios, SBCs, software and antennas can be assembled into systems which meet the rules or where an operator's license allows people to self-certify a system that meets the rules. WISPA is NOT about seeing how to justify breaking the law. It is about making sure the law does not break us. John Scrivner Marty Dougherty wrote: Well once again I am going to make a statement- I have promised to be "gone" from here- and I basically am- But I check in once in a while and the AP1000 thread caught my eye- We have a lot of Ap2000's from YDI (30 or 40)- yes- all legal and purchased as a system from YDI. We have not bought any other wifi and don't deploy it anymore and we don't mix and match. As amps etc fail (or start leaking) we use our decommissioned stock. Hopefully we will have all of them out of the network some day. Anyhow, once again the thread goes back to the same subject- Operating legally and the back and forth pissing about this. I will tell you all that for SURE you will never get a large scale WISP to join, support and contribute to WISPA because of this issue. WISPA will always be a collection of renegades and small time operators who are known in the industry as "do what you want/need rule breakers". More and more of you want to operate with licen
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
And lets not forget Ligowave, who has their certified system. And ADI hard at work on releasing theirs. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 3:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment I hear "someone" is coming out with a certified MT system and I hear that another "someone" is coming out with a certified Star system. Oh yeah, I understand that Tranzeo does their own testing and certification. Very impressive... Butch Evans wrote: On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Ralph wrote: Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry In that case, I'll apologize. I was not aware of any Orinoco based certified systems other than YDI's system. As for the idea of "rationalizing illegality", I think you misunderstand my intent. I get tired of this whole argument. I agree that being legal should be primary importance, but that has nothing to do with the original question. I get very tired of hearing the answer to every Mikrotik question with "it's not certified". While true, it is not helpful in answering the questions people pose. As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? I have done this. I can tell you (and others) that Mikrotik DOES hear the cries for certified gear and I can suggest that you (and others) keep watching to see what comes. I cannot say more than that. WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. You are making ridiculous comparisons. A system that conforms to the standards that have been dictated, comprised of components that have been certified to behave in a certain way, is a FAR cry from a "build a microwave oven project". I understand that statement may have been a bit toungue in cheek, but the point is that we are not asking for the freedom to just put together whatever we want in any combination with wreckless abandon. What we want to do is: 1. Use components with known, certified behaviour 2. Put these components together into a system 3. Stay within the EIRP and other parameters as outlined in the Part-15 rules. I don't think this is very different from what the computer people are doing now, since I know I have a laptop with a wireless card, and there is no separate Part-15 certification for my laptop. There is a sticker that says "Tested to comply with Part-15 standards for home or office use". While I have to agree that this is not the same as me putting a radio on a tower, the principle IS the same, so long as I "comply with Part-15 standards for outdoor point to multipoint radio systems". I understand this is not currently the law, I don't agree that this is a "pipe dream". I think there is certainly a possible solution to this desire. ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.i
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
John speaks so much better than I do. Good thing he's of the same mindset as myself. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment There are problems with the current rules which if followed to the letter of the law will lead to stifling innovation and backward behavior by operators. If Alvarion were to certify the Gabriel antenna with the B-100 then I would no longer be a criminal. That makes sense? I don't think so. Hey I guess I am nothing but a cowboy for using my $6K pair of Alvarion B-100 radios with my $1K pair of (already installed and aimed) Gabriel antennas? I guess there is no rationale for me to want to use a pair of the best parabolic antennas I have ever seen with installed radomes, machined mounting hardware, spun aluminum dish, etc. which were already aimed in place and in use with my previous FCC certified $10K EX-1 radio system. Using a better antenna already aimed makes me a criminal. I guess there are people here who do not think a company like Gabriel or any other antenna manufacturer should be able to sell their antennas unless they can talk a radio manufacturer like Alvarion or Motorola or somebody else into including their antenna models in their FCC certs? How is this fair? Should Andrews or Pac Wireless have to beg the radio guys to use their antennas in their certs to keep people from bashing their customers for being renegade cowboys who shirk the law? Should makers of single board computers be denied the right to sell their computing platforms to WISPs who wish to build quality systems using their platform to carry their favorite system management / routing / firewall / bandwidth shaping / captive portal / AP software? Is that fair? How is that any different than the FCC's recent allowance for any radio card to be installed into any laptop or desktop platform? Why is it that our SBCs running Linux are making us lawbreakers while the Dell laptops running Windows, or Linux, can install any radio modules they wish? Maybe we should start building APs out of old Del laptops since they have more regulatory leniency than our computing platforms. They get component level mix and match but the operators do not? Joe Blow on the street can mix and match any radio with any computer with any software but we cannot? What gives? We are only asking for what the PC industry has been granted with one more revision and that is that antennas be allowed to be mix and match also provided that EIRP and OOB rules are not broken. Why is it that asking for these things makes us criminals? Is it right for makers of radio modules to be forced to spend millions of dollars and wait for months of testing to allow their radio modules to be placed into a variety of SBCs using hundreds of antenna combinations with different software platforms or face being called a bunch of law breaking thugs? Telling WISPs who like having thousands of combinations to choose from that they are criminals and not giving them the right to at least consider some form of rational lobbying for better rules is NOT what we are about. We are NOT telling people to break the law. We DO acknowledge that the law has problems and we want to help fix those problems. If that makes us renegade cowboys then I will wear the badge with pride. There is merit to seeing some relaxation of the rules to either allow for a certified component rule where radios, SBCs, software and antennas can be assembled into systems which meet the rules or where an operator's license allows people to self-certify a system that meets the rules. WISPA is NOT about seeing how to justify breaking the law. It is about making sure the law does not break us. John Scrivner Marty Dougherty wrote: Well once again I am going to make a statement- I have promised to be "gone" from here- and I basically am- But I check in once in a while and the AP1000 thread caught my eye- We have a lot of Ap2000's from YDI (30 or 40)- yes- all legal and purchased as a system from YDI. We have not bought any other wifi and don't deploy it anymore and we don't mix and match. As amps etc fail (or start leaking) we use our decommissioned stock. Hopefully we will have all of them out of the network some day. Anyhow, once again the thread goes back to the same subject- Operating legally and the back and forth pissing about this. I will tell you all that for SURE you will never get a large scale WISP to join, support and contribute to WISPA because of this issue. WISPA will always be a collection of renegades and small time operators who are known in the industry as "do what you want/need rule breakers". More and more of you w
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
yourself why companies like http://netbnr.net/loc.html?http://www.wcai.com/about_us.htm are not joining and contributing to WISPA? I joined with the intention of helping our industry but was almost immediately nailed with this whole legal operator issue when I spoke up. Not many of us are willing to do anything with WISPA until that position changes and it has to be at the EXEC BOARD level. It's very obvious to all that the board does not want to address the issue under the current rules. Save all the usual BS attacks for someone else-they don't bother me and they wont change a thing for WISPA and only serve to drive more operators away Marty Dougherty CEO Roadstar Internet Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Ralph - I do believe Butch has a valid point here. If you are using an "Orinoco" AP with your own DIY setup (sounds like you are) - I hardly think you're legal. So why does the pot call the kettle black in this or any other instance ? JohnnyO - Original Message - From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 7:03 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. How can we WISPS as an industry just blatantly defy the rules. Because they are silly doesn't void them, nor does it give us the authorization to ignore them. Does someone need to get fined and made an example of? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment I suppose you are using a complete certified system with the Orinoco AP? (radio, pigtail, enclosure, cables, antenna) Just for all our comfort, can you provide the FCC IDs on the gear you are using? ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
I hear "someone" is coming out with a certified MT system and I hear that another "someone" is coming out with a certified Star system. Oh yeah, I understand that Tranzeo does their own testing and certification. Very impressive... Butch Evans wrote: On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Ralph wrote: Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry In that case, I'll apologize. I was not aware of any Orinoco based certified systems other than YDI's system. As for the idea of "rationalizing illegality", I think you misunderstand my intent. I get tired of this whole argument. I agree that being legal should be primary importance, but that has nothing to do with the original question. I get very tired of hearing the answer to every Mikrotik question with "it's not certified". While true, it is not helpful in answering the questions people pose. As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? I have done this. I can tell you (and others) that Mikrotik DOES hear the cries for certified gear and I can suggest that you (and others) keep watching to see what comes. I cannot say more than that. WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. You are making ridiculous comparisons. A system that conforms to the standards that have been dictated, comprised of components that have been certified to behave in a certain way, is a FAR cry from a "build a microwave oven project". I understand that statement may have been a bit toungue in cheek, but the point is that we are not asking for the freedom to just put together whatever we want in any combination with wreckless abandon. What we want to do is: 1. Use components with known, certified behaviour 2. Put these components together into a system 3. Stay within the EIRP and other parameters as outlined in the Part-15 rules. I don't think this is very different from what the computer people are doing now, since I know I have a laptop with a wireless card, and there is no separate Part-15 certification for my laptop. There is a sticker that says "Tested to comply with Part-15 standards for home or office use". While I have to agree that this is not the same as me putting a radio on a tower, the principle IS the same, so long as I "comply with Part-15 standards for outdoor point to multipoint radio systems". I understand this is not currently the law, I don't agree that this is a "pipe dream". I think there is certainly a possible solution to this desire. ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Ralph wrote: Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry In that case, I'll apologize. I was not aware of any Orinoco based certified systems other than YDI's system. As for the idea of "rationalizing illegality", I think you misunderstand my intent. I get tired of this whole argument. I agree that being legal should be primary importance, but that has nothing to do with the original question. I get very tired of hearing the answer to every Mikrotik question with "it's not certified". While true, it is not helpful in answering the questions people pose. As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? I have done this. I can tell you (and others) that Mikrotik DOES hear the cries for certified gear and I can suggest that you (and others) keep watching to see what comes. I cannot say more than that. WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. You are making ridiculous comparisons. A system that conforms to the standards that have been dictated, comprised of components that have been certified to behave in a certain way, is a FAR cry from a "build a microwave oven project". I understand that statement may have been a bit toungue in cheek, but the point is that we are not asking for the freedom to just put together whatever we want in any combination with wreckless abandon. What we want to do is: 1. Use components with known, certified behaviour 2. Put these components together into a system 3. Stay within the EIRP and other parameters as outlined in the Part-15 rules. I don't think this is very different from what the computer people are doing now, since I know I have a laptop with a wireless card, and there is no separate Part-15 certification for my laptop. There is a sticker that says "Tested to comply with Part-15 standards for home or office use". While I have to agree that this is not the same as me putting a radio on a tower, the principle IS the same, so long as I "comply with Part-15 standards for outdoor point to multipoint radio systems". I understand this is not currently the law, I don't agree that this is a "pipe dream". I think there is certainly a possible solution to this desire. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
oh, but it is. When they certify a cocmponent, they should be able to certify it as a component, to be used in any fashion that compontent can be used in. It's not that difficult of an idea. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:13 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Of course you can build a radio kit from Ramsey, but you won't be using it on commercial frequencies. You know that's what I was talking about. You don't put Ramsey in the same category as Moto, Kenwood and Icom. Hams cannot build equipment for resale, Ham gear may not be used on non-ham frequencies or the Ham will lose his LICENSE. TV and radio stations are under very close scrutiny from the FCC to stay within the guidelines of their LICENSE. Enen a small modification to their tower or their transmitting frequency or direction can get them fined. Do you see the common key word in the above sentences? LICENSED. The WISP equipment we are discussing here is not licensed. There is a large difference. It would be nice if there was a way to mix n' match radios, antennas and whotnot any way we wanted, but I just don't see it happening. The PC industry and the industrial control industry are not building transmitting systems. Its not even apples and apples. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Ralph, as a matter of fact, you CAN build your own radios... http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/ I'm saddened that anyone in this industry would not want the ability to mix and match CERTIFIED components. It's done all of the time already. Both in our industry, the PC industry, industrial controls etc. etc. etc. etc. Oh yeah, let us no forget about the hams. They don't even have to use certified components! They can build the whole thing from the ground up. Seems to me that radio and TV stations can also built transmit sights as they see fit. THEY are the responsible parties. But that's all ok. If we get our way you'll still be able to buy that certified system! No problem with that. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:03 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. How can we WISPS as an industry just blatantly defy the rules. Because they are silly doesn't void them, nor does it give us the authorization to ignore them. Does someone need to get fined and made an example of? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment I suppose you are using a complete certified system with the Orinoco AP? (radio, pigtail, enclosure, cables, antenna) Just for all our comfort, can you provide the FCC IDs on the gear you are using? -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
Marty, Whether we want to admit it or not, WISPA is an association that represents small operators. The big companies don't need representation, they have the cash to lobby for their interests better than we can lobby it for them. Therefore it is impossible for WISPA to alienate illegal operators by policing them with harsh policy and still survive. What WISPA can continue to do is, educate on how to become legal, and encourage the industry to evolve to legality as best they can. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Marty Dougherty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:32 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Well once again I am going to make a statement- I have promised to be "gone" from here- and I basically am- But I check in once in a while and the AP1000 thread caught my eye- We have a lot of Ap2000's from YDI (30 or 40)- yes- all legal and purchased as a system from YDI. We have not bought any other wifi and don't deploy it anymore and we don't mix and match. As amps etc fail (or start leaking) we use our decommissioned stock. Hopefully we will have all of them out of the network some day. Anyhow, once again the thread goes back to the same subject- Operating legally and the back and forth pissing about this. I will tell you all that for SURE you will never get a large scale WISP to join, support and contribute to WISPA because of this issue. WISPA will always be a collection of renegades and small time operators who are known in the industry as "do what you want/need rule breakers". More and more of you want to operate with licensed spectrum. At the same time, the Clearwires and Tower Streams are starting to use unlicensed as well- What is the difference between them and the typical WISP? The lines are blending even more now and it will be harder to explain to the "industry and the FCC" why WISP's want to operate this way but the "grown ups" can follow the rules? Ask yourself why companies like http://netbnr.net/loc.html?http://www.wcai.com/about_us.htm are not joining and contributing to WISPA? I joined with the intention of helping our industry but was almost immediately nailed with this whole legal operator issue when I spoke up. Not many of us are willing to do anything with WISPA until that position changes and it has to be at the EXEC BOARD level. It's very obvious to all that the board does not want to address the issue under the current rules. Save all the usual BS attacks for someone else-they don't bother me and they wont change a thing for WISPA and only serve to drive more operators away Marty Dougherty CEO Roadstar Internet Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Ralph - I do believe Butch has a valid point here. If you are using an "Orinoco" AP with your own DIY setup (sounds like you are) - I hardly think you're legal. So why does the pot call the kettle black in this or any other instance ? JohnnyO - Original Message - From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 7:03 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. How can we WISPS as an industry just blatantly defy the rules. Because they are silly doesn't void them, nor does it give us the authorization to ignore them. Does someone need to get fined and made an example of? -----Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment I suppose you are using a complete certified system with the Orinoco AP? (radio, pigtail, enclosure, cables, antenna) Just for all our comfort, can you provide the FCC IDs on the gear you are using? -- -
RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
Well once again I am going to make a statement- I have promised to be "gone" from here- and I basically am- But I check in once in a while and the AP1000 thread caught my eye- We have a lot of Ap2000's from YDI (30 or 40)- yes- all legal and purchased as a system from YDI. We have not bought any other wifi and don't deploy it anymore and we don't mix and match. As amps etc fail (or start leaking) we use our decommissioned stock. Hopefully we will have all of them out of the network some day. Anyhow, once again the thread goes back to the same subject- Operating legally and the back and forth pissing about this. I will tell you all that for SURE you will never get a large scale WISP to join, support and contribute to WISPA because of this issue. WISPA will always be a collection of renegades and small time operators who are known in the industry as "do what you want/need rule breakers". More and more of you want to operate with licensed spectrum. At the same time, the Clearwires and Tower Streams are starting to use unlicensed as well- What is the difference between them and the typical WISP? The lines are blending even more now and it will be harder to explain to the "industry and the FCC" why WISP's want to operate this way but the "grown ups" can follow the rules? Ask yourself why companies like http://netbnr.net/loc.html?http://www.wcai.com/about_us.htm are not joining and contributing to WISPA? I joined with the intention of helping our industry but was almost immediately nailed with this whole legal operator issue when I spoke up. Not many of us are willing to do anything with WISPA until that position changes and it has to be at the EXEC BOARD level. It's very obvious to all that the board does not want to address the issue under the current rules. Save all the usual BS attacks for someone else-they don't bother me and they wont change a thing for WISPA and only serve to drive more operators away Marty Dougherty CEO Roadstar Internet Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Ralph - I do believe Butch has a valid point here. If you are using an "Orinoco" AP with your own DIY setup (sounds like you are) - I hardly think you're legal. So why does the pot call the kettle black in this or any other instance ? JohnnyO - Original Message - From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 7:03 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. How can we WISPS as an industry just blatantly defy the rules. Because they are silly doesn't void them, nor does it give us the authorization to ignore them. Does someone need to get fined and made an example of? -Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment I suppose you are using a complete certified system with the Orinoco AP? (radio, pigtail, enclosure, cables, antenna) Just for all our comfort, can you provide the FCC IDs on the gear you are using? -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ---
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
The downside may be that creating such a licensed operator program may not be feasible and could possibly attract attention (negative attention) to the WISP industry. I am not saying that is how it would go. I am just saying that there needs to be more thought given to this idea of a licensed operator program for WISPs. I am not convinced that this is needed or that it will fix any problems. In order for this type of a program to fix the problems then people who use the gear would need to get their operator's license. If the FCC will not enforce the rules in place now then what makes you think people will abide by the new licensed operator rule any more than they would the current rules? I think if we had one minor change to the rules which stated that as long as EIRP and oob emission standards were met using certified radio devices then any combinations of passive devices, SBCs and software connected to those certified radios would be legal. That should be the crux of our petition if one is made. I think the licensed operator idea is a great concept that will likely not be logistically or feasibly practical to implement or lobby for passage of. If we cannot get the relaxation of the certification rules then I doubt any other idea for allowing this to change will succeed. Scriv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Ralph, does it help that we're talking about a certified operator program? Not just allowing anyone to mix and match anything they want. Basically we'd create a new licensed unlicensed operator. What's the down side? marlon - Original Message - From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 9:13 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Of course you can build a radio kit from Ramsey, but you won't be using it on commercial frequencies. You know that's what I was talking about. You don't put Ramsey in the same category as Moto, Kenwood and Icom. Hams cannot build equipment for resale, Ham gear may not be used on non-ham frequencies or the Ham will lose his LICENSE. TV and radio stations are under very close scrutiny from the FCC to stay within the guidelines of their LICENSE. Enen a small modification to their tower or their transmitting frequency or direction can get them fined. Do you see the common key word in the above sentences? LICENSED. The WISP equipment we are discussing here is not licensed. There is a large difference. It would be nice if there was a way to mix n' match radios, antennas and whotnot any way we wanted, but I just don't see it happening. The PC industry and the industrial control industry are not building transmitting systems. Its not even apples and apples. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Ralph, as a matter of fact, you CAN build your own radios... http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/ I'm saddened that anyone in this industry would not want the ability to mix and match CERTIFIED components. It's done all of the time already. Both in our industry, the PC industry, industrial controls etc. etc. etc. etc. Oh yeah, let us no forget about the hams. They don't even have to use certified components! They can build the whole thing from the ground up. Seems to me that radio and TV stations can also built transmit sights as they see fit. THEY are the responsible parties. But that's all ok. If we get our way you'll still be able to buy that certified system! No problem with that. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:03 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. How can we WISPS as an industry just blatantly defy the rules. Because they are silly doesn't void them, nor does it give us the authorization to ignore them. Does someone need to get fined and made an e
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
Ralph, does it help that we're talking about a certified operator program? Not just allowing anyone to mix and match anything they want. Basically we'd create a new licensed unlicensed operator. What's the down side? marlon - Original Message - From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 9:13 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Of course you can build a radio kit from Ramsey, but you won't be using it on commercial frequencies. You know that's what I was talking about. You don't put Ramsey in the same category as Moto, Kenwood and Icom. Hams cannot build equipment for resale, Ham gear may not be used on non-ham frequencies or the Ham will lose his LICENSE. TV and radio stations are under very close scrutiny from the FCC to stay within the guidelines of their LICENSE. Enen a small modification to their tower or their transmitting frequency or direction can get them fined. Do you see the common key word in the above sentences? LICENSED. The WISP equipment we are discussing here is not licensed. There is a large difference. It would be nice if there was a way to mix n' match radios, antennas and whotnot any way we wanted, but I just don't see it happening. The PC industry and the industrial control industry are not building transmitting systems. Its not even apples and apples. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Ralph, as a matter of fact, you CAN build your own radios... http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/ I'm saddened that anyone in this industry would not want the ability to mix and match CERTIFIED components. It's done all of the time already. Both in our industry, the PC industry, industrial controls etc. etc. etc. etc. Oh yeah, let us no forget about the hams. They don't even have to use certified components! They can build the whole thing from the ground up. Seems to me that radio and TV stations can also built transmit sights as they see fit. THEY are the responsible parties. But that's all ok. If we get our way you'll still be able to buy that certified system! No problem with that. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:03 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. How can we WISPS as an industry just blatantly defy the rules. Because they are silly doesn't void them, nor does it give us the authorization to ignore them. Does someone need to get fined and made an example of? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment I suppose you are using a complete certified system with the Orinoco AP? (radio, pigtail, enclosure, cables, antenna) Just for all our comfort, can you provide the FCC IDs on the gear you are using? -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Rece
RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
Of course you can build a radio kit from Ramsey, but you won't be using it on commercial frequencies. You know that's what I was talking about. You don't put Ramsey in the same category as Moto, Kenwood and Icom. Hams cannot build equipment for resale, Ham gear may not be used on non-ham frequencies or the Ham will lose his LICENSE. TV and radio stations are under very close scrutiny from the FCC to stay within the guidelines of their LICENSE. Enen a small modification to their tower or their transmitting frequency or direction can get them fined. Do you see the common key word in the above sentences? LICENSED. The WISP equipment we are discussing here is not licensed. There is a large difference. It would be nice if there was a way to mix n' match radios, antennas and whotnot any way we wanted, but I just don't see it happening. The PC industry and the industrial control industry are not building transmitting systems. Its not even apples and apples. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Ralph, as a matter of fact, you CAN build your own radios... http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/ I'm saddened that anyone in this industry would not want the ability to mix and match CERTIFIED components. It's done all of the time already. Both in our industry, the PC industry, industrial controls etc. etc. etc. etc. Oh yeah, let us no forget about the hams. They don't even have to use certified components! They can build the whole thing from the ground up. Seems to me that radio and TV stations can also built transmit sights as they see fit. THEY are the responsible parties. But that's all ok. If we get our way you'll still be able to buy that certified system! No problem with that. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:03 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. How can we WISPS as an industry just blatantly defy the rules. Because they are silly doesn't void them, nor does it give us the authorization to ignore them. Does someone need to get fined and made an example of? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment I suppose you are using a complete certified system with the Orinoco AP? (radio, pigtail, enclosure, cables, antenna) Just for all our comfort, can you provide the FCC IDs on the gear you are using? -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
Ralph, as a matter of fact, you CAN build your own radios... http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/ I'm saddened that anyone in this industry would not want the ability to mix and match CERTIFIED components. It's done all of the time already. Both in our industry, the PC industry, industrial controls etc. etc. etc. etc. Oh yeah, let us no forget about the hams. They don't even have to use certified components! They can build the whole thing from the ground up. Seems to me that radio and TV stations can also built transmit sights as they see fit. THEY are the responsible parties. But that's all ok. If we get our way you'll still be able to buy that certified system! No problem with that. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:03 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. How can we WISPS as an industry just blatantly defy the rules. Because they are silly doesn't void them, nor does it give us the authorization to ignore them. Does someone need to get fined and made an example of? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment I suppose you are using a complete certified system with the Orinoco AP? (radio, pigtail, enclosure, cables, antenna) Just for all our comfort, can you provide the FCC IDs on the gear you are using? -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
Why are you twisting my words, Johnny? I never mentioned a word about having DIY. I said the WISPA DIY was a pipe dream because I know the FCC and how they do things. We do not have any "DIY" in our WISP and never have. Our RF is all Canopy, Deliberant, and Tranzeo. We use certified gear along with certified antennas in the proper configurations. My remaining Orinoco access points (which are Part 15 certified including their integrated antennas) are trucking along nicely (and they are not part of the WISP). My stance on FCC Part 15 is that it is embarrasing that people in our industry brag that they are disobeying the rules and it casts a pall over the WISP industry. It is perfect ammunition for those who would like to see us gone to lobby for such things. I'm afraid that before we see access to new bands and things like TV white space that we need to clean up our own backyards. The kettle is definitely black, but there's not even a pot on the stove! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Ralph - I do believe Butch has a valid point here. If you are using an "Orinoco" AP with your own DIY setup (sounds like you are) - I hardly think you're legal. So why does the pot call the kettle black in this or any other instance ? JohnnyO - Original Message - From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 7:03 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. How can we WISPS as an industry just blatantly defy the rules. Because they are silly doesn't void them, nor does it give us the authorization to ignore them. Does someone need to get fined and made an example of? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment I suppose you are using a complete certified system with the Orinoco AP? (radio, pigtail, enclosure, cables, antenna) Just for all our comfort, can you provide the FCC IDs on the gear you are using? -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
I would check pigtails and jumpers or possibly a radio card replacement just to be sure. I have had good luck with MT as APs using both atheros based cards as well as prism based cards. All clients radios were prism based (CB3, Tranzeo). The RB200 boards have seemed a little more solid, but they don't have the ompf of a 532 are they are close to twice the price last I checked. If I was going to suggest a StarOS implementation I would suggest the WARs especially if the rumors of an "open certification kit" are true. David E. Smith wrote: Luke Pack wrote: We were looking into a solution here... we had an Orinoco AP-1000 and that got blown, so we replaced it with a Mikrotik with an SR2 card. The Mikrotik cannot come near to the quality of the Orinoco. This has actually happened before on another tower with all known good equipment. I have people not on the tower, and those who are, have much worse signals. The Mikrotik is set to auto, with regulatory domain as United States. Tx power is at default. Anyone know what the problem could be? This may be an unpopular opinion in some parts, but I've never had the best of luck with Mikrotik's software as an access point - too much generally odd behaviour like what you're describing. I love their software for weird routing and firewalling tasks, and have a lot of their hardware deployed (much of running non-Mikrotik software), but it seems to make for a lousy AP. As has previously been mentioned, if you can still find a RouterBoard 200, they have PCMCIA slots. (You may also want to look into other software for it. The RB200 is a standard x86 board; you can install, say, StarOS on a flash card and probably get the results you need.) If you want to get really really fancy, get a Soekris 5501 and case, and a PCI-to-PCMCIA adapter. That way the card slides right into the top of the case so it even LOOKS like an AP-1000. :) Consider also experimenting a bit with the radio card you use. The CM-9 doesn't have as much raw naked power as the SR2, but it has slightly better receive sensitivity. More important, it just "feels" more reliable. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ href="http://mail.shwisp.net/spam/dspam.cgi?template=history&user=tetherow&retrain=spam&signatureID=16,46d442b116357985714595";>!DSPAM:16,46d442b116357985714595! ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
Ralph - I do believe Butch has a valid point here. If you are using an "Orinoco" AP with your own DIY setup (sounds like you are) - I hardly think you're legal. So why does the pot call the kettle black in this or any other instance ? JohnnyO - Original Message - From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 7:03 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. How can we WISPS as an industry just blatantly defy the rules. Because they are silly doesn't void them, nor does it give us the authorization to ignore them. Does someone need to get fined and made an example of? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment I suppose you are using a complete certified system with the Orinoco AP? (radio, pigtail, enclosure, cables, antenna) Just for all our comfort, can you provide the FCC IDs on the gear you are using? -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some certified designs? WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project. How can we WISPS as an industry just blatantly defy the rules. Because they are silly doesn't void them, nor does it give us the authorization to ignore them. Does someone need to get fined and made an example of? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment I suppose you are using a complete certified system with the Orinoco AP? (radio, pigtail, enclosure, cables, antenna) Just for all our comfort, can you provide the FCC IDs on the gear you are using? -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Ralph wrote: The Orinoco AP series was a really rock solid radio. I still have many that are trucking along! And you REALLY should be looking at using legal equipment- especially if you are in this as a business! I suppose you are using a complete certified system with the Orinoco AP? (radio, pigtail, enclosure, cables, antenna) Just for all our comfort, can you provide the FCC IDs on the gear you are using? -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
Luke Pack wrote: We were looking into a solution here... we had an Orinoco AP-1000 and that got blown, so we replaced it with a Mikrotik with an SR2 card. The Mikrotik cannot come near to the quality of the Orinoco. This has actually happened before on another tower with all known good equipment. I have people not on the tower, and those who are, have much worse signals. The Mikrotik is set to auto, with regulatory domain as United States. Tx power is at default. Anyone know what the problem could be? This may be an unpopular opinion in some parts, but I've never had the best of luck with Mikrotik's software as an access point - too much generally odd behaviour like what you're describing. I love their software for weird routing and firewalling tasks, and have a lot of their hardware deployed (much of running non-Mikrotik software), but it seems to make for a lousy AP. As has previously been mentioned, if you can still find a RouterBoard 200, they have PCMCIA slots. (You may also want to look into other software for it. The RB200 is a standard x86 board; you can install, say, StarOS on a flash card and probably get the results you need.) If you want to get really really fancy, get a Soekris 5501 and case, and a PCI-to-PCMCIA adapter. That way the card slides right into the top of the case so it even LOOKS like an AP-1000. :) Consider also experimenting a bit with the radio card you use. The CM-9 doesn't have as much raw naked power as the SR2, but it has slightly better receive sensitivity. More important, it just "feels" more reliable. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
I believe the Mikrotik RouterBoard 200's will take PCMCIA cards, allowing use of the Orinoco cards. They're getting hard to find, but they are still around. Thanks, Russ Kreigh Network Engineer OnlyInternet.Net Broadband & Wireless Supernova Technologies Office: (800) 363-0989 Direct: (260) 827-2486 Fax:(260) 824-9624 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oibw.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Luke Pack Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:13 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment We were looking into a solution here... we had an Orinoco AP-1000 and that got blown, so we replaced it with a Mikrotik with an SR2 card. The Mikrotik cannot come near to the quality of the Orinoco. This has actually happened before on another tower with all known good equipment. I have people not on the tower, and those who are, have much worse signals. The Mikrotik is set to auto, with regulatory domain as United States. Tx power is at default. Anyone know what the problem could be? Regards, Luke Pack ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
The Orinoco AP series was a really rock solid radio. I still have many that are trucking along! I sure wish they were still around (as who they really were- not Proxim). And you REALLY should be looking at using legal equipment- especially if you are in this as a business! MT based access points are not legal in the US unless you have sent them to the lab and received FCC Part 15 type acceptance on your assembled unit. There are plenty of manufacturers who do make certified gear and those folks are the ones who follow the FCC rules and should be supported. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Luke Pack Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:13 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment We were looking into a solution here... we had an Orinoco AP-1000 and that got blown, so we replaced it with a Mikrotik with an SR2 card. The Mikrotik cannot come near to the quality of the Orinoco. This has actually happened before on another tower with all known good equipment. I have people not on the tower, and those who are, have much worse signals. The Mikrotik is set to auto, with regulatory domain as United States. Tx power is at default. Anyone know what the problem could be? Regards, Luke Pack ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
