John speaks so much better than I do. Good thing he's of the same mindset
as myself.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
There are problems with the current rules which if followed to the letter
of the law will lead to stifling innovation and backward behavior by
operators.
If Alvarion were to certify the Gabriel antenna with the B-100 then I
would no longer be a criminal. That makes sense? I don't think so.
Hey I guess I am nothing but a cowboy for using my $6K pair of Alvarion
B-100 radios with my $1K pair of (already installed and aimed) Gabriel
antennas? I guess there is no rationale for me to want to use a pair of
the best parabolic antennas I have ever seen with installed radomes,
machined mounting hardware, spun aluminum dish, etc. which were already
aimed in place and in use with my previous FCC certified $10K EX-1 radio
system. Using a better antenna already aimed makes me a criminal.
I guess there are people here who do not think a company like Gabriel or
any other antenna manufacturer should be able to sell their antennas
unless they can talk a radio manufacturer like Alvarion or Motorola or
somebody else into including their antenna models in their FCC certs? How
is this fair?
Should Andrews or Pac Wireless have to beg the radio guys to use their
antennas in their certs to keep people from bashing their customers for
being renegade cowboys who shirk the law? Should makers of single board
computers be denied the right to sell their computing platforms to WISPs
who wish to build quality systems using their platform to carry their
favorite system management / routing / firewall / bandwidth shaping /
captive portal / AP software? Is that fair? How is that any different than
the FCC's recent allowance for any radio card to be installed into any
laptop or desktop platform? Why is it that our SBCs running Linux are
making us lawbreakers while the Dell laptops running Windows, or Linux,
can install any radio modules they wish? Maybe we should start building
APs out of old Del laptops since they have more regulatory leniency than
our computing platforms. They get component level mix and match but the
operators do not? Joe Blow on the street can mix and match any radio with
any computer with any software but we cannot? What gives? We are only
asking for what the PC industry has been granted with one more revision
and that is that antennas be allowed to be mix and match also provided
that EIRP and OOB rules are not broken. Why is it that asking for these
things makes us criminals?
Is it right for makers of radio modules to be forced to spend millions of
dollars and wait for months of testing to allow their radio modules to be
placed into a variety of SBCs using hundreds of antenna combinations with
different software platforms or face being called a bunch of law breaking
thugs? Telling WISPs who like having thousands of combinations to choose
from that they are criminals and not giving them the right to at least
consider some form of rational lobbying for better rules is NOT what we
are about. We are NOT telling people to break the law. We DO acknowledge
that the law has problems and we want to help fix those problems. If that
makes us renegade cowboys then I will wear the badge with pride.
There is merit to seeing some relaxation of the rules to either allow for
a certified component rule where radios, SBCs, software and antennas can
be assembled into systems which meet the rules or where an operator's
license allows people to self-certify a system that meets the rules.
WISPA is NOT about seeing how to justify breaking the law. It is about
making sure the law does not break us.
John Scrivner
Marty Dougherty wrote:
Well once again I am going to make a statement- I have promised to be
"gone" from here- and I basically am- But I check in once in a while and
the AP1000 thread caught my eye- We have a lot of Ap2000's from YDI (30
or 40)- yes- all legal and purchased as a system from YDI. We have not
bought any other wifi and don't deploy it anymore and we don't mix and
match. As amps etc fail (or start leaking) we use our decommissioned
stock. Hopefully we will have all of them out of the network some day.
Anyhow, once again the thread goes back to the same subject- Operating
legally and the back and forth pissing about this.
I will tell you all that for SURE you will never get a large scale WISP
to join, support and contribute to WISPA because of this issue. WISPA
will always be a collection of renegades and small time operators who
are known in the industry as "do what you want/need rule breakers".
More and more of you want to operate with licensed spectrum. At the same
time, the Clearwires and Tower Streams are starting to use unlicensed as
well- What is the difference between them and the typical WISP? The
lines are blending even more now and it will be harder to explain to the
"industry and the FCC" why WISP's want to operate this way but the
"grown ups" can follow the rules?
Ask yourself why companies like
http://netbnr.net/loc.html?http://www.wcai.com/about_us.htm are not
joining and contributing to WISPA? I joined with the intention of
helping our industry but was almost immediately nailed with this whole
legal operator issue when I spoke up. Not many of us are willing to do
anything with WISPA until that position changes and it has to be at the
EXEC BOARD level. It's very obvious to all that the board does not want
to address the issue under the current rules.
Save all the usual BS attacks for someone else-they don't bother me and
they wont change a thing for WISPA and only serve to drive more
operators away....
Marty Dougherty
CEO
Roadstar Internet Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of JohnnyO
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
Ralph - I do believe Butch has a valid point here. If you are using an
"Orinoco" AP with your own DIY setup (sounds like you are) - I hardly
think you're legal. So why does the pot call the kettle black in this or
any
other instance ?
JohnnyO
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 7:03 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment
Yep, and addition to being fully FCC Part 15 certified, I plugged it in
with a UL approved Power cord too :-P I don't need to justify legality
to allow someone to rationalize illegality. Sorry
As well known as you are to Mikrotik Butch (even I was about to hire you
for some MT Router work), why don't you encourage MT to make some
certified designs?
WISPA's wish for a do it yourself palette of devices to cobble together
and be certified is a pipe dream. The FCC doesn't work like that. If
they did, then Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, and the others would already
have do-it-yourself commercial radio kits. And you'd be able to go to
Radio Shack and buy a kit to build a microwave oven project.
How can we WISPS as an industry just blatantly defy the rules. Because
they are silly doesn't void them, nor does it give us the authorization
to ignore them. Does someone need to get fined and made an example of?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 5:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Mikrotik as an Orinoco AP-1000 Replacment <snip> I
suppose you are using a complete certified system with the Orinoco AP?
(radio, pigtail, enclosure, cables, antenna) Just for all our comfort,
can you provide the FCC IDs on the gear you are using? <snip>
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**
** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com **
** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT **
** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **
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