Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
Yes we still have the right, even if it seems to make no difference. Up until the family farm kids working debacle, I thought no common sense existed, now I know 25% must exist for it got stopped. How it ever saw the light of day is still a mystery and doesn't give me any hope for any government management. -- Original Message -- From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists jeffl...@att.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 09:27:00 -0400 I agree Faisal! As much as we may not like the way our government runs things, we have the right to petition, to protest, and ultimately, the ballot box. My hat is off to people who are able to make things work under MUCH more difficult circumstances! Regards, Jeff Sales Manager, Blue Technology 574-935-8484 x106 (US/Can) 574-220-7826 (Cell) +1 574-935-8484 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 9:12 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. E se. Akinlolu. Short, sweet, to the point... spoken by a person who is operating in an Environment that makes our Environment look like a walk in the park ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 5/4/2012 2:27 AM, Akinlolu C. Ajayi-Obe wrote: This list is fun. WISPA is doing a great job. In Nigeria where I operate our association is not doing enough to protect uss. Its not even making bad decisions. To renew your license is really hard - easier to get a new one. I could go on and on. Members should be grateful and either accept what they get or join the management and effect change. Akinlolu C. Ajayi-Obe +234(0)8023258027 -Original Message- From: Josh Luthmanj...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 21:13:53 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org;fai...@snappydsl.net Reply-To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
This list is fun. WISPA is doing a great job. In Nigeria where I operate our association is not doing enough to protect uss. Its not even making bad decisions. To renew your license is really hard - easier to get a new one. I could go on and on. Members should be grateful and either accept what they get or join the management and effect change. Akinlolu C. Ajayi-Obe +234(0)8023258027 -Original Message- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 21:13:53 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org; fai...@snappydsl.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
+1 Victoria Proffer STLWiMAX, LLC 314-720-1000 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Fred Goldstein Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. At 5/3/2012 08:41 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Personally I don't think there is hardly anyone on the WISPA list that is in disagreement over having the same views as Mark from the political standpoint.. The radical difference is over how to deal with it ... Well, I may disagree with Mark and some other members of the list on many political points, but I don't let that get in the way of our mutual interests. You can disagree without being disagreeable, and concentrate on collaborating on your mutual interests. I even disagree on some of the positions WISPA apparently took. I think ARRA was a good program, just too small, though BIP itself was basically a boondoggle. But a WISP I'm hoping to get going soon is dependent on BTOP middle mile fiber, as are some other projects I'm aware of, as is one local government project I'm now working on. In some states it's a real game changer. (And yeah, in some it's turning out to be a disaster, but that's a different story.) But the key point is that no matter how you feel about the way the game is being played in Washington, either you participate, or you should stop complaining about it. For the average person, participation is as easy as voting; for a business in a regulated industry, it may involve a lot more. Things used to work better there in the past when both sides could sit down and negotiate their differences, trading off with each other until the best compromise could be met. People who believe that compromise is inherenty bad are preventing progress, and they aren't making things better for their side either. Likewise, all of that government is always the problem talk is not realistic. There are all sorts of things that you need government to do, from enforcing contracts (lest you need a mafia take over that role, as happened in Russia in the 1990s), to building public infrastructure, to keeping the food and water safe. You don't miss the water until the well runs dry; if you don't want government, try Somalia. If you don't agree with our government, then at least try to make yourself heard. Even if it is so corrupted by big money that it sometimes feels like a waste of time. Reclaim democracy, don't surrender it. WISPA has done great things in representing the industry. Things could certainly be worse. The FCC has waged a War on ISPs for the past 11 years. It has killed off most of the wireline ISPs, most of whom were also small businesspeople playing by the rules. Some have survived by going wireless, others by being really really good at what they do and keeping their niche markets alive, but it hasn't been easy. Had the rest of the small-ISP industry organized itself a quarter as well as WISPA has, then things might have come out a lot differently for them. Not that CLECs have done so well either, though frankly I think they were largely collateral damage, because ISPs depended on them. Now the FCC has opened up the question of whether and how WISPs and other ISPs should pay into the Universal Service Fund. So again the fact that this group is organized should come in handy. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
+1 Thank you Fred, that was very well put! Brough Turner netBlazr Inc. -- Free your Broadband! Mobile:617-285-0433 Skype:brough netBlazr Inc. http://www.netblazr.com/| Google+ https://plus.google.com/102447512447094746687/posts?hl=en | Twitter https://twitter.com/#%21/brough | LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/broughturner | Facebook http://www.facebook.com/brough.turner | Blog http://blogs.broughturner.com/ | Personal website http://broughturner.com/ On 5/3/12 9:23 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote: At 5/3/2012 08:41 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Personally I don't think there is hardly anyone on the WISPA list that is in disagreement over having the same views as Mark from the political standpoint.. The radical difference is over how to deal with it ... Well, I may disagree with Mark and some other members of the list on many political points, but I don't let that get in the way of our mutual interests. You can disagree without being disagreeable, and concentrate on collaborating on your mutual interests. I even disagree on some of the positions WISPA apparently took. I think ARRA was a good program, just too small, though BIP itself was basically a boondoggle. But a WISP I'm hoping to get going soon is dependent on BTOP middle mile fiber, as are some other projects I'm aware of, as is one local government project I'm now working on. In some states it's a real game changer. (And yeah, in some it's turning out to be a disaster, but that's a different story.) But the key point is that no matter how you feel about the way the game is being played in Washington, either you participate, or you should stop complaining about it. For the average person, participation is as easy as voting; for a business in a regulated industry, it may involve a lot more. Things used to work better there in the past when both sides could sit down and negotiate their differences, trading off with each other until the best compromise could be met. People who believe that compromise is inherenty bad are preventing progress, and they aren't making things better for their side either. Likewise, all of that government is always the problem talk is not realistic. There are all sorts of things that you need government to do, from enforcing contracts (lest you need a mafia take over that role, as happened in Russia in the 1990s), to building public infrastructure, to keeping the food and water safe. You don't miss the water until the well runs dry; if you don't want government, try Somalia. If you don't agree with our government, then at least try to make yourself heard. Even if it is so corrupted by big money that it sometimes feels like a waste of time. Reclaim democracy, don't surrender it. WISPA has done great things in representing the industry. Things could certainly be worse. The FCC has waged a War on ISPs for the past 11 years. It has killed off most of the wireline ISPs, most of whom were also small businesspeople playing by the rules. Some have survived by going wireless, others by being really really good at what they do and keeping their niche markets alive, but it hasn't been easy. Had the rest of the small-ISP industry organized itself a quarter as well as WISPA has, then things might have come out a lot differently for them. Not that CLECs have done so well either, though frankly I think they were largely collateral damage, because ISPs depended on them. Now the FCC has opened up the question of whether and how WISPs and other ISPs should pay into the Universal Service Fund. So again the fact that this group is organized should come in handy. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Thanks, Brough Brough Turner netBlazr Inc. -- Free your Broadband! Mobile:617-285-0433 Skype:brough netBlazr Inc. http://www.netblazr.com/| Google+ https://plus.google.com/102447512447094746687/posts?hl=en | Twitter https://twitter.com/#%21/brough | LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/broughturner | Facebook http://www.facebook.com/brough.turner | Blog http://blogs.broughturner.com/ | Personal website http://broughturner.com/ ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
E se. Akinlolu. Short, sweet, to the point... spoken by a person who is operating in an Environment that makes our Environment look like a walk in the park ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 5/4/2012 2:27 AM, Akinlolu C. Ajayi-Obe wrote: This list is fun. WISPA is doing a great job. In Nigeria where I operate our association is not doing enough to protect uss. Its not even making bad decisions. To renew your license is really hard - easier to get a new one. I could go on and on. Members should be grateful and either accept what they get or join the management and effect change. Akinlolu C. Ajayi-Obe +234(0)8023258027 -Original Message- From: Josh Luthmanj...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 21:13:53 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org;fai...@snappydsl.net Reply-To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
I agree Faisal! As much as we may not like the way our government runs things, we have the right to petition, to protest, and ultimately, the ballot box. My hat is off to people who are able to make things work under MUCH more difficult circumstances! Regards, Jeff Sales Manager, Blue Technology 574-935-8484 x106 (US/Can) 574-220-7826 (Cell) +1 574-935-8484 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 9:12 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. E se. Akinlolu. Short, sweet, to the point... spoken by a person who is operating in an Environment that makes our Environment look like a walk in the park ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 5/4/2012 2:27 AM, Akinlolu C. Ajayi-Obe wrote: This list is fun. WISPA is doing a great job. In Nigeria where I operate our association is not doing enough to protect uss. Its not even making bad decisions. To renew your license is really hard - easier to get a new one. I could go on and on. Members should be grateful and either accept what they get or join the management and effect change. Akinlolu C. Ajayi-Obe +234(0)8023258027 -Original Message- From: Josh Luthmanj...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 21:13:53 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org;fai...@snappydsl.net Reply-To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
Mark, There is the world we'd like and then there is the world that we have. You may have the luxury of ignoring the world we have, but WISPA is a trade organization that represents people who have to live in it and run their businesses. Whether you or I like it or not, the WISP industry operates in spectrum that belongs to the people.and their government. The government has chosen to allow the FCC to be the primary decision maker about how and if spectrum is allocated. Before WISPA, there really was no voice for WISPs at the FCC (unless you count Mike Anderson and Part 15). WISPA has become a VERY effective advocate for WISPs at the FCC and to the various government entities. Jack and Forbes, along with Rini/Coran have made huge progress. We've received invaluable support from our membership in this effort. We are meeting later this month in DC with a number of our members, to talk to elected and appointed officials. They know who we are, who we represent, and they want to know what we think of various policy options. Before WISPA, they pretty much just heard from the big carriers. Have there been mis-steps? Sure. We work to minimize those and to maximize the benefit to ALL WISPs, particularly our membership. I've known you for a long time, and I like you and admire your passion. We share a lot of similar philosophies. In my opinion, you've crossed the line here. You are using WISPA assets (mailing list) to trash WISPA. If you have an issue with WISPA; go away completely; or jump in, join, and run for the Board. Taking semi-annual pot-shots at the organization.on our mailing lists, is not the right way to do things. Regards, Jeff Sales Manager, Blue Technology 574-935-8484 x106 (US/Can) 574-220-7826 (Cell) +1 574-935-8484 (Int'l) _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:10 AM To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. I knew I could count on you to demonstrate complete ignorance of What Should Be, Because It Once Was. The founders would curse you for having no understanding. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ I really think you seriously need to read about our founding fathers, and how they operated, (they all did not get together and sing kumbaya at the camp fire, neither did they pickup their scrolls of paper and walk away to their own corners when there was disagreement )...and try to gain an understanding on the 'Democratic Principles of Government' on how they function and operate. You seem to be totally missing the last 2 thirds of the 'for the people, of the people and by the people' , and yes it is precisely because of thinking like yours (suggested in your own words), that the Great French Philosophers of their time, said that the US Constitution / way of Governing is never going to work, and it is doomed for failure When asked why ? The response was .. 'Simple. common people are not interested in participating in the Governing process'. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
Mark, Enough is enough. There is no reason that I know of for your behavior especially attacking the opinion of someone else online. Faisal is one of the most intelligent ISP veterans in the industry and he does not deserve to be called ignorant by someone that has thumbed their nose at WISPA for many years. I have sat back and allowed you to spout off occasionally with extreme patience. There have been times that I have had to boot you from the WISPA mailing lists and you have come back under a different email address, lurked and then repeated your rabid behavior. I think it is rude that a person comes into someone's house and complain about their lazyboy, food, and hospitality. That is effectively what you have done to WISPA. We invite you into our home to learn and improve your business by networking with other operators in our industry and how do you repay that? Turning over the Lazy-boy, spitting in the food and demanding service, with no intention of paying for the service or tipping the hostess is not my idea of worthiness. I have noticed over the years, that somewhere in your dissertations, you always refer to your depleted financial condition and tend to accuse WISPA for your struggling business. I'm not sure if the area you serve is economically challenged, the geography is tough to operate in or you are just not a good businessman. I do however think that if it were not for some of the proactive and reactive lobbying efforts that WISPA has accomplished in the last few years, that many operators would be out of business by now. The telcos/cable duopoly would have had their way in Congress and at the FCC to run wild with their agenda to put the Wisp industry out of business through legislation. Therefore, I am going to put you on moderation. I will allow you to continue to receive emails from the wireless@wispa.org mailing list but your responses will need to be governed. Something I'm sure you hate me for, but as the moderator, it is my job to maintain proper decorum and provide a healthy environment for other wisp operators to learn in. I have been asked by numerous people to ban you from WISPA lists, but I am not going to do that yet. I only hope that you can learn something from other operators that will improve your business, regardless of whether you would ever support or efforts here at WISPA. I wish you good fortune in the future and only hope that in some way, you can accept that WISPA may have helped you even without your financial support. We are operators just like yourself. Many of us struggle to make ends meet in this very tough economy. I agree with you that the government policies over the last 20-30 years have been disastrous for our economy. This is not a political statement in any way. Policies which have created dominant corporations in any industry have caused small town America to wither on the vine. Greed in politics and corporate America has been the dominant reason for our economy decline. There is little dispute of that. We need a new direction and new leadership inside the beltway. Unfortunately, I don't personally feel that any change can be accomplished effectively without some major housecleaning of the monstrous Washington DC governing infrastructure to which all new politicians are introduced quickly. Their intentions may be great before they arrive in Washington, only to be cut off at the knees by the system and its lifetime staffers. http://www.wispa.org/where-there-is-a-wisp-there-is-a-way Where there is a Wisp, there is a way! Respectfully, Rick Harnish Executive Director WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 Option 2 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org adm...@wispa.org (Trina and Rick) From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:10 AM To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. I knew I could count on you to demonstrate complete ignorance of What Should Be, Because It Once Was. The founders would curse you for having no understanding. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ I really think you seriously need to read about our founding fathers, and how they operated, (they all did not get together and sing kumbaya at the camp fire, neither did they pickup their scrolls of paper and walk away to their own corners when there was disagreement )...and try to gain an understanding on the 'Democratic Principles of Government' on how they function and operate. You seem to be totally missing the last 2 thirds of the 'for the people, of the people and by the people' , and yes it is precisely because of thinking like yours (suggested in your own words), that the Great French Philosophers of their time, said that the US
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
It's pure hypocrisy to say you gotta live with the system. No, you don't. You have the freedom to still say no. You have the freedom to NOT take CRP or RUS loans, or look for ways to get USF funding, for instance. You see, we DO agree Mark. I've not taken any government money. None. My familie's farm does, but that's not me, I'm not a share holder in any way. The difference between us is that I'm willing to put my time and effort where my mouth is. Not just whine about it and through darts at everyone else. I helped start WISPA. I put my own money and thousands (not an exaturation in any way) of hours of my own time into the effort. I'm currently involved with our CALEA, FCC, Disaster and legislative committees. I've been on the board of directors twice. Well three times if you'd like to count the initial self appointed board instead of just the duely elected ones. You sit here and won't even join the association. So you don't know both sides of the issues. You only know the final result. You don't know when we tell the FBI that what they are asking for in CALEA is either none of their business or technically/financially impractical. You've not been to the FCC where we've been able to discuss, freely, our concerns with rules that exist or are proposed. It's been those trips that have resulted in hundreds of new mhz of spectrum that's open for us to use. We've got more flexibility in certification rules. We've gotten most of what we wanted out of the TV whitespaces spectrum. We've had changes in laws or proposed laws that went from vastly against us to neutral or for us. WISPA tried to stop the ARRA. We told the government that doing nothing would be better for the country than what they wanted to do. WISPA told the FCC that the best thing they could do is eliminate USF, not excpand or change it. But we also knew that they were not going to listen to us. So the only option left was to try to make changes to the programs that either didn't hurt us or actually helped us. What effort did you make? Here's the funny part Mark. I really shouldn't even bother trying to explain this to you. You see, you are a non participant. You don't join, you don't vote, you don't help etc. Because of your non participation you also don't matter. You'll forever be stuck, living with whatever the rest of us can manage to do to make life less painful. Can we eliminate the pain? Nope. Not today. But at least we're WORKING to make any changes we can. Step up to the plate Mark. Join WISPA. Participate. Be a part of the 20% of the 80/20 rule. Not just one of those victims of the system. You can't change the system from the outside in. You have to get inside to cut out the cancer. Heck, even a faith healer focuses his energy to the inside! It won't work for him to tell the cancer to go away anymore than it'll work to just complain about the cancer. But at least his focus is in the right place! He's trying something that won't work, but at least he's working for a solution. Work with us for solutions that you want. Work with us for the least damage. Be a part of the solution not just a whiny spectator. Mark, believe it or not I like you. We've met eyeball to eyeball. I know your heart is in the right place. We agree with what the end result should be. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: MDK To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. There was a time, Marlon, when I would have agreed with you. Except that I've been paying attention for a quite a few years... compromise is what got us to this. Not galloping, leaps and bounds, unhindered statism, but the exact compromise you are talking about - it ALWAYS goes in one direction. The only compromise has been how far and how much. It's the ratchet effect. Sometimes not moving, but NEVER going in the right direction. It has found its way into every detail of every thing. So, no, no more compromising. I'm done. It's now REVERSE. Not compromise on not as much more but, NO MORE, and NOW LESS. And if you're (WISPA) not actively acting to accomplish that, then it's actively hindering that action. It's on the wrong side. It's like travelling a road. You're going to go one way... Or the other. There isn't a compromise, if you're not going north, you're going south, if you're not going east, you're going west, and there is no such thing as standing still without being pointed in some direction. You say that you alone can't do anything.That I can't. I agree. But it has to start...somewhere. If Uncle Sam came running, handing me free money I would not take it - and I, personally, have never been personally in as precarious financially as I am now, with no assurance I'll even have a home from one week to the next. It's called principle, Marlon. I have no right
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
Very nicely said Rick. Great job. marlon - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 7:16 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. Mark, Enough is enough. There is no reason that I know of for your behavior especially attacking the opinion of someone else online. Faisal is one of the most intelligent ISP veterans in the industry and he does not deserve to be called ignorant by someone that has thumbed their nose at WISPA for many years. I have sat back and allowed you to spout off occasionally with extreme patience. There have been times that I have had to boot you from the WISPA mailing lists and you have come back under a different email address, lurked and then repeated your rabid behavior. I think it is rude that a person comes into someone's house and complain about their lazyboy, food, and hospitality. That is effectively what you have done to WISPA. We invite you into our home to learn and improve your business by networking with other operators in our industry and how do you repay that? Turning over the Lazy-boy, spitting in the food and demanding service, with no intention of paying for the service or tipping the hostess is not my idea of worthiness. I have noticed over the years, that somewhere in your dissertations, you always refer to your depleted financial condition and tend to accuse WISPA for your struggling business. I'm not sure if the area you serve is economically challenged, the geography is tough to operate in or you are just not a good businessman. I do however think that if it were not for some of the proactive and reactive lobbying efforts that WISPA has accomplished in the last few years, that many operators would be out of business by now. The telcos/cable duopoly would have had their way in Congress and at the FCC to run wild with their agenda to put the Wisp industry out of business through legislation. Therefore, I am going to put you on moderation. I will allow you to continue to receive emails from the wireless@wispa.org mailing list but your responses will need to be governed. Something I'm sure you hate me for, but as the moderator, it is my job to maintain proper decorum and provide a healthy environment for other wisp operators to learn in. I have been asked by numerous people to ban you from WISPA lists, but I am not going to do that yet. I only hope that you can learn something from other operators that will improve your business, regardless of whether you would ever support or efforts here at WISPA. I wish you good fortune in the future and only hope that in some way, you can accept that WISPA may have helped you even without your financial support. We are operators just like yourself. Many of us struggle to make ends meet in this very tough economy. I agree with you that the government policies over the last 20-30 years have been disastrous for our economy. This is not a political statement in any way. Policies which have created dominant corporations in any industry have caused small town America to wither on the vine. Greed in politics and corporate America has been the dominant reason for our economy decline. There is little dispute of that. We need a new direction and new leadership inside the beltway. Unfortunately, I don't personally feel that any change can be accomplished effectively without some major housecleaning of the monstrous Washington DC governing infrastructure to which all new politicians are introduced quickly. Their intentions may be great before they arrive in Washington, only to be cut off at the knees by the system and its lifetime staffers. Where there is a Wisp, there is a way! Respectfully, Rick Harnish Executive Director WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 Option 2 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org adm...@wispa.org (Trina and Rick) From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:10 AM To: fai...@snappydsl.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. I knew I could count on you to demonstrate complete ignorance of What Should Be, Because It Once Was. The founders would curse you for having no understanding. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ I really think you seriously need to read about our founding fathers, and how they operated, (they all did not get together and sing kumbaya at the camp fire, neither did they pickup their scrolls of paper and walk away to their own corners when there was disagreement )...and try to gain an understanding on the 'Democratic Principles
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 09:12 -0700, Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181) wrote: Very nicely said Rick. Great job. Indeed. I was just gonna call him an idiot and explain why I felt that way. What is REALLY strange, is that from a political standpoint, I almost 100% agree. The difference, though, is that I don't think burying our head in the sand will FIX the problems in Washington (as he seems to believe). Rick is MUCH more dignified in his response. FWIW, I thought his last and final post to the WISPA lists happened over a year or two ago when he left in a huff THAT time. -- * Butch Evans* Professional Network Consultation * * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!* * NOTE THE NEW PHONE NUMBER: 702-537-0979 * ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
After I read his rant there was only one word that came to my mind.. ---Original Message--- From: Butch Evans Date: 5/3/2012 6:27:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 09:12 -0700, Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181) wrote: Very nicely said Rick. Great job. Indeed. I was just gonna call him an idiot and explain why I felt that way. What is REALLY strange, is that from a political standpoint, I almost 100% agree. The difference, though, is that I don't think burying our head in the sand will FIX the problems in Washington (as he seems to believe). Rick is MUCH more dignified in his response. FWIW, I thought his last and final post to the WISPA lists happened over a year or two ago when he left in a huff THAT time. -- * Butch Evans* Professional Network Consultation * * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!* * NOTE THE NEW PHONE NUMBER: 702-537-0979 * ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessinline: 110109whatever.gifinline: happy.gif___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 19:27 -0500, Butch Evans wrote: Indeed. CRAP! I intended this to be OFFLIST. Please forgive this error. -- * Butch Evans* Professional Network Consultation * * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!* * NOTE THE NEW PHONE NUMBER: 702-537-0979 * ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
Personally I don't think there is hardly anyone on the WISPA list that is in disagreement over having the same views as Mark from the political standpoint.. The radical difference is over how to deal with it ... :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 5/3/2012 8:27 PM, Butch Evans wrote: On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 09:12 -0700, Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181) wrote: Very nicely said Rick. Great job. Indeed. I was just gonna call him an idiot and explain why I felt that way. What is REALLY strange, is that from a political standpoint, I almost 100% agree. The difference, though, is that I don't think burying our head in the sand will FIX the problems in Washington (as he seems to believe). Rick is MUCH more dignified in his response. FWIW, I thought his last and final post to the WISPA lists happened over a year or two ago when he left in a huff THAT time. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
+1 LOL ! Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 5/3/2012 8:29 PM, Doug Clark wrote: After I read his rant there was only one word that came to my mind.. ---Original Message--- From: Butch Evans Date: 5/3/2012 6:27:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 09:12 -0700, Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181) wrote: Very nicely said Rick.Great job. Indeed.I was just gonna call him an idiot and explain why I felt that way.What is REALLY strange, is that from a political standpoint, I almost 100% agree.The difference, though, is that I don't think burying our head in the sand will FIX the problems in Washington (as he seems to believe). Rick is MUCH more dignified in his response.FWIW, I thought his "last and final post to the WISPA lists" happened over a year or two ago when he left in a huff THAT time. -- * Butch Evans* Professional Network Consultation * * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/ * Wired or Wireless Networks* * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!* *NOTE THE NEW PHONE NUMBER: 702-537-0979 * ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
Why can't be friends, why can't we be friends... Oh well it proves we are people! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On May 3, 2012 8:42 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: +1 LOL ! Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 5/3/2012 8:29 PM, Doug Clark wrote: After I read his rant there was only one word that came to my mind.. *---Original Message---* *From:* Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com *Date:* 5/3/2012 6:27:33 PM *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 09:12 -0700, Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181) wrote: Very nicely said Rick. Great job. Indeed. I was just gonna call him an idiot and explain why I felt that way. What is REALLY strange, is that from a political standpoint, I almost 100% agree. The difference, though, is that I don't think burying our head in the sand will FIX the problems in Washington (as he seems to believe). Rick is MUCH more dignified in his response. FWIW, I thought his last and final post to the WISPA lists happened over a year or two ago when he left in a huff THAT time. -- * Butch Evans* Professional Network Consultation * * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!* * NOTE THE NEW PHONE NUMBER: 702-537-0979 * ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing listWireless@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless inline: ATT2inline: ATT1___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
At 5/3/2012 08:41 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Personally I don't think there is hardly anyone on the WISPA list that is in disagreement over having the same views as Mark from the political standpoint.. The radical difference is over how to deal with it ... Well, I may disagree with Mark and some other members of the list on many political points, but I don't let that get in the way of our mutual interests. You can disagree without being disagreeable, and concentrate on collaborating on your mutual interests. I even disagree on some of the positions WISPA apparently took. I think ARRA was a good program, just too small, though BIP itself was basically a boondoggle. But a WISP I'm hoping to get going soon is dependent on BTOP middle mile fiber, as are some other projects I'm aware of, as is one local government project I'm now working on. In some states it's a real game changer. (And yeah, in some it's turning out to be a disaster, but that's a different story.) But the key point is that no matter how you feel about the way the game is being played in Washington, either you participate, or you should stop complaining about it. For the average person, participation is as easy as voting; for a business in a regulated industry, it may involve a lot more. Things used to work better there in the past when both sides could sit down and negotiate their differences, trading off with each other until the best compromise could be met. People who believe that compromise is inherenty bad are preventing progress, and they aren't making things better for their side either. Likewise, all of that government is always the problem talk is not realistic. There are all sorts of things that you need government to do, from enforcing contracts (lest you need a mafia take over that role, as happened in Russia in the 1990s), to building public infrastructure, to keeping the food and water safe. You don't miss the water until the well runs dry; if you don't want government, try Somalia. If you don't agree with our government, then at least try to make yourself heard. Even if it is so corrupted by big money that it sometimes feels like a waste of time. Reclaim democracy, don't surrender it. WISPA has done great things in representing the industry. Things could certainly be worse. The FCC has waged a War on ISPs for the past 11 years. It has killed off most of the wireline ISPs, most of whom were also small businesspeople playing by the rules. Some have survived by going wireless, others by being really really good at what they do and keeping their niche markets alive, but it hasn't been easy. Had the rest of the small-ISP industry organized itself a quarter as well as WISPA has, then things might have come out a lot differently for them. Not that CLECs have done so well either, though frankly I think they were largely collateral damage, because ISPs depended on them. Now the FCC has opened up the question of whether and how WISPs and other ISPs should pay into the Universal Service Fund. So again the fact that this group is organized should come in handy. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
+1 --Eric Roth Network Engineer Webjogger Internet Services (845) 757-4000 www.webjogger.net From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 5:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. As the anniversary of my full 8th year actively in the wireless internet business is here, I decided to make some comments. My interest in wireless internet, and actual efforts to actually start doing it are now 14 years old. Yes, really, it was that long ago. And I'm feeling much older these days. My first internet venture failed quite spectacularly. I think I made every mistake one could make, and didn't learn every lesson there was to learn, either. But it did help, as I did not repeat a bunch of things that were fatal. The most important one was to not start with vastly larger bills than your revenue. Growth doesn't always come in rapid fashion. And there's a cost to all growth. Know before you make that leap, what the consequences will be. Over the last few years, I've been known to get what some people call political. Perhaps it is, I say it isn't. It's just common sense business principles. It was one of my first lessons - learn how to preserve your future flexibility, because THINGS CHANGE. That, too, was one of my first mistakes. I had no alternatives, really, to travelling down the road I started on, which was a seriously bad mistake. That ability to be flexible, to violate the rules of internet by wire, is what created the WISP business in the first place, and yet, it's one of the things that's been done the most damage to, and faces the largest threats in the future. This post is probably my last, as it concerns things WISPA. I have given up on WISPA completely. Mostly for the reasons above. While WISPA was being formed, I had the self-generated illusion that fellow WISPS's would be all about getting, expanding, and maintaining the freedom to be in business. We're notorious for being rogues, cowboys, unconventional, and extremely individualistic. It would have never occurred to me that one or more founders of WISPA would go to the FCC and tell them that they should create reporting mandates and then encourage regulation of our industry. My shock when I learned that was a kind of rock your world kind of thing. And anger. Serious anger. How dare people undertake to put us under the thumb of the utterly incompetent idiots in Washington DC? If you want to live that way, go live some place like that, don't undertake to force it upon me. That's the essence of the American attitude, history, and the very thing that built this country. Over the years, I've come to realize that unlike me, few of our industry have any such lesson learned. The idea of getting free money or loans or other favors in the form of money from government or government actions has lured them into becoming just another faction of the crony capitalism that has all but destroyed our nation's economy, currency, and threatens to finish the job, rapid-fire. WISPA certainly doesn't seem to have any interest in telling Washington DC to go pound sand, and do what is the morally, economically, and Constitutionally right and proper thing. Leave us the HELL ALONE! Stop pretending that DC is the source of goodness, and stop pretending that they have even an IOTA of the answers for what ails the country and how to supply our needs. They do not. I won't waste your time with explanations of what I want, after all, either you're in agreement, or else your only interest is in creating false portrayals to attack me personally, calling me an anti-government nut or any of 100 other senseless phrases. Some of you I've gotten to know a bit over the years, and I have no idea if any of you are on this list anymore. Maybe someone will post this where everyone can read it if they want. Why we can't advocate for economic and business operation freedom anymore is completely beyond my comprehension. Especially since we're supposed be about business, a business which exists solely because of that amazing concept of economic and personal liberty otherwise known as capitalism - or free enterprise - take your pick. It offends too many, and those who it doesn't are too too timid to stand for what they think in the presence of the socialist bullies. It's my wish and my prayer as well, that all of you have a good life, a prosperous future, health, and happiness. But I hold out little hope, long term. Unless things change, we're all going away, our plans and enterprises massacred by the attitude that all our needs are merely a utilitarian function of government. Still, I hope the best for all - and always have and always will. Mark ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 ++
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
Since you are talking about me Mark I'll chime in here a bit too. As I've said before. You and I mostly agree. Government is, with precious few exceptions, the enemy of the people. Government and far to many that work in it are just plain evil. Or maybe arrogant but in the end that causes them to do evil things to the regular folk of the country. WISPA is an association of or membership. The members are encouraged to run for leadership positions every year (half the board is up for election every year). There is no restriction on who can run for the board other than they have to be a member in good standing. There are a few other things that we ask of our candidates but they don't generally apply to the people here (no one I know of is sitting in jail right now :-). WISPA was formed to help protect our industry. Mostly from the government. That's why we are so focused and spend most of our money on FCC and legislative issues. We've actually been pretty successful here. We've had good success on favorable rules changes, gotten additional spectrum and we've stopped quite a few bad ideas from coming to fruition. I remember getting into it with you on the idea of reporting on the 477. You called me a traitor. Perhaps that fits but I think of myself as more of a realist. The 477 is there. We can't make it go away. In fact, much to my chagrin, it's work with the stupid broadband map. Tell you what though. They ARE there. They DO exist. And your competition is going to be government funded, or not, based at least in part on what the map shows. If you refuse to place yourself on the map, that's your choice. A foolish choice that's bad for you AND the rest of the industry, but your choice to make none the less. I live in farm country. Everyone out here gets government money for something. Crop failures, CRP programs, price supports etc. It sucks. Government money is poison. But so is NO money. It's like salt in many ways. Too much will kill you just as dead as too little. Here's a current example. We have bought out some of the CRP my family has. We run off road motorbike races on the ground. Now it's up for renewal. But the Fish and Wildlife department is refusing to allow the renewal because we need a buffer zone around the track. One that's probably bigger than the 49 acres of crp will support. Dad's still looking into it. Dad's PISSED off though. He didn't enter into any contracts with Fish and Game, why are they involved with this issue at all It's ALL private property. But, since it's rented to the government we have to live by it's rules. The bike races bring 10s of thousands or dollars into our local economy. Probably closer to 100k. But that doesn't matter to the dickheads at Fish and Game. They are more worried about the fish that don't exist in the middle of a field and the game birds that might be harmed in some way. I guess birds and deer can't hear a dirt bike coming soon enough to get out of the way. Wanna know the funniest part of all this? Dad plants habitat and birds because he loves that kind of stuff. That doesn't matter to Fish and Game though. They still want the races stopped. Or he has to give up over $2500 per year in revenue from the CRP payments on that ground. More than he'd make farming it (that's the reason for CRP in the first place). So a guy is stuck. The government controls (in one way or another) the prices farmers can charge for their crops, chemical use etc. and therefore the revenue that a farmer can generate. They then offer a program that will pay the farmer more money for the use of his poor ground and set the rules for it's use (basically nothing). Then they change the rules as time goes on, making them more and more restrictive. Eventually out here people tend to eventually give up and sell the ground to the government. MOST of the water ways are now owned by the state. I could go on, but everyone here has a similar story to tell. Look at the recent thread about the idiotic OSHA rules. Who's going to let anyone put a fall restraint system on their home? If you have a habit of falling off roofs, go get a desk job! In the end though. You and I, alone, can't fix any of this. We can't control anything. We have to band together into groups. And those groups have to compromise. Those groups also have to deal with reality as it exists while they try to enact their ultimate goals. WISPA did tell the FCC to eliminate USF, CAF or any other subsidies. We told them to just let the market deal with the issues. We knew ahead of time that they'd reject that stance though. So we also suggested alternative plans and mechanisms that would do the least harm to our industry, communities and country. Your problem Mark is that you don't understand the compromise part. It's funny though, we all do it every day. We walk on different sides of the hall. We
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
make, and really, truly, stop compromising. You talk about joining and getting elected to leadership. One thing about leadership, is that if those you're leading don't want to go where you're going, you're not leading, you're just exploring space on your own. I stated as clearly as I could, that the issue here, is that the membership is NOT in agreement with me, save for probably a few. And to what end, other than acrimony, would trying to be a strident voice for certain principled things? I said in my previous post, that this isn't nearly as political as some want it to be made out to be. It's more about the realities of business, economics, and management of our own enterprises. We as a nation are incredibly ignorant about how to be the businessmen we want to be (and I put myself in that statement) , and if we learned what we should, whatever political aspects of our lives are impacted, would take care of themselves. I, too, live in a very rural area, and watch the people decry the price supports, controls, subsidies, and then engage in them, because they believe they cannot compete or succeed without them. I read two stories recently, one was of a sizeable business (assets in the billions) that was slowly going bankrupt, which was offered a loan by the federal government. But the CEO turned it down, and instead, announced impending bankruptcy. He chose to own it as failure, rather than throw good money after bad. That's integrity. Another was in the process of borrowing money from the DOE, cash that would be immensely helpful to his company. He cancelled it and announced they'll just struggle through on their own. We CAN live without being bribed, we can say no. And it's going to take millions of us saying no, but we can do it and we can turn our industries.. .and country... around it. And it's all about individuals, decisions, and principled choices - not about politics, but about rational choices about the present and future. Maybe I am asking to too much. What little optimism I have left says... I am not. But my time and energy probably best employed elsewhere. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181) Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 12:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. Since you are talking about me Mark I'll chime in here a bit too. As I've said before. You and I mostly agree. Government is, with precious few exceptions, the enemy of the people. Government and far to many that work in it are just plain evil. Or maybe arrogant but in the end that causes them to do evil things to the regular folk of the country. WISPA is an association of or membership. The members are encouraged to run for leadership positions every year (half the board is up for election every year). There is no restriction on who can run for the board other than they have to be a member in good standing. There are a few other things that we ask of our candidates but they don't generally apply to the people here (no one I know of is sitting in jail right now :-). WISPA was formed to help protect our industry. Mostly from the government. That's why we are so focused and spend most of our money on FCC and legislative issues. We've actually been pretty successful here. We've had good success on favorable rules changes, gotten additional spectrum and we've stopped quite a few bad ideas from coming to fruition. I remember getting into it with you on the idea of reporting on the 477. You called me a traitor. Perhaps that fits but I think of myself as more of a realist. The 477 is there. We can't make it go away. In fact, much to my chagrin, it's work with the stupid broadband map. Tell you what though. They ARE there. They DO exist. And your competition is going to be government funded, or not, based at least in part on what the map shows. If you refuse to place yourself on the map, that's your choice. A foolish choice that's bad for you AND the rest of the industry, but your choice to make none the less. I live in farm country. Everyone out here gets government money for something. Crop failures, CRP programs, price supports etc. It sucks. Government money is poison. But so is NO money. It's like salt in many ways. Too much will kill you just as dead as too little. Here's a current example. We have bought out some of the CRP my family has. We run off road motorbike races on the ground. Now it's up for renewal. But the Fish and Wildlife department is refusing to allow the renewal because we need a buffer zone around the track. One that's probably bigger than the 49 acres of crp will support. Dad's still looking into it. Dad's PISSED off though. He didn't enter into any contracts with Fish and Game, why are they involved
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
left says... I am not. But my time and energy probably best employed elsewhere. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ *From:* Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181) mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com *Sent:* Wednesday, May 02, 2012 12:07 PM *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down. Since you are talking about me Mark I'll chime in here a bit too. As I've said before. You and I mostly agree. Government is, with precious few exceptions, the enemy of the people. Government and far to many that work in it are just plain evil. Or maybe arrogant but in the end that causes them to do evil things to the regular folk of the country. WISPA is an association of or membership. The members are encouraged to run for leadership positions every year (half the board is up for election every year). There is no restriction on who can run for the board other than they have to be a member in good standing. There are a few other things that we ask of our candidates but they don't generally apply to the people here (no one I know of is sitting in jail right now :-). WISPA was formed to help protect our industry. Mostly from the government. That's why we are so focused and spend most of our money on FCC and legislative issues. We've actually been pretty successful here. We've had good success on favorable rules changes, gotten additional spectrum and we've stopped quite a few bad ideas from coming to fruition. I remember getting into it with you on the idea of reporting on the 477. You called me a traitor. Perhaps that fits but I think of myself as more of a realist. The 477 is there. We can't make it go away. In fact, much to my chagrin, it's work with the stupid broadband map. Tell you what though. They ARE there. They DO exist. And your competition is going to be government funded, or not, based at least in part on what the map shows. If you refuse to place yourself on the map, that's your choice. A foolish choice that's bad for you AND the rest of the industry, but your choice to make none the less. I live in farm country. Everyone out here gets government money for something. Crop failures, CRP programs, price supports etc. It sucks. Government money is poison. But so is NO money. It's like salt in many ways. Too much will kill you just as dead as too little. Here's a current example. We have bought out some of the CRP my family has. We run off road motorbike races on the ground. Now it's up for renewal. But the Fish and Wildlife department is refusing to allow the renewal because we need a buffer zone around the track. One that's probably bigger than the 49 acres of crp will support. Dad's still looking into it. Dad's PISSED off though. He didn't enter into any contracts with Fish and Game, why are they involved with this issue at all It's ALL private property. But, since it's rented to the government we have to live by it's rules. The bike races bring 10s of thousands or dollars into our local economy. Probably closer to 100k. But that doesn't matter to the dickheads at Fish and Game. They are more worried about the fish that don't exist in the middle of a field and the game birds that might be harmed in some way. I guess birds and deer can't hear a dirt bike coming soon enough to get out of the way. Wanna know the funniest part of all this? Dad plants habitat and birds because he loves that kind of stuff. That doesn't matter to Fish and Game though. They still want the races stopped. Or he has to give up over $2500 per year in revenue from the CRP payments on that ground. More than he'd make farming it (that's the reason for CRP in the first place). So a guy is stuck. The government controls (in one way or another) the prices farmers can charge for their crops, chemical use etc. and therefore the revenue that a farmer can generate. They then offer a program that will pay the farmer more money for the use of his poor ground and set the rules for it's use (basically nothing). Then they change the rules as time goes on, making them more and more restrictive. Eventually out here people tend to eventually give up and sell the ground to the government. MOST of the water ways are now owned by the state. I could go on, but everyone here has a similar story to tell. Look at the recent thread about the idiotic OSHA rules. Who's going to let anyone put a fall restraint system on their home? If you have a habit of falling off roofs, go get a desk job! In the end though. You and I, alone, can't fix any of this. We can't control anything. We have to band together into groups. And those groups have to compromise. Those groups also have to deal with reality as it exists while they try to enact their ultimate goals. WISPA did tell the FCC to eliminate USF, CAF or any
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
I knew I could count on you to demonstrate complete ignorance of What Should Be, Because It Once Was. The founders would curse you for having no understanding. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ I really think you seriously need to read about our founding fathers, and how they operated, (they all did not get together and sing kumbaya at the camp fire, neither did they pickup their scrolls of paper and walk away to their own corners when there was disagreement )...and try to gain an understanding on the 'Democratic Principles of Government' on how they function and operate. You seem to be totally missing the last 2 thirds of the 'for the people, of the people and by the people' , and yes it is precisely because of thinking like yours (suggested in your own words), that the Great French Philosophers of their time, said that the US Constitution / way of Governing is never going to work, and it is doomed for failure When asked why ? The response was .. 'Simple. common people are not interested in participating in the Governing process'. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
now give up almost
anything we believe in for a few dollars or other material
or monetary benefit. Nothing will change, until we're
ready to live by what we think, and start doing so, and that
includes our businesses, our financial lives, and every vote
we make, and really, truly, stop compromising.
You talk about joining and getting elected to leadership.
One thing about leadership, is that if those you're leading
don't want to go where you're going, you're not leading,
you're just exploring space on your own. I stated as
clearly as I could, that the issue here, is that the
membership is NOT in agreement with me, save for probably a
few. And to what end, other than acrimony, would trying to
be a strident voice for certain principled things?
I said in my previous post, that this isn't nearly as
political as some want it to be made out to be. It's more
about the realities of business, economics, and management
of our own enterprises. We as a nation are incredibly
ignorant about how to be the businessmen we want to be (and
I put myself in that statement), and if we learned what we
should, whatever political aspects of our lives are
impacted, would take care of themselves. I, too, live in a
very rural area, and watch the people decry the price
supports, controls, subsidies, and then engage in them,
because they believe they cannot compete or succeed without
them.
I read two stories recently, one was of a sizeable
business (assets in the billions)that was slowly going
bankrupt, which was offered a loan by the federal
government. But the CEO turned it down, and instead,
announced impending bankruptcy. He chose to own it as
failure, rather than throw good money after bad. That's
integrity. Another was in the process of borrowing money
from the DOE, cash that would be immensely helpful to his
company. He cancelled it and announced they'll just
struggle through on their own. We CAN live without being
bribed, we can say "no". And it's going to take millions
of us saying "no", but we can do it and we can turn our
industries.. .and country... around it. And it's all about
individuals, decisions, and principled choices - not about
politics, but about rational choices about the present and
future.
Maybe Iam askingto too much.What little optimism I
have left says... I am not. But mytime and energyprobably
best employed elsewhere.
++
Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200 509-386-4589
++
From: Marlon K. Schafer
(509-982-2181)
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 12:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some
up, some down.
Since you are talking about me
Mark I'll chime in here a bit too.
As I've said before. You and I
mostly agree. Government is, with precious few
exceptions,the enemy of the people. Government and far to
many that work in it are just plain evil. Or maybe arrogant
but in the end that causes them to do evil things to the
regular folk of the country.
WISPA is an association of or
membership. The members are encouraged to run for
leadership positions every year (half the board is up for
election every year). There is no restriction on who can
run for the board other than they have to be a member in
good standing. There are a few other things that we ask of
our candidates but they don't generally apply to the people
here (no one I know of is sitting in jail right now :-).
WISPA was formed to help
protect our industry. Mostly from the government. That's
why we are so focused and spend most of our money on FCC and
legislative issues. We've actually been pretty successful
here. We've had good success on favorable rules changes,
gotten additional spectrum and we've stopped quite a few bad
ideas from coming to fruition.
I remember getting into it with
you onthe idea of reporting on the 477.
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
Cheers... You nailed it now you know what I meant by 'hiding your head in the sand' No ignorance of 'What Should Be, Because It Once Was'... but recognition of ... What IT IS AT THE PRESENT and WHAT IT NEEDS to BE in the FUTURE.. I suggest you continue to remain in the in the past... so that when the next set of 'future' come and hits you on the side.. you can continue discussing what it could be or could have been Meanwhile I would suggest that you stop dissing folks who are trying very hard to get his train wreck back on it's track against surmounting odds. The Shit that is hitting us all in the Telecom industry today was signed sealed and delivered 7 years ago and 7 years ago most of the WISP's were a happy go lucky crowd. Like I have said before, want to do something about it ? Get active (and I don't mean your one time effort to call your Congress Person and giving them your piece of mind)... It is a journey and not an event nor a destination... or Keep your armchair quarterbacking skill for your Sunday Night Football events.. :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 5/3/2012 12:10 AM, MDK wrote: I knew I could count on you to demonstrate complete ignorance of What Should Be, Because It Once Was. The founders would curse you for having no understanding. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ I really think you seriously need to read about our founding fathers, and how they operated, (they all did not get together and sing kumbaya at the camp fire, neither did they pickup their scrolls of paper and walk away to their own corners when there was disagreement )...and try to gain an understanding on the 'Democratic Principles of Government' on how they function and operate. You seem to be totally missing the last 2 thirds of the 'for the people, of the people and by the people' , and yes it is precisely because of thinking like yours (suggested in your own words), that the Great French Philosophers of their time, said that the US Constitution / way of Governing is never going to work, and it is doomed for failure When asked why ? The response was .. 'Simple. common people are not interested in participating in the Governing process'. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] It's been a ride... Some up, some down.
Much agreement here. On 5/1/2012 5:33 PM, MDK wrote: As the anniversary of my full 8th year activelyin the wirelessinternet business is here, I decided to make some comments. My interest in wireless internet, and actual efforts to actually start doing it are now 14 years old. Yes, really, it was that long ago. And Im feeling much older these days. My first internet venture failed quite spectacularly. I think I made every mistake one could make, and didnt learn every lesson there was to learn, either. But it did help, as I did not repeat a bunch of things that were fatal. The most important one was to not start with vastly larger bills than your revenue. Growth doesnt always come in rapid fashion. And theres a cost to all growth. Know before you make that leap, what the consequences will be. Over the last few years, Ive been known to get what some people call political. Perhaps it is, I say it isnt. Its just common sense business principles. It was one of my first lessons learn how to preserve your future flexibility, because THINGS CHANGE. That, too, was one of my first mistakes. I had no alternatives, really, to travelling down the road I started on, which was a seriously bad mistake. That ability to be flexible, to violate the rules of internet by wire, is what created the WISP business in the first place, and yet, its one of the things thats been done the most damage to, and faces the largest threats in the future. This post is probably my last, as it concerns things WISPA. I have given up on WISPA completely. Mostly for the reasons above. While WISPA was being formed, I had the self-generated illusion that fellow WISPSs would be all about getting, expanding, and maintaining the freedom to be in business. Were notorious for being rogues, cowboys, unconventional, and extremely individualistic. It would have never occurred to me that one or more founders of WISPA would go to the FCC and tell them that they should create reporting mandates and then encourage regulation of our industry. My shock when I learned that was a kind of rock your world kind of thing. And anger. Serious anger. How dare people undertake to put us under the thumb of the utterly incompetent idiots in Washington DC? If you want to live that way, go live some place like that, dont undertake to force it upon me. Thats the essence of the American attitude, history, and the very thing that built this country. Over the years, Ive come to realize that unlike me, few of our industry have any such lesson learned. The idea of getting free money or loans or other favors in the form of money from government or government actions has lured them into becoming just another faction of the crony capitalism that has all but destroyed our nations economy, currency, and threatens to finish the job, rapid-fire. WISPA certainly doesnt seem to have any interest in telling Washington DC to go pound sand, and do what is the morally, economically, and Constitutionally right and proper thing Leave us the HELL ALONE! Stop pretending that DC is the source of goodness, and stop pretending that they have even an IOTA of the answers for what ails the country and how to supply our needs. They do not. I wont waste your time with explanations of what I want, after all, either youre in agreement, or else your only interest is in creating false portrayals to attack me personally, calling me an anti-government nut or any of 100 other senseless phrases. Some of you Ive gotten to know a bit over the years, and I have no idea if any of you are on this list anymore. Maybe someone will post this where everyone can read it if they want. Why we cant advocate for economic and business operation freedom anymore is completely beyond my comprehension. Especially since were supposed be about business, a business which exists solely because of that amazing concept of economic and personal liberty otherwise known as
