RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Paul Lee (paulle)]

I know of a University that is using Hybrid REAP mode AP's in their
classrooms lock for access control. The professor has the ability to
deny network access at the VLAN level in the switch which the H-REAP AP
is tagging student traffic. Only students on the classroom AP's will be
affected and students not in class at that time will still have access
to the network.






-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Don Wright
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:46 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms


I know the original poster asked not to mention this, but the wave
of
netbooks/laptops with 3G/wifi will be upon us soon.  Technology band-aid
solutions cannot win this battle, IMHO.

Don Wright


On 12/3/09 9:52 AM, "Peter P Morrissey"  wrote:

> I have to say that I disagree that this would be in any way evil,
assuming we
> could do it effectively.
> Sure, if it was done in a manner that is partially effective, then
yeah, it
> would be awful.
> However, if there really was a way to limit by class, who can get on
the
> Internet and only during the class period without any undesirable side
effects
> that have been mentioned, and if it was cost effective and manageable,
and
> controlled by the instructor etc etc, then I think it would be a great
idea. I
> think that from what I have heard thus far, nobody has surmounted all
the
> challenges and has done this effectively. The danger is that it would
be
> implemented, but implemented poorly because an IT shop wasn't able to
> effectively communicate the problems and deficiencies of the
implementation.
> 
> I have taught a lot of classes and I can tell you that it takes an
extremely
> gifted instructor to compete with something as compelling as the
Internet. I
> have found that even graduate students, and professionals using their
laptops
> in meetings have a hard time disciplining themselves not to be
distracted. I
> simply tell students they can't have laptops on during the lecture.
Not only
> are these compelling distractions hurting them, but it also distracts
other
> students who really do want to pay attention. And it hurts the tone of
the
> class when you call on people who are not paying attention. Sure, that
problem
> has been around forever, but again, the Internet just magnifies an
already
> difficult problem many times. There are a lot of rules that are up to
the
> discretion of the instructor to set to enhance learning. Some are
easier to
> enforce than others, but I think that if, (and again, it is very much
an "if")
> there was a way to allow students to use their laptops without having
Internet
> access it could be very useful. It seems that it is very common in Law
Schools
> for students to use laptops for taking notes so it is not as simple as
being
> able to tell them to just turn them off. That is why you see them
asking for
> this the most. In defense of the professors, I don't blame them at all
for
> asking IT to use IT to solve a problem that in their eyes is caused by
> technology. It is our job to communicate to them the challenges and
tradeoffs.
> 
> Peter M.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
> [mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Philippe
Hanset
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:54 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in
classrooms
> 
> Nick,
> 
> We have explored the possibility of not allowing  some students
> on  the wireless network based on various criteria.
> Though a lot of Controller Based Architectures (Cisco, Aruba, ...)
> might let you do such a thing as
> far as the capability is concerned, the main problem resides into the
> control mechanism.
> At one point you will have to rely on a database of enrollment to
> block a particular student
> from joining at a particular location (if you don't do it for a
> location, you will prevent students
> from joining all together)
> The two limitations were:
> -who will decide and enable the rules?
> (sub-admin privileges to Faculty?)
> (Have Faculty call the helpdesk prior to class)
> -How accurate is the enrollment database (add/remove)
>   (classroom assignments do change a lot)
> 
> And finally (but you asked us not to mention the philosophical
> approach...) it's not because we can
> that we should!
> 
> We ended up abandoning the idea (though we had a lot of fun
> brainstorming about it)
> because it would have been a management nightmare, and it is totally
> evil.
> 
> Phili

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Don Wright]

I know the original poster asked not to mention this, but the wave of
netbooks/laptops with 3G/wifi will be upon us soon.  Technology band-aid
solutions cannot win this battle, IMHO.

Don Wright


On 12/3/09 9:52 AM, "Peter P Morrissey"  wrote:

> I have to say that I disagree that this would be in any way evil, assuming we
> could do it effectively.
> Sure, if it was done in a manner that is partially effective, then yeah, it
> would be awful.
> However, if there really was a way to limit by class, who can get on the
> Internet and only during the class period without any undesirable side effects
> that have been mentioned, and if it was cost effective and manageable, and
> controlled by the instructor etc etc, then I think it would be a great idea. I
> think that from what I have heard thus far, nobody has surmounted all the
> challenges and has done this effectively. The danger is that it would be
> implemented, but implemented poorly because an IT shop wasn't able to
> effectively communicate the problems and deficiencies of the implementation.
> 
> I have taught a lot of classes and I can tell you that it takes an extremely
> gifted instructor to compete with something as compelling as the Internet. I
> have found that even graduate students, and professionals using their laptops
> in meetings have a hard time disciplining themselves not to be distracted. I
> simply tell students they can't have laptops on during the lecture. Not only
> are these compelling distractions hurting them, but it also distracts other
> students who really do want to pay attention. And it hurts the tone of the
> class when you call on people who are not paying attention. Sure, that problem
> has been around forever, but again, the Internet just magnifies an already
> difficult problem many times. There are a lot of rules that are up to the
> discretion of the instructor to set to enhance learning. Some are easier to
> enforce than others, but I think that if, (and again, it is very much an "if")
> there was a way to allow students to use their laptops without having Internet
> access it could be very useful. It seems that it is very common in Law Schools
> for students to use laptops for taking notes so it is not as simple as being
> able to tell them to just turn them off. That is why you see them asking for
> this the most. In defense of the professors, I don't blame them at all for
> asking IT to use IT to solve a problem that in their eyes is caused by
> technology. It is our job to communicate to them the challenges and tradeoffs.
> 
> Peter M.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
> [mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Philippe Hanset
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:54 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms
> 
> Nick,
> 
> We have explored the possibility of not allowing  some students
> on  the wireless network based on various criteria.
> Though a lot of Controller Based Architectures (Cisco, Aruba, ...)
> might let you do such a thing as
> far as the capability is concerned, the main problem resides into the
> control mechanism.
> At one point you will have to rely on a database of enrollment to
> block a particular student
> from joining at a particular location (if you don't do it for a
> location, you will prevent students
> from joining all together)
> The two limitations were:
> -who will decide and enable the rules?
> (sub-admin privileges to Faculty?)
> (Have Faculty call the helpdesk prior to class)
> -How accurate is the enrollment database (add/remove)
>   (classroom assignments do change a lot)
> 
> And finally (but you asked us not to mention the philosophical
> approach...) it's not because we can
> that we should!
> 
> We ended up abandoning the idea (though we had a lot of fun
> brainstorming about it)
> because it would have been a management nightmare, and it is totally
> evil.
> 
> Philippe Hanset
> Univ. of TN
> 
> p.s. We brainstormed that idea 3-4 years ago and we are glad we didn't
> do it.
>  We see so many Iphones (using 3G) in classrooms that it would
> have been a waste
> of time. There is also a "wallpaper" that can be turned ON/
> OFF, effectively shutting the classroom
> from most microwaves. If one is looking at a special classroom
> without "connectivity", this could be
> a solution.
> 
> 
> On Dec 2, 2009, at 7:56 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:
> 
>> Thank you everybody for contributing to the conversation. It has been
>> very helpful.
>> 
>&g

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Peter P Morrissey]

I have to say that I disagree that this would be in any way evil, assuming we 
could do it effectively.
Sure, if it was done in a manner that is partially effective, then yeah, it 
would be awful.
However, if there really was a way to limit by class, who can get on the 
Internet and only during the class period without any undesirable side effects 
that have been mentioned, and if it was cost effective and manageable, and 
controlled by the instructor etc etc, then I think it would be a great idea. I 
think that from what I have heard thus far, nobody has surmounted all the 
challenges and has done this effectively. The danger is that it would be 
implemented, but implemented poorly because an IT shop wasn't able to 
effectively communicate the problems and deficiencies of the implementation.

I have taught a lot of classes and I can tell you that it takes an extremely 
gifted instructor to compete with something as compelling as the Internet. I 
have found that even graduate students, and professionals using their laptops 
in meetings have a hard time disciplining themselves not to be distracted. I 
simply tell students they can't have laptops on during the lecture. Not only 
are these compelling distractions hurting them, but it also distracts other 
students who really do want to pay attention. And it hurts the tone of the 
class when you call on people who are not paying attention. Sure, that problem 
has been around forever, but again, the Internet just magnifies an already 
difficult problem many times. There are a lot of rules that are up to the 
discretion of the instructor to set to enhance learning. Some are easier to 
enforce than others, but I think that if, (and again, it is very much an "if") 
there was a way to allow students to use their laptops without having Internet 
access it could be very useful. It seems that it is very common in Law Schools 
for students to use laptops for taking notes so it is not as simple as being 
able to tell them to just turn them off. That is why you see them asking for 
this the most. In defense of the professors, I don't blame them at all for 
asking IT to use IT to solve a problem that in their eyes is caused by 
technology. It is our job to communicate to them the challenges and tradeoffs.

Peter M.

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Philippe Hanset
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:54 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

Nick,

We have explored the possibility of not allowing  some students
on  the wireless network based on various criteria.
Though a lot of Controller Based Architectures (Cisco, Aruba, ...)   
might let you do such a thing as
far as the capability is concerned, the main problem resides into the  
control mechanism.
At one point you will have to rely on a database of enrollment to  
block a particular student
from joining at a particular location (if you don't do it for a  
location, you will prevent students
from joining all together)
The two limitations were:
-who will decide and enable the rules?
(sub-admin privileges to Faculty?)
(Have Faculty call the helpdesk prior to class)
-How accurate is the enrollment database (add/remove)
  (classroom assignments do change a lot)

And finally (but you asked us not to mention the philosophical  
approach...) it's not because we can
that we should!

We ended up abandoning the idea (though we had a lot of fun  
brainstorming about it)
because it would have been a management nightmare, and it is totally  
evil.

Philippe Hanset
Univ. of TN

p.s. We brainstormed that idea 3-4 years ago and we are glad we didn't  
do it.
 We see so many Iphones (using 3G) in classrooms that it would  
have been a waste
of time. There is also a "wallpaper" that can be turned ON/ 
OFF, effectively shutting the classroom
from most microwaves. If one is looking at a special classroom  
without "connectivity", this could be
a solution.


On Dec 2, 2009, at 7:56 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:

> Thank you everybody for contributing to the conversation. It has been
> very helpful.
>
>
> 
> Nicholas Urrea
> Information Technology
> UC Hastings College of the Law
> urr...@uchastings.edu
> x4718
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
> [mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:52 PM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in  
> classrooms
>
> I'm agreeing with John- this is madness.
>
> What about the DAS systems boosting cell coverage? Do faculty get an
> on/o

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[heath.barnhart]

I've never been asked to do anything like this, but I agree with most of 
the responses that this would be impractical to on a room by room/class 
by class basis, even if automated. It would probably require interfacing 
with several systems which would add to the cost and 
time-to-implementation. I think the best solution mentioned would be 
traffic shaping, as it will allow for a measure of control across your 
wireless network during class hours while still allowing Internet 
access. If strategically placed in your network (and depending on how 
your wireless LAN(s) are laid out) you could get what wanted. We are 
doing traffic shaping, but it is for bandwidth management and not 
content control.


--
Heath Barnhart
Asst. Systems and Networking Admin
Information Systems and Services
Washburn University
Topeka, KS 66621



Philippe Hanset wrote:

Nick,

We have explored the possibility of not allowing  some students
on  the wireless network based on various criteria.
Though a lot of Controller Based Architectures (Cisco, Aruba, ...)  
might let you do such a thing as
far as the capability is concerned, the main problem resides into the 
control mechanism.
At one point you will have to rely on a database of enrollment to 
block a particular student
from joining at a particular location (if you don't do it for a 
location, you will prevent students

from joining all together)
The two limitations were:
-who will decide and enable the rules?
(sub-admin privileges to Faculty?)
(Have Faculty call the helpdesk prior to class)
-How accurate is the enrollment database (add/remove)
 (classroom assignments do change a lot)

And finally (but you asked us not to mention the philosophical 
approach...) it's not because we can

that we should!

We ended up abandoning the idea (though we had a lot of fun 
brainstorming about it)
because it would have been a management nightmare, and it is totally 
evil.


Philippe Hanset
Univ. of TN

p.s. We brainstormed that idea 3-4 years ago and we are glad we didn't 
do it.
We see so many Iphones (using 3G) in classrooms that it would 
have been a waste
   of time. There is also a "wallpaper" that can be turned ON/OFF, 
effectively shutting the classroom
   from most microwaves. If one is looking at a special classroom 
without "connectivity", this could be

   a solution.


On Dec 2, 2009, at 7:56 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:


Thank you everybody for contributing to the conversation. It has been
very helpful.



Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology
UC Hastings College of the Law
urr...@uchastings.edu
x4718



-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:52 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

I'm agreeing with John- this is madness.

What about the DAS systems boosting cell coverage? Do faculty get an
on/off switch for that? Or for newspapers and magazines that also
distract? And what about ad hoc networks, and MiFi cells? And iPods, and
doodling? There are several ways to get to the internet, and many more
to not pay attention (one of my sons makes the most elaborate little
paper figures when he's bored in class- the more elaborate his creations
are, the more his mind was elsewhere in class.) And let's not forget
that more and more emergency notification systems rely on IP and you
being reached in a hyper-connected world.

As far as surgically killing off wireless in a specific room while
leaving it untouched on the other side of garden variety sheetrock wall
goes, I'm from Arkansas- you'd have to show me. And then I'd be looking
for the smoke machine and magic mirrors!

But it does make for interesting cultural discussion. Be forewarned-
non-PC  profiling ahead: I have to wonder how many of the complainants
are older, or lacking in classroom management skills to begin with...

-Lee Badman
Skeptical in Syracuse



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of John Rodkey
[rod...@westmont.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:03 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

Build a Faraday cage around each classroom. [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage ] Embed wire mesh in all
walls, remove all windows, replace wooden doors with steel.   Your
financial people will look askance on this, and future technologist who
are now required by the faculty to ensure high wireless signal levels in
every square centimeter of campus (especially classrooms) will curse the
day you were born, but you will have provided a solution within the
limits you've requested.

Seriously: you ca

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Philippe Hanset]

Nick,

We have explored the possibility of not allowing  some students
on  the wireless network based on various criteria.
Though a lot of Controller Based Architectures (Cisco, Aruba, ...)   
might let you do such a thing as
far as the capability is concerned, the main problem resides into the  
control mechanism.
At one point you will have to rely on a database of enrollment to  
block a particular student
from joining at a particular location (if you don't do it for a  
location, you will prevent students

from joining all together)
The two limitations were:
-who will decide and enable the rules?
(sub-admin privileges to Faculty?)
(Have Faculty call the helpdesk prior to class)
-How accurate is the enrollment database (add/remove)
 (classroom assignments do change a lot)

And finally (but you asked us not to mention the philosophical  
approach...) it's not because we can

that we should!

We ended up abandoning the idea (though we had a lot of fun  
brainstorming about it)
because it would have been a management nightmare, and it is totally  
evil.


Philippe Hanset
Univ. of TN

p.s. We brainstormed that idea 3-4 years ago and we are glad we didn't  
do it.
We see so many Iphones (using 3G) in classrooms that it would  
have been a waste
   of time. There is also a "wallpaper" that can be turned ON/ 
OFF, effectively shutting the classroom
   from most microwaves. If one is looking at a special classroom  
without "connectivity", this could be

   a solution.


On Dec 2, 2009, at 7:56 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:


Thank you everybody for contributing to the conversation. It has been
very helpful.



Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology
UC Hastings College of the Law
urr...@uchastings.edu
x4718



-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:52 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in  
classrooms


I'm agreeing with John- this is madness.

What about the DAS systems boosting cell coverage? Do faculty get an
on/off switch for that? Or for newspapers and magazines that also
distract? And what about ad hoc networks, and MiFi cells? And iPods,  
and

doodling? There are several ways to get to the internet, and many more
to not pay attention (one of my sons makes the most elaborate little
paper figures when he's bored in class- the more elaborate his  
creations

are, the more his mind was elsewhere in class.) And let's not forget
that more and more emergency notification systems rely on IP and you
being reached in a hyper-connected world.

As far as surgically killing off wireless in a specific room while
leaving it untouched on the other side of garden variety sheetrock  
wall
goes, I'm from Arkansas- you'd have to show me. And then I'd be  
looking

for the smoke machine and magic mirrors!

But it does make for interesting cultural discussion. Be forewarned-
non-PC  profiling ahead: I have to wonder how many of the complainants
are older, or lacking in classroom management skills to begin with...

-Lee Badman
Skeptical in Syracuse



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of John Rodkey
[rod...@westmont.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:03 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in  
classrooms


Build a Faraday cage around each classroom. [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage ] Embed wire mesh in all
walls, remove all windows, replace wooden doors with steel.   Your
financial people will look askance on this, and future technologist  
who
are now required by the faculty to ensure high wireless signal  
levels in
every square centimeter of campus (especially classrooms) will curse  
the

day you were born, but you will have provided a solution within the
limits you've requested.

Seriously: you can't really talk with faculty about the ubiquity of
wireless signals and the need to have a workable strategy and  
classroom
discipline technique that allows for proper use of those signals?   
This

is really the conversation that needs to be happening.  As the saying
goes, you need to win the hearts and the minds.  Faculty need to win
their students' hearts and minds on this front.  Otherwise, you will
have set the stage for a perpetual guerrilla warfare.

John Rodkey
Associate Director of IT
Westmont College

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Urrea, Nick
mailto:urr...@uchastings.edu>> wrote:
I'm compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.
My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that
restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?
Also if you 

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Ian McDonald]

John Rodkey wrote:
Build a Faraday cage around each classroom. [ 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage ] Embed wire mesh in all 
walls, remove all windows, replace wooden doors with steel.   Your 
financial people will look askance on this, and future technologist 
who are now required by the faculty to ensure high wireless signal 
levels in every square centimeter of campus (especially classrooms) 
will curse the day you were born, but you will have provided a 
solution within the limits you've requested.


Seriously: you can't really talk with faculty about the ubiquity of 
wireless signals and the need to have a workable strategy and 
classroom discipline technique that allows for proper use of those 
signals?  This is really the conversation that needs to be happening.  
As the saying goes, you need to win the hearts and the minds.  Faculty 
need to win their students' hearts and minds on this front.  
Otherwise, you will have set the stage for a perpetual guerrilla warfare.


John Rodkey
Associate Director of IT
Westmont College

We had such an experience. We couldn't fathom why an AP in a room in
one of our buildings couldn't make it through the walls. We puzzled
over this, and fitted more APs, but then an "old-timer" round here
mentioned that the building used to be an X-Ray Clinic, many moons ago.
Turns out it has lead sheet on the walls. 

We only had a request like this once. We used the strategy starting with "Seriously", above.. 

Best, 


--
ian

Ian McDonald, ITS, University of St Andrews
T: +441334462779 F: +441334462759
The University of St Andrews is a charity registered in Scotland: SC013532

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Urrea, Nick]

Thank you everybody for contributing to the conversation. It has been
very helpful.



Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology 
UC Hastings College of the Law
urr...@uchastings.edu
x4718



-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:52 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

I'm agreeing with John- this is madness.

 What about the DAS systems boosting cell coverage? Do faculty get an
on/off switch for that? Or for newspapers and magazines that also
distract? And what about ad hoc networks, and MiFi cells? And iPods, and
doodling? There are several ways to get to the internet, and many more
to not pay attention (one of my sons makes the most elaborate little
paper figures when he's bored in class- the more elaborate his creations
are, the more his mind was elsewhere in class.) And let's not forget
that more and more emergency notification systems rely on IP and you
being reached in a hyper-connected world.

As far as surgically killing off wireless in a specific room while
leaving it untouched on the other side of garden variety sheetrock wall
goes, I'm from Arkansas- you'd have to show me. And then I'd be looking
for the smoke machine and magic mirrors!

But it does make for interesting cultural discussion. Be forewarned-
non-PC  profiling ahead: I have to wonder how many of the complainants
are older, or lacking in classroom management skills to begin with...

-Lee Badman
Skeptical in Syracuse



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of John Rodkey
[rod...@westmont.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:03 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

Build a Faraday cage around each classroom. [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage ] Embed wire mesh in all
walls, remove all windows, replace wooden doors with steel.   Your
financial people will look askance on this, and future technologist who
are now required by the faculty to ensure high wireless signal levels in
every square centimeter of campus (especially classrooms) will curse the
day you were born, but you will have provided a solution within the
limits you've requested.

Seriously: you can't really talk with faculty about the ubiquity of
wireless signals and the need to have a workable strategy and classroom
discipline technique that allows for proper use of those signals?  This
is really the conversation that needs to be happening.  As the saying
goes, you need to win the hearts and the minds.  Faculty need to win
their students' hearts and minds on this front.  Otherwise, you will
have set the stage for a perpetual guerrilla warfare.

John Rodkey
Associate Director of IT
Westmont College

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Urrea, Nick
mailto:urr...@uchastings.edu>> wrote:
I'm compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.
My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that
restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?
Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless
access in classrooms let me know. Why didn't the solution work.
No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband
card from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the
classrooms, or that teaching techniques should improve.



Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology
UC Hastings College of the Law
urr...@uchastings.edu<mailto:urr...@uchastings.edu>
x4718

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Lee H Badman]

I'm agreeing with John- this is madness.

 What about the DAS systems boosting cell coverage? Do faculty get an on/off 
switch for that? Or for newspapers and magazines that also distract? And what 
about ad hoc networks, and MiFi cells? And iPods, and doodling? There are 
several ways to get to the internet, and many more to not pay attention (one of 
my sons makes the most elaborate little paper figures when he's bored in class- 
the more elaborate his creations are, the more his mind was elsewhere in 
class.) And let's not forget that more and more emergency notification systems 
rely on IP and you being reached in a hyper-connected world.

As far as surgically killing off wireless in a specific room while leaving it 
untouched on the other side of garden variety sheetrock wall goes, I'm from 
Arkansas- you'd have to show me. And then I'd be looking for the smoke machine 
and magic mirrors!

But it does make for interesting cultural discussion. Be forewarned- non-PC  
profiling ahead: I have to wonder how many of the complainants are older, or 
lacking in classroom management skills to begin with...

-Lee Badman
Skeptical in Syracuse



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of John Rodkey 
[rod...@westmont.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:03 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

Build a Faraday cage around each classroom. [ 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage ] Embed wire mesh in all walls, 
remove all windows, replace wooden doors with steel.   Your financial people 
will look askance on this, and future technologist who are now required by the 
faculty to ensure high wireless signal levels in every square centimeter of 
campus (especially classrooms) will curse the day you were born, but you will 
have provided a solution within the limits you've requested.

Seriously: you can't really talk with faculty about the ubiquity of wireless 
signals and the need to have a workable strategy and classroom discipline 
technique that allows for proper use of those signals?  This is really the 
conversation that needs to be happening.  As the saying goes, you need to win 
the hearts and the minds.  Faculty need to win their students' hearts and minds 
on this front.  Otherwise, you will have set the stage for a perpetual 
guerrilla warfare.

John Rodkey
Associate Director of IT
Westmont College

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Urrea, Nick 
mailto:urr...@uchastings.edu>> wrote:
I’m compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.
My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that restricts 
access to wireless internet in classrooms?
Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless access 
in classrooms let me know. Why didn’t the solution work.
No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband card 
from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the classrooms, or that 
teaching techniques should improve.



Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology
UC Hastings College of the Law
urr...@uchastings.edu<mailto:urr...@uchastings.edu>
x4718

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[John Rodkey]

Build a Faraday cage around each classroom. [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage ] Embed wire mesh in all walls,
remove all windows, replace wooden doors with steel.   Your financial people
will look askance on this, and future technologist who are now required by
the faculty to ensure high wireless signal levels in every square centimeter
of campus (especially classrooms) will curse the day you were born, but you
will have provided a solution within the limits you've requested.

Seriously: you can't really talk with faculty about the ubiquity of wireless
signals and the need to have a workable strategy and classroom discipline
technique that allows for proper use of those signals?  This is really the
conversation that needs to be happening.  As the saying goes, you need to
win the hearts and the minds.  Faculty need to win their students' hearts
and minds on this front.  Otherwise, you will have set the stage for a
perpetual guerrilla warfare.

John Rodkey
Associate Director of IT
Westmont College

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Urrea, Nick  wrote:

>  I’m compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.
>
> My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that
> restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?
>
> Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless
> access in classrooms let me know. Why didn’t the solution work.
>
> No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband
> card from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the classrooms, or
> that teaching techniques should improve.
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> *Nicholas Urrea*
>
> *Information Technology *
>
> UC Hastings College of the Law
>
> urr...@uchastings.edu
>
> x4718
>
>
>  ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Justin Hao]

no, you're correct about the practical and manageable aspects for 
widescale use.  We currently do not actively filter classroom vs regular 
/ student vs faculty wireless.  However we are planning to apply 
packetshaping rules to the wireless vlans as our method of control.  
Otherwise it's at the discretion of the instructor to police their 
classroom.


-Justin

Patrick Goggins wrote:

Something that we are implementing to provide this functionality is by 
separating out by ssid university owned systems from personally owned 
equipment. While it doesn't lockout by room it does still enable wireless for 
instructors.

~Patrick

On Dec 2, 2009, at 3:56 PM, "Peter P Morrissey" 
mailto:ppmor...@syr.edu>> wrote:

Thanks. I think I understand that, and I do think the Aruba system has some 
impressive features.
I’m just trying to make the point that while it appears to supply some of the 
essential building blocks, it also appears to lack the critical pieces for 
provisioning in a way that is practical and manageable. If you are saying you 
have actually solved this problem using Aruba then I stand corrected.

Peter M.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Justin Hao
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:11 PM
To: <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

aruba can identify roles based on radius/groups and you can assign policies 
using the aruba Policy enforcement firewall to limit access to certain 
roles/ssids/profiles etc. you may want to review their documentation to get 
more detail on these features

-Justin

Peter P Morrissey wrote:
How are you using Aruba to know what students to keep off and when?

Peter M.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On 
Behalf Of <mailto:gwill...@uccs.edu> gwill...@uccs.edu<mailto:gwill...@uccs.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:50 PM
To: <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

We use Aruba here, so like Chris Denver said, it’s not a problem to just do it 
through the equipment.   But if you have another vendor -  what about 
programming the captive portal page to email the professors about who logged 
into the page and put a disclaimer on the page that says that all logins are 
reviewed by the professor.  This way you can satisfy both those professors who 
want access and those who don’t.  If I were a student, I sure wouldn’t want my 
logins showing up on the professors email.  You could also use your syslogs to 
write a webpage that shows real time which people are logged in.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu]
 On Behalf Of Ryan Holland
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:15 PM
To: <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

Nicholas,

While I personally feel this is more of a behavioral issue to solve opposed to 
a technical one, one option would be to install APs in the restricted 
classrooms broadcasting the same ESSID as you do outside the classroom. This 
would (likely) be the strongest available signal for the students, and their 
device(s) would (likely) connect to these APs. You could invoke specific 
firewall policies for users on these APs to be different. For example, you 
could redirect all traffic to a captive portal instructing them that use of 
wireless during class is prohibited . . . or something to that effect.

Just an idea.

--
Ryan Holland
Network Engineer, Wireless
CIO - Infrastructure
614-292-9906   <mailto:holland@osu.edu> 
holland@osu.edu<mailto:holland@osu.edu>

On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:

I’m compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.
My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that restricts 
access to wireless internet in classrooms?
Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless access 
in classrooms let me know. Why didn’t the solution work.
No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband card 
from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the classrooms, or that 
teaching techniques should improve.



Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology
UC Hastings College of the Law
<mailto:urr...@uchastings.edu>urr...@uchast

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Patrick Goggins]

Something that we are implementing to provide this functionality is by 
separating out by ssid university owned systems from personally owned 
equipment. While it doesn't lockout by room it does still enable wireless for 
instructors.

~Patrick

On Dec 2, 2009, at 3:56 PM, "Peter P Morrissey" 
mailto:ppmor...@syr.edu>> wrote:

Thanks. I think I understand that, and I do think the Aruba system has some 
impressive features.
I’m just trying to make the point that while it appears to supply some of the 
essential building blocks, it also appears to lack the critical pieces for 
provisioning in a way that is practical and manageable. If you are saying you 
have actually solved this problem using Aruba then I stand corrected.

Peter M.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Justin Hao
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:11 PM
To: <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

aruba can identify roles based on radius/groups and you can assign policies 
using the aruba Policy enforcement firewall to limit access to certain 
roles/ssids/profiles etc. you may want to review their documentation to get 
more detail on these features

-Justin

Peter P Morrissey wrote:
How are you using Aruba to know what students to keep off and when?

Peter M.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu]
 On Behalf Of <mailto:gwill...@uccs.edu> 
gwill...@uccs.edu<mailto:gwill...@uccs.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:50 PM
To: <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

We use Aruba here, so like Chris Denver said, it’s not a problem to just do it 
through the equipment.   But if you have another vendor -  what about 
programming the captive portal page to email the professors about who logged 
into the page and put a disclaimer on the page that says that all logins are 
reviewed by the professor.  This way you can satisfy both those professors who 
want access and those who don’t.  If I were a student, I sure wouldn’t want my 
logins showing up on the professors email.  You could also use your syslogs to 
write a webpage that shows real time which people are logged in.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu]
 On Behalf Of Ryan Holland
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:15 PM
To: <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

Nicholas,

While I personally feel this is more of a behavioral issue to solve opposed to 
a technical one, one option would be to install APs in the restricted 
classrooms broadcasting the same ESSID as you do outside the classroom. This 
would (likely) be the strongest available signal for the students, and their 
device(s) would (likely) connect to these APs. You could invoke specific 
firewall policies for users on these APs to be different. For example, you 
could redirect all traffic to a captive portal instructing them that use of 
wireless during class is prohibited . . . or something to that effect.

Just an idea.

--
Ryan Holland
Network Engineer, Wireless
CIO - Infrastructure
614-292-9906   <mailto:holland@osu.edu> 
holland@osu.edu<mailto:holland@osu.edu>

On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:

I’m compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.
My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that restricts 
access to wireless internet in classrooms?
Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless access 
in classrooms let me know. Why didn’t the solution work.
No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband card 
from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the classrooms, or that 
teaching techniques should improve.



Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology
UC Hastings College of the Law
<mailto:urr...@uchastings.edu>urr...@uchastings.edu<mailto:urr...@uchastings.edu>
x4718



Spam<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=s>
Not spam<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=n>
Forget previous 
vote<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=f>
** Participation and subscription

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Michael Horne]

Newbury Networks recently purchased by Trapeze has this type of infrastructure 
and will use the trapeze AP's to police a location.

Newbury takes a building drawing and applies a firewall to the location and can 
create a secure room that wireless access is allowed or denied depending on a 
given location.


We were looking into some RFID tracking and this is also something this product 
can do with our current Trapeze infrastructure.

http://www.newburynetworks.com/


Mike Horne


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Peter P Morrissey
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

Thanks. I think I understand that, and I do think the Aruba system has some 
impressive features.
I'm just trying to make the point that while it appears to supply some of the 
essential building blocks, it also appears to lack the critical pieces for 
provisioning in a way that is practical and manageable. If you are saying you 
have actually solved this problem using Aruba then I stand corrected.

Peter M.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Justin Hao
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:11 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

aruba can identify roles based on radius/groups and you can assign policies 
using the aruba Policy enforcement firewall to limit access to certain 
roles/ssids/profiles etc. you may want to review their documentation to get 
more detail on these features

-Justin

Peter P Morrissey wrote:
How are you using Aruba to know what students to keep off and when?

Peter M.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of 
gwill...@uccs.edu<mailto:gwill...@uccs.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:50 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

We use Aruba here, so like Chris Denver said, it's not a problem to just do it 
through the equipment.   But if you have another vendor -  what about 
programming the captive portal page to email the professors about who logged 
into the page and put a disclaimer on the page that says that all logins are 
reviewed by the professor.  This way you can satisfy both those professors who 
want access and those who don't.  If I were a student, I sure wouldn't want my 
logins showing up on the professors email.  You could also use your syslogs to 
write a webpage that shows real time which people are logged in.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Ryan Holland
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:15 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

Nicholas,

While I personally feel this is more of a behavioral issue to solve opposed to 
a technical one, one option would be to install APs in the restricted 
classrooms broadcasting the same ESSID as you do outside the classroom. This 
would (likely) be the strongest available signal for the students, and their 
device(s) would (likely) connect to these APs. You could invoke specific 
firewall policies for users on these APs to be different. For example, you 
could redirect all traffic to a captive portal instructing them that use of 
wireless during class is prohibited . . . or something to that effect.

Just an idea.

--
Ryan Holland
Network Engineer, Wireless
CIO - Infrastructure
614-292-9906   holland@osu.edu<mailto:holland@osu.edu>

On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:

I'm compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.
My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that restricts 
access to wireless internet in classrooms?
Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless access 
in classrooms let me know. Why didn't the solution work.
No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband card 
from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the classrooms, or that 
teaching techniques should improve.



Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology
UC Hastings College of the Law
urr...@uchastings.edu<mailto:urr...@uchastings.edu>
x4718



Spam<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=s>
Not spam<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=n>
Forget previous 
vote<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b60

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Peter P Morrissey]

Thanks. I think I understand that, and I do think the Aruba system has some 
impressive features.
I'm just trying to make the point that while it appears to supply some of the 
essential building blocks, it also appears to lack the critical pieces for 
provisioning in a way that is practical and manageable. If you are saying you 
have actually solved this problem using Aruba then I stand corrected.

Peter M.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Justin Hao
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:11 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

aruba can identify roles based on radius/groups and you can assign policies 
using the aruba Policy enforcement firewall to limit access to certain 
roles/ssids/profiles etc. you may want to review their documentation to get 
more detail on these features

-Justin

Peter P Morrissey wrote:
How are you using Aruba to know what students to keep off and when?

Peter M.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of 
gwill...@uccs.edu<mailto:gwill...@uccs.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:50 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

We use Aruba here, so like Chris Denver said, it's not a problem to just do it 
through the equipment.   But if you have another vendor -  what about 
programming the captive portal page to email the professors about who logged 
into the page and put a disclaimer on the page that says that all logins are 
reviewed by the professor.  This way you can satisfy both those professors who 
want access and those who don't.  If I were a student, I sure wouldn't want my 
logins showing up on the professors email.  You could also use your syslogs to 
write a webpage that shows real time which people are logged in.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Ryan Holland
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:15 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

Nicholas,

While I personally feel this is more of a behavioral issue to solve opposed to 
a technical one, one option would be to install APs in the restricted 
classrooms broadcasting the same ESSID as you do outside the classroom. This 
would (likely) be the strongest available signal for the students, and their 
device(s) would (likely) connect to these APs. You could invoke specific 
firewall policies for users on these APs to be different. For example, you 
could redirect all traffic to a captive portal instructing them that use of 
wireless during class is prohibited . . . or something to that effect.

Just an idea.

--
Ryan Holland
Network Engineer, Wireless
CIO - Infrastructure
614-292-9906   holland@osu.edu<mailto:holland@osu.edu>

On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:

I'm compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.
My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that restricts 
access to wireless internet in classrooms?
Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless access 
in classrooms let me know. Why didn't the solution work.
No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband card 
from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the classrooms, or that 
teaching techniques should improve.



Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology
UC Hastings College of the Law
urr...@uchastings.edu<mailto:urr...@uchastings.edu>
x4718



Spam<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=s>
Not spam<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=n>
Forget previous 
vote<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=f>
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.



--

Justin Hao

Network Engineer

Texas A&M University

Networking and Information Security

j...@tamu.edu<mailto:j...@tamu.edu>

(97

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Chris Drever]

Toivo has hit the nail on the head as far as this issue goes, classes change
time and location often enough to make this a potentially huge problem. If
you choose to go down this road the technology is available but never
underestimate the human factor  when attempting to apply technology to a
problem. The decision point, as I see it is: Does blocking access warrant
the amount of time needed to deploy a special server with class schedule
time of day access control and the maintenance thereof? 

 

Chris Drever - PSU Networking

(Not speaking for my employer or offering official policy.)

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Voll, Toivo
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:01 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

 

Consider what happens if the professor moves class, cancels class, lets
people out early, or someone decides to skip class and work on a project for
something else in a study area nearby, or is in on-campus dorms sick, trying
to access class material online, or any number of similar scenarios. I don't
see how these kinds of restrictions are workable - we've told our faculty
that the wireless coverage serves people outside of just their classroom,
and we cannot disable wireless for just one classroom - it is up to the
instructor to police the class if they do not want computers or internet
used. That being said, we've seen very few requests like this.

 

-Toivo Voll

(Not speaking for my employer or offering official policy.)

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Peter P Morrissey
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:37 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

 

Interesting. So if you could find a way to populate the access policy based
upon the user's schedule of classes, you could deny them access to the
wireless network during class times. The problem is that some professors
encourage Internet access during class, so you would have to have an opt in
by a professor/class preference.

You could do it by AP, but what if that AP serves multiple classrooms?

And, what if the student connects to an AP from an adjoining building?

 

I know of one professor who has their TA's patrol the classroom and  monitor
what the students are doing. That may actually be cheaper, and more
effective than a technical solution.

 

Peter M.

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Drever
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:26 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

 

The Aruba wireless system has everything you need to control user access to
the internet including: Per user session based firewall policy with time of
day access, NAT, Routing, bandwidth rate limiting and the ability to kill
access to rogue access points. We are quite pleased with its features. 

 

Chris Drever - PSU Networking

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Urrea, Nick
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:03 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

 

I'm compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.

My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that
restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?

Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless
access in classrooms let me know. Why didn't the solution work.

No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband
card from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the classrooms, or
that teaching techniques should improve.  

 

 



Nicholas Urrea

Information Technology 

UC Hastings College of the Law

urr...@uchastings.edu

x4718

 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Urrea, Nick]

We are a Cisco shop. Does Cisco have a product to do the location based
or time based firewalling that Meru and Aruba can do? 

 

 



Nicholas Urrea

Information Technology 

UC Hastings College of the Law

urr...@uchastings.edu

x4718

 

 

 

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Sharon Luciw
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:07 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

 

The colleges wanted wireless in the classrooms to be used as a teaching
tool.  However, there was some feedback about being able to turn off the
wireless during specfic classes.  With a quarter system and a small
support staff, even with Aruba, we chose not to provide this type of
configuration/service to the instructors.

 

It was discussed as being a behavioral issue as well.

 

Sincerely,

Sharon Luciw, Director, Systems & Networks
Foothill-De Anza Community College District
ETS
12345 El Monte Road
Los Altos Hills, CA  94022
650-949-6161

"Security is Everyone's Responsibility"

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"

---

This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and
may contain confidential and privileged information.  Any unauthorized
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and
destroy all copies of the original message.

 

 

At 2:15 PM -0500 12/2/09, Ryan Holland wrote:

Nicholas,

 

While I personally feel this is more of a behavioral issue to
solve opposed to a technical one, one option would be to install APs in
the restricted classrooms broadcasting the same ESSID as you do outside
the classroom. This would (likely) be the strongest available signal for
the students, and their device(s) would (likely) connect to these APs.
You could invoke specific firewall policies for users on these APs to be
different. For example, you could redirect all traffic to a captive
portal instructing them that use of wireless during class is prohibited
. . . or something to that effect.

 

Just an idea.

 

--
Ryan Holland
Network Engineer, Wireless
CIO - Infrastructure

614-292-9906   holland@osu.edu

 

On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:





I'm compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology
Committee.

My question is has anybody successfully implemented a
solution that restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?

Also if you have tried and were not successful in
restricting wireless access in classrooms let me know. Why didn't the
solution work.

No opinions please about how students can just go buy a
mobile broadband card from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves
in the classrooms, or that teaching techniques should improve. 

 

 



Nicholas Urrea

Information Technology

UC Hastings College of the Law

urr...@uchastings.edu

x4718

 




Spam
<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=s> 
Not spam
<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=n> 
Forget previous vote
<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=f> 

** Participation and subscription information
for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

 


** Participation and subscription information for this
EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

 

 

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Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Methven, Peter J]

We've never needed to do it, but our access points draw power from  
network switches and the switches have an API which can be used to  
create stand alone applications which can interface with the switches.  
With correct planning you can disable the Access Points in the lecture  
room by cutting power, via the application that the professor can use  
without cutting coverage outside the lecture room. It requires some  
proper planning of coverage areas, and disabling low speed connections  
on the Access Points etc.


Many Thanks
Peter

Peter Methven
Network Specialist
Heriot-Watt University,
Edinburgh
U.K.

This is being sent from my phone, so please excuse any typo errors.

On 2 Dec 2009, at 20:02, "Voll, Toivo"  wrote:

Consider what happens if the professor moves class, cancels class,  
lets people out early, or someone decides to skip class and work on  
a project for something else in a study area nearby, or is in on- 
campus dorms sick, trying to access class material online, or any  
number of similar scenarios. I don’t see how these kinds of restrict 
ions are workable – we’ve told our faculty that the wireless  
coverage serves people outside of just their classroom, and we canno 
t disable wireless for just one classroom – it is up to the instruct 
or to police the class if they do not want computers or internet use 
d. That being said, we’ve seen very few requests like this.




-Toivo Voll

(Not speaking for my employer or offering official policy.)



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv  
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Peter P  
Morrissey

Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:37 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in  
classrooms




Interesting. So if you could find a way to populate the access  
policy based upon the user’s schedule of classes, you could deny the 
m access to the wireless network during class times. The problem is  
that some professors encourage Internet access during class, so you  
would have to have an opt in by a professor/class preference.


You could do it by AP, but what if that AP serves multiple classrooms?

And, what if the student connects to an AP from an adjoining building?



I know of one professor who has their TA’s patrol the classroom and  
 monitor what the students are doing. That may actually be cheaper,  
and more effective than a technical solution.




Peter M.



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv  
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Drever

Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:26 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in  
classrooms




The Aruba wireless system has everything you need to control user  
access to the internet including: Per user session based firewall  
policy with time of day access, NAT, Routing, bandwidth rate  
limiting and the ability to kill access to rogue access points. We  
are quite pleased with its features.




Chris Drever - PSU Networking



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv  
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Urrea, Nick

Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:03 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms



I’m compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.

My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that  
restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?


Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting  
wireless access in classrooms let me know. Why didn’t the solution w 
ork.


No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile  
broadband card from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in  
the classrooms, or that teaching techniques should improve.








Nicholas Urrea

Information Technology

UC Hastings College of the Law

urr...@uchastings.edu

x4718



** Participation and subscription information for this  
EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/ 
.


** Participation and subscription information for this  
EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/ 
.


** Participation and subscription information for this  
EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/ 
.


** Participation and subscription information for this  
EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/ 
.



--
Heriot-Watt University is a Scottish charity
registered under charity number SC000278.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Sharon Luciw]

The colleges wanted wireless in the classrooms to be used as a 
teaching tool.  However, there was some feedback about being able to 
turn off the wireless during specfic classes.  With a quarter system 
and a small support staff, even with Aruba, we chose not to provide 
this type of configuration/service to the instructors.


It was discussed as being a behavioral issue as well.

Sincerely,

Sharon Luciw, Director, Systems & Networks
Foothill-De Anza Community College District
ETS
12345 El Monte Road
Los Altos Hills, CA  94022
650-949-6161

"Security is Everyone's Responsibility"

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"

---

This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) 
and may contain confidential and privileged information.  Any 
unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. 
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by 
reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.



At 2:15 PM -0500 12/2/09, Ryan Holland wrote:

Nicholas,

While I personally feel this is more of a behavioral issue to solve 
opposed to a technical one, one option would be to install APs in 
the restricted classrooms broadcasting the same ESSID as you do 
outside the classroom. This would (likely) be the strongest 
available signal for the students, and their device(s) would 
(likely) connect to these APs. You could invoke specific firewall 
policies for users on these APs to be different. For example, you 
could redirect all traffic to a captive portal instructing them that 
use of wireless during class is prohibited . . . or something to 
that effect.


Just an idea.

--
Ryan Holland
Network Engineer, Wireless
CIO - Infrastructure
614-292-9906   holland@osu.edu

On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:


I'm compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.
My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that 
restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?
Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting 
wireless access in classrooms let me know. Why didn't the solution 
work.
No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile 
broadband card from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in 
the classrooms, or that teaching techniques should improve.




Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology
UC Hastings College of the Law
urr...@uchastings.edu
x4718



Spam
Not spam
Forget 
previous vote


** Participation and subscription information for this 
EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found 
at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.




** Participation and subscription information for this 
EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.



--

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Justin Hao]

aruba can identify roles based on radius/groups and you can assign
policies using the aruba Policy enforcement firewall to limit access to
certain roles/ssids/profiles etc. you may want to review their
documentation to get more detail on these features

-Justin

Peter P Morrissey wrote:

  
  

  
  
  How
are you using Aruba to know what students to keep off and
when?
   
  Peter
M.
   
  
  
  From: The
EDUCAUSE
Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of gwill...@uccs.edu
  Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:50 PM
  To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
  Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in
classrooms
  
  
   
  We
use Aruba here, so like Chris Denver said, it’s not a
problem to just do it through the equipment.   But if you have
another vendor -  what about programming the captive portal page to
email
the professors about who logged into the page and put a disclaimer on
the page
that says that all logins are reviewed by the professor.  This way you
can
satisfy both those professors who want access and those who don’t. 
If I were a student, I sure wouldn’t want my logins showing up on the
professors email.  You could also use your syslogs to write a webpage
that
shows real time which people are logged in.
   
  
  
  From: The
EDUCAUSE
Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ryan
Holland
  Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:15 PM
  To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
  Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in
classrooms
  
  
   
  Nicholas,
  
   
  
  
  While I personally feel this is more of a
behavioral issue
to solve opposed to a technical one, one option would be to install APs
in the
restricted classrooms broadcasting the same ESSID as you do outside the
classroom. This would (likely) be the strongest available signal for
the
students, and their device(s) would (likely) connect to these APs. You
could
invoke specific firewall policies for users on these APs to be different. For
example, you could redirect all traffic to a captive portal instructing
them
that use of wireless during class is prohibited . . . or something to
that
effect.
  
  
   
  
  
  Just an idea.
  
  
   
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  --
Ryan Holland
Network Engineer, Wireless
CIO - Infrastructure
  
  
  614-292-9906
  holland@osu.edu
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
   
  
  
  On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:
  
   
  
  
  
  I’m
compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology
Committee.
  
  
  My
question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution
that restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?
  
  
  Also
if you have tried and were not successful in restricting
wireless access in classrooms let me know. Why didn’t the solution work.
  
  
  No
opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile
broadband card from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the
classrooms, or that teaching techniques should improve.  
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  
  
  
  
  Nicholas
Urrea
  
  
  Information
Technology
  
  
  UC
Hastings College of the Law
  
  
  urr...@uchastings.edu
  
  
  x4718
  
  
   
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Spam
  Not
spam
  Forget
previous vote
  
  **
Participation and subscription information for this
EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
  
   
  
  
  
   
  ** Participation and subscription
information for
this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 
  ** Participation and subscription
information for
this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 
  
**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
  


-- 
Justin Hao
Network Engineer
Texas A&M University
Networking and Information Security
j...@tamu.edu
(979)862-2162


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Peter P Morrissey]

How are you using Aruba to know what students to keep off and when?

Peter M.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of gwill...@uccs.edu
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:50 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

We use Aruba here, so like Chris Denver said, it's not a problem to just do it 
through the equipment.   But if you have another vendor -  what about 
programming the captive portal page to email the professors about who logged 
into the page and put a disclaimer on the page that says that all logins are 
reviewed by the professor.  This way you can satisfy both those professors who 
want access and those who don't.  If I were a student, I sure wouldn't want my 
logins showing up on the professors email.  You could also use your syslogs to 
write a webpage that shows real time which people are logged in.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Ryan Holland
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:15 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

Nicholas,

While I personally feel this is more of a behavioral issue to solve opposed to 
a technical one, one option would be to install APs in the restricted 
classrooms broadcasting the same ESSID as you do outside the classroom. This 
would (likely) be the strongest available signal for the students, and their 
device(s) would (likely) connect to these APs. You could invoke specific 
firewall policies for users on these APs to be different. For example, you 
could redirect all traffic to a captive portal instructing them that use of 
wireless during class is prohibited . . . or something to that effect.

Just an idea.

--
Ryan Holland
Network Engineer, Wireless
CIO - Infrastructure
614-292-9906   holland@osu.edu<mailto:holland@osu.edu>

On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:

I'm compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.
My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that restricts 
access to wireless internet in classrooms?
Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless access 
in classrooms let me know. Why didn't the solution work.
No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband card 
from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the classrooms, or that 
teaching techniques should improve.



Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology
UC Hastings College of the Law
urr...@uchastings.edu<mailto:urr...@uchastings.edu>
x4718



Spam<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=s>
Not spam<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=n>
Forget previous 
vote<https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=f>
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Voll, Toivo]

Consider what happens if the professor moves class, cancels class, lets people 
out early, or someone decides to skip class and work on a project for something 
else in a study area nearby, or is in on-campus dorms sick, trying to access 
class material online, or any number of similar scenarios. I don't see how 
these kinds of restrictions are workable - we've told our faculty that the 
wireless coverage serves people outside of just their classroom, and we cannot 
disable wireless for just one classroom - it is up to the instructor to police 
the class if they do not want computers or internet used. That being said, 
we've seen very few requests like this.

-Toivo Voll
(Not speaking for my employer or offering official policy.)

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Peter P Morrissey
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:37 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

Interesting. So if you could find a way to populate the access policy based 
upon the user's schedule of classes, you could deny them access to the wireless 
network during class times. The problem is that some professors encourage 
Internet access during class, so you would have to have an opt in by a 
professor/class preference.
You could do it by AP, but what if that AP serves multiple classrooms?
And, what if the student connects to an AP from an adjoining building?

I know of one professor who has their TA's patrol the classroom and  monitor 
what the students are doing. That may actually be cheaper, and more effective 
than a technical solution.

Peter M.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Drever
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:26 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

The Aruba wireless system has everything you need to control user access to the 
internet including: Per user session based firewall policy with time of day 
access, NAT, Routing, bandwidth rate limiting and the ability to kill access to 
rogue access points. We are quite pleased with its features.

Chris Drever - PSU Networking

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Urrea, Nick
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:03 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

I'm compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.
My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that restricts 
access to wireless internet in classrooms?
Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless access 
in classrooms let me know. Why didn't the solution work.
No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband card 
from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the classrooms, or that 
teaching techniques should improve.



Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology
UC Hastings College of the Law
urr...@uchastings.edu
x4718

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[gwillia5]

We use Aruba here, so like Chris Denver said, it's not a problem to just do
it through the equipment.   But if you have another vendor -  what about
programming the captive portal page to email the professors about who logged
into the page and put a disclaimer on the page that says that all logins are
reviewed by the professor.  This way you can satisfy both those professors
who want access and those who don't.  If I were a student, I sure wouldn't
want my logins showing up on the professors email.  You could also use your
syslogs to write a webpage that shows real time which people are logged in.

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Ryan Holland
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:15 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

 

Nicholas,

 

While I personally feel this is more of a behavioral issue to solve opposed
to a technical one, one option would be to install APs in the restricted
classrooms broadcasting the same ESSID as you do outside the classroom. This
would (likely) be the strongest available signal for the students, and their
device(s) would (likely) connect to these APs. You could invoke specific
firewall policies for users on these APs to be different. For example, you
could redirect all traffic to a captive portal instructing them that use of
wireless during class is prohibited . . . or something to that effect.

 

Just an idea.

 

--
Ryan Holland
Network Engineer, Wireless
CIO - Infrastructure

614-292-9906   holland@osu.edu

 

On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:





I'm compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.

My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that
restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?

Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless
access in classrooms let me know. Why didn't the solution work.

No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband
card from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the classrooms, or
that teaching techniques should improve.  

 

 



Nicholas Urrea

Information Technology

UC Hastings College of the Law

urr...@uchastings.edu

x4718

 

  _  


Spam <https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=s> 
Not <https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=n>  spam
Forget <https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=969718633&m=b51c1b6098e3&c=f>
previous vote

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
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http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

 

 

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discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Justin Hao]

an alternative solution may be to throttle/filter internet access
during class periods via packetshaping so that standard browsing would
work, but streaming/other applications would not, if you blocked
facebook/myspace/youtube/etc. it would remove the majority of
distractions for students in classrooms..
-- 
Justin Hao
Network Engineer
Texas A&M University
Networking and Information Security
j...@tamu.edu
(979)862-2162



Urrea, Nick wrote:

  
  
  

  
  I’m compiling research to give to our Faculty
Technology Committee.
  My question is has anybody successfully
implemented a
solution that restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?
  Also if you have tried and were not successful
in
restricting wireless access in classrooms let me know. Why didn’t the
solution work.
  No opinions please about how students can just
go buy a
mobile broadband card from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves
in the
classrooms, or that teaching techniques should improve.  
   
   
  
  Nicholas Urrea
  Information Technology 
  UC Hastings College of the Law
  urr...@uchastings.edu
  x4718
   
  
**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
  


-- 
Justin Hao
Network Engineer
Texas A&M University
Networking and Information Security
j...@tamu.edu
(979)862-2162


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Jim Gogan]

And what if you're utilizing LWAPP/CAPWAP as designed, and a professor 
disables an AP in one classroom, but all of the APs in adjoining 
classrooms increase their power to fill in the detected coverage gap?


-- jg

Peter P Morrissey wrote:
Interesting. So if you could find a way to populate the access policy 
based upon the user’s schedule of classes, you could deny them access to 
the wireless network during class times. The problem is that some 
professors encourage Internet access during class, so you would have to 
have an opt in by a professor/class preference.


You could do it by AP, but what if that AP serves multiple classrooms?

And, what if the student connects to an AP from an adjoining building?

 

I know of one professor who has their TA’s patrol the classroom and  
monitor what the students are doing. That may actually be cheaper, and 
more effective than a technical solution.


 


Peter M.

 

*From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] *On Behalf Of *Chris Drever

*Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:26 PM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

 

The Aruba wireless system has everything you need to control user access 
to the internet including: Per user session based firewall policy with 
time of day access, NAT, Routing, bandwidth rate limiting and the 
ability to kill access to rogue access points. We are quite pleased with 
its features.


 


Chris Drever - PSU Networking

 

*From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] *On Behalf Of *Urrea, Nick

*Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:03 PM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

 


I’m compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.

My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that 
restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?


Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless 
access in classrooms let me know. Why didn’t the solution work.


No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband 
card from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the 
classrooms, or that teaching techniques should improve.  

 

 




*Nicholas Urrea*

*/Information Technology /*

UC Hastings College of the Law

urr...@uchastings.edu

x4718

 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.




**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Peter P Morrissey]

Interesting. So if you could find a way to populate the access policy based 
upon the user's schedule of classes, you could deny them access to the wireless 
network during class times. The problem is that some professors encourage 
Internet access during class, so you would have to have an opt in by a 
professor/class preference.
You could do it by AP, but what if that AP serves multiple classrooms?
And, what if the student connects to an AP from an adjoining building?

I know of one professor who has their TA's patrol the classroom and  monitor 
what the students are doing. That may actually be cheaper, and more effective 
than a technical solution.

Peter M.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Drever
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:26 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

The Aruba wireless system has everything you need to control user access to the 
internet including: Per user session based firewall policy with time of day 
access, NAT, Routing, bandwidth rate limiting and the ability to kill access to 
rogue access points. We are quite pleased with its features.

Chris Drever - PSU Networking

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Urrea, Nick
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:03 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

I'm compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.
My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that restricts 
access to wireless internet in classrooms?
Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless access 
in classrooms let me know. Why didn't the solution work.
No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband card 
from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the classrooms, or that 
teaching techniques should improve.



Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology
UC Hastings College of the Law
urr...@uchastings.edu
x4718

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Chris Drever]

The Aruba wireless system has everything you need to control user access to
the internet including: Per user session based firewall policy with time of
day access, NAT, Routing, bandwidth rate limiting and the ability to kill
access to rogue access points. We are quite pleased with its features. 

 

Chris Drever - PSU Networking

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Urrea, Nick
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:03 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

 

I'm compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.

My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that
restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?

Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless
access in classrooms let me know. Why didn't the solution work.

No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband
card from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the classrooms, or
that teaching techniques should improve.  

 

 



Nicholas Urrea

Information Technology 

UC Hastings College of the Law

urr...@uchastings.edu

x4718

 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Ryan Holland]

Nicholas,

While I personally feel this is more of a behavioral issue to solve  
opposed to a technical one, one option would be to install APs in the  
restricted classrooms broadcasting the same ESSID as you do outside  
the classroom. This would (likely) be the strongest available signal  
for the students, and their device(s) would (likely) connect to these  
APs. You could invoke specific firewall policies for users on these  
APs to be different. For example, you could redirect all traffic to a  
captive portal instructing them that use of wireless during class is  
prohibited . . . or something to that effect.


Just an idea.

--
Ryan Holland
Network Engineer, Wireless
CIO - Infrastructure
614-292-9906   holland@osu.edu

On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Urrea, Nick wrote:


I’m compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.
My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that  
restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?
Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting  
wireless access in classrooms let me know. Why didn’t the solution  
work.
No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile  
broadband card from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in  
the classrooms, or that teaching techniques should improve.




Nicholas Urrea
Information Technology
UC Hastings College of the Law
urr...@uchastings.edu
x4718


Spam
Not spam
Forget previous vote
** Participation and subscription information for this  
EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/ 
.





**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Restricting of wireless access in classrooms

[Urrea, Nick]

I'm compiling research to give to our Faculty Technology Committee.

My question is has anybody successfully implemented a solution that
restricts access to wireless internet in classrooms?

Also if you have tried and were not successful in restricting wireless
access in classrooms let me know. Why didn't the solution work.

No opinions please about how students can just go buy a mobile broadband
card from a cellular carrier, or installing microwaves in the
classrooms, or that teaching techniques should improve.  

 

 



Nicholas Urrea

Information Technology 

UC Hastings College of the Law

urr...@uchastings.edu

x4718

 


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.