Re: [WSG] Table-less site not displaying in Mac IE?

2004-12-09 Thread patrik breitenmoser
hi,

it looks ok on ie osx. i made a screenshot so you can see yourself

http://www.digitalsushi.ch/screenshot.jpg

greetings
patirk breitenmoser


Am 09.12.2004 um 14:36 schrieb Marilyn Langfeld:

Looks fine here, OSX 10.3.5 on a TiPowerbook.

Yes, OS 10 is the same as OSX. One of those *great* marketing ideas!


Best regards,

Marilyn Langfeld
http://www.langfeldesigns.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+1.301.598.3300 business phone
+1.301.598.0532 fax
+1.202.390.8847 mobile
On Dec 9, 2004, at 7:52 AM, Bert Doorn wrote:

I'm stumped on this one (partly because I can't see the problem myself as I
don't have a Mac and can't afford one)

www.naturalhealthacademy.edu.au is valid xhtml1.0 strict with valid css.  It
looks fine in MSIE6, Firefox 1.0 and Opera 7.54 (on PC).  Also appears to be
fine on Safari (per Dan Vine's iCapture)

However, my client reported the following feedback:  A colleague of mine in
Canberra is unable to get our website up. He is running Macintosh OS 10 and
MS explorer

My client is concerned he may be losing a few visitors a month.Good ole
MSIE on Mac...   Of course, I could fix it by using a table for layout, but
in the spirit of web standards I'm trying not to.   Could someone with Mac
IE have a look at the site and tell me what they see (or don't see)?  Email
me off-list if you like.

If you do see a problem please let me know what you see (or don't see).  If
you have any ideas about the cause, I'm listening.  So far, all I can think
of is that it's something to do with margins or fixed/absolute positioning,
but I could be mistaken.

As an aside, is OS 10 the same as OS X?

Thanks in advance
--
Bert Doorn, Web Developer
Better Web Design
http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/
Fast-loading, user-friendly websites


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mit freundlichen grüssen
patrik breitenmoser


braincandy gmbh
fullservice kreativagentur
langgasse 91
ch-9008 st. gallen
phone: +41 (0)71 534 77 89
fax: +41 (0)71 534 77 20
mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.braincandy.ch
_


[WSG] Best approach

2004-12-09 Thread Kim Kruse
Hi,
I'm doing a template for a organization and the want a entry page from 
where people can select which page they want.
My problem is they want something like this 
http://www.esrum.dk/ny_web/esrum_forside.htm and they insist on having 
rollover effect for the images (image swap). Next problem is since it 
mostly schools using their website many have turned javascript off by 
default (according to their logs it's about 35%) so the sample above 
wont work for them (a sample they did themselves BTW)

I made a quick sample without the img swap thingy 
http://www.mouseriders.dk/esrum/index.htm but they insist on the img 
swap. So now I'm wondering which approach would be best using css and no 
javascript getting the layout as in my sample but with img swap?

Thanks for any help
Kim
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Re: [WSG] XHTML and Forums - A Red Rag and the Bull

2004-12-09 Thread Mordechai Peller
Steven Clark wrote:
Agree or not its a common event nowdays to be accosted by some 
one-issue madman or another over some standards related issue, not all 
of them in proper perspective either. 
I saw one of the threads to which you were referring at 
webdeveloper.com. I think you would have been better off just pointing 
out what some of the advantages of XHTML are, such as: future proof, 
XSLT, and easier debugging.
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Re: [WSG] Best approach

2004-12-09 Thread Kim Kruse
Thanks all... should keep me busy tonight :)
Kim
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[WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

2004-12-09 Thread Sam Hutchinson
...I can take it because I value the opions of users of this list :)

So do your best (/worst) *awkward grimace*

Hello again all,

Been beavering away on a new site:
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/PRE%20VALIDATION.htm

-still debugging for firefox, anybody want offer up fixes?

-real reason for this post is a site critique before I go steam-rollering
into filling it with content...

Oh and its already been suggested that the read is TOO much !?

Look forward to hearing any thoughts if anyones got time.

Oh and by the way it's fully validated xhtml  css.

Cheers ya'll


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RE: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

2004-12-09 Thread Ted Drake
Hi Sam
I couldn't tell if the disjointed, oddly overlapping elements were intentional 
or not. It looks like you have a conflict in your width or margins which make 
the banner on the right drop below the content on the left.  The scattered 
links on the right look like something is supposed to happen with them but the 
style is missing. Why are you duplicating the top nav below the header? I'm 
looking at it in firefox 1.0/win. The white text in red bar is difficult to 
read.
Ted


-Original Message-
From: Sam Hutchinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 10:19 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...


...I can take it because I value the opions of users of this list :)

So do your best (/worst) *awkward grimace*

Hello again all,

Been beavering away on a new site:
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/PRE%20VALIDATION.htm

-still debugging for firefox, anybody want offer up fixes?

-real reason for this post is a site critique before I go steam-rollering
into filling it with content...

Oh and its already been suggested that the read is TOO much !?

Look forward to hearing any thoughts if anyones got time.

Oh and by the way it's fully validated xhtml  css.

Cheers ya'll


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Re: [WSG] Best approach (new question)

2004-12-09 Thread Kim Kruse
Now I've looked at the samples and it seem it can't be done without 
having some kind of text as the link and they want to use their own font 
on the imgs. (I know... but they pay me and I do what they want... almost)

So can the same effect as a javascript img swap possible using CSS only?
Thanks in advance
Kim
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

2004-12-09 Thread haggis
Hello Sam;
It would be a really good idea to validate your document first. There are 44 
errors in your markup including a second doctype with an xml 
declaration! Fix those and I'll bet most of your problems will go away ... 
:o)
HTH's ...
Bill.

William Haggerty
VWH Web Services
http://vwh.ca
- Original Message - 
From: Sam Hutchinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 10:19 AM
Subject: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...


...I can take it because I value the opions of users of this list :)
So do your best (/worst) *awkward grimace*
Hello again all,
Been beavering away on a new site:
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/PRE%20VALIDATION.htm
-still debugging for firefox, anybody want offer up fixes?
-real reason for this post is a site critique before I go steam-rollering
into filling it with content...
Oh and its already been suggested that the read is TOO much !?
Look forward to hearing any thoughts if anyones got time.
Oh and by the way it's fully validated xhtml  css.
Cheers ya'll
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

2004-12-09 Thread Paul Novitski
At 10:19 AM 12/9/04, Sam Hutchinson wrote:
...I can take it because I value the opions of users of this list :)
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/PRE%20VALIDATION.htm

Sam,
Action Transport looks like a great project!  Here are some very quick 
comments:

I suggest making the left-hand thumbnails redundant links to each section, 
so that you can navigate either by clicking on read more or by clicking 
on the image next to it.

Your use of the same coloration for links and headlines is 
confusing.  Better I think to flag links uniquely so the visitor can learn 
quickly what text is active and what isn't.

The Birdbox image has fallen down below the left column, probably because 
you haven't allowed enough room for it to float next to the left col.  Try 
counting your pixels more carefully, or perhaps better yet design your 
layout more loosely so it won't break as easily.

I find the white text on red background (I was right to trust Action 
Transport...) too difficult to read.

I find the slowly unfolding nav submenus clever and irritating, and show 
off someone's javascript tricks more than they show off a concern for the 
site visitor.  I would greatly reduce the unfold duration or scrap it and 
just let the submenus pop down instantly.

When I hover over items in your right-panel nav menu, the text disappears 
(turns white?).

Resizing text larger in Firefox (whether using FF's controls or the a+ 
control on your page) garbles your page heading and renders the nav menu 
unusable.

Personally I find the stark red  purple a turn-off, but that's personal 
and I suspect I'm not your target audience.

Glancing at the front page I did catch a typo:  How can you get involed? 
missing a v.

Have fun
Paul 

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Re: [WSG] Best approach (new question)

2004-12-09 Thread Ben Curtis

Now I've looked at the samples and it seem it can't be done without 
having some kind of text as the link and they want to use their own 
font on the imgs. (I know... but they pay me and I do what they 
want... almost)

So can the same effect as a javascript img swap possible using CSS 
only?

At that point you use a unique set of images and css for each swap, 
probably assigned by id with the behavior outlined in a class. I 
haven't tested this, but I suspect you're looking for something like 
this:

style type=text/css
#foo { background: url(/img/foo.gif) no-repeat 0 0; }
#bar { background: url(/img/bar.gif) no-repeat 0 0; }
a.rollover:link{ background-position: 0px 0px; }
a.rollover:visited { background-position: 0px 10px; }
a.rollover:hover   { background-position: 0px 20px; }
a.rollover:active  { background-position: 0px 30px; }
/style
a href=foo.html id=foo class=rolloverimg src=/img/clear.gif 
height=10 width=20 alt=Foo //a
a href=bar.html id=bar class=rolloverimg src=/img/clear.gif 
height=10 width=20 alt=Bar //a

I'm not sure if this is entirely kosher. Maybe there's something more 
appropriate than a clear gif to make the link fill up some room? Would 
it be clickable if you simply gave foo and bar a height and width with 
display:block?

--
Ben Curtis
WebSciences International
http://www.websciences.org/
v: (310) 478-6648
f: (310) 235-2067

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Re: [WSG] Experimentations in XSLT

2004-12-09 Thread XStandard
Hi Jonathan,

Most XSLT users process data server-side and then send the result of the 
transformation to the client. This is a safer approach than sending XML and 
XSLT to the client.

XSLT is a wonderful technology. A while back we did some XML and XSLT training 
for the Canadian government. For those that want a hands on approach to 
learning XSLT, here are a few labs. Lab 4 lets you practice XPath and Lab 5 
lets you practice XSLT. Here is the link:

http://belus.com/training/

Also, Jonathan, I had a look at your XSLT. You can optimize it a bit if you 
replace several xsl:if with xsl:for-each or xsl:template.

Regards,
-Vlad
http://xstandard.com
XStandard Development Team



- Original Message -
From: Jonathan T. Sage [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 1:43 PM
Subject: [WSG] Experimentations in XSLT


 Good afternoon or insert more appropriate time of day

 Recently, after the pursuit of a site that does conform to XHTML 1.1
 and CSS2, I became very interested in the XSL/XSLT language, since my
 site has a XML CMS back end already.  I began to look at ways to cut
 out the PHP step.  My experimentations have proved to be very
 interesting, with 2 caveats:

 1.) Obviously 2 pass processing doesn't work.  Catching PHP embedded
 in the source XML becomes impossible.  At this time, I don't have a
 fix for this.

 2.) Firefox (in fact all gecko based browsers) do not support my
 method of embedding HTML in XML...  results are interesting, but
 expected.  Opera doesn't like this method at all, and IE6 displays
 perfectly.

 Since this list is standards based, and I've yet to see any real
 writeup about XSLT and what it is capable of, I figured a would share
 what I found with all of you.  More information about what I did is
 available here:

 http://jtsage.com/apathy/archives/2004/12/08/xslt-part-1/

 and here:

 http://jtsage.com/apathy/archives/2004/12/09/xslt-part-2/

 If anyone has any information on how to fix #2, I'd also love to hear
 it.  Hope this proves to be a good read!

 ~j

 --
 Jonathan T. Sage
 Theatrical Lighting / Set Designer
 Professional Web Design

 [HTTP://www.JTSage.com]
 [HTTP://design.JTSage.com]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: [WSG] Best approach (new question)

2004-12-09 Thread Pringle, Ron
 Now I've looked at the samples and it seem it can't be done without 
 having some kind of text as the link and they want to use 
 their own font 
 on the imgs. (I know... but they pay me and I do what they 
 want... almost)
 
 So can the same effect as a javascript img swap possible 
 using CSS only?
 
 Thanks in advance
 Kim

Kim-

I've mocked up an example for you.

http://www.aurora-il.org/testsite/problemsolving/hovertest.htm

http://www.aurora-il.org/testsite/problemsolving/hovertest.css


this uses the hover property on the DIV itself. There is a clear gif with an
A wrapped around it to provide for the link itself.

The images are set as background-image properties of the DIV itself.

One catch. This won't work in IE because it doesn't support the hover
property on the DIVs. However, if you you use the csshover.htc file, you can
make IE support it. I don't recall where the csshover.htc is located on the
web, but if you google it, I'm sure you'll find it.

Regards,
Ron
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RE: [WSG] Best approach (new question)

2004-12-09 Thread Pringle, Ron
 Now I've looked at the samples and it seem it can't be done without 
 having some kind of text as the link and they want to use 
 their own font 
 on the imgs. (I know... but they pay me and I do what they 
 want... almost)
 
 So can the same effect as a javascript img swap possible 
 using CSS only?
 
 Thanks in advance
 Kim

Kim-

I updated my example for you to include the csshover.htc. It now works in IE
as well as Opera and Gecko browsers.

You can grab the htc file from my server, at this link:

http://www.aurora-il.org/testsite/problemsolving/csshover.htc

You probably will want to implement the suggestion from one of the other
listmembers about using one image and just changing its position rather than
swapping images as I've done.

If I get the time, I'll update my example to include that as well.

Regards,
Ron
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Re: [WSG] Best approach (new question)

2004-12-09 Thread Tom Livingston
Hi all,
I have a slightly related question, and hopefully asking it will not 
dissolve into something a list mom will have to stomp on... so, here goes...

Just out of curiosity, why are some people turning javascript off? I 
have heard on lists that some see it as a security risk, but I have 
never heard of anyone's computer being compromised by js. Is it just an 
aversion to pop ups and window shake/resizing?

Again, I'm not debating the use of js, just wondering why people would 
turn it off.

TIA
Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
mlinc.com

Pringle, Ron wrote:
Now I've looked at the samples and it seem it can't be done without 
having some kind of text as the link and they want to use 
their own font 
on the imgs. (I know... but they pay me and I do what they 
want... almost)

So can the same effect as a javascript img swap possible 
using CSS only?

Thanks in advance
Kim

Kim-
I updated my example for you to include the csshover.htc. It now works in IE
as well as Opera and Gecko browsers.
You can grab the htc file from my server, at this link:
http://www.aurora-il.org/testsite/problemsolving/csshover.htc
You probably will want to implement the suggestion from one of the other
listmembers about using one image and just changing its position rather than
swapping images as I've done.
If I get the time, I'll update my example to include that as well.
Regards,
Ron
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Re: [WSG] Experimentations in XSLT

2004-12-09 Thread Matthew Cruickshank

Most XSLT users process data server-side and then send the result of the 
transformation to the client. This is a safer approach than sending XML and 
XSLT to the client.
Yeah, this is absolutely right. The typical xml publishing flow looks 
something like this,

[xml source (docbook/openoffice/xhtml)]
feeds into
[business logic xslt]
which feeds into
[web presentation logic xslt] or [print presentation logic xslt] or [pda 
presentation logic xslt]

and then it's sent to the outside world.
Typically this type of flow from one bit of xslt to the next is called a 
pipeline, and there's software to assist you in creating these and 
aggregating the results. You can construct pipelines in any language by 
pushing the output from one transformation into another, but these 
frameworks will cache each stage of the pipeline and skip the 
regeneration if the files haven't changed, and other features to ease 
development. Specifically, there's Apache Cocoon which has been in heavy 
use around the world for years. I've used it in a few commercial 
projects and it's one of those frameworks that makes the job so much 
easier. There's my ripoff of Cocoon in PHP called Phpilfer, 
http://holloway.co.nz/phpilfer which has some (in my opinion) important 
technical changes to make it faster than Cocoon (although less XML'y). 
Phpilfer isn't ready for production use yet but I'm putting out a site 
in it over christmas so that'll be a good test.

Mostly, the benefit of XSLT is that you start with these 
media-independent source files that you can convert to web, print, 
voice, xbrl, rss, any format, and it's a well-tested tech that people 
are using every day. If you're a publishing house, or you have a lot of 
content on your website, then these highly structured media-independent 
source files are your gold. People should be more wary of producing 
source documents, spending weeks editing them, and then locking them up 
in a loosely structured format (like MSWord, PDF) that other software 
can't easily get into. XML publishing is about fixing all that.

There's this mediocre presentation for the Wellington PHP user group a 
few years ago about XML publishing, 
http://holloway.co.nz/wellypug/publishing/

Jonathan T. Sage wrote:
Since this list is standards based, and I've yet to see any real
writeup about XSLT and what it is capable of, I figured a would share
what I found with all of you.  More information about what I did is
available here:
http://jtsage.com/apathy/archives/2004/12/08/xslt-part-1/
and here:
http://jtsage.com/apathy/archives/2004/12/09/xslt-part-2/
 

1) I think most people aren't sending XSLT to the browser.
2) The CDATA section should probably be just tags because it looks like 
XML to me. If you can't trust that your source is going to be valid XML 
then I guess you can use HTML Tidy on it.

Generally there are some approaches in XSLT that are good,
- Try to use many xsl:template matchs and xsl:apply-templates/ 
rather than matching the root node, writing a template, and copying in 
the bits you want. That way you be more discriminant about what's 
allowed through.
- Try to use namespaces, rather than writing tags, even if it means 
creating your own. As you're writing html, set the default namespace to 
XHTML (or html 4.01, whatever). That way if you integrate with another 
feed of xml you can distinguish your html from the other stuff.

Here's a good XSLT FAQ, maintained by my guru, Dave Pawson, 
http://dpawson.co.uk/xsl/sect2/sect21.html

.Matthew Cruickshank
http://holloway.co.nz/
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RE: [WSG] Experimentations in XSLT

2004-12-09 Thread Ted Drake
What is the cms that you are trying? Is it mosxml? I've been looking into that 
one and would be interested in your opinion. I haven't gotten it to work but I 
think the product looks promising. 


Jonathan T. Sage wrote:

Since this list is standards based, and I've yet to see any real
writeup about XSLT and what it is capable of, I figured a would share
what I found with all of you.  More information about what I did is
available here:

http://jtsage.com/apathy/archives/2004/12/08/xslt-part-1/

and here:

http://jtsage.com/apathy/archives/2004/12/09/xslt-part-2/
  


1) I think most people aren't sending XSLT to the browser.
2) The CDATA section should probably be just tags because it looks like 
XML to me. If you can't trust that your source is going to be valid XML 
then I guess you can use HTML Tidy on it.

Generally there are some approaches in XSLT that are good,

- Try to use many xsl:template matchs and xsl:apply-templates/ 
rather than matching the root node, writing a template, and copying in 
the bits you want. That way you be more discriminant about what's 
allowed through.
- Try to use namespaces, rather than writing tags, even if it means 
creating your own. As you're writing html, set the default namespace to 
XHTML (or html 4.01, whatever). That way if you integrate with another 
feed of xml you can distinguish your html from the other stuff.

Here's a good XSLT FAQ, maintained by my guru, Dave Pawson, 
http://dpawson.co.uk/xsl/sect2/sect21.html


.Matthew Cruickshank
http://holloway.co.nz/
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N.X+inZv+hymjl.f.wq(b(,)azX)i

[WSG] Float Issue

2004-12-09 Thread Chris Kennon
Hi,
the following layout url works locally in firefox, mozilla, ie 5 mac 
even.  When uploaded to a server, the right column, secondary, is atop 
main. The isp is not to blame, the site was tested out of the subdomain 
so the scripts are not broken. This is not a .php question, the 
question is with the css.

http://working.ckimedia.com/index.php

CK
__
Knowing is not enough, you must apply;
willing is not enough, you must do.
---Bruce Lee
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Re: [WSG] Experimentations in XSLT

2004-12-09 Thread Lindsay Evans
Hi Jonathan,

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:43:28 -0500, Jonathan T. Sage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 If anyone has any information on how to fix #2, I'd also love to hear
 it.  Hope this proves to be a good read!

Try removing the CDATA delimeters  adding the XHTML namespace to the
BODYTEXT element:
BODYTEXT xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml;
h1...

-- 
Lindsay Evans
http://lindsayevans.com/
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Re: [WSG] text-align problem.

2004-12-09 Thread Rob Mientjes
How about display:blocking the anchors and then floating them to the right?


On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:26:53 +1100, Joshua Leung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Morning people.
 
 I'm having problems justifying some text in a simple manner, could anyone
 help?
 
 I want to change.
 
 this:
 
 -
 By Email:
 Administration: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Projects: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Services: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Scott Nicholson: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Managing Director
 -
 
 into this:
 
 -
 
 By Email:
 Administration: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Projects:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Services:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Scott Nicholson:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Managing Director
 -
 
 (notice the aligned email address's in the second version )
 
 I'm trying to do this without creating another DIV ( I seem to go crazy with
 DIV's usually )
 
 I've tried:
 
 #content-right p a { text-align: right; }
 
 and tried to create a span around the anchor tag and then
 { text-align: right } that
 
 but they both seem to do nothing :(
 
 If there is no other way than to create another div inside my #content-right
 div, then I will concede!
 
 Here is the page source: http://www.triplejosh.com/work/metro/contact.html
 
 Here is the page CSS:
 http://www.triplejosh.com/work/metro/stylesheetMetro.css
 
 The page is validated in xHTML Transitional . but I think im going to start
 using Strict as I will come across less problems in cross browser
 compatibility, is that right?
 
 cheers,
 - Josh -
 [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]
 
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-- 
Cheers,
Rob.
» http://zooibaai.nl
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[WSG] question about multiple stylesheets

2004-12-09 Thread Helen . Rysavy
Hi everyone

Could someone please enlighten me.

I have a situation where I have 5 style sheets imported by a main style
sheet (it was getting way too complicated so I decided to split of specific
areas into their own stylesheet)

In my main style sheet I have set my font in the body tag, e.g. 85% font
family etc.

My question is this - do the other style sheets set their fonts against
this body tag so I can say another font is relative to that one or do I
have to set it again?  E.g. if I wanted sidebar text to be smaller in the
stylesheet that sets the sidebar, would I say that the sidebar is say .9
ems and it would be .9ems of the 85% that is set in the body tag in the
main stylesheet, or would it be independent of that and be .9ems of
whatever the browser is set at.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers
Helen
***
Helen Rysavy
Web Designer, Teaching  Learning Development
Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909
Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cdu.edu.au
CRICOS Provider No: 00300K
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[WSG] First Wellington WSG meeting

2004-12-09 Thread Mike Brown
ok, so I'm so not a blogger! But my first attempt - a very brief rundown 
of the Wellington meeting - is here:
http://discuss.webstandardsgroup.org/archives/18.htm

It was a great meeting. We had close to 40 show up and there's a lot of 
interest in the group and getting it working well next year.

Thanks to everyone who showed up, and to Terry Wood for his help and 
presentation! I'm looking forward to a lot of good things coming from this.

Oh, and of course thanks to Russ and Peter and others here for the help 
and impetus to set things up in Wellington.


Regards
Mike Brown

SIGNIFY LTD :: the logic behind

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique - do your worst...

2004-12-09 Thread Czeslaw Liebert
i agree that using the same color for the links and the headlines is 
confusing ( i tried to click on the headline when i saw the read more link)

when clicking on a link in the drop-down menu for the first time the links 
slide a bit (a few pixels) to left; looks like you have to re-look your css 
for :hover and :visited

personally i do not like drop down menus. but this is very subjective one...
the js used for resizing text is, hm.., acting strange; when you first 
choose to enlarge the font and then choose to do the oposite, the -a 
changes the font from +1 to -1, not to 0; or is it supposed to work that way ?

i strangely like the color scheme: purple and red...
At 19:19 2004-12-09, you wrote:
...I can take it because I value the opions of users of this list :)
So do your best (/worst) *awkward grimace*
Hello again all,
Been beavering away on a new site:
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/PRE%20VALIDATION.htm
.
---
Czes³aw Liebert
http://www.78and85.com/
tel. (+48) (0) 504 425 892
mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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