Re: [WSG] skip flash intro question
Hi The first thing you should do, and it's probably a topic for project decision maker/manager is to ask the question... if we need a skip link then is the intro useful in the first place?. If the intro describes the company somehow then serve the homepage and provide a link to the flash piece on that page. This will solve all your problems for everyone, not just screen reader users. Plenty of resources on this topic somewhere on the web and is probably outside the WSG list scope. That said, my thoughts would be on a skip intro - *stick the link in plain text at the start of the document so that everyone can hit it if they want. *set a cookie on the user, read it when they come back and serve the real home page by sending a Location: header to the browser. As a developer I'd personally do what I describe in the first paragraph (make take some selling though) Cheers James PS don't put skip links in the flash move... ! don't laugh .. it has been done! On 4/16/05, Lisa B. McLaughlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering if a site would be more accessible if the flash intro (never mind how it's a bad idea to have a flash intro!) skipped automatically if the viewer had seen the intro before. I'm also wondering if I could detect browser for the sight impaired and skip the intro then too. I'm new to javascript and flash too so any comments (directly is fine) are appreciated. Thanks, Lisa ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] i-frame and Div Overflow auto
Hi, Which is more standards compliant the i-frame of div overflow auto or scroll. Some issues in version 4 browsers exist with the div method, but what share of the viewing populace uses any version 4 browser. What problems are presented by either method in alternative media, such as handheld and web TV, which are often based on older technology? CK __ Knowing is not enough, you must apply; willing is not enough, you must do. ---Bruce Lee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] i-frame and Div Overflow auto
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:29:54 +0100, Chris Kennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which is more standards compliant the i-frame of div overflow auto or scroll. Some issues in version 4 browsers exist with the div method, but what share of the viewing populace uses any version 4 browser. Iframe has bunch of serious problems that frames generally cause, and you can easily hide CSS from rubbish browsers, so I'd say use div, if you have to. -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Subject: Re: [WSG] Quirks mode vs Standards mode
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 07:04:57 +0200, Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sarah, Guess it is confusing to many newbies Newbie David raises hand... On this page you write: IE6 will go into quirks mode if there's anything above the DTD in our source-code. We may put a comment or whatever up there at the top, but I use an ***xml prolog***. I wish I could remember where I read that even ...and leave the philosophical part to my bug-hunting cat: http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/molly_1_06.html Lots of fun ahead... regards Georg -- `I don't even have an e-mail address. I have reached an age where my main purpose is not to receive messages.' --- Umberto Eco, quoted in the New Yorker http://www.dlaakso.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Subject: Re: [WSG] Quirks mode vs Standards mode
David Laakso wrote: On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 07:04:57 +0200, Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IE6 will go into quirks mode if there's anything above the DTD in our source-code. We may put a comment or whatever up there at the top, but I use an ***xml prolog***. Yes, there's an error on a page I referred to. Wouldn't be the first time I've got that one wrong. :-) Correction: I use an *XML declaration* on top to trigger IE6 quirks mode. Thanks for reminding me. I'll fix that page. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Subject: Re: [WSG] Quirks mode vs Standards mode-Correction.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 07:04:57 +0200, Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sarah, Guess it is confusing to many newbies Newbie timidly raises hand... On this http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_02_01.htmlpage you write: IE6 will go into quirks mode if there's anything above the DTD in our source-code. We may put a comment or whatever up there at the top, but I use an ***xml prolog***. I wish I could remember where I read that even Tanik Celik gets it wrong-- it's a declaration *not* a prolog. Newbie ducks to avoid being pummeled, and slithers back into confused mode... regards Georg ~d -- `I don't even have an e-mail address. I have reached an age where my main purpose is not to receive messages.' --- Umberto Eco, quoted in the New Yorker http://www.dlaakso.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Quirks mode vs Standards mode
Georg, I think the decision has more to do with maximising the expectation that your design will appear the same on any browser than to do with the features that are available. Also allowing that expectation to continue as standards and browsers move forward and browsers implement standards more fully. This being achieved by conforming to W3C specifications rather than the whim of each browser developer. In an ideal future we would have left behind browsers and browser versions that relied on Quirks mode behaviours, and no hacks or workarounds would be needed to display pages on different user agents. That may be a way off yet, but I don't see it happening at all unless we take the first steps in that direction. So I try to use standards mode whenever I can (which for me tends to be almost all of the time). Practical implications of that are that on our i18n site XHTML 1.0 pages that are served as text/html are normally uploaded without the xml declaration but in utf-8*. [btw: The links at the bottom of http://www.w3.org/International/articles/serving-xhtml/ lead you to usefully detailed descriptions of differences between Standards and Quirks modes on Mozilla, Opera, and IE.] RI * An XML declaration is required for an XML document if the encoding of the document is other than UTF-8 or UTF-16 and the encoding is not provided by a higher level protocol, ie. the HTTP header. (For more about the implications of this on character encoding choices see http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/tutorial-char-enc/ Richard Ishida W3C contact info: http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ W3C Internationalization: http://www.w3.org/International/ Publication blog: http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun Sent: 15 April 2005 11:52 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Quirks mode vs Standards mode John Britsios wrote: When a document begins with an ?xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8? declaration. IE 6 for Windows doen't see the Doctype, so it lapses into quirks mode. Therefore I would suggest you not to use it. Might you be kind enough to tell me what IE6 has to offer in standard mode that it doesn't have in quirks mode -- apart from http://www.w3.org/International/articles/serving-xhtml/ this? I'm asking because after 2 years of studies on the subject, I still haven't found anything useful in IE6' standard mode, but I may have missed something. seriously Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] CSS Zen Garden piss take, anyone got link?
Hi all, Don't know if anyone remembers seeing a sort of rip off of CSS Zen Garden a while back? Someone did a manky looking old school design, not on the main site. I'm after the URL if anyone has it. Cheers :) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] CSS Zen Garden piss take, anyone got link?
http://brucelawson.co.uk/garden ? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Awards / Endorsements for quality websites?
I was wondering if anyone knew of a popular sites to promote semanitc or compliant (or good in general) websites? Furthermore, if there was a site or an award that would be considered quite an achievement or endorsement for your work? I have submitted several items to www.w3cSites.com, however despite the fact that one of our submissions (our creativehq website) has been hand-picked to be featured on its homepage and therefore giving us alot of traffic, it seems that in general that sites submitted to w3csites are uninspiring--too much focus seems to go on design, rather than the coding, and very few items seem to be a truely commercial nature; I would suggest that the wirelessdataforum.org.nz website I mentioned a few weeks back is much more worthy that the creative-hq site which won, for example. (BTW, thanks to every one who commented on the wirelessforum site, much of your feedback is either now done, or before queued up to done over the forthcoming week.). Siggy ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] markup readability (was: newspaper format)
This is a great issue and one where I think the WSG can take the lead and put forward a standard. To Patrick's comment 'header' is a tricky one and your points about its print origins are very valid. Perhaps we can take that and still use the print reference by calling it 'masthead' as this actually does refer to all the elements you spoke of and doesn't have the same presentational weight as 'header'. Perhaps there can be a list of appropriate 'values' for IDs or classes. Most of us already use: container wrapper header/masthead nav content footer Maybe we can formalise this list so that it becomes a 'see-if-any-of-these-are-relevant-first' list of values that people can use. If what they need is not on the list then they can make up their own... If anyone wants to add to this list maybe we can pass it around and when it gets comprehensive enough, put it up on the WSG site as a resource. Just a thought... Richard ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Zen Garden piss take, anyone got link?
Rebecca Cox wrote: Don't know if anyone remembers seeing a sort of rip off of CSS Zen Garden a while back? Someone did a manky looking old school design, not on the main site. Off topic, but I remember Dave Shea sending me a chuckling reply when I pointed him to my own - admittedly super simple - joke http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/20/ :) -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Awards / Endorsements for quality websites?
http://www.webstandardsawards.com/ Is one site that showcases good design and standards. http://www.weeklystandards.com/ This was a great site, and it looks like it is about to get going again. There is two. Not really sure about all of the other generic Award sites, seems like you get awards for just about anything on some of them! A good standards base site, should be reward enough!! Plus client satisfaction of course! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Sigurd Magnusson Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 9:18 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Awards / Endorsements for quality websites? I was wondering if anyone knew of a popular sites to promote semanitc or compliant (or good in general) websites? Furthermore, if there was a site or an award that would be considered quite an achievement or endorsement for your work? I have submitted several items to www.w3cSites.com, however despite the fact that one of our submissions (our creativehq website) has been hand-picked to be featured on its homepage and therefore giving us alot of traffic, it seems that in general that sites submitted to w3csites are uninspiring--too much focus seems to go on design, rather than the coding, and very few items seem to be a truely commercial nature; I would suggest that the wirelessdataforum.org.nz website I mentioned a few weeks back is much more worthy that the creative-hq site which won, for example. (BTW, thanks to every one who commented on the wirelessforum site, much of your feedback is either now done, or before queued up to done over the forthcoming week.). Siggy ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Awards / Endorsements for quality websites?
Sigurd Magnusson wrote: I was wondering if anyone knew of a popular sites to promote semanitc or compliant (or good in general) websites? Guild of Accessible Web Designers have a 'Site of the Month' award, voting is by members only, you can nominate a site at http://www.gawds.org/poll/nominate.php Regards Jason ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] markup readability (was: newspaper format)
2005/4/18, Richard Czeiger [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Maybe we can formalise this list so that it becomes a 'see-if-any-of-these-are-relevant-first' list of values that people can use. If what they need is not on the list then they can make up their own... I agree this point. I think it should be useful especially for beginners, and it may prevent them from using presentational names. The list could be a kind of good dictionary, I guess. But, every site has its own name space controlled by its original naming rule. The list you're suggesting has its own rule, I guess. So, my suggestion is the list should be given with the rule so that users can customize the rule and make their own name space. It's just my thought. -- Kazuhito Kidachi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] markup readability
Kazuhito Kidachi wrote: I agree this point. I think it should be useful especially for beginners, and it may prevent them from using presentational names. The list could be a kind of good dictionary, I guess. But, every site has its own name space controlled by its original naming rule. The list you're suggesting has its own rule, I guess. So, my suggestion is the list should be given with the rule so that users can customize the rule and make their own name space. It should never be a *rule*. This sort of thing can and should only ever fall under the moniker of best practice examples. -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] skip flash intro question
hi there, I'm wondering if a site would be more accessible if the flash intro (never mind how it's a bad idea to have a flash intro!) skipped automatically if the viewer had seen the intro before. I'm also wondering if I could detect browser for the sight impaired and skip the intro then too. I'd suggest a couple of broad guidelines for Flash intros: 1) Avoid if possible :) 2) Ensure the skip link is not embedded in the Flash itself. 3) Ensure the OBJECT tag has alternate content for users with Flash disabled (not to mention search bots). If you want to auto-detect something I'd suggest detecting whether Flash is enabled (script gurus tell me this is possible) and skip if it's not. Again, remember to include alternate content. cheers, h -- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Unicode Chars don't render in bold?
I'm working on this website for a charitable organisation: http://www.lienhoatemple.org.au/vi/index.html and I don't know what it looks like to you, but in my browser (FireFox 1.0 Mac) the Vietnamese characters which should be bold or italic are coming out as plain. It's only the Vietnamese characters it happens to, i.e. characters which are also found in French, like a-acute or e-circumflex, appear fine, it's only the ones with the special Vietnamese diacritics which don't display properly. I'd be interested in any light anyone could shed on this... Have You Validated Your Code? John Horner(+612 / 02) 9333 3488 Senior Developer, ABC Online http://www.abc.net.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Quirks mode vs Standards mode
Richard, you wrote: I think the decision has more to do with maximising the expectation that your design will appear the same on any browser than to do with the features that are available. Also allowing that expectation to continue as standards and browsers move forward and browsers implement standards more fully. Let's get rid of all possible misunderstandings here: I use standards for all they are worth -- all the time, but I won't let standards put limits on what I can do -- ever. I have made my decision: to take standards as far as I can stretch them -- and maybe a bit beyond. My designs *do* appear the same in all standard compliant browsers, and even in some not very standard compliant ones. My expectation may be a bit too influenced by reality. No matter how good the standards are, we still have to get our web pages -- design and all -- through those browsers. My preferences happens to be Opera, Safari and Firefox (in that order) at the moment -- *in standards mode*, but that won't quite cut it as we all know. I hope you don't mean that I should leave out some *standard-features*, just because some browsers can't handle them. Wouldn't be much left of W3C standards if I followed such a line. Instead: once there's _one_ browser that can handle a standard-feature, it will be tried and tested to see if I can make any use of it. I never use any browser-specific features, unless I need them as tools for simulating standard-features. Everyone who know Internet Explorer understands what that means. This being achieved by conforming to W3C specifications rather than the whim of each browser developer. Fine, but there is *no real standard mode* in IE6. It just so happens that the old IE5.0 quirks mode and the W3C standards are fairly identical -- apart from the box model, and IE6 has both box models. Not a big deal in my opinion. All other differences are related to incomplete and/or not too well defined standards, and a few hundred thousand browser-whims, flaws and bugs. What's a whim or a flaw or a bug doesn't matter all that much as long as I can get through. In an ideal future we would have left behind browsers and browser versions that relied on Quirks mode behaviours, and no hacks or workarounds would be needed to display pages on different user agents. That may be a way off yet, but I don't see it happening at all unless we take the first steps in that direction. So I try to use standards mode whenever I can (which for me tends to be almost all of the time). I do to, but Microsoft's IE6 browser do something it isn't supposed to do. It makes standards mode conditional by using a standard part of my page code as a trigger, thus ignoring standard mode. I've chosen to ignore this whim of a browser developer, as it is not me who are at fault here. I have no influence on IE6' mode moods. IF Microsoft wants their browser fixed, they can do so themselves. I don't expect that to happen in my lifetime, but it doesn't bother me. Also, as far as I know: the DTD isn't supposed to act as a mode-switch either, but that's what it is used as by the browsers. Guess they don't have much of a choice really, since there are still a lot of non-standard web pages being produced on top of all the old stuff that's rotting out here. Actually: I hardly ever write a DTD or an xml declaration. HTMLTidy do it for me while checking that I haven't left any human bugs in my source code. The W3C validator is a good tool for catching human bugs too, but it hardly ever finds any in my source code. HTMLTidy is the only useful piece of software I've found for web page development, and I use it to clean up my pages and get proper encoding of my Norwenglish lines of text into numeric entities (UTF-8) where needed. Practical implications of that are that on our i18n site XHTML 1.0 pages that are served as text/html are normally uploaded without the xml declaration but in utf-8*. So, your pages on the W3C site are tuned to follow the whim of a browser developer. Doesn't exactly prove any point. On the other hand: this is the real world, and it is far from being ideal. I read available information on the W3C site regularly since that's the only source I find somewhat reliable and in some details. I'm more interested in how a conforming browser should behave than in guidelines for web site developers. If no browser can render it, then those guidelines will just have to wait. Most browser have changelogs which I check to see how far they are supposed to have come. That's only of interest when they fail, which they do all the time. That's when the fun begins. :-) regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility
Oh Damn, I guess I will have to make it visible again. I have only tested it on FF, IE6 and IE5. FYI, on the first tab Opera 8 beta 3 jumps to the name input at the bottom. h -- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] validation errors
Hi I have a page in the site I am working on (http://learnline.cdu.edu.au/wip/sbi240/module3/agriculture.html) that won't validate because of an external link I have to the Australian Consumers' Association - http://www.choice.com.au/defaultView.aspx?id=102314catId=100165 I'm getting these sorts of errors Line 298, column 70: cannot generate system identifier for general entity catId Line 298, column 70: general entity catId not defined and no default entity Line 298, column 75: reference not terminated by REFC delimiter Line 298, column 75: reference to external entity in attribute value Is there any way to get the page to validate? Any help is much appreciated. Thank you Helen *** Helen Rysavy Web Designer, Teaching Learning Development Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cdu.edu.au CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] validation errors
This needs to be rewritten as: http://www.choice.com.au/defaultView.aspx?id=102314amp;catId=100165 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I have a page in the site I am working on (http://learnline.cdu.edu.au/wip/sbi240/module3/agriculture.html) that won't validate because of an external link I have to the Australian Consumers' Association - http://www.choice.com.au/defaultView.aspx?id=102314catId=100165 I'm getting these sorts of errors Line 298, column 70: cannot generate system identifier for general entity catId Line 298, column 70: general entity catId not defined and no default entity Line 298, column 75: reference not terminated by REFC delimiter Line 298, column 75: reference to external entity in attribute value Is there any way to get the page to validate? Any help is much appreciated. Thank you Helen *** Helen Rysavy Web Designer, Teaching Learning Development Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cdu.edu.au CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] validation errors
http://www.choice.com.au/defaultView.aspx?id=102314catId=100165 I'm getting these sorts of errors Line 298, column 70: cannot generate system identifier for general entity catId You need to replace the character in the URL with amp;. The short version of why this is a problem is in HTML, followed by a string of characters is a character entity, like eacute; for an e with an accent. The validator thinks you've used an unknown entity. Have You Validated Your Code? John Horner(+612 / 02) 9333 3488 Senior Developer, ABC Online http://www.abc.net.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Unicode Chars don't render in bold?
On 18 Apr 2005, at 11:54 am, John Horner wrote: I'm working on this website for a charitable organisation: http://www.lienhoatemple.org.au/vi/index.html and I don't know what it looks like to you, but in my browser (FireFox 1.0 Mac) the Vietnamese characters which should be bold or italic are coming out as plain. It's only the Vietnamese characters it happens to, i.e. characters which are also found in French, like a-acute or e-circumflex, appear fine, it's only the ones with the special Vietnamese diacritics which don't display properly. I'd be interested in any light anyone could shed on this... Safari (1.3) does the same. IE Mac has even more serious problems. Of course, the fonts you use (Georgia, Verdana,...) do not contain those glyphs, the browser goes looking at whatever fallback it can find on your system. If you have a real Vietnamese font installed, it might work better, although FF Mac has loads of problems with East Asian fonts. I have that problem often with special Japanese characters, even with the correct Japanese fonts available. Even then, a next problem is, does that font contain glyphs for bold or italic ? If not, the browser might attempt to interpolate (Firefox) or not (Safari, Opera 7.5). And for those special characters, more often than not FF doesn't interpolate. For both FF and Safari, it might help if you specify 'Lucida Grande' as the first font-family (sans-serif). I'm not aware of any trick for sans-serif. And using shorthand (font: bold 1em/1.3 'lucida grande', verdana, sans-serif). Here is a little experiment done for Japanese text. http://dev.l-c-n.com/safari/japanese.php (and it appears that Safari 1.3 tightened the rules even more, not sure if it is a bug or what, haven't investigate that one yet). Some more reading matter: http://weblog.delacour.net/archives/2005/04/ bitstream_vera_not_for_me_thanks.php Philippe ---/--- Philippe Wittenbergh now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/ code | design | web projects : http://www.l-c-n.com/ IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Zen Garden piss take, anyone got link?
On 4/18/05, Rebecca Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Don't know if anyone remembers seeing a sort of rip off of CSS Zen Garden a while back? Someone did a manky looking old school design, not on the main site. I'm after the URL if anyone has it. http://www.tastydirt.com/zen/zengarden.htm Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Unicode Chars don't render in bold?
Thanks to everyone who's responded so far. This in particular from Philippe seems to have fixed the immediate problem: For both FF and Safari, it might help if you specify 'Lucida Grande' as the first font-family (sans-serif). I'm not aware of any trick for sans-serif. And using shorthand (font: bold 1em/1.3 'lucida grande', verdana, sans-serif). I think you meant I'm not aware of any trick for serif in the middle there? Despite the fact that these problems exist, I think it's still better to use Unicode, that being the standard, rather than any hacky windows-vietnamese-encoding, hope-for-special-fonts solution. I'll sleep better at night this way*. But perhaps I should put a link somewhere along the lines of This site uses Unicode, if you're having problems... [* Funny how Buddhism and web development go together, isn't it? Number 5 on the Eightfold Path is that one should earn one's living in a righteous way.] Have You Validated Your Code? John Horner(+612 / 02) 9333 3488 Senior Developer, ABC Online http://www.abc.net.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
