Re: [WSG] Web design education
Your comments reminded me that I had neglected to mention something else regarding my TAFE experiences. Perhaps I should mention that I am 50 years of age and attended as a mature age student and not someone out of high school, however despite all amounts of agitating and lobbying, the Bendigo TAFE refused to provide access to Firefox or Opera or any other browser apart from IE. That was the only browser that you could use to access the outside world. You couldn't install or run your own versions locally, so consequently Firefox and the Web Developer Extension were not available to test your sites or ensure that code was valid. Maybe this will change in the future, but it has to come from the top. The thing that I found most amazing was that the IT people in charge of the networks had the say over the people delivering the courses. It was actually the network administrators that stymied the efforts of the lecturers by denying access to better browsers and tools. You would have thought that IT professionals would be far more aware of the benefits of using compliant browsers and be implementing these in our educational institutions. Regards, Ric Michael Nelson wrote: Ric Raftis wrote: It was interesting reading your post James because it seems that TAFEs across the country may vary widely despite courses supposedly being drawn from a national based syllabus and providing national accreditation. Related to this, I reckon one of the biggest problems causing a lack of standards in Web design education is a lack of collaboration. Each facilitator/lecturor is re-inventing the wheel with activities and resources largely due to IP restrictions within their workplace. In reality, many facilitators just end up re-using the same resources that's been used for the last 5 years because on their own they don't have time to update both their own skills and the resources they use. The ironic thing is that (nearly) all the best info on Web Design topics is being shared freely by professional designers on their blogs/sites! ... I mean, with excellent sites like http://webdesignfromscratch.com/ and http://maxdesign.com.au/ published by professionals, what is the role of an educator? My take is that if lecturors and facilitators were able to collaboratively create and update flexible learning pathways from all the great free stuff out there, we'd be in a better position to help the uptake of standards in Web design education. (Plug) : 'cause of this, I've started setting up a WebDesign Wikibook over at: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Web_Design http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Web_Design Really it's just ordering and grouping all the great resources out there created by you professionals into some sort of learning pathway with ideas for activities... Feel free to contribute :) -- Michael Nelson http://liveandletlearn.net/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] CSS Holy Gruel
Hi Al, nice layout, future proof and all, The only bummer is that it sets off my i.e content blocker. -looked at the javascript and my vision got blurry. Is there anything to look out for when playing with the column widths? -thanks kvnmcwebn ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Re: Web design education
So here I am With regard to the recent rant about my teaching materials: Most of the material on that site dates from 2003. It was due to be revised last summer but I left for a new job. If the new incumbent has not yet changed it, there's not much that I can do about it. I still have a version of that material which I use in a different way in my new job, but when it does get used (as reference rather than direct teaching), I do point out to students that some of it is out of date. Had I completed the revision in 2005 it would certainly have included CSS positioning and de-emphasised the use of tables for layout. Students were told in a different lesson about the need to ensure that tables linearise and are accessible to different browser types, screenreaders etc. Their grading system reflected this. The course was designed to be taken by non-specialists. It was made clear to students that at the end of the course, those who had been grabbed by the subject would need to look more deeply into issues such as accessibility and emerging technologies such as CSS positioning before they could consider themselves web designers. Maybe in the eyes of some the above is just a set of excuses for what you consider a big crime against accessibility, but one of the things I always did was encourage feedback - that is precisely why the material was publicly accessible and not restricted access - though as you have proved this also opens up the material to criticism from those who may know more about it than me (like many junior academics I am - or was at the time this course was created - obliged to teach in subjects which are not my specialism). It does strike me though that the best response of the original poster might have been a polite e-mail to me about it (which to be fair some other posters did do) rather than ranting on a private list about how terrible it all is. All the latter does is exacerbate the appearance of WSG and similar fora as being cliquey. But that is by the by. The feedback has been noted. i would also support the other recent post regarding the great difficulty of persuading IT administrators to accept the need for alternative technologies. For a time in 2003-4 ONLY IE was available to students until Mozilla was grudgingly added in 2004. The situation in my new job in Manchester is slightly, but not much, better. Anyway, that is another topic. Thanks, Drew -- Dr. Drew Whitworth, School of Education, University of Manchester ID cards 'protect you from the flu' - UK Government (possibly) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Target sued over non-accessible site
Legally courts can and will regulate companies. It's been happening for years! We tell them the required minimum wage, the maximum working hours, we regulate overtime, we tell them to put wheelchair ramps in front of their doors, we zone their buildings, we make them get permits, we do health inspections, etc. etc. etc. We have all these laws in place to protect people. People are guaranteed freedom, not companies. No, the courts cannot force me to make my website accessible, but they can force Target Inc. Co. TM (R) to make their website accessible, just like they can force Target to do a lot of other things, because Target is not a person. It is a seperate entity. It is subject to the rule of the courts. And hopefully the courts are interpreting the laws correctly and deciding what the people want, in applying it to their decisions. I know it gets sketchy after that, but that is how things are supposed to work. We need to stop arguing with each other about the legal basis of this case and just wait and see whether or not the courts will apply the ADA to this website. It's that simple, and hopefully we can now get to what we should be discussing here, that is, the technical reasons why Target.com is not accessible and identifying other company websites that are also making the same mistakes. That's all. Courts adjudicate, not regulate. Regulation is a legislative function in the United State. Courts can and do discerne previously unkown rights. But it is the legislative branch which sets limits on the exercise of those rights with the court's subsequent agreement. And since Santa Clara County vs Southern Pacific in 1886, corporations have been granted personhood in the United States. In some senses then, this is a question of balancing competing personal rights. Drew ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Accessites.org Launches: Good-bye Accessible Site Stereotypes
(Some of you may be interested in this. If cross-post, please forgive -Mike) Accessites.org Launches: Good-bye Accessible Site Stereotypes One of the most challenging marriages is that of accessibility with style. Some erroneously think in general terms that the two are in complete opposition; meaning that an accessible site needs to be low-key and bland, and that a highly-styled site can't very well be that accessible. This false belief is echoed mostly by the mainstream development community. Those who really know web accessibility know that the marriage, while not necessarily simple, is certainly possible. And very worthwhile if done right as it combines the best of both worlds and has the highest general appeal. The Team Access members at the newly-launched Accessites.org are on a mission. They're trying to change this thinking and push web accessibility into the mainstream by showcasing accessible websites that have managed to shrug off the I'm accessible look. For those that manage this, they will be rewarded with an iconic pat-on-the-back and a permanent salute honoring them for their achievement. But it goes a little deeper than that. Unlike many awards organisations, Accessites.org has very strict criteria for submissions that is in itself a development benchmark worth reaching… then the grading begins. The Accessites grading checklist is transparent so everyone knows what is expected and what will be looked at. And due to the needs of mainstream developers and webmasters in general, many other facets of proper development will be considered as well: usability, search engine optimization, universality, standards compliance, the works. It all goes hand-in-hand in the real world. To the general public design carries great importance. Being as such, beauty in design is as nearly as important as basic accessibility. And it is with the general public that accessibility must begin. Do you have a site or know of one that shatters the accessible-is-boring stereotype? If so, Team Access wants to see it. Please take a moment, read the criteria, and submit the perfect site. http://accessites.org/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Web design education
Wow, I seem to have kicked off quite a ruckus. From what has been said I believe the situation isn't as bad as I thought, certainly no worse than in business/industry. There is still a long way to go, but we're getting there. So, points to note: 1) Syllabus documents may be out of date, or just not quite in line with what's actually being taught. Lesson: don't believe everything you read, and believe the best until proven otherwise. 2) Some educators are resistant to change, just as some finance directors/marketing departments/project managers are. Lesson: You can lead a horse to water... 3) Many academic institutions are teaching and advocating web standards to their students. Lesson: use the people doing it right as examples, maybe a how web standards has improved our web design course document would be useful. And some things that I've been mulling over for quite a while. Is there an international web design accreditation scheme, or some web master driving licence? Is that one of the aims of a web designers association/guild? And finally, what associations/guilds are you part of? http://www.hwg.org/, http://www.gawds.org/, http://www.iwanet.org/, and http://www.ukwda.org/ are the ones I'm aware of (there are others, I'm sure). thanks Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Re: Web design education
Drew Whitworth said: It does strike me though that the best response of the original poster might have been a polite e-mail to me about it (which to be fair some other posters did do) rather than ranting on a private list about how terrible it all is. All the latter does is exacerbate the appearance of WSG and similar fora as being cliquey. But that is by the by. The feedback has been noted. == Drew, I am sorry that the nature of my original post came across in such an arrogant and ranty manner. That was not my attention, and I unfairly picked on your documentation rather than widening my rant to all organisations unwilling to move with the times - and that's not just academia, but commerce, industry and business in general. However I'm glad the the post started such an interesting discussion, and I hope that in the future a) the good things that are happening will continue to happen and b) I will learn to keep my big gob shut :0) Regards Chris Taylor www.stillbreathing.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] JKRowling.com and the militia
so I visited the JKRowling site a while ago and was impressed by the design of the new site, easy and fun to use. Later, I read some comments on this site about Lightmaker and the worth of their accessibility methods (or suggested lack thereof) Recently I re-visited the site and had some difficulty getting on to it. I assume that in response to requests from the accessibility party, they have re-designed the site to be more accessible and that is a good thing. However. Before, visiting jkrowling.com immediately brought up the content of the site and the average user could 'get going' immediately. Now, it presents you with an introduction page full of buttons with different languages and accessibility levels. The most prominent button is that for the accessibility-enhanced page. Don't get me wrong, It's GOOD that they are promoting their accessibility mode, but still 90% of users visiting the site will not want this mode, why make it the default option. Is added accessibility for people with disabilities such a good thing if it reduces accessibility for the majority? Stephen. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Holy Gruel
Just wondering, Al... is the _javascript_ public domain ?Thx,KROn 2/14/06, Al Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:From: Paul Dwyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wierd... killed half my own post with a bracket:) The rest should read validates once it is removed.much appreciated :-) **The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
[WSG] mysterious right margin in IE (of course)
I can't quite identify where this is coming from. Works just fine in other browsers... IE 5/6 throw a right margin on the entire page...??? http://client.vaska.com/escaut/index8.php Merci... ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Holy Gruel
From: Kevin Ross Just wondering, Al... is the Javascript public domain ? The Equal Height column script is and you can read more about it here: http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/pvii_columns/index.htm Also feel free to use and abuse the little min-width expressions in the Conditional Comments. -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] mysterious right margin in IE (of course)
Woops...a colleague pointed out that I didn't set margin/padding to zero on the body. ;) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] new yahoo user interface library
Hi All As you may know, Yahoo has been hiring some very talented web developers over the past year, not to mention purchasing great companies like flickr and de.licio.us. Now, they have opened that wealth of talent to you for free. Yes, Im pimping my bosses. But seriously, this is really good stuff. Theyve released an open-source platform of standards-based code snippets and best-practices. Many of these are similar to other projects out there. However, Yahoo has taken the time to make sure they scale to millions of hits and pass privacy scrutiny (now stop typing the China related snickering), Im talking about making sure there are no memory leaks or possibly passing along less that secure protocols. Further, the library discusses the JSON data transfer protocol. So, enough of the sales pitch (I had nothing to do with this project.. but I plan on using it!) visit the http://www.yuiblog.com/ yahoo user interface blog and learn how to use these advanced programming techniques. Ted Drake Front-end Engineer Yahoo! Tech
RE: [WSG] JKRowling.com and the militia
Is added accessibility for people with disabilities such a good thing if it reduces accessibility for the majority? Well, I think the issue here is that there is no need to reduce accessibility for others. There would have been many other ways to approach this issue from what I see, which would not have made a significant impact on the pages. First, the splash page, which I see as being there to offer access to different languages, rather than just a choice between accessible/non-accessible. Second, why not load *only* the page that is accessibility enhanced? I've gone through both and there doesn't appear to be a huge difference. In fact, the only difference I could find was that one has a few accessibility options, the other one doesn't. It is showing poor Vision to think that only users with disabilities would benefit from those options. I'm sure there would have been a way to integrate that panel in the design in a way that would be unobtrusive (though as is, it's not really that bad). As for providing a choice to text only version, that could also have been a small text link at the top of the page, before the flash finishes loading. So, yeah, making flash pages accessible is difficult, but not impossible. In this case, you get confronted with many choices before your page loads, which seem to make it less usable for you, but the problem here is not one of accessibility, rather, one of how the designer chose to implement the accessibility of the site. My 2 cents :) Nic ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] new yahoo user interface library
Wow Ted, This is seriously cool. Haven't looked through it all yet, but I know I'm going to be using some of this code. The Graded Browser Support page http://developer.yahoo.net/yui/articles/gbs/gbs.html is particularly relevant for this forum. Thanks, Geoff Ted Drake wrote: Hi All As you may know, Yahoo has been hiring some very talented web developers over the past year, not to mention purchasing great companies like flickr and de.licio.us. Now, they have opened that wealth of talent to you for free. Yes, I'm pimping my bosses. But seriously, this is really good stuff. They've released an open-source platform of standards-based code snippets and best-practices. Many of these are similar to other projects out there. However, Yahoo has taken the time to make sure they scale to millions of hits and pass privacy scrutiny (now stop typing the China related snickering), I'm talking about making sure there are no memory leaks or possibly passing along less that secure protocols. Further, the library discusses the JSON data transfer protocol. So, enough of the sales pitch (I had nothing to do with this project.. but I plan on using it!) visit the http://www.yuiblog.com/ yahoo user interface blog and learn how to use these advanced programming techniques. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] new yahoo user interface library
I am in awe! I'm yet to score a commercial excuse to implement an AJAX solution, but I've been playing around with scriptaculousand other frameworks. This offering from Yahoo is just amazing and looks to provide yet more functionality. I'm sure this will be appreciated by everyone who is lucky enough to use it! Thanks, Miles. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted DrakeSent: Wednesday, 15 February 2006 4:28 AMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] new yahoo user interface library Hi All As you may know, Yahoo has been hiring some very talented web developers over the past year, not to mention purchasing great companies like flickr and de.licio.us. Now, they have opened that wealth of talent to you for free. Yes, Im pimping my bosses. But seriously, this is really good stuff. Theyve released an open-source platform of standards-based code snippets and best-practices. Many of these are similar to other projects out there. However, Yahoo has taken the time to make sure they scale to millions of hits and pass privacy scrutiny (now stop typing the China related snickering), Im talking about making sure there are no memory leaks or possibly passing along less that secure protocols. Further, the library discusses the JSON data transfer protocol. So, enough of the sales pitch (I had nothing to do with this project.. but I plan on using it!) visit the http://www.yuiblog.com/ yahoo user interface blog and learn how to use these advanced programming techniques. Ted Drake Front-end Engineer Yahoo! Tech IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email.
RE: [WSG] new yahoo user interface library
ACE. nuf said. ta heaps. benwg *while worshipping from his knees* From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miles TillingerSent: Wednesday, 15 February 2006 12:02To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: RE: [WSG] new yahoo user interface library I am in awe! I'm yet to score a commercial excuse to implement an AJAX solution, but I've been playing around with scriptaculousand other frameworks. This offering from Yahoo is just amazing and looks to provide yet more functionality. I'm sure this will be appreciated by everyone who is lucky enough to use it! Thanks, Miles. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted DrakeSent: Wednesday, 15 February 2006 4:28 AMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] new yahoo user interface library Hi All As you may know, Yahoo has been hiring some very talented web developers over the past year, not to mention purchasing great companies like flickr and de.licio.us. Now, they have opened that wealth of talent to you for free. Yes, Im pimping my bosses. But seriously, this is really good stuff. Theyve released an open-source platform of standards-based code snippets and best-practices. Many of these are similar to other projects out there. However, Yahoo has taken the time to make sure they scale to millions of hits and pass privacy scrutiny (now stop typing the China related snickering), Im talking about making sure there are no memory leaks or possibly passing along less that secure protocols. Further, the library discusses the JSON data transfer protocol. So, enough of the sales pitch (I had nothing to do with this project.. but I plan on using it!) visit the http://www.yuiblog.com/ yahoo user interface blog and learn how to use these advanced programming techniques. Ted Drake Front-end Engineer Yahoo! Tech IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email.
[WSG] just sharing the frustration
Hello fellow ponies, I just wanted to share my frustration with having to work late on valentine's day contextualizing copy from a Word doc into html with nested lists galore[1]. Took me about five hours and I might have missed a few. [1] http://test.slackbarshinger.com/pei2006/exhibitor/rules_regulations.html Plus, the web site is far from being completed as I am missing flash mastheads, flash nav, and just about all other images which I'm getting Thursday, when the web site is due Tuesday (no biggie right?). *sigh* I know everyone's been through this before and some of you are prolly thinking, that's nothing! why on my /birthday/, I had to But anyhow, to everyone: I hug u. working hard on valentine's day, Zulema ps: thankfully I'm walking outta here in half an hour come heck or high water! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] just sharing the frustration
Depending on which version of word your running (I'm on 2003) you can save a word document as web page, filtered (this then filters out most of the word specific HTML), I'm sure a few smart find and replaces could then clean up/add any code that is not needed or missing. Otherwise you could export the document as a regular web page and use dreamweavers clean up word HTML function to remove the extra crap. I'm not sure how effective it is. In either case, I'm sure you could have saved your valentines day? Samuel Zulema wrote: Hello fellow ponies, I just wanted to share my frustration with having to work late on valentine's day contextualizing copy from a Word doc into html with nested lists galore[1]. Took me about five hours and I might have missed a few. [1] http://test.slackbarshinger.com/pei2006/exhibitor/rules_regulations.html Plus, the web site is far from being completed as I am missing flash mastheads, flash nav, and just about all other images which I'm getting Thursday, when the web site is due Tuesday (no biggie right?). *sigh* I know everyone's been through this before and some of you are prolly thinking, that's nothing! why on my /birthday/, I had to But anyhow, to everyone: I hug u. working hard on valentine's day, Zulema ps: thankfully I'm walking outta here in half an hour come heck or high water! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] just sharing the frustration
Here's a helpful hint on doing this crap. Use htmlTidy, while I haven't used this, I've heard it's really good. Normally, what I do is create a new basic html page in dreamweaver. I go to the design view and paste the content into the screen. I then switch to code view and run a few search and replaces to clean it up. Dreamweaver does a pretty good job of turning word into decent coding. If people would only use styles in word, i.e. header tags, ul, etc. pasting into dreamweaver would be a five minute exercise. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zulema Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WSG List Subject: [WSG] just sharing the frustration Hello fellow ponies, I just wanted to share my frustration with having to work late on valentine's day contextualizing copy from a Word doc into html with nested lists galore[1]. Took me about five hours and I might have missed a few. [1] http://test.slackbarshinger.com/pei2006/exhibitor/rules_regulations.html Plus, the web site is far from being completed as I am missing flash mastheads, flash nav, and just about all other images which I'm getting Thursday, when the web site is due Tuesday (no biggie right?). *sigh* I know everyone's been through this before and some of you are prolly thinking, that's nothing! why on my /birthday/, I had to But anyhow, to everyone: I hug u. working hard on valentine's day, Zulema ps: thankfully I'm walking outta here in half an hour come heck or high water! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] just sharing the frustration
Ted Drake wrote: Here's a helpful hint on doing this crap. Use htmlTidy, while I haven't used this, I've heard it's really good. Normally, what I do is create a new basic html page in dreamweaver. I go to the design view and paste the content into the screen. I then switch to code view and run a few search and replaces to clean it up. Dreamweaver does a pretty good job of turning word into decent coding. If people would only use styles in word, i.e. header tags, ul, etc. pasting into dreamweaver would be a five minute exercise. Ted HTML-Kit has a tool to strip extra Word 2000 tags although, I usually paste as plain text into HTML-Kit and I have a plugin that converts line breaks into p p and also can turn text lists into ul's or ol's. It doesn't see nested levels in lists though. I actually insist that my clients send me copy in plain text documents where possible and even then I have to fix all the windows charset issues. Damned smart quotes and auto mdashes. Jay -- Jay Gilmore Developer / Consultant SmashingRed Web Marketing P] 902.529.0651 E] [EMAIL PROTECTED] U] http://www.smashingred.com B] http://www.smashingred.com/blog ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] just sharing the frustration
Samuel/Ted/Jay, Wow! I will remember all this for the next time, since I do a lot of Word-to-HTML converting. The crazy thing about this one particular Word doc was that it wasn't in formatted bulleted lists because it was copy extracted from a PDF we got from the client as it seems they didn't have the original copy deck anymore I think. Oh well, live and learn. I'm going to find HTMLTidy (which I had but lost on hard drive replace last year) and look up HTML-Kit. I do usually copy/paste right into the design view in dreamweaver for simple stuff. It really does the trick sometimes, if no one's tried it. The writers here at work only work in Word because of the Track Changes feature. Makes it easy for everyone to know what's been changed. Thanks again and hugs to all, Zulema ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] TARGET in 4.01 Strict
Bert Doorn wrote: The main idea is that one should not open new windows at all, leaving it up to the user to decide, which is why the target attribute was removed. But if you want to (or have to), either go back to transitional or use javascript. You may find some discussions about it in the mail list archives, but the simplest implementation would go along these lines: a href=page.html onclick=return !window.open(this.href)link text/a Agreed. A good example of the JS method is outlined here: http://www.sitepoint.com/article/standards-compliant-world ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] TARGET in 4.01 Strict
Bert Doorn wrote: The main idea is that one should not open new windows at all, leaving it up to the user to decide, which is why the target attribute was removed. G'day Bert, This always seems to be a subject of some debate. For commercial sites, I ALWAYS open a new blank window on a link. I do however advise users that this will happen and that they only have to close the new window to return to my site. From a marketing standpoint, why would you want to be showing people the door and then pushing them out into the street? As I say, only my personal opinion though. Regards, Ric ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] TARGET in 4.01 Strict
Hi Sedar, Try this one http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/popups.asp ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
