Re: [WSG] Installing More than one version of IE6

[Mark Harris]

Hargreaves, Michael wrote:

Here's another option to virtual PC which I use. I haven;t used Virtual 
PC in some time so I can;t really give a good comparison.

But if it makes a difference Virtual box has no connection with Microsoft.
http://www.virtualbox.org/


I second VirtualBox (which has just released v3). I use it on physical 
OSX, Linux and WinXP machines to provide multiple virtual machines 
running different versions of Windows (3.1 through to XP - I don't test 
for Vista) and various service pack and browser variations. I also run 
(sometimes) virtual Ubuntu servers to be test hosts - wholse networks 
inside one closed system ;-)


It's awesome.


~mark


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RE: [WSG] Installing More than one version of IE6

[Hargreaves, Michael]

"Typically, multiple installer doesn't reflect the actuality"
I definitely agree with this, you just cant be sure that what you're
viewing is accurate. Multiple installer products work ok but you can
never really be sure that you're using the complete engine for that
version. 
 
Here's another option to virtual PC which I use. I haven;t used Virtual
PC in some time so I can;t really give a good comparison. 
But if it makes a difference Virtual box has no connection with
Microsoft.
http://www.virtualbox.org/
 
 

Michael Hargreaves 
Origin
Web Designer
Corporate Communications 
Level 32, 360 Elizabeth Street 
Melbourne, VIC 3000

T   03 8665 7864 
F   03 9652 5522
Emichael.hargrea...@originenergy.com.au 
W   www.originenergy.com.au  

Together we can make a difference. TM

Please consider the environment before printing this email. 

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Anna Vester
Sent: Friday, 3 July 2009 1:51 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Installing More than one version of IE6



From: Darrin Potaka [mailto:dpot...@gmail.com] 
Hi - I hope this is on topic - I'm asking because I try to
author to good standards...
I need to install IE 6.0 alongside of IE 8. Running WIN XP SP 3.
The multiple installer at TredoSoft which used to work wont install -
are there any other options?
Darrin
++

 

I believe you are better of installing a Virtual PC machine and
testing it that way. Typically, multiple installer doesn't reflect the
actuality (1). Here is a link to download a virtual PC -
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx 

 

Hope this helps,

 

Anna

 

(1)  "Many developers caution that since the innards of IE have
been tinkered with a bit, there is a possibility that what you see in a
standalone IE does not completely match what a person using that version
of IE as his full install will really see. There are no confirmed
reports of inconsistencies, and the standalone old versions of IE do
show the confirmed bugs of old versions, but it is a possible risk, if a
small one."  
http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=8897D



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RE: [WSG] Installing More than one version of IE6

[Kepler Gelotte]

Hi - I hope this is on topic - I'm asking because I try to author to good
standards...
I need to install IE 6.0 alongside of IE 8. Running WIN XP SP 3. The
multiple installer at TredoSoft which used to work wont install - are there
any other options?
Darrin


I use IETester:

 

http://www.my-debugbar.com/wiki/IETester/HomePage

 

Best regards,

Kepler Gelotte

Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.

156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854

  www.neighborwebmaster.com

phone/fax: (732) 302-0904

 



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Re: [WSG] Installing More than one version of IE6

[Caleb Wong]

I've been using browser sandbox by xenocode and i find it quite pleasant.
Try it.

Theres standard IE6 - 8 plus Google Chrome, Firefox 2,3 and Safari.

http://www.xenocode.com/browsers

Cheers
Caleb


On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Darrin Potaka  wrote:

> Hi - I hope this is on topic - I'm asking because I try to author to good
> standards...
> I need to install IE 6.0 alongside of IE 8. Running WIN XP SP 3. The
> multiple installer at TredoSoft which used to work wont install - are there
> any other options?
> Darrin
>
> ***
> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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RE: [WSG] Installing More than one version of IE6

[Anna Vester]

From: Darrin Potaka [mailto:dpot...@gmail.com] 
Hi - I hope this is on topic - I'm asking because I try to author to good
standards...
I need to install IE 6.0 alongside of IE 8. Running WIN XP SP 3. The
multiple installer at TredoSoft which used to work wont install - are there
any other options?
Darrin
++

 

I believe you are better of installing a Virtual PC machine and testing it
that way. Typically, multiple installer doesn't reflect the actuality (1).
Here is a link to download a virtual PC -
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx 

 

Hope this helps,

 

Anna

 

(1)  "Many developers caution that since the innards of IE have been
tinkered with a bit, there is a possibility that what you see in a
standalone IE does not completely match what a person using that version of
IE as his full install will really see. There are no confirmed reports of
inconsistencies, and the standalone old versions of IE do show the confirmed
bugs of old versions, but it is a possible risk, if a small one."  
http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=8897D



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Re: [WSG] Installing More than one version of IE6

[Adam Smith]

Hi Darrin,
 
I use the Internet Explorer Collection (http://finalbuilds.edskes.net/iecollection.htm) from Edskes - it struggles with the really 
 

Kind regards,
 
Ads,
 

Adam Smith 
Operations Analyst 





Network Ten 1 Saunders Street , Pyrmont NSW 2009 , Australia




Telephone +61 (02) 9650 0931 . Facsimile +61 (02) 9650 1070  . Mobile +61 404 987 690 
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ten.com.au

masterchef.com.au
australianidol.com.au
rovedaily.com.au
dance.ten.com.au
ten.com.auOn 7/3/2009 at  1:22 pm, Darrin Potaka  wrote:
Hi - I hope this is on topic - I'm asking because I try to author to good standards...I need to install IE 6.0 alongside of IE 8. Running WIN XP SP 3. The multiple installer at TredoSoft which used to work wont install - are there any other options?Darrin***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org*** 
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Re: [WSG] Installing More than one version of IE6

[Ben Lau]

I came across this, but I'm a bit wary of any hidden downsides to it:
http://www.xenocode.com/Browsers/

On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Darrin Potaka  wrote:

> Hi - I hope this is on topic - I'm asking because I try to author to good
> standards...
> I need to install IE 6.0 alongside of IE 8. Running WIN XP SP 3. The
> multiple installer at TredoSoft which used to work wont install - are there
> any other options?
> Darrin
>
> ***
> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
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[WSG] Installing More than one version of IE6

[Darrin Potaka]

Hi - I hope this is on topic - I'm asking because I try to author to good
standards...
I need to install IE 6.0 alongside of IE 8. Running WIN XP SP 3. The
multiple installer at TredoSoft which used to work wont install - are there
any other options?
Darrin


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Re: [WSG] Print Preview Cut off after 1pg

[Patrick H. Lauke]

Kristine Cummins wrote:
I implemented a style sheet and works fine, however all pages are being 
cut off after one page. Any idears?


 


Site: http://wfdj.sbw.org/
CSS: http://wfdj.sbw.org/m/styles-print.css


From what I remember, the culprit is usually floating. Try removing the 
main big floats (for the navigation, content, etc) in your styles and 
see if that helps.


P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]

www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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RE: [WSG] CLARIFICATION: Print Preview Cut off after 1pg

[Kepler Gelotte]

> I implemented a style sheet and works fine, however all pages are being
cut off after one page. Any idears? It is doing it in Mozilla but IE is
fine.

 

Hi,

 

Have you tried removing the overflow:hidden from the rules? I would start
with the container classes.

Best regards,

Kepler Gelotte

Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.

156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854

  www.neighborwebmaster.com

phone/fax: (732) 302-0904

 


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TITLE:Web Designer
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REV:20070415T052107Z
END:VCARD

Re: [WSG] Accessible websites

[Felix Miata]

On 2009/07/02 15:20 (GMT-0400) Rick Faircloth composed:

> Felix Miata wrote:

>> Zoom, minimum text size and magnifiers are defense mechanisms. The basic
>>  problem is the pervasive offense - not respecting users' font size
>> choices by incorporating them at 100% for the bulk of content. Thus, an
>> even better way to address presbyopia is to design to make defenses
>> unnecessary in the first place.

>>> It's rather difficult to overstate the issue when over the course of time,
>>> presbyopia is pretty much 100 percent universal within the human 
>>> population.

> But how will you magnify the images and layout as designed for me to view?

Respectful design obviates the need.

> Addressing font issues is only the absolute basic attempt to make the web
> more accessible...It's important to be able to see "how" something is
> said and with what supporting content and context, rather than just "what"
> is said.

It certainly is important to be able to see. Thus, you're creating the
handicap that needs the defense mechanism when you make it harder to see by
sizing text smaller than the visitor's preference. With the exception of
background images, other objects besides the text when sized with reference
to the text size automatically adjusted as necessary. Context is thus
preserved - automatically, by the web browser.

> Focusing on font-size is quite an antiquated, limited view of
> accessiblity.

It's the foundational starting point from which everything else can and
_should_ be referenced. The visitor has presumptively set that point before
reaching any web site, and it can work well if the designer/coder accepts
whatever that may happen to be. The designer/coder does that by dispensing
with the px unit for sizing, replacing it with the visitor's preset point of
reference: the em unit.

> Magnification of entire monitor screens (not just decreasing resolution), 
> and browser magnification address all the issues, and in a very satisfying
> and simple manner, rather than asking/requiring web designers/developers
> to spend countless hours trying to code around the issues.

By dispensing with the impossible to achieve goal of pixel perfection, and
using em instead of px to size, the only thing to work around is how to size
background images. That is often very easily worked around by simply not
using background images.
-- 
No Jesus - No peace , Know Jesus -  Know Peace

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/


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[WSG] CLARIFICATION: Print Preview Cut off after 1pg

[Kristine Cummins]

I implemented a style sheet and works fine, however all pages are being cut
off after one page. Any idears? It is doing it in Mozilla but IE is fine.

 

A page with more than 1 page content: http://wfdj.sbw.org/artists/
CSS: http://wfdj.sbw.org/m/styles-print.css

 

Thank you!
Kristine

 



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[WSG] Print Preview Cut off after 1pg

[Kristine Cummins]

I implemented a style sheet and works fine, however all pages are being cut
off after one page. Any idears?

 

Site: http://wfdj.sbw.org/
CSS: http://wfdj.sbw.org/m/styles-print.css

 

Thank you!
Kristine

 



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Re: [WSG] working with line-height

[Paul Novitski]

At 7/1/2009 07:19 PM, Ben Lau wrote:
This is what I'm trying to achieve: 
http://hellobenlau.net/wsg/eg.gif
So there'll be a div with padding top and bottom of 20px, and with 
text inside.



This doesn't look to me like a line-height topic at all. If you 
increase the line-height, the lines of text within each paragraph 
will separate from one another, and that isn't what your gif 
illustrates. It looks more like a (default) line-height of 1.


Instead, this looks like a simple matter of applying padding & 
margins to the wrapper div its paragraphs.


Now, if we're to take your gif literally, it looks like you've got 
17px between the two paragraphs.  That implies:


div
{
padding-top: 20px;
padding-bottom: 3px;
}
div p
{
margin-bottom: 17px;
}


20px
some text
17px
some more text
17px
 3px


Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] Fieldset and Legend

[Tim Snadden]

On 3/07/2009, at 8:48 AM, CK wrote:


Hi,

After reading the specification, it appears that the elements  
 and  are used to denote groups of related form  
fields. However, I can across the following code
at surf the channel which appears to use it as a decorative element.  
Does the following usage, contradict the CSS specification?


fieldset and legend are form elements so yes, unless they are used to  
differentiate sections of a form they are being misused.



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Re: [WSG] working with line-height

[Matijs]

>
> I frequently have to work with pixel-perfect design


http://aspnetresources.com/blog/dear_art_director.aspx


> , and I'm always having trouble with line-height in particular. Please take
> a look at this example: http://www.hellobenlau.net/wsg/index.html

 
>
> I'm wondering if there was a way to top align the text to its line-height.
> So say, with text size 20px, could the top of the 'T' be aligned to the top
> of the pink box?
> How does the 'gap' above and below the text gets calculated?


 As far as I know, browsers always render a bit of extra space above
and below to allow for accents, descenders, ascenders and such. Please
bear in mind that users tend to like line-heights of 1.2 or a bit
bigger. If you can, try to introduce a vertical rhythm in your texts
and your users will thank you even more :)


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Re: [WSG] Fieldset and Legend

[David Dorward]

CK wrote:

Hi,

After reading the specification, it appears that the elements 
 and  are used to denote groups of related form 
fields. However, I can across the following code
at surf the channel which appears to use it as a decorative element. 
Does the following usage, contradict the CSS specification?
No. It contradicts the HTML specification (multiple times, since you 
aren't allowed nested anchor elements either).


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/



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[WSG] Fieldset and Legend

[CK]

Hi,

After reading the specification, it appears that the elements  
 and  are used to denote groups of related form  
fields. However, I can across the following code
at surf the channel which appears to use it as a decorative element.  
Does the following usage, contradict the CSS specification?



CK


Choose a channel


Animals class="rss-chan" href="/rss/61391-latest.xml" title="Animals  
channel"> 
Anime class="rss-chan" href="/rss/61477-latest.xml" title="Anime  
channel"> 
Art  
& Animation title="Art & Animation channel"> 
Auto-Moto class="rss-chan" href="/rss/61394-latest.xml" title="Auto-Moto  
channel"> 
College & Education  


Culture and Style  
Documentary  
 
Film &  
Movies  
Funny class="rss-chan" href="/rss/61398-latest.xml" title="Funny  
channel"> 
Gaming class="rss-chan" href="/rss/61399-latest.xml" title="Gaming  
channel"> 
Life &  
Style  
Music class="rss-chan" href="/rss/61401-latest.xml" title="Music  
channel"> 


News, Gossip & Politics  a>
People  
& Family title="People & Family channel"> 
Sports class="rss-chan" href="/rss/61404-latest.xml" title="Sports  
channel"> 
Tech &  
Gaming  
Television class="rss-chan" href="/rss/61406-latest.xml" title="Television  
channel"> 
Travel class="rss-chan" href="/rss/61407-latest.xml" title="Travel  
channel"> 


Webcam  
& Vlogs title="Webcam & Vlogs channel"> 







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Re: [WSG] Accessible websites

[Rick Faircloth]

> It is the sine qua non of accessibility

And that's exactly the point I'm trying to make...just addressing the
font-size issue
is the most basic form of accomodation possible.  We can do better.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Jul 2009, Rick Faircloth wrote:
>
> > But how will you magnify the images and layout as designed for me to
> view?
> > Addressing font issues is only the absolute basic attempt to make the web
> > more accessible...It's important to be able to see "how" something is
> said
> > and with
> > what supporting content and context, rather than just "what" is said.
> >
> > Focusing on font-size is quite an antiquated, limited view of
> accessiblity.
>
> It is the sine qua non of accessibility. It's not the only issue,
> but it is the most basic.
>
> > Magnification of entire monitor screens (not just decreasing resolution),
> > and
> > browser magnification address all the issues, and in a very satisfying
> and
> > simple manner,
> > rather than asking/requiring web designers/developers to spend countless
> > hours
> > trying to code around the issues.
>
> There is no issue to code around. The only issue is
> overspecifying sizes which leads to inaccessible pages. Less is
> more.
>
> --
>   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster 
>   ===
>   Author:
>   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
>
>
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-- 
--
"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad
reputation."  Henry Kissinger


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Re: [WSG] Accessible websites

[Chris F.A. Johnson]

On Thu, 2 Jul 2009, Rick Faircloth wrote:

> But how will you magnify the images and layout as designed for me to view?
> Addressing font issues is only the absolute basic attempt to make the web
> more accessible...It's important to be able to see "how" something is said
> and with
> what supporting content and context, rather than just "what" is said.
> 
> Focusing on font-size is quite an antiquated, limited view of accessiblity.

 It is the sine qua non of accessibility. It's not the only issue,
 but it is the most basic.

> Magnification of entire monitor screens (not just decreasing resolution),
> and
> browser magnification address all the issues, and in a very satisfying and
> simple manner,
> rather than asking/requiring web designers/developers to spend countless
> hours
> trying to code around the issues.

 There is no issue to code around. The only issue is
 overspecifying sizes which leads to inaccessible pages. Less is
 more.

-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster 
   ===
   Author:
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)


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Re: [WSG] Accessible websites

[Rick Faircloth]

But how will you magnify the images and layout as designed for me to view?
Addressing font issues is only the absolute basic attempt to make the web
more accessible...It's important to be able to see "how" something is said
and with
what supporting content and context, rather than just "what" is said.

Focusing on font-size is quite an antiquated, limited view of accessiblity.

Magnification of entire monitor screens (not just decreasing resolution),
and
browser magnification address all the issues, and in a very satisfying and
simple manner,
rather than asking/requiring web designers/developers to spend countless
hours
trying to code around the issues.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Felix Miata  wrote:

> On 2009/07/02 08:46 (GMT-0700) Dennis Lapcewich composed:
>
> > The technical term is presbyopia, a physical inability of the lens of the
> > eye to focus properly.  Specifically, the lens loses its elasticity and
> > ability to properly focus on near objects.  It is a natural  course of
> > aging.  Onset is often between the ages of 40-50, however, it has been
> > seen at earlier ages.  In web terms, one's ability to obtain information
> > from computer monitors (web pages) will decrease as one ages, without
> > correction.  The normal method of correction is bifocal lenses, even
> > trifocal lenses in some cases.  As pointed out in another email in this
> > thread, taking advantage of a browser's magnifications abilities through
> > accessibility coding techniques is an excellent example to address this.
>
> Zoom, minimum text size and magnifiers are defense mechanisms. The basic
> problem is the pervasive offense - not respecting users' font size choices
> by
> incorporating them at 100% for the bulk of content. Thus, an even better
> way
> to address presbyopia is to design to make defenses unnecessary in the
> first
> place.
>
> > It's rather difficult to overstate the issue when over the course of
> time,
> > presbyopia is pretty much 100 percent universal within the human
> > population.
> --
> No Jesus - No peace , Know Jesus -  Know Peace
>
>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
>
> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
>
>
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Re: [WSG] Accessible websites

[Felix Miata]

On 2009/07/02 08:46 (GMT-0700) Dennis Lapcewich composed:

> The technical term is presbyopia, a physical inability of the lens of the 
> eye to focus properly.  Specifically, the lens loses its elasticity and 
> ability to properly focus on near objects.  It is a natural  course of 
> aging.  Onset is often between the ages of 40-50, however, it has been 
> seen at earlier ages.  In web terms, one's ability to obtain information 
> from computer monitors (web pages) will decrease as one ages, without 
> correction.  The normal method of correction is bifocal lenses, even 
> trifocal lenses in some cases.  As pointed out in another email in this 
> thread, taking advantage of a browser's magnifications abilities through 
> accessibility coding techniques is an excellent example to address this.

Zoom, minimum text size and magnifiers are defense mechanisms. The basic
problem is the pervasive offense - not respecting users' font size choices by
incorporating them at 100% for the bulk of content. Thus, an even better way
to address presbyopia is to design to make defenses unnecessary in the first
place.

> It's rather difficult to overstate the issue when over the course of time, 
> presbyopia is pretty much 100 percent universal within the human 
> population.
-- 
No Jesus - No peace , Know Jesus -  Know Peace

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/


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RE: [WSG] Accessible websites (was: accessible free web hosting account)

[Dennis Lapcewich]

>> While I agree with your general sentiment, I have to say I find the
>> assertion that all people aged 35-40 or more are "for all intents and
>> purposes [...] web disabled and [...] in immediate need of web
>> accessibility" questionable, to say the least.
>> 
>> I'd be careful of overstating the case like this, as it can undermine
>> the whole argument.

The technical term is presbyopia, a physical inability of the lens of the 
eye to focus properly.  Specifically, the lens loses its elasticity and 
ability to properly focus on near objects.  It is a natural  course of 
aging.  Onset is often between the ages of 40-50, however, it has been 
seen at earlier ages.  In web terms, one's ability to obtain information 
from computer monitors (web pages) will decrease as one ages, without 
correction.  The normal method of correction is bifocal lenses, even 
trifocal lenses in some cases.  As pointed out in another email in this 
thread, taking advantage of a browser's magnifications abilities through 
accessibility coding techniques is an excellent example to address this.

It's rather difficult to overstate the issue when over the course of time, 
presbyopia is pretty much 100 percent universal within the human 
population.


Dennis Lapcewich
US Forest Service Webmaster
DRM Civil Rights POC
Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA
360.891.5024 - Voice | 360.891.5045 - Fax
dlapcew...@fs.fed.us

"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing 
it." -- George Bernard Shaw

??where conflicting interests must be reconciled, the question will always 
be decided from the standpoint of the greatest good of the greatest number 
in the long run.? --Gifford Pinchot, Chief Forester, 1905 


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