Re: [WSG] Standards & Macromedia Contribute
A few other things to be aware of with Contribute 3: You cannot edit pages that use server side includes. To be able to see the page in it's entirety, you have to instead use Dreamweaver Templates of Library Items. Doing this then ties you to Macromedia's proprietary standards , rather than standards compliant XHTML. On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:15:19 -, Sam Hutchinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Anyone out there got any experience of adding a fully devised compliant > template to Contribute to let the content owners manage their own pages ? > Is it simply a case of defining the editable regions or should you build the > site and then define the content that can be changed? > > Was planning on implementing along with: > http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/company.php > > ...would be interested to hear of any results good and bad - off list of you > feel your reply isn't wide enough for everyone to be interested... > > Cheers > > SH > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] help with CSS
Kym One thing I always do is use a Strict Doctype. I find then that the rendering between browsers is much more consistent that a Transistional Doctype. I also try not to use CSS which will invoke the IE Box Model problem. This involves using 'margin' a lot more than 'padding' where applicable. Hope this helps. Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] help with CSS Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:09:46 +1030 >Hi, > >I am a new member to WSG and am hoping someone can help me with a >problem I'm having. I'm only new to web design and CSS, and am >learning as I go along. > >I'm trying to create a site but it is displaying differently in >Firefox and IE and I'm not sure why. > >It is a two column template, with the navigation in the left column. >There is an image which is supposed to span the entire width of the >right column. > >In Firefox, the left nav displays correctly, but in IE, the nav is >moved further to the right than it is supposed to be, so I've had to >make the image narrower than it should be to fit into the right >column. This means that in Firefox, the image doesn't quite reach all >the way to the right edge. > >The URL is http://learnline.cdu.edu.au/pathways if you need to have a >look. > >I've gone through everything I can think of and still can't fix it. > >Any suggestions (in layman's terms) would be appreciated. > >Thank you, >Kym Parry Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Applications that don't open in a new window
There is no need to open a new window in this case, in fact opening a new window for the reason so that the user can't use the back button is just lazy programming. The form pages should hold the users information, and be able to maintain state if the user goes backward and submits again. This should be session based only, of course. This is pretty standard practice. Take a look at Amazon, eBay, PayPal an numerous other sites. Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Applications that don't open in a new window Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:09:28 +1100 >On our website, we ask people to fill in a form to register their >details for an event. > > > >Our backend coder (php) insists that a new window should open for >this >form, so that the user cannot use the browser's navigation buttons, >because if they do some of the information does not make it back to >the >database (or something like that!). > > > >I told him that I don't want a new window opening as it is not >user-friendly and may be difficult for people with physical >disabilities >to use. > > > >We have now reached an impasse. I told him I would supply examples of >similar applications online that comply with web standards i.e. do >not >open in a new window. Does anybody know of any that I can pass on? > > > >Ta, > >Priscilla Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Learning to design Accessibility
Try the W3C as a good starting point: http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/ http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/ http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/full-checklist.html http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-TECHS/ Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Subject: [WSG] Learning to design Accessibility >>> Is there a resource that's available that is able to fill the gaps in my knowledge regarding accessibility? >>> Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE and background colour
I have heard of this happening as well on some systems after installing Service Pack 2. Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] IE and background colour Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:10:13 +1100 >Does anyone know why, all of a sudden, I can't over-ride the >background >colour of a site in IE? The background colour is specified via style >sheets, so there should be no problem once CSS is turned off, but it >still >forces the background to white. Example: www.villamaria.com.au ><http://www.villamaria.com.au/> > > > >I have been tested CSS using the same method for years - perhaps they >have >changed something in the latest upgrade? > > > >Cheers, > >Gian > > > >Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Tonight's Melbourne meeting and presentation notes
Thanks to all who came to the Melbourne Web Standards meeting tonight. We had around 42 people attend, who heard: Andrew Fernandez give a great introduction and welcome. Russ Weakley give a "quick and dirty" introduction to accessibility. Steve Faulkner talk about techniques for making forms more accessible. Brett Jackson talk about Fairfax Digital, and how they made the transition to CSS/XHTML with several of their highly trafficked newspaper sites. Myself give a brief talk about some of the resources available for learning more about accessibility and web standards. A big thankyou especially goes to Russ, Steve and Brett, who took time out of their busy work and life schedules to come down tonight and present. The presentation notes can be found on the WSG site at: http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/resource317.cfm Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Melbourne Web Standards Presentations Tonight
Accessibility and Standards for Web Designers/Developers Just a quick reminder that the Melbourne Web Standards Group is presenting Steve Faulkner (NILS) and Brett Jackson (Fairfax Digital) as our guest speakers tonight. The event will be held at the Bell's Hotel & Brewery, Cnr of Moray and Coventry Sts, South Melbourne, starting at 6:30pm tonight (October 25th). Cost is $5.00. For more information, including RSVP information, please visit: http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event22.cfm Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
inline elements inside - Was: [WSG] Semantics of Breadcrumb
I've noticed in the code on Russ 'listopathic' page, that and other tags are inside tags eg: What is the obsession with lists? I've seen this other places as well, but have always assumed that block level elements inside tags was invalid? Was I wrong here? Anyone have the W3C reference for this sort of thing handy? Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Semantics of Breadcrumb "you are here" links Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:14:51 +1000 >> er, maybe it's my 'listless' disposition but why would you put a >> breadcrumb in a list? The usual > seperators seem ideal, and if >you >> disable styles it is still a breadcrumb; what is the obsession with >> putting everything in a list? > >OK, I admit it... I am obsessed with lists and I hereby intend to use >lists >for EVERYTHING from now on - even if pointless and >counter-productive: >http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/list-obsessed/ > >(view source) > >Russ > >** >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help >** > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Melbourne WSG Meeting - Times & URL
Following on from the previous email regarding the Melbourne WSG meeting titled 'Accessibility and standards for web designers/developers': Start time: 6:30pm Keep posted to this page for updates: http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event22.cfm Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Melbourne WSG Meeting - Accessibility and standards for web designers/developers
Melbourne WSG Meeting: Accessibility and standards for web designers/developers The Melbourne Web Standards Group is proud to present Steve Faulkner (NILS) and Brett Jackson (Fairfax Digital) as guest speakers at our next meeting. Steve's presentation is titled "Techniques for making forms more accessible", whilst Brett will be presenting "Managing the transition to CSS/XHTML" Date: Monday 25 October, 2004 Location: Bells Hotel & Brewery Cnr Moray & Coventry Sts South Melbourne Ph: 9690 4511 Cost: $5.00 RSVP: Please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you would like to attend, so as we can get an indication of numbers. Agenda: 1. Andrew Fernandez - Welcome and introdction 2. Russ Weakley- Introduction to accessibility 3. Steve Faulkner- Techniques for making forms more accessible 4. Questions for Steve Short break 5. Brett Jackson - Managing the transition to CSS/XHTML 6. Questions for Brett 8. David McDonald - Where do you go from here? Questions? For any questions or enquiries, please contact David McDonald 0403 332 140, or Andrew Fernandez (Dez) 0409 355 296. -- Background: Steve Faulkner Senior Web Accessibility Consultant National Information & Library Service (NILS) Steve has many years experience as a web developer and accessibility consultant. As well as his ongoing consulting work, he presents & runs workshops at conferences, and guest lectures at universities on the practical implementation of web accessibility. He is also leading the development of Web Accessibility testing software in collaboration with organisations and individuals from around the world. Brett Jackson Director of Creative Services Fairfax Digital As Director of Creative Services for Fairfax Digital, Brett works at the intersection of the commercial and creative, and is responsible for the Information Architecture and Design of the some of the busiest sites in Australia such as the Sydney Morning Herald. Brett has worked in Australia, Hong Kong and Singapore leading regional internet projects and strategies for companies such as HSBC, Philips, Westpac, Visa International and Apple. Russ Weakley Lead Designer Australian Museum Online Russ Weakley has worked in the design field for over 18 years, the last 8 as a web designer. Russ is currently the web designer for Australian Museum Online. Russ co-chairs the Web Standards Group, whose role is to assist in the education of web developers in new technologies and accessibility issues as well as doing presentations to various industry groups. Russ has also produced a series of widely acclaimed CSS-based tutorials including Listamatic, Listamatic2, Listutorial, Floatutorial and Selectutorial. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] CSS problem solving
These links have now been added to the Resources section of the Web Standards Group website, under 'CSS Browser Bugs and Problems' at: http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat23 There are many more CSS resources here as well: CSS General Resources: http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat11 CSS Layout Resources: http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat10 CSS Tutorials: http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat24 Also, feel free to add your own links to the Resources pages, as that's what they're there for. Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] CSS problem solving Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:20:01 +1000 >Hi all, >I have been noticing more CSS questions coming onto the list. This is >all >cool. One of our main aims is to help developers move towards web >standards/best practice. > >However, if you are just getting into CSS it might be worth your time >reading a few CSS classic articles: > >Position is everything: >1. http://positioniseverything.net/articles/mys-bug.html >2. http://positioniseverything.net/articles/common.html >(Worth reading ALL their articles!) > >Mezzoblue >1. http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/03/10/css_problems/ >2. http://www.mezzoblue.com/css/cribsheet/ > >Andy Budd: >1. >http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2003/12/css_crib_sheet_1_gaps_betwee >n_verti >cal_nav_elements_in_ie5/index.php >2. >http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2003/12/css_crib_sheet_2_clearing_fl >oats/in >dex.php >3. >http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2004/02/css_crib_sheet_3_centering_a >_div/in >dex.php > >I'm sure there are many others... >Thanks >Russ > >** >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help >** > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Melbourne meet-up tonight
I'd like to say thankyou to everyone who turned up to the Melbourne WSG drinks tonight at 3 Degrees. We had our biggest turn out yet of around 30 or so people (maybe more), which was great to see. The Melbourne group gained quite a few new members tonight, and things are starting to take shape for us, which is quite exciting. An especially huge thanks also goes to Doug Bowman and Dave Shea for taking time out of their work/holiday to attend the meetup. Having these two guys there tonight was fantastic, and was a great opportunity for those who missed out on Web Essentials in Sydney to meet and chat with them. Big thankyou to Peter Firminger as well, for helping tonight come together. The next Melbourne WSG meeting will be a presentation - details and venue to be disclosed in the next few weeks. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] WSG Melbourne: Meet Doug Bowman and Dave Shea - Venue Confirmed
The venue has now been confirmed for the WSG Melbourne meetup, with special guests Doug Bowman and Dave Shea. The venue is 3 Degrees, located in the new QV complex on the corner of Lonsdale & Russell Sts, in the city. The meetup will be on the ground floor bar, which is accessible from the QV courtyard. A map of how to get there can be found at http://www.3degrees.com.au/2.html. Start time will be 6:30pm and there will be some finger food provided. As with all meetings here in Melbourne, this is open to WSG members and non-members alike. If anyone is having trouble finding the venue, feel free to call Andrew 0409 355 296 or David 0403 332 140. For those in Melbourne that couldn't get to WE04, this is a great opportunity to get face to face contact with two extraordinary people. WSG Co-Chair Peter Firminger will also be flying down. Keep posted to this page for more information: http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event19.cfm Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] CSS rules & quirks database
The CSS-discuss Wiki is a very good wealth of CSS information that is always being updated: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=FrontPage Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] CSS rules & quirks database Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:07:29 -0700 >Friends, > >Drowning as I am in the unending flood of details about CSS -- what >works >and what doesn't on which browsers, and how to make a particular >effect >work cross-browser -- I've started conceiving a database to augment >my >maxed-out cerebrum. > >Such a database could be queried for suggestions of how to accomplish >a >given presentational task, to advise about the cross-browser issues >of >particular elements, and to provide links to source material and >demos on >the net. Ultimately it might be made into a validator to help folks >pinpoint problems in their markup. It would contain the kinds of >details >that are imparted daily on this glorious list, although I cannot >imagine it >ever rendering CSS listserves obsolete because of the endless >fountain of >human invention they convey. > >Before I get too far into this project, I'm wondering: > >- Is anyone else working on this kind of thing? >- Would you like to join a working group to discuss its feasibility >and >implementation? > >Thanks, >Paul > > >** >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > >Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ > Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge >To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help >** > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] [OT] Employment opportunity in Melbourne, Australia - Reply off list
Skills Media requires an xhtml coder to help out with an urgent website xhtml template construction project ASAP - Tuesday 24th or Wednesday 25th august. In-house preferred, but can work externally if required. Skills required: XHTML, JavaScript, basic Photoshop Please contact Kristin - [EMAIL PROTECTED] directly for further information and do not reply to this message on list. Permission for this OT message granted by Peter Firminger Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] WSG Melbourne Meeting tonight
Hi all, The Melbourne WSG meeting tonight was held tonight and we had two very interesting speakers and topics. Firstly, Woric gave us a presentation on the use of XSL and XML, and how it can be used to create easy to maintain websites and CMS's for websites. Woric showed us that using XML and XSL creates true seperation between the data layer and the presentation layers. More info about XSL and XML can be found at Worics's website at http://www.woric.net/xml_XSL.xf Next, Nigel McFarlane, who is the world's leading professional commentator on the subject of Mozilla technology, talked about XUL. XUL is The XML User Interface Language, and is a markup language for creating rich dynamic user interfaces. It is also native to the Mozilla browser. Nigel also dived under the hood in Mozilla and showed us what the different files and folders in Mozilla do. He explained how easy it is to customise Mozilla and encouraged us to get in there and tweak, which is what I'll be doing for the rest of the night! Nigel's website can be found at http://nigelmcfarlane.com/ Thanks guys for an informative night of topics. I will be posting notes from these talks on the WSG site in the near future. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Table-Free Design
John, There is a great list of categorised CSS 3 Column layouts available at the CSS Discuss Wiki: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=ThreeColumnLayouts Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Table-Free Design Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:39:49 +1000 >If I want to find solid building blocks for a table-free layout, >where should I start? > >I mean, I know there are hundreds of websites, but the >recommendations of this group ought to be particularly useful. > >The thing is, I want a lot! In terms of the page, I'm simply looking >for > > * banner > * three-column flexible layout for the main content > * footer > >but I'm hoping that the page doesn't exhibit any strange behaviours >when the page gets too small/content gets too bit, like DIVs >overlapping each other or disappearing to the bottom of the page, and > >I'm even hoping that the layout can be content-first, nav-second in >the source. > >I was also hoping that the CSS can be relatively straightforward and >not consist of 147 nested @import statements full of >high-pass/low-pass filters and box model hack code etc. > >Am I asking too much? I won't be trying to support Netscape 4, if >that helps... > >jh > >** >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > >Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ > Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge >To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help >** > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
COLGROUP & COL. Was: [WSG] applying style to the 3rd column of a table?
You certainly can style table columns as you would any other element: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.4 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >I thought I read somewhere that you can style tables by columns, just >as you >can by rows and cells. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] About the standard Price for our website design (THREAD CLOSED)
This discussion may be OK or not in certain countries, but it doesn't have much to with web standards. Let's close the thread now please. Guys, feel free to discuss it with each other offlist or in another appropriate forum. >Patrick H. Lauke wrote: > >> Call me overly cautious, but I don't think this is a topic for >> discussion... >> http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Acollusion > >You're overly cautious. There's a huge difference between discussing >what goes into setting a price or expressing opinion on what is a >valid >price, and collusion. Besides, even if a few designers/developers try >to >fix prices, it won't work; there's too much competition. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Can you use noscript in header?
Yes, you can. We have used the tag in the head on http://www.bhpbilliton.com and it does validate. However i believe it needs to be wrapped in an object tag in order to validate. Also, the object tag was actually being rendered as a block element in Safari. I had to actually set the object tag as 'height:0' for it to render correctly in Safari. Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Can you use "noscript" in the head section? Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 18:13:25 -0700 >Are you allowed to use the tag in the section of an > >XHTML document? > >* >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ >See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm >for some hints on posting to the list & getting help >***** > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] The Melbourne meeting tonight
A big thanks to everyone who turned up to the Melbourne WSG meeting tonight. We had 24 people turn up, which is a record for the Melbourne meetings. Our diverse range of standards afficiondos included two people who drove down from Ballarat (thanks guys - I really should learn to remember everyone's names - you know who you are) and even a member of WASP (thanks Steph). Cameron Adams gave us a fascinating talk about his design process and techniques, and gave us a sneak preview of the new "The Man in Blue" site, which really pushes the boundaries of standards based XHTML/CSS design. Great stuff Cam! We met lots of talented, friendly, like minded people, ate, drank, and talked about some of us getting up to Web Essentials in Sydney if we can. All in all, it was a good night and we look forward to doing it again. There was some talk about making the event monthly rather than "two-monthly", so we will be in touch with the Melbourne members to feel that out. Thanks again to everyone who turned up. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] position:absolute problem
Peter,
After a quick look at the css of your problem, I came up with the
following that works how you want it to in both IE and Mozilla.
I applied a float to the .main container, and also width:auto. You
don't actually need the width:auto there, but it is good practice to
have a width for every float.
I also applied relative positioning to the .main p declaration, as
then it will obey the z-index:
.main{
z-index: 0;
position: relative;
background-color: #c00;
float: left;
width: auto;
}
.main p{
position: relative;
z-index: 3;
}
.bluebox{
z-index: 2;
position: absolute;
bottom: 0;
left: 0;
background-color: #369;
width: 100px;
height: 100px;
}
Original Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>hiya, this is hopefully a simple little problem - but my brain is
>refusing
>to work today :)
>
>on this test page...
>http://c41.com.au/test/position_test.html
><http://c41.com.au/test/position_test.html> (yep, validated)
>...is the example of the problem (i've stripped out all the extra
>html/css
>to make it easier for you to peruse)
>
>I want the blue box to appear at the bottom left of the red box (so
>its
>inside the red box) - and i want the text to overlap it.
>
Regards,
David McDonald
Web Designer
http://www.davidmcdonald.org
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
*
RE: [WSG]
Andy's article has been discussed previously on the list and he's also a member of this list. Do a search through the Discussion List Archive for the thread "tables are bad because" Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] "An Objective Look at Table Based vs. CSS Based Design" Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 14:13:55 +1000 >"An Objective Look at Table Based vs. CSS Based Design" >http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2004/05/an_objective_look_at_table_b >ased_vs_css_based_design/index.php > >IMHO while the article has some good points, trying to claim that it >is >an "objective" article is going to far. I'd say it is subjective in >some >a parts especially "Some Things Are Just Easier with Tables" which >sounds like he's saying its all too hard I can't be bothered ... > >-- >Neerav Bhatt >http://www.bhatt.id.au >Web Development & IT consultancy >* >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ >See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm >for some hints on posting to the list & getting help >* > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Width difference in IE - OK in Firefox
Title: Message Try using display:inline on the floated element in question. It's most probably one of the IE bugs listed here: http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer.html Regards,David McDonaldWeb Designerhttp://www.davidmcdonald.orgSouthbank, MelbourneAustralia -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael KearSent: Monday, 24 May 2004 11:17 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] Width difference in IE - OK in Firefox I’m stumped at what I’ve done wrong here. I’ve copied (or at least I THOUGHT I copied!) a structure from another site that worked, but it’s playing out wrong for IE6. can anyone tell me what I’m doing wrong here please? The site’s at http://paraklesis.com.au and the style sheet is at http://paraklesis.com.au/styles/paraklesis.css It looks fine in Firefox, and Netscape 7.1 but not in IE6. What’s happening in IE is that the outer container is too wide on the right (it’s supposed to be 597pixels wide, which is the width of the heading graphic). It’s 597 in the other browsers, but in IE it’s 614px wide. And despite being wider, it still squeezes the right sidebar out and forces it to float below the left content box. I’ve been staring at this wretched thing for hours now and I guess I’m too close to it now to see what’s wrong. Can anyone see what I’ve done? (oh yes, I know the content is far too long and the client has lots of work to do in that area and I have some work to do on the floats for the menu buttons. But it’s the bigger boxes I’m working on now.). Cheers Mike Kear AFP Webworks Windsor, NSW, Australia http://afpwebworks.com
RE: [WSG] Melbourne Meeting - May
Cameron, Yes, the meeting is tonight! Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Melbourne Meeting - May Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:14:06 -0700 (PDT) >Is the Melbourne meeting really May 3? (like it says >on the web site) If so, it snuck up quick! > >-- >Cameron Adams > >W: www.themaninblue.com > > > > >__ >Do you Yahoo!? >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover >* >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ >See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm >for some hints on posting to the list & getting help >* > >* >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ >See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm >for some hints on posting to the list & getting help >* > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] marquee text
Jackie, >From the W3C website: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wai-gl-techniques-19980918#style-text The 'Text Style' content reads in part: Note. Do not use the BLINK and MARQUEE elements. These elements are not part of any W3C specification for HTML (i.e., they are non-standard elements). >My client has asked me for a section of scrolling text dammit! > > >Have searched online...cant find anything other than the fact that >the marquee tag has been depreciated.' > >Is there anyway that this sort of thing can be done without effecting >on the validation and accessibility of a site? > >Anyone know where i can find some info on this? :( > >Jackie Reid > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Ten Questions for Eric Meyer - a WSG interview
Great interview Russ, it's good to hear someone like Eric's opinions on what is so topical at the moment in our community. And, of course, the whole thing is marked up with definition lists - we expected nothing less!! Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] theage.com.au: new design
Peter, Well done on the Age website! There's a lot of buzz from people here in Melbourne about it, and it has been received very well. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] Updated CSS resource categories on WSG site
The Resources section of the WSG site has recently been updated, and the CSS Categories available now are: CSS Known Browser Bugs - http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat23 CSS Layout Examples - http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat10 CSS Tabs - http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat26 CSS Tutorials - http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat24 CSS General Resources - http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat11 It is worth checking through the Resources before making a post, as there is a lot of good information there which may be able to answer your questions. Feel free to add to any of the categories and resources as well - that's what they are there for! Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] WSG member gets a good wrap
Good one Jeff! Great work and a very interesting interview. Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] WSG member gets a good wrap Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:32:40 +1000 >Always exciting to see a WSG member getting a good wrap! > >The Weekly Standard has given this weeks award to Jeff Lowder from >Accessibility 1st for his site - Young Achievement Australia. There >is a >review of the site and also an interview with Jeff: > >http://www.weeklystandards.com/archives/2004/03/29/index.php > >Well done, Jeff. >Russ Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] What tha!? (CSS not rendering in Mozilla)
Peter, I have had a similar problem with the BHP Billiton site recently. It looks like the server does not have the mime type for CSS set correctly. In Mozilla, if you select Tools, Web Development, then Javascript Console, you should see an error message reading: Error: The stylesheet http://www.cinema4duser.com/css/main.css was not loaded because its MIME type, "text/html", is not "text/css". This is a problem on the server end, where they either don't have the experience or the knowledge to set up mime types properly. I woulod hazard a guess and say that the CSS mime type is set to "text/x-pointplus. More info at: http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsource/2002/incorrect-mime-types/ Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] What tha!? Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:51:00 +1000 >I just checked my site www.cinema4duser.com in Mozilla and it wasn't >applying CSS. what the A#%^$* have I done?? > >Thanks >Peter > > >Universal Head >Design That Works. > >7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore >NSW 2048 Australia >T (+612) 9517 1466 >F (+612) 9565 4747 >E [EMAIL PROTECTED] >W www.universalhead.com > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] What's wrong with this page??
The Resources section on the Web Standards Group website has a section with links to 'CSS' known browser bugs: http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat23 Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] What's wrong with this page?? Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:12:45 +1000 >Michael - I am getting the content but no style, except for one photo >towards the bottom of the page. I tried in the latest of Mozilla and >IE (PC_XP). > >Cheers >Maureen Beattie > > > Yes, it's pulled down now Sarah, but thanks for looking. I had a >totally different problem with coldfusion at the time I posted that >message, so I made a static version of the page. I've since fixed >both the ColdFusion problem and the display issue I was talking >about, so I have no need for the static page to litter the site. >I've done some housekeeping and got rid of it. > > > > If you want to see the site, the client will probably give me the >ok to launch it tomorrow. But the (unlaunched) home page is at >http://mezzanines.com.au/index2.cfm > > > > The page in question was the about us page, but the problem was >also appearing on the home page and several others. Now all gone by >using position:relative in the offending divs, thanks to two people >on this list who pointed out the problem and also to articles with >the solution. > > > > Thanks again for being interested enough in my problem to go >looking. > > > > Cheers > > Mike Kear > > Windsor, NSW, Australia > > AFP Webworks > > http://afpwebworks.com > > > > > > >- >- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sarah Sammis > Sent: Monday, 29 March 2004 2:13 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [WSG] What's wrong with this page?? > > > > I'm guessing you've taken the page down to work on it because I'm >getting a 404. > > Sarah > On Sunday, Mar 28, 2004, at 01:08 US/Pacific, Michael Kear wrote: > > http://mezzanines.com.au/aboutus.htm Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers
Title: Message From my perspective, the whole point of coding to standards means that it doesn't matter what browser the user is viewing your site in - they should be able to read your content regardless. Regards,David McDonaldWeb Designerhttp://www.davidmcdonald.orgSouthbank, MelbourneAustraliaMobile: 0403 332 140ICQ: 11814164 -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jaime WongSent: Friday, 26 March 2004 12:25 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers "There's a big difference between expecting someone to update their antiquated bowser, and shutting out the whole Mac computer platform.What you're telling us Mac people is that we shouldn't have bought that Mac because a PC dominant $Microsoft company can't make a browser that works to standards." Leo I never say anything about not buying a Mac. I feel that you have misread/misinterpreted my meanings. What I am saying is that there are many sites that hide stylesheets from NS4x because the style breaks in the browser. I was using NS4 as an example and the main topic here is about - To hide OR not to hide stylesheets - as Sarah stated that she would prefer to see a broken style rather than no style at all (i.e. just contents). Never once did I mention anything about shutting down the whole Mac computer platform. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/25/04 05:48:09 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers > There are many sites out there (be it professional or personal sites) > hiding > stylesheets from older browsers for e.g. the most common is Netscape > 4x. Jamie There's a big difference between expecting someone to update their antiquated bowser, and shutting out the whole Mac computer platform. What you're telling us Mac people is that we shouldn't have bought that Mac because a PC dominant $Microsoft company can't make a browser that works to standards. It's just plain bull crap. Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * .
Re: [WSG] Font size, and how large is large enough?
I thought this thread was closed by Russ??
Guys, if you do want to keep fighting a never ending argument, please
take it off the list.
Thanks
Original Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Font size, and how large is large enough?
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:48:37 +1000 (EST)
>I've looked at these links earlier and my point was *phew* here we go
>AGAIN...
>
>Verdana is POPULAR! Most people have that. Arial is probably more
>popular,
>so that is next in line as a backup. I understand that they are
>different
>fonts, and I also understand that there are fonts that closer
>resemble
>verdana, but are they as popular as verdana? I dare to say that if
>the
>viewer doesn't have verdana, they won't have these other similar
>fonts
>either... Maybe they do? But I'm gonna live life on the 'typography'
>edge,
>so don't try this at home kids :P
>
>Afterall they are only fonts. I know that comment may offend you but
>I
>have been careful to selelct legible and clear fonts.
>
>Thanks for your concern, but I'm quite happy how the wesite
>functions.
>
>Regards,
>
>Darian Cabot
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>Software Engineer - Website Design
>http://www.cabotconsultants.com.au
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>PS: Ok that was the last post on that thread. I promise! (>_<)
>
>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>> www.cabotconsultants.com.au is fine as a web addy I think. If
>there is
>>> not 'http://', 'ftp://', or whatever one usually assumes http but
>you
>>> don't need to type it.
>>
>> The small attachment should show the difference. You come here
>asking
>> for help. Don't make it harder than necessary for those who wish to
>help
>> you. Most of the time, when someone posting here can't be bothered
>to
>> make the link clickable, I can't be bothered to cut and paste in
>order
>> to visit that URL.
>>
>> If for some reason you don't get the attachment, here is the U R L
>:
>> http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/images/URLorNOT.png
>>
>>> Now I get to the point. VERDANA is my preferred font for the
>website!!!
>>> Ok shoot me, flame me, or suggest a million other sites to
>dissagree but
>>> I've tested my site fairly well and even *without* verdana
>supported.
>>> Everything was fine, so I'm using it. I understand that you've
>>> obviously
>>> visited one too many font offending sites Felix, but as far as I
>can
>>> tell,
>>> I'm not an offender.
>>
>>> > http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/fonts-face-index.html
>>> > http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/font-comps-pt.html
>>> > http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/font-comps-px.html
>>
>> The U R L s above were intended in part to show that
>>
>> body {font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;}
>>
>> falls short of getting you the you the imposing results you're
>after.
>> Assuming you are compelled to impose on any visitor some font other
>than
>> the default the visitor has selected for himself, you might as well
>do a
>> good job of it and make the fallback font one the CLOSELY RESEMBLES
>your
>> primary font. Arial and Helvetica AIN'T that font. There's a font
>in
>> those URL's that is practically a twin to Verdana that is popular
>on
>> systems that don't have Verdana. Can you see which one that is?
>> --
>> "Surely God would not have created such a being as man to exist
>only
>> a day! No, no, man was made for immortality."
>> President Abraham Lincoln
>>
>> Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
>>
>> Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/
>>
>*
>The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
>*
>
Regards,
David McDonald
Web Designer
http://www.davidmcdonald.org
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
*
[WSG] Market Position gets on the bandwagon
The February edition of the Market Position newsletter has an article explaining 'Why you should validate your HTML' http://www.marketposition.com/mp-0204.htm#TWO It's great to see another group, besides developers, starting to understand the benefits of valid code - these guys are in the search engine optimisation market. Some good ammo in there for next time clients ask about the benefits of valid mark-up... Regards, David McDonald Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] W3C standards in Denmark
>From the WASP website: http://www.webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2004_03.html#a000305 "Soren Johannessen of Denmark undertook the task of surveying how many governmental, national, municipal authorities follow the W3C Standards for HTML/XHTML markup in Denmark" Some of the results can be found here: http://www.ae35-unit.dk/standard/english.html Regards, David McDonald Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG]
D. Keith Robinson has started an interesting discussion, called 'Why Not Web Standards?', at Asterisk. He's asking why people aren't using web standards, and the reasons for it: "Im very curious as to why people have shied away from Web standards. Im very interested in hearing from people who either dont support Web standards at all or are still struggling with it." http://www.7nights.com/asterisk/archives/why_not_web_standards.php Regards, David McDonald Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] A stylesheet which makes IE standards-compliant!
This has been discussed on the list last week. If you log in to the webstandardsgroup discussion list archive, and do a search for the keyword IE7, you will be able to read the posts relating to this subject: http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/archive.cfm?body=1&searchstring=ie 7 Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] A stylesheet which makes IE standards-compliant! Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:22:59 +0900 > >That "IE7" hack looks interesting and I would like to have a play >with >it, but the download "link" doesn't seem to be functional... > >Has anyone else been able to get hold of it? > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >On >Behalf Of Phillips, Wendy >Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 6:56 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [WSG] A stylesheet which makes IE standards-compliant! > > >as a matter of interest ... > >http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/04/03/12/0454228.shtml > > > >Wendy Phillips >Job Ready (Learning & Development) >Customer Sales & Service >___ > >Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Ph: 61 3 9203 2363 >Building 1, Ground Floor, 301 Burwood Hwy >Burwood 3125 > >Our Intranet Site >http://www.in.telstra.com.au/ism/retail_learning_cs/ > >* >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ >* > >***** >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ >* > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
Peter, Great site. Well done. Personally, I'd probably loose the standards message altogether for a couple of reasons: Text only and aural browsers will get this message on every page People may be using text/aural/non-standard browsers for a reason, such as a disability etc, and may not be able to upgrade to a different browser Your pages will have the following description in search egnines: "Cinema4D User - NOTE: You are using an outdated browser that is not allowing you to view modern sites such as this one correctly. Update your browser - it's easy to do and you'll have a much better internet experience." Anyway, becasue you've done a great job on the site, it works well in plain text anyway, so again I don't think you need that message there! Good work, Peter Regards, David McDonald Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] New CSS site Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:49:43 +1100 >Hi all > >Just about to be officially announced, my new fully CSS/XHTML 1.0 >Trans >site, and the smoothest experience I've had with css so far: > >http://www.cinema4duser.com > >Comments and crits most welcome. >Peter > >Universal Head >Design That Works. > >7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore >NSW 2048 Australia >T (+612) 9517 1466 >F (+612) 9565 4747 >E [EMAIL PROTECTED] >W www.universalhead.com > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Lists & weird requirement
Yes, I have used this concept (floats) before for a calendar. If anyone wants the code, feel free to contact me off list. David McDonald Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Lists & weird requirement Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:57:06 +1100 > >I believe Calendars would be a great use of floats, just set a height > >and width, float left limit the row float to seven days and you have >a >cascading day based calendar. > >Cheers >James > >Jaime Wong wrote: > >>Just a quick question Russ to make sure I understand better. >> >>Calendars and events (with dates and venue) or even for e.g. certain >>competition results (with points) would be more suitable to be done >with >>tables rather than CSS right? >> >> >>With Regards >>Jaime Wong >> >* >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ >* > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list
I don't know if I'm for splitting the mailing list up into several lists. As others have said, it would then make it "sort of" like a forum - I would be checking several folders in my mailing client, and maybe missing out on some important or interesting post... Are others in favour of doing this? Or not? Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:15:35 +1100 > >> I might just point out some of the other WSG bits & pieces >> that many people >> probably aren't aware of: >> - the resources section >> <http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/> (which I >> believe everyone on the list is able to add to) >> - the WSG CMS list (buggered if I can remember how you join... >Pete?) > >Thanks Lindsay. > >It's only had 8 posts so far (4 from me). >See http://www.mail-archive.com/cms%40webstandardsgroup.org/ > >To join, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with >"subscribe cms" >(no quotes) as the body (not subject). > >The [WSG] is added at the mail server so Taco's would be an addition >to that >which I can't see working (I'd forget every time). > >I'm happy to set up different lists if you like, but maintenance >would be a >bit weird. We get a couple of hundred bounces every day (and if >you've >mysteriously been transformed to digest mode it means that you were >bouncing >for an extended period and I changed your mode so I only had one >bounce per >day from you to deal with). > >So far we have: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (The primary one) >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (optional) > >We could also do other variants: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >This would mean that people only interested in general standards >discussion >could just remain on the default list and those that wanted to also >get (or >give) CSS help could joint the CSS list as well. > >I would make the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mandatory (your login is >based on >this one) with the others as options. There should be no increase in >traffic, just a split and a possibility of significantly less traffic >for >the person that doesn't do CSS coding but wants to keep abreast of >the other >discussions. > >It would mean that I would bulk subscribe everyone currently on wsg@ >to each >of the new lists (but not cms@) and then allow you to unsub each >manually if >you want to as I don't want to have to enter specifics for 330ish >people. > >Is this worth pursuing? > >While we're at it... > >Please make sure you free email account doesn't go over quota. >Please don't ever request read receipts (I get most of them rather >than >you). > >P > > >* >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ >* > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list
Hi there,
I've also recently been a little concerned by the amount of "how to"
posts, and the repetitive back and forth email that some of these
posts generate.
However, I do realise that people find some of these posts valuable.
When thinking about it a bit more, I realised that it's actually the
solutions to these problems that people find valuable.
So how about doing something similar to what Simon Willison has done
for the CSS-Discuss mailing list? He has created a "companion" site
that basically has a list of FAQs, tecnhiques, how-to's, step by step
examples etc.
We have the Resources page on our site,
http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/ so maybe we should get in
there and use it in a similar way. This would be beneficial to
everyone, both new members and old, as we could point people with
specifc problems to the resources pages, and maybe keep the list a
little less heavy in the process.
This would take some effort on our behalf - I am happy to dedicate
some time into getting the Resources pages up to speed, and I know
others would as well.
What does everyone think?
Regards.
David McDonald
Original Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:53:38 +1100
>
>Hi Taco
>
>> [CSS]
>> [WSG] Web Standards
>> [OT] Off topic
>> {TOT] Totally Of Topic ;-)
>
>If you're in the mood to write a [OT] or [TOT] message - please
>don't. Mail
>volume is an issue and the list mums (Russ & Peter) have made call -
>keep it
>on topic or post else where (like CFAUSSIE where this stuff is ok).
>
>I'm not meaning to be harsh but we need to be considerate of those
>that are
>concerned about mail volume.
>
>
>Cheers
>
>Mark
>
>
>--
>Mark Stanton
>Technical Director
>Gruden Pty Ltd
>Tel: 9956 6388
>Mob: 0410 458 201
>Fax: 9956 8433
>http://www.gruden.com
>
>*****
>The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>*
>
Regards,
David McDonald
Web Designer
http://www.davidmcdonald.org
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*
RE: [WSG] turning back to the dark side...
Paul,
I've taken a quick look, and from a quick test, the following fixes
the layout problem in IE:
Change the #container width to 752px
Change #navbar50 to the following:
#navbar50 {
display: inline;
width: 562px;
padding: 0px;
margin: 0px;
background-color: #eee;
}
Add in:
#navbar50 a{
float: left;
width: 188px;
}
That will now display the three images beside each other.
To stop horizontal scrolling, you now need to bring in the width of
#leftnav and the image inside it a couple of pixels (4px - i think)
Also, that series of about 50 break tags in a row is very strange -
I'm not sure why they are in there, and they don't need to be if you
rework the floats a little.
Original Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] turning back to the dark side...
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:20:06 +1000
>
>Hello folks,
>
>I have reached the end of my patience with am about to ditch
>XHTML/CSS as
>a realistic working method and go back to using HTML tables until the
>technology
>has matured enough to be ready for the big-time. Yet again I have a
>valid XHTML
>transitional site that refuses to render correctly in IEx. This is my
>3rd site
>in a row that has come up with one IE bug after another. I am
>spending more time
>on hacking for IE than I am in building the damn sites!
>
>Can anyone save me from turing back to the dark side and see where
>the problem
>lies on this page for example...?
>
>http://www.books24x7.net.au/faqs.html
>
>If you look on any version of IE you'll see the 3 graphics along the
>top break
>and the end one wraps underneath. They are supposed to be aligned | 1
>| 2 | 3 |
>and they do in Mozilla, Firebird/fox, Opera.
>
>I have researched online all the IE specific bugs and come to the
>conclusion
>that IE does not like the pixel perfect dimensions and is (for some
>reason)
>saying the graphics are too big for the container. I have tried the
>Tan Hack and
>the Holly Hack which fix half the issues but am still seeing errors.
>
>Regards
>PAUL ROSS
>SkyRocket Design Co
>http://www.skyrocket.com.au
>
>-
>This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
>*****
>The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>*
>
Regards,
David McDonald
Web Designer
http://www.davidmcdonald.org
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*
RE: [WSG] classguide
Peter, Yes, I agree, the Jetstar classnames are incomprehensible. I'm currently writing the styleguide for BHP Billiton's site templates, and I am including in it a section on div id's and classes, and what they represent. Information in this section includes how the different divs work in the context of the page, and in context with other divs, basic outlining of how the the divs structure and inheritance works and I've made sure our naming conventions for id's and classes can be read and understood by people who weren't involved in the project. Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] classguide Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:19:51 +1100 >hiya, > >I noticed that the much publicized new qantas airline - >http://www.jetstar.com/ <http://www.jetstar.com/> - launched their >site >with a css layout. >I havent had a real look at the code, but my question is more about >class >and id names. when you have a pretty complicated site and you end up >using >some sort of naming convention for classes/ids like they have on >jetstar >such as: > >class="c1FsFc" > >...that classname obviously means something to the web team at >jetstar but >no one else. does anyone put together a document on handover >detailing what >everything means in their css to aid any changes down the track that >someone >else may have to make? kinda like a "classguide" as opposed to a >styleguide? >it'd involve layout classes and stuff aswell - so wouldn't be as easy >as >just a page with an example of each style applied to a bit of text >... > >interested if anyone has this sort of thing or similar built into >their >process and any experiences youve had.. ? > >pete Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Image replace or ALT text?
Douglas Bowman has an article that goes in depth on one of the image replacement techniques, and there are links to other techniques at the bottom of the article: http://www.stopdesign.com/also/articles/replace_text/ Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Image replace or ALT text? Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:39:10 +1100 > >Cameron Adams wrote: >> It reminded me as to a point I'd thought about >> regarding background image replacement. Sure, using a >> ul with visually hidden text and background images for >> navigation is semantically correct, but wasn't it much >> better in the old days when you used an actual image >> with alt text and you knew what something was even >> before it loaded. Especially important for navigation items. > >Interesting, I'd never thought of the drawbacks of the various image >replacement techniques in regards to showing text while images load. > >Personally, I *hate* having images as navigation items, mostly >because if >(when) the navigation changes, you'll need to create new graphics for >it. I >usually have a generic background image, with the text part of the >nav item >as actual text. Obviously this isn't really an option for headers >etc. when >the client wants some particular font for branding purposes or >whatever. > >As a complete aside - what the hell ever happened to embedded fonts? >AFAIK >it's still part of the CSS spec, and IE & NS4 implemented it pretty >well, >but Moz seems to have dropped it completely. It seems (to me, anyway) >to be >the perfect answer - create a downloadable version of whatever crazy >font >you need, control the letter spacing etc. with CSS, add your >gradient/picture of a cat/whatever as a background image, and voila! >no need >for any of this other text-hiding craziness. > >Anyway, I think you are probably quite right: if you have a dire need >for a >bunch of images-as-nav-items, then they would be more usable as >images - >definitely less semantically correct, possibly even less accessible, >but >more usable nonetheless. > >> I'm aware of image replacement techniques that also >> allow you to see text when the image isn't there, but >> they seem very clumsy, so I'm asking whether the old >> skool method's usability outweighs its unfashionable >> unsemanticness. > >What are some of these techniques? I don't think I've seen any that >do that >around (not that I've looked very hard, mind you :) > >-- > Lindsay Evans. > Developer, > Red Square Productions. > > [p] 8596.4000 > [f] 8596.4001 > [w] www.redsquare.com.au > >* >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ >* > Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Need help with navbar in Opera 7.11 please
Michael, Make sure all floats have a width - Opera is particularly demanding about this. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 -Original Message- From: Michael Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2004 2:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Need help with navbar in Opera 7.11 please I've put this page up on my dev site, and it works fine in IE6, fine in NN7.1, but in Opera 7.11 the lower level of menus are arranged vertically instead of horizontally. I'm not sure what's wrong - they worked ok this afternoon, now I've made some changes and they don't work. "Easy," I said to myself, "just put it back how it was this afternoon and it'll work again, then do the changes one at a time till it breaks then you'll know what you did wrong." Except when I loaded up this afternoon's version it still arranges the submenus vertically. Huh? I've looked and looked and I'm obviously too close to it because I cant see what's causing it to behave like that. Can anyone else see please? The page is at http://mezzanines.com.au/casestudies.cfm And the CSS is at http://mezzanines.com.au/styles/mezzanine.css and http://mezzanines.com.au/styles/menutabs.css I'm fully aware that the problem is probably going to end up being something stupid like a forgotten semicolon or something, but it verifies ok and so does the XHTML. (Oh and in case anyone's done some work in this field - all the text is stuff I've mocked up for the client - he's busily writing his own text now.) Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] horizontal nav bar nightmare
Michael, Your layout is looking good. However, in Opera 7.2, the footer seems to be positioned half below the browser window. I have emailed you a screenshot off list. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 -Original Message- From: Michael Donnermeyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2004 10:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] horizontal nav bar nightmare I played with it a little and here's what I got. The horizontal nav bar needs some tweaking, although I don't think it's possible to do much about the small left area that's not covered on hovers. I got it as close as possible in Safari & Firebird, have no clue about IE on the Win side as my test station is down at the moment. It does have a major issue on IE5 Mac though, but should be fixable if you try. Here's a link to the changes I made: http://homepage.mac.com/mdnky/yoga/yoga.html On Feb 11, 2004, at 13:54, Michael Donnermeyer wrote: > On Feb 10, 2004, at 23:56, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> >> Here is the site: >> www.desertstandard.net/YV/ >> >> The first problem is with the main horizontal nav bar. I need it to >> sit about 3 to 5px's from the purple header and it needs to be >> centered on the page. Client wants it to look like their brochure of >> course. I have put a orange bar on the background for reference. I >> cannot get it to sit there on the latest versions of all the browsers >> and I am having trouble with the centering. >> >> The second problem is with the sub nav menu in the Classes section. >> In IE 6 it keeps 'bouncing' up and down and I obviously only need it >> to sit still. >> >> Any suggestions are appreciated. I am close to scraping it and using >> tables. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Roger >> * >> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ >> * >> > > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced
Mark,
Yes, I am as disappointed as you are about this. I received the email from
AIMIA and felt exactly the same. What's more, it would cost my company $500
a year to join AIMIA. I found that out after having to give them my private
details first, then I was told what the prices were to join. Great process.
I don't have any solutions at present. In fact a few events (relating to web
standards) in the last few weeks at my current contract and online have made
me feel that we really are fighting an uphill battle. Maybe we have to be
more vocal about standards, or make our message disseminate further and
wider - but at the moment I'm not sure how to do this, or even if
designers/developers such as those who won AIMIA awards would even listen
...
Regards,
David McDonald
Web Designer
http://www.davidmcdonald.org
Southbank, Melbourne
Australia
Mobile: 0403 332 140
ICQ: 11814164
-Original Message-
From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2004 7:14 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Tenth AIMIA Awards announced
Wow - the Grammies of web design. One day these awards might pay
attention to what is actually going on in the web medium & not treat sites
as high bandwidth, "interactive" TV ads.
There are a couple of good ones in there, a couple of your usual flash
eye-candy sites and a whole bunch of rubbish.
This one looks good - http://www.ecorecycle.vic.gov.au/ - Government site,
nice "table & spacer image" based layout doing a good impression of a css
layout (all the rage these days you hear!) and an "Accessibility Rating"
link in the footer. Click the link
"This site is not optimised for your browser. To view this site successfully
you need Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 and above or Netscape 4.0 and
above.
You can upgrade your browser from the following locations:
* Internet Explorer
* Netscape
You may proceed to the site but you may experience difficulty viewing pages.
Proceed to the home page." -
http://www.ecorecycle.vic.gov.au/www/unsupported_browser.asp
Award winning indeed. Sorry for the negativity.
Ok that was my initial reaction on seeing the awards site - I didn't send
the email at 4pm because I thought there was too much emotion there & not
enough thought. I've chilled a bit now & here's my take.
These web design awards are a pretty sorry reflection on the state of the
industry - pretty much every award I've seen places all the emphasis on
eye-candy and none on the underlying quality of a web page in terms of how
well does it "plays" in the Internet space. I'm not suggesting that sites
should win these awards solely because they are standards compliant, but
that should be a factor at least - particularly basic accessibility.
Funnily enough I've just had a guy wander into the office - I saw the name
of his company when I was browsing the AIMIA site and asked him about the
awards & gave him my take on it all. It turns out he was a judge in some of
the categories (oops). His impression is that they have to make a decision
based on the limited number of sites that are put in front of them. Also
many of the judges are not qualified or experienced in web standards, they
are just your regular IE users with broadband connections.
Another point to make is that AIMIA does stand for Australian Interactive
Media Industry Association and not Web Standards Group.
But still, its kinda sad that despite the progress made in developing
standards compliant sites - it's a long long way from being main stream. So
is it a problem that these awards and other "best of breed" website
showcases like the MM "Site of the day" ignore standards compliance and
accessibility as valid parts of a good web development?
If so what can be done about it? I'm really interested in some ideas.
"Boundary-busting, stylistically baroque experiments built with DHTML and
Flash will continue to win awards as long as judges continue to view them in
the latest browsers on wide-screen G4s and Pentiums with T1 connections.
And, it goes without saying, they will win these awards only if they are
prize-worthy in their graphic design and programming. We're not talking
about bad design, here. We're talking about design at the highest levels -
but design of a certain type only.
...
I worry about the medium, because not enough designers are working in that
vast middle ground between eye candy and hardcore usability where most of
the Web must be built. And there are fewer and fewer incentives for Web
designers to toil in these fields, since this type of work pleases Web users
but wins absolutely no recognition from the industry, aside from a paycheck.
("My God, it loaded so quickly and worked so well, even in IE3 on my Dad's
old Dell machine.
RE: [WSG] Yep, going slowly insane
Title: Message Peter, What I have found, is that by using an XHTML Strict doctype rather than a XHTMLTransitional doctype, things seem to come together with a lot more consistency across the different browsers. Hope this helps... Regards,David McDonaldWeb Designerhttp://www.davidmcdonald.orgSouthbank, MelbourneAustraliaMobile: 0403 332 140ICQ: 11814164
RE: [WSG] newbie discovers absolute positioning
Title: Message Peter, It a technique that I use quite often, and is very useful for certain situations. Douglas Bowman explained it in depth in one of his articles: http://www.stopdesign.com/also/articles/absolute/ Regards,David McDonaldWeb Designerhttp://www.davidmcdonald.orgSouthbank, MelbourneAustraliaMobile: 0403 332 140ICQ: 11814164 -Original Message-From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2004 3:06 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] newbie discovers absolute positioning Opinions welcome: I'm working on a new job and looking at code on various sites I recently discovered the joys of creating a container that is centred position:relative with margin: 0 auto; in the browser window, and then setting divs within it that are position:absolute ,using top , left, width and height pixel settings, to the container. So far (up to the coloured boxes stage of the proceedings - thanks Russ!) everything seems to be working beautifully. Is it my imagination or is this method so much easier to work with than fiddling about with floats? I was shocked to see my layout work in all the test browsers, first time. Peter-- peter gifforduniversal head design that worksvisit 7/43 bridge road stanmore nsw 2048 australiacall (+612) 9517 1466fax (+612) 9565 4747email [EMAIL PROTECTED]site www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] Calendar Day Highlighting
An idea - Given the recent discussion on definition list, maybe you could build it with those as an alternative? Nice work. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 -Original Message- From: Anton Andreasson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 28 January 2004 11:19 PM To: Webstandardsgroup Subject: [WSG] Calendar Day Highlighting Hi all, I throw together a simple "calendar" that highlights each day on :hover, hope you find it intresting (given the tight code): http://standardice.com/experimental/calendarhighlighting.html cheers, /Anton PS. I was inspired by the Flash calendar at http://www.vcc.com.my/calendar/index2.cfm and I'll try to mimic it even further ;) -- What your lacks, your compensates. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] OT: damn I feel old
Guys, Well, you know what? It's my birthday today... Jan 20th... and I am the ripe old age of 33... hic... !!! Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 -Original Message- From: Kym Kovan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 19 January 2004 7:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] OT: damn I feel old Peter wrote: >I'm definitely not the oldest here at 41! You know that because you know that I officially became "old" on my last birthday. And then they changed the rules a few months later and now I am middle-aged again! :-) -- Yours, Kym * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] OT: Social Circles (mapping mailing lists)
Interesting post today on CSS-D about a flash app called Social Circles that maps the interactions that happen in mailing lists. You can see it working at http://www.marumushi.com/apps/socialcircles/ At present, it has about 10 mailing lists,including CSS-D, that you can map the internal interactions of. Russ, can you add WSG to the list? Regards, David McDonald Web Designer Melbourne, Australia http://www.davidmcdonald.org ICQ:11814164 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] stumped by these ones
Peter, You've done great work so far - stick with it! I know the feeling of frustration with this sort of stuff, but believe me it does get a bit easier with each site you build. What also happens is that maintenance on these sites becomes very easy as well. Did my previous post regarding Mac IE 5 needing widths for floats and the issue that the "voice-family" hack may be hiding the widths for some floats from Mac IE 5 help at all? Also, try sending a different stylesheet to Mac IE 5: @import 'nonmac.css'; /* for everyone but mac ie 5 */ @im\port "mac.css"; /* for mac ie5 */ In the short term, if you need to get the project finished quickly, this may now be a viable option (i know it's a hack...). This way you can keep your voice family hacks within the non-mac CSS, and remove it from the Mac CSS. If you have time at a later stage, you can go back and try to minimise the amount of hacks in the non-mac CSS, so that it the CSS works cross platform. Hope this helps. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer Melbourne, Australia http://www.davidmcdonald.org ICQ:11814164 - Original Message - From: Universal Head <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2004 11:29 am Subject: Re: [WSG] stumped by these ones > > I'm beginning to flirt with the concept of despair - it seems > everytime I fix something in one browser it causes a problem in > another browser! I know there's a learning curve with this stuff > but > this is getting ridiculous. > > So far this site has taken me double the time it would take to do > a > normal site, all for the pleasure of simplifying the code and > giving > advantages to the client that, to be totally honest, they couldn't > care a tinker's cuss about. > > If someone has the time and the inclination please check this out > for > me and let me know what's going on. After redoing the divs for the > index page, it's now working for Mac IE5.2 and broken in Win IE6. > ARGH! > > http://www.universalhead.com/clients/jands/ > http://universalhead.com/clients/jands/css/jands.css > > Much appreciated - save from writing off this whole bloody css > business as unprofitable! > Peter > -- > > > peter gifford > > universal head > design that works > > visit 7/43 bridge road > stanmore nsw 2048 > australia > call (+612) 9517 1466 > fax (+612) 9565 4747 > email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > site www.universalhead.com > > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > * > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Recommended CSS navigation code?
Brendan, The most flexible, easy to implement and standard comliant menus I have found so far come from a member of this list! http://inspire.server101.com/js/mb/ I have used Ben Boyle's menus, or a variation of, in many sites, including http://www.bhpbilliton.com Regards, David McDonald Web Designer Melbourne, Australia http://www.davidmcdonald.org ICQ:11814164 - Original Message - From: Brendan Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2004 11:05 am Subject: [WSG] Recommended CSS navigation code? > Hi all, > > After two days of stalling, I'm now in the proverbial. I need to > find a CSS based drop down menu somewhat like the suckerfish menus > for an intranet project "that grew too big". I've checked out a > few, none really grab me. I had built a menu out of Aaron > Broodman's ypSlideOutMenus, but it all got too confusing for the > users (God knows how, it was simple! Too much motion maybe.). > > I need it to handle just two levels of navigation, with maybe the > possiblity of handling a third. It's no biggie if it only handles > two however. > > Suckerfish doesn't make the grade visually, mainly because the > menu is generated from a DB and different users get different > options. Suckerfish's set menu item width makes for an ugly > misalignment for items like: "IT" and "Lodgements". > > Any options will be considered. The winning menu gets to be in the > most convoluted project in modern times. > > Brendan > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] stumped by these ones
Peter, Nice design! I've noticed in previous layouts that I have done, that Mac IE 5 needs every float to have an accompanying width or it does crap out. I've also noticed that if the width is within the "voice family" hack, as it is in some of your CSS, then Mac IE 5 tends to ignore it. The solution I have used is either to send another stylesheet to Mac IE 5, by doing something like: @import 'stylesheet.css'; /* for everyone but mac ie 5 */ @im\port "macstylesheet.css"; /* for mac ie5 */ ...which is another hack and probably not the best solution. Or you could try to get rid of the "voice family" hacks. This would probably involve using a strict doctype though, and may be a bit more work. A great resource on Mac IE 5 CSS bugs can be found at: http://www.macedition.com/cb/ie5macbugs/ Once again - great looking site! Well done! Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 -Original Message- From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 14 January 2004 9:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] stumped by these ones Hope someone can help me with these last problems - I'm stumped. See http://www.universalhead.com/clients/jands/ Everything's fine in Safari, Mac Mozilla Firebird, Win Netscape7.1 and Win IE5. In Win IE 6 the bottom right-hand image goes down underneath the others. I've tried everything and can't find a solution. In Mac IE5.2 the whole layout breaks, and I have no idea why. Please help! I'm at the home stretch and this is the last hurdle! CSS is at http://universalhead.com/clients/jands/css/jands.css It's a picky business this CSS ain't it? Many, many thanks, -- peter gifford universal head design that works visit 7/43 bridge road stanmore nsw 2048 australia call(+612) 9517 1466 fax (+612) 9565 4747 email [EMAIL PROTECTED] sitewww.universalhead.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] ordered list for events
Peter. Without being able to test where I currently am at the moment (so forgive me if I am wrong), you should be able to use: list-style-position: outside; within the style definition to do what you want. The values for list-style-position are: inside outside inherit Regards, David McDonald Web Designer Melbourne, Australia http://www.davidmcdonald.org ICQ:11814164 - Original Message - From: Peter Ottery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:10 pm Subject: [WSG] ordered list for events > Hi all, > I've got a simple list of events with dates and am trying to keep > it as a > simple ordered list. > > http://www.c41.com.au/test.html <" > target="l">http://www.c41.com.au/test.html> shows my > example with everything else stripped out. (the css is inline just > for ease > of creating the example.) > > I thought I had it sorted until I realised that it goes a bit out > of whack > when the event name is long and wraps back down underneath the date. > I'd like to have the event name wrap - but just under itself - > basically the > same as a simple but ye olde table structure would where each > date/eventname were in a different table cell. > > any ideas on how to get this working nicely or a better way of > doing it? > > pete ottery > > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Colored boxes - one method of building full CSS layouts
Hey, that's almost exactly how I work!! Nice info, Russ - thanks. I normally put a red border around the current I am working on, so I know exactly what is happening. Coloured are better though, as then you don't have to worry about box model problems when you add/remove the red borders. I've also found that the different combinations of browsers tend to render a bit more uniformly if I use an XHTML Strict doctype, as compared to an XHTML Transitional doctype or quirks mode. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 -Original Message- From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 13 January 2004 5:52 PM To: Web Standards Group Subject: [WSG] Colored boxes - one method of building full CSS layouts How do you go about building a full CSS layout? Is there an overall method that can be used for any layout? Colored boxes - one method of building full CSS layouts: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/process/index.cfm This article explains one method of building a full CSS layout from start to finish. The method, based on positioning colored boxes and testing across a range of browsers, can be used to build a wide range of full-CSS layouts. Russ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Big trouble!
The client's description of: "text initially" and "then changed back to what it should look like complete with pics" sounds like the infamous FUSC , or Flash of Unstyled Content. More info can be found here: http://www.bluerobot.com/web/css/fouc.asp as well as a google search: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=flash+of+unstyled+content&btnG=Google+Search Regards, David McDonald Web Designer Melbourne, Australia http://www.davidmcdonald.org ICQ:11814164 - Original Message - From: stuart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 4:29 pm Subject: [WSG] Big trouble! > > Can someone with a PC and IE check this site/page for me, > http://www.weddingphotography.com.au/prices/index.htm > > It has been behaving badly from day 1 my client > is very old school and the best trouble shooting > message I can get out them is "it doesn't work". > They are unable to tell me what version browser > is in use at the time the problems are occurring? > > here's an example of the kind of message I'm > getting, frankly I can't afford to lose any more > hair over this one! > ~~~ > "I've had a look at the site and I cannot get > onto the prices page either. It was interesting > actually??When I typed in the address to go to > the site, it bought up a page full of text > initially (no pictures?just big text of 'wedding > photographers'), and then changed back to what it > should look like complete with pics." > ~~~ > > Obvioulsy I need as much info as needed to > troubleshoot this, I'm sure there is some > obliging person here who can help? > > FWIW the page/s in question validate as does the CSS > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > * > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Rendering Problem with IE 6
If anyone has the time to help me with an annoying IE 6 rendering bug tonight, please feel free to contact me via email or: MSN : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 11814164 Source code and frustration will be provided ... Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Rendering Problem with IE 6
Thanks for the tips James, unfortunately I dont have IE 6 here at the moment to test your suggestions - will do so tonight. The strange thing is if i remove the image (the #thumbnail div) then it renders fine in IE 6. Anyway for now I have droppped the top padding on the list item within the secondlevelnav div. That moves everything up and gets around the overlap problem for now ... maybe overflow:visible may have something to do with it? Regards, David McDonald Web Designer Melbourne, Australia http://www.davidmcdonald.org ICQ:11814164 - Original Message - From: James Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 9:29 am Subject: Re: [WSG] Rendering Problem with IE 6 > > David - > The only thing I can see is a bit of whitespace under the > navigation > buttons. You could add a filler list element at the end of your > list to > make the UL expand to the same "height" as the navigation LI's (as > they > are floated left they are out of the flow causing the UL to resize > to 0 > height.) > > eg > > > Company > Profile > http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > * > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Rendering Problem with IE 6
Adam,
Thanks for the help. Ive tried adding those declarations to the CSS - you
can see the page live now - it didn't seem to make much difference.
Regards,
David McDonald
Web Designer
http://www.davidmcdonald.org
Southbank, Melbourne
Australia
Mobile: 0403 332 140
ICQ: 11814164
-Original Message-
From: Adam Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 17 December 2003 1:45 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Rendering Problem with IE 6
David McDonald wrote:
> I am hoping someone on the list can help me - I've been tearing my
> hair out for hours now. I am having a problem with IE 6, where there
> is a large gap above the content area:
Appears that the top of "content" lines up with with the bottom of
"secondlevelnav" almost exactly.
>
> http://staging.skillsedit.com/clientsites/caraipm/standard.css
>
> I am using a XHTML Strict Doctype, and the only thing not validating
> is the use of a target attribute, which is from some generated code.
>
Do you need target? If not, I'd probably remove it. It's valuable
bandwidth. :P
>
> However I can't get rid of the gap above the content in IE 6 - does
> anyone know what is going on?
How does it go if you set
[css]
#secondlevelnav
{
display: inline;
float: left;
}
#content
{
display: inline;
float: right;
}
[/css]
Leaving your markup as is?
I noticed you have currently have them set as "display: block;"
OT: I posted some stuff in the [css] & [/css] boxes. I'm posting another
message about that now.
--
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[WSG] Rendering Problem with IE 6
I am hoping someone on the list can help me - I've been tearing my hair out for hours now. I am having a problem with IE 6, where there is a large gap above the content area: http://staging.skillsedit.com/clientsites/caraipm/display.asp?entityid=194 CSS can be found at: http://staging.skillsedit.com/clientsites/caraipm/standard.css I am using a XHTML Strict Doctype, and the only thing not validating is the use of a target attribute, which is from some generated code. I am not getting the gap above the content in Mozilla or Firebird. Opera is not rendering the gap either, although there are some rendering bugs in Opera which I am not concerned about at present. However I can't get rid of the gap above the content in IE 6 - does anyone know what is going on? Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] [OT everso slightly] Gramophone web site
On the topic of drop down menus, i've found Ben Boyle's menus to be extremely useful: http://inspire.server101.com/js/mb/mb.html I think Ben's a member of this list, too. The menus are built with plaint text, list items, CSS and a little javascript and seem to work very well cross browser, including Mac IE 5 and Safari. If javascript is not enabled, the user is presented with a list item as an alternative. I've used variations of these menus for quite a few sites I have worked on, and they are very extensible and customisable. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer Melbourne, Australia http://www.davidmcdonald.org ICQ:11814164 - Original Message - From: James Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, December 12, 2003 9:56 am Subject: Re: [WSG] [OT everso slightly] Gramophone web site > > Looks like they are using Javascript to launch links. Doesn't work > in > Firebird. Venkman gives it a big thumbs down. > > "Error: document.newsnav has no properties > Source File: http://www.gramophone.co.uk/inc/navnn.js.asp > Line: 68" > > The JS file has an ASP extension. > > Gotta love those spacer gifs. > > Cheers > James > > Jonathan Baldwin wrote: > > > > > I just visited the web site of Gramophone magazine, looking for > a CD > > review. I'm using Safari - the buttons on the site don't work, > they're > > all just # links. > > I've looked in the source code and am wondering why they don't > work > > before I email them and let them know. Any guesses it might be a > case > > of "this site does not support Macs?" Whatever the problem my > bleary > > eyes just aren't seeing it. > > > > I'm interested to know the reason it's "broken" (if it is) so I > can > > use it as an example of what to avoid with students at some point. > > > > http://www.gramophone.co.uk > > > > Jonathan > > > > * > > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > * > > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > * > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] A few links for a Thursday...
That's OK! I thought that the layouts looked a bit plain (without the images) - or that I was missing something ... Anyway, it's a good article. The syndication of Russ Worldwide continues!! Regards, David McDonald Web Designer Melbourne, Australia http://www.davidmcdonald.org ICQ:11814164 - Original Message - From: russ weakley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, December 11, 2003 3:41 pm Subject: Re: [WSG] A few links for a Thursday... > David, correct! The site owner has been contacted. Thanks for the > pickup - > makes the entire article pointless really : ) > Russ > > > > > > > > > > Is it just me, or are the images missing from Russ's two column > tutorial at > > http://nemesis1.f2o.org/articles ? > > > > Regards, > > > > David McDonald > > Web Designer > > Melbourne, Australia > > http://www.davidmcdonald.org > > > > ICQ:11814164 > > > > - Original Message - > > From: russ weakley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Thursday, December 11, 2003 12:03 pm > > Subject: [WSG] A few links for a Thursday... > > > >> 1. > >> Westciv Free CSS1 course is now starting. Every week a new major > >> sectionwill become available, but the old installments will > disappear.>> http://www.westciv.com/courses/free/index.html > >> > >> 2. > >> Nemesis article: Two columns with color - a simple step by step > >> tutorial on > >> how make a two column CSS layout with columns in color. > >> http://nemesis1.f2o.org/articles > >> > >> 3. > >> Via Literary Moose, check out the CSS lamp: > >> http://www.mraveniste.org/weblog/css-lampa/ > >> > >> Now... If I could just get those two promised links from > >> particular members > >> regarding number plates and bar graphs... :) > > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > * > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] A few links for a Thursday...
Is it just me, or are the images missing from Russ's two column tutorial at http://nemesis1.f2o.org/articles ? Regards, David McDonald Web Designer Melbourne, Australia http://www.davidmcdonald.org ICQ:11814164 - Original Message - From: russ weakley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, December 11, 2003 12:03 pm Subject: [WSG] A few links for a Thursday... > 1. > Westciv Free CSS1 course is now starting. Every week a new major > sectionwill become available, but the old installments will disappear. > http://www.westciv.com/courses/free/index.html > > 2. > Nemesis article: Two columns with color - a simple step by step > tutorial on > how make a two column CSS layout with columns in color. > http://nemesis1.f2o.org/articles > > 3. > Via Literary Moose, check out the CSS lamp: > http://www.mraveniste.org/weblog/css-lampa/ > > Now... If I could just get those two promised links from > particular members > regarding number plates and bar graphs... :) > > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > * > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Walking Text in IE
Tim, It's a known bug in IE - see: http://nemesis1.f2o.org/bugs_t?bname=Creeping%20Text And http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/creep.html Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 -Original Message- From: Tim Lucas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 22 November 2003 2:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Walking Text in IE I have a serious case of text going walkies off the left hand side of the page in IE: http://www.twoslabs.com/ Anybody have any idea why this is happening? Cheers, tim * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Preparing for DOCTYPE
What type of doctype are you adding? Do you have a link to the relevant page? Regards, David McDonald Web Designer Melbourne, Australia http://www.davidmcdonald.org ICQ:11814164 - Original Message - From: Miles Tillinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, November 14, 2003 11:18 am Subject: [WSG] Preparing for DOCTYPE > > Hi, > > I am trying to add a DOCTYPE declaration to a site that never had > it. I've tried lots of different declarations but they all seem > to cause various problems from one browser to another! In > particular, in Mozilla/Netscape 6+ the fonts shrink to an > unreadable size. > > Where is the best place start to work out where the problems lie? > > Regards, > > Miles > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > * > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] style guide
Tim, Try these for starters: Att.com Style Guide: http://www.att.com/style/index.html GE Style Guide: http://www.ge.com/standards/ NYPL Style Guide: http://www.nypl.org/styleguide/ Creating and Using a Styleguide: http://www.tauberkienan.com/ecommerce/styleguide/index.html Regards, David McDonald Web Designer Melbourne, Australia http://www.davidmcdonald.org ICQ:11814164 - Original Message - From: "Hill, Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, November 13, 2003 12:45 pm Subject: [WSG] style guide > Hi I was wondering if anyone had an example of a well laid out style > guide for a web site. > > > > So basically a guide for someone else to get a quick understanding of > the design a site/production. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim Hill > > Computer Associates > > Graphic Artist > > tel: +612 9937 0792 > > fax: +612 9937 0546 > > <')" >[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] hiding styles from mozilla
One technique that I use (when I have to) is this: /* begin box model hack */ height: 262px !important; height: 261px; height/**/:/**/261px; /* end hack */ Basically, Gecko based browsers will use the first value, IE 5.x/Win will apply the second value and IE 6/Win will apply the last value. More hacks to differentiate between IE and gecko bases browsers can be found at: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=BoxModelHack Regards, David McDonald Web Designer Melbourne, Australia http://www.davidmcdonald.org ICQ:11814164 - Original Message - From: James Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, November 7, 2003 12:03 pm Subject: [WSG] hiding styles from mozilla > > Hi guys, > > Is there a known CSS hack to hide styles from Mozilla based browsers? > > For those that are curious... > > I've got a client that is hell bent on having a fixed height site > (sigh).They want the header/footer to remain fixed while the body > content scrolls. > > Now, this is straight forward to achieve using a frameset... > but(!) frames > are evil, the site is 95% complete so i dont want to start choping > it up > now... and... frames are evil. > > so... i thought, using the overflow property would work nicely on > the main > content DIV. Problem is, it leaves an ugly horizontal scrollbar > across the > bottom. So, next best option was to use a IE only property, > "overflow-y" > (not ideal, i know). > > In order for the IE only overflow-y to work, i need to set a fixed > height on > the DIV. This causes Moz based browsers to effectively overflow > the text > OUTSIDE the boundary of the containing div. Meaning the footer now > sits at > the END of the DIV, while the text overflows straight over footer > (its ugly, > trust me). Opera (and hopefully other browsers) automatically > resize the > height to accommodate the content (which is a reasonable compromise). > > So, i could leave the IE only scroll effect in place *if* i could > somehowhide the HEIGHT property from Moz based browsers... > > any ideas? > > James Silva > Web Production > Gruden Pty Ltd > > Tel: +61 02 9956 6388 > Fax: +61 02 9956 8433 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Web: http://www.gruden.com > > > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > * > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Browser test suite
Miles, it's been mentioned before here and it's a great service: htpp://www.browsercam.com Regards, David McDonald Web Designer Melbourne, Australia http://www.davidmcdonald.org ICQ:11814164 - Original Message - From: Miles Tillinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 11:18 am Subject: [WSG] Browser test suite > What kind of setup do ppl here use for browser testing? I'm > setting up a PC with Virtual PC and multiple OS's, but I'm > wondering things like: > > how many installs of each OS needed to test various version of IE > for example, does IE6 on Win2k have different issues to IE6 on any > other Win OS (XP,ME,98) > Is there any way to have multiple IE version on the same OS? > Each OS install will incur another licence fee, so I'm trying to > keep things cheap! > > If there is a better way to do it I'm open to suggestions... > > Cheers, > > Miles. > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > * > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG]Can any JavaScript/DOM gurus help?
Ben, Thanks for the heads up. As I'm under time constraints, I've had to resort to using an HTML 4.01 doctype, which isn't the ultimate solution, but puts Mozilla etc into quirks mode which works. I see now that using indented lists is certainly a good solution for cross browser drop downs - I need to look at that further. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 -Original Message- From: Ben Boyle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 30 September 2003 11:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG]Can any JavaScript/DOM gurus help? I've not had time to review the script in question. But since the topic has come up, I have a drop-down menu in development that might be useful, for comparitive purposes if nothing else. I know there are still bugs with the stylesheet to track down in various browsers. http://inspire.server101.com/js/Benmb/mb.html Expanding menu is a bit more robust: http://inspire.server101.com/js/xc/ as are the tabbed panels ... http://inspire.server101.com/js/tp/ Enjoy :) ps: if anyone spots bugs let me know. cheers Ben * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG]Can any JavaScript/DOM gurus help?
Oops..forgot the URL for the page: http://www.davidmcdonald.dyndns.org:8844/content.asp Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 -Original Message- From: David McDonald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 29 September 2003 9:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG]Can any JavaScript/DOM gurus help? This may be a little off list, but here goes: I'm building a CSS/XHTML site for a client. They have provided JavaScript menu drop down code, which I have scaled back to the bare essentials: http://www.davidmcdonald.dyndns.org:8844/DropDownMenu/menu.js http://www.davidmcdonald.dyndns.org:8844/DropDownMenu/nav_example.asp Things work OK in IE 6 if I use the transitional doctype with an XML declaration: drop downs work fine. However, in Mozilla, Opera etc the drop downs stay in the same position. If I use a strict doctype same thing happens in IE 6. The CSS is at: http://www.davidmcdonald.dyndns.org:8844/styles/global.css http://www.davidmcdonald.dyndns.org:8844/styles/menu.css The dropdown divs are absolutely positioned inside a relative div named #menudropdown. The JavaScript changes the display on the dropdown divs from 'none' to 'block' when needed. I am assuming that the 'block' display is the culprit here? Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG]Can any JavaScript/DOM gurus help?
This may be a little off list, but here goes: I'm building a CSS/XHTML site for a client. They have provided JavaScript menu drop down code, which I have scaled back to the bare essentials: http://www.davidmcdonald.dyndns.org:8844/DropDownMenu/menu.js http://www.davidmcdonald.dyndns.org:8844/DropDownMenu/nav_example.asp Things work OK in IE 6 if I use the transitional doctype with an XML declaration: drop downs work fine. However, in Mozilla, Opera etc the drop downs stay in the same position. If I use a strict doctype same thing happens in IE 6. The CSS is at: http://www.davidmcdonald.dyndns.org:8844/styles/global.css http://www.davidmcdonald.dyndns.org:8844/styles/menu.css The dropdown divs are absolutely positioned inside a relative div named #menudropdown. The JavaScript changes the display on the dropdown divs from 'none' to 'block' when needed. I am assuming that the 'block' display is the culprit here? Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Was: Welcome to all our new members and a quick article Now: Test/Check CSS on different platforms
It's not free, but it's pricing is relatively cheap and you can test real time in almost all browser and OS combos: http://www.browsercam.com If they don't have the OS or browser combo you need, they can load it onto their servers for you. Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org Southbank, Melbourne Australia Mobile: 0403 332 140 ICQ: 11814164 -Original Message- From: Chris Chudleigh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 23 September 2003 11:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG]Welcome to all our new members and a quick article Hello, I'm from Brisbane, Australia. It seems amazing to me how something so fundamental as text can be so difficult to implement consistently on the web. Owen Briggs has an oldish article. This method may work? http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/typography/index.html Any ideas on having some sort of system or network (a free one) to test/check CSS on different platforms and browsers? Chris Chudleigh. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.oceanbreezedesign.com - Original Message - From: "russ weakley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Web Standards Group" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [WSG]Welcome to all our new members and a quick article > Ooops. Forgot to include the link: > http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=UsingEms > > > > > Theoretically, ems and percents are exactly the same and SHOULD > > operate in > > the same way on all browsers, However, to quote CSS-discuss wiki: > > > > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > * > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
