[WSG] Out of Office
I am currently out of the office until 31st July. I will be checking email sporadically but I may not be able to reply until my return. Regards Tim Hatton *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office
I am currently out of the office until 31st July. I will be checking email sporadically but I may not be able to reply until my return. Regards Tim Hatton *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] jQuery Mobile for Mobile site
jQuery Mobile is a nice, if slightly unpolished due to it's very recent release, framework - but you're right - it's primarily intended for apps and I think it works much better if an app is what you have in mind. If you're looking to do something not quite app-like, then I'd point you in the direction of Yiibu (specifically this page http://yiibu.com/about/site/) as an example of what you can do. They're experimenting with a mobile first approach, combined with elements of responsive web design and feature detection in order to provide their content to as many mobile devices as possible. If you dig around their site a little bit, you'll see related articles that are well worth the read. I would also recommend the Mobile Web Yahoo group which is quite active and a great resource for mobile web development. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mobile-web/ Hope that helps! -- Take care, Tim - http://breakingdc.com http://twitter.com/tkadlec http://timkadlec.com On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:06 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote: Any one developing Mobile Web has an insight for jQuery Mobile? I was studying the framework last night, couldn't quite decide whether it's best to adapt it to my mobile web development. After reading the documentation and tested all demos, my impression is, it's more geared towards Apps. The Accessibility, supported platforms (knowing that I wouldn't be able to test on Palm, Nokia and Blackerry devices, the supported platforms is very attractive) and Navigation: Ajax, hashes history are very attractive. But I am not keen on the idea having to assign an ID to every tag and every selector [1]. See please note [1] http://jquerymobile.com/demos/1.0a2/#docs/pages/docs-pages.html Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] images against color backgrounds
Or, try the CSS3 box-shadow http://www.css3.info/preview/box-shadow/ Tim On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Stuart Foulstone stu...@bigeasyweb.co.uk wrote: Might get some ideas from CSS Drop Shadows @ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/cssdropshadows/ On Wed, December 8, 2010 9:01 pm, cat soul wrote: I hope I'm not bending/breaking the purpose of the list but wanted opinions on best practices for preparing images for use on web pages where there are color backgrounds, and the image must have some of that background color in them. Example: you want to place an image with a drop shadow, so in photoshop, you prepare your image with drop shadow, both of them in layers above the same background color as on the page. When you place such an image, flattened and jpg'd, it looks seamless. Trouble comes when you want to change the background color on the page (s) where you've already prepped the images with a given color..then you have to change that, too, and re-jpg, re-place, etc.. Some images don't look right unless their lifted off the page with a drop shadow, IMHO... cs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Css attributes
Hi
I'm trying to build some attribute selectors in CSS to check for missing
content. Ie.
IMG[alt=]
{
border-width: 3px;
border-color: #ff;
border-style: solid;
}
// will place a red border around any image with an empty ALT tag
IMG:not([alt])
{
border-width: 3px;
border-color: #ff;
border-style: dotted;
}
// will place a red border around any image with no ALT tag
The problem is the second one (not) only works with Firefox and Chrome. It
won't work in IE8
Does anyone have a suggestion?
Thanks
Tim
---
Tim Baillie | Quality Assurance Coordinator, ACUonline | Australian Catholic
University
Email tim.bail...@acu.edu.aumailto:tim.bail...@acu.edu.au | Phone +61 2 9739
2287 | Facsimile +61 2 9460 4380
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Office 4, Level 1, 23 Berry Street
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Blackboard Support Phone 1800 759 660 (Ask for ACU Blackboard support)
Email blackboard.supp...@acu.edu.aumailto:blackboard.supp...@acu.edu.au
If anyone can show me, and prove to me, that I am wrong in thought or deed, I
will gladly change. I seek the truth, which never yet hurt anybody. It is only
persistence in self-delusion and ignorance which does harm.
- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus
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Re: [WSG] list style with inline image issue
Tee,
Just a quick test I came up with this:
li {
padding-bottom: 5px;
clear: both;
list-style-type: disc;
padding-left: 75px;
margin-bottom: 50px;
position: relative;
}
li img {
position: absolute;
top: 0; left: 0;
border:1px solid red;
}
Instead of floating your image, position it in the LI. With list-style
outside or no list-style this worked in Chrome, Opera, Firefox and IE
8. I just quickly hacked the rest of the numbers to get it to work.
Tim W.
(By the way, you have class=outside on your last list item in the
HTML and I don't think you meant to)
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 7:43 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote:
In this page:
http://lotusseedsdesign.com/css-test/list-style.html
Only Firefox got it right. Have not checked in IE yet.
li {padding-bottom: 5px;clear: both;list-style-type: disc;margin-left: 25px;}
li img {float: left;margin-right:10px;margin-bottom: 10px;border:0}
li.inside{list-style-position: inside}
li.outside{list-style-position: outside}
Is there a workaround?
tee
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[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
It would be difficult to tell without seeing the code/live version. Regards, Tim Sent from my iPhone On 15/09/2010, at 5:26 AM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Lyn Smith l...@westernwebdesign.com.au Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 17:18:46 +0800 Subject: Fonts in MS Publisher compared to online I have a client who is very precise in what he wants. He sent me a draft in Publisher which I transformed into a website. The font for the header text (site title) is Times New Roman. The problem is that it looks completely different online to what it does in Publisher. Publisher renders it very narrow. Online it looks chunkier even though it is just normal weight, not bold. It is 2.5ems - I tried reducing the size but it did not reduce the chunkiness. According to Publisher, the style is Normal, 10pt, Main(Black), Kerning 14pt,Left, Line Spacing 1sp. As far as I can see, there is nothing wrong with the way it looks online at all - but it is not what he wants. He wants narrow. Is there a way of making the font narrower - short of making it an image - or is there an explanation I can give him of why it looks different online? Thanks. -- Lyn Smith www.westernwebdesign.com.au Affordable website design Perth WA ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] HTML5 with Chrome
Has anyone got this to work? I tried several times yesterday and it just stuck at 44%. Worked for me (chrome 5.0.375.127 on a mac) I found an edgy “Chrome Only”, HTML5 development here, http://www.chromeexperiments.com/, called The Wilderness Down and am wondering if this wasteful, at this point in time, to develop an HTML5 site like http://www.thewildernessdowntown.com/? I don't think its wasteful at all. Thanks for sharing. Tjd *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] attribute selectors and validation
In a recent links for light reading reference was made to a very
interesting article by Chris Coyier on attribute selectors such as 'rel'.
At the very basic level, the article exemplifies h1[rel=external]{color :
red;} used with the html:
h1 rel=externalAttribute Equals/h1
As others have said, this is an invalid use of rel. We could change
his example from:
h2 id=first-title class=magical rel=friendDavid Walsh/h2
To
h2 id=first-title class=magical friendDavid Walsh/h2
(I'd also get rid of first-title...)
That said, attribute selectors are very useful. Think about a form.
Instead of adding a class to all text input boxes, you can style them
with a simple:
input[type=text] {/* whatever styles */}
For links, how about:
a[href^=http] {/* links starting with http */}
a[rel] {/* any link with a rel attribute */}
-Tim
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Re: [WSG] attribute selectors and validation
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Thierry Koblentz thierry.koble...@gmail.com wrote: Regarding performance, using a class may be a better choice: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/writing_efficient_css Interesting article. I wonder if it is still true -- the last update was 2000 for that page. It also says Avoid the descendant selector which would be rather annoying. Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Difference between applied CSS and Computed CSS
Here I've a correct render under FF 3.6 (1) http://www.serenitude.at/margot/vmchk/spa-fontenay/soin-spa-fontenay/nos-massages/id-menu-306.html But here I noticed bigger text font under FF too (2) http://www.steit.net/dev/serenitude/vmchk/spa-fontenay/soin-spa-fontenay/nos-massages/id-menu-306.html I've tested both of those links in Chromium 5.0.335.0 (0) they show me the bigger font again. -- Rateb BEN MOUSSA Hi Rateb BEN MOUSSA When I look at the links provided (in FF 3.6) the pages are identical--no difference in font size for me. Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)
On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Marilyn Langfeld m...@langfeldesigns.comwrote: ... H1 is reserved for the title of the page. In a document, at least, there's only one title, while there may be many first level headings. ... So H1 is, IMHO, not the first level header, but the T1, or main title of the page. A logo is never, IMHO again, the title of the page. Let's look at what the specification says; A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it introduces. Heading information may be used by user agents, for example, to construct a table of contents for a document automatically. There are six levels of headings in HTML with H1http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#edef-H1 as the most important and H6http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#edef-H6 as the least. Visual browsers usually render more important headings in larger fonts than less important ones. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5 Nowhere does it say that H1s are for page titles or that there can be only 1 per page. In fact, the example shows two being used. ~ Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)
OK, straight from Google Webmaster Central: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIn5qJKU8VMfeature=channel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIn5qJKU8VMfeature=channel(video from March 2009) Tim On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Jason Grant ja...@flexewebs.com wrote: Tim, Well done for reading the spec - it's always a must. However, Google came after the HTML4.01 spec and what Google wants we give it - so the 'only one H1 per page' guideline comes from SEO best practices as well as general semantics and IA best practices. So the spec does not tell you to use one H1 per page, but the spec is not the be all and end all of guidelines. Thanks, Jason On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Tim White tjameswh...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Marilyn Langfeld m...@langfeldesigns.comwrote: ... H1 is reserved for the title of the page. In a document, at least, there's only one title, while there may be many first level headings. ... So H1 is, IMHO, not the first level header, but the T1, or main title of the page. A logo is never, IMHO again, the title of the page. Let's look at what the specification says; A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it introduces. Heading information may be used by user agents, for example, to construct a table of contents for a document automatically. There are six levels of headings in HTML with H1http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#edef-H1 as the most important and H6http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#edef-H6 as the least. Visual browsers usually render more important headings in larger fonts than less important ones. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5 Nowhere does it say that H1s are for page titles or that there can be only 1 per page. In fact, the example shows two being used. ~ Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.flexewebs.com/semantix www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] table inside a dd?
Thanks Ben and Christian for the replies, Ben thanks particularly for the links. Based on the accessibility bonuses of the methods you suggested I might opt out of the def list route and use headings. Thanks again. Tim -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis Sent: Monday, 17 August 2009 5:47 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] table inside a dd? On 17/08/2009 06:18, Tim MacKay wrote: I am marking up product nutritional information and am thinking of doing it like so: dl dt The Product /dt dd Paragraph blurb about the product /dd dd table .etcTabular data of the nutritional information/.etc /table /dd /dl Is nesting the table within the def list valid markup? Yes. I'd tend to suggest using headings (or headings inside a list) instead of a definition list, so that each product has an entry in the effective document outline: h2The Product/h2 pblurb/p table captionNutritional information/caption ... /table More practically, this allows non-mouse users of Opera (http://www.opera.com/browser/tutorials/nomouse/) or assistive technology (http://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Surfs-up/Navigating.htm) to skip effectively from one product to another, and surfaces the products in assistive technology heading lists. Some assistive technology does have some support for definition lists, but it's not especially pretty, which isn't surprising given the HTML spec suggests using the element for terms and descriptions, and also for dialogs: http://www.webaim.org/discussion/mail_message.php?id=11226 -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] table inside a dd?
Hi all, Is it semantic markup to include a table of items ( in this case a nutritional information table ) as the contents of a dd within a definition list? I am marking up product nutritional information and am thinking of doing it like so: dl dt The Product /dt dd Paragraph blurb about the product /dd dd table .etcTabular data of the nutritional information/.etc /table /dd /dl Is nesting the table within the def list valid markup? Thanks J Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] position relative or margin?
On 10/08/2009, at 10:35 PM, Naveen Bhaskar wrote: Hi, Which is the right method to position a logo in the header. with position :relative;top:10px; left:10px; or margin:10px 0 0 10px; pls rell me the pros and cons With 'position: relative' the element takes up the space in the document where it originally would have been and is then shifted 'relative' to that original position. Margins can be used to push an element around but the space it takes up in the document is where it is visually. This is particularly noticeable with negative margins. If you set a negative top margin on an element then the element that follows it in the document will also move up the page and the gap between them will be the same as what it would have been originally. If you use relative positioning and set 'top' to a negative value there will be a bigger gap between the positioned element and the following element. This is because the following element will set its position in relation to where the positioned element would have been before positioning. http://snadden.com/sandbox/relative.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Fieldset and Legend
On 3/07/2009, at 8:48 AM, CK wrote: Hi, After reading the specification, it appears that the elements fieldset and legend are used to denote groups of related form fields. However, I can across the following code at surf the channel which appears to use it as a decorative element. Does the following usage, contradict the CSS specification? fieldset and legend are form elements so yes, unless they are used to differentiate sections of a form they are being misused. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] INTERNET EXPLORER FORMATTING PROBLEMS
On 27/06/2009, at 12:07 AM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: HI. CAN ANYONE HELP ME WITH THE MESSAGE I POSTED ABOUT MY FORMATTING PROBLEMS WITH MY STYLE SHEET IN INTERNET EXPLORER 8. CHEERS MARVIN. PS: DO I ROLL BACK TO VERSION 7. Hi Marvin - I noticed that you've taken to writing in all caps. On the web this is considered 'shouting'. You might want to hit the caps lock key. It seems like are were insinuating that there may be a bug in various browsers because your stylesheet isn't showing up. That's a really improbably supposition. What you need to do is to create a completely basic test case. It seems as if you are having some problems with your directory structure so my advice would be to initially put a single html file and a single css file in the same directory. Reference the css from the html. In the HTML there should be just the basic structure you need to test your issue (tables?). And in your CSS file you may only need a basic font-family declaration on the body. I seem to remember that IE used to have problems with inheritance of font styles in tables so you may want to check by styling the td element with a font as well. The other thing is to always remember to validate your code. Do you know how to do this? This will ensure that what you have written is correct and may help to pick up any little typos that may have crept in. I'm afraid I don't know whether Internet Explorer 8 has any problems with Jaws. If I were you I would check with the Jaws people or on a Jaws forum. Cheers, Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] website fonts
On 22/06/2009, at 3:58 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: hi. just looked at my fonts. need the following fonts: arial, helvitica, sans-serif and verdana. do not have these fonts for windows vista. think that was the problem, why not saying the name. can you help? Hi Marvin - I'm going to assume that you are running Windows. If this is the case then it is *highly* unlikely that you don't have at least arial from that list. The other thing to bear in mind is that 'sans- serif' is not a font but is a style or family of fonts that share a particular look (they don't have 'serifs' which are little flicks at the end of letter forms). I haven't seen your actual code but if your HTML is correctly pointing to a CSS file and your CSS is using a valid font declaration then it should work. If it doesn't then there may be something up with your operating system thinking that fonts are in a different place to where they really are or maybe something up with your Jaws setup. When you specify fonts with CSS the usual pattern is to list your fonts in the order that you prefer. Each one is a fallback position if the prior one doesn't exist on the system. Normally the last one in the list is 'sans-serif' (or 'serif' etc.). This is essentially saying that if you don't have *any* of the listed fonts on the system then use whatever is the default 'sans-serif' font. I hope that helps. Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] free screen reader friendly web hosting
On 17/06/2009, at 11:46 PM, Ted Drake wrote: Are you looking for a host which has a screen-reader friendly admin interface? He is. Marvin is blind. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Fwd: [WSG] Image mapping standards question
I've been playing around with this idea recently. Image maps are quite flexible, not only can you title attributes etc but since they are part of the DOM you can attach javascript events to them. For a recent client which an online fashion store they had images of models wearing their garments and I used image maps to have tool tips appear with additional information about the garment and link to the product page. You can use the same javascript: void() trick (or capture events) to prevent anything happening when a user clicks on the link as necessary. I tried several approaches to getting this system to work right. My first try was using absolutely position DIV's this worked perfectly except in IE, second go was output a json structure containing all the information about the products etc and generate my image map client side, again worked perfectly except in IE. In the end the solution was to generate everything server side and tie it all together with javascript which also works and works in IE. The advantages of using image maps basically come down to being able to generate complex shapes, and them already being supported in browsers so why reinvent the wheel. -- *Tim Savage* Technology Lead [image: Joocey Labs Pty Ltd] 105 / 757 Bourke Street Docklands VIC 3008 p: +61 3 9016 9132 m: +61 415 845 226 e: tim.sav...@jooceylabs.com w: http://jooceylabs.com Melbourne | Brisbane | Sydney On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:01, David Hucklesby huckle...@gmail.com wrote: Brett Patterson wrote: I meant that rather than using image mapping for hyperlinks, you could use it to (sort of) point out a particular part of an image, as if you wanted to show someone who can see which person in a picture is you if they hover their mouse over that image map. And you can use it for someone who is blind, by showing them sections in a picture, as if there are rapids in one part of a picture and your canoe in another. I mean image maps being used to show particular sections in a picture, give it a title and alt attribute, and allow people to see what is what in the picture by holding their mouse over parts in a picture. Some picture sites, like photobucket and others allow users to tag certain parts of a picture to allow users to see who is who in a picture. I was wondering if it would be okay to do the same thing with using image maps and not using them as links. Do you mean something like this? http://css-tricks.com/image-map-with-prototype-tooltips/ Not sure about how this would benefit someone who can't see, though? Provided you have given ALT attributes to the AREA shapes, screen readers should be happy. FWIW image maps *are* links, and can be followed by search engines and text browsers, screen readers, etc.. Without scripting, though, they are hard to discover in graphical browsers-- and not everyone has scripting enabled. Design is about compromise, I believe. No one solution fits all situations. So the answer is a qualified yes - you can use an image map for this. Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] macpro and softwares..
Hi, I'd just like to add one to the FTP list - FireFTP firefox plugin. I was using Cyberduck on my Powerbook and found it a bit clumsy, FireFTP works right in firefox and works just as well as FileZilla. Best, Tim MacKay -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Russ Weakley Sent: Friday, 6 March 2009 6:04 AM To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] macpro and softwares.. Hi Naveen, Here are some resources to try... Testing Try Parallels (though there are others out there apparently equal or better?). This allows you to install multiple versions of Windows - which means you can test IE6/7/8 in different versions. http://www.parallels.com/ HTML/CSS Editors BBEdit - http://www.barebones.com/products/bbedit/ Coda - http://www.panic.com/coda/ CSS Edit - http://www.macrabbit.com/cssedit/ skEdit - http://www.skti.org/skedit/ TextMate - http://macromates.com/ FTP CyberDuck - http://cyberduck.ch/ Fetch - http://fetchsoftworks.com/ Transmit - http://www.panic.com/transmit/ Browsers Camino - http://caminobrowser.org/ Demeter - http://www.hurrikenux.com/Demeter/ Firefox- http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/ Flock - http://www.flock.com/ Icab - http://www.icab.de/dl.php Lynxlet - http://habilis.net/lynxlet/ Netscape - http://browser.netscape.com/ OmniWeb - http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omniweb/ Opera - http://www.opera.com/ Safari - http://www.apple.com/safari/ SeaMonkey - http://www.seamonkey-project.org/ Shiira - http://shiira.jp/en/ Sunrise - http://habilis.net/lynxlet/ Good luck! Russ I used to work in a windows system and now I am working in a macbook pro. how can I test my webpages for IE. Is there any IE installers available for mac? Also pls let me know what are the softwares available for a UI developer for Mac. Naveen Bhaskar *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Strange character encoding issue
Never had a problem with character encodings on
web pages, but since I reinstalled the OS on my
iMac I have had an issue.
Some of my characters, especially when using '
seem to mess up. This is the page, content and
layout are simple as it's for a uni assignment:
http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/overview.htmlhttp://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/overview.html
Check out the overview.html page, and notice the
issues. There is one noticeable in the overview
page â¤SOAPâ¤
Any ideas?
(for those interested I do plan to publish a
website regarding the Semantic Web shortly).
James,
Running your page through the W3 Validator
(validator.w3.org) gives the following response:
Error line 5 7 , C o l u m n 2 0 : n o n
S G M L c h a r a c t e r n u m b e r
1 4 5 .
t h e k e y w o r d
ë S O A P í i n a s e a r c h
e n g i n e w i l l r e t u r n
r e s u l t s
You have used an illegal character in your text.
HTML uses the standard UNICODE Consortium
(http://www.unicode.org/) character repertoire,
and it leaves undefined (among others) 65
character codes (0 to 31 inclusive and 127 to 159
inclusive) that are sometimes used for
typographical quote marks and similar in
proprietary character sets. The validator has
found one of these undefined characters in your
document. The character may appear on your
browser as a curly quote, or a trademark symbol,
or some other fancy glyph; on a different
computer, however, it will likely appear as a
completely different character, or nothing at all.
Your best bet is to replace the character with
the nearest equivalent ASCII character, or to use
an appropriate character entity
(http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html3/latin1.html).
For more information on Character Encoding on the
web, see Alan Flavell's excellent HTML Character
Set Issues/a reference
(http://web.archive.org/web/20060425191748/ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/charset/).
End of quote.
I always recommend people use UTF-8 because it's
a much larger character set than ISO-8859-1. I
also recommend use of XHTML Transitional rather
than HTML DTD's.
On a side note, I like your page, very
attractive. But I found the 1, 2, 3, ... buttons
at the top confusing because I kept trying to
click the number. Then I tried clicking the blue
text, both of which produced nothing. Finally my
cursor wandered over the black text and I
realized it was the link. Perhaps underlining
that link or making it dynamic like the button
would prevent the confusion I encountered. On the
other hand, perhaps I just need another cup of
coffee!
Peace,
-Tim
--
Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700
CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein
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Re: [WSG] .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict
I'm not a .NET developer, so this question really made no sense to me. I don't understand why it would matter if you're using .NET when trying to produce valid XHTML 1.0 Strict pages. So, anyways, I googled. This blog post was interesting: http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200511/no_xhtml_10_strict_in_aspnet_20/ So really it's a Visual Studio problem, not an ASP.NET problem, I guess? Interesting. On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Christian Snodgrass [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those all have errors (and are HTML, not XHTML). The errors are minor, but there are a number of them. Robin Gorry wrote: http://www.mucu4u.org.nz/Home_61.aspx http://www.oneeast.co.nz/ http://www.colorfastsigns.co.nz/Home_34.aspx Robin Gorry Senior Web Developer Xplore Net Solutions Xplore.net Website of the Week: Weleda (Australia) - www.weleda.com.au Weleda has a range of anthroposophic medicine - the simple yet powerful way to utilise nature's medicines to stimulate the body to 'heal itself'. Until recently their website did not accurately reflect their brand and they had no easy way to profile their product range to their Australian consumers. The new Weleda website is powered by the Xsite content manager, Xforms, Xshop, Xmembers and Xtend. Combined, this powerful toolset enables Weleda staff to add/edit/delete pages, text and imagery throughout their site, create online forms and surveys, provide an online product catalogue and issue logins to restricted access areas on their website. f: 00 64 (0)6 834 24 86 e : [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: www.xplore.net Take control of your website - ask me today about Xsite-tomorrows Content Management System CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Milner Sent: 08 October 2008 15:23 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict Hi, I was having a *chat* with some .NET developer colleagues and they challenged me to find a .NET site that achieves XHTML 1.0 strict compliance. Hoping to prove to them that it can be done. Does anybody know of some .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict (or even transitional)? Thanks, Anthony *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Christian Snodgrass Azure Ronin Web Design http://www.arwebdesign.net http://www.numberoverflow.com http://www.htmlblox.com Phone: 859.816.7955 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- tim gieseking / 314.413.3891 / timgieseking.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible menu lists - using the pipe character as separator?
Agree with the list of links, and use a CSS border for a separator. I have no evidence for you, but it sure seems to me that a pipe character would be the opposite of best practice. On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Svip [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about a list of links? If you want a separator, use some CSS styles. But for what you are asking, you are probably looking for an ul list. Regards, Svip 2008/9/27 Daisy Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello all I can't seem to find a definitive answer on this via Google - is it best practice to use something like the pipe character ( | ) to separate links in a menu so that screenreader software pauses between the list items? Any recommended articles dealing with accessible menus in general? Daisy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible menu lists - using the pipe character as separator?
Hello all I can't seem to find a definitive answer on this via Google - is it best practice to use something like the pipe character ( | ) to separate links in a menu so that screenreader software pauses between the list items? Any recommended articles dealing with accessible menus in general? Daisy Hi Daisy, As the others have said, best practice would be to use a UL for your list of links. If you want a visual separator, the border property in CSS will work best but there's no need to provide a separator for the sake of screen reading software. A very beneficial best practice that's recommended here at the University of Illinois is to proceed all navigational lists with a header tag, usually a h2 or h3. That way disabled users can go directly to the navigation via a list of headers. Also the header alerts them to the purpose of the list since, as David mentioned, screen reading software will announce the list but the only thing it says is, unordered list, 5 items. If a header disturbs your layout, then it's recommended that you hide it visually by absolute positioning off the top of the page using CSS. -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. James, I think you're right to disagree, particularly since HTML 4.01 does not specify case (and besides the fact that HTML 4.01 is suppose to be the precursor to XHTML which *does* specify case for code). Ironically I used to code entirely in uppercase with the rationale that it made the code easier to differentiate from content. I would base my argument on the specifications of XHTML which is the newer, more modern DTD. Why train ourselves to use outdated methods? My .02. -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Question about accessibility
At 6:37 AM -0400 8/27/08, Jason Pruim wrote: Good Morning everyone! I have a client that wants me to write his navigation mostly as a picture and then use image maps to get to the actual links. I am wondering, how would I go about convincing my client that this isn't the best way to do it? I personally think that some nice text links, styled properly with CSS would look just as good if not better then image maps. Oh, and to put it into context, it's a picture rating site so I don't know that Blind users are going to be too much of a concern for him since they can't see what the main part of the site is for. Just to clarify, strictly speaking in terms of accessibility, if redundant text links are provided elsewhere on the page, image maps are not a hindrance to blind users because they have an alternate method of navigating. But of course the many excellent suggestions regarding a more efficient way of coding the site are definitely the way to go. Besides, images maps are a royal pain to maintain. -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Multiple Firefox on Mac
On 25/07/2008, at 2:33 AM, Paul Collins wrote: Does anyone have a link to a decent reference on running Firefox 2 3 simultaneously on Mac? I can't seem to find a decent one out there. Multifirefox works for me. http://www.dangerouslyawesome.com/category/multifirefox/ It allows you to choose a version of firefox as well as a profile so that you can keep them separate if you need different extensions or different versions of extensions. Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] transitional vs. strict
@Ben Buchanan: Are the points you raised true or were you mentioning them as things to feed bottom-line oriented people? The point I'm most interested in is this one: If they're an SEO type, mention that valid sites tend to index more consistently in search engines (validation doesn't guarantee high ranking, but it is still a major part of any serious, ethical SEO) Is that proven to be true? Genuinely curious. Cheers, Tim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Buchanan Sent: Wednesday, 30 April 2008 9:06 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] transitional vs. strict Pages that validate as strict are superior to transitional because ___. It is important to serve pages that validate as strict because ___. ...validation is a quality metric, and we want a quality web presence. Given that you're dealing with someone that has no interest in standards, I wouldn't attempt to convince them that they are inherently good. From your description, they don't care and they're unlikely to start caring! :) If they're a bottom-line type, mention that you will be able to maintain the site more efficiently (ie. less cost). If they're an SEO type, mention that valid sites tend to index more consistently in search engines (validation doesn't guarantee high ranking, but it is still a major part of any serious, ethical SEO). Your question about strict vs. transitional also begs the questions how close to strict are they?. If they could almost validate as strict already, then cool - go for strict. If they are miles off because hundreds of users would need to be trained to produce strict, I'd live with transitional and work on a strategy that doesn't require training hundreds of users to be standardistas. cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] :: Footer not resting at bottom of page ::
Hi Amrinder,
I would recommend this solution; it was given to me from a member of this
list a few months ago and worked great.
http://dusan.fora.si/blog/how-to-move-that-footer-to-the-bottom
Best Regards,
Tim
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ?? ?
Sent: Tuesday, 22 April 2008 4:00 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] :: Footer not resting at bottom of page ::
#wrapper {
min-height:100%;
} is not enough
+
* html #wrapper {
height:100%;
}
html, body{
height:100%;
}
#footer {
margin-top:-50px;/* margintop = -(this height)*/
}
2008/4/22, Kepler Gelotte [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I have problem with the footer of my website: www.awayback.com it is not
staying at bottom of the page. Things are fine in case of low
resolution i.e. 1024x768 but in high resolution screens (1200x1024)
footer is hanging mid way and not at bottom of the page.
Hi Amrider,
I would suggest adding another div id=wrapper around div id=masthead
... div id=footer with a min-height of 100%:
div#wrapper {
min-height: 100%;
}
This should keep the footer at the bottom of the page on short pages.
Best regards,
Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904
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Re: [WSG] Shorthand rule for border?
On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Cole Kuryakin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is something that I've been wondering about for a long time – a
shorthand rule for borders.
David's link is a good starting spot -- but I'll move you up a couple
of paragraphs:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/box.html#border-properties
There are something like 20 different border rules, plus value shorthands.
For you example:
.someClass
{
border-top: 1px solid #CCC;
border-left: 1px solid #CCC;
border-bottom: 2px solid #666;
border-right: 2px solid #666;
}
...you could do something like
border: 1px solid;
border-width: 1px 2px 2px 1px;
border-color: #ccc #666 #666 #ccc;
There are other options as well (like Chris's).
Tim
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RE: [WSG] Dreamweaver8
Hi, I would recommend Aptana Studio as well for hand coding. I just downloaded it and so far its great. Although one thing I miss about dreamweaver is that you can do a 'search all' and get a list of all instances of the thing you are searching for rather than cycling through a 'find...find...find...' list. So far it's the only program I've used that does that and I really notice not having it. HTH, Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nancy Gill Sent: Monday, 7 April 2008 6:20 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver8 I learnt some DW last year with a CS3 trial but its a bit heavy like I mentioned. I should find a DW8 tomorrow in a mag. The biggest reason to upgrade would be Spry. Other than that .. there wasn't a lot in the CS3 version other than some CSS stuff and a few improvements here and there. Ah I was right about Drew is'nt he from 'All in the Head' too? Funny name for a site lolol That's Drew. ;) He did have some unique names .. he doesn't appear to do a lot with Dreamweaver any longer. Nancy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Character Encoding Mismatch
At 1:16 PM -0700 4/4/08, Kristine Cummins wrote: Can someone tell me how to fix this W3C warning - I'm new to understanding this part. http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beverlywilson.com%2Fhttp://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beverlywilson.com%2F Thanks! In the header of your HTML should be a line like this - meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=utf-8 /. Your server is sending an HTTP header that tells browsers to use the ISO-8859-1 character set, hence the mismatch. You can fix it by changing the line in your HTML to charset=iso-8859-1. However I always recommend instead using utf-8 because it's broader. ISO-8859-1 is actually a subset of utf-8. You'll have to talk to your server admin to change the HTTP header I believe. -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] nest heading properly
My question isn't about how to nest headings properly E823 - 1 instance(s): Heading elements must be ordered properly. For example, in HTML H2 elements should follow H1 elements, H3 elements should follow H2 elements, etc. Developers should not skip levels (e.g., H1 directly to H3). Do not use headings to create font effects. See http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#document-headers (displayed in new window). I am curious how much benefit it goes to accessibility. What ill effect it has on assistive user agents if headings are not nested properly. Semantically, I fully understand the need for proper order of heading elements, but in real world practice, I have yet noticing any site that follow this to the letter, and it's more than a challenge for a complicated columned layout that designer tends to use h3 for every bold text title. Hi Tee, At the University of Illinois, we use a tool called the Functional Accessibility Evaluator (FAE - http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu) that checks for proper header nesting. My understanding is that misuse or improperly nested headings will be confusing to screen reader users when they may be lead to thinking they missed a section head or something. I agree this issue can become a real challenge in terms of source order. -Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Validating Flash
Hi List, My question is about embedding Flash on html pages (just certain elements - not talking about full flash sites). I always get errors from HTML Tidy and the validator about the object and embed tags, which wrecks my validated markup. What is the standards-compliant way to embed Flash elements so that my site validates and stops throwing errors? Thanks, Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?
I agree with the reasoning but in practice I think its actually better to
use b and i (maybe not so much u) - sometimes you just want something
bold and its much less markup to wrap b and i instead of span
class=bold [which in itself creates the conumdrum of separating markup
from presentation: what do you call this class??]some text/span then
.bold { font-weight: bold; etc; etc; } I hope they don't deprecate it
completely, it is useful when you don't want something to be strong for
screen readers, just bold text.
My 2 cents.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mahendran Venkatesan
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2008 4:19 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?
The presentational elements such as b, i, s and u are deprecated as
because it can be achieved by CSS. For example, u can be achieved by
text-decoration: underline;.
I think, em and strong have been left for screen readers to understand
the emphasize part.
Thanks!
Venkatesan M
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Kepler Gelotte
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
I am just curious if anyone can explain why the u tag has been deprecated
while b and i are still allowed.
Thanks in advance.
Best regards,
Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904
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RE: [WSG] background images in HTML emails..
Hi Naveen, Unfortunately, HTML emails offer very little support for background images. Outlook 2007 doesn’t render them at all, I think some of the major webmail clients do, but gmail and Windows Live mail do not. It is very frustrating but the more you do it and realize what is possible you know where you can be creative, etc. All text has to be on flat background colours (background colours are fine). Think in terms of tables, and think HTML 1.0, font face tags and all. It goes against everything we talk about on this list, but its just the way it is. Visit this link: http://www.campaignmonitor.com/blog/archives/2006/03/a_guide_to_css_1.html Ive printed it out and keep a copy by my desk. If it’s not too late change the design, if all else fails then take the hit and make it one (or a few) huge images (text and all). It’s dirty, but you’ll get it out the door and you’ll know for next time. Cheers, Tim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jermayn Parker Sent: Thursday, 20 March 2008 5:25 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] background images in HTML emails.. im no expert in html emails but of the ones i do get how many actually use background images? I do not think html emails actually should use background images. Naveen Bhaskar [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20/03/2008 3:11:48 pm Structure is fine... but I am worried about the background images since the text is localized I cant use an image with text . I have to use background image and text about that... any solution? regards navii On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in regards to html emails.. use tables for structure. Naveen Bhaskar [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20/03/2008 2:53:11 pm Hi... anybody can tell me.. how to use background images in html emails. I have a div with background image and text above that... the background image is not displaying :-( help help -- navii *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au http://www.icwa.wa.gov.au/ Phone: +61 08 9264 . *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- navii - thanks and regards Naveen Bhaskar Menon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email
RE: [WSG] multiple css style sheets
I think its also improper markup to have more than one stylesheet link so
@import might be a way to keep the code modular and still only have one
style sheet link.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kane Tapping
Sent: Thursday, 28 February 2008 4:59 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] multiple css style sheets
Hi ,
I believe @import was originally used by designers to create styles Netscape
Navigator 4 would not implement incorrectly.
Some other reasons why you might use this rather then multiple link rel
declarations, include:
1. You can declare the @import within a CSS file style or style=
(you can also choose where in the CSS document to @import, allowing greater
control of the cascade's.)
2. link rel can only be declared in the head of a document (some
systems do not give access to this area, or only allow a set link to their
stylesheet.)
Kind Regards,
Kane Tapping
Web Standards Developer
Web and Content Management Services
Griffith University. 4111. Australia.
mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630
Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28/02/2008 01:46 PM
Please respond to
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
To
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
cc
Subject
Re: [WSG] multiple css style sheets
Is there a difference or specific reason to use the @import
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Kane Tapping wrote:
Hi ,
How do browsers determine the winner in a conflict... well, AFAIK,
they take the first style that is most relevant to the element.
That would be the LAST style that is most relevant to the element.
(unless !important is used to override the cascade.)
It also worth noting that multiple stylesheets are also commonly
referenced within CSS using @import.
The main benefit of using multiple stylesheets is for modular code.
Kind Regards,
Kane Tapping
Web Standards Developer
Web and Content Management Services
Griffith University. 4111. Australia._
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone: +61 (0)7 3735 7630
*Steven Workman [EMAIL PROTECTED]*
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28/02/2008 03:36 AM
Please respond to
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
To
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
cc
Subject
Re: [WSG] multiple css style sheets
Michael,
Multiple style sheets are quite common in large sites. Splitting your
stylesheets into a basics, main and special cases is good for
keeping your code separate, also allowing multiple developers to work
on different areas of a site's styles without interrupting each other.
It's also becoming more common that any off the shelf javascript
techniques come with their own stylesheets i.e. Cody Lindley's Thickbox.
How do browsers determine the winner in a conflict... well, AFAIK,
they take the first style that is most relevant to the element.
Say you had ullispan class=bobSome text/span/li/ul
If your first stylesheet said:
ul li { color:red;
}
and the second one said
.bob { color: blue;
}
It would render as *blue*.
However, if the first one said
ul li .bob { color:red;
}
and the second one remained the same
.bob { color: blue;
}
It would render as *red
*
Steve Workman
PA Consulting Group_
__www.paconsulting.com_ http://www.paconsulting.com/_
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]_
__www.steel-software.com_ http://www.steel-software.com/
On 27/02/2008, *Michael Horowitz*
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just inherited a site and saw pages with multiple style sheets. Is
there a reason for that and how does the browser determine what to use
if there is a conflict
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant_
__http://yourcomputerconsultant.com_ http://yourcomputerconsultant.com/
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] Site review
I'm almost done with a site redesign, and the time is right to ask for your opinions: http://beta.www.aclib.ushttp://beta.www.aclib.us for comparison, the current site is: http://www.aclib.ushttp://www.aclib.us I'm aiming for HTML 4.01 Strict compliance, and am periodically running the W3C Validator, so no need to notify me of validation errors. Just curious why you chose HTML instead of XHTML. Personally I like XHTML 1.0 Transitional. Of course accessibility is important, and this is where your insights and criticisms can be especially helpful. Using the Functional Accessibility Evaluator (http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu), there are minor issues: 1. The best practice recommendation is that your H1 tag match you page title. 2. Your form control for the Search should have a label element associated with them. 3. Pretty good use of header mark up. In conjunction with this, it is generally recommended your Primary Navigation should be an unordered list rather than a definition list and should be preceded by a header tag. That way disabled users can navigate to the list by headers and therefore Skip nav links are not necessary. 4. The alt tag for the WebFeat jpg should have some content. 5. Use of the i tag (on African-American History Online), should be replaced with em. Use of the i tag is considered deprecated because it is more presentation markup than semantic. 6. Your page should declare a language type. This goes in the HTML element. Everything else looks good with the one caveat that the 36px for catSearchLabel is overkill. Besides the point that font-sizes should always be in ems or %.) Do you really want it to be that predominant? It also quickly overwhelms the page when the user has to bump up the other font sizes. Also if you do want it predominant, I suggest making Search a header tag rather than a styled paragraph. That way it maintains its importance when CSS is removed. One free tidbit - try the Firefox Accessibility Extension (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1891) This is a great toolbar for testing your page to see how accessible it is. Best regards, -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PNG in IE6
Why not just use http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/ as the plugin to display your
PNG? That way, if people are using IE6 with Javascript enabled, you can add
png functionality, advanced CSS support, etc. I know Eric Meyer personally
endorses this method (well at least he did at An Event Apart) and I've used
it before with much success.
Tim
AIM: TymArtist
http://www.timpalac.com
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:07 AM, Amrinder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hi
I looked for the working of .png image in internet explorer and found two
articles.
http://webfx.eae.net/dhtml/pngbehavior/pngbehavior.html
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/pngopacity
I tried using *'filter' *according to both these articles but can't got a
way.
Following is the HTML code:
div id=mlogo
div id=extradiv1/div !-- Empty div to display logo--
img src=images/logo_header.gif height=54 width=379 alt=A way
back - logo/
div id=extradiv2/div
/div
The css code for #extradiv1 is:
#extradiv1 {
background-image: url(../images/logo.gif);
background-attachment: scroll;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
background-position: center top;
position:relative;
height: 129px;
width: 120px;
filter:
progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.AlphaImageLoader(src='../image/logo.png',
sizingMethod='scale');
margin: 0 auto;
}
Please help.
Kind Regards,
Amrinder www.awayback.com
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RE: [WSG] PNG in IE6
I wholeheartedly second this suggestion. This solution works brilliantly. As KM wrote below: http://www.twinhelix.com/css/iepngfix/ I originally found it via this site which has a friendly introduction to the concept: http://bjorkoy.com/past/2007/4/8/the_easiest_way_to_png/ One problem you will encounter is that if a link is placed over something that uses this filter as a background image the link will be inactive. There is a solution here: http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/tmp/alphatransparency.html (start at 'Problem: Link's don't work'). Cheers, Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle Sent: Friday, 22 February 2008 2:17 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] PNG in IE6 If its not a repeating background this is the easiest way to get png support: http://www.twinhelix.com/css/iepngfix/ -best kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] * { display: inline; }
On Feb 19, 2008 5:35 AM, Nick Fitzsimons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not so very odd... If you hunt around through Firefox's files you'll find one named html.css which specifies the default styling of all HTML elements. It includes the following: Thank you Nick. I sorta kinda knew about the html.css file, just didn't think of it. Good to know what's in it. Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] * { display: inline; }
On Feb 17, 2008 6:00 PM, Katrina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So in the header of my document, I included
style type=text/css
* {
display: inline;
}
/style
OK, I just tried it and got the exact same effects. So, I tried
combinations and body * works (and I see Patrick just posted the same
thing).
My best guess is that the browsers are setting head as an inline
element, along with style, etc.. If you change inline to block you
get the expected behavior.
very odd indeed.
Tim
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RE: [WSG] use of p in li
Hi Taco, In the case of the example you provided I'd say definitely no need for the nested p tag. The li tags are enough to describe the content inside them - they are items in a list. I don't see how it is a duplicate style of the p tag either, in my experience it is good practice to style your lists differently than your paragraphs. Hope this helps, Best Regards, Tim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Taco Fleur Sent: Monday, 11 February 2008 1:52 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] use of p in li This email was sent before an update of the site and the old version did not contain a list on the front-page (just incase someone was wondering;-) It's now updated, and has the example list on the front-page. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Taco Fleur Sent: Monday, 11 February 2008 12:31 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] use of p in li Hello all, I've been wondering about this for a while, just hesitated to ask (as it could be a stupid question). I've always been using p within olli (example, see state list on www.web-designers-australia.com) However, I see many people use a list without p tags, and style the text within the list item by creating a duplicate style of the paragraph tag. Just wondering, what is the way to go? Thanks *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Windows on a Mac
Hi List, If this discussion is outside the scope of this group I apologize, I know it was touched on a couple of weeks ago. Please email me off list if you feel it's more appropriate. I've recently had my laptop stolen and am trying to get back on track as soon as possible, it was a Mac iBook from2005, and as I've gone a bit deeper into web development since I purchased it I was under the impression that when I upgrade I should change over to Windows. My current situation has forced me to consider upgrading sooner than expected, so I have a few questions about the Windows environment on the new Macs. Specifically, can I run things like Microsoft Visual Studio? Flash Develop? Can I download and run .exe files? Is the Windows environment on Macintosh a true Windows environment and is it just a matter of switching OS's like I would switch applications? Thanks in advance for any advice offered, I am going to dig up the previous threads on this topic from the last few weeks. Cheers, Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Ideas for Corporate Presentation on Web Standards and Semantic Web
At 12:23 AM +0530 1/18/08, varun krishnan wrote: Hi All, I work for a company where there are about 1000 employees and We are mainly into Web Development. Im taking a presentation on Web Standards and the Semantic Web next week and I want make sure that I put across some really valuable info. Im a web developer and give a lot of importance to web standards. can any one you help me with wat i can talk about ? Hi Varun, You may want to mention that web standards help insure cross platform compatibility, not just with other desktop computers but also PDA's, cell phones, screen reading software, etc. Good luck on your presentation. -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] semantic list with explanations
Hello all, Just looking for a little help. I'm creating a sort of 'point form' list that goes a bit like this: 1. Pursuit of customer satisfaction We promise to pursue customer satisfaction as our main point of customer focus.blah blah blah.. 2. Pursuit of customer loyalty We promise to pursue customer loyalty as our secondary point of customer focus.blah blah blah.. What is the best way to semantically mark this up? My first guess would be an ordered list but the definitions underneath don't really allow for it. A definition list doesn't seem very appropriate either because of the wordiness of the explanations; to me a true definition list would only be a few words. Any thoughts? Thanks, Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Site Check
At 2:30 PM -0800 12/20/07, CK wrote: http://working.bushidodeep.com/kevon/index.html Could use a once over for this site. any suggestions are welcome. CK Hi CK, A couple quick things: - No alt text on the holder.gif image. (line 28) - link rel=stylesheet href=c/core.css / needs a type attribute - i.e., type=text/css (line 5) - Add a lang attribute to the HTML opener - html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xml:lang=en (line 2) -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Best way to clear a float
This is an interesting discussion, I have always used div
class=cleardiv/div on the page and then put
.cleardiv {height: 1em; clear:both;} in the style sheet. Not sure if this is
the best way, its seemed to work well without testing it too rigorously.
I've definitely got some new ideas now to try out though.
Tim
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2007 9:04 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Best way to clear a float
On Behalf Of John Faulds
*Sometimes* I find this works:
#parent {overflow: auto;}
You need to combine that with a width for it to work in IE.
I think it is a hasLayout issue, so it is possible to make it work without
having to declare a width (using zoom:1 for example).
You might also
find in some situations that you need to use oveflow: hidden as auto will
create scrollbars.
I agree. The thing to watch for though is if there is a IE min-height hack
(_height) involved...
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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[WSG] html page footer problem
Hello all, I am having a problem making a site footer stick to the bottom of the browser window with no gap at the bottom throughout a site of varying content heights. It is a 3 column floated page with a header and footer. Because of the design, the footer colour and graphic needs to be at the absolute bottom of the browser window at all times. Does anyone know of a way through JavaScript, pure XHTML/CSS or otherwise to make the footer stick to the bottom of the window at all times? Thank You, Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] html page footer problem
Thanks Dusan, That is exactly what im looking for. I have put in your code and the footer is sticking to the bottom of the page, but when I scroll up it goes over the main 3 columns of content. I want it to stop at the bottom of the main page content. I see that in your example that is what you have so I am going to go back and read over your code. Will this work with floated elements in the page? Thanks again for your replies, Tim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dusan Smolnikar Sent: Monday, 12 November 2007 10:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] html page footer problem See if this entry solves your problem http://dusan.fora.si/blog/how-to-move-that-footer-to-the-bottom From your mail I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for, so correct me if you're asking for something else. regards Dusan On Nov11, 2007, at 11:51 PM, Tim MacKay wrote: I am having a problem making a site footer stick to the bottom of the browser window with no gap at the bottom throughout a site of varying content heights. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] html page footer problem
Its working fine in Firefox but in IE6 the footer still rolls over top of the content of the page. And when I add more content to the page the footer starts at the bottom of the window with the rest of the content carrying on underneath it. Its weird, its acting very buggy. I don't think its your code, I think its how im implementing it. Ive got an IE6 conditional style sheet so Im trying to modify it to fit but I could be missing something. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dusan Smolnikar Sent: Monday, 12 November 2007 5:39 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] html page footer problem You have to make sure that you clear all the floats and leave some extra space (at least as high as the footer) and the end of your normal content (that is, everything excluding the footer). This way the footer will only overflow empty space, rather than the content. On Nov12, 2007, at 1:12 AM, Tim MacKay wrote: Thanks Dusan, That is exactly what im looking for. I have put in your code and the footer is sticking to the bottom of the page, but when I scroll up it goes over the main 3 columns of content. I want it to stop at the bottom of the main page content. I see that in your example that is what you have so I am going to go back and read over your code. Will this work with floated elements in the page? Thanks again for your replies, Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Testing emails for Outlook 2007
Paul, You might also check out Campaign Monitor - they have a new service where, for 10 bucks, they'll show you where your email fails to pass spam filters and also gives you screenshots of what it looks like in all the various email programs including Outlook 2007. Enjoy! Tim http://www.timpalac.com/blog/ IM: TymArtist On Nov 6, 2007 11:18 AM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Just wondering if anyone has found a clever way of testing your HTML emails for Outlook 2007? I don't have Vista and can't see myself buying it just yet! I thought there may be some kind of online rendering engine setup by now, but couldn't find anything in a search. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] POSH article question
On 11/1/07, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are writing a book title, the you shouldn't use either, but rather something like a span class=book with your styling of choice. And don't forget, for something like a book there is always cite/cite (which italicizes by default). The overall idea is to add meaning to the text in the HTML and let CSS worry about presentation. If there is not an existing element to do what you need, that's when classes can come to the rescue. ~ Tim tjameswhite.com'http://www.tjameswhite.com;tjameswhite.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] POSH article question
On 2/11/07 (12:36) Tom said: Another question though... do you have an example of proper, semantic use of strong vs b? Is it just just a tag to allow you to style your own visual emphasis? How about strong vs. em - what's the semantic difference? Rick actually provides a great example in his response. I've marked up his sentence below: q The word (probably) does not require any semantic emphasis per se -- ie. you are not giving it any enhanced meaning -- and so you would not use the em tag but you strongDO/strong want to give it a visual-only enhancement to make it render in italics. /q I've added strong /strong around DO. You can see that he is emphasizing a point there, so the markup emshould/em reflect that. [Even more emphasis for you.] In other words, listen to the way you speak. You can hear when you add emphasis, or really strong emphasis, to what you are saying. In HTML, those word(s) would get wrapped in em or strong As for b and i, well, I don't use them. They have no semantics per se, just visual effect. If I need something bolded or italicized I 1) see what element it is already in 2) look to see if there is an appropriate HTML element I could add 3) If 1 and 2 fail, I'll use a span class= with a semantically rich class name. (Or at least I try to make it semantically meaningful : ) Hope that helps. ~ Tim tjameswhite.com'http://www.tjameswhite.com;tjameswhite.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] POSH article question
Well done! That was perfect. Thanks. You're welcome. Although for me personally, I'd prolly use b and i for bold and italic text, vs. a span with a class and related style. I don't see how the later is more semantic. Even if the design called for red text as opposed to bold face, I could attack the b tag to achieve the color, etc. through the style. And when styles are off, the visual effect is intact. If you just needed to style some text, and not add emphasis, then, yes, you could use b and i as you suggest. (And for the reason you suggest -- less mark up.) They haven't been deprecated so they are 'legal' to use. I will leave it at that. : ) ~ Tim tjameswhite.com'http://www.tjameswhite.com;tjameswhite.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability
At 7:44 PM -0700 10/27/07, Tee G. Peng wrote: I am having an issue and I can't seem to see the whole picture objectively. Thanks to your influences, it has become my second nature to have 'skip to content' in every site I do (sites I have control over the design and layout); when I do markup coding, clients often ignore the 'skip to content' and 'skip to nav' - I managed to convinced them a couple times with a compromise to hide it from browsers by using 'display:none', because, according to them, only screen users need 'skip to content'. I am doing a site that I have control on design and layout, client asked to remove the 'skip to content' when I showed him the first layout, I tried to talk him out by stating how important it is to have the 'skip to content' implemented. He didn't buy it, so I came out with this technique: teesworks.com/ (move your mouse to the top to see the result). Hi Tee, I appreciate your desire to provide navigational accessibility for disabled users however Skip to content is not the best way to do it. Most disabled users, particularly sight impaired, will use your header markup to navigate the page rather than skip links. Most often the audience who need the skip nav functionality will be using an accessible browser like Firefox which allows them to display a header list whereby they can easily surf through a properly structured page which makes use of header tags. You've done a fairly good job on the teesworks page using header tags so the skip to content link is not going to serve much purpose. Also keep in mind that display:none and visibility:hidden remove content from screen readers. A screen reader will not pick up elements styled like that so unless that's your purpose, don't use those kinds of rules in your CSS for markup you intend for a screen reader. Nice page btw. -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web Standards In Colleges and Universities
The way my school approached it was interesting. My major was in a combination of Interactivity, Video, and Animation under the label of Time Arts. It was definitely different than what I hear you describing here, so I think it depends on the university. For the interactive/web end of things, we had a Director class, Flash class, and Web development class. The Director class had nothing to do with the web, and the Flash class was never about making websites. In fact, we used to make small flash applications which could theoretically be used on websites, and it was easy to see how you could potentially make a website in Flash. I think our teacher was against it, though - interestingly enough, his portfolio site used to be all Flash - I just took a look and he redid it with XHTML/CSS (granted, frames too, but you can't expect miracles). The Web Design class was actually a really awesome basis, and more schools should have a Web course like this. The teacher was from the Graphic Design area of the school, and he taught a few classes to our major as well. He took us through the conceptual approach to developing for th web - our first site was based off architecture, the second off redesigning an existing site, and the third off an abstract concept. It gave us quite the realm to work with. While the layout was done using tables and some CSS for styling, it gave us a great foundation for moving forward and I was able to easily learn the remainder of CSS a short while after. I guess it depends on the major and what people are focusing on, too - for this class, not a lot of people would eventually become Web Developers (in fact, I'm one of the only few) so the lack of focus on code wasn't a big deal (we did code a lot in the Flash course). For those of us who wanted to expand there, it gave a great foundation just like all the other courses in that major. /End rant. Tim Palac http://www.timpalac.com AIM: TymArtist On 10/22/07, Christian Snodgrass [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am actually having a similar problem. I was able to skip the Web Development class, so I didn't have to sit through it, but I am sure it is similar to how yours is. We have a Javascript class and the HTML that is taught in there is hideous. Also, my teacher in my Multimedia class is wanting us to create a Flash-only website, which I've told him is not right. I'm actually planning on talking to them one-on-one to help them get up to today's standards. Also, I work for a group who's primary duty is to maintain the residential network, but also does things such as computer-related websites. I'm planning on putting together one for today's website standards as well as for accessibility and invite pretty much every computer and technology related teacher to it so I can help try and open some eyes. I think it is such a shame when the schools turn out sub-par web developers, who later become more roadblocks to acceptable standards usage. But, like others have already said, don't be confrontational, be informative. I am in my 5th semester so I know many of the teachers in quite well already, so I can talk to them without them getting defensive. You have to be helpful or else they'll just plug their ears and refuse to listen. Good luck with your school, Christian Snodgrass James Jeffery wrote: Good Morning! Here is my problem. Im at college this year, preparing for University (Hopefully Birmingham) to study Software Engineering. At college we have a class on a Thursday called Web Development and the guy thats teaching the class in an absolute joke, no seriously, he is. He is teaching students how to create web pages using Dreamweaver in Design view, and then telling students if they can do this, they are Web Designers. I was angry, i instantly replied and questioned his knowledge on HTML and asked the age old question: What are tables in HTML used for?, he replied To lay out web pages and for tabled data, i replied with wrong, he laughed and told me he knows what he is talking about. I seriously want to raise a huge issue at the college, but im not sure how to do it. This guy is on 22k+ a year, and cannot even teach people correctly, he may have been a pro back in the days when tables were acceptable to lay out web pages, but in todays world he is a fool. Its half term now, we have an assignment to complete using Dreamweaver, and he said i have to use tables, its not a problem, i will do as the assignment requests. I will walk the extra mile and create the same page without tables, with semantics, with accessibility in mind and without the bloated mark-up, and then write a essay comparing the both. What power do i have (if any) to try and get the college to understand they cannot use a cowboy to teach tomorrows computer experts. Should i use my essay and examples and take it to the head of the college? I really don't know how to go
Re: [WSG] CSS Help
Hi There,
You just need to put a rule in your style sheet to exempt images from
the hover style. This should work as a global rule:
#sidebar a img {border: none}
Hope this helps.
Tim
Olajide Olaolorun wrote:
Can someone please help me with this small problem i'm having I
seem to have a problem with the link hover style i set for the whole
sidebar with the images I am trying to take it out for images that
are links... like the image showing to the right in the sidebar... but
i have no success. Can someone please help me out.
http://www.rockondude.net/pre
If you see the thumbnail to the right... am trying to take out the
hover style for that.
Thanks a lot.
--
*Tim Mackay*
Web Developer
p: +612 8917 7900
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: www.deepend.com.au http://www.deepend.com.au
http://www.deepend.com.au/latest http://www.deepend.com.au/
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Re: [WSG] CSS Help
I think Chris is right. Set the a:hover to {border: none;}
Olajide Olaolorun wrote:
It doesnt work :(
I just tried it now... placed it in the default.css
On 10/23/07, Tim MacKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi There,
You just need to put a rule in your style sheet to exempt images from
the hover style. This should work as a global rule:
#sidebar a img {border: none}
Hope this helps.
Tim
Olajide Olaolorun wrote:
Can someone please help me with this small problem i'm having I
seem to have a problem with the link hover style i set for the whole
sidebar with the images I am trying to take it out for images that
are links... like the image showing to the right in the sidebar... but
i have no success. Can someone please help me out.
http://www.rockondude.net/pre
If you see the thumbnail to the right... am trying to take out the
hover style for that.
Thanks a lot.
--
*Tim Mackay*
Web Developer
p: +612 8917 7900
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: www.deepend.com.au http://www.deepend.com.au
http://www.deepend.com.au/latest http://www.deepend.com.au/
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--
*Tim Mackay*
Web Developer
p: +612 8917 7900
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: www.deepend.com.au http://www.deepend.com.au
http://www.deepend.com.au/latest http://www.deepend.com.au/
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Re: [WSG] Catch 22 list problem
Going back to the original post: Pick your poison: 1. Invalid code 2. Use a transitional DOCTYPE 3. Set value with DOM-script I'm surprised that no one has said #2; just fall back to a transitional doctype. You can still write your markup with standards in mind, use the deprecated attribute, *and* validate without any scripting etc. This is exactly what I did a couple of years ago when redesigning a site. I created the templates in XHTML 1.0 Strict, but due to a ton of legacy data concerns just changed the doctype to HTML 4.0 Trans and all was well. Of course, you may have production issues that prevent the Transitional doctype, in which case I'd go with the invalid. ~ Tim tjameswhite.com'http://www.tjameswhite.com;tjameswhite.com Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Problems validating with TIDY
I have a page I want to validate. W3C says it's valid XHTML Transitional but Tidy complains saying, line 96 column 1 - Warning: input ID __VIEWSTATE uses XML ID syntax. The page is http://www.provost.uiuc.eduwww.provost.uiuc.edu and because it has a XHTML DOCTYPE, I would think XML syntax should be just fine. I am advising on this page so I don't have access to the files to change anything but wanted to research the complaint before reporting it. Any ideas what TIDY's problem is saying. I thought preceding an ID with the double underscore might be the issue but would like a more technical explanation, particularly since W3C says it's valid. Thanks in advance. -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Usability Accessibility Over Design?
You've got an interesting point, Steve. Transitioning from non-accessible websites to accessible websites seems like it would require some sacrifice in look and feel. In fact, I was prone to thinking the same thing, but check out http://www.zeldman.com. You see that he's using images in the navigation, but when you disabled the styles these turn into text links. I haven't ever used this technique, but doesn't that achieve what you're talking about? Even if this whole text link with CSS images is too complex, it seems like the web is going away from graphical representations of text in general. What you lose in graphics, you gain back in SEO and accessibility - that's an easy way to pitch it to a client. Besides, CSS can do some stunning things with text. A good example is http://www.particletree.com - the only images on that page are with a specific purpose, and not to replace text. Also, I'd question you in saying that continuous movement, audio that loads automatically, and whizzy stuff is enhancing to the user experience. Honestly, I'm more prone to turn off a site with these features, especially the audio that plays automatically - when you reload the site, it reloads the audio, and that's just annoying :) Have you gotten feedback that this is positive, or is it just what the client wants? -Tim www.timpalac.com On 8/14/07, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to agree with you Joe but I currently have a battle with several design agencies who work for a multinational client of ours. Historically they have produced websites that are predominantly Flash-based or sliced and diced from PhotoShop. Our client wants to achieve WCAG AA and the agencies are saying it will affect the visuals, which I can't disagree with. Graphical representations of text are used throughout because virtually all the text is in fonts that browsers don't support and has visual effects that cannot be achieved using CSS (sIFR is not an option for this quantity of text). The colour contrast is subtle (i.e. low). There is continuous movement, audio that plays immediately on page loading and all kinds of whizzy stuff. The overall effect is fantastic for most users but it simply isn't possible to achieve the level of accessibility the client wants without making compromises. I so wish it was otherwise because this is a battle I don't want to have. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joseph Taylor Sent: 14 August 2007 15:33 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Usability Accessibility Over Design? There's no reason to have to sacrifice on either end of the scale. Every document should start as a plain, accessible HTML document. If the information on the document is well organized and logical, its already usable. At this point, progressive enhancements on all ends can be used to integrate higher level interaction. Your first level of enhancements come in the way of the visual design, color choices, basic styles. The second level is where CSS is taken a step further and used to perform image replacement, hide things, etc. The third level is where javascript manipulates objects in the document, or adds things in that are not part of the original HTML document, like flash movies, etc... You can keep adding in this directionmaking a page as rich and interactive as you want. Usability...thats not guaranteed anymore than a good visual design, but it is certainly a result of all things coming together with the same goal in mind. Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC http://sitesbyjoe.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] John Faulds wrote: Web Standards, Accessibility and Usability needs to be put right at the top of the list, way before design. I won't argue with that but all of those things are generally a harder sell to a client than the more superficial aspects of a project like the graphic design. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Please help! CSS/IE Link Color Problem
@Sutart: I believe that Stuart is using active as a class name, not a pseudoclass.This class is being added to the anchor tag when the page loads. Not the same as the pseudoclass which is invoked on click, but does not persist through the subsequent page load. @Cole: In my install of IE6, the active states are working fine, but it looks like you've attached the active class to the li now and removed the a on the active items. I prefer to add the active (I usually call it on or off to avoid confusion with the active pseudoclass) to the lis myself as well, since that allows me control over both the li and the a within. Tim Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, a:active is a pseudoclass, not a class, and the declaration should read: ul#navTopSimpleUL li a:active not a.active class name. Browsers are tolerant of mistakes and try to correct wrong coding in a meaningful way. However, different browsers may apply different corrections to the error producing different results. This is why you are getting different results in different browsers, rather than it being a browser fault. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using target=_blank
So what argument should I give to my clients not to use target=_blank ? If I say that won't validate your page, they won't care. So any non-technical argument that I can give to them? Ryan The best non-technical argument I can think of is that this approach breaks the back button. Jakob Nielson argues against doing this over and over again. Opening a new window, particularly if the look and feel are similar, can be very confusing to your site visitors. -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** College of Applied Health Sciences *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services Web Specialist *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Best practice embedding a Quicktime/Flash video
I use conditional code on my site - seems the best way to go if you want to follow standards. Personally I just never had the patience to dive into those A List Apart Flash Satay and other methods. The general issue is that IE and all other browsers render Flash differently. I've tested this in Firefox, Opera, Safari, and IE. Anyway, it's something like this: object classid=clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-44455354 width=400 height=300 param name=movie value=movie.swf / param name=wmode value=transparent / param name=quality value=high / !--[if !IE] -- object data=movie.swf width=400 height=300 type=application/x-shockwave-flash param name=quality value=high / param name=wmode value=transparent / /object !-- ![endif]-- /object On 6/27/07, David Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm looking for some advice on best practice methods of embedding a QT/Flash movie in a page in a standards compliant way, so any ideas would be very gratefully received! At the moment my page embeds a video using the standards compliant method for QT videos as described by Elizabeth Castro in her A List Apart article Bye Bye Embed: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/byebyeembed I then use some unobstrusive javascript to add a show/hide control and to hide the video on load. This means that non-Javascript-enabled browsers will simply get the video without the show / hide controls. This is all fine until you try it in a browser without Quicktime (we may opt for Flash in the end, but the principles I guess will be the same). Then, in IE you get the rather unhelpful Security warning / install software message (well at least that's what you get on the IE6 install running on my virtual PC). Obviously this is not so bad in Firefox where you get the Install missing plugins message. Using a detection script would probably by-pass these issues, but that would then not be in the spirit of progressive enhancement I'm going for. I'd be interested to know how others have approached this kind of issue. As usual I may be missing something blindingly obvious -- this is one of the areas in which my experience is a little limited! Many thanks, David -- David Little *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Web Publishing Guide [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Today, AGIMO released the Web Publishing Guide - http://webpublishing.agimo.gov.au/. The Web Publishing Guide brings together Australian (Commonwealth) Government resources for website management. It helps agencies to discern their legal and policy obligations, and to access guidance and better practice advice. The Guide consolidates and replaces the following AGIMO resources: * Guide to Minimum Website Standards * Online Information Service Obligations * Australian Government Design: Guidance for the Online Environment (Branding) * Guidance on Departmental and Ministerial Websites * Australian Government Web Guide. There are no additional mandatory requirements for agencies. We hope that the Guide makes it easier for you to manage your websites. If you have any comments please send them to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards AGIMO Online Services Team Finance Australian Business Number (ABN): 61 970 632 495 Finance Web Site: www.finance.gov.au IMPORTANT: This transmission is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify us immediately by telephone on 61-2-6215- and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. If responding to this email, please send to the appropriate person using the suffix .gov.au. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Safari now on Windows
Downloaded this even though the others at my office were scared to. Did some testing and seems to function very well, no crashing. Enjoy having the extra Apple feel on my PC :) Worth noting that Gmail ran about 5 times faster when loading emails than Firefox or IE, my guess is that the Ajax and Javascript support for this browser tops that of most others. Nice! Tim www.timpalac.com/blog/ AIM: TymArtist On 6/11/07, Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This will be interesting... Safari 3 Public Beta: http://www.apple.com/safari/ == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Recommended screen size
Anyone have a recommendation on what size screen to use as a baseline when designing for a new site? 800x600 or 1024x768 or something else? Thanks in advance. -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** College of Applied Health Sciences *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services Web Specialist *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Site Review (www.richardson.co.nz)
www.richardson.co.nz In Firefox 2/Opera on Windows the lightbox images show 'null' as the caption. All the best. This email with any attachments is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If it is not intended for you please reply immediately, destroy it and do not copy, disclose or use it in any way. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] semantic HTML for intro text
Stay away from Strong. Strong is presentational, same as B, and I. Presentation should be in HTML and content in HTML. use span class=important for text that needs to be emphasised. I would argue to the contrary. Strong has much more meaning than a span class. The word /tag itself implies strength of content rather than a default appearance in a bowser, cf with the address tag which indicates an address, even though browser default appearance is italicised. I would also add that I believe assistive technologies such as screen readers interpret strong where as they would ignore a span. Therefore use of the HTML element strong has semantic meaning which should not be dismissed. -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** College of Applied Health Sciences *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services Web Specialist *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Australian University webpage reviews and WANAU membership
University and Griffith University are not so fragile they they are threatened by a little post graduate diploma graduate pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes, they accept research on its merits and criticise the research without such distractions as wanting to attack the messenger. Swinburne University who I have worked for, for four years have lost the idea of scientific merit, some staff seem to have obtained degrees out of a Cornflakes packet, you should look at the VicRoads and Victoria Police funded research on 40 stoned subjects which Victoria police misused to institute a world's first flawed saliva test for the criminal evaluation of drivers, absolutely the lowest standards and completely unscientific, if they can get funding they might say anything their client wants. This is gross academic corruption and I will not stand by and watch the erosion of civil liberties by Victoria police quoting dodgy brothers research from Swinburne as I will not stand by and be intimidated by any academics who cannot see the wood for the trees. http://www.hereticpress.com/Editorial.html#TrafficScum Your reply totally fails to value the role of replication in scientific research and I don't care how many degrees any WANAU members have, my research is valid or it is flawed, criticise my research as Griffith University have, find flaws in it, but just ignoring it because WANAU did not ask or commission is it ridiculous. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustUni.html#griffithuni I will continue promoting and aiming for higher academic standards than I see from many Australian institutions. The rest of the world is watching Australia, pull your socks up. I have had enough of this unscientific defence of ignorance. Tim On 24/05/2007, at 5:26 PM, Katrina wrote: Tim wrote: For some reason my membership of WANAU has been lost, ignored or denied by the WANAU moderator. I get the impression that WANAU is a university thing, and perhaps membership is restricted to university people (staff and students, etc). You should take that up with WANAU themselves. My emails to Dey Alexander to comment on this research have received no reply. I have spent a few hundred hours of my time unfunded to produce a webpage that is highly relevant to WANAU's objectives of promoting accessibility in Australian University websites. I understand that you undertook this research at your behest rather than WANAU's. If they choose to ignore it, then that is their decision. I also offer coding suggestions, but this research has so far been ignored or lost on WANAU, but it already has the attention of many concerned IT academics across Australia, a few with negative comments like the Australian Catholic University, but also many positive comments. I think WANAU's aim is to attempt change through encouragement rather than criticism. Catching more flies with honey. I think they are looking to support people, rather than put down their efforts. Investigate ways to positively effect web accessibility across the university sector. http://www.wanau.org/about/ Note the 'positively'. It concludes that 64% of Australian University sites pass Priority One accessibility tests which is contrary to Dey Alexanders 2003 report that 98% of sites failed accessibility tests. Your result does not necessarily negate Dey Alexander's result, which is four years old. A lot can happen in four years. Where are WANAU's real interests? Selling training courses based on old and inaccurate claims that 98% of Australian University sites are inaccessible without considering new research in not academic excellence, it may even breach the Trade Practices Act for misleading claims. I can see no example of how they are doing that. The reference to the paper is on his own site, not WANAU's. It is used as an example of the research that they do, along with other papers, which I find appropriate. It's good that you want to contribute. My advice is find out how you can contribute in a way that leads to acceptance of your work. For example, if you have tertiary qualifications, aim for post-grad work. Kat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] dl v table for form layout
Only have safe sex with wombats they are promiscious and many have a sexual transmitted disease clymidia. You guys are sick today eating roots and leaves, off topic. Tim On 23/05/2007, at 8:37 AM, John Faulds wrote: gay wombat sex is rightly prohibited in Australia Mabye Australia doesn't come across as being that progressive in other parts of the world, but the only state where gay wombat sex would be prohibited is Tasmania. ;) -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Photo gallery markup semantics
It amazes me that they would rather spend money on solicitors than web design. I am tracking this sites as well, only 500 html validation errors today. The web design team are Bullseye Design which is a trademarked Target Brand. Maybe they have in-house solicitors sitting around with nothing to do? http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/USAweb.html#targetstore It is a fantastic site to ridicule, I want to see the solicitors defend it. Target stated that: We believe our Web site complies with all applicable laws and are committed to vigorously defending this case. We will continue to implement technology that increases the usability of our Web site for all our guests, including those with disabilities Tim On 23/05/2007, at 2:16 PM, Steve Green wrote: when the oh-so-clever designer has abused CSS to make the seventh item appear in third place We had a classic case of this yesterday while doing one of our JAWS demos for a group of developers (www.accessibility.co.uk/free_jaws_demo.htm in case anyone is interested in coming to the next one). The website was www.target.com and among the many horrors were a group of image maps containing maybe a hundred links or more. None of us was able to work out which link had focus at any time because it jumped around all over the page, and often the 'alt' attributes were not the same as the corresponding graphical representation of text. It's a fantastic site for the demo because it includes every example of don't ever do it this way. My guess is they PhotoShopped the design then turned the whole thing into an image map with a random tab sequence and no 'alt' attributes for half the links. And they wonder why they're getting sued! Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Fitzsimons Sent: 23 May 2007 03:04 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Photo gallery markup semantics On 23 May 2007, at 02:15:30, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Nick Fitzsimons wrote: Although it might be important from an accessibility perspective that an unsighted user be able to say the third one on that page without having to count the preceding list items - hmm, now that's something to think about.. Not quite sure how they'd say the third one without actually having counted, though...am I missing something? Or do you mean in situations where a sighted user and a blind user discuss the page? If that's the concern, then *any* CSS that visually changes position of things on screen would be a problem (just thinking about sighted users saying the X that comes before Y not realising that X was absolutely positioned above Y, for instance)...which I'd say is an edge case anyway. I'm assuming here that a screen reader imparts the additional information implied by the distinction between ol and ul, such as specifying Three rather than Bullet. I haven't checked, but I believe that is the case from previous tests. From that perspective, I was thinking in terms of the situation where a blind user, having heard the description of something they like, might find it easier to phone the company to place an order. If the screen reader said something like List item: Three: blue sweater instead of List item: Bullet: blue sweater, then rather than the user having to count and remember that the blue one was the third item description they heard on that page, they would be able to tell the person taking the order that the thing they want is the third one on the sweaters page. Sometimes people's interaction with web sites can lead to interaction with the rest of reality :-) It seems to me possible that the use of an ordered, as opposed to an unordered, list might offer an additional affordance to a blind user. Of course, that's just speculation on my part - but it could be something worth checking out in user testing. The next problem then arises when the oh-so-clever designer has abused CSS to make the seventh item appear in third place. I seem to recall a blind friend of mine bitching and whining (with excellent reason) about some similar usability nightmare in the past... something to do with being asked if he meant the one on the right or the left of the third row. It was impossible for him to determine what came from which row, or on what side it appeared, because the person on the phone saw the page with some too-clever-by-half CSS applied, and he just had SuperNova. FWIW, that's a good reason not to hide the numbers on an ordered list just to make things look nice. (And if anybody was wondering, blind people do have preferences in the colours they wear.) Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED
[WSG] Australian University webpage reviews and WANAU membership
For some reason my membership of WANAU has been lost, ignored or denied by the WANAU moderator. My emails to Dey Alexander to comment on this research have received no reply. I have spent a few hundred hours of my time unfunded to produce a webpage that is highly relevant to WANAU's objectives of promoting accessibility in Australian University websites. I also offer coding suggestions, but this research has so far been ignored or lost on WANAU, but it already has the attention of many concerned IT academics across Australia, a few with negative comments like the Australian Catholic University, but also many positive comments. It concludes that 64% of Australian University sites pass Priority One accessibility tests which is contrary to Dey Alexanders 2003 report that 98% of sites failed accessibility tests. Where are WANAU's real interests? Selling training courses based on old and inaccurate claims that 98% of Australian University sites are inaccessible without considering new research in not academic excellence, it may even breach the Trade Practices Act for misleading claims. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustUni.html#skipnav Tim Anderson The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: contrast analyser 2.0 released
Thanks Stuart, Re the policing, there is none in Australia, the NFB in the USA and the RNIB in the UK seem to be street ahead of Australia. In Australia, I am vilified and shunned for web reviews pointing out which Australian sites are inaccessible, even though I try and provide code fixes for them they either ignore the research or bluntly state do not contact us again. They do not want to know about it and would rather vilify me than address any issues. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustUni.html#catholic Others like Vision Australia and WANAU ignore me completely and continue selling training courses, quoting a figure that 98% of Australian University sites are inaccessible which is not true. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustUni.html#research If they stick their head in the sand they should get their arse kicked, but they try and shoot the messenger instead while selling training courses which achieve very little. If I say anything on this group of a policing nature, I am told off for being aggressive and the moderator received complaints about my attitude from teachers who have a financial interest in selling commercial training courses. The moderator then tells me off for upsetting some members, poor things. Where is the support for compliance with the Australian 1992 Disability Discrimination Act? The Maguire v Sydney Olympics case is a strong precedent that legal action would succeed, but the peak bodies are too busy selling training courses to have any legal advocacy function. High profile prosecutions in Australia not likely, the SEO argument does not gain much currency either. I have been constructing student exercise to test page rank of validated v invalid code who cares, she'll be right mate is the lazy complacent Australian attitude and if you make another complaint about this email, I will resign from this group. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustUni.html#student2 Tim Anderson and web reviews I have done on On 19/05/2007, at 9:47 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, Yes, a lot of disabled use the Internet. But an awful lot more don't because the vast majority of sites are ill conceived, non-standards sites and therefore inaccessible to them. Unfortunately, this is not just a legacy issue because, as you say, despite the moral imperative, the business advantages, and the accessibiltiy laws, many designers still turn out inaccessible Websites. This is then compounded by the trend towards (non-accessibity aware) CMS and untutored users updating sites (even originally accessible ones). For the sake of all the legacy websites out there, browsers will continue to compensate for bad coding and this also contributes to the couldn't care less, who's gonna police it anyway? attitude of some. Perhaps after a few more high profile prosecutions of Website owners, those commissioning sites will pay proper attention to their obligations (and the greater marketing opportunities of the disabled and the increasingly mobile-access market). Then, we should not have the same difficulty of convincing them of the need for valid standards-based, accessible Websites. And, we should be ahead of the game. Until then we must endeavour to persevere. Stuart PS Found an interesting site for seeing how sites might look on a mobile @ dotmobi: http://emulator.mtld.mobi/emulator.php http://emulator.mtld.mobi/emulator.php? emulator=webaddress=webstandardsgroup.org%2Femulator=nokiaN70Submit= Submit On Fri, May 18, 2007 3:47 pm, Jamie Collins wrote: Ive only recently started to understand that alot of disabled people use the internet, and its only fair that they should get the same usability as everyone else. All Web Developers should keep this in mind, alot of people dont. Thanks for that -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Semantics and small
What about small/small sub/sub Subscript lower than the text sup/sup Superscript higher than the text, maybe just a number linked to a date in the page footer Or in a stylesheet make a class of smaller text. Tim On 16/05/2007, at 9:04 PM, Blake Haswell wrote: Hey list, We have two elements, EM and STRONG, to emphasise text as being more important than the text around it, but we don't seem to have any elements to show that text is less important than the surrounding text. What is the best way to show something is less important than the surrounding information (e.g. the date of a post or article, supplementary information at the bottom of a post or article)? It seems to me the only tag that represents anything remotely close to that is the small tag, however that is a purely presentational tag according to the W3C specifications as it only specifies font information. While style sheets and, for example the SPAN element, are definitely a better way of specifying the font information that the SMALL element would provide, they don't provide any semantic information to indicate that the text is less important. What do you guys think about showing that something is less important relative to the surrounding content? Regards, Blake *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] wa state guidlines question
Why not let the user decide if they want a new window or not? It is generally a bad idea for accessibility. National Australian standards also cover WA, HREOC standards which follow WCAG Guidelines. http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/#wc-priority-1 Guideline 10. Use interim solutions recommends not opening new windows. I think it also might limit your doctype to transitoional, in Quirks mode it may be less reliable in rendering some pages in some browsers. http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_16_not_opening_new_windows.html They should care about Australian laws requiring compliance with at minimum WCAG 1.0 Checklists. Tim On 09/05/2007, at 1:08 PM, Michael MD wrote: I have a page that has links to a pdf and the client wanted to know whether it can be linked to a new window or not. They dont really care about best practises etc but rather what the state Internet guidlines are. I have looked through the 107 page doco but cannot find anything. no idea about state guidelines ... but I hope the page warns people that they are pdf's before they click! One of my pet hates is acrobat reader opening in a browser unexpectedly. It takes a long time to start and the browser is completely locked up while it waits for acrobat reader to start. (acrobat reader had the same problem a decade ago and they never fixed it!) Its especially annoying when looking at government sites - they seem to use pdf for almost everything (including a lot of stuff that could have just been put there as html) If it's a pdf I prefer to just download it and open it in acrobat reader without using the browser - much less hassle and I can still browse while waiting for acrobat reader to start! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] wa state guidlines question
Tamara, I never look to AGIMO except to see what they are mucking up. A review of their Finance and Gov pages These AGIMO pages are a bit ordinary for accessibility. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustWeb.html#agmio I never look to AGIMO, except to wonder what low standards they are now promoting! They stated to me when I pointed out Centrelink homepage errors, We lead by example Special Minister responsible for AGIMO, Gary Nair also states that: Australia leads the world in e-governance. But I proved they are not. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/Results.html On average UK sites had fewer validation errors and more accessibility features. AGIMO do not lead by example, see a review of the AGIMO 2006 awards for excellence. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustWeb.html#roadready Tim On 09/05/2007, at 1:24 PM, Tamara Jackson wrote: Hi Jermayn When in doubt, look to AGIMO and what they recommend. Mostly, they recommend us looking at W3C, and our obligation there is to fulfil at least the level one priorities. W3C tells us to avoid opening new windows as far as is possible (can't remember which priority level that is!). However, you'll find that many users still close the entire browser window in an attempt to close a PDF, so it may be better to open it in a new window. To some extent, this decision is more up to each individual department, and I've seen both practices implemented. Does your department have specific guidelines? Tamara :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jermayn Parker Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2007 12:37 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] wa state guidlines question Hi group, This may only relate to Western Australian people but someone else may know... I have a page that has links to a pdf and the client wanted to know whether it can be linked to a new window or not. They dont really care about best practises etc but rather what the state Internet guidlines are. I have looked through the 107 page doco but cannot find anything. Thanks for you rhelp Jermayn *** * The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 *** * * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] markup for headline and tagline
What markup do you favor for a headline-tagline pair? (The second element could be a tagline or a byline.) h1Thundering Pigs/h1 citea blog by Bob/cite No, cite is for citations. A question on cite: is this an appropriate usage? pThe SitePoint book citeBuild Your Own Web Site The Right Way/cite, by Ian Lloyd, is a great primer for learning acronymHTML/acronym and acronymCSS/acronym./p Wouldn't it be more like the book title or ship names get an Italic font and use cite if your quote the actual text?eg pThe Sitepoint book a class=ItalicShipBuild Your own websites/a on page 245 states that citeStylesheet font tags should not be used in html documents/cite I generally use abbr title=Hypertext Markup Languagehtml/abbr but it is also an acronym. Can you use acronym abbr title= html /abbr /acronym Tim The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Search Workshop - 10 May 2007 [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
A reminder about an upcoming AGIMO-Funnelback search workshop. There is no cost to attend. The Australian Government Information Management Office (AGIMO) makes the Funnelback search service available to other Australian Government agencies. This service is free to Australian (Commonwealth) Government agencies. The search service was developed for australia.gov.au and is now used by 15 government agencies, including the Department of Health and Ageing and Geoscience Australia. Agenda 1. About the Search Service and its use on australia.gov.au - Peter Alexander (Director, Online Services, AGIMO) 2. Importance of Search and Search Best Practices - David Hawking (Chief Scientist, Funnelback) 3. Case Studies: Agencies using the Government Search Service - Rosalind Hay (Department of Health and Ageing); National Health and Medical Research Council (to be confirmed) 4. Demonstration of the Search Service: Setup, Results, Reporting, Customisation - Brett Matson (Funnelback) Workshop details When: Thursday 10 May, 9.00 -12.00 Where: CSIRO Discovery Centre, Clunies Ross Street, Acton, ACT Coffee, tea and light refreshments will be provided. RSVP to AGIMO by Friday 4 May Phone: Gordon Grace (6215 1598) or Tim Dale (6215 1511) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards Tim Dale Project Manager - australia.gov.au Australian Government Information Management Office Department of Finance and Administration Finance Australian Business Number (ABN): 61 970 632 495 Finance Web Site: www.finance.gov.au IMPORTANT: This transmission is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify us immediately by telephone on 61-2-6215- and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. If responding to this email, please send to the appropriate person using the suffix .gov.au. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Australian University W3C validity and WCAG accessibility tests
I have just completed the first draft on an ongoing study and test of major Australian universities for: W3C validity as html or xhtml documents. WCAG Priority One to Three accessibility tests and other more subjective accessibility features. The results: 64% of Australian University homepages passed Priority One WCAG Checklists. 32% of Australian University homepages validated as html or xhtml documents. Previous research by Alexander found much lower compliance rates, 98% failed accessibility tests. It seems there have been lots of improvements in university websites since 2003, especially with alt tags for images. There are still many problems though. Any comments or criticisms would be welcomed. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustUni.html#skipnav Yours Faithfully Tim Anderson The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Valid and well-formed
Are these documents really well-formed, they may validate. but with warnings you should not ignore. Warning Line 8 column 72: character is the first character of a delimiter but occurred as data. ...ML 1.0 Strict, but it isn't well-formed XML. /p Warning Line 8 column 72: character is the first character of a delimiter but occurred as data. ...ML 1.0 Strict, but it isn't well-formed XML. /p Is formed the author David's term. Does the W3C validation mention well-formedness? No. Please do not quote Wikipedia, when the W3C sets authoritative documentation. What do W3C say about well-formed, nothing I expect? Tim On 27/04/2007, at 5:41 PM, Katrina wrote: Gday all, I've been pondering this for a few days and I was wondering what other people's take on this is: David Hammond suggests that validity is not well-formedness, in that a document can be well-formed and not valid, but could also be !!! valid and not well-formed. http://www.webdevout.net/articles/validity-and-well- formedness#validity_well_formedness It was my understanding that valid were a subset of well-formed documents, and therefore, by its very nature, valid documents were well-formed. I believe this is supported by the documentation from the W3C: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-documents suggest that in addition, the XML document is valid if it meets certain further constraints. That suggests to me that conformation to a specification is in addition to well-formed-ness, in order to be valid. For further support, from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML#Well-formed_and_valid_XML_documents that says that valid pages *additionally* conforms to some semantic rule(s). That additionally to me would suggest being well-formed. Is David Hammond correct? Or is he relying on some errors of the validator to justify his arguments? Kat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript Programming Problem
I think the javascript should be declared as
script type=text/javascriptsrc=scripts/swapstyle.js/script
Why not link to the javascript rather then embed it in the page. Bots
don't like javascript.
Also to be sure for jaws add the noscript element and put the links in
there.
noscript/noscript
Tim
On 16/04/2007, at 10:44 AM, marvin hunkin wrote:
Hi.
having a problem with linking my javascript function, to a webpage for
an assignment.
tried a number of thing.
if i take out the javascript line and have got my folder structure
correct.
when i put in the javascript line, and using jaws 6.10, windows xp
pro, and using internet explorer 6.0, jaws does not read any of the
links, text, etc, and does when i take out the line below.
if any one can help me, why this is happening, and how to fix it so it
works.
cheers Marvin.
ps: will paste the webpage and the javascript below.
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd;
html
head
meta http-equiv=content-type content=text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1 /
link href=../styles/joe_style.css rel=stylesheet type=text/css
/
script language=JavaScript src=javascript/javascript/order.js
titleJoe's Order Form/title
/head
body
div id=banner class=banner
p img src=images/joes_header.jpg width=482 height=42
alt=Joe's Fruit Shop / /p
/div
div id=nav class=nav
img src=images/berry01_red.gif width=22 height=20 alt=Red
Berries /
br /
div id=links
p a href=../html/index.html title=HomeHome span Back To Home
Page /span /a /p
img src=images/berry01_red.gif width=22 height=20 alt=Red
Berries /
br /
p a href=../html/produce.html title=Joe's Fruit Shop
CatalogueJoe's Fruit Shop Catalogue span Joe's Fruit Shop
Catalogue /span /a /p
img src=images/berry01_red.gif width=22 height=20 alt=Red
Berries /
br /
p a href=../html/history.html title=Joe's HistoryJoe's History
span Joe's History /span /a /p
p a href=../html/contact.html title=Contact UsContact Us
span Contact Us /span /a /p
/div
/div
div id=content class=content
form name=orderForm method=post
h2Order Form For Joe's Fruit Shop/h2
h2A * means you must fill in the details./h2
h2Your Details:/h2
p * Name: input type=text name=Name size=40
onclick=inputName() / /p
p * Address: input type=text name=Address size=40
onclick=inputAddress() / /p
p * Suburb: input type=text name=Suburb size=40
onclick=inputSuburb() / /p
p * Postcode: input type=text name=PostCode size=4
onclick=inputPostcode() / /p
p * Email Address: input type=text name=Email size=40
onclick=inputEmail() / /p
p Orders: input type=text name=Orders size=4
onclick=inputOrders() / /p
pCredit Card Details:/p
p * Type:/p
select
option value=AMEX selectedAMEX/option
option value=VISAVISA/option
option value=MCRDMasterCard/option
option value=DINRDiners Club/option
option value=BANKBankcard/option
/select
pExpiry date:/p
select
option value=1 selected01/option
option value=202/option
option value=303/option
option value=404/option
option value=505/option
option value=606/option
option value=707/option
option value=808/option
option value=909/option
option value=1010/option
option value=/option
option value=1212/option
/select
option value=1 selected2006/option
option value=22007/option
option value=32008/option
option value=42009/option
/select
p input type=submit name=Submit value=Submit / /p
p input type=Submit name=Submit value=Clear Form / /p
/form
/div
div style=position: absolute; left: 490px; text-align: left;
font-size: 10pt;
a href=../html/copyright.html title=Copyright Notice
target=_blankCopyright/a
a href=../html/privacy.html title=Privacy Notice
target=_blankPrivacy/a
a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]'s Website QueryE-Mail
Joe Bashir/a
p
a href=http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=referer;img
src=http://www.w3.org/Icons/valid-xhtml10;
alt=Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional height=31 width=88 //a
/p
/div
/body
/html
//Script Name: order.js
//Script Description: Order form For Joe's Fruit Shop
//Programmer Marvin Hunkin
//Date Created: Friday April 13 2007
//Version Number: 1.0
//Variable Declarations For Joe's Fruit Shop Order Form
var inputName;
var inputAddress;
var inputSuburb;
var inputPostcode;
var inputEmail;
var inputOrders;
//Function to display and validate Person's Name
function inputName()
{
document.write(Name: + inputName);
If (orderForm.inputName.value==)
{
alert(Please Enter Your Name:);
}
}
//Function to display and validate Persons Address
function inputAddress()
{
document.write(Address: + inputAddress);
If (orderForm.inputAddress.value==)
{
alert(Please Enter Your Address:);
}
}
//Function to display and validate Persons Suburb
function inputSuburb()
{
document.write(Suburb: + inputSuburb);
If (orderForm.inputSuburb.value==)
{
alert(Please Enter Your Suburb
Re: [WSG] WANAU - anyone heard of them?
Thanks Andrew for correcting me and you too Russ. Was I ranting or being prejudiced against sandwiches as a metaphor for procrastination? The latter I thought. Sorry. I don't mind being alienated if a scape goat is required. If there were a page of Aust uni reviews detailing errors in each one it would be a negative reinforcement and potential legal liability that the holders of the Uni budget will be forced to consider. Not the old case of the forced to use unescaped ampersands! When will they ever learn? A page of reviews would help those of you forced to include invalid links in your html. Your Melb Uni page validates nicely. Tim On 11/04/2007, at 3:05 PM, Andrew Harris wrote: Tim, if there's no sandwiches, I'm not going. ... ;-) seriously though, I think you have a point, but I don't think your approach will achieve anything. It's like howling at the developers of IE because they were part of a team that brought us a dodgy browser. There are many many good folk building websites at universities and WANAU is one way that they can share their ideas... but, by and large, these are not the people who hold the purse strings and call the shots when it comes to developing big university systems, so there is no use ranting at them and alienating them. You condemn the Griffith page apparently on the basis of a URL that contains unescaped ampersands. I know at Melbourne University, we have had systems that simply would not recognise escaped ampersands in links (haven't checked that one for a while), so we were forced to leave links invalid. These are not little systems - to upgrade or change vendor would cost many many millions of dollars. Not valid and therefore, strictly speaking, not accessible. Still, I couldn't be 100% certain, but I'd take a guess that no-one apart from the validator cared or even noticed. -- Andrew Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.woowoowoo.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] WANAU - anyone heard of them?
On 11/04/2007, at 9:41 AM, Susie Gardner-Brown wrote: Web Accessibility Network for Australian Universities ... http://www.wanau.org/site.html They are proposing running their annual forum on Accessibility in online teaching at UQ where I work, and we’ve been asked to help ... :) I expect I will be involved anyway, but would be interested in any feedback! Cheers Susie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Don't be conned Susie, Who are this group, what have they done in previous forums since 2004. Where was it held last year? Who attended last year? I bet they are selling training courses, seen in links to a business case on the W3C site.. Funny that they are from RMIT yet there is no action at their own University. Multiple page errors. Fix your own Uni pages first. http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rmit.edu.au%2F They do have a few different stylesheets, but the changes between them are minor colour changes. I thought Dey Alexander was working with Vision Australia who to me seem to accept low government standards to get training contracts from AGIMO. Following Maquire v Sydney Olympics, who does any legal advocation for the blind apart from myself? This group may want to sell you training contracts. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustWeb.html#visaust Bloody hell I work hard on testing Australian sites including Universities who should know better, what is WANAU, what have they done. With a few dollars funding I could review all Australian Universities and have a reference page showing those who fail and why, what else do you need, fund me to complete a review of University webpages and forget the talkfest. Australian sites are in a bad way, few Universities know what accessibility is. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustWeb.html ANU fails RMIT fails Sydney Fail Swinburne fails I have done dozens reviews of Australian government websites and advocated a legal position to HREOC. what has WANAU done apart from make a few webpages? Yours Faithfully Tim Anderson The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] WANAU - anyone heard of them?
Pioneers, Not in making their own sites accessible. Don't make me laugh. Tim On 11/04/2007, at 10:02 AM, Michael Wood wrote: WANAU has been an invaluable leader in promoting accessibility issues in policies within Universities for some years now. Their site used to be self-explanatory. Haven't been involved for some time but they are very deserving of your help - very practical pioneers on this issue. Michael Michael Wood Repository Manager La Trobe University Library Bundoora VIC 3086 Australia ph: +61 3 9479 5173 fax: +61 3 9479 3018 mob: +61 402 969 863 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 4/11/07, Susie Gardner-Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Web Accessibility Network for Australian Universities ... http://www.wanau.org/site.html They are proposing running their annual forum on Accessibility in online teaching at UQ where I work, and we've been asked to help ... :) I expect I will be involved anyway, but would be interested in any feedback! Cheers Susie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] WANAU - anyone heard of them?
What are the forums great for? Sandwiches and a chat! What is the concrete result of the forums? For example did Griffith Uni gain anything from the 2005 sandwich fest. It does not appear there was any benefit to Griffith Uni students. http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.griffith.edu.au%2F Tim On 11/04/2007, at 11:54 AM, Ben Buchanan wrote: Hi Susie, Web Accessibility Network for Australian Universities ... http://www.wanau.org/site.html They are proposing running their annual forum on Accessibility in online teaching at UQ where I work, and we've been asked to help ... :) I expect I will be involved anyway, but would be interested in any feedback! WANAU has been around for a few years now and the forums are great. Of course I may be biased since I ran the 2005 forum at Griffith ;) Basically WANAU is there to connect university-based web professionals and allow knowledge sharing, events, etc. Universities have accessibility challenges which often require different approaches than those encountered in the commercial sector; so WANAU provides a great way to get people together to discuss the issues. Well worth being involved if you're a web professional at a uni! :) cheers, Ben -- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] WANAU - anyone heard of them?
Thanks Jonathan, They don't sell anything is a good sign, Please pardon my cynical impatience for action. I believe that the only real magic is taking action to promote or even legally (1992 DDA) force change. Shame them and name them, show their validation errors and accessibility flaws. Just don't have too many cucumber sandwiches chatting is my cynical view. For example See my review of the AGIMO award winning sites, a cucumber sandwich festival. My review of Australian UK and USA sites does differ from others? 1) It never finishes and is always being updated. 2) It is a longitudinal study exposing W3C flaws with links anyone can follow to detail the errors. 3) It details errors and accessibility features that could be used What about a page on Australian Universities similar to what I have done for aus.gov.au sites. Wouldn't that be of practical value to shame Aust universities not up to scratch, rather than chatting and more sandwiches? Not just a study which concludes things are not up to scratch, but a page detailing errors and improvement which could be made. Tell me a page on Australian university reviews like my other reviews is not needed but more sandwiches are. Australian government web sites http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustWeb.html USA sites http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/USAweb.html UK sites http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/UKweb.html Results http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/Results.html Study design http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/WebSurvey.html Bring academic studies into the real internet world, make them available over the web, with suggestions and W3C validation links, help the Universities with constructive criticism. No more sandwiches. Tim On 11/04/2007, at 12:32 PM, Jonathan O'Donnell wrote: Hi Tim The Web Accessibility Network for Australian Universities (WANAU) is a volunteer group with no formal structure (that I know of), much like Web Standards Group. It seeks to promote Web accessibility within Australian universities. They run a mailing list [1], forums at universities [2] and generally have a 'birds of a feather' meeting at OZeWAI [3] and possibly other conferences, like AusWeb. WANAU is not from RMIT, although WANAU's 2007 Victorian forum was held at RMIT. [4] I helped organise it and I chaired it. It was well attended, with almost 100 people attending from most (if not all) Victorian universities. People seemed to like it. WANAU do not sell training courses. They don't sell anything, actually. Dey Alexander is an independent consultant. [5] She used to work for Monash University. She probably has worked with Vision Australia in the past. She has completed one review of Australian university Web sites, similar to what you describe [6], and is currently undertaking a second, to update the findings of the first review. The results will be presented this year at AusWeb. [7] [1] WANAU mailing list: http://www.wanau.org/list.html [2] WANAU forums: http://www.wanau.org/forums2007/ [3] OZeWAI conference: http://www.ozewai.org/ [4] 2007 Victorian WANAU forum: http://www.wanau.org/forums2007/melbourne.html [5] Dey Alexander Consulting: http://www.deyalexander.com/ [6] Alexander Dey, 30 Jan 2004, How Accessible Are Australian University Web Sites?, Ariadne 38, http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue38/web-watch/ [7] AusWeb: http://ausweb.scu.edu.au/ -- Jonathan O'Donnell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://purl.nla.gov.au/net/jod +61 4 2575 5829 On 11/04/2007, at 11:38 AM, Tim wrote: On 11/04/2007, at 9:41 AM, Susie Gardner-Brown wrote: Web Accessibility Network for Australian Universities ... http://www.wanau.org/site.html They are proposing running their annual forum on Accessibility in online teaching at UQ where I work, and we’ve been asked to help ... :) I expect I will be involved anyway, but would be interested in any feedback! Cheers Susie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Don't be conned Susie, Who are this group, what have they done in previous forums since 2004. Where was it held last year? Who attended last year? I bet they are selling training courses, seen in links to a business case on the W3C site.. Funny that they are from RMIT yet there is no action at their own University. Multiple page errors. Fix your own Uni pages first. http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rmit.edu.au%2F They do have a few different stylesheets, but the changes between them are minor colour changes. I thought Dey Alexander was working with Vision Australia who to me seem to accept low government standards to get training contracts from AGIMO
Re: rel post, was: RE: [WSG] style sheets - best practices
Check this out Barney. A use of the before property to add the characters name before their dialogue, for comprehension as well as accessibility. Select stylesheet two. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Novels/NUNC.html on-page devices to switch this The Onpage device is Javascript or select the menu item in the browser, Select style two Black Gold, a cookie retains memory of stylechange, thin rope for accessibility What about a soundscape for the blind (or just listeners) from an aural CSS stytlesheet but (a big BUT) , CSS aural styles are poorly supported. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Access/index.html#auralCSSstyle Screenreaders accepting aural CSS declarations, almost nothing. The Linux freeware screen reader seems to be one of the best. I am not a devotee of any operating system or software. Tim On 16/03/2007, at 9:22 PM, Barney Carroll wrote: Tim wrote: I reckon you are being cynical Barney :-) Consider colour blindness, 8% of adult males, you can allow a user to select a colour scheme. Consider screen size, alternative stylesheets can improve presentation of different devices. I use seven different linked stylesheets on everypage, hardly anyone uses them, but a few people really want and like them. Riiight. I had no idea the rel could be useful as far as this function was concerned. Having said this, I presume you use on-page devices to switch this? Seeing as those special features available in Firefox are in my experience only used by enthusiasts, it seems a pretty thin rope for accessibility features. Regards, Barney *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] style sheets - best practices
It is a bit dated being written in 1997. Neither Netscape or Internet Explorer support multiple linked style sheets as proposed by the CSS standard. That is not true anymore, they all support multiple linked stylesheets. Tim On 16/03/2007, at 1:39 AM, David Cameron wrote: There's a good explaination here: http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly/web/html/ch09_01.html (Scroll down to 'Linked Versus Imported Style Sheets') Dave. From: Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] style sheets - best practices Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 11:57:51 +0100 What is the current best practice for style sheets - imported or linked - and why? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** _ Match.com - Click Here To Find Singles In Your Area Today! http://msnuk.match.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: rel post, was: RE: [WSG] style sheets - best practices
I reckon you are being cynical Barney :-) Consider colour blindness, 8% of adult males, you can allow a user to select a colour scheme. Consider screen size, alternative stylesheets can improve presentation of different devices. I use seven different linked stylesheets on everypage, hardly anyone uses them, but a few people really want and like them. The first stylesheet lined is the default one loaded: link rel=stylesheet href=../SSheets/GreyLarge.css media=all type=text/css title=Black Blue / Other linked stylesheet are alternative link rel=alternate stylesheet href=../SSheets/NuncStyle1.css media=screen type=text/csstitle=Black Gold / I allow users to select the stylesheet they prefer with Javascript. Also in the browser menu there is usually an option to select a stylesheet. It is never presented to the user by the browser, they need to find it unless the rel attribute matches the device then it is automatically selected. A menu option like Use Style. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Access/index.html#colourCSSstyle Tim On 16/03/2007, at 2:33 AM, Ted Drake wrote: Barney, Do you have any idea where that article was or who wrote it? I'd like to read this. Thanks Ted A while back I read this article on the secret power of the rel property in links... The author went about listing examples of different objects you could link and different terms for what relevance they might have (hence rel values). His enthusiasm was tangible, but he gave absolutely no indication of how this would improve any appreciable aspect of your page as far as user experience was concerned. Am I just being cynical or is it really just a bit unnecessary? Regards, Barney *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Simple to use page layout 'tool' ?
Subject: [WSG] Simple to use page layout 'tool' ? Apologies if this is slightly off topic, but I'm happy to re-post elsewhere. A client wants to be able to create some draft page layouts that they want achieved. Basically, they want a simple piece of software that they can use to drag drop things like buttons, lists, input fields etc onto a page in order to create an initial draft requirement. No functionality is needed - just the ability to create a draft layout and annotate things. For example there might be an arrow pointing to a button with a note that says 'the user clicks this to display a list of products' They can then submit it to us as a starting point. There's a prototyping tool called Denim (http://dub.washington.edu/denim/) which may be what you're looking for. It works best with a digital tablet and is designed for sketching a web interface. It will require 15-20 minutes of demonstration for your client to learn. That said, Chris's recommendation of a pen and legal pad is probably the best way to go. -Tim -- * Tim Offenstein - Web Specialist - CITES - AHS - 244-2700 * A cheerful heart is a good medicine Proverbs 17:22 NRSV *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Simple to use page layout 'tool' ?
I second the Axure recommendation. While it is nearly twice the cost of Visio, it is much easier to use, far more flexible, and actually designed for prototyping websites. Tim McLaughlin, Gail G wrote: Try Axure ( http://www.axure.com/) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] web accessibility-some thoughts
I should have said that laws apply to new kids on the block in theory. The Australian 1992 Disability Discrimination Act is a fairytale. Australian Law is Absolute fiction and un-enforced. State laws like Victorian standards are laughable. For example, Victorian Premier Bracks website, has a contempt for standards and the Premier has a censorsship approach to criticism. We don't even have a Westminster democracy in Victoria, web standards are completely irrevelant to the government. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/Publishing/AustWeb.html#Bracks Try making a complaint to HREOC about any Aust gov website, I have. You will get no-where. HREOC will ask AGIMO for advice and AGIMO will say that any government site is near enough. But Gary Nairn special minister of state said Australia is a leader in e-government Rubbish. Only in the UK it seems there is some action for standards compliance mainly from the RNIB or maybe the Target case in the USA. So in theory laws only apply to new kids on the block in the UK and maybe large corporations in the USA In practice US and Australian laws are platitudes. Tim On 10/03/2007, at 12:55 AM, Raena Jackson Armitage wrote: On 3/9/07, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope you're not thinking of Australian law, Tim. For example, televison broadcasters in Australia are in fact required to caption and had to *apply for* an exemption from liability on the proviso that they improve it. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] web accessibility-some thoughts
On 08/03/2007, at 11:48 PM, Bob Schwartz wrote: Some meandering responses First a disclaimer: This post does not reflect my personal views on web accessibility or handicapped persons, it is merely a collection of academic thoughts triggered by various posts of the past few days. How and why did the web get singled out from among all of the other publishing mediums to be by law accessible? Because we are the latest kid on the block most able, more able than print from my experience of hitting a button to spend on hardcopy. We can provide options Guttenburg could not dream of, options to show the same object for different views. Why aren't book, magazine, and newspaper publishers required to produce an audio or braille version of everything they publish? The Accepted old media grandfather clause, only applies to new kids. Why aren't TV broadcasters and movie production companies required to sub-title all of their broadcasts or films, or have an off screen reader describing the scenes? Again old media exempted from new media rules. Isn't saying one can't (shouldn't) use, for example, a popup window on a web site because screen readers have trouble with them, like telling Hollywood they can't (shouldn't) use certain special effects because the off screen reader would have trouble explaining them to a blind person? But f the director who writes a script which misleads 10% of the audience up a dead end alley with signs saying toilet this way that really lead down ablind alley, has lost a lot of their audience before Act One Scene One is over. It is surely not right for a Hollywood director to want to waste investment money making flops that are never completely seen by a lot of people, the Target website it maybe a metaphorical comparison to a website flop, like a bad hollywood film. It could legally cost your backers to make an inaccessible website, just as the movie director must stick to best practice production rules of lighting and sound the web director should follow standards which allows the largest possible audience of humans and bots. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Background image changes with no html page content
Dear group, Thanks for the recent use of the HR debate, I am a converted to not using them, just because Explorer does not displaying the hr background images, I put all hr's into a div now, it seems to work in Explorer et al? I currently have for all my other pages Top Header page graphic links (warning! some large animated gifs) embedded in the html of each page. I am testing a new page with the animated gifs coming only from the the CSS background image declaration. http://www.hereticpress.com/Dogstar/History/index.html Is the spacing and formatting OK in Explorer? Would I be better off for SEO purposes or accessibility ones keeping static links to the animated gif files on each page? Is there a downside with using CSS images eg. there are no alt or longdesc tags from stylesheet images? On hover is already used to change some images, is it worth the wait with large gifs? I would prefer that the linked background image is clickable to a web URL like a copyright page! Legally I should have a link to the copyright page! but I want to change all the images with stylesheet changes? (still working on the gifs) I feel uneasy about this, not having some html content on each page not for the graphics, but extras for anyone who cannot see the gifs, like an alt tag for the CSS, I fear that the page accessibility and page indexing by bots could be affected by CSS only images, even though that is what the CSS should be good at, without some page html, it seems all dressed up with no alt place to go? Tim The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] standards selling points
There are some Irish guidelines and what about the status of EU standards compliance? http://accessit.nda.ie/technologyindex_1.html Tim On 09/03/2007, at 1:18 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote: Hello, This has been discussed before but i was wondering about new input. I've tendered on a big job and i will be up against a lot of competition. What are some web standards selling points that might get through to a completely uniformed, unsavy client. The job requires a cms, ill be using text pattern which I'm in the process of learning, because of this I dont know if ill be able to reach XHTML 1.0 Strict yet. I will just be building a standards compliant and accessible site-im not going to go to crazy with 14pt type. Also the client is a semi-state body-although there are no requirement here in Ireland for accessibility. -best kvnmcwebn *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PopUp windows
Canons! The religion of W3C! All praise to the W3C Only the transitional doctype is available for new window targets, not the strict compliance with W3C Papal enclyclicals. Tim On 07/03/2007, at 9:05 PM, Bob Schwartz wrote: Problem: client wants (insists on having) popup windows. Question: can they be made OK according to all canons of WSG? (ie served in a different/alternative manner for people, devices, etc. - leave aside the js argument, as that I have solved). *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
