Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux?
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 04:15:17PM +0400, Jim Klimov wrote: > Hello, > > A college friend of mine is using Debian Linux on his desktop, > and wondered if he could tap into ZFS goodness without adding > another server in his small quiet apartment or changing the > desktop OS. According to his research, there are some kernel > modules for Debian which implement ZFS, or a FUSE variant. > > Can anyone comment how stable and functional these are? > Performance is a secondary issue, as long as it does not > lead to system crashes due to timeouts, etc. ;) If you would like to stay with Debian, you can try Debian GNU/kFreeBSD with is Debian userland with FreeBSD kernel thus it should contain ZFS. http://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/ -- Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheelsystems.com FreeBSD committer http://www.FreeBSD.org Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! http://yomoli.com pgpC4kjFjQYdh.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux?
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Jim Klimov wrote: > Hello, > > A college friend of mine is using Debian Linux on his desktop, > and wondered if he could tap into ZFS goodness without adding > another server in his small quiet apartment or changing the > desktop OS. According to his research, there are some kernel > modules for Debian which implement ZFS, or a FUSE variant. > > Can anyone comment how stable and functional these are? > Performance is a secondary issue, as long as it does not > lead to system crashes due to timeouts, etc. ;) zfs-fuse has been around for a long time, and is quite stable. Ubuntu natty has it on universe repository (don't know about Debian's repository, but you should be able to use Ubuntu's). It has the benefits and drawbacks of fuse implementation (namely: it does not support zvol) zfsonlinux is somewhat new, and has some problems relating memory management (in some cases arc usage can get very high, and then you'll see high cpu usage by arc_reclaim thread). It's not recommended for 32bit OS. Being in kernel, it has potential to be more stable and faster than zfs-fuse. It has zvol support. Latest rc version is somewhat stable for normal uses. Performance-wise, from my test it can be 4 times slower compared to ext4 (depending on the load). -- Fajar ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux?
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss- > boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Jim Klimov > >A college friend of mine is using Debian Linux on his desktop, > and wondered if he could tap into ZFS goodness without adding > another server in his small quiet apartment or changing the Most likely BTRFS will be your best friend, if what you care about is mostly snapshots. Unfortunately, one major deficiency of BTRFS is the inability to do something on-par with 'zfs send' onto a remote system. Maybe you care, maybe not. BTRFS is included now (and for the last couple of years) on ubuntu, fedora, and surely some other major distros. If you want to consider the Solaris guest idea... I certainly do this in some situations. Here's what you should know. Even with VT (or whatever) enabled and guest tools installed (or whatever) I have never seen virtualbox perform disk IO at a rate satisfactorily similar to the native OS. Furthermore, even if you network the host & guest via virtual network interface (speed limited only by cpu & ram) it doesn't go nearly as fast as you would think... I see something like sustainable maximum 3Gbit going through the virtual network interfaces. And of course you give up a significant chunk of ram to run the virtual guest. Yes, it works. Yes, it's appropriate in some cases. My personal advice would be to look at BTRFS first, and virtual guest second. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux?
On 6/14/2011 12:50 PM, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote: Are there estimates on how performant and stable would it be to run VirtualBox with a Solaris-derived NAS with dedicated hardware disks, and use that from the same desktop? I did actually suggest this as a considered variant as well ;) I am going to try and build such a VirtualBox for my ailing HomeNAS as well - so it would import that iSCSI "dcpool" and try to process its defer-free blocks. At least if the hardware box doesn't stall so that a human has to be around to go and push reset, this would be a more viable solution for my repair-reboot cycles... If you want good performance and ZFS, I'd suggest using something like OpenIndiana or Solaris 11EX or perhaps FreeBSD for the host and VirtualBox for a linux guest if that's needed. Doing so, you'll get good I/O performance, and you can use the operating system or distro you like for the rest of the services. Vennlige hilsener / Best regards roy -- Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk (+47) 97542685 r...@karlsbakk.net http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/ The other option is to make sure you have a newer CPU that supports Virtualized I/O. I'd have to look at the desktop CPUs, but all Intel Nehalem and later CPUs have this feature, and I'm pretty sure all AMD MangyCours and later CPUs do also. Without V-IO, doing anything that pounds on a disk under *any* Virtualization product is sure to make you cry. -- Erik Trimble Java Platform Group Infrastructure Mailstop: usca22-317 Phone: x17195 Santa Clara, CA Timezone: US/Pacific (UTC-0800) ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux?
> Are there estimates on how performant and stable would > it be to run VirtualBox with a Solaris-derived NAS with > dedicated hardware disks, and use that from the same > desktop? I did actually suggest this as a considered > variant as well ;) > > I am going to try and build such a VirtualBox for my ailing > HomeNAS as well - so it would import that iSCSI "dcpool" > and try to process its defer-free blocks. At least if the > hardware box doesn't stall so that a human has to be > around to go and push reset, this would be a more > viable solution for my repair-reboot cycles... If you want good performance and ZFS, I'd suggest using something like OpenIndiana or Solaris 11EX or perhaps FreeBSD for the host and VirtualBox for a linux guest if that's needed. Doing so, you'll get good I/O performance, and you can use the operating system or distro you like for the rest of the services. Vennlige hilsener / Best regards roy -- Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk (+47) 97542685 r...@karlsbakk.net http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/ -- I all pedagogikk er det essensielt at pensum presenteres intelligibelt. Det er et elementært imperativ for alle pedagoger å unngå eksessiv anvendelse av idiomer med fremmed opprinnelse. I de fleste tilfeller eksisterer adekvate og relevante synonymer på norsk. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux?
I just learned from the Phoronix website that KQ Infotech has stopped working on ZFS for Linux, but that their github repo is still active. Also, zfsonlinux.org mentioned earlier on this mail thread is seeing active development. -- Sriram On 6/14/11, Sriram Narayanan wrote: > There's also ZFS from KQInfotech. > > -- Sriram > > On 6/14/11, David Magda wrote: >> On Tue, June 14, 2011 08:15, Jim Klimov wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>>A college friend of mine is using Debian Linux on his desktop, >>> and wondered if he could tap into ZFS goodness without adding >>> another server in his small quiet apartment or changing the >>> desktop OS. According to his research, there are some kernel >>> modules for Debian which implement ZFS, or a FUSE variant. >> >> Besides FUSE, there's also this: >> >> http://zfsonlinux.org/ >> >> Btrfs also has many ZFS-like features: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs >> >>>Can anyone comment how stable and functional these are? >>> Performance is a secondary issue, as long as it does not >>> lead to system crashes due to timeouts, etc. ;) >> >> A better bet would probably be to check out the lists of the porting >> projects themselves. Most of the folks on zfs-discuss are probably people >> that use ZFS on platforms that have more official support for it >> (OpenSolaris-based stuff and FreeBSD). >> >> >> ___ >> zfs-discuss mailing list >> zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > == > Belenix: www.belenix.org > -- Sent from my mobile device == Belenix: www.belenix.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux?
2011-06-14 21:38, Marty Scholes пишет: Just for completeness, there is also VirtualBox which runs Solaris nicely. Are there estimates on how performant and stable would it be to run VirtualBox with a Solaris-derived NAS with dedicated hardware disks, and use that from the same desktop? I did actually suggest this as a considered variant as well ;) I am going to try and build such a VirtualBox for my ailing HomeNAS as well - so it would import that iSCSI "dcpool" and try to process its defer-free blocks. At least if the hardware box doesn't stall so that a human has to be around to go and push reset, this would be a more viable solution for my repair-reboot cycles... //Jim ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux?
Just for completeness, there is also VirtualBox which runs Solaris nicely. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux?
There's also ZFS from KQInfotech. -- Sriram On 6/14/11, David Magda wrote: > On Tue, June 14, 2011 08:15, Jim Klimov wrote: >> Hello, >> >>A college friend of mine is using Debian Linux on his desktop, >> and wondered if he could tap into ZFS goodness without adding >> another server in his small quiet apartment or changing the >> desktop OS. According to his research, there are some kernel >> modules for Debian which implement ZFS, or a FUSE variant. > > Besides FUSE, there's also this: > > http://zfsonlinux.org/ > > Btrfs also has many ZFS-like features: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs > >>Can anyone comment how stable and functional these are? >> Performance is a secondary issue, as long as it does not >> lead to system crashes due to timeouts, etc. ;) > > A better bet would probably be to check out the lists of the porting > projects themselves. Most of the folks on zfs-discuss are probably people > that use ZFS on platforms that have more official support for it > (OpenSolaris-based stuff and FreeBSD). > > > ___ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss > -- Sent from my mobile device == Belenix: www.belenix.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux?
On Tue, June 14, 2011 08:15, Jim Klimov wrote: > Hello, > >A college friend of mine is using Debian Linux on his desktop, > and wondered if he could tap into ZFS goodness without adding > another server in his small quiet apartment or changing the > desktop OS. According to his research, there are some kernel > modules for Debian which implement ZFS, or a FUSE variant. Besides FUSE, there's also this: http://zfsonlinux.org/ Btrfs also has many ZFS-like features: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs >Can anyone comment how stable and functional these are? > Performance is a secondary issue, as long as it does not > lead to system crashes due to timeouts, etc. ;) A better bet would probably be to check out the lists of the porting projects themselves. Most of the folks on zfs-discuss are probably people that use ZFS on platforms that have more official support for it (OpenSolaris-based stuff and FreeBSD). ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
[zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux?
Hello, A college friend of mine is using Debian Linux on his desktop, and wondered if he could tap into ZFS goodness without adding another server in his small quiet apartment or changing the desktop OS. According to his research, there are some kernel modules for Debian which implement ZFS, or a FUSE variant. Can anyone comment how stable and functional these are? Performance is a secondary issue, as long as it does not lead to system crashes due to timeouts, etc. ;) Thanks, //Jim Klimov ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
[zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux (NO LISCENCE talk, please)
Hello. I'm a nobody. I use Linux. I have a hard-drive. I want the best / sexiest / what ever fs for my hard-drive, as it isn't one of those flashy flash drives, which I presume don't need an fs (???). I was THRILLED that the ZFS for Linux thread started. And, I was equally horrified (and sufficiently annoyed that I am starting this new thread) when it degraded in to uninformed blather about this liscence or that. To be honest, I don't give a damn. We doesn't this list and it's esteemed members actually talk about the issues concerning a port from Sun to Linux. I don't want to hear about the FUSE thing; it's slow, radically incomplete and generally stupid. I also don't want this thread to degenerate in to liscence bashing. In fact, try to avoid talking about this altogether. Aside from those constraints, run with it. Speak, ye devs! Tell all what must be done to get ZFS on Linux and I will try to see it done. Cheers. -- —A watched bread-crumb never boils. —My hover-craft is full of eels. —[...]and that's the he and the she of it. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux 2.6
Matt Ingenthron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm not an expert (nor am I offering legal advice), but my understanding > of GPLv2 is the copyright holder can explicitly state exceptions on > linking, so they could allow linking with ZFS even though it's under the > CDDL. Linux, when run on say something like a mainframe, already does > link with non-GPL modules. The GPLv2 does not prevent linking with different projects under different licenses, it just prevents non-GPLv2d code to appear inside a a GPLd project. The latter would only be true if someone claims ZFS is a part ot the Linux Project (GPL speek: "work"). Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux 2.6
Erik Trimble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There have been extensive discussions on loadable modules and licensing
> w/r/t the GPLv2 in the linux kernel. nVidia, amongst others, pushed hard
> to allow for non-GPL-compatible licensed code to be allowed as a Linux
> kernel module. However, the kernel developers' consensus seems to have
> come down against modifying the current kernel GPL license to allow for
> non-GPL'd loadable modules.
If ever, you would not need to modify the GPL (you are not allowed to do so
anyway), but the Linux kernel code would need changes to have more clean
interfaces.
Depending on the type of a loadable module and on the country where the Author
is located (and the local Gopyright law), it looks like non-GPL modules are
usually allowed unless you try to incorporate these modules into the
Linux _project_ itself.
The GPL only requires that all files from a single project ("Work") are
under GPL.
As I would call ZFS a separate project, it may be under a separate and
different license.
Note that if the people who like to disallow code under non-GPL lisenses
like CDDLd code to be used together with GPLd projects, these people must
(if they would be consistent) also demand that GPLd projects may not use
LGPLd libraries (as these libs usually cannot be relicensed under GPL).
Conclusion: it is a problem that lives in the mind of the Linux kernel people
that cannot be fixed unless these people start having a more realistic view
on the problem.
Jörg
--
EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
[EMAIL PROTECTED](uni)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
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Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux 2.6
There have been extensive discussions on loadable modules and licensing w/r/t the GPLv2 in the linux kernel. nVidia, amongst others, pushed hard to allow for non-GPL-compatible licensed code to be allowed as a Linux kernel module. However, the kernel developers' consensus seems to have come down against modifying the current kernel GPL license to allow for non-GPL'd loadable modules. For an example of the type of exception required to explicitly allow this type of behavior, check out the GNU Classpath project's license: http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath/license.html This is similar to the LGPL license. The issue of non-GPL'd loadable modules is still a very active discussion, so I'm sure the last word hasn't been decided. As pointed out, though, the ZFS code is CDDL, which is incompatible with the GPL. The FUSE project is using a similar approach to nVidia, using a piece of "shim" GPL'd code as a loadable module providing a stable kernel API to call from userland applications, which can carry any license desired. -Erik ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux 2.6
James Dickens wrote: On 11/6/06, Yuen L. Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm curious whether there is a version of Linux 2.6 ZFS available? Many thanks. sorry there is no ZFS in Linux, and given current stands of Linus Torvalds and the current Kernel team there never will be, because Linux is GPLv2 and it is incompatible with ZFS that is released under the CDDL license. The closest possibility to getting ZFS in Linux is through the FUSE project that is porting ZFS to userland that runs inside Linux but is not in the kernel so not limited by the license argument. Just in case it isn't mentioned by someone else, many of the OpenSolaris folks would probably encourage you, Yuen, to bring this up with the Linux kernel folks. Obviously, things like filesystems are very useful to have implementations of on many platforms (i.e. people should own their data, their operating systems shouldn't). I'm not an expert (nor am I offering legal advice), but my understanding of GPLv2 is the copyright holder can explicitly state exceptions on linking, so they could allow linking with ZFS even though it's under the CDDL. Linux, when run on say something like a mainframe, already does link with non-GPL modules. So my understanding is it's not a legal issue or technical issue (other than that pesky porting), but more of a whether-or-not-people-want-it. So if you want it, you should ping the appropriate Linux folks. Of course its probably easier just to run Solaris Express it should have most of your favorite Linux applications allready ported, if not you can use Brandz that allows you to run most Linux apps/excutables in a Zone inside Solaris. James Dickens uadmin.blogspot.com This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss -- Matt Ingenthron - Web Infrastructure Solutions Architect Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Client Solutions, Systems Practice http://blogs.sun.com/mingenthron/ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 310-242-6439 ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux 2.6
On 11/6/06, Yuen L. Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm curious whether there is a version of Linux 2.6 ZFS available?Many thanks.sorry there is no ZFS in Linux, and given current stands of Linus Torvalds and the current Kernel team there never will be, because Linux is GPLv2 and it is incompatible with ZFS that is released under the CDDL license. The closest possibility to getting ZFS in Linux is through the FUSE project that is porting ZFS to userland that runs inside Linux but is not in the kernel so not limited by the license argument. Of course its probably easier just to run Solaris Express it should have most of your favorite Linux applications allready ported, if not you can use Brandz that allows you to run most Linux apps/excutables in a Zone inside Solaris. James Dickensuadmin.blogspot.com This message posted from opensolaris.org___zfs-discuss mailing listzfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux 2.6
Hi Yuen, Not to my knowledge. I believe this project is working on it though: http://zfs-on-fuse.blogspot.com/ Best Regards, Jason On 11/6/06, Yuen L. Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm curious whether there is a version of Linux 2.6 ZFS available? Many thanks. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
[zfs-discuss] ZFS for Linux 2.6
I'm curious whether there is a version of Linux 2.6 ZFS available? Many thanks. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
