Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
On 25 Feb 2010, at 14:28, Sean Sprague wrote: > Bob, > >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010, Joerg Schilling wrote: >>> >>> and what uname -s reports. >> >> It will surely report "OrkOS". > > For OpenSolaris, "OracOS" - surely there must be Blakes 7 fans in Oracle > Corp.? You can see all the working bits courtesy of dtrace... >> I am glad to be able to contribute positively and constructively to this >> discussion. > > Metoo ;-) ... Sean. I'll get my coat. Cheers, Chris ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
Bob, On Tue, 23 Feb 2010, Joerg Schilling wrote: and what uname -s reports. It will surely report "OrkOS". For OpenSolaris, "OracOS" - surely there must be Blakes 7 fans in Oracle Corp.? I am glad to be able to contribute positively and constructively to this discussion. Metoo ;-) ... Sean. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010, Joerg Schilling wrote: and what uname -s reports. It will surely report "OrkOS". Ork: 2. (Mythology) A mythical monster of varying descriptions; an ogre. [PJC] Goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs of the worst description. --J. J. Tolkien (The Hobbit) I am glad to be able to contribute positively and constructively to this discussion. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
Erik Trimble wrote: > But, yes, the proper way to talk all about this now is to say "Oracle" > when you mean the company, and "Sun" when you are talking about specific > brand-name products. The latter will almost certainly be restricted to > hardware - all software that I know of is having a 's/Sun/Oracle/' > regex done on it. If this is done really everywhere, then I suspect that a lot of software will no longer compile correctly. It would be interesting to know whether sun, __sun, __SunOS*, __SUNPRO*, __SUN* and similar sre still defined and what uname -s reports. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
Hi, > Without saying anything negative about Nexenta I would strongly recommend > you go try to send a single patch to their equivalent of onnv-gate before > recommending it as any sort of replacement for OpenSolaris. Not sure what the above is intended to mean. To clear things, Nexenta project is open to patches. It always makes sense to send patches to the upstream project (for any project), but if there's an instance where upstream does not integrate a patch, the Nexenta project will definitely consider adding it. This discussion is a bug/rfe report away. Code/Tracker: http://www.nexenta.org/projects/nexenta-gate Thanks, Anil ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
http://www.oracle.com/features/suncustomers.html link to "Oracle Plans" statement Personally I am not "freaking" I think the product is too good for Oracle to Flush the technology, who knows what the future holds. I do have the wait and see approach but until I see some drastic departure from the current path I will not be jumping ship. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
James C. McPherson wrote: On 22/02/10 09:40 PM, Peter Tribble wrote: On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: Oracle's silence is starting to become a bit ominous. What are the future options for zfs, should OpenSolaris be left dead in the water by Suracle? I have no insight into who core zfs developers are (have any been fired by Sun even prior to the merger?), and who's paying them. Assuming a worst case scenario, what would be the best candidate for a fork? Nexenta? Debian already included FreeBSD as a kernel flavor into its fold, it seems Nexenta could be also a good candidate. Maybe anyone in the know could provide a short blurb on what the state is, and what the options are. Of course they can't. If they're in the know, then they're almost certainly not in a position to talk about it in public. Asking here does not help, as I doubt if anyone from Sun/Oracle would be wise to give any response. One more thing -- please remember that it's not "Sunacle", "Suracle" or "Soracle", but "Oracle Corporation". Actually, I think my new paycheck is supposed to be from "Oracle America, Inc.". What is commonly known as Oracle is actually a group of (holding) companies tied together in ways I don't understand. But, yes, the proper way to talk all about this now is to say "Oracle" when you mean the company, and "Sun" when you are talking about specific brand-name products. The latter will almost certainly be restricted to hardware - all software that I know of is having a 's/Sun/Oracle/' regex done on it. Also (as Peter has mentioned) nobody who is likely to post to this mailing list would be authorised to comment or utter anything authoritative. You will just have to wait for the official word to be announced - as will we all. James C. McPherson -- Senior Kernel Software Engineer, Solaris Sun Microsystems http://blogs.sun.com/jmcphttp://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog Not just that, but I know that over here in Java-land, policies on a whole bunch of things are being re-thought. So, if you are concerned, please, TALK TO AN OFFICIAL rep (which is most likely your sales rep), so they can get the word back up the management chain. Engineering is really not a good place to try to push customer thoughts/feedback up into management. Without being derogatory, this is what marketing droids are for.These [engineers] aren't the droids you're looking for. -- Erik Trimble Java System Support Mailstop: usca22-123 Phone: x17195 Santa Clara, CA ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
Oracle is reviewing the Sun product roadmap and will provide guidance to customers in accordance with Oracle's standard product communication policies. Any resulting features and timing of release of such features as determined by Oracle's review of roadmaps, are at the sole discretion of Oracle. All product roadmap information, whether communicated by Sun Microsystems or by Oracle, does not represent a commitment to deliver any material, code, or functionality, and should not be relied upon in making purchasing decisions. It is intended for information purposes only, and may not be incorporated into any contract. Quote from the footer on the following link. http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/eosl_opensolaris.html ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Henrik Johansen wrote: > On 02/22/10 03:35 PM, Jacob Ritorto wrote: >> >> On 02/22/10 09:19, Henrik Johansen wrote: >>> >>> On 02/22/10 02:33 PM, Jacob Ritorto wrote: On 02/22/10 06:12, Henrik Johansen wrote: > > Well - once thing that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable is the fact > that you no longer can buy OpenSolaris Support subscriptions. > > Almost every trace of it has vanished from the Sun/Oracle website and a > quick call to our local Sun office confirmed that they apparently no > longer sell them. I was actually very startled to see that since we're using it in production here. After digging through the web for hours, I found that OpenSolaris support is now included in Solaris support. This is a win for us because we never know if a particular box, especially a dev box, is going to remain Solaris or OpenSolaris for the duration of a support purchase and now we're free to mix and mingle. If you refer to the Solaris support web page (png attached if the mailing list allows), you'll see that OpenSolaris is now officially part of the deal and is no longer being treated as a second class support offering. >>> >>> That would be *very* nice indeed. I have checked the URL in your >>> screenshot but I am getting a different result (png attached). >>> >>> Ohwell - I'll just have to wait and see. >> >> Confirmed your finding Henrik. This is a showstopper for us as the >> higherups are already quite leery of Sun/Oracle and the future of >> Solaris. I'm calling Oracle to see if I can get some answers. The SUSE >> folks recently took a big chunk of our UNIX business here and >> OpenSolaris was my main tool in battling that. For us, the loss of >> OpenSolaris and its support likely indicates the end of Solaris >> altogether. > > Well - I too am reluctant to put more OpenSolaris boxes into production > until this matter has been resolved. > > >Look at http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/eosl_opensolaris.html > >This page is stating that OpenSolaris is supported for up to 5 years. > >- -- >Al Slater Since we're OT here, I've started a new thread in Indiana-Discuss called OpenSolaris EOSL: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/indiana-discuss/2010-February/017593.html FWIW, I suspect that this situation does not warrant a "Wait and See" response. We're being badly mistreated here and it's probably too late to do anything about it. Probably the only chance to quell this poor stewardship is to get big and loud right away. Then we can see if Oracle actually respects the notion of community. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
On 02/22/10 03:35 PM, Jacob Ritorto wrote: On 02/22/10 09:19, Henrik Johansen wrote: On 02/22/10 02:33 PM, Jacob Ritorto wrote: On 02/22/10 06:12, Henrik Johansen wrote: Well - once thing that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable is the fact that you no longer can buy OpenSolaris Support subscriptions. Almost every trace of it has vanished from the Sun/Oracle website and a quick call to our local Sun office confirmed that they apparently no longer sell them. I was actually very startled to see that since we're using it in production here. After digging through the web for hours, I found that OpenSolaris support is now included in Solaris support. This is a win for us because we never know if a particular box, especially a dev box, is going to remain Solaris or OpenSolaris for the duration of a support purchase and now we're free to mix and mingle. If you refer to the Solaris support web page (png attached if the mailing list allows), you'll see that OpenSolaris is now officially part of the deal and is no longer being treated as a second class support offering. That would be *very* nice indeed. I have checked the URL in your screenshot but I am getting a different result (png attached). Ohwell - I'll just have to wait and see. Confirmed your finding Henrik. This is a showstopper for us as the higherups are already quite leery of Sun/Oracle and the future of Solaris. I'm calling Oracle to see if I can get some answers. The SUSE folks recently took a big chunk of our UNIX business here and OpenSolaris was my main tool in battling that. For us, the loss of OpenSolaris and its support likely indicates the end of Solaris altogether. Well - I too am reluctant to put more OpenSolaris boxes into production until this matter has been resolved. -- Med venlig hilsen / Best Regards Henrik Johansen hen...@scannet.dk Tlf. 75 53 35 00 ScanNet Group A/S ScanNet ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 22/02/2010 14:35, Jacob Ritorto wrote: > On 02/22/10 09:19, Henrik Johansen wrote: >> On 02/22/10 02:33 PM, Jacob Ritorto wrote: >>> On 02/22/10 06:12, Henrik Johansen wrote: Well - once thing that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable is the fact that you no longer can buy OpenSolaris Support subscriptions. Almost every trace of it has vanished from the Sun/Oracle website and a quick call to our local Sun office confirmed that they apparently no longer sell them. >>> >>> I was actually very startled to see that since we're using it in >>> production here. After digging through the web for hours, I found that >>> OpenSolaris support is now included in Solaris support. This is a win >>> for us because we never know if a particular box, especially a dev box, >>> is going to remain Solaris or OpenSolaris for the duration of a support >>> purchase and now we're free to mix and mingle. If you refer to the >>> Solaris support web page (png attached if the mailing list allows), >>> you'll see that OpenSolaris is now officially part of the deal and is no >>> longer being treated as a second class support offering. >> >> That would be *very* nice indeed. I have checked the URL in your >> screenshot but I am getting a different result (png attached). >> >> Ohwell - I'll just have to wait and see. > > Confirmed your finding Henrik. This is a showstopper for us as the > higherups are already quite leery of Sun/Oracle and the future of > Solaris. I'm calling Oracle to see if I can get some answers. The SUSE > folks recently took a big chunk of our UNIX business here and > OpenSolaris was my main tool in battling that. For us, the loss of > OpenSolaris and its support likely indicates the end of Solaris altogether. Look at http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/eosl_opensolaris.html This page is stating that OpenSolaris is supported for up to 5 years. - -- Al Slater -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (SunOS) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkuCmFcACgkQz4fTOFL/EDbiBwCcCxi0PevP1Kib/e2LmcslYFSZ m/cAoIGphDXQ/r520qa28KNz2q0Dimu6 =8xN3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
On 02/22/10 09:19, Henrik Johansen wrote: On 02/22/10 02:33 PM, Jacob Ritorto wrote: On 02/22/10 06:12, Henrik Johansen wrote: Well - once thing that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable is the fact that you no longer can buy OpenSolaris Support subscriptions. Almost every trace of it has vanished from the Sun/Oracle website and a quick call to our local Sun office confirmed that they apparently no longer sell them. I was actually very startled to see that since we're using it in production here. After digging through the web for hours, I found that OpenSolaris support is now included in Solaris support. This is a win for us because we never know if a particular box, especially a dev box, is going to remain Solaris or OpenSolaris for the duration of a support purchase and now we're free to mix and mingle. If you refer to the Solaris support web page (png attached if the mailing list allows), you'll see that OpenSolaris is now officially part of the deal and is no longer being treated as a second class support offering. That would be *very* nice indeed. I have checked the URL in your screenshot but I am getting a different result (png attached). Ohwell - I'll just have to wait and see. Confirmed your finding Henrik. This is a showstopper for us as the higherups are already quite leery of Sun/Oracle and the future of Solaris. I'm calling Oracle to see if I can get some answers. The SUSE folks recently took a big chunk of our UNIX business here and OpenSolaris was my main tool in battling that. For us, the loss of OpenSolaris and its support likely indicates the end of Solaris altogether. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
Hi Peter; ZFS is a strategic software piece for many of Sun's offerings. Sun is constantly offering several new Technologies on ZFS (without further development ZFS is laready 5 years ahead of any other filesystem) just like Dedup. Do not forget that ZFS is also part of the 7000 series. I will happy if you can post any details or evidance on why Sun/Oracle will not invest on ZFS. Best regards Mertol Mertol Ozyoney Storage Practice - Sales Manager Sun Microsystems, TR Istanbul TR Phone +902123352200 Mobile +905339310752 Fax +90212335 Email mertol.ozyo...@sun.com -Original Message- From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Peter Tribble Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:40 PM To: Eugen Leitl Cc: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: > > Oracle's silence is starting to become a bit ominous. What are > the future options for zfs, should OpenSolaris be left dead > in the water by Suracle? I have no insight into who core > zfs developers are (have any been fired by Sun even prior to > the merger?), and who's paying them. Assuming a worst case > scenario, what would be the best candidate for a fork? Nexenta? > Debian already included FreeBSD as a kernel flavor into its > fold, it seems Nexenta could be also a good candidate. > > Maybe anyone in the know could provide a short blurb on what > the state is, and what the options are. Of course they can't. If they're in the know, then they're almost certainly not in a position to talk about it in public. Asking here does not help, as I doubt if anyone from Sun/Oracle would be wise to give any response. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
On 22/02/10 09:40 PM, Peter Tribble wrote: On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: Oracle's silence is starting to become a bit ominous. What are the future options for zfs, should OpenSolaris be left dead in the water by Suracle? I have no insight into who core zfs developers are (have any been fired by Sun even prior to the merger?), and who's paying them. Assuming a worst case scenario, what would be the best candidate for a fork? Nexenta? Debian already included FreeBSD as a kernel flavor into its fold, it seems Nexenta could be also a good candidate. Maybe anyone in the know could provide a short blurb on what the state is, and what the options are. Of course they can't. If they're in the know, then they're almost certainly not in a position to talk about it in public. Asking here does not help, as I doubt if anyone from Sun/Oracle would be wise to give any response. One more thing -- please remember that it's not "Sunacle", "Suracle" or "Soracle", but "Oracle Corporation". Also (as Peter has mentioned) nobody who is likely to post to this mailing list would be authorised to comment or utter anything authoritative. You will just have to wait for the official word to be announced - as will we all. James C. McPherson -- Senior Kernel Software Engineer, Solaris Sun Microsystems http://blogs.sun.com/jmcp http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: > > Oracle's silence is starting to become a bit ominous. What are > the future options for zfs, should OpenSolaris be left dead > in the water by Suracle? I have no insight into who core > zfs developers are (have any been fired by Sun even prior to > the merger?), and who's paying them. Assuming a worst case > scenario, what would be the best candidate for a fork? Nexenta? > Debian already included FreeBSD as a kernel flavor into its > fold, it seems Nexenta could be also a good candidate. > > Maybe anyone in the know could provide a short blurb on what > the state is, and what the options are. Of course they can't. If they're in the know, then they're almost certainly not in a position to talk about it in public. Asking here does not help, as I doubt if anyone from Sun/Oracle would be wise to give any response. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
On 02/22/10 12:00 PM, Michael Ramchand wrote: I think Oracle have been quite clear about their plans for OpenSolaris. They have publicly said they plan to continue to support it and the community. They're just a little distracted right now because they are in the process of on-boarding many thousand Sun employees, and trying to get them feeling happy, comfortable and at home in their new surroundings so that they can start making money again. The silence means that you're in a queue and they forgot to turn the "hold" music on. Have patience. :-) Well - once thing that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable is the fact that you no longer can buy OpenSolaris Support subscriptions. Almost every trace of it has vanished from the Sun/Oracle website and a quick call to our local Sun office confirmed that they apparently no longer sell them. On 02/22/10 09:22, Eugen Leitl wrote: Oracle's silence is starting to become a bit ominous. What are the future options for zfs, should OpenSolaris be left dead in the water by Suracle? I have no insight into who core zfs developers are (have any been fired by Sun even prior to the merger?), and who's paying them. Assuming a worst case scenario, what would be the best candidate for a fork? Nexenta? Debian already included FreeBSD as a kernel flavor into its fold, it seems Nexenta could be also a good candidate. Maybe anyone in the know could provide a short blurb on what the state is, and what the options are. -- Med venlig hilsen / Best Regards Henrik Johansen hen...@scannet.dk Tlf. 75 53 35 00 ScanNet Group A/S ScanNet ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
I think Oracle have been quite clear about their plans for OpenSolaris. They have publicly said they plan to continue to support it and the community. They're just a little distracted right now because they are in the process of on-boarding many thousand Sun employees, and trying to get them feeling happy, comfortable and at home in their new surroundings so that they can start making money again. The silence means that you're in a queue and they forgot to turn the "hold" music on. Have patience. :-) On 02/22/10 09:22, Eugen Leitl wrote: Oracle's silence is starting to become a bit ominous. What are the future options for zfs, should OpenSolaris be left dead in the water by Suracle? I have no insight into who core zfs developers are (have any been fired by Sun even prior to the merger?), and who's paying them. Assuming a worst case scenario, what would be the best candidate for a fork? Nexenta? Debian already included FreeBSD as a kernel flavor into its fold, it seems Nexenta could be also a good candidate. Maybe anyone in the know could provide a short blurb on what the state is, and what the options are. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
Eugen Leitl wrote: Oracle's silence is starting to become a bit ominous. What are the future options for zfs, should OpenSolaris be left dead in the water by Suracle? I have no insight into who core zfs developers are (have any been fired by Sun even prior to the merger?), and who's paying them. Assuming a worst case scenario, what would be the best candidate for a fork? Nexenta? Debian already included FreeBSD as a kernel flavor into its fold, it seems Nexenta could be also a good candidate. Maybe anyone in the know could provide a short blurb on what the state is, and what the options are. Without saying anything negative about Nexenta I would strongly recommend you go try to send a single patch to their equivalent of onnv-gate before recommending it as any sort of replacement for OpenSolaris. Generally, I think the few open source engineers who actually work with the code are taking a wait-n-see approach. If doom-n-gloom will happen there is nothing we can do to stop it and might as well enjoy the free ride while it's there. Sending patches and encouraging the open source model for OpenSolaris directly is probably the best way to convince Oracle it makes business sense to maintain things as they are. ./C ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
[zfs-discuss] future of OpenSolaris
Oracle's silence is starting to become a bit ominous. What are the future options for zfs, should OpenSolaris be left dead in the water by Suracle? I have no insight into who core zfs developers are (have any been fired by Sun even prior to the merger?), and who's paying them. Assuming a worst case scenario, what would be the best candidate for a fork? Nexenta? Debian already included FreeBSD as a kernel flavor into its fold, it seems Nexenta could be also a good candidate. Maybe anyone in the know could provide a short blurb on what the state is, and what the options are. -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
