On Mon, May 13, 2024, at 21:56, hiro wrote:
> citation needed
https://sosenterprise.sd.gov/BusinessServices/Business/FictitiousDetail.aspx?CN=078243101203005056228191044241171252181195229085
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Yes, that is curious.
On Mon, May 13, 2024, at 22:59, G B wrote:
> Curiously, I searched for Nantalala Systems and found an https link to
> NANTAHALA SYSTEMS. *BEWARE: SEEMS TO BE BOGUS*
> Under "store" they list two workstations they sell, both listed as
> "sold out" that are
>
>
> has an active community all working on the same fork. The most eye
> opening thing about this whole long exchange is that the old Plan9
> people are largely working alone on private forks.
apart from the ones who moved to plan9port on mac os.
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On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 5:56 PM ibrahim via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 4:39 PM, Jacob Moody wrote:
>
> Fine my dude, you don't have to call us Plan 9, you don't have to want to use
> our code. However I ask that you be mindful in how you talk to new users and
Suggesting ways to try out a Plan9 system is not a hypothetical for
me. I put myself out there doing videos demonstrating Plan9 systems,
and so I get questions all the time.
Everyone has access to amd64 machines. The used market is flooded
with retired quad core amd64 Dell and Lenovo office desk
On Mon, 13 May 2024 11:56:20 -0400
"ibrahim via 9fans" <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
> I'm wondering why you don't adjust it so that 9front can also be run there.
Because 9vx is a hacky dead end; it fundamentally
only runs (and can only run) on 32-bit x86. It
works because of a quirk of 32-bit x86 add
On 5/13/24 10:56, ibrahim via 9fans wrote:
>
> On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 4:39 PM, Jacob Moody wrote:
>> Fine my dude, you don't have to call us Plan 9, you don't have to want to
>> use our code. However I ask that you be mindful in how you talk to new users
>> and don't assume that they have th
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 4:39 PM, Jacob Moody wrote:
> Fine my dude, you don't have to call us Plan 9, you don't have to want to use
> our code. However I ask that you be mindful in how you talk to new users and
> don't assume that they
have this same level of care for authenticity and "pure"
> As others have pointed out I think an "official" classification is of little
> pragmatic benefit, but it would be nice
> to not have this tired conversation every email thread. Of course I have
> reason to believe that even if the p9f were
> to recognize 9front as being a "Plan 9" it still woul
Jacob Moody:
> I'm very glad we were able to communicate this and thank you for taking
> the time to talk about this here in this thread.
And thanks to you for pointing me to the GTX 4090 and https://crack.sh
Both real eye openers.
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On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 4:39 PM, Jacob Moody wrote:
> Are you interested in sharing code between your fork and us? If you have no
> intention of making your fork freely available then I don't think
there is really much of a point in having some sort of compatibility layer.
Of course I am inter
On 5/13/24 04:22, ibrahim via 9fans wrote:
>> I would make a big difference between what plan 9 is and what the licenses
>> are. Software doesn't care about licenses. People do (and they should!).
>>
>> So what is plan 9 even? Can we compare it to UNIX™ or unix or posix? Who
>> knows...
>>
>> I g
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 4:32 PM, ori wrote:
> it's a sad system that can't even host its own sources.
If you are running a network for your work there is nothing sad about placing
services on different OS'es. I'm using fossil-scm for about one decade had
never problems it has nearly zero admi
Quoth Jacob Moody :
> If there were a couple of open source Plan 9 forks that each saw
> active development and we were having issues with keeping the source
> code ported between them sure I could see this as a reason to do
> that. We have however never found that the source code proved much of
On 5/13/24 06:56, ibrahim via 9fans wrote:
> On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 1:11 PM, hiro wrote:
>> i mean contributing to the plan9 team. i don't share in your discrimination
>> of 9front vs. non9front code. i bet if all of us can be gainfully employed
>> to work on "real plan9" we can all stop cont
Quoth ibrahim via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>:
> On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 4:01 PM, hiro wrote:
> > did you ever hear of the git
> implementation that ori has implemented?
>
> It was placed on the latest 9legacy CD and I'm not needing/using it. I'm
> using fossil-scm which replaced cvs for me. Fossi
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 4:01 PM, hiro wrote:
> did you ever hear of the git
implementation that ori has implemented?
It was placed on the latest 9legacy CD and I'm not needing/using it. I'm using
fossil-scm which replaced cvs for me. Fossil is running on a linux machine in
my network and is r
> My point was only about the advantage of p9sk3 over p9sk1, not to
> compare it with anything else. The intent was to counter the implication
> that p9sk1 is terrible and completely broken, by suggesting that the
One error in our naming is that it might imply dp9ik completely replaced p9sk1.
quic
> If we want to share contributions between forks we need a compatibility layer
> if we don't want to we don't have to.
adding more compatibility layers doesn't generally makes sharing of
contributions easier.
the more forks diverge the harder it will be, no matter how many
layers you add. unless
Curiously, I searched for Nantalala Systems and found an https link to
NANTAHALA SYSTEMS. *BEWARE: SEEMS TO BE BOGUS*
Under "store" they list two workstations they sell, both listed as "sold out"
that are
- OS: FreeBSD with ᴁBSD customizations
Under ᴁOS (aka ᴁ9) installation me
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 3:35 PM, G B wrote:
> Then you are still driving a Benz Patent-Motorwagen built in 1885, which is
> regarded as the first practical modern automobile instead of driving
> something newer like a Mercedes Benz S-Class or Lexus or Acura since these
> newer automobiles are
On 5/13/24 05:18, Richard Miller wrote:
> Jacob and Ori, thank you for filling in some more details. Without
> the specifics I had been making some wrong assumptions about where
> the exact threat was.
>
> I think I now have a clearer picture:
>
> It's not particularly p9sk1 which is vulnerable,
"I respect your fork 9front but I won't and can't use it. 9front isn't plan9
from my perspective."
Then you are still driving a Benz Patent-Motorwagen built in 1885, which is
regarded as the first practical modern automobile instead of driving something
newer like a Mercedes Benz S-Class or Lex
me:
>> (OK, I know that's delusional because I've installed go. But maybe
>> not for much longer, as google seems determined to introduce python3
>> as a dependency.)
Charles Forsyth:
> wat!??
citation:
https://github.com/golang/go/issues/62025
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>> (OK, I know that's delusional because I've installed go. But maybe
>> not for much longer, as google seems determined to introduce python3
>> as a dependency.)
>
> wat!??
The Go team is willing to replace the CI builders written in Go by the
Chromium builders, which are written in Python 3.
So
citation needed
On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 1:58 PM wrote:
>
> On Mon, May 13, 2024, at 18:38, hiro wrote:
> > how did you find out about this company, i never saw it mentioned
> > anywhere before?
>
> I don't spend my time trolling 9fans. ;-)
>
> Vic
--
9fa
>
> (OK, I know that's delusional because I've installed go. But maybe
> not for much longer, as google seems determined to introduce python3
> as a dependency.)
wat!??
On Mon, 13 May 2024 at 13:48, Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote:
> cro...@gmail.com:
> > As for the proposed strawman
cro...@gmail.com:
> As for the proposed strawman `p9sk3`, I fail to see what advantage
> that would have over dp9ik
My point was only about the advantage of p9sk3 over p9sk1, not to
compare it with anything else. The intent was to counter the implication
that p9sk1 is terrible and completely broke
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 1:26 PM, hiro wrote:
> at this point all you're doing is speculation at best, it's verbose
and spammy, and full of untruths. I do not welcome it, please stop
generating noise.
You don't have to read nor to reply to my posts. The amount of noise you create
exceeds mine b
On Mon, May 13, 2024, at 18:38, hiro wrote:
> how did you find out about this company, i never saw it mentioned
> anywhere before?
I don't spend my time trolling 9fans. ;-)
Vic
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On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 1:11 PM, hiro wrote:
> i mean contributing to the plan9 team. i don't share in your
discrimination of 9front vs. non9front code.
i bet if all of us can be gainfully employed to work on "real plan9"
we can all stop contributing to 9front. please enlighten me who my
future
me:
>> I try to take a
>> minimum-intervention approach ...
cro...@gmail.com:
> Forgive my saying it, Richard, but I think this is a somewhat overly
> staid view of things.
You're welcome to say it. My minimalist attitude amounts to a religion,
and therefore I don't need to justify it ☺. I know I
ibrahim you're further inventing misleading terms and definitions that
contribute nothing useful to any reader.
the "means of porting" is something that you have to go and invest the
work into, that's it. it's time, sweat, work. technology cannot help
you much with this, renaming the forks also cha
> I personally prefer to call my fork based on plan9. I didn't write or invent
> plan9. Nor is my version a replacement or a continuation of plan9 it is fork
> based on plan9.
can you please share it with us? i couldn't find a plan9 distribution
named "based on plan9" in my google assistant.
>
On Mon, 13 May 2024 06:52:37 -0400, "ibrahim via 9fans" <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
>
> This was an example and I didn't find the original licenses from freetype in
> the folder or in the code. Perhaps they got lost while porting this code to
> 9front.
Indeed, it would be strange to find them, gi
> Note that 9front never claimed to be a continuation, but a fork. The people
> who desperately cry for a continuation of plan 9 either claim 9front as a
> continuation, or explicitly not.
yeah, I did, but that's just me. for me 9front is the perfect
continuation of plan9, both in code and in sp
i mean contributing to the plan9 team. i don't share in your
discrimination of 9front vs. non9front code.
i bet if all of us can be gainfully employed to work on "real plan9"
we can all stop contributing to 9front. please enlighten me who my
future coworkers might be. who else is going to join the
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 12:40 PM, sirjofri wrote:
> For me, it's "all plan9 systems", which includes belllabs plan9, 9legacy,
> 9front and so on. That's one of the reasons I name 9front "a plan9 system",
> not "the plan9 system", because there are a few different distributions/forks.
The reas
> Have a look at authsrv(6) in the manual. The authenticator sends a
> pair of tickets to the client, one encrypted with the client's own
> key and one encrypted with the server's key. That's what allows
> both the client and server to authenticate each other.
i stand corrected. also i confused cp
> if you notice missing copyright messages: please send a patch. i have
no clue what is required, but if you represent freetype or truetype or
can imagine their legal requirements, please help us out there. it
will be highly appreciated. btw, i hear about this for the first time.
This was an examp
> So, if you have an authentication service exposed to the ipv4
> internet (or to the ipv6 internet with a findable address), and
> your authid or a known or guessable userid has a weak enough
> password to succumb to a dictionary search, it's probably right
> to say that a random attacker could ma
> namespaces. A few of the commands have changed, like rimport and rcpu
> , instead of import and cpu.
and just in case some readers might not know, since this topic came up:
the reason why it's not called import and cpu is explicitly for
backwards(4th ed./legacy/other forks) comaptibility.
person
13.05.2024 12:12:49 ibrahim via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>:
> On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 11:57 AM, sirjofri wrote:
>> So, you could say, plan 9 from bell labs is the last released version, 4th
>> edition. The others (9legacy, 9front, ...) are also plan 9, just not plan 9
>> from bell labs.
>
> I pe
23h...@gmail.com:
> ... the server and client keys are the
> same in p9sk1 as far as i understood. i would welcome public/private
> key system though (is that what you were thinking of when separating
> "server key" and "client key". that would add yet another set of
> features that are currently m
> I was trying to communicate that for the purposes of using hardware made this
> millennia (as any "professional" would do), 9front clearly has better code
> for doing so.
> I trust that the licensing in 9front has been handled correctly.
are you trying to imply 9front wouldn't have better code
Jacob and Ori, thank you for filling in some more details. Without
the specifics I had been making some wrong assumptions about where
the exact threat was.
I think I now have a clearer picture:
It's not particularly p9sk1 which is vulnerable, but the protocol
for ticket request / response, which
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 11:57 AM, sirjofri wrote:
> So, you could say, plan 9 from bell labs is the last released version, 4th
> edition. The others (9legacy, 9front, ...) are also plan 9, just not plan 9
> from bell labs.
I personally prefer to call my fork based on plan9. I didn't write or
On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 5:53 AM ibrahim via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
...
> The reasoning is simple : p9f owns the rights for the final release and Nokia
> has made this release available under a MIT license. Every one who uses plan9
> not only to toy around or his/her personal use but als
So, with that definition, the system described in the paper "Plan 9 from bell
labs" is not plan9, because it describes any system that uses the same concepts?
So, plan9 is like UNIX™ and there's no such thing as a concept about plan 9?
Note that 9front never claimed to be a continuation, but a f
On Mon, May 13, 2024, at 18:22, ibrahim wrote:
...
> plan9 is simply the final release made by bell labs and now owned by
> p9f. Thats not my interpretation this is a fact. Everything beyond that
> point is a fork based on plan9.
>
> Everyone is allowed to derive his/her work from this provided
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 11:39 AM, hiro wrote:
> are you contributing the team? and paying the team?
If you asked me. I don't use 9front or any of your contributions why should I
pay for or contribute to your team ?
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are you contributing the team? and paying the team?
On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 2:22 AM wrote:
>
> The complexity of communication in this medium often necessitates detailed
> discussions. You highlighted the need for additional personnel to manage the
> workload (e.g. do the work). From my persp
how did you find out about this company, i never saw it mentioned
anywhere before?
On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 10:43 AM wrote:
>
> Thank you, Sirjofri, nice idea.
>
> There are two private U.S. companies that are investing, developing, and
> using a closed source Plan 9 distribution called ᴁOS (aka
> I would make a big difference between what plan 9 is and what the licenses
> are. Software doesn't care about licenses. People do (and they should!).
>
> So what is plan 9 even? Can we compare it to UNIX™ or unix or posix? Who
> knows...
>
> I guess I could say a lot more about that topic, bu
Thank you, Sirjofri, nice idea.
There are two private U.S. companies that are investing, developing, and using
a closed source Plan 9 distribution called ᴁOS (aka ᴁ9). The companies have
been in existence since 2020.
Nantahala Holdings, LLC
Nantahala Operations, LLC (dba Nantahala Systems)
Hey all,
Just about one topic mentioned by ibrahim:
You mentioned that 9front can't be plan 9 in your perspective because of this
licensing and the "origin" of the licensing.
> 9front isn't plan9 from my perspective. Plan 9 is the final release with
> patches for the files from sources I can b
> I don't want to depend on anything. Your method is just adding other
> dependencies to ghostscript if you start with ps, and other
> dependencies, if not ghostscript, including C++ code that is inability
> to port on Plan9, if you use pdf.
>
I don't have any dependences remaining you misinterpr
On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 7:17 PM clinton wrote:
>
> If I were completely naive to actually running plan9 but with many clues
> about other operating systems and hardware, would it be better for me to
> install 9legacy on some mildly obsolescent but still quite serviceable and
> reliable hardwar
On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 03:27:16AM -0400, ibrahim via 9fans wrote:
> > For the ghostscript thing, and for the record (noting that, in this
> > area, I have put my code-money where my mouth is):
> >
> > I too want to get rid of Ghostscript. The path adopted is the
> > TeX/METAFONT way with the foll
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 7:33 AM, ron minnich wrote:
> So, Ibrahim, I can not agree with your statement here.
I missed that they combined LPL licensed code instead of combining GPL licensed
one. Thanks for the insides and sorry for the late response.
-
> For the ghostscript thing, and for the record (noting that, in this
> area, I have put my code-money where my mouth is):
>
> I too want to get rid of Ghostscript. The path adopted is the
> TeX/METAFONT way with the following:
>
> - A PostScript interpreter can be, functionnally, divided in two
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