From: Dr. Matthias Heger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The problem of consciousness is not only a hard problem because of
unknown
mechanisms in the brain but it is a problem of finding the DEFINITION of
necessary conditions for consciousness.
I think, consciousness without intelligence is not
From: Dr. Matthias Heger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
For general intelligence some components and sub-components of
consciousness
need to be there and some don't. And some could be replaced with a human
operator as in an augmentation-like system. Also some components could
be
designed
On Saturday 31 May 2008 10:23:15 pm, Matt Mahoney wrote:
Unfortunately AI will make CAPTCHAs useless against spammers. We will need
to figure out other methods. I expect that when we have AI, most of the
world's computing power is going to be directed at attacking other computers
and
From: Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unfortunately AI will make CAPTCHAs useless against spammers. We will
need to figure out other methods. I expect that when we have AI, most
of the world's computing power is going to be directed at attacking
other computers and defending against
From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You are - if I've understood you - talking about the machinery and
programming that produce and help to process the movie of
consciousness.
I'm not in any way denying all that or its complexity. But the first
thing
is to define and model
From: Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- On Sun, 6/1/08, John G. Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
AI has a long way to go to thwart CAPTCHAs altogether.
There are math CAPTCHAs (MAPTCHAs), 3-D CAPTCHAs, image rec CAPTCHAs,
audio and I can think
of some that are quite difficult for
--- On Sun, 6/1/08, John G. Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK How about this. A CAPTCHA that combines human audio and
visual illusion that evokes a realtime reaction only in a conscious
physical human. Can audio visual illusion be used as a test for
consciousness? Could it be used to evoke a
From: Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- On Sun, 6/1/08, John G. Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK How about this. A CAPTCHA that combines human audio and
visual illusion that evokes a realtime reaction only in a conscious
physical human. Can audio visual illusion be used as a test
From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You guys are seriously irritating me.
You are talking such rubbish. But it's collective rubbish - the
collective *non-sense* of AI. And it occurs partly because our culture
doesn't offer a simple definition of consciousness. So let me have a
From: Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
What many people call consciousness is qualia, that which distinguishes
you from a philosophical zombie, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-zombie
There is no test for consciousness in this sense, but humans universally
believe that they are
John, The reason why people are thinking about all this stuff in terms of
maths is
because it is not all just fluffy philosophizing you have to have at least
minimalistic math models in order to build software. So when you say
iTheathre or iMovie I'm thinking bits per send, compression, color
--- On Sat, 5/31/08, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But in future, there could be impostor agents that act like
they have humanlike subjective experience but don't ... and we
could uncover them by analyzing their internals...
What internal properties of a Turing machine distinguish one
From: Ben Goertzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If by conscious you mean having a humanlike subjective experience,
I suppose that in future we will infer this about intelligent agents
via a combination of observation of their behavior, and inspection of
their internal construction and
From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
That's correct. The model of consciousness should be the self [brain-
body]
watching and physically interacting with the movie [that is in a sense
an
open movie - rather than on a closed screen - projected all over the
world
outside, and on the
--- On Sat, 5/31/08, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I wrote:
What internal properties of a Turing machine
distinguish one that has subjective experiences from an
equivalent machine (implementing the same function) that
only pretends to have subjective experience?
You're asking
--- On Sat, 5/31/08, John G. Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I don't believe you are conscious. I believe you
are a zombie. Prove me wrong.
I am a zombie. Prove to me that I am not. Otherwise I will
accuse you of being conscious.
Exactly my
From: Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- On Sat, 5/31/08, John G. Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I don't believe you are conscious. I believe you
are a zombie. Prove me wrong.
I am a zombie. Prove to me that I am not.
From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
you utterly refused to answer my question re: what is your model? It's
not a
hard question to start answering - i.e. either you do have some kind of
model or you don't. You simply avoided it. Again.
I have some models that I feel confident that
John:When you describe this you have to be careful how much computation your
mind
is doing and taking for granted. You make many assumptions just by looking
at the pic and saying these are signs that this man is conscious. And saying
that a handheld TV is some sort of model, ya that's making
--- On Sat, 5/31/08, John G. Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- On Sat, 5/31/08, John G. Rose
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Matt Mahoney
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I don't believe you are conscious. I believe you
are a zombie.
From: Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- John G. Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Consciousness with minimal intelligence may be easier to build than
general
intelligence. General intelligence is the one that takes the
resources.
A general consciousness algorithm, one that creates
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 6:41 PM, John G. Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How can the two terms be equivalent? Some may think that they are
inseparable, or that one cannot exist without the other, I can understand
that perspective. But there is a quantitative relationship between the two.
When
--- John G. Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Consciousness with minimal intelligence may be easier to build than
general
intelligence. General intelligence is the one that takes the resources.
A general consciousness algorithm, one that creates a consciousness in
any
environment may be simpler
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