Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

*sigh* it is sometimes difficult when people email you "off list" and they express an opinion, which should be expressed "on list" Should RPZ be defined for the sake of "interoperability" The easy answer is : No. Interoperability has limits For example: Most of us will null route abusive ro

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 15:30:02 + Richard Clayton wrote: > In message , ox writes > >The people that are actively using RPZ to "protect" their users are > >finding that it is a piss poor method and that their users are as > >compromized as any other non RPZ user pool. > > that's a testable hypot

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In message , ox writes >The people that are actively using RPZ to "protect" their users are >finding that it is a piss poor method and that their users are as >compromized as any other non RPZ user pool. that's a testable hypothesis -- what evidence

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

Richard, We are in agreement about despots, thank you for adding semantics and details. In order to communicate the problem, I found that it is required to argue it in terms of "post-truth" otherwise, your pov will be rejected, outright or, at best, result in very long explanations (and being cal

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In message , ox writes >The Bind software is the dominant DNS software on the planet. > >The IETF doc, relating to RPZ - is intended for Bind ops. Not really -- it's an attempt to document what Bind does in a way that will make it easier for other p

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 11:43:33 +0100 Thomas Mechtersheimer wrote: > On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 12:04:19PM +0200, ox wrote: > >[...] > > But, you neglected to add - That is is not socially acceptable to > > define protocols for defrauding people, to tell lies, commit > > deception, > > Who defines waht

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 12:04:19PM +0200, ox wrote: >[...] > But, you neglected to add - That is is not socially acceptable to > define protocols for defrauding people, to tell lies, commit deception, Who defines waht is socially acceptable? btw: most phishing pages use HTTP; HTTP is used for fra

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 06:30:32 + Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: > If you want to lodge your opposition with IETF about a potential > protocol / standard / $thing there are mechanisms to do so. However > you would need to get past your emotive arguments and focus on clear > objective issues. W

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

If you want to lodge your opposition with IETF about a potential protocol / standard / $thing there are mechanisms to do so. However you would need to get past your emotive arguments and focus on clear objective issues. What are your issues with RPZ? How are those issues presented? What is the co

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 16:43:44 + Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: > Nobody is forcing anyone to use RPZ. There are thousands of IETF > documents covering a multitude of technologies, both real and > imagined (just look at the avian carriers series). > You are missing important facts in your t

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

Nobody is forcing anyone to use RPZ. There are thousands of IETF documents covering a multitude of technologies, both real and imagined (just look at the avian carriers series). Personally I used to have issues with the concept of RPZ when it was first raised years ago, but my views have chan

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 16:17:51 +0530 Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > My late grandmother said that people who are jaundiced think the > whole world is yellow. > > Andre – we just aren’t engaging in post truth as much as that you > need to cure yourself of this jaundice (or maybe step over into the

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

My late grandmother said that people who are jaundiced think the whole world is yellow. Andre – we just aren’t engaging in post truth as much as that you need to cure yourself of this jaundice (or maybe step over into the real world from an alternate universe) --srs On 05/01/17, 3:34 PM, "ant

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 22:37:36 +1300 Mark Foster wrote: > Replying against my better judgement, as Andre appears to be Trolling > for all he's worth. > But on the off chance... > It seems, every time in post-truth, when positions are indefensible, the name calling starts? Calling me messianic, a

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

Replying against my better judgement, as Andre appears to be Trolling for all he's worth. But on the off chance... On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:32 PM, ox wrote: > On Tue, 03 Jan 2017 09:42:38 -0800 > "Luis E. Muñoz" wrote: > > > On 3 Jan 2017, at 2:30, ox wrote: > > > When it becomes a "STANDARD" (

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

On Tue, 03 Jan 2017 09:42:38 -0800 "Luis E. Muñoz" wrote: > On 3 Jan 2017, at 2:30, ox wrote: > > When it becomes a "STANDARD" (ACCEPTABLE) and nefarious behavior is > > suddenly "the way things work" - then this is of serious concern. > > You seem to be assigning intent to a tool. A hammer in t

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

On 3 Jan 2017, at 2:30, ox wrote: When it becomes a "STANDARD" (ACCEPTABLE) and nefarious behavior is suddenly "the way things work" - then this is of serious concern. You seem to be assigning intent to a tool. A hammer in the hands of an artist can produce a beautiful form of art while the sa

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 09:31:37 + Rob Evans wrote: > >> The presumed draft you're unhappy about > >> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vixie-dns-rpz/) is > >> informational. It is not a standard. > > not yet a standard. operational word, I guess, is yet. so there is > > still time to create

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

Hi, The presumed draft you're unhappy about (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vixie-dns-rpz/) is informational. It is not a standard. not yet a standard. operational word, I guess, is yet. so there is still time to create awareness and to speak out. More than that, it hasn't yet been a

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 23:05:07 -0800 David Conrad wrote: > Andre, > On Jan 3, 2017, at 10:43 PM, ox wrote: > >> On Jan 3, 2017, at 9:57 PM, ox wrote: > >>> When respected Internet Engineers and organizations develop > >>> standards for Internet software that completely ignores ethics, > >>> moralit

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

Andre, On Jan 3, 2017, at 10:43 PM, ox wrote: >> On Jan 3, 2017, at 9:57 PM, ox wrote: >>> When respected Internet Engineers and organizations develop >>> standards for Internet software that completely ignores ethics, >>> morality, honesty and is pale and anemic in the truth department? >> >>

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 22:18:00 -0800 David Conrad wrote: > Andre, > On Jan 3, 2017, at 9:57 PM, ox wrote: > > When respected Internet Engineers and organizations develop > > standards for Internet software that completely ignores ethics, > > morality, honesty and is pale and anemic in the truth depa

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

Andre, On Jan 3, 2017, at 9:57 PM, ox wrote: > When respected Internet Engineers and organizations develop standards > for Internet software that completely ignores ethics, morality, > honesty and is pale and anemic in the truth department? You've developed quite the messianic complex here. > I

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

Hmm, that was not the objective. When respected Internet Engineers and organizations develop standards for Internet software that completely ignores ethics, morality, honesty and is pale and anemic in the truth department? Then, further, when these standards will serve to enslave us in the futu

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

Yes – I can clearly see that in this screed, post truth, facts not mattering as long as there is spin and such. You are bashing tech when you should be targeting its misuse. --srs On 04/01/17, 10:30 AM, "ox" wrote: Hello Suresh, Whether this wg makes any difference, or not, is co

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

Hello Suresh, Whether this wg makes any difference, or not, is completely up to each and every one of us. It is Simon's choice to simply say that the fact that the Internet Standards promote fraud, is "my position" We live in a post-truth era. Facts do not matter so much anymore if the spin is

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

And that blinkered attitude, ladies and gentlemen, is an example why this wg won't ever achieve anything much at all --srs > On 03-Jan-2017, at 6:44 PM, Simon Forster wrote: > > Andre > > Your rhetoric makes it quite clear that you have taken a position and will > stick to it. That’s fine. W

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

Andre Your rhetoric makes it quite clear that you have taken a position and will stick to it. That’s fine. We’ll just have to agree to disagree. All the best Simon > On 3 Jan 2017, at 10:30, ox wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 10:07:36 + > Simon Forster wrote: >> Hello Andre >> > Hello Si

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 10:07:36 + Simon Forster wrote: > Hello Andre > Hello Simon, > An interesting take on a mechanism that’s been available for close to > 7 years now And, from the first DNS servers there has been people that has resolved example.com to whatever IP they choose... so what? M

Re: [anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

Hello Andre An interesting take on a mechanism that’s been available for close to 7 years now >. Largely I believe you’re on the wrong track with your post — at pretty much

[anti-abuse-wg] DNS Abuse, Abuse of Privacy & Legitimizing Criminal Activity

Hello, I wish everyone a prosperous & productive 2017 I wish to cast light on an abuse issue that has the potential to effect, affect and impact the entire Internet As among the proponents of this abuse are certain Government Security Agencies and many other powerful forces, I beg with you to at