This is getting wholly unproductive. Ratios are dead on the doir step. I
tack up the assignment as anchor and its 100% utilized ratio wise. Already
works this way as I hope I explained today.
I suggest we finally dump this proposal. Instead, please start over
(new) and focus on out of region "req
> -Original Message-
> "How do we allow ARIN members to use ARIN space globally without
> restrictions, but prevent out of region organizations from becoming ARIN
> members for the purpose of acquiring ARIN resources to be used entirely
> outside the ARIN region?"
This issue is addressed
Bill
> -Original Message-
>
> 1. Permitted use of addresses outregion could subject ARIN to the legal
> jurisdiction in the myriad localities where the addresses are used. Dealing
> with that could be super expensive and could distract and draw resources
> away from ARIN's core function:
On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Andrew Dul wrote:
> Out of region use of IPv4, IPv6, or ASNs are valid justification for
> additional number resources if the applicant is currently using at least the
> equivalent of a /22 of IPv4, /44 of IPv6, or 1 ASN within the ARIN service
> region, respective
On Tue, 14 Apr 2015, Andrew Dul wrote:
Here is a suggested addition to the draft policy's first paragraph in an
attempt to alleviate some of the issues raised by the staff & legal
assessment by increasing the nexus requirement slightly.
Out of region use of IPv4, IPv6, or ASNs are valid just
Here is a suggested addition to the draft policy's first paragraph in an
attempt to alleviate some of the issues raised by the staff & legal
assessment by increasing the nexus requirement slightly.
Out of region use of IPv4, IPv6, or ASNs are valid justification for
additional number resource
What he (Tony Hain) said!
Anyway, by the time 2014-1 gets implemented, the ARIN IPv4 free pool would be
depleted, and since most of the potential abuses of or questionable demand for
out of region use are motivated by ARIN's having the last free pool, I believe
the gaming argument is moot in a
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
So, if I'm a German corporation and I don't like RIPE's rules, I simply
set up a shell corporation in the US and get my addresses from ARIN,
then use them in Germany anyway? That doesn't sound right.
But the flip side of that is, I'm a US corporation
> On Feb 25, 2015, at 19:04, John Curran wrote:
>
> As I understand the origin of draft policy 2014-1, it would be the latter.
> The original intent was to clarify the circumstances under which ARIN should
> issue space to service providers who operate principally outside the ARIN
> region
On Feb 25, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Tony Hain wrote:
> ...
> Back up and figure out what problem is being solved. The primary reason
> RIR's became possessive about their territory was "absurd protection of
> their precious IPv4 allocations". Rewind to the pre-RIR timeframe, and
> allocations were glob
> -Original Message-
> From: arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net] On
> Behalf Of Jon Lewis
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 2:32 PM
> To: Milton L Mueller
> Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
>
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015, Milton L Mueller wrote:
Jon
Yes, it's clear that you support the intent of 2014-1, which is to
reconcile actual staff practice with an approved policy. But it also
sounds like you think our threshold requirement can be gamed? The
"speaking Romanian" issue (or more likely
On Feb 25, 2015, at 4:50 PM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
> Probably do what the rest of us do? Anchor the allocated prefix in "the
> region" and call it a day.
>
> This seems seriously anti competitive, hence my own desire for a sixth,
> Depository?, RIR.
> If we had one or even many this would not
So, if I'm a German corporation and I don't like RIPE's rules, I simply set up
a shell corporation in the US and get my addresses from ARIN, then use them in
Germany anyway? That doesn't sound right.
MM: There are these things called multinational corporations with global
networks. Ever hear
esday, February 25, 2015 1:10 PM
>> To: Martin Hannigan
>> Cc: Milton L Mueller; arin-ppml@arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
>>
>> On Wed, 22 Oct 2014, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>>
>>>>> resources stating that this
the subject of fierce debates. Do
you have specific suggestions for how we could fix this?
--MM
> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Lewis [mailto:jle...@lewis.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 1:10 PM
> To: Martin Hannigan
> Cc: Milton L Mueller; arin-ppml@arin.net
>
On 25-Feb-15 12:10, Jon Lewis wrote:
> I wasn't prepared to argue about either of these "policies"
> yesterday, but after searching the NRPM, I can't find any basis for
> either of them. So, I called the helpdesk to double-check / ask
> where in the NRPM I could find these "policies". I was told
On Feb 25, 2015, at 1:10 PM, Jon Lewis wrote:
>
> I wasn't prepared to argue about either of these "policies" yesterday, but
> after searching the NRPM, I can't find any basis for either of them. So, I
> called the helpdesk to double-check / ask where in the NRPM I could find
> these "policie
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014, Martin Hannigan wrote:
resources stating that this is a no op as well: already using numbers in
other regions and even ARIN (Curran) chimed in and said that it wasn't
a problem.
I think you're interpretation of the situation is WAY out of line with
the reality. Staff wan
t; Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
>
> On 14-12-15 12:34 PM, Steven Ryerse wrote:
> > I would point out that very clearly, anyone who wanted a /24 got one from
> Jon, just by requesting one. I was one of the many folks who requested and
> received a /24. I al
399.9099- Office
>
> ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
> Conquering Complex Networks℠
>
> From: arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net>
> [mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net>] On
> Behalf Of Kevin Kargel
> Sent
: Eclipse Networks Logo_small.png]℠ Eclipse Networks,
Inc.
Conquering Complex Networks℠
From: Owen DeLong [mailto:o...@delong.com]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 5:14 PM
To: Steven Ryerse
Cc: Kevin Kargel; arin-ppml@arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
We have always had
ehalf Of Kevin Kargel
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 1:12 PM
> To: arin-ppml@arin.net
> Subject: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
>
>
> The internet is a different place now and things change and evolve over time.
> If a modern day entrepreneur needed IP space they
]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 1:29 PM
To: 'Jo Rhett'; Steven Ryerse
Cc: 'arin-ppml@arin.net'
Subject: RE: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
Oops, seems I forgot to add the link
https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2014_1.html
> -Original Message-
> Fro
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Adam Thompson
wrote:
>
>
> *From:* arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net
> ] *On Behalf Of *Martin Hannigan
>
> "Needs testing" isn't actually the problem IMHO. Its not unrealistic to
> ask what someone is going to use the addresses for.
*From:* arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net]
*On Behalf Of *Martin Hannigan
"Needs testing" isn't actually the problem IMHO. Its not unrealistic
to ask what someone is going to use the addresses for. Over the last
five years, policy ("the problem") has become disconn
[mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net] On Behalf
Of Martin Hannigan
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 1:41 PM
To: Kevin Kargel
Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
"Needs testing" isn't actually the problem IMHO. Its not unrealistic to ask
what someone is g
Thompson [mailto:athom...@athompso.net]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 2:28 PM
To: Steven Ryerse; John Curran
Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
On 14-12-15 12:34 PM, Steven Ryerse wrote:
> I would point out that very clearly, anyone who wanted a /24 got one f
On 14-12-15 12:34 PM, Steven Ryerse wrote:
I would point out that very clearly, anyone who wanted a /24 got one from Jon,
just by requesting one. I was one of the many folks who requested and received
a /24. I also requested 4 consecutive /24's (Class C's) for a larger customer
and received t
...@arin.net] On Behalf
Of Kevin Kargel
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 1:12 PM
To: arin-ppml@arin.net
Subject: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
The internet is a different place now and things change and evolve over time.
If a modern day entrepreneur needed IP space they would have little or no
Jobs and Wozniak were starting up IPV4 was a different animal.
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net
> ] *On Behalf Of *Steven Ryerse
> *Sent:* Monday, December 15, 2014 10:16 AM
> *To:* Bill Darte
> *Cc:* arin-ppm
n-ppml@arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
On Dec 15, 2014, at 1:17 AM, Steven Ryerse wrote:
> ...
> I find that line of thinking about as far as one can get from the spirit of
> Jon Postel and the way he went about advancing the Internet. When I read the
> original
Oops, seems I forgot to add the link
https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2014_1.html
> -Original Message-
> From: Milton L Mueller
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 1:28 PM
> To: 'Jo Rhett'; 'Steven Ryerse'
> Cc: 'arin-ppml@arin.net'
> S
specifically about 2014-1?
--MM
> -Original Message-
> From: arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-
> boun...@arin.net] On Behalf Of Jo Rhett
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:17 AM
> To: Steven Ryerse
> Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 201
[image: Description: Description: Eclipse Networks Logo_small.png]℠ Eclipse
> Networks, Inc.
>
> Conquering Complex Networks℠
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Darte [mailto:billda...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, December 15, 2014 12:30 PM
> *To:* Steven Ryerse
> *Cc:* Jo
From: Bill Darte [mailto:billda...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 6:10 AM
To: Steven Ryerse
Cc: Jo Rhett; arin-ppml@arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
Steven Ryerse said:
In my opinion this community is so caught up in making sure needs base
15, 2014 12:30 PM
To: Steven Ryerse
Cc: Jo Rhett; arin-ppml@arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
Steve said:
By that definition, I wonder if Jobs and Wozniak needed IP resources today for
their garage - could they get them? Whether you like what they did or not they
*
>
> *770.399.9099 <770.399.9099>- Office*
>
>
>
> [image: Description: Description: Eclipse Networks Logo_small.png]℠ Eclipse
> Networks, Inc.
>
> Conquering Complex Networks℠
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Darte [mailto:billda...@gmail.com]
> *Sen
: Monday, December 15, 2014 6:10 AM
To: Steven Ryerse
Cc: Jo Rhett; arin-ppml@arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
Steven Ryerse said:
In my opinion this community is so caught up in making sure needs based
policies are followed, that it has lost sight of the real mission of
On Dec 15, 2014, at 1:17 AM, Steven Ryerse wrote:
> ...
> I find that line of thinking about as far as one can get from the spirit of
> Jon Postel and the way he went about advancing the Internet. When I read the
> original Mission Statement for ARIN or even the current one, I don't see that
>
Conquering Complex Networks℠
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Jo Rhett [mailto:jrh...@netconsonance.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:17 AM
> To: Steven Ryerse
> Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
>
>
t: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:17 AM
To: Steven Ryerse
Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
On Oct 27, 2014, at 5:23 PM, Steven Ryerse wrote:
> If in the spirit of trying to prevent fraud non-fraudulent requests get
> rejected, then Arin's mission stops b
On Oct 27, 2014, at 5:23 PM, Steven Ryerse wrote:
> If in the spirit of trying to prevent fraud non-fraudulent requests get
> rejected, then Arin's mission stops being fulfilled. I think it is important
> to make sure the mission is respected first and stopping fraud second or
> third or fifth
...@arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net] On Behalf
Of Ted Mittelstaedt
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 6:09 PM
To: arin-ppml@arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
On 10/22/2014 12:49 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
-Original Message-
"ARIN reserves t
℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
Conquering Complex Networks℠
-Original Message-
From: arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net] On Behalf
Of Ted Mittelstaedt
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 6:09 PM
To: arin-ppml@arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
On 10/22/2014 12:49 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
-Original Message-
"ARIN reserves the right to request a listing of all the applicant's
number holdings in the region(s) of proposed use"
I feel it should be eliminated. As it was mentioned at the microphone
in the Baltimore meeting,
On 10/22/2014 2:38 PM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:16 PM, John Curran wrote:
On Oct 22, 2014, at 3:49 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
-Original Message-
"ARIN reserves the right to request a listing of all the applicant's
number holdings in the region(s) of propose
David,
John has already stated ARIN works closely with other RIRs to attempt
to verify if this kind of fraud is happening.
Ted
On 10/22/2014 3:08 PM, David Conrad wrote:
On Oct 22, 2014, at 2:59 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
When we are allowing out-of-region usage, there is a desire to verify
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>
>
>> -Original Message-
[ clip ]
>> Anyone care to address the points, from a technical perspective, that
>> the LEO community raised as well?
>
> You mean LEAs (law enforcement agencies)? Did you read the comments? Those
> co
OK, keep the language as it already was, then. Fine with me.
> -Original Message-
> From: John Curran [mailto:jcur...@arin.net]
> >
> > I agree with Marty here. We could eliminate that, if you all think Section
> > 12
> is enough.
>
> Milton -
>
> Note that NRPM Section 12 provides onl
On Oct 22, 2014, at 5:39 PM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>> Note that NRPM Section 12 provides only that "ARIN may review the current
>> usage
>> of any resources maintained in the ARIN database." - it would not appear that
>> this language provides ARIN the ability to request information and
>> uti
*shrug* I thought this was to allow "out of region use". Not to work
around Section 12.
Best,
-M<
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:59 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>
>> On Oct 22, 2014, at 2:38 PM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:16 PM, John Curran wrote:
>>> On Oct 22, 2014, at 3
On Oct 22, 2014, at 2:59 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
> When we are allowing out-of-region usage, there is a desire to verify
> that organizations aren’t “double-dipping” and getting numbers from
> more than one RIR for the same address need.
How's that going to work? How will ARIN know when Evil Addre
> On Oct 22, 2014, at 2:38 PM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:16 PM, John Curran wrote:
>> On Oct 22, 2014, at 3:49 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>>> -Original Message-
> "ARIN reserves the right to request a listing of all the applicant's
> number holdings
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:16 PM, John Curran wrote:
> On Oct 22, 2014, at 3:49 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>> -Original Message-
"ARIN reserves the right to request a listing of all the applicant's
number holdings in the region(s) of proposed use"
>>>
>>> I feel it should be eli
On Oct 22, 2014, at 3:49 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
> -Original Message-
>>> "ARIN reserves the right to request a listing of all the applicant's
>>> number holdings in the region(s) of proposed use"
>>
>> I feel it should be eliminated. As it was mentioned at the microphone
>> in the Ba
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>
>
>> -Original Message-
[ clip ]
>> resources stating that this is a no op as well: already using numbers in
>> other regions and even ARIN (Curran) chimed in and said that it wasn't
>> a problem.
>
> I think you're interpretat
> -Original Message-
> > "ARIN reserves the right to request a listing of all the applicant's
> > number holdings in the region(s) of proposed use"
>
> I feel it should be eliminated. As it was mentioned at the microphone
> in the Baltimore meeting, ARIN isn't consistent in applications
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:31 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> Hi Milton and All,
>
> I am concerned with the following:
>
> "ARIN reserves the right to request a listing of all the applicant's number
> holdings in the region(s) of proposed use, but this should happen only when
> there are signific
Hi Milton and All,
I am concerned with the following:
"ARIN reserves the right to request a listing of all the applicant's
number holdings in the region(s) of proposed use, but this should happen
only when there are significant reasons to suspect duplicate requests."
I feel this should b
I will reiterate my comment that /44 is too stringent and /48 should be used
instead.
Owen
On Oct 21, 2014, at 7:20 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>
> Based on feedback from NANOG, our Baltimore general meeting, and the AC
> meeting and list I have revised 2014-1 for what I hope is the last tim
.
David R Huberman
Microsoft Corporation
Principal, Global IP Addressing
From: arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net on behalf of
Milton L Mueller
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 7:20 AM
To: arin-ppml@arin.net
Subject: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
Based on
Based on feedback from NANOG, our Baltimore general meeting, and the AC meeting
and list I have revised 2014-1 for what I hope is the last time. I have updated
the Wiki and am requesting staff and legal review.
I believe the proposal is technically sound, enables fair and impartial
resource a
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