opaqueice wrote:
Robin Bowes Wrote:
It's not possible to put a man on the moon - ooops, someone did.
The difference between server and SB decoding of FLAC is audible -
oops, I don't hear it.
Not everybody can run a sub-4 minute mile either. That doesn't mean it's
not possible.
R.
opaqueice Wrote:
The difference between server and SB decoding of FLAC is audible - oops,
I don't hear it.
?
So? All it proves is that YOU didn't hear it. No more, no less.
--
P Floding
P Floding's Profile:
opaqueice Wrote:
If the difference is _so_ subtle no one can tell the difference in an
A/B test (and there's no reason for that test to be quick), why
should we think it exists? Especially in this case, where there is a
very strong reason to think there is no difference (the functioning of
I would like to use this 'firmware switcher'
(http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=26453) to see if I
can hear any differences between the audiophile approved firmware 15
and the current v48. Disregarding sound changes, what would I lose in
terms of convenience and functionality
I was under the impression it's [FW15] only 'audiophile approved'
because it causes reversed polarity. If you or someone has bypassed the
opamp this gets you back to correct polarity, which may be more
convenient than switching leads if you use other sources.
--
Skunk
Skunk Wrote:
I was under the impression it's [FW15] only 'audiophile approved'
because it causes reversed polarity.
Well yes, a change in polarity is involved but apparently there are
more changes soundwise even when that is taken into account. See
'this thread'
Can someone please confirm if you can ff and rw when the server is
decoding to WAV and streaming that to the squeezebox? Because I have
mine setup to do this and still have that capability... though it is
more of a seek [2x, 4x, 8x] than a true ff or rw.opaqueice Wrote:
I've just verified that
philodox Wrote:
Can someone please confirm if you can ff and rw when the server is
decoding to WAV and streaming that to the squeezebox? Because I have
mine setup to do this and still have that capability... though it is
more of a seek [2x, 4x, 8x] than a true ff or rw.How is that possible?
FYI... The Audio Insider, one of the U.S. Distributors of Swans, now has
the S200A in stock, for $349/pr + shipping (~$20). I just ordered a
pair!
Looks like an ultra-cool design, albeit very contemporary...
http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=256
--
sleepysurf
squeezebox2
About this debate on proof, you can't prove it's audible OR inauible,
which is all I said. You can do a proper (blind) test, get it right X
out of Y times, and that provides statistical, probabalistic evidence
for one or the other. But it obviously can never prove it either way -
even if you
opaqueice Wrote:
Did you read my previous post about this? Again, that setting does
_not_ mean the decoding is being done at the server, because if you
also have
[X] FLAC FLAC (built-in)
checked, the decoding is done on the SB. To decode on the server, make
sure the above setting
philodox Wrote:
Did you read my previous post??? I've already said that these are the
only two boxes that I have checked. Everything else is disabled.
Sorry, I missed that. Just to be sure, did you restart the track after
making the change? That seemed necessary in my case, presumably
philodox Wrote:
That part number is for a 12V 1.7A PSU. I would think that 271-1006-ND
[5V, 3A] would be a better way to go... it goes for $56.05
Mahalo for the correction.
You should look into a triple output linear, which you could use to
power your SB and replace the cheap SMPS inside
I'm so confused... by absolute phase reversal, you mean multiplying the
analogue waveform on both channels by -1, is that right? In other words
the same thing as reversing both speaker cables?
If so, what could account for an audible difference? Can the speaker
cone response be somehow
Pat - are you saying that great and accurate are mutually exclusive?
Mind you - I can think of lots of great speakers but no accurate ones
:0).
No speaker yet made is totally accurate in terms of both in-room
frequency and time response - perhaps this will always be true. Anyway,
we'd never
I've actually been thinking about a second box PSU for the Lavry, I'll
take a look at that. :)
I was listening the other day to my Squeezebox/Lavry and it was
sounding pretty etched and not nearly as smooth as I am used to... Then
I realized that they were not plugged into my power conditioner.
philodox Wrote:
Yeah... it is sort of weird. When it was streaming the FLAC and
decoding on the squeezebox fast forward and rewind acted as you woul
expect them to. Since changing the settings if you hold down the
rewind button it will go into a 2x seek, then if you hold it down again
it
Hmmm, maybe it was something else that I changed which caused the
different behaviour. I think I'm just going to have to sit down one
night and go through all the settings. :p
--
philodox
box clever, watch your system come together
crazy weather at the end of my tether
::#12427;::
heavily
yes that's right - same as reversing the speaker cables. There was a
theory that we could detect the phase polarity of the initial transient
(ie when you hit a bass drum, the skin moves out first then in as it
springs back - and that the speaker cone should move the same way so
that the initial
I own both a Condor 271-1006-ND and a Power-One HB5-3/OVP-A, they are
virtually identical.
--
Jetlag
Jetlag's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1012
View this thread:
Phil Leigh Wrote:
yes that's right - same as reversing the speaker cables. There was a
theory that we could detect the phase polarity of the initial transient
(ie when you hit a bass drum, the skin moves out first then in as it
springs back - and that the speaker cone should move the same
opaqueice Wrote:
So I would guess that relative phases between different frequencies get
totally messed up - is that wrong for some reason? If it's right, why
do people worry about phases introduced by equalizers?
Capacitors have frequency dependent phase response. That's why you
don't want
opaqueice Wrote:
Wow - I never cease to be amazed by audiophiles
It seems to me before you should worry about that, you should first
build an exact replica of the room the music was recorded in, with a
speaker with a perfectly flat response in the exact position of every
sound
opaqueice Wrote:
You yourself have done an A/B test - you've listened to both settings,
right? On the basis of your A/B test I thought you were saying before
there's a difference in sound.
Now it sounds like you're saying it depends on mood, which I certainly
agree with... but unless
Perhaps it would be useful to mention something about a systems
resolving power here as well.
In my system from 10 years ago I was not really able to resolve the
differences between my Sony MD player and my Rotel CD player.
If I were to use this system again, today, there is a good chance that
philodox Wrote:
Did you read my previous post??? I've already said that these are the
only two boxes that I have checked. Everything else is disabled.
I have the following checked doesn't actually automatically imply
that everything else is unchecked.
--
P Floding
Now, just for the sake of completeness, I would like to note that there
is one factor that has not been brought up here, and that is the
following: If there is some amount of DC offset in the signal. I
imagine that is a possibility, and most likely, there is always some DC
offset. If the speaker
well DC offset at the output stage could introduce a non-linearity
because the electrical and mechanical null-crossing points are
different...
You really don't want noticeable (ie more than a few tens of millivots)
of DC across your speaker coils.
--
Phil Leigh
Phil Leigh wrote:
Pat - are you saying that great and accurate are mutually exclusive?
Well, maybe not mutually exclusive, but they are very much different
dimensions. In more obvious terms, recording engineers
care a lot about accuracy, They need to know what is in the sound.
Audiophiles
Phil Leigh Wrote:
Chortle, chortle - so some people still think there is anything more
than a 50% chance that absolute phase was preserved through the
recording/manufacturing chain?
There's a hell of a lot of outboard studio gear (and desks) that are
inverting...
I possess 1 CD (out of
opaqueice wrote:
So I would guess that relative phases between different frequencies get
totally messed up - is that wrong for some reason? If it's right, why
do people worry about phases introduced by equalizers?
Equalizers typically totally mangle frequency dependant phase.
Really, really
pfarrell Wrote:
I've seen people argue that the first half cycle of a bass drum kick
should come towards the listener to be correct unless you want
it to sound like it does to the drummer.
To me, that argument only makes sense if you think you can hear direct
current. Last I heard, *sound*
ezkcdude Wrote:
You can't hear phase.
I think I agree it's very unlikely you could hear an absolute phase in
music. But is it totally obvious you can never hear it?
Imagine the following - suppose someone increases the air pressure in
the room you're in, then decreases it. Clearly you
pfarrell Wrote:
Equalizers typically totally mangle frequency dependant phase.
Really, really expensive ones do less damage than affordable ones.
Yeah - certainly the simplest equalizer I can think of (a bunch of RLC
band pass filters) will totally destroy the phases.
[QOUTE]
I believe
pfarrell Wrote:
I've seen people argue that the first half cycle of a bass drum kick
should come towards the listener to be correct unless you want
it to sound like it does to the drummer.
Even if this _is_ possible to hear, who cares? As I said before - if
you went to a live
opaqueice wrote:
Yeah - certainly the simplest equalizer I can think of (a bunch of RLC
band pass filters) will totally destroy the phases.
Right, and even fancy parametric eqs are just combinations of RLC nets.
I'm happy to accept that, but I'm asking why don't all the other elements
in
P Floding Wrote:
A/B, traditionally, implies reasonably quick switching and the rest of
the system to be unaltered (not as easy as it sounds). As I explained
before, my testing does not comply with those criteria. In fact, some of
my choices for my system, such as using TosLINK instead of
pfarrell Wrote:
I'm not following you here,
Any sound is a pressure wave. The first half cycle of a wave is going
to
cause the speaker cone to move either towards you or away from you.
The
second half cycle will, naturally, move it the other way. For a 40Hz
signal, it moves towards
ezkcdude Wrote:
You just made my point for me. You can't hear 0 Hz!
I think you're missing his point here, ekzdude - I think this is _not_
impossible in principle (although maybe in practice). See my earlier
post about pressure.
--
opaqueice
pfarrell Wrote:
You bet. That is why there is a whole branch of audiophiles who are
into
single speaker systems, i.e. http://www.lowtherloudspeakers.co.uk/
And I believe that is why quads and electrostatics sound so good to my
ears -- no crossover.
OK, that's interesting.
One of
opaqueice Wrote:
You're saying if the frequency response is flat, so is the phase
response is that the case? That would answer my question.
Frequency response can mean Amplitude vs. Frequency or Phase vs.
Frequency. One does not necessarily imply the other.
--
ezkcdude
SB3-Derek
opaqueice Wrote:
I think you're missing his point here, ekzdude - I think this is _not_
impossible in principle (although maybe in practice). See my earlier
post about pressure.
So, are we talking about listening to music or fanning ourselves (in
one direction) with our speakers?
...
Geez,
ezkcdude Wrote:
Frequency response can mean Amplitude vs. Frequency or Phase vs.
Frequency. One does not necessarily imply the other.
That's what I was asking - whether flat amplitude vs. frequency implies
flat phase vs. frequency. Before I was thinking the answer is no, but
now I'm confused
opaqueice Wrote:
That's what I was asking - whether flat amplitude vs. frequency implies
flat phase vs. frequency. Before I was thinking the answer is no, but
now I'm confused by pfarrells response.
:-). Fair enough!
Do yourself a favor, and pick up The Art of Electronics. It's not
ezkcdude Wrote:
Do yourself a favor, and pick up The Art of Electronics. It's not
about audio per se, but I guarantee it will make you think more
rationally about all that is audiophilia.
I already have a copy, thanks - and have for about 15 years :-).
--
opaqueice
opaqueice Wrote:
So far everyone that has actually tried this has discovered (to their
surprise) that they in fact can't tell the difference.
Just to be fair, I did that test with a $30 amp. I got the jolida
working again today (replaced tubes with EI el84 gold pins), which is
the system I
This is very informative:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/phase.html
First, to answer my earlier question: flat amplitude-frequency response
does NOT mean flat phase-frequency reponse; see the section titled TIME
OFFSET AUDIBILITY.
Second, phase changes by themselves are _not_ audible, according
P Floding Wrote:
I have the following checked doesn't actually automatically imply that
everything else is unchecked.No it doesn't, but in my next post after that I
replied to your
question, Did you uncheck FLAC - FLAC and WAV - FLAC? with Yep.
Sorry if that wasn't clear.
--
philodox
ezkcdude Wrote:
Frequency response can mean Amplitude vs. Frequency or Phase vs.
Frequency. One does not necessarily imply the other.
I thought I had answered that already.
--
ezkcdude
SB3-Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC-MIT Terminator 2
interconnects-Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators
hehe, I agree. Dan has done lots of filtering after the switcher and in
his opinion it is superior than any linear PSU given the cost and space
constraints.
That said, my Lavry DA10 sounds amazing when hooked up to my PS Audio
UPC-200... when it is plugged directly into the wall it just sounds
Pat - I quite agree!
(and NS10's were and are horrible - but I know exactly what you mean
about fixed references)
I've had much much more bang for my buck fixing my room sound than
upgrading my gear. I should have known this all along, because my
treated studio(s) all had a good sound, but I
opaqueice Wrote:
Can you just answer this question - do you think that if someone sat at
your slimserver and switched between server and SB FLAC decoding
randomly, making a random change whenever you requested (after as much
time as you feel you need), that you would be able to tell the
a - this started off as a nice little discussion about absolute
phase and its significance in modern society and now its got all
technical...
passive x-overs in speakers will mess up phase response big time whilst
trying to correct frequency/amplitude response. This is ONE of the
reasons
opaqueice Wrote:
Even if this _is_ possible to hear, who cares? As I said before - if
you went to a live performance and the drummer had his bass drum turned
around, would the sound quality be worse? I think that shows how
ludicrous the idea that reversing polarity can improve sound
P Floding Wrote:
If I do reliably hear a difference (and manage to pin it to the correct
setting) it would prove that there is a difference. (In my particular
setup.)
If I do not reliably hear a difference, or fail to pin it to the
correct setting, it proves nothing. (Except that I was
To my ears 6.2.2 and its included firmware restores the SB to its former
glory, gets rid of the tinny highlights and allowd me to start using
ReplayGain ahead...
So for me, this is the 'approved firmware' - anyone else agree?
--
bossanova808
Whichever change it was that made the volume scale better is where I
liked it. Past then, I haven't heard any difference at all soundwise
in firmware... but the rescaling of volume made a huge difference.
--
snarlydwarf
ezkcdude Wrote:
That's hilarious. I *dare* you to tell Dan Lavry his PSU is cheap. He'll
rip you a new one.
Why don't you send my post.
It's far from the best SMPS available. He uses bandaids after the PSU
instead of using a better suply or upgrading the on board
parts.
Hi all. I have my (favorite new gadget) SB3 in my living room and am
looking to install a pair of Polk Audio RC85i in-wall speakers with a
wall-mounted volume knob. I'm looking for recommendations for an amp
that would be suitable in the $600 range.
I'd like either a very small-profile amp
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