Re: Bug Resilience Program of German Sovereign Tech Fund

2024-09-11 Thread Karl Berry
I received an answer from the German Sovereign Tech Fund regarding our application for their bug resilience program. Automake is on the waiting list for next year. Thanks Christoph!

Re: First draft of application to Sovereign Tech Fund

2024-07-31 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Detlef - I think Christoph has already submitted the application to the fund, in somewhat different form than the one you commented on. There are some subsequent msgs between he and I on the list. (In short, I basically agree[d] with all your comments. We probably didn't get everything right fo

Re: First draft of application to Sovereign Tech Fund

2024-07-14 Thread Karl Berry
I added your paragraph to the section "Describe why your project needs those services?" Sounds good. Can I submit the application? Yes. Time to give it a try. Thanks for the initiative. --best, karl.

Re: First draft of application to Sovereign Tech Fund

2024-07-10 Thread Karl Berry
1) It looks to me like GCC uses autoconf but not automake. Maybe change the answer to: > Where is your open source technology project being > used (describe all user bases)? GNU Automake is used by a very large number of GNU and non-GNU packages. Here are just a couple of examples: GNU coreutils

Re: improve display of filesystem timestamp resolution

2024-07-03 Thread Karl Berry
A physical entity should always be displayed with its unit. Agreed in principle, but sorry, I'm not ready to install this one. Adding a unit to the value and then removing it everywhere the value is used seems error-prone to me. How about just displaying it with the unit (somehow)? Or having

Re: improve display of whether sleep supports fractional seconds

2024-07-03 Thread Karl Berry
checking whether sleep supports fractional seconds... true is inconsistent with the rest of the GNU Build System. Namely, in configure output, results are "yes"/"no", not "true"/"false". The attached patch makes automake consistent with the rest. Thanks Bruno. I applied, plus "qu

Re: [platform-testers] automake-1.16.92 released

2024-06-30 Thread Karl Berry
ts.gnu.org/archive/html/automake/2024-06/msg00085.html +# (The actual purpose of the "$()" is unclear.) + +. test-init.sh + +cat > Makefile.am << 'END' +x: + $() +END + +$ACLOCAL +$AUTOMAKE + +: Running command: git commit \-q \-F \.\/vc\-dwim\-log\-wBh6_U \-\-auth

Re: First draft of application to Sovereign Tech Fund

2024-06-29 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Christoph and all - back on the Sovereign Tech Fund application. Here's my first cut at tweaking the wording. Thanks for doing all this. -k Draft of applications (questions are with > at the left of the line): > I acknowledge: > > All code and documentation to be supported mu

Re: automake-1.16.92 released

2024-06-29 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Dave, in case it affects a decision to release 1.17 Indeed. Thank you very much for the report (and the followup). The first question that comes to mind: are you using the same version of libtool in the various cases? --thanks again, karl.

Re: RFC: Add public macros AC_LOG_CMD and AC_LOG_FILE.

2024-06-26 Thread Karl Berry
Subject: RFC: Add public macros AC_LOG_CMD and AC_LOG_FILE. FWIW, it sounds good to me. To my mind, logging is one of the most important features of autoconf, so I'm all for macros to support it further. --thanks, karl.

Re: [platform-testers] automake-1.16.92 released

2024-06-25 Thread Karl Berry
I ran a mass rebuild on Fedora for packages that depend on automake with this version. Thank you!! Out of 1330 packages built, I found the following failures. Could be a lot worse! NetworkManager x2gokdrive xorg-x11-server Use of uninitialized value $var in string e

Re: branch master updated: lib scripts: add "(GNU Automake)" to --version output, etc.

2024-06-20 Thread Karl Berry
Why two blank lines, not just one as for the other scripts? Slip of the editor. Will fix. Thanks for the sharp eyes. -k

Re: 1.16.90 regression: configure now takes 7 seconds to start

2024-06-19 Thread Karl Berry
have to say --enable-maintainer-mode Personally I agree with you, in theory, but I think it is too big of a change to make. As I understand it. GNU package authors have their source repos and have never had to say --enable-maintainer-mode before to get their Makefiles etc. rebuilt. I don't thi

Re: 1.16.90 regression: configure now takes 7 seconds to start

2024-06-17 Thread Karl Berry
Let's look at the history. Thanks very much for all that research and explanations, Bruno. Likewise, Jacob. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-automake/2010-10/msg0.html Aha, the explanation for some of the $sleep commands scattered throughout the Automake tests! I had no idea. I

Re: 1.16.90 regression: configure now takes 7 seconds to start

2024-06-17 Thread Karl Berry
Nick> AC_CONFIG_COMMANDS_POST([cat >conftest.mk <<'EOF' configure: config.status false EOF while ${MAKE-make} -f conftest.mk >/dev/null 2>&1 do touch config.status done]) One missing element is that there is no limit, which would be a

Re: Bug Resilience Program of German Sovereign Tech Fund

2024-06-17 Thread Karl Berry
Christoph - I had one more thought about the tech fund: Automake is copyright FSF. So Neighorhoodie is going to need to sign a disclaimer or (preferably) assignment for any patches to be usable. Is there precedent in the fund for doing that? --thanks, karl.

Re: use of make in AM_SANITY_CHECK (was: improved timestamp resolution test)

2024-06-16 Thread Karl Berry
make(1) in AM_SANITY_CHECK seems to be a logic error, since the user may want to build with a different $MAKE, You're right. Crap. It never ends. In practice it probably doesn't matter, though. Although in theory one can imagine that "make" succeeds while $MAKE fails, resulting in a fals

Re: 1.16.90 regression: configure now takes 7 seconds to start

2024-06-16 Thread Karl Berry
Find here attached a revised proposed patch. Ok on the reorg, but sorry, I remain confused. This whole thing started with Mike Vapier's change in Feb 2022 (commit 720a11531): https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/automake-commit/2022-02/msg9.html As I read it now, his goal was to speed up ot

Re: Bug Resilience Program of German Sovereign Tech Fund

2024-06-15 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Christoph, All Automake release announcements since 2.13 warn about future Automake 2.0 incompatibilities. I moved that noisy warning from the top of NEWS into a separate NEWS-2.0 file a couple of releases ago. At the beginning there is a meeting between you (maybe more people,

Re: Bug Resilience Program of German Sovereign Tech Fund

2024-06-13 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Christoph, I advice everybody so seek alternatives. I'm sorry to hear it. My own personal experience (with my sysadmin hat on) is that all alternatives have been inferior. Which is, ultimately, why I choose to spend my time here. I would love to see any minor improvement, as the docum

Re: improved timestamp resolution test (was: 1.16.90 regression: configure now takes 7 seconds to start)

2024-06-13 Thread Karl Berry
Jacob, [*sigh*] You said it. About this whole thing. I rather wish this bright idea had never come to pass. It has delayed the release by months. Oh well. Still, could we use make(1) for *all* of the testing and not use `ls -t` I guess it is technically possible, but I somehow feel dou

Re: 1.16.90 regression: configure now takes 7 seconds to start

2024-06-13 Thread Karl Berry
Sorry, but I don't really understand your patch. With it, it would seem that _AM_FILESYSTEM_TIMESTAMP_RESOLUTION is only called if the build environment is not "sane", i.e., a created file is not newer than configure. Is that right? (That embedded shell construct is hard to grok.) is in _AM_FI

Re: 1.16.90 regression: configure now takes 7 seconds to start

2024-06-12 Thread Karl Berry
Does BSD ls(1) support "--time=ctime --time-style=full-iso"? BSD ls does not support any --longopts. Looking at the man page, I don't see "millisecond" or "subsecond" etc. mentioned, though I could easily be missing it. E.g., https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?ls Even if there is such an

Re: 1.16.90 regression: configure now takes 7 seconds to start

2024-06-12 Thread Karl Berry
It should save 6 seconds. Because it goes like this: - Test whether 0.01 sec works. - Test whether 0.1 sec works. - If not, set the variable to 2, because that's the worst case and it *must* work. At which places will then a 'sleep 2' be done where (if not VFAT) a

Re: 1.16.90 regression: configure now takes 7 seconds to start

2024-06-12 Thread Karl Berry
> Any other ideas? A horrible one: :) split the test so it can be performed in parallel with others -- upper half starts the sleep in the background, lower half waits for it to complete. No thanks. I can't even begin to imagine the portability and edge case problems that w

Re: 1.16.90 regression: configure now takes 7 seconds to start

2024-06-11 Thread Karl Berry
Maybe this is a silly question, but, is there a reason why this test needs to be performed in every single package that uses Automake? I was under the impression that the purpose of this test was merely to speed up running Automake's own test suite. There are other packages that h

Re: Bug Resilience Program of German Sovereign Tech Fund

2024-06-11 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Christoph, https://www.sovereigntechfund.de/programs/bug-resilience Thanks for bringing this up. > Our partner 'Neighbourhoodie Software' provides a variety > of types of contributions to participating projects to > address known issues, If that means providing patches fo

Re: 1.16.90 regression: configure now takes 7 seconds to start

2024-06-11 Thread Karl Berry
bh> Seen e.g. on NetBSD 10.0. Which doesn't support subsecond mtimes? jb> Maybe the best answer is to test for subsecond timestamp granularity first, and then only do the slow test to distinguish between 1-second and 2-second granularity if the subsecond granularity test gives

Re: 1.16.90 regression: configure now takes 7 seconds to start

2024-06-11 Thread Karl Berry
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2024 00:27:39 +0200 From: Bruno Haible To: Subject: 1.16.90 regression: configure now takes 7 seconds to start [I'm writing to automake@gnu.org because bug-autom...@gnu.org appears to be equivalent to /dev/null: [...] It seems this has been fixed, what

Re: automake 1.17 release plan?

2024-05-14 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Christoph, end of 2023 you shared the news that automake release 1.17 could happen Indeed. Unfortunately since then I have had to attend to other priority projects, and there's no one else driving automake. I hope to be able to spend some time on automake again soon to bring the release t

Re: How to force libtool to use CXX mode?

2024-05-13 Thread Karl Berry
Automake does have a critical bug in that for a target which only optionally has C++ sources, that target is always linked using C++. So it should only use C++ if the "option" is selected? Can you provide a test tree? Without this issue, the trick of including an empty optional C++

Re: How to force libtool to use CXX mode?

2024-05-13 Thread Karl Berry
convince Automake to force libtool to link using the C++ compiler When there are no C++ sources? Why? Just trying to understand ... I'm sorry Bob, but I just don't know. Maybe the just-released libtool-2.5.0 alpha offers some new help? If there is some bug in or feature for Automake that wo

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-04-02 Thread Karl Berry
I'm also wondering whether the GNU system should recommend using zstd instead of or in addition to xz for compression purposes. I'm not sure GNU explicitly recommends anything. Although the tarball examples in standards.texi and maintain.texi all use gz, I don't think even gz is explicitly

Re: GNU Coding Standards, automake, and the recent xz-utils backdoor

2024-03-30 Thread Karl Berry
`distcheck` target's prominence to recommend it in the "Standard Targets for All Users" section of the GCS? Replying as an Automake developer, I have nothing against it in principle, but it's clearly up to the GNU coding standards maintainers. As far as I know, that's still rms (for anyth

Re: C library promoted to C++ linkage due to optional C++ source module

2024-03-09 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Bob, It is my opinion that if a library or program is linked with C++ libraries (and especially if it is a static build!) that it should be linked using the C++ linker. Likewise, if a library or program does not depend on, or contain any C++ code, it should be linked wi

purpose of line ".. contents:: :depth: 2" in test-suite.log?

2024-01-28 Thread Karl Berry
Does anyone know what this line in automake-generated test-suite.log files is used by or intended for? . contents:: :depth: 2 It appears to be machine-parsable, but I can't find any reference to it in the code or the doc. There doesn't seem to be anything that outputs :depth: 3 (or anything else)

automake-1.16j pretest available: please test

2023-12-29 Thread Karl Berry
The GNU Automake 1.16j development snapshot is now available. Download here: https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/automake/automake-1.16j.tar.xz https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/automake/automake-1.16j.tar.gz We intend for automake 1.17 to be released soon, essentially with only bug fixes for whatever is found

Re: Typo in NEWS section "New in 1.17" and "New in 1.15"

2023-12-26 Thread Karl Berry
While reading the announcement for 1.16i, I found a typo in the NEWS file "New in 1.17" section. I have also accidentally found a typo in the "New in 1.15" section, Thanks x 2, Hans. Applied. which might need a line rewrap after the fix. Nah, it's ok. I have not system

Re: What does (did?) it mean when aclocal exits with code 63?

2023-12-22 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Zack, *automake* can exit with code 63 under some circumstances, but it really looks like aclocal never will. Agreed. I searched for "63" in automake distributions back to 1.11.3, as well as the current sources, and no trace of any 63's in aclocal, only in automake. Thus I suspect that

automake-1.16i pretest available: please test

2023-12-18 Thread Karl Berry
We are pleased to announce the GNU Automake 1.16i development snapshot. We intend for automake 1.17 to be released soon, essentially with only bug fixes for whatever is found in this pretest. So please do test if at all possible. It's our primary goal to preserve compatibility. If this release of

Re: [RFC PATCH]: autom4te: report subsecond timestamp support in --version

2023-12-05 Thread Karl Berry
Features: subsecond-timestamps Sounds good to me, FWIW. Thanks to all. -k

Re: rhel8 test failure confirmation?

2023-12-04 Thread Karl Berry
I thought we were talking about automake's testsuite probing the behavior of *autom4te* Yes, exactly. Sorry for the confusion. $ ./tests/autom4te --version autom4te (GNU Autoconf) 2.72d.6-49ab3-dirty (subsecond timestamps supported) Looks good to me. Thanks. a third party C

Re: rhel8 test failure confirmation?

2023-12-03 Thread Karl Berry
upthread somewhere Karl (iirc) threw out a bikeshed idea like --has=. Pretty sure it wasn't me :).

Re: rhel8 test failure confirmation?

2023-12-03 Thread Karl Berry
> There would not need to be much parsing, just "automake --version | grep > HiRes" in that case, or "case `automake --version` in *HiRes*) ...;; > easc" to avoid running grep if you want. I specifically want to hear what Karl thinks. I lean towards Jacob's view that automake --

Re: rhel8 test failure confirmation?

2023-12-02 Thread Karl Berry
The best way to check if high-resolution timestamps are available to autom4te is to have perl load Autom4te::FileUtils and check if that also loaded Time::HiRes. The problem with that turned out to be that Time::HiRes got loaded from other system modules, resulting in the test thinki

Re: armflang: error: unknown argument: '-soname'

2023-10-22 Thread Karl Berry
While libtool has a new maintainer (Alex Ameen), essentially nothing happens, which is quite unfortunate... 1) libtool 2.4.7 was released in March 2022 (I don't know if Alex did it), which isn't so terribly long ago. Sure, maintainers should at least confirm bug reports and patches, even i

Re: armflang: error: unknown argument: '-soname'

2023-10-21 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Anton - thanks for the report. https://github.com/HDFGroup/hdf5/issues/366 with the solution that "-Wl," must be prepended somehow to "-soname". Why do you think this is not a libtool issue? Isn't it libtool's job to figure out the arguments that need to be passed? The fact that the -

Re: [PATCH v2] automake: rewrite scan_variable_expansions regex

2023-08-09 Thread Karl Berry
The regex pattern in function scan_variable_expansions() fails to report a portability warning when a dollar-escaped dollar sign precedes the variable: foo_SOURCES = a.c $$$(patsubst a.c,a,b) Thanks much, Jan. It all worked for me. Pushed. --karl

Re: [PATCH] automake: rewrite scan_variable_expansions regex

2023-08-05 Thread Karl Berry
The regex pattern in function scan_variable_expansions() fails to report a portability warning when a dollar-escaped dollar sign precedes the variable: foo_SOURCES = a.c $$$(patsubst a.c,a,b) Thanks Jan. Any chance you could add a check to one of the tests, I guess dollarv

Re: Issue with AM_PROG_LEX

2023-08-01 Thread Karl Berry
This will work iff AM_PROG_LEX uses AC_REQUIRE to invoke AC_PROG_LEX. Evidently so. From automake's m4/lex.m4: AC_DEFUN([AM_PROG_LEX], [AC_PREREQ([2.50])dnl AC_REQUIRE([AM_MISSING_HAS_RUN])dnl AC_REQUIRE([AC_PROG_LEX])dnl if test "$LEX" = :; then LEX=${am_missing_run}flex fi])

Re: Getting long SOURCES lines with subdirs shorter

2023-07-17 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Jan, Current automake likely won't have anything in store already, Not that I know of. a_SOURCES = $(addprefix aprog/,main.c foo.c bar.c baz.c) I've often wanted this myself. I'd certainly welcome a patch for it. Please work from automake trunk. None of the various branches are kept

Re: _AM_FILESYSTEM_TIMESTAMP_RESOLUTION incorrect result (was Re: make check(s) pre-release problems)

2023-06-30 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Zack, Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2022 11:35:41 -0400 From: Zack Weinberg [...] the filesystem timestamp resolution was incorrectly detected: Your analysis sounds plausible to me, but it's not obvious to me how best to fix it. ls --full-time or stat may not be available. Maybe just do

Re: faster tests [was: rhel8 test failure confirmation?]

2023-04-17 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Bogdan, Then, I analysed the files and added the trick from t/backcompat2.sh (if possible) and/or removed the extra calls to $ACLOCAL (if possible). Thanks much for looking into this. Short version: after a few hours of testing and modifications, I *may* have saved up to 1 mi

Re: rhel8 test failure confirmation?

2023-04-08 Thread Karl Berry
Are you sure about that? Yes. Well, as sure as I can be. I don't see any $(...) constructs in Automake's *.m4 now, and this is certainly deliberate. We discussed shell portability many times over the decades of Automake development. I can't quickly find where it's documented, if anywhere, but

Re: rhel8 test failure confirmation?

2023-04-07 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Jacob, The guess was the two most probable locations: /usr/share/autoconf and /usr/local/share/autoconf. Wouldn't have worked on my own system :). Challenge accepted. Thanks! if $PERL -I${autom4te_perllibdir:-$(sed -n \ '/autom4te_perllibdir/{s/^.*|| //

Re: rhel8 test failure confirmation?

2023-04-05 Thread Karl Berry
jb> The test also guesses the location of autoconf's Perl libraries; I'm skeptical that any "guessing" of library locations would be reliable enough. jb> a more thorough test would locate the autom4te script and grep it for the perllibdir that was substituted when autoconf was co

Re: faster tests [was: rhel8 test failure confirmation?]

2023-04-04 Thread Karl Berry
Is there a way to time individual tests I don't know. Maybe one of the more experienced automakers here can advise. Makes me wonder about having the test infrastructure start each test by running date to get the start time into the log file. Does anyone see a problem with doing that? The m

faster tests [was: rhel8 test failure confirmation?]

2023-04-02 Thread Karl Berry
# A trick to make the test run muuuch faster, by avoiding repeated # runs of aclocal (one order of magnitude improvement in speed!). echo 'AC_INIT(x,0) AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE' > configure.ac Hadn't noticed this before. Maybe you could see what tests are currently taking the longest to run, a

Re: rhel8 test failure confirmation?

2023-04-02 Thread Karl Berry
I modified my autom4te using the attached patch, Thank you very very much for finding this, Bogdan. I'm glad that Paul has already installed it in Autoconf. I can't easily confirm it for myself right now, but I'm hopeful. (Maybe Frederic or others can try with the development autoconf.) W

Re: rhel8 test failure confirmation?

2023-03-03 Thread Karl Berry
Note that 'config.h' is older (4 seconds) than './configure', which shouldn't be the case as it should get updated with new values. Indeed. That is the same sort of thing as I was observing with nodef. But what (at any level) could be causing that to happen? Files just aren't getting upda

Re: rhel8 test failure confirmation?

2023-03-02 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Frédéric, While building the trunk directly led to check failures, Confirmation is good. rebuilding the RPM in a mock environment didn't. Puzzling. I'll likely spend more time next week to perform more testing. It may simply be an environment problem: I guess it's possibl

Re: rhel8 test failure confirmation?

2023-03-01 Thread Karl Berry
FAIL: t/remake-aclocal-version-mismatch.sh Thanks for trying it, Nick. I'm glad it's not just me. And I sure wonder wtf is going on :(. -k

rhel8 test failure confirmation?

2023-03-01 Thread Karl Berry
Does anyone have access to an RHEL 8-based machine? Alma Linux, Rocky Linux, original RHEL, or even (sort of) CentOS 8? It would be nice if someone could run a make check there (from automake dev). git clone -q git://git.savannah.gnu.org/automake.git cd automake ./bootstrap ./configure && m

Re: On generating compilation databases

2022-12-18 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Arsen - sorry for the delayed reply. Replying as one of the automake developers, though I know nothing ... src/tangle-main.o \ `test -f 'src/main.cpp' || echo '$(srcdir)/'`src/main.cpp ... which relies on a shell construct, making it hard to 'deduce' from the point of a pure

Re: Automatic dependency tracking when using non-depcomp tools

2022-11-24 Thread Karl Berry
Can I actually rely on Automake making a verbatim copy of the include line from Makefile.am to Makefile.im? As far as I can make out, your logic is exactly correct. Looking at the bin/automake script, I see: my $PATH_PATTERN = '(\w|[+/.-])+'; # This will pass through anything not of the p

Re: TAR variable no effect when tar-pax is used

2022-11-22 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Jan, But when you set `tar_pax` in AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE, this comes out: I surmise that's left over from when the pax support was added. I don't see any reason not to use $(TAR) there now. It presumably shouldn't be too hard to fix. If you can devise a patch (and ideally test case), that woul

Re: Automatic dependency tracking when using non-depcomp tools

2022-11-22 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Hans - first, congratulations on getting this to work at all. I don't recall anyone else undertaking this. I'm afraid I don't have any particular insights, but just so you know someone read your mail: Question: Is it OK for me to hook into ./$(DEPDIR)/ at all? I could use

Re: 3-rd party aux files.

2022-11-06 Thread Karl Berry
automake -af --libdir=$HOME/aux it breaks automake (it can't find other files, e.g. am/header-vars.am). So, my question: Is there any way to provide 3-rd party aux files? It seems not :(. If you, or anyone, can draft a patch, that would be great. As can be seen by how long it took me

Re: make check(s) pre-release problems

2022-10-11 Thread Karl Berry
I actually wonder if your sudden "parallelism" failure could be somehow linked to an update of bash, similar to mine ? Good idea, but my bash hasn't changed ... I don't doubt there would be plenty more failures with the new SHLVL change (any such change seems like a terrible idea, but oh w

Re: make check(s) pre-release problems

2022-10-06 Thread Karl Berry
No errors on RHEL7+autoconf2.71 Puzzling. Can you easily try RHEL8 or one of its derivatives? It surprises me that that is the culprit, but it seems possible. I'm using autoconf-2.71, make-4.3, etc., compiled from source, but am using the OS-provided coreutils. I think I'll try compiling that

Re: make check(s) pre-release problems

2022-10-05 Thread Karl Berry
What version of GNU make are you using? I've been using make 4.3 since its release in 2020. No changes, no prereleases. I'm afraid the problem, whatever it is, is not that simple :(. What troubles me most is that there's no obvious way to debug any test failure involving parallelism, since t

make check(s) pre-release problems

2022-10-04 Thread Karl Berry
With Zack's latest Python fixes, I was hoping to move towards an Automake release, but I find myself stymied by apparently random and unreproducible test failures. I haven't exhausted every conceivable avenue yet, but I thought I would write in hopes that others (Zack, past Automake developers, any

Re: python debugging on trunk

2022-09-28 Thread Karl Berry
The appended patch should address both issues. Thanks Zack!! I installed the changes (separately). Note that I have only tested it with Python 2.7 and 3.6. It _may_ not be correct for Python in the 3.0--3.3 (inclusive) range I didn't test any of those versions either. Certainly yo

python debugging on trunk

2022-09-26 Thread Karl Berry
Is anyone up for debugging some Python-related test failures on RHEL-based systems? Mike Vapier from gentoo made many improvements to the Python support. (Mike, if you're still out there, would love to hear back.) Unfortunately, the end result is that 13 tests (listed below) now fail for me on Al

Re: man_MANS install locations

2022-08-31 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Jan, As for GNU/Linux, what was the rationale to only permit [0-9ln]? No idea. Maybe just didn't think about "m", or maybe it didn't exist at that time? Jim, Paul, anyone? Should automake be relaxed? I see no harm in allowing more (any) letters, if that's what you mean. When ru

Re: How to speed up 'automake'

2022-05-23 Thread Karl Berry
I was going to bisect but if it doesn't fail for me in the first place... :( Thanks. Indeed, reconfiguring etc. got rid of those errors. Now a bunch (12) of the Python tests are failing for me, presumably because of previous Python changes not playing nicely with my older Python version (2.7.

Re: How to speed up 'automake'

2022-05-21 Thread Karl Berry
Unrelated to Jan's depend.am change, but it turns out that a previous change broke make distcheck (768 failures). I don't feel right about committing anything else until that is fixed. Error below. Jim (or anyone), can you easily advise? I haven't delved into this part of things before. (Not sure

Re: How to speed up 'automake'

2022-05-21 Thread Karl Berry
Fancy doing it? Jim agreed :) Yeah, sorry. Other priority things have intervened :(. I have a mild hope of getting to it by tomorrow. If someone else wants to make the commit, certainly fine by me :). -k

Re: How to speed up 'automake'

2022-05-03 Thread Karl Berry
I see no reason why mv would be so crucial. Hmm, I guess you're right. Thanks for the analysis. The purpose of the stamp files is to avoid partial files being written (and screwing up future makes), but if the file is zero bytes, it seems that problem cannot happen. Jim, do you agree? I'll i

Re: How to speed up 'automake'

2022-05-02 Thread Karl Berry
- @echo '# dummy' >$@-t && $(am__mv) $@-t $@ + @: >>$@ 1) does it actually speed anything up? 2) without the mv I fear we are no longer noticing write failure. -k

Re: How to speed up 'automake'

2022-05-01 Thread Karl Berry
automake --verbose --warnings=all --add-missing --copy Since you're talking about cron, I'm guessing the terminal output is being redirected to a file? Because if it's going to an actual tty, that can consume a surprising amount of time. Is there a way to speed 'automake' up? Only real i

Re: Wrong order of preprocessor and compiler flags

2022-03-27 Thread Karl Berry
It seems the basic inconsistency is whether CPPFLAGS is considered a "user variable" or not. In earlier eras, it wasn't, but from your msg, I gather it is now. The GNU standards node about it, that you mentioned, https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/standards.html#Command-Variables does not clearl

Re: multiple online manual versions

2022-01-30 Thread Karl Berry
> https://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/index-full.html It's better, but how about a non-blank line? (does obey table cells? I'm never sure.) Obviously we're getting down to trivialities, feel free to ignore :). so i guess once gnulib merges my update, If nothing happens s

Re: multiple online manual versions

2022-01-29 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Mike, https://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/index-full.html It looks nice, but the plethora of versions becomes rather an undifferentiated mass. Maybe make each major release its own , as in: Automake 1.16 releases: 1.16* versions Automake 1.15 releases: 1.15* versions Just t

Re: multiple online manual versions

2022-01-28 Thread Karl Berry
i was planning on the full index being maintained here: https://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/index-full.html Sounds good. >>See the [full version index] for other versions of the manual. Good. Maybe something like: >>See the [full version index] for the manual for old

Re: multiple online manual versions

2022-01-27 Thread Karl Berry
per your request, the default is unchanged. I understand (and thanks), but my question was about the "table" (whether it's actually a or not): * (Feb 2018) GNU Automake 1.16 (HTML PDF) * (Dec 2014) GNU Automake 1.15 (HTML PDF) * (Jun 2013) GNU Automake 1.14 (HTML PDF) On what page were yo

Re: multiple online manual versions

2022-01-26 Thread Karl Berry
* i'm assuming that we don't want to modify lib/gendocs_template since it's synced with upstream gnulib For sure. so the default manual/ landing page & manual will be unchanged from today other than having a link to the full versioned index What url/filename are you thinkin

Re: community long term x.y release branches

2022-01-26 Thread Karl Berry
i would like to help coordinate these downstream distros so they don't have to keep all repeating the same work. basically: Sounds sensible to me. * commits are on a volunteer/request basis -- there is no expectation that people working on master/whatever think about thes

Re: multiple online manual versions

2022-01-19 Thread Karl Berry
* the current page, but with an entry/link like "For older manuals, please see this index." Agreed this is preferable. Not a fan of the gcc index page. changes to the manual the rename or reorder chapters, we're breaking those historical links. Reordering isn't a problem; that

Re: adding a command line option for ACLOCAL_PATH-type search paths

2022-01-19 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Mike, the ACLOCAL_PATH functionality is useful (adding search dirs after -I), but a bit unwieldy as an env var. any reason we can't add a command line option for this ? Seems like a fine idea to me. call it --aclocal-path ? or --extra-system-acdir ? Reading the doc, my hu

Re: multiple online manual versions

2022-01-18 Thread Karl Berry
Having multiple versions of the manual online sounds all to the good to me. As long as it's being done at all, I wouldn't hesitate to put up the manuals for every release, not just the major releases. For 1.16.x, I'm afraid I rather broke the previous rules for major releases anyway. https://ww

Re: rm -f # no more args failure?

2021-12-13 Thread Karl Berry
bf> I thought that systems deriving from OpenSolaris (e.g. Illumos, ... However, testing in an empty directory on a system without the upated ksh93 this looks ok to me: Bob, what you wrote before (approx. a year ago) is here: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=42529 E

rm -f # no more args failure?

2021-12-12 Thread Karl Berry
Does anyone here use or know of an active system where plain rm -f with no arguments fails? I mean, exits with bad status? We are considering changing Automake to assume this works, although we'd provide for a workaround just in case, something like make RM_F="rm -f nosuchfile" But if there a

Re: automake 1.16.4 and new PYTHON_PREFIX

2021-09-23 Thread Karl Berry
If anyone who weighed in on the Python prefix stuff (or didn't, for that matter) has a chance to try the new pretest at https://meyering.net/automake/automake-1.16g.tar.xz that'd be great. It'd be nice not to have to do another patch-up release. Thanks, Karl

Re: generated lex/yacc sources?

2021-09-21 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Nick, Jan, all, nick> I think all that should be needed is to list the .l (or .y) file in _SOURCES normally Thanks much. I was thinking I should avoid that since the .[ly] are not ultimate sources, but if it works, fine with me. jan> BUILT_SOURCES = foo.y foo.y: foo.cweb

Re: [platform-testers] automake-1.16g snapshot

2021-09-21 Thread Karl Berry
Redoing the tests with 1.16g I now have 9 failed tests, the testsuite.log is attached. Thanks much for giving it a whirl right away. But are those failures anything new? FAIL: t/fn99subdir FAIL: t/lex-clean-cxx FAIL: t/lex-depend-cxx FAIL: t/test-extensions-empty FAIL: t/subpkg FAIL: t/s

generated lex/yacc sources?

2021-09-21 Thread Karl Berry
Suppose I want to generate a lex or yacc input file from another file, e.g., a CWEB literate program. Is there a way to tell Automake about this so that the ultimately-generated parser/lexer [.ch] files are saved in srcdir, as happens when [.ly] are direct sources, listed in *_SOURCES? I should kn

Re: automake 1.16.4 and new PYTHON_PREFIX

2021-09-19 Thread Karl Berry
Regarding PYTHON_PREFIX setting in automake, I've pushed a change that (I hope) reverts to the previous behavior of using the usual GNU prefix variables by default. It's attached. The new configure option --with-python-sys-prefix yields the the 1.16.4 behavior of using the sys.* Python values. Th

Re: [PATCH v2] automake: add install dep on install-libLTLIBRARIES to all targets

2021-09-10 Thread Karl Berry
Hi Jan and all. depending on install-libLTLIBRARIES not just for bin_PROGRAMS, but all PROGRAMS and LTLIBRARIES. I installed your patch (for the record: the thread starts at https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/automake/2021-08/msg00016.html). Thanks much. (Now, on another and unrelated fr

Re: [PATCH v2] automake: add install dep on install-libLTLIBRARIES to all targets

2021-08-29 Thread Karl Berry
Subject: [PATCH v2] automake: add install dep on install-libLTLIBRARIES to all targets Thanks. Have you run make check? (In practice, make -j12 check or similar.) Always good to make sure nothing old breaks ... -k

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