Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 20-Jul-2010, at 18:26, Brian Butterworth wrote: > More DRM... > > http://www.betanews.com/article/The-entertainment-Industry-debuts-yet-another-DRM-scheme-Ultraviolet/1279643971? The mind boggles. A lot of it sounds like Marlin (even down to the wide range of industry partners, including So

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

More DRM... http://www.betanews.com/article/The-entertainment-Industry-debuts-yet-another-DRM-scheme-Ultraviolet/1279643971? On 19 July 2010 11:51, Mo McRoberts wrote: > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 10:38, Nick Reynolds-FM&T > wrote: > > Mo - although we didn't publish your article on the blog I di

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 10:38, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > Mo - although we didn't publish your article on the blog I did circulate > it to other colleagues in the BBC and I was pleased to see it published > in the Guardian. We also linked to it from the blog when it was > published. Nick - hones

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 16 July 2010 21:02 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 19:27, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > "glossing over details which might not seem important

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

> "What does this mean for consumers in real terms?" is pretty important > -- that's why I wrote "the guardian article" (can't think of > a better way to refer to that piece, sorry). The Grauniad recital =D I'll get my coat - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, p

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 19:27, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > "glossing over details which might not seem important but are" > > What does or does not seem important is a matter of interpretation and > is in the eye of the beholder... Not really... "What does this mean for consumers in real terms?"

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

half Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 16 July 2010 16:03 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:07, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > In the case of Erik's post that you mention all we are actually doing > is cross posting to it on

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:07, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > In the case of Erik's post that you mention all we are actually doing is > cross posting to it on the Internet blog. So the editor of the About The > BBC blog has editorial responsibility for it because it was published > first there. > >

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

A HUGE aside here, but still relevant given the previous discussion of the traditional royalty share model and how it favours the labels. I work for a (fairly small) indie label - from witnessing this model in action I feel I have to stick up for the label given that I see the model working (or s

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

The internet doesn't make anything different. Not anymore. It is exactly the same as the physical world but bigger and more connected. The publishers should be educated at the same time as they would benefit from being open and educating their customers. Surely the apparent subterfuge goes to

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

I know users of the site who have had nasty letters from solicitors telling them to pay £300+ for a single album they torrented, etc. So I think users may notice a difference in that regard. Yes these guy's are saints. "But as they say in Britain, “where there’s muck, there’s brass”, and

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

ich is another thing entirely. -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 14 July 2010 11:34 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:10, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > I think it is a kind of slippery slope - one day you're making a personal > archive of a TV programme, the next you are publishing it all on the internet > for your friends - even this which might seem harmless might prevent a rights >

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:33, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > What I'm describing is not home taping - it's publishing - the internet > makes everything different The point is -- the leap from 'having recorded some programmes' to 'publishing them on the Internet' isn't a small one in real terms. It

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

You'd be surprised - they do (think it's a concern) -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 14 July 2010 11:26 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:28:33AM +0100, Adam Bradley wrote: > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Nick Reynolds-FM&T < > nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk> wrote: > > People say "there's nothing people can do about this" but Pirate Bay was > > closed down and fined heavily and I haven't seen much about them

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:15, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > I don't write other people's posts on the blog I only write my own. Okay, just so we're clear (and as a minor educational exercise in behind-the-scenes-on-the-Internet-Blog) - a post from, say, Erik Huggers (like the one today) - was that

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

ubject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management > I think it is a kind of slippery slope - one day you're making a personal archive of a TV programme, the next you are publishing it all on the internet for your friends - even this which might seem harmless might prevent a rights holde

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Nick Reynolds-FM&T < nick.reyno...@bbc.co.uk> wrote: People say "there's nothing people can do about this" but Pirate Bay was > closed down and fined heavily and I haven't seen much about them since. Perhaps you haven't heard much about them in the news, but the

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:10, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > I think it is a kind of slippery slope - one day you're making a personal > archive of a TV programme, the next you are publishing it all on the internet > for your friends - even this which might seem harmless might prevent a rights >

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

> I think it is a kind of slippery slope - one day you're making a personal > archive of a TV programme, the next you are publishing it all on the internet > for your friends - even this which might seem harmless might prevent a rights > holder setting up their own website to do the same thing c

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 13 July 2010 17:11 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 16:43, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > Hi Mo, > > I am going out this evening so will be away from a computer. > > Howev

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Paul Battley Sent: 13 July 2010 17:28 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management On 13 July 2010 16:43, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > 6. I don't understand your point. The purpose of these measures is to > k

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 13 July 2010 16:43, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > 6. I don't understand your point. The purpose of these measures is to > keep honest people honest. I don't understand this "keep honest people honest" thing. Is the BBC saving people from themselves, just in case they might be tempted to do somet

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 16:43, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > Hi Mo, > > I am going out this evening so will be away from a computer. > > However I thought I would try and give you a quick response to some of > your questions. > > 1. Because I didn't know it was happening until after it was mentioned

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

We do not spin or misdirect on the Internet blog. I am saddened by your assertion that we do. -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 13 July 2010 01:14 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re:

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

A delayed reply, but: On 16-Jun-2010, at 08:42, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > All I can really do with you Mo is disagree. > > Of course the public has a right to make an informed judgement. And all > I can say is that on the blog we have linked to and exposed all sides of > the argument and all

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

Gareth, You can force the WMC to use the Freeview EPG on individual channels, but the guide you get by default is more .. comprehensive. On 16 June 2010 12:01, Gareth Davis wrote: > > On 16 Jun 2010, at 08:15, Brian Butterworth > wrote: > > On 16 June 2010 07:54, Paul Webster wrote: > > > >>

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 16 Jun 2010, at 08:15, Brian Butterworth wrote: > On 16 June 2010 07:54, Paul Webster wrote: > >> On 16 Jun 2010, at 07:11, Brian Butterworth wrote: >> >>> It's only on the EPG anyway, even Windows Media Centre will bypass it, as it uses the DigiGuide one. Or record the whole audi

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

Brian Butterworth wrote: If I had the resources I would launch a judicial review, as this is an appalling situation for Auntie. I too don't have the resources for a judicial review, perhaps the BBC should test the legal position it's self (judicial review), or the Open Rights Group may wis

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

> "Andrew Bowden" writes: > > It's so hard for me currently to get SD content off my PVR > > and on to > > my iPod that I've never done it. > This is easy enough to automate however you like if you're > using a software PVR such as MythTV -- it's the only way I > listen to radio these days. I

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 16/06/10 07:11, Brian Butterworth wrote: It's only on the EPG anyway, even Windows Media Centre will bypass it, as it uses the DigiGuide one. Or record the whole audio-video stream and use an edit package. Or pause/record the old fashioned way. And how long will the Radio Times XML service

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

Brian Butterworth wrote: The published document is here: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/content_mngt/statement/statement.pdf Section 2.18 "Ofcom is mindful that it does not have a power to include conditions in the Multiplex B licence relating to content management per se. Ofcom ma

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

But it's a honest position, honestly held. -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 15 June 2010 23:47 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management On 15-

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

Brian Butterworth wrote: It's only on the EPG anyway, even Windows Media Centre will bypass it, as it uses the DigiGuide one. Or record the whole audio-video stream and use an edit package. Or pause/record the old fashioned way. To expand my argument (as you have seen my previous post).

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

The published document is here: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/content_mngt/statement/statement.pdf The legal nonsense in section 2 clearly shows how unclear the legal position is. On 16 June 2010 06:38, David Tomlinson

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 16 June 2010 07:54, Paul Webster wrote: > > > On 16 Jun 2010, at 07:11, Brian Butterworth wrote: > > > It's only on the EPG anyway, even Windows Media Centre will bypass it, as > it uses the DigiGuide one. Or record the whole audio-video stream and use > an edit package. Or pause/record the

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 16 Jun 2010, at 07:11, Brian Butterworth wrote: > It's only on the EPG anyway, even Windows Media Centre will bypass it, as it > uses the DigiGuide one. Or record the whole audio-video stream and use an > edit package. Or pause/record the old fashioned way. Deviation from the main topic

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

David, As we have not actually seen the real Ofcom response yet, I don't know the answers to your questions. But asking the legal position was my one and only response to the consultation, so it will be interesting to hear it. If I had the resources I would launch a judicial review, as this is a

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

It's only on the EPG anyway, even Windows Media Centre will bypass it, as it uses the DigiGuide one. Or record the whole audio-video stream and use an edit package. Or pause/record the old fashioned way. On 14 June 2010 18:30, Phil Lewis wrote: > So is this just going to be another region-codi

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: Well as always I suspect we will argue about this until the cows come home and not resolve it. No what the BBC is doing is illegal under European law, (encrypting the broadcast - the EPG is broadcast), or at least, failing a legal opinion, in breach of the spirit of

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 15-Jun-2010, at 22:41, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > The BBC has made its position quite clear on the blog - not once but > several times. We have been straight about it as you can see from these > blog posts, not just recently but as far back as April last year (see > Danielle Nagler's post in

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 06/15/2010 10:11 PM, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: People won't miss something they never knew they had in the first place especially if they are able to do all the things they can now, which it appears they will be. They'll find out soon enough, they're not, and it doesn't. This is a problem.

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

well as we can. -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 15 June 2010 22:14 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management right, I'm going to level with

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management right, I’m going to level with you all: I’m tired. very tired. I’m juggling a day-job building e-commerce websites with a hobby helping to build some very very cool things, and I’ve put an awful lot of time and effort into questioning, ga

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

> People won't miss something they never knew they had in the first place > especially if they are able to do all the things they can now, which it appears they will be damn, someone invented the car and forgot to tell anyone. still we won't miss what we never knew... or "miss" seems an odd wor

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

right, I’m going to level with you all: I’m tired. very tired. I’m juggling a day-job building e-commerce websites with a hobby helping to build some very very cool things, and I’ve put an awful lot of time and effort into questioning, gaining understanding of and explaining this whole Freevie

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

s schemes which make it work." So no problem then. -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 15 June 2010 21:48 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Managem

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 15-Jun-2010, at 21:38, Mo McRoberts wrote: > > On 15-Jun-2010, at 20:58, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > >> With respect to you Mo presumably this person who wrote this comment on >> the Media Guardian story doesn't understand it either: > > those caveats, which make quite a significant differe

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

er-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk > [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts > Sent: 15 June 2010 21:21 > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management > > > On 15-Jun-2010, at 21:13, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 15-Jun-2010, at 20:58, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > With respect to you Mo presumably this person who wrote this comment on > the Media Guardian story doesn't understand it either: those caveats, which make quite a significant difference: > "nwhitfield > 14 Jun 2010, 7:04PM > My understandin

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

Omission from who? Me? Or the person quoted? -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 15 June 2010 21:21 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management On

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

Panasonic HD avert on ITV right after the match just now said record HD TV (Freesat or Freeview) to BluRay and save forever Paul

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 15-Jun-2010, at 21:13, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > Nor does it contradict anything I said either! through omission, no. that’s hardly a ringing endorsement, is it? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

Nor does it contradict anything I said either! -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 15 June 2010 21:06 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management On

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management "Andrew Bowden" writes: > It's so hard for me currently to get SD content off my PVR and on to > my iPod that I've never done it. This is easy enough to automate however you like if you're us

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

n there, like the drivers for some graphics cards." > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk > [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts > Sent: 15 June 2010 16:15 > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > Subject: Re: [backs

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

But y -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Adam Sampson Sent: 15 June 2010 20:35 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management "Andrew Bowden" writes: > It&

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

stuff in there, like the drivers for some graphics cards." -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Mo McRoberts Sent: 15 June 2010 16:15 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Manag

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 15-Jun-2010, at 20:34, Adam Sampson wrote: > While I'm sure the Huffman tables will be reverse-engineered soon > enough, it'd be much better if I, as a license fee payer, could obtain a > legal copy from the BBC for my personal use. UK copyright law is already > very clear on exactly what I'm

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

"Andrew Bowden" writes: > It's so hard for me currently to get SD content off my PVR and on to > my iPod that I've never done it. This is easy enough to automate however you like if you're using a software PVR such as MythTV -- it's the only way I listen to radio these days. I think it's a great

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 16:37, Andrew Bowden wrote: > Ease of use aside, even the iPhone 4 doesn't really have the screen > resolution to require HD content - will many handheld devices really > need HD? The Archos 7 Home Tablet handles 720p. I would expect HD capability to become fairly standar

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

American TV producers and film companies used the same argument a few years back that if the broadcast flag wasn't allowed then they wouldn't allow HD content to be broadcast on non-encrypted channels. Congress rejected the use of the broadcast flag and American producers caved in and allowed HD

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 16:48, Adam Bradley wrote: > Point taken, but it would be nice if someone made it easy in future and this > just makes it less likely. > Perhaps "Why can't I stream this on my network player upstairs" would be a > more likely question in the future. Oh, but it can! So lon

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 16:33, Paul Battley wrote: > On 15 June 2010 16:23, Mo McRoberts wrote: >> "why can I not watch Freeview HD on my (slightly older) HD TV?" > > This (HDCP) is one of the restrictions I understand the least. It's > like screwing shut the cat-flap (the DVI/HDMI signal) when t

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Andrew Bowden wrote: > From: Adam Bradley > > Similar questions to Andrew's above will be asked, of course. > > "Why can't I record this TV show?", > > Unless I've missed something (and I'm sure someone will tell me if I > have!) there's no proposals on the table t

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 16:37, Andrew Bowden wrote: > From: Adam Bradley >> Similar questions to Andrew's above will be asked, of course. >> "Why can't I record this TV show?", > > Unless I've missed something (and I'm sure someone will tell me if I > have!) there's no proposals on the table to pr

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

From: Adam Bradley > Similar questions to Andrew's above will be asked, of course. > "Why can't I record this TV show?", Unless I've missed something (and I'm sure someone will tell me if I have!) there's no proposals on the table to prevent people from recording HD content - as long as the user

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 15 June 2010 16:23, Mo McRoberts wrote: > "why can I not watch Freeview HD on my (slightly older) HD TV?" This (HDCP) is one of the restrictions I understand the least. It's like screwing shut the cat-flap (the DVI/HDMI signal) when the door (unencrypted broadcasts) is open. If you want to rip

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 16:16, Adam Bradley wrote: > If the desired effect was to limit what the average consumer can do with TV > - i.e. only making one recording, and limiting how they can transfer this > around their home - then it looks like it could achieve it. This ensures > that any consum

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 16:16, Adam Bradley wrote: > If the desired effect was to limit what the average consumer can do with TV > - i.e. only making one recording, and limiting how they can transfer this > around their home - then it looks like it could achieve it. This ensures > that any consum

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

> a) broadcast in other countries without this scheme or an > equivalent > b) distributed widely prior to it hitting the UK And on BBC HD on satellite to the UK and large parts of Europe. The horse-and-cart makers still can't stand the existence of the car... Won't be long until the "DRM" is (sym

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

> > From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk > [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Adam Bradley > Sent: 15 June 2010 15:14 > To: backstage > Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management > > > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Mo McRober

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Mo McRoberts wrote: > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 15:49, Nick Reynolds-FM&T > wrote: > > The BBC had a choice > > > > a) do nothing and run the risk of content not be available to licence fee > > payers > > > > b) do something which does achieve the desired effect an

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 15:57, Mo McRoberts wrote: > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 15:49, Nick Reynolds-FM&T > wrote: >> The BBC had a choice >> >> a) do nothing and run the risk of content not be available to licence fee >> payers >> >> b) do something which does achieve the desired effect and has a v

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

> _however_, who do people like Graham Plumb work for? AFAIK, > he's BBC proper, not the subsidiary. _The Corporation_ has > made representations in favour of this idea (rather PR-heavy > representations, at that - possibly the single aspect of this > I'm least happy about). In some situation

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 06/15/2010 02:08 PM, Andrew Bowden wrote: If the alternative was this system did not exist and rights holders told broadcasters (for this is not just a BBC issue) that the broadcaster could not broadcast their content in HD on the Freeview platform... They threatened something like this bef

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 15:49, Nick Reynolds-FM&T wrote: > The BBC had a choice > > a) do nothing and run the risk of content not be available to licence fee > payers > > b) do something which does achieve the desired effect and has a very small > negative impact on a very small group of people if

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 06/15/2010 03:21 PM, Andrew Bowden wrote: We can argue around this one as much as we want but I'm afraid there's one simple truth. Most people don't care one bit and just want to watch their programme. They do. And they won't take long to work out that technology, content and services a

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 15:21, Andrew Bowden wrote: > The Strategy Review is irrelevant as this functionality could be used by ITV1 > HD and Channel 4 HD. > > The BBC's name is plastered over this because it holds the multiplex > broadcast licence (in the guise of BBC Free to View Ltd) and, as

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Adam Bradley Sent: 15 June 2010 15:14 To: backstage Subject: Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Mo McRoberts wrote: the BBC had a choice

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 15:14, Adam Bradley wrote: > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Mo McRoberts wrote: >> >> the BBC had a choice: >> a) do nothing >> >> b) do something which didn't achieve the desired effect, and caused >> additional negative effects >> >> it chose (b), because the rights-ho

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

> On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 14:08, Andrew Bowden > wrote: > > Much as I'm rather loathe to wade into this, there's an important > > question to ponder. > > If the alternative was this system did not exist and rights holders > > told broadcasters (for this is not just a BBC issue) that the > > br

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Mo McRoberts wrote: > the BBC had a choice: > > a) do nothing > > b) do something which didn't achieve the desired effect, and caused > additional negative effects > > it chose (b), because the rights-holders threw their toys out of the pram. > > now, either this

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 14:08, Andrew Bowden wrote: > Much as I'm rather loathe to wade into this, there's an important > question to ponder. > > If the alternative was this system did not exist and rights holders told > broadcasters (for this is not just a BBC issue) that the broadcaster > could

RE: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

> From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:12, Alex Cockell > wrote: > > What I can't fathom is why the hell the Beeb's management > > has changed > > so much imn terms of homebrew innovation etc? What are they > > so scared > > of, anyway? Why don't they declare an

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:12, Alex Cockell wrote: > What I can't fathom is why the hell the Beeb's management has changed so > much imn terms of homebrew innovation etc? What are they so scared of, > anyway? Why don't they declare an open api etc? > > Why are they so set on restricting my kit? A

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

What I can't fathom is why the hell the Beeb's management has changed so much imn terms of homebrew innovation etc? What are they so scared of, anyway? Why don't they declare an open api etc? Why are they so set on restricting my kit? - Original message - > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 10

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 10:05, Stephen Jolly wrote: > You could generate new tables each week to track the slow evolution of the > English language? ;-) more {better,useless} than that! generate new tables each week to track the slow evolution in the English language as it's used in the EPG ;)

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 15 Jun 2010, at 09:53, Mo McRoberts wrote: > either way, they'd just get reverse-engineered again. they could push > out new tables every week, but they went to lengths to explain how the > one they have was specially-generated to be wonderfully optimised (in > order to qualify as being some kin

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 09:13, Adam Bradley wrote: > I would assume that the rules for content protection would bar user created > plugins from having access to the data. The Ofcom document had some comments > from content providers about updates to the tables being necessary in the > future if it

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

I would assume that the rules for content protection would bar user created plugins from having access to the data. The Ofcom document had some comments from content providers about updates to the tables being necessary in the future if it gets broken, but it doesn't look like there are any firm pl

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

So is this just going to be another region-coding like affair where 'people' release cracked firmware or just press a few magic button sequences on their remote to remove this protection? And what about those vendors who sell DVRs that have community contributed plugins (e.g. like Topfield did/does

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 14-Jun-2010, at 18:14, Alex Cockell wrote: > So i'll have to buy box after box to watch content? doubtful. those which have been sold for FVHD already will have in-built support for the mechanism (it's specced by the ETSI DVB standards), but will likely need an update to get the decoding t

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

So i'll have to buy box after box to watch content? - Original message - > > On 14-Jun-2010, at 17:31, Brian Butterworth wrote: > > > #FAIL > > > > http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-freeview-allowed-to-use-drm-to-curtail-online-piracy/ > > > > Not much of a shock really.  Or much u

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 14-Jun-2010, at 17:31, Brian Butterworth wrote: > #FAIL > > http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-freeview-allowed-to-use-drm-to-curtail-online-piracy/ > > Not much of a shock really. Or much use for the stated purpose. +2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscr

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

#FAIL http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-freeview-allowed-to-use-drm-to-curtail-online-piracy/ Not much of a shock really. Or much use for the stated purpose. -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitt

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 26-Jan-2010, at 16:20, Mo McRoberts wrote: > If I remember later, I'll dig it out and post it to this thread. It > made for a reasonable semi-executive summary, even if it wasn't quite > as diplomatic as it might be if it were addressed to BBC senior > management, for example ;) And without fu

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

On 26-Jan-2010, at 17:20, Brian Butterworth wrote: > It should be noted that the content management approach implemented for > Freeview HD will frequently enable far more extensive copying and > distribution of broadcast content than is likely to be considered acceptable > to the majority of

Re: [backstage] Freeview HD Content Management

Interesting. 2010/1/26 Mo McRoberts > > I did do some digging, though IANAL and it was only a cursory > high-level search (and it was a while ago) > > From memory, though, and this is just my skim-understanding: primary > legislation covers EPG services as well as TV channels themselves and > in

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