I am, of course, preaching to the choir at this point, but the choir occasionally needs some encouragement as well. . . .
Good advice Scott, and I thank you. I think that perhaps "appalling" was a stronger word than I should have used, as it reflects my emotional reaction to our level of partic
At 12:54 PM 5/31/2004, Dick wrote:
Again I bring you back to the question of people of capacity. Read the
histories and many of the early American believers came from
extraordinary backgrounds and lent their talents and resources to
building the Cause. Where are these individuals? Where are the
In a message dated 5/31/04 3:42:56 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
<< What kept me from leaving the Faith were regular conversations with my
friend, Elizabeth Thomas, who encouraged me to begin a program of individual
deepening which I pursued for many years. Had I, instead,
> As I wrote you privately,
Sorry, Mark I didn't see your reply.
Thank you.
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Dean,
At 05:28 PM 5/31/2004, you wrote:
>>Why do you co-attribute the quote "Sacred cows make the best hamburger" to Abbie
>>Hoffman?<<
As I wrote you privately, the expression was coined by Mark Twain, but Hoffman also
used it. I only included Hoffman because I admire him.
Mark A. Foster *
Read the
> histories and many of the early American believers came from
> extraordinary backgrounds and lent their talents and resources to
> building the Cause. Where are these individuals? Where are the people
> of capacity? Surely someone has some data on this? Unless I am missing
> somethin
> Please, what is an NRM?
New Religious Movement.
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> Thanks for this info. Could you tell me where the Baha'i statistics can
> be found? Are they estimates or hard numbers? How recent and who
> compiled them?
Dear Dick,
I think they are hard numbers, but that isn't to say they are any more
accurate. Ahang may be able to speak to how some of t
Mark,
Why do you co-attribute the quote "Sacred cows make the best hamburger" to
Abbie Hoffman?
Thanks,
Dean
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Dean,
At 04:52 PM 5/31/2004, you wrote:
>>Please, what is an NRM?<<
New Religious Movement.
Mark A. Foster * http://markfoster.net
"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"
-- Mark Twain and Abbie Hoffman
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Please, what is an NRM?
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Dear Dick,
I share the concerns you have expressed, and would like to refer you to a
Message from the Universal House almost sixteen years ago warning us not to
conflate our destiny as Baha'is with that of our country. They wrote:
"Shoghi Effendi, in various statements, celebrated the remarkable
Dick,
At 03:52 PM 5/31/2004, you wrote:
>>Thanks for this info. Could you tell me where the Baha'i statistics can be found?
>>Are they estimates or hard numbers? How recent and who compiled them?<<
http://users.whsmithnet.co.uk/ispalin/statistics/
Mark A. Foster * http://markfoster.net
"Sac
Thanks again for your detailed response, Susan. Your answers are
helping me sort things through. Once again, my responses are
intermingled...
> -Original Message-
> You might look at
> this
> study: http://www.cumorah.com/report.html
> It compares Mormon growth to that of other Christia
Scott,
At 03:10 PM 5/31/2004, you wrote:
>>And most importantly, in what the Institutions are and are not. And supremely: How
>>an individual exercises his obligation to search and investigate for himself what
>>the faith, the central Figures, and the Institutions are and are not.<<
A week afte
In a message dated 5/31/04 2:43:35 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
<< Educate them in what? ;-) >>
That, of course, is the essential question. If they have basic information on
what the Faith is and what it is not, Who Baha`u'llah is and Who He is not.
What the laws are and
In a message dated 5/31/04 2:36:58 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Speaking as a member of a community which has an extremely active and
vital core, which nevertheless displays an appalling overall level of
participation and commitment, I would be extremely interested in
I wrote:
>>Americans are more likely to believe in God and to accept young-earth creationism
>>than persons in any other country.<<
Correct that to "any other Western country."
Mark A. Foster * http://markfoster.net
"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"
-- Mark Twain and Abbie Hoffman
_
Scott,
At 02:15 PM 5/31/2004, you wrote:
>>And, I would assess that, these converts are individuals who were in desparate
>>search for something to fill their needs. Because it was easy and comfortable they
>>went into fundamentalist conversion, or because they were offered no alternative
>>tha
<
Speaking as a member of a community which has an extremely active and vital core, which nevertheless displays an appalling overall level of participation and commitment, I would be extremely interested in any input and suggestions on inspiring and revitalizing our complacent majority, to say noth
Dick,
At 01:53 PM 5/31/2004, you wrote:
>>Is there any hard data on this stuff? What are the conclusions people are coming to
>>about these happenings?<<
The process of desacralization, or secularization, is pretty much global. For all the
loss of interest in religion in the U.S., it remains,
In a message dated 5/31/04 1:34:40 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
<< The only places, at least in the U.S., where one might find something of
the dynamism which was common in the American Baha'i community and in other
NRMs in 1970, when I entered the Faith, are in the large
> Is there any hard data on this stuff? What are the conclusions people
> are coming to about these happenings?
Dear Dick,
I think that website I referred you to earlier gives a lot of that hard
data.
warmest, Susan
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Wonderful accomplishments. Thanks for sharing.
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:bounce-120831-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 12:42 PM
> To: Baha'i Studies
> Subject: Re: Community vitality and political dissent
>
> I
Thanks for the response Mark.
Is there any hard data on this stuff? What are the conclusions people
are coming to about these happenings?
Do you know if things are any different outside the US?
What does the sociologist in you make of all this?
Thanks,
Dick D.
> -Original Message-
>
> I always have mixed feelings about such postings. On the one hand, they
may be useful in making connections between people and in stimulating new
threads. On the other, they clutter people's mailboxes. Therefore, honestly,
my enthusiasm is a bit lukewarm."
I think we also have to keep in mind th
Let's take the example of the Mormons.
> They are equivalent in age to the Baha'i Faith. Yet look what they have
> accomplished. Which is the more vital community?
Dear Dick,
In the US the Mormons have been more successful which is what one would
expect given that as an quintessently American
In a message dated 5/31/04 12:16:48 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< And that remembrance is
what calms our wavering hearts when we feel like like all the heavens and
earth are against us. >>
Thank you, Susan - that eloquent statement re-centers the discussion very
nice
I need to make a correction. I heard this story not from Margauritte
Sears but from acquaintances that were staying at her house at NABI and
was related to me while in attendance at the Desert Rose winter school
at the same place. Sorry for the confusion.
>
> Ah but it doesn't disprove my poi
In a message dated 5/31/04 12:54:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Good question. But I worry that I have led them down a dead end path.
We watch as the children of our friends have left the Faith. There are
only a handful that have stayed with it after their workshop
Dick,
I am on email lists, or regularly visit the chat rooms, of a variety of religious
organizations (Quaker, Unification Church, Unitarian Universalist, Meher Baba, ISKCON,
etc.), and your message, minus the particularist references to the Baha'i community,
might have been found in any of the
Dean,
At 12:59 PM 5/31/2004, you wrote:
>>Would it be possible to know the specialties of each of our members? At one time
>>did we not ask each member to submit a short biographical email?<<
I always have mixed feelings about such postings. On the one hand, they may be useful
in making conne
Dear Mark,
Would it be possible to know the specialties of each of our members? At one
time did we not ask each member to submit a short biographical email?
Thanks,
Dean
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Hi Susan,
Thanks for your reply. My thoughts are interspersed...
>
> The Baha'i community, like any others, goes through cycles. And there
is
> good reason to think our upswings and downswings have as much to do
with
> what is going on around us than what is happening in the Baha'i
community
>
Dear Dick,
The more I thought about your message and my response to it, the more I
realized that a major piece was missing, namely Baha'u'llah. One of the
reasons that Muslims were unwilling to accept either the Bab or Baha'u'llah
is because, like the Jews before them, they expected the Promised O
Dear Dick,
I can't help but think that you're being a bit short-sighted here. If you
became a Baha'i thirty years ago, then as was the case with Mark and myself
there was a tremendous amount of energy in the community accompanied by
spectacular growth. What we didn't recognize at the time is that
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