-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Williams
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:55 AM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Financial institution fallout
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 7:26 AM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED
Max Battcher wrote:
(I think the
analogy between economics and electricity is particularly useful and
perhaps under-explored. I'd love to see more economists use circuit
diagrams...)
Probably because electricity is too deterministic, and economics is too
random. OTOH, economy has
Well, I was hoping to set the ground rules for discussion.
You do like trying to impose your rules on others, don't you.
Actually, they aren't my rules. The rules I was proposing were the general
rules of experimental inquiry that I have learned.
I have also observed that folks who follow
Hah! Money is no longer on the gold standard and is completely and
totally a social contract dependent on the whims of societies and
markets and the fiat of governments.
Yup. And, if you looked at gold, it has bounced up and down, like all the
other commodities. In 2008 dollars here
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 7:26 AM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, I was hoping to set the ground rules for discussion.
You do like trying to impose your rules on others, don't you.
Actually, they aren't my rules.
Don't like to take responsibility for your actions, huh?
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hah! Money is no longer on the gold standard and is completely and
totally a social contract dependent on the whims of societies and
markets and the fiat of governments.
Libertarians pretend that all would be well when money
On Dec 9, 2008, at 9:55 AM, John Williams wrote:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 7:26 AM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Well, I was hoping to set the ground rules for discussion.
You do like trying to impose your rules on others, don't you.
Actually, they aren't my rules.
Don't like to take
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Folks: unless you want more like this -- and see above, it's all there
is -- don't feed the troll.
The problem with feeding the troll is that once you start, it is hard
to stop. Much like our government bailing out the
On Dec 9, 2008, at 1:40 PM, John Williams wrote:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Folks: unless you want more like this -- and see above, it's all
there
is -- don't feed the troll.
The problem with feeding the troll is that once you start, it is hard
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 8:36 PM, John Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We rely on markets to be regulatory mechanisms, feedback loops
that reward the efficient and penalize the inefficient.
What an egotistical
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Williams
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:40 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Financial institution fallout
On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 9:51 PM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 7:32 AM, Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The purpose of a system is not the same as what it produces.
If it were, buying a word processor would make you a novelist.
More egotism. Everyone in the markets must do what Nick wants them to do!
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here is where you differ with 96% of people. Most people don't worry about
the purity of the economic system. They worry about their lives and the
lives of the other people in the nation and the world.
I am not worried about the
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Williams
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:15 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Financial institution fallout
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 7:32 AM, Nick Arnett [EMAIL
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, as members of that society, we on Brin-L choose to debate what is best.
That's not egotism.
Of course debating is not egotism. But saying that everyone
participating in a market must serve the purpose you want them to
serve
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Williams
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:24 PM
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
Subject: Re: Financial institution fallout
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:15 AM, John Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 7:32 AM, Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The purpose of a system is not the same as what it produces.
If it were, buying a word processor would make you a novelist.
More egotism. Everyone in
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No, I was asking simple questions about techniques. Discussions between
people on a paper, results, etc. depend on agreement on techniques for
evaluation. I asked whether you agreed on a few essential techniques of
empirical
- Original Message -
From: John Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: Financial institution fallout
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No, I
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 1:35 PM, xponentrob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The rest of us are laughing too, but for different reasons I'm sure.
I certainly am, without even checking all the references.
xponent
Myth-Adventure Maru
rob
___
John Williams wandered around the point:
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
That's not the point being argued. You see, all but a few people
understand
that money is a placeholder; it is a social construct. Numbers in a
computer or pieces of paper with
John Williams wrote:
No, you were rambling on with nonsense, failing to address a single
argument in the Higg's paper.
Well, I was hoping to set the ground rules for discussion. But, I have two
obvious comments on the Higgs paper.
First, his statement about the relatively poor rebound from
First, his statement about the relatively poor rebound from the depression
under FDR is falsified by historical data. 33-37 was the best rebound
since yearly records were kept. (1880).
Whoops, that should be `1870. And, with the Civil War and all, one really
needs to go back to before 1860
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, I was hoping to set the ground rules for discussion.
You do like trying to impose your rules on others, don't you.
First, his statement about the relatively poor rebound from the depression
under FDR is falsified by
You are just trying to rationalize taking wealth from others
because you think you know how to spend it better than they do.
As it happens, I think I do know how better to spend some peoples money
than they do themselves.
If that's someone's only objection to taxation then they can rest
Yeah. I've been watching this unroll. Though to my shock and horror, I've
actually been seeing some of Rand's villains showing up in Washington whining
for their bailouts ... I had dismissed her as over-the-top and preachy and
impractical for decades!
http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Pat Mathews
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:28 AM
To: Brin List
Subject: RE: Financial institution fallout
Yeah. I've been watching this unroll. Though to my shock and horror, I've
actually
On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 9:51 PM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I saw an interesting article from the bastion of free enterprise
publication, the WSJ, at
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122852289752684407.html
Thus, the funds managers who
were prudent ether were converted or lost their
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 6:33 AM, Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Actually, Rand's hero's are in line there too. :-) They are heroes in her
book because they are successful. In reality, the private market failed,
and needs the government...even according to its bible.
I've never read Ayn Rand
that talk
PV
-- Original message from Dan M [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
--
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Pat Mathews
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:28 AM
To: Brin List
Subject: RE: Financial
To say that the market failed is either wrong or meaningless.
If I understand this correctly it was meant that markets can't fail in
the same way physics isn't failing if you fall to your death having
driven off a cliff.
However a person saying the 'markets failed' isn't unnecessarily
claiming
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Euan Ritchie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I still have to build something with my understanding and it doesn't
help for people to keep saying 'let it sort itself out' because hammers,
wood and nails won't, no matter how much I will value the house,
construct one if
At 03:28 PM Sunday 12/7/2008, John Williams wrote:
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Euan Ritchie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I still have to build something with my understanding and it doesn't
help for people to keep saying 'let it sort itself out' because hammers,
wood and nails won't, no
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 10:53 AM, John Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
But your statement above is not particularly insightful either. To say
that the market failed is either wrong or meaningless. The market is
made up of many participants each trying to achieve their own goals.
The market
John Williams wrote:
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Euan Ritchie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I still have to build something with my understanding and it doesn't
help for people to keep saying 'let it sort itself out' because hammers,
wood and nails won't, no matter how much I will value the
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We rely on markets to be regulatory mechanisms, feedback loops
that reward the efficient and penalize the inefficient.
What an egotistical statement. Why not say that you would like markets
to do what you want them to do?
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
John Williams wrote:
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Euan Ritchie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I still have to build something with my understanding and it doesn't
help for people to keep saying 'let it sort itself out'
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