Hello gang. Well here it is. My "big salvo" of the political campaign.
It is intended to analyze the present administration by CONSERVATIVE
standards and especially with an eye to what it takes to win
strategic struggles - even war - in the 21st Century.
It involves HTML a lot in the use of si
At 12:03 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 d.brin wrote:
>I will happily take brickbats and/or criticism about it and/or
>suggestions for more material. Just kindly do not quote me except
>when citing words and opinions that I actually say.
A low blow. The only word I quoted before was "officially." The
- Original Message -
From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 2:26 PM
Subject: re: brin: My big salvo
> At 12:03 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 d.brin wrote:
> >I will happily
- Original Message -
From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 2:26 PM
Subject: re: brin: My big salvo
> At 12:03 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 d.brin wrote:
> >I will happily
> A low blow. The only word I quoted before was
> "officially." The point
> of the quote was to draw attention to the fact that
> the sort of
> millenialist movement you were describing is far too
> decentralized to be
> accurate described as having "official" positions.
This is utter sophi
--- Dan Minette answered:
> > So?Bush got a higher percentage than Clinton
> did in 1992.
with:
> The point is that he got less than Gore did in 2000.
> More people wanted
> Clinton than wanted either Bush or Perot. Fewer
> people wanted Bush than
> wanted Gore.
ALSO ! Perot's voters s
At 02:37 PM 10/11/2004 -0500 Dan Minette wrote:
>> >The monsters have a huge advantage going in, folks. With home bases
>> >in Confederate and rural states, they get up to 30 extra electoral
>> >votes.
>>
>> 30 Extra?
>
>I'm not sure it is 30, but Bush has the advantage that his voters, on
>averag
At 02:37 PM 10/11/2004 -0500 Dan Minette wrote:
>> So?Bush got a higher percentage than Clinton did in 1992.
>
>The point is that he got less than Gore did in 2000. More people wanted
>Clinton than wanted either Bush or Perot. Fewer people wanted Bush than
>wanted Gore.
And the point is,a
> And the point is,a higher percentage of Americans
> were happy with the
> outcome of the 2000 elections than the 1992
> elections.
Typically and utterly and diametrically opposite to
the truth.
I showed how in my last message. What utter sophistry.
> Behalf Of d.brin
> What a bunch of wusses those Founding Fathers were! "... a decent
> respect for the opinions REQUIRES that they declare the causes
which
> impel them..." [snort] Dubya wouldn't feel "required" to seek
out
> the "opinions" of the French and other foreign America-haters, I
Let's see the full list, John.
Giving the dems ME and NH bodes ill for this being
untendentious, given a scan of voting history.
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
At 01:07 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
>> A low blow. The only word I quoted before was
>> "officially." The point
>> of the quote was to draw attention to the fact that
>> the sort of
>> millenialist movement you were describing is far too
>> decentralized to be
>> accurate described a
At 01:07 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
>> This is pretty pathetic, even by your standards.
>
>Yes, your insults are customary and shrugged off.
This would be as opposed to your usual polite and reasoned discussion on
this List? For example, the following?:
>The one person I know will
- Original Message -
From: "JDG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: brin: My big salvo
> At 02:37 PM 10/11/2004 -0500 Dan Minette wrote:
> >> So?Bush got
At 01:46 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
>> And the point is,a higher percentage of Americans
>> were happy with the
>> outcome of the 2000 elections than the 1992
>> elections.
>
>Typically and utterly and diametrically opposite to
>the truth.
In what way?
Bush 2000 - 47.87%
Clinton 1992
The quoted passage has nothing to do with the two
places where you openly stated you were quoting me.
Not paraphrasing but quoting.
Go visit the apocalypts' web sites to see whether THEY
think W agress with them. Just as Black americans
called Bill Clinton "the first black US president" the
apoc
> They aren't lies if you sincerely believe them to be
> true.
Far, far, far worse. To be led into war by men who
believed such fantasies.
History shows they are following the Tonkin Gulf
script to the letter.
And now imaginary "blueprints" for brave South
Vietnamese... er... Iraqi local forc
--- "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 01:46 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
> >> And the point is,a higher percentage of Americans
> >> were happy with the
> >> outcome of the 2000 elections than the 1992
> >> elections.
> >
> >Typically and utterly and diametrically opposit
- Original Message -
From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: brin: My big salvo
> At 02:37 PM 10/11/2004 -0500 Dan Minette wrote:
> >>
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:15:09 -0400, John D. Giorgis
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 01:46 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
> >> And the point is,a higher percentage of Americans
> >> were happy with the
> >> outcome of the 2000 elections than the 1992
> >> elections.
> >
> >Typically and utter
At 05:04 PM 10/11/2004 -0500 Dan Minette wrote:
>> For example, if one assigns all of the States on the basis of the 2000
>> Presidential vote, and divides 2003 population by 2004 electoral votes,
>you
>> get:
>> 461,913 Blue Staters per Electoral Vote
>> 453,567 Red Staters per Electoral Vote
>
>I
At 02:34 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
>
>> They aren't lies if you sincerely believe them to be
>> true.
>
>Far, far, far worse. To be led into war by men who
>believed such fantasies.
>
>History shows they are following the Tonkin Gulf
>script to the letter.
>
>And now imaginary "bluepr
At 02:29 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
>The quoted passage has nothing to do with the two
>places where you openly stated you were quoting me.
>Not paraphrasing but quoting.
Not true:
At 08:06 PM 10/2/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
[snip]
>> It is ludicrous to call
>> it a, quote,
>> "offi
> From: JDG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> At 02:29 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
> >The quoted passage has nothing to do with the two
> >places where you openly stated you were quoting me.
> >Not paraphrasing but quoting.
>
> Not true:
>
> At 08:06 PM 10/2/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
> [snip]
From: David Brin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: re: brin: My big salvo
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:07:51 -0700 (PDT)
A lack of skepticism toward one's own motives is the
sure
In a message dated 10/11/2004 3:26:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
John Kerry, of course, meant by "global test" that America must not just
lay out its causes, but that we must get some form of international
approval - beyond the approval of getting at least 21 out of
> >A lack of skepticism toward one's own motives is
> the> >sure fire sign of a romantic.
> That's great! Pure gold in words. Can I quote ya?
Sure. It's all part of the notions at:
http://www.davidbrin.com/tolkienarticle1.html
Anyone who doubts my "balance" should hear me talk
about the Naderit
At 05:07 PM 10/11/2004 -0500 Gary Denton wrote:
>Typically meaningless - Clinton had by far the highest percentage of
>vote of the candidates. Clinton governed centrist,
One thing I love about liberals is their modesty.Apparently propsing a
government take-over of the national health care in
At 02:36 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
>
>--- "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> At 01:46 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
>> >> And the point is,a higher percentage of Americans
>> >> were happy with the
>> >> outcome of the 2000 elections than the 1992
>> >> elections.
At 01:12 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
>W ENTERED OFFICE WITH A CLEAR MAJORITY HAVING VOTED
>AGAINST HIS PROGRAM. Yet, he proceeded NOT to reach
>out, but to declare a MANDATE. Never ever meeting
>with opponents.
This is a lie. Bush very famously had Ted Kennedy over to watch a movie
a
At 08:07 PM 10/11/2004 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>John Kerry, of course, meant by "global test" that America must not just
>lay out its causes, but that we must get some form of international
>approval - beyond the approval of getting at least 21 out of 30 formal US
>Allies to support the Ir
JDG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 01:12 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
>W ENTERED OFFICE WITH A CLEAR MAJORITY HAVING VOTED
>AGAINST HIS PROGRAM. Yet, he proceeded NOT to reach
>out, but to declare a MANDATE. Never ever meeting
>with opponents.
This is a lie. Bush very famously had Ted Ke
On Oct 14, 2004, at 4:03 PM, JDG wrote:
At 05:07 PM 10/11/2004 -0500 Gary Denton wrote:
Typically meaningless - Clinton had by far the highest percentage of
vote of the candidates. Clinton governed centrist,
One thing I love about liberals is their modesty.Apparently
propsing a
government tak
--- Dave Land <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Oct 14, 2004, at 4:03 PM, JDG wrote:
>
> > At 05:07 PM 10/11/2004 -0500 Gary Denton wrote:
> >> Typically meaningless - Clinton had by far the
> highest percentage of
> >> vote of the candidates. Clinton governed
> centrist,
> >
> > One thing I l
In a message dated 10/14/2004 7:17:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
O.k. Bob, but if your interpretation of what Kerry said is more accurate -
then what do you believe would be required to pass this "global test" just
as John Kerry said.
After all, this most recent war
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 10/14/2004 7:17:33 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> O.k. Bob, but if your interpretation of what Kerry
> said is more accurate -
> then what do you believe would be required to pass
> this "global test" ...
SImple
At 10:06 PM 10/14/2004 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>So, Bob, how do you imagine that John Kerry envisions passing this "global
>>test' of his based on his record?
>
>Engaging the international community in real dialogues and real
>negotiations. Reestablising our reputation for fairness and res
JDG wrote:
>
> At 01:12 PM 10/11/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
> >W ENTERED OFFICE WITH A CLEAR MAJORITY HAVING VOTED
> >AGAINST HIS PROGRAM. Yet, he proceeded NOT to reach
> >out, but to declare a MANDATE. Never ever meeting
> >with opponents.
>
> This is a lie. Bush very famously had Ted Ken
> And why is it that the first Gulf War, with a
> gold-plated UN Security
> Council endorsement and a vast coalition did not
> pass this "global test?"
False distraction. If Kerry opposed the 91 campaign,
I have yet to see evidence for that. In any event, if
he did, that is but one strike again
--- Julia
> Whatever else may have happened *since* Bush took
> office as President,
> he went in wanting to act without partisanship.
This is a subjective impression and I am glad you show
such optimistic interpretations. I saw nothing but
bellicosity from day one. Starting with appointing
ene
--- David Brin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> False distraction. If Kerry opposed the 91
> campaign,
> I have yet to see evidence for that. In any event,
> if
> he did, that is but one strike against him. I'll
> take
> note. It brings his list up to W's toes.
He absolutely did oppose it - he vot
At 08:03 PM 10/14/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
>> And why is it that the first Gulf War, with a
>> gold-plated UN Security
>> Council endorsement and a vast coalition did not
>> pass this "global test?"
>
>False distraction. If Kerry opposed the 91 campaign,
>I have yet to see evidence for that.
At 08:06 PM 10/14/2004 -0700 David Brin wrote:
>Starting with appointing
>enemies of renwable energy in charge of RE programs,
>enemies of conservation in charge of conservation
>programs, loggers in charge of forest protection...
>and a hundred other examples.
I presume that you are referring to
This is a valid and interesting criticism of Kerry.
I confess, that his standing as a mainstream DLC
democrat has made me lazy about scrutinizing him very
closely. His overall values and intelligence and
willingness to bring a pan-spectrum coalition of DC
professionals to replace the monstrous cu
--- David Brin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is a valid and interesting criticism of Kerry.
I appreciate your saying that, Dr. Brin. This is
actually helping me think through my own decision.
Here, perhaps is where we disagree (and please,
correct me if I'm misinterpreting you - I'm trying
You are trying to be fair, Gautam. Alas, I cannot
accept your dichotomy for many reasons.
It is simply absurd to call this about enslaving our
foreign policy to others. Under Clinton we were
leaders of the planet. We were assertive. We did it
naively/badly in Somalia. Then we did it with
exc
On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 08:23:18PM -0700, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> If he couldn't even bring himself to support the Gulf War in 1991,
> then the next time somebody kills a few thousand Americans (and it
> will happen) what is he going to do when France, Russia, and China
> doesn't give a response t
--- Erik Reuter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wouldn't Kerry's opinion on Afghanistan be a better
> test of this
> question than his opinion on Iraq?
>
> I think whether one supports intervening to promote
> global freedom and
> democracy is a very different question than whether
> one supports a w
> as I can tell, every major act in Kerry's political
> career can be explained by asking the question "What
> could he do that will best advance his short term
> ambitions?"
Like his leadership in pushing to find answers about
our Vietnam MIAs, back when the nation wanted to just
forget it all e
- Original Message -
From: "David Brin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: brin: My big salvo
>
> > as I can tell, every major act in Kerry's polit
- Original Message -
From: "David Brin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: brin: My big salvo
> Find one brave or selfless act ever performed by W,
> beyond
--- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I agree with you that his tax policy is very wrong.
> But, unlike you, I
> think he is just a true believer in Reaganomics.
Yes, even though it has been decisively repudiated by
economists, has failed all experimental evidence in
the real world, and
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:22:44 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- Erik Reuter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Wouldn't Kerry's opinion on Afghanistan be a better
> > test of this
> > question than his opinion on Iraq?
> >
> > I think whether one supports intervening to promot
> I supported that War but
> did see Bush and
> Powell often misleading the public to rush to war.
Just curious, but if GW1 ended up being a disaster,
with 10K American and allied soldiers coming home in
body bags, would you have still supported the war?
Damon.
=
---
Dan Minette wrote:
>
> It may not seem like much to you, but in the Evangelical community, where
> Islam is considered by many a false religion, (...)
>
What nonsense! Every Evangelical leader should place Muhammad
among the precursors of the Reform, a minor reformism before
Luther did the right th
Dan Minette wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: "David Brin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:40 AM
> Subject: Re: brin: My big salvo
>
>
>
>> Find one
--- Robert Seeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I think that could also be explained by his
> relationship with Bandar
> (among others).
> I'm sure he wants to curry favor with a longtime
> family business
> partner.
>
>
> xponent
> Alternate Maru
> rob
Why? He's _President of the United Stat
> > I'm sure he wants to curry favor with a longtime
> > family business
> > partner.
> Why? He's _President of the United States_ - in
> Bill
> Clinton's remarkably crass phrase, he has "high
> earning potential" after he leaves office. Apart
> from
> which, the extent to which the Bushes and
- Original Message -
From: "Gautam Mukunda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: brin: My big salvo
> --- Robert Seeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
59 matches
Mail list logo
