Chuck Guzis wrote:
> I don't think the "first" applies in this case. The MCM/70 used an 8008
On the subject of early 8008 designs - there was a Canadian one (1974 I think)
the
MIL (Microsystems International Limited) MOD-8 - later also released as the
GNC-8
(Great Northern Computers)
I also
On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 11:30 PM Dave Dunfield via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Weill .. I certainly expected lots of "discussion" on these statements
> about my Altair:
>
> I have never claimed to be an "unknown drip"(*) on details of computer
> history, but here is my reasoning:
>
>
Weill .. I certainly expected lots of "discussion" on these statements
about my Altair:
I have never claimed to be an "unknown drip"(*) on details of computer
history, but here is my reasoning:
> First Personal Computer (long before IBM PC)
I am well aware of small systems that predated the
Christian Corti wrote:
> The Anita electronic desktop calculators are a perfect example for the usage
> of
> selenium rectifiers in logic gates.
..and anyone who has restored one knows that the vast majority of the
back-to-back selenium diode packages have to be replaced with something
Gak, 4k ram but 100k via virtual memory TO CASSETTE? I want one just for that.
LOL Was the cassette multi-track with one track containing timing marks, so
records would not overlay each other?
I guess I would argue the definition of a PERSONAL computer is if many or
(preferably) nearly all
First, Dave wrote:
> Date: Thu, 23 May 2024 15:53:53 -0400
> From: Dave Dunfield
> I've just passed on my "Mits Altair 8800" - this is a very historic system
> from the 70s - it is:
> First system Bill Gates wrote code for (long before Microsoft)
Which is on the face of it incorrect.
Then
There was a 4004 based computer developed in 1972 that was released before
the Micral called the Comstar 4. It's not very well known but it was
written about in the ACM and the Computer History Museum has a copy of
their sales manual
ACM article
https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1499949.1499959
Besides nobody fully comprehending what "FIRST" really means, . . .
"The Altair was just an obscure predecessor; the personal computer was invented by
Steve Jobs!" :-)
"How can you call it a 'Personal Computer' with no mouse or Windoze?" :-)
On Fri, 24 May 2024, Don R wrote:
Well the Xerox
Well the Xerox Alto had a three button mouse, making it “extra” personal. ;)
Don Resor
Sent from someone's iPhone
> On May 24, 2024, at 11:53 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 24 May 2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
>>
> Besides nobody fully comprehending what "FIRST"
On 5/24/24 11:49, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
The problem with this debate is that the definition of Personal
Computer is totally fluid
A friend worked with an IBM 4361 at UMSL in St. Louis. It was very
little used as the print and other unit record had a separate unit to
handle that
On Fri, 24 May 2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
This is on the Canonical List of ClassicCmp Debate Topics and is a dead
horse so beaten that there's nothing left but teeth and fur at this point.
Besides nobody fully comprehending what "FIRST" really means, . . .
"The Altair was just an
On Fri, 24 May 2024, Paul Koning wrote:
selenium, which is a very marginal semiconductor. Speaking of which:
some early computers tried to use selenium diodes as circuit elements
(for gates), with rather limited success. The MC ARRA is an example.
The Anita electronic desktop calculators
On Fri, 24 May 2024, CAREY SCHUG wrote:
the LGP-30 was used by one person AT A TIME, but on different days used
by different people, who might or might not know each other, by some
arbitrary scheduling algorithm. The one I was familiar with was run by
a tech or grad student, doing work not
On Fri, 24 May 2024, Sellam Abraham wrote:
On Fri, May 24, 2024, 2:45?AM Christian Corti via cctalk <
This would go back to the 50s or earlier. The LGP-30 and comparable
machines are considered as personal computers, too.
But was it called a "personal computer"? And was it designed to be
> On May 24, 2024, at 1:26 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>
> On 5/24/24 09:52, Paul Koning wrote:
>
>>
>> I once ran into a pre-WW2 data sheet (or ad?) for a transistor, indeed an
>> FET that used selenium as the semiconducting material. Most likely that was
>> the Lilienfeld device.
>
> Could
On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 9:45 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Just pointing out that "firsts" are very difficult.
...
> "First" is a tricky term, like "best".
>
> --Chuck
Yep, which is part of the canonical debate ;) This is why I and many
others in the hobby
On 5/24/24 09:52, Paul Koning wrote:
>
> I once ran into a pre-WW2 data sheet (or ad?) for a transistor, indeed an FET
> that used selenium as the semiconducting material. Most likely that was the
> Lilienfeld device.
Could also have been a device from Oskar Heil in the 1930s.
What really
> On May 24, 2024, at 12:45 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> ...
> Just pointing out that "firsts" are very difficult. Even though, for
> years, Shockley et al were trumpeted as the "inventors of the
> transistor", it's noteworthy that their patent application was carefully
> worded
The problem with this debate is that the definition of Personal Computer
is totally fluid and can be written so that the writers opinion is fact.
Each computer system has contributed, in some way, to those that followed.
If you really want say what is the first "personal" computing machine
On 5/24/24 09:14, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
> This is on the Canonical List of ClassicCmp Debate Topics and is a dead
> horse so beaten that there's nothing left but teeth and fur at this point.
>
Whatever--the MITS 8800 only I/O was a bunch of switches and LEDs. While
an I/O card could
At 07:50 AM 5/24/2024, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote:
>Surely the code written for Traf-O-Data, before Altair BASIC, counts as a
>commercial product; I'm not sure what definition of "published" you're
>using here.
They didn't sell Traf-o-data, did they? I thought it was a tool they
used to analyze
On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 8:34 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On 5/24/24 07:57, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote:
>
> > (I could be mistaken about the mentioned 8008 device, but I think that
> was a training device, no?)
>
> Do your homewoork--the MCM-70 ran APL, had
On 5/24/24 07:57, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote:
> (I could be mistaken about the mentioned 8008 device, but I think that was a
> training device, no?)
Do your homewoork--the MCM-70 ran APL, had cassette storage and a
display and keyboard. The MITS 8800 had nothing other than RAM and a
CPU.
c'mon guys, the altair was the first device with a CPU chip and memory
--marketed to INDIVIDUALS, with the expectation that only one person or one
related family will use it
--intended to be for GENERAL PURPOSE
Two, IMHO, requirements for a PERSONAL COMPUTER. Note that a "personal
computer"
> On May 24, 2024, at 10:40 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> ...
> But it doesn't meet the other criteria Dave laid out. Most people these
> days have never heard of the Micral, but even normies might've heard of the
> Altair 8800 because of the very notoriety it has today because
On Fri, May 24, 2024, 2:45 AM Christian Corti via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 May 2024, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> > On 5/23/24 12:53, Dave Dunfield via cctalk wrote:
> >> First Personal Computer (long before IBM PC)
>
> This would go back to the 50s or earlier. The LGP-30 and
On Fri, May 24, 2024, 07:47 Dave Dunfield via cctalk
wrote:
>
> -- Christian Corti -- on "Bill Gates first code"
> >Didn't he write code for DEC machines at his school before that?
>
> I'm sure he wrote code before Mits BASIC - everyone writes lots of stuff as
> they learn - but as far as I have
On Thu, 23 May 2024, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 5/23/24 12:53, Dave Dunfield via cctalk wrote:
First Personal Computer (long before IBM PC)
This would go back to the 50s or earlier. The LGP-30 and comparable
machines are considered as personal computers, too.
First system Bill Gates wrote
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