> I think the point has gotten across and the people who are reading
> this and care enough will at least take the time to research it a bit
> before doing it or talk to their vet about it a bit more or be more
> selective in choosing their vet.
Amen, we can certainly agree on that. And for the
Sorry I don't have time to read all that, gotta get back to work & we are never
gunna agree... if we were in person then it might be better so that things
aren't getting lost in how they are said and we are just going in circles at
this point.
I think the point has gotten across and the people
> only if you also agree
> not to say that it's not just peachy keen and fine to declaw kittens
oops, not sure how that double-negative got in there, obviously I meant "if you
agree not to say that it's just peachy keen and fine..."
> You have not lol... You just keep going on about your imaginary
> studies and biased web sites..
Oh right, I forgot that in your mind to respect you means I have to agree with
you. Well, you are doing such an amazing job at this point of contradicting
your own statements, I'm not sure I need
"I respect your opinion and experience whether I disagree with your conclusions
or not...but just as you feel that you should be given the respect of someone
with years of education and experience is due, so too I feel that just because
someone does not have the same level of experience and does
On Dec 26, 2007 8:11 PM, Larry Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Since you all are starting to throw around studies, here's a set of 43
> articles/etc., that I pulled from scholar.google.com.
> http://tinyurl.com/2gd9z3
One more than necessary!
Seriously tho, I think cats should be clawed, roa
> Sean
> I wasn't meaning to come off that way, really and you know I can't
> write for crap so people understand & you know that.
Hhm, I'm assuming this post is in reply to mine...Mary Jo, not Sean. For what
it's worth, I respect your opinion and experience whether I disagree with your
conclus
Ketamine is basically synthetic pcp and if you don't have a moderately long
surgery where the post ketamine anesthetic is isoflourine or whatever they have
today then the "wake up" is a pretty crazy seen and that is where a lot of
people assume its a painful wake up but its not, it's just result
Since you all are starting to throw around studies, here's a set of 43
articles/etc., that I pulled from scholar.google.com.
http://tinyurl.com/2gd9z3
Aside from the varous letters to journal editors ( a very interesting read in
themselves, but not usually peer reviewed to the same extent as an
Sean
I wasn't meaning to come off that way, really and you know I can't write for
crap so people understand & you know that. But I wish you would have come to me
and asked me or talked with me about it before flying off the hook.
I wasn't really trying to say that i am completely right because o
> I know Sean is pissed and ur pissed but again i am just coming at it
> from years of schooling and over a decade in the field.
For what's it's worth, I'm not pissed off because you disagree with me or take
a different position on the issue...if I required the entire world to agree
with everyt
On Dec 24, 2007 7:06 PM, Dave l <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> lol yeah i am a real peach!
Dave, no offense, but reading this thread has been sorta like watching
that episode of The Tick staring the Sewer Urchin.
I thought it was an excellent exchange. I actually sorta thought that
Mary Jo was ac
yr sweet :)
lol yeah i am a real peach!
~|
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Archive:
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On Dec 24, 2007 5:14 PM, Dave l <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ok 1 last thing lol
>
> you guys need to remember something, before you get all pissed off and all
> this & think i hate animals and just want to mutilate them...
>
> Remember and know now this.. Do you have any idea on not only the year
ok 1 last thing lol
you guys need to remember something, before you get all pissed off and all this
& think i hate animals and just want to mutilate them...
Remember and know now this.. Do you have any idea on not only the years of time
getting an education but also all the sacrifices of perso
I know I use the web one too and it is a bit temperamental..
Honestly Mary & Sean I am not trying to piss you off or be an asshole but I
should be allowed to state the experiences I have had just like you 2 can.
anyways... lets be done and all enjoy the holidays
> Aggh, sorry for the mostly
"Then perhaps the next time the topic comes up you should not reply the way you
did originally which essentially was "if you have furniture you are worried
about and your cat is still a kitten, go for it"
I responded with that because the unfortunate truth is that is the usual reason
why people
>I disagree. For many people, it's "easier" to pay for the declaw
>surgery than spend the time to train the cat appropriate behavior.
>People tend to take shortcuts because time is often more important
>than money. Of course, just turning the cat out on the street is
>usually the laziest approach,
I responded because of the way that you put it because your statement wasn't an
accurate one at all, it was an opinion and being that I have pretty damn good
first hand knowledge of it, I felt that I should say something.
And No i am not all for it... I am not for doing adult cats at all but I a
> -Original Message-
> From: Sean Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 2:59 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: getting a cat for the first time!
>
> On Dec 24, 2007 11:43 AM, Jim Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > I
On Dec 24, 2007 11:43 AM, Jim Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I know that many people consider pets "pert of the family" but I'm not sure
> if that's as common as some people would like to think. I know it probably
> seems backward but a cat that's gotten declawed has already been shown a
> lev
> -Original Message-
> From: Dana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 1:48 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: getting a cat for the first time!
>
> wait a minute -- a majority? I have been trying to stay out of this
> but -- a majority?
&
Aggh, sorry for the mostly duplicate post...I use the web interface and it's
been a bit flaky of late, sometimes posts not showing up, and then others like
this showing up many hours after it was sent (and of course, just a short time
after I assumed it was lost and thus reposted a similar messa
wait a minute -- a majority? I have been trying to stay out of this
but -- a majority?
I do animal rescue work, specifically with pets that need a new home
on an emergency basis, and I have never seen a declawed cat. My
typical project is someone who broke up with the significant other and
had to
> I found this site about declawing, while just like any other site it
> is how the author wanted it to be and the author didn't have the
> education in the field that I do
And I could just as easily give you a site that is by someone with *more*
knowledge in the field than this person, there a
>Again you keep thinking I am all for this and I am not and I dont fucking know
>any other way to tell you that and have you actually understand it.
Then perhaps the next time the topic comes up you should not reply the way you
did originally which essentially was "if you have furniture you are
I found this site about declawing, while just like any other site it is how the
author wanted it to be and the author didn't have the education in the field
that I do (i have a ALT, AHT, and Associates for teaching in Agricultural
Science specializing in Emergency & Trauma Care & Orthopedic Surg
"There's something fundamentally wrong with your math: 25% is what we
call a "minority", not a majority..."
Just saying its a pretty big # probably almost as much as the % of cats that
are fixed. That is still 1 in 4 cat owners does it.. that is pretty high. But
that ISN"T saying that the "major
"Since you've now moved on to personal attacks like this"
How is that a personal attack? You are looking at only the negative parts of it
and that is all you are posting about, at least I am trying to cover both sides.
"I never mentioned a spay, only a neuter (caster). While you may be able to
d
On Dec 23, 2007 8:46 PM, Dave l <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> for you maybe but a majority of people don't think like that and that is a
> lot of people.. I saw somewhere that 25% of pet cats are declawed and for
> whatever their reasons are they think it is necessary whether you or I agree.
Ther
Well you also have pet hospitals that will advertise that they don't do it just
to get the business whether they actual do the proceddure or not. If people
actually knew what went on in a lot of hospitals they would be appalled.
If a lot of these people just saw how you had to restrain a cat for
Sean I am not pitting out my personal views as I have mention now about 3000
times, I am using the medical view of most vet clinics.
"i.e., try everything else first - declawing is a last resort."
Ok.. AGAIN.. you are talking about a small fraction of the people who will do
this, the average cat
> Part of your problem is that you choose to look at only the positive
> parts of the things you agree with and only the negative things of the
> ones you disagree with.
Since you've now moved on to personal attacks like this, I'm not sure this is
even worth my time to reply to...particularly s
Hmm...something that would affect corporate money from a purely
capitalist point of view if banned outright, is viewed as
'inconclusive' in the United States.
Same thing is banned in several other developed nations of the world...
Hmm...who to believe...who to believe...
On Dec 23, 2007 9:08 PM,
On Dec 23, 2007 4:30 PM, Dave l <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> fyi~ just something from the American Veterinary Medical Association official
> policy on Declawing of domestic cats(below). This is from the AVMA and I
> would belief it a hell of a lot more than some lady with a web site and an
> opi
> fyi~ just something from the American Veterinary Medical Association
> official policy on Declawing of domestic cats(below). This is from the
> AVMA and I would belief it a hell of a lot more than some lady with a
> web site and an opinion.
Well, it's hardly just "some lady". There are many s
fyi~ just something from the American Veterinary Medical Association official
policy on Declawing of domestic cats(below). This is from the AVMA and I would
belief it a hell of a lot more than some lady with a web site and an opinion.
"There is no scientific evidence that declawing leads to beha
Part of your problem is that you choose to look at only the positive parts of
the things you agree with and only the negative things of the ones you disagree
with.
And you still don't get the fact that I am not saying to go out and fucking
declaw every cat out there. I will say it again since y
This is why cats need toys. I shudder to think what he is doing while I am
away if he did not have some way to entertain himself. Perhaps my couch
would be shredded by now?
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7229C4EBC9781EA0
~~~
>Well... I agree totally that declawing is a last resort issue, but I think
>there's one very clear benefit to the animal: it stays alive.
Not always...that's part of the issue. If a cat is declawed and develops other
issues as a result, they will likely be put to sleep as a result. Versus a cat
> -Original Message-
> From: Mary Jo Sminkey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 2:23 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: getting a cat for the first time!
>
> Well, I for one am not participating in this ridiculous discussion
> anymore
Well, I for one am not participating in this ridiculous discussion anymore.
Anyone that compares a surgery with *no* benefits whatsoever for the animal
with surgeries like spaying and neutering, or giving vaccines, which have
well-known and documented benefits for the animal, both medical and be
Well I would certainly believe the things I have seen with my own eyes over
someone's opinions and while true mine are also opinion based at least they are
based upon first hand knowledge. You were a vet ast, ok And you base part of
your argument on seeing the cat wake up and flop around and try
wouldn't the cat try to eat these? Or at least chew them off? But then
mine was born in a barn, literally and hunts for himself; he just
tolerates us cause we provide a warm place to sleep ';P
On Dec 22, 2007 12:18 PM, Paul Ihrig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> dont do it...
> just get the rubber cl
I won't even reply to some of the more absurd comparisons in your post, like
comparing being against a surgery like declawing to some of the radical peta
policies of releasing animals. You seem to be saying with such comparisons that
declawing is *better* for the cat that just leaving them as th
dont do it...
just get the rubber claw covers.
you can get them that glow in teh dark!
~|
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> The difference in how you do it between an adult and a kitten is total
> different.
So you have no problems then if we came around and chopped off your fingers
from the first joint up. and then require you to walk around on your hands
while they heal...
no problem then, let me get my axe an
http://www.talktothevet.com/ARTICLES/CATS/catdeclawing.HTM
http://www.declawing.com/
http://declaw.lisaviolet.com/
I'd be interested in seeing some documentation that there's nothing
wrong with Declawing,
and it's fine for the cats. :)
On Dec 22, 2007 4:20 AM, Dave l <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
The difference in how you do it between an adult and a kitten is total
different.
Yes you are removing part of the "finger", just like when young males get part
of their pecker whacked off, so I guess that if a male is circumcised that he
is going to have behavioral issues. Now go back to t
> The studies you refer to are on adult cats, in which case I agree that
> declawing is not the right thing to do. It is painful and once a cat
> understands the uses of it's claws (scratching, fighting, etc..) it
> can cause behavioral issues.
I am not referring to any particular studies. I'd
On Dec 21, 2007 2:09 PM, Dave l <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The studies you refer to are on adult cats, in which case I agree that
> declawing is not the right thing to do. It is painful and once a cat
> understands the uses of it's claws (scratching, fighting, etc..) it can cause
> behavioral
"1. PLEASE don't declaw your cat without seriously trying everything else
first. It's cruel and inhumane and often leads to various behavior issues. You
didn't mention anything about this, but so many people do it without even
trying other options, thought I'd mention it. Particularly if you int
On 12/19/07, Greg Morphis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Okay, so I've 'owned' a cat as a kid but the wife and I saw a
> beautiful little kitten at the vet (it was a stray).
> It will be my first actual owned cat that I will have to help take care
> of.
> Anyways, please help.. what to get for it?
Ok,
1) when you bring kitty home isolate him/her in one area of the house for a
week or two, let the dog smell the cat's scent but not get near her. The cat
is the unknown quantity here.
2) after about a week or two let the cat out to roam, just make sure she can
get back to where ever you had h
> -Original Message-
> From: Mary Jo Sminkey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 2:13 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: getting a cat for the first time!
>
> >He does love the window sill in the front picture window... but he was
> a
On Dec 19, 2007 11:00 PM, Mary Jo Sminkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, you're on the right track there, particularly staying away from the
> stuff that has lots of grain in it. I personally though won't buy food with
> stuff like "by-products" in it. That's basically a way of saying all the
>Claws are harder. We got him a scratching thing and he does use it
One scratching post is seldom enough. Cats are supremely lazy and they simply
will not go far to scratch if there is something perfectly useful nearby. ;-)
When I first got my cat, I had scratching posts in just about every roo
>We picked up Iams for kittens, it had Chicken and then Chicken by
>products before the fillers.. most the other stuff had brewers rice or
>corn at the top of the list.
Well, you're on the right track there, particularly staying away from the stuff
that has lots of grain in it. I personally thou
>I did not see if anyone mentioned it (skimmed over the responses), but
>spay/neuter your cat if it has not been done already.
Very good point. I do agree that spaying is definitely very important.
>Mary Jo, I did not know about the sisal rope. I have a carpet scratching
>post, and Fred likes
We just got our first real cat and the first pet (besides fish) in our first
home.
(Our last cat was a disguised demon from the lowest level of Hell and we
lived in an apartment. She can't be considered for comparison.)
Our biggest problems have been the litter box and claws.
This animal doesn'
would promote him using it to scratch rather than
> my
> couch, Queen Ann chair and carpet.
>
> Oh, and it will be fun to see what the cat does when the sheltie grows up.
> LOL.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Mary Jo Sminkey
> S
ld promote him using it to scratch rather than my
> couch, Queen Ann chair and carpet.
>
> Oh, and it will be fun to see what the cat does when the sheltie grows up.
> LOL.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Mary Jo Sminkey
> Sent: Wednes
-Community
Subject: Re: getting a cat for the first time!
>Okay, so I've 'owned' a cat as a kid but the wife and I saw a
>beautiful little kitten at the vet (it was a stray).
How nice of you to adopt it! Here's some tips in addition to the others:
1. PLEASE don't de
>Okay, so I've 'owned' a cat as a kid but the wife and I saw a
>beautiful little kitten at the vet (it was a stray).
How nice of you to adopt it! Here's some tips in addition to the others:
1. PLEASE don't declaw your cat without seriously trying everything else first.
It's cruel and inhumane an
Congrats. My cat was not a stray per-se, was born under my home and lived
there for the first year of his life before I took him in. He had a brother
and a sister, but they did not make it out here in the desert. Fred survived
his first year, so he is a keeper. I love Fred to death. He is a good
co
On 12/19/07, Greg Morphis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Okay, so I've 'owned' a cat as a kid but the wife and I saw a
> beautiful little kitten at the vet (it was a stray).
Get a bunch of little toys and look for them under the couch every day as
they tend to disappear there often.
They make
My dog and cat hang around the house all day when we're at work. They get
along pretty good, but even if yours don't (I have had the combo where both
definitely didn't), in my experience they peacefully co-exist during the day
together. They stay out of each other's way, in other words.
I have a
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