Adrocknaphobia wrote:
Jochem: I think the website is to blame for both parts. All sites
should be cross-browser compliant.
What is your definition of 'cross-browser compliant'?
All I was saying is from a 508
standpoint it is a poor example, the fundamental objective of 508 is
to provide
, Dave Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ctrl-mousewheel works in FF :P
-Original Message-
From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 2:03 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Section 508 Compliance
Kinda ironic, but it should be noted that section508.gov
A client is asking us about having their website coded for the disabled.
I'm assuming he's talking about Section 508 compliance. Can anyone point
me
in the right direction for this?
Yes Section 508 is accessibility in the USin Canada it's a different set
of rules that cover a lot of the
http://www.section508.gov/
On 6/20/05, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A client is asking us about having their website coded for the disabled.
I'm assuming he's talking about Section 508 compliance. Can anyone point me
in the right direction for this?
Russ
http://www.section508.gov/
On 6/20/05, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Also, since the Bobby compliance checker is no longer free, take a look at the
CSE HTML Validator (http://www.htmlvalidator.com). It does a nice job of
checking your generated HTML for 508 compliance.
--
Michael Wolfe
Kinda ironic, but it should be noted that section508.gov isn't a very
good example of 508 compliancy itself. The biggest glaring mistake is
using an external mechanism outside the browser to adjust the text
size. If someone has poor vision, they aren't going to try and located
the mechanism on the
Russ wrote:
A client is asking us about having their website coded for the disabled.
I'm assuming he's talking about Section 508 compliance. Can anyone point me
in the right direction for this?
and for information on using Macromedia tools to better support
those regulations, as well as
The 508 check within Dreamweaver is quite good, and will cover most
corporate needs.
-Adam
On 6/20/05, John Dowdell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Russ wrote:
A client is asking us about having their website coded for the disabled.
I'm assuming he's talking about Section 508 compliance. Can
Ctrl-mousewheel works in FF :P
-Original Message-
From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 2:03 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Section 508 Compliance
Kinda ironic, but it should be noted that section508.gov isn't a very
good example of 508 compliancy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ctrl-mousewheel works in FF :P
-Original Message-
From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 2:03 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Section 508 Compliance
Kinda ironic, but it should be noted that section508.gov isn't a very
Adrocknaphobia wrote:
From: Adrocknaphobia
Kinda ironic, but it should be noted that section508.gov isn't a very
good example of 508 compliancy itself. The biggest glaring mistake is
using an external mechanism outside the browser to adjust the text
size.
Interesting. Unfortunately Mozilla
Interesting. Unfortunately Mozilla is lacking in other
areas for 508
that I've tested. Like the inability to enlarge radio
buttons and
checkboxes. It will enlarge the text on a form, but leave
checkboxes
and radio buttons tiny, only enlarging the box around
them.
Afaik MSIE doesn't change
Jochem: I think the website is to blame for both parts. All sites
should be cross-browser compliant. All I was saying is from a 508
standpoint it is a poor example, the fundamental objective of 508 is
to provide the same access to information, regardless of disability...
and regardless of thier
Isaac. width: 1500 is a fixed size. trying using ems and
changing the text size in the browser. Rachel (my css
purist fiance) gave me a lecture on it, growing a checkbox
to the entire size of the browser. The same code in mozilla
just enlarged the box model around the checkbox but the
The Web Developer Toolbar in FF has a vaalidate 508 tool on it, not
sure how accurate it is, but it comes up with some sensible
suggestions.
On 6/21/05, S. Isaac Dealey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Isaac. width: 1500 is a fixed size. trying using ems and
changing the text size in the browser.
The Web Developer Toolbar in FF has a vaalidate 508 tool on it, not
sure how accurate it is, but it comes up with some sensible
suggestions.
Yes, that's the CynthiaSays Tool, similar to the old Bobby validator. If you
don't use FF and the WD toolbar (why not?!) it can be found directly at:
Bobby was replaced with WebXACT which has a real comprehensive set of
tests too.
Oops, sorry about that, actual URL for WebXACT is:
http://webxact.watchfire.com
Mary Jo Sminkey
http://www.cfwebstore.com
CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce
Dave Watts said:
It's worth noting that pages that depend on CSS positioning often
aren't readable without the style sheet.
But is that because it is impossible to use both CSS positioning and
make them readable without the style sheet, or because the developer
has a priorities issue? If you
It's worth noting that pages that depend on CSS positioning often
aren't readable without the style sheet.
But is that because it is impossible to use both CSS positioning and
make them readable without the style sheet, or because the developer
has a priorities issue? If you believe it is
words come to mind), that mixed content with presentation
and those aren't readable I agree.
_
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 10:21 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Section 508
A page can be styled in CSS using positioning, etc. and still
Dave Watts wrote:
It's worth noting that pages that depend on CSS positioning often
aren't readable without the style sheet.
But is that because it is impossible to use both CSS positioning and
make them readable without the style sheet, or because the developer
has a priorities issue? If
Jeremy Brodie wrote:
b) Design using styles without tables. One of the latest trends (especally if one reads Zeldman) is using CSS without tables. From a W3 acessablity point of view, this would be the proper way of creating accessability web sites. The DIV, P, and Hx tags would be overridden
Sacramento, CA
-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 6:39 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Section 508
Jeremy Brodie wrote:
b) Design using styles without tables. One of the latest trends (especally if one reads Zeldman
Jeremy Brodie wrote:
I'll explain by example.
For example the wired.com front page only uses stylesheets for mark-up and positioning, using just DIV, P, SPAN and Header tags attached to IDs. (This page uses best practices from accessablity point of view according to the W3). If one were to
Actually that is not true,Wired hides some content via styles that only
comes out when you are not using styles.
// Pulled from Wired's site with styles turned off.
Note: You are reading this message either because you can not see our css
files (served from Akamai for performance reasons), or
: Re: Section 508
Jeremy Brodie wrote:
I'll explain by example.
For example the wired.com front page only uses stylesheets for mark-up and
positioning, using just DIV, P, SPAN and Header tags attached to IDs. (This
page uses best practices from accessablity point of view according to the
W3
Actually a better example of what you are trying to say is ESPN's site.
They don't offer skip links, their top navigation is still graphical.
However this is a development or management issue.If you compare the
differences between wired and espn, you can see the difference easily.
Part of the
, January 15, 2004 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: Section 508
Actually that is not true,Wired hides some content via styles that only
comes out when you are not using styles.
// Pulled from Wired's site with styles turned off.
Note: You are reading this message either because you can not see our css
files
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Section 508
Excellent points.
What's your take on a skipnav link vs placing the navigation in a div lower
in the code and using positioning to place it at the top for display?
For people considering doing a skipnav, we use an include that we call at
the top of every page
You're preaching to the already converted. :-)
I was just asking about an implementation detail.
-Kevin
- Original Message -
From: Sandy Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:31 AM
Subject: RE: Section 508
I use both.
People might
It's worth noting that pages that depend on CSS positioning
often aren't readable without the style sheet.
But is that because it is impossible to use both CSS
positioning and make them readable without the style sheet,
or because the developer has a priorities issue? If
that it can't be done
write when I think he's arguing that it's often done wrong.
Jim Davis
_
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:43 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Section 508
Jeremy Brodie wrote:
I'll explain by example.
For example
Jim Davis said:
I think you're missing the point a little, Jochem (it's not often
that you do tho', so we'll give you credit.;^))In fact I think
we're arguing the same thing.
We're not arguing against the tools (CSS).
The original comment reads:
(d) Documents shall be organized so they are
be the first
time.;^)
Jim Davis
_
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 3:14 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Section 508
Jim Davis said:
I think you're missing the point a little, Jochem (it's not often
that you do tho', so we'll give you credit
There are a number of new developers where I work who have no
clue as to what Section 508 is or what they need to be
compliant. I have been spending time with each one
individually, giving them examples, providing links, etc. but
the message does not seem to be getting through.
There was a
http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/guide/1194.22.htm
-Kevin
- Original Message -
From: Haggerty, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:13 PM
Subject: Section 508
There are a number of new developers where I work who have no clue as to
Being from the UK, I had no idea what Section 508 stood for so a quick
google took me to the Section508.gov site so now I know
Now I like to scoll down pages using the keyboard either with the up/down
arrows or the page up/down keys Is it just me or do they not work on
this site
Being from the UK, I had no idea what Section 508 stood for
so a quick google took me to the Section508.gov site so now I know
I'm originally from the UK and I knew what 508 was... And I knew before
I had to deal with a US based client
I'm originally from the UK and I knew what 508 was... And I knew before
I had to deal with a US based client
Just for the record, not being aware of the actual name of the legislation
doesn't mean you dont know it's there!!
Paul
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navigation.
-Kevin
- Original Message -
From: Paul Vernon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:39 PM
Subject: RE: Section 508
Being from the UK, I had no idea what Section 508 stood for so a quick
google took me to the Section508.gov site
2. Even though it may cause an accessibility problem, it's not technically
broken by 508 guidelines. Nothing in 508 requires support for keyboard
navigation.
Wow, that is poor! My step-mother has Retinitis Pigmentosa (RP) and was
diagnosed with it when she was 11 or 12. She lost her sight
I'm originally from the UK and I knew what 508 was... And I knew
before I had to deal with a US based client
Just for the record, not being aware of the actual name of
the legislation doesn't mean you dont know it's there!!
But there's enough talk on the lists and the Internet about the
Seriously, I'm subscribed to quite a few lists and this is the first time
I've seen a reference to it using 'Section 508' rather than just being
referred to as something like 'the new accessibility laws'.
Paul
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This is really cool.Thanks.
-Original Message-
From: Philip Arnold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:22 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Section 508
There are a number of new developers where I work who have no
clue as to what Section 508 is or what they need
, 2004 2:07 PM
Subject: RE: Section 508
2. Even though it may cause an accessibility problem, it's not technically
broken by 508 guidelines. Nothing in 508 requires support for keyboard
navigation.
Wow, that is poor! My step-mother has Retinitis Pigmentosa (RP) and was
diagnosed with it when she
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Section 508
Seriously, I'm subscribed to quite a few lists and this is the first time
I've seen a reference to it using 'Section 508' rather than just being
referred to as something like 'the new accessibility laws'.
Paul
_
[Todays Threads]
[This Message
For accessibility in general, go to
http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/support/Training/Online/webdesign/accessibility.ht
ml
My blog also covers accessibility and I am currently starting on writing
articles which takes on each item in 508 and the WCAG and breaks down how to
apply them.
(Only one article
, 2004 2:59 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Section 508
cf_darth
The irony is strong in this one.
/cf_darth
Two things to note:
1. It's caused by the unnecessary overflow: auto on the body in their CSS.
2. Even though it may cause an accessibility problem, it's not technically
broken by 508 guidelines
]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: Section 508
It's interesting that someone mentioned nothing in 508 requires support
for keyboard navigation.
I was discussing 508 with a co-worker here who had been studying up on it
for some time, when he got
Jeremy Brodie wrote:
(d) Documents shall be organized so they are readable without requiring an associated style sheet.
Comment: The W3 tells us to use stylesheets for asseability purposes! This item takes web design a step backwards instead of forwards.
Why would it take design a step
style sheet then its unlikely to
be legible with an accessibility sheet either.
At least that's the way I took the recommendation.
Jim Davis
_
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:13 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Section 508
Jeremy Brodie
.
_
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:13 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Section 508
Jeremy Brodie wrote:
(d) Documents shall be organized so they are readable without requiring an
associated style sheet.
Comment: The W3 tells us to use
14, 2004 8:30 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Section 508
That paragraph actually means that you can't write content to a document via
something like _javascript_ and CSS (ie DHTML).
for instance, if you were using DHTML to open a layer in which _javascript_
wrote something using document.write
A page can be styled in CSS using positioning, etc. and still be
completely readable when style sheets are turned off.
It's worth noting that pages that depend on CSS positioning often aren't
readable without the style sheet.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
phone:
Haggerty, Mike wrote:
There are a number of new developers where I work who have no clue as to
what Section 508 is or what they need to be compliant. I have been
spending time with each one individually, giving them examples,
providing links, etc. but the message does not seem to be getting
Actually that's what I meant. should have read unreadable - which is,
itself, an awful say to say it.
Jeeze I'm tired.;^)
Jim Davis
_
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 10:21 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Section 508
A page can be styled
Are you talking commerical world?
Here in the DoD world, its a given that you have to be compliant so all we
put is a link at the bottom that says 508 Compliant or Accessbility
Compliant and we link it to an information page.
Don't know if there is anything on the federal government 508 site
No, there's no badge. If you want one for your product, perhaps you have
an entreprenurial opportunity!
As you probably know, the official site for 508 is: http://section508.gov/
(A CF/Fusebox site to boot.) I really like their simple Guide to 508:
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