see how
> this is a problem. They are beginners and naturally there will be many
> things that fail their intuition.
> Compiler auto injection on postfix magic I'm strongly opposed to.
>
> @Alex thanks for your long reply yesterday and the statistics! I'll get
> ba
I think the issue is not with the lack of def-, but with the use of metadata
for private, as well as the presence of defn-.
Becauae defn- exists, most newcomers think that postfix - on var defining
special forms, macros and fns is how you mark things as private.
But its not, defn- is a syntacti
Don't fully understand what you are doing, but when you run test.check, it
seems to not always be generating random sample, it'll grow the samples.
When you run sample, it'll always start back from the beginning.
You can see that by running:
(sgen/sample (s/gen ::test) 100)
See how the generat
as a dependency with:
clj -Sdeps "{:deps {org.clojure/spec.alpha {:mvn/version \"0.1.143\"}}}"
But I thought Spec was part of Clojure 1.9, and should be auto-imported no?
On Monday, 26 February 2018 22:23:00 UTC-8, Didier wrote:
>
> There was a small bug with the inst
There was a small bug with the install script around the man pages for me
on a fresh openSuse Tumbleweed install.
/usr/local/share/man/man1 did not exist. Specifically, /usr/local/share/man
did not exist, so I had to manually mkdir it first, and re-run the
installer, which only checked for the
>
> I’d even be happy if the default was private for def
>
I actually prefer private everything by default. Its the public things you
want to be reminded to think through carefully. And Var access is pretty
straightforward, in case your using a lib and they forgot to make something
public you
I don't see a huge problem with adding def-
I think its omission relates to the mantra Encapsulation of information is
folly. And thus its trying to discourage you from using private state and
namespaces as classes? Maybe?
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n this working:
> (zipmap (keys m) (vals m)), you will never get a jumbling of keys and
> values. Most of the time when people call seq on a set or map they want to
> iterate over it, and that's fine.
>
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Didier >
> wrote:
>
>>
>
> is there a way round it?
>
Something else I need to point out is that you really should not use a Set
for order. Sets are specifically unordered, and provide no guarantees of
order. Try calling first, second and last on #{1 2 3} for example, you'll
probably get things back in a different
n github and look at the Java source to
see what types they work with, such as
:
https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/RT.java#L524
Hope this helps.
Didier
On Saturday, 24 February 2018 07:15:02 UTC-8, Alan Forrester wrote:
>
> Calling (first #{1}) gives
eally needed too.
On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 18:47:20 UTC-8, Alex Miller wrote:
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 at 7:34:00 PM UTC-6, Didier wrote:
>>
>> I would actually love it if Spec was extended to have the concept of
>> types.
>>
>
&g
I would actually love it if Spec was extended to have the concept of types.
Something where every spec could be tied to a Type, and types could be
constructed to have Hierarchies.
Not sure what the syntax would be like, but say:
(s/def :String ::name string?)
(s/def :String ::address (s/and str
Looks good, congrats!
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@Justin to define contracts like that, spec is probably the best tool. Just
agree on a spec for a set of functions in your namespace and then your
co-worker can code to the spec.
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This is awesome! I'll definitly give it a shot. Thanks for putting it together.
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say the V8 design.
Which one of those three things (or possible combination is it) is what I'm
trying to seek answer for here.
Thanks everyone,
Didier
On Thursday, 25 January 2018 12:53:03 UTC-8, tbc++ wrote:
>
> Really, any comparisons between JS and JVM startup times are not usefu
I noticed the wikipedia entry for Clojure is marked as having multiple
issues:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clojure
Would be great if a kind mind would attempt to improve it. I may give it a
shot next time I have some free time, but others are welcome to beat me to
the punch.
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Based on the profiling performed here
http://clojure-goes-fast.com/blog/clojures-slow-start/ on 1.9,
It looks like clojure/core__init.load is the slowest bit with load and
requiring spending the most time on, as well as loadClass, followed by
clojure/lang/Var.invoke.
Wouldn't ClojureScript als
oes some extra tricks to keep this upfront cost down that
> are v8-specific:
> https://anmonteiro.com/2016/11/the-fastest-clojure-repl-in-the-world/
>
> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 6:20 PM Didier >
> wrote:
>
>> This link:
>> https://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Impr
With macros I believe you get compile time check, ie, static checking. This is
because the input to a macro is availaible at compile time, so spec just
validates it on macro-expanssion.
You can use test.check to instrument a generative test to test the expanded
code too if you want.
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Hum, could you show me an example use of it, I'm having a hard time
understanding how.
I also stumbled upon a use case where we have a multi-spec of keys spec. And
each one needs to have a key with same name, yet a different spec to it, only
for some of their keys. Could keys* be used for that
| I didn't fully grasp the difference between self-reducible collections v.s.
other ones (in this context, and in general). Can you please delineate?
I think this means that collections which implement CollReduce have an
implementation of reduce which is faster than just calling first and next
Just realized that: tryclj.com is gone.
I wonder if clojure.org could come to the rescue, and add a try-me web repl
on it. I feel like tryclj when I first got started and became interested
was a great gateway.
repl.it is just a little too bloated for my liking as a replacement.
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If I have a function that takes a destructured map, what's the best way to
spec that function, so that the values of the keys in my map are also
specced? The best I've got right now is
(s/keys :req-un [::a ::b ::c])
given
(defn foo [{:keys [a b c]})
But, I'd kind of want the names of the keys
s/def docs says: "Given a namespace-qualified keyword or resolvable symbol
..."
But I'm unable to s/def a spec using a resolvable symbol:
(def foo 123)
(s/def foo int?)
(s/get-spec foo) => nil
(s/get-spec 'foo) => nil
(s/get-spec #'foo) => #object[clojure.spec.alpha$spec_impl$reify__797
0x7215d
g EDN. Someone could build an IDE on top of that, which
never allows you to change the text, but only works directly at the EDN
level with the clojure code as data. It would be a lot of work, but
possible I think.
On Monday, 11 December 2017 16:12:37 UTC-8, Eric Normand wrote:
>
> Hi Didi
Awesome Job!
Now looking forward to spec improving and eventually getting out of alpha!
On Friday, 8 December 2017 13:54:26 UTC-8, Rick Moynihan wrote:
>
> Wow great news... Thanks to everyone who made it happen!!
>
> R.
>
> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017, 21:11 Sergey Didenko, > wrote:
>
>> Congratulation
Warning: This is the spawn of an idea, not very well refined, and that is
little extravagant.
I've been doing some hammock time, and I've been thinking that names in a
programming language are kind of a complecting of two things, the human
readable form, and the machine identifier. What if a fu
Hi there,
Out of pure curiosity, I was wondering if there was any rewrite or equivalent
code out there between Java and Clojure that showed exactly how many LOC you
save from switching to Clojure. Especially for larger endeavour.
Thanks.
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> On Friday, 17 November 2017 16:53:57 UTC, Didier wrote:
>>
>> Why do you return an agent from a function? Can't you just return the map
>> it conatains instead? And spec that?
>
> I want to write a function spec (s/fdef) for a function make-agent that
> takes
Why do you return an agent from a function? Can't you just return the map it
conatains instead? And spec that?
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| One option is to use the non-conforming s/every instead of the conforming
s/coll-of
Why isn't instrument just validating for all spec? Doesn't conform serve no
purpose here?
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That's weird, not sure why you get ClassCastException and not the spec error of
add1.
That said, you can not validate a lazy-seq without realizing it. You can use
s/every? on big collections, that will sample x element and validate only those.
So its normal for coll-of to realize the lazy-seq,
| I think you're assuming you're validating API endpoints where client and
server are tightly coupled. I can imagine a microservices system where some
services put maps on a queue and others consume them. The consumers should
allow keys they don't understand. They and also need to validate that
>
> Eric does raise an interesting question tho
I think so too. I'm still finding it hard to come up with a single example
of why allowing extra keys to validate would ever be useful even for
non-breakage. I can't see how it would break anything.
I believe the only advantage of allowing extr
Hey all,
I'm facing a naming problem, I can't decide how I want to call something
that has a spec.
1. Something that has a spec is said to be *specced.*
2. Something that has a spec is said to be *speced.*
3. Something that has a spec is said to be *specified.*
I'm leaning towards
Yo are looking for indexOf (.indexOf vector value).
(.indexOf ["a" "b"] "b")
=> 1
(.indexOf ["a" "b" "b"] "b")
=> 1
Note how indexOf searches for the index of the first value which matches value.
To do what you ask, is a query over a vector, which requires a search on each
element. This will t
>
> When folks have an app that needs more RAM than a typical server, what is
> the first and most common steps they take?
>
First step would be to put more RAM, if you've maxed out physical RAM, you
can add swap.
I'd also look at reducing the RAM usage first. Are you sure you can't
stream t
Is Clojure 1.9 expected to support JDK9? Or is that support reserved for a
later version?
On Friday, 10 November 2017 10:08:35 UTC-8, Beau Fabry wrote:
>
> We've switched both of our main projects to RC1 and have had no issues yet.
>
> On Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 11:49:07 PM UTC-8, Sean Corf
iases for fully
> qualified keywords, never type out the whole thing.
>
> On Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 11:22:24 PM UTC-8, Didier wrote:
>>
>> I just stumbled upon another potential mistake here. When you have specs
>> split across namespaces. Its possible for a map spec i
I just stumbled upon another potential mistake here. When you have specs
split across namespaces. Its possible for a map spec in one namespace to
have one of its key's use a spec from another namespace. If you forget to
require that other namespace though, you won't know, and your map will
alwa
What's the point of doc strings per arity? Wouldn't (doc fn) just
concatenate them all back into one anyways? Or would you extend it to take
an arity argument?
I think it seems to make sense to add them like that, but usability wise,
when would you be looking at the doc of a single arity by its
I found private/public works fine. I put my public interface at the bottom
of the file with a nice comment header. Using another namespace like .impl,
I've always had the issue that nobody on my team can agree with what the
name convention should be for what an impl namespace should be called 😐,
two lazy-seq share the same head?
On Saturday, 4 November 2017 11:40:54 UTC-7, James Reeves wrote:
>
> On 3 November 2017 at 06:57, Didier >
> wrote:
>
>> Okay, I can see how I can maybe infer some of that by piecing together
>> the code base, but if there was a book, or
Okay, I can see how I can maybe infer some of that by piecing together the code
base, but if there was a book, or a reference somewhere describing more the
implementation of Clojure itself I'd be interested to read it, if there is one
out there. I'd understand if there's not, I know Clojure has
Wow, thanks. Is that all tribal knowledge? Or is there some documentation
around the Clojure interfaces and their semantics somewhere I could read? Maybe
even a Clojure book recommendation that covers this?
So if I understand correctly, withMeta will return a new object which is not
equal to th
>
> FWIW, bigdec? seemed to fit better, given bigdec as a coercion and
> BigDecimal as the underlying type – decimal? always seemed like the anomaly.
>
Thought so too, but since there's no small decimal, or any other decimal,
its survivable. Though it does get a bit confusing, especially since
Hey, I was surprised to find that IMeta does not work for (with-meta).
So it seems that withMeta is added to IObj, which extends IMeta. And it
seems like alterMeta and resetMeta are added in IReference, which also
extends IMeta.
So now if you want to support meta, you have to implement IReferen
Good catch!
On Monday, 30 October 2017 08:27:36 UTC-7, Alex Miller wrote:
>
> Check with Rich and Stu and this was not intentional.
> Ticket filed at CLJ-2259.
> spec.alpha has been updated to move the generator mapping to decimal?
> (released as 0.1.143)
> Clojure 1.9.0-beta4 will remove this p
>
> I will see how the initial build toward having something effective for me
> compares with the ease of Python.
>
Python's focus is on making things easy, not simple. Clojure's focus is on
simplicity.
Lisp's syntax is simple, not easy. So Clojure uses it.
Macros extend the language in simple
Oh, it also follows known values around, and runs them against the specs at
static time. So it can catch some value based errors, like a divide by zero,
given that the value is available at static time too.
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I'm not sure how shen does it, but you should check out Spectrum:
https://github.com/arohner/spectrum
It tries to do static analysis of your Clojure code based on your specs. My
understanding of it is that it considers equal predicates to be a type. The
challenge is knowing that two predicates
I think the Grimoire heatmap is over itself maybe?
core/for being top defs, beating core.map does not match up with crossclj
usage of the two.
On Wednesday, 25 October 2017 23:05:12 UTC-7, Gary Trakhman wrote:
>
> Grimoire has a usage heatmap, I think it just might be over a few
> projects: htt
I also suggests if you want to understand how to compile Clojure without thw
help of tools loke boot or lein, to read those two short tutorials:
1.
http://www.flyingmachinestudios.com/programming/how-clojure-babies-are-made-the-java-cycle/
2.
http://www.flyingmachinestudios.com/programming/how
I think you can use lein-ring or lein-uberwar to package any ring based clojure
web app into a War.
But, a War is just a zip file with a known set of files and directory
structure. So depending on your needs, you could create it yourself too.
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What happens with loops? Say if you spy inside a for?
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t to support "close my (open) specs" at runtime = coercion.
>
> If Runtime Transformations stay out of scope, It would be good to have a
> guide on how to write Spec + (beautiful) clojure transformations for
> web/ring apps. There might be tricks we just haven't thought of
| Spec-tools (https://github.com/metosin/spec-tools) has some tools for this:
the spec visitor (walking over all core specs, e.g. to collect all registered
specs) and map-conformers: fail-on-extra-keys and strip-extra-keys.
I understand the core team wanting to take a minimal approach to spec,
| I would have had to re-spec all the intermediate functions
I'm not able to follow how that is?
You would have only needed this if you are somewhere validating or have setup
test.check to run. In both cases, if you wanted to validate, why don't you also
want to validate this new field? Or why
| we have experienced on virtually every consulting project we'd done
including spec at Cognitect
I'm sure this is sometimes true, but I can't think of how that would happen.
Could you detail it a little?
For me, whenever I needed to add more keys, it was simple to evolve the spec
with the fu
> Even in an impure language such as Common Lisp we frown on such LET forms
True, but as far as I know, in Common Lisp, the condition handler is always in
scope of where the error happened, so I wouldn't face this problem.
I also struggle to split this up into functions without making it even mo
I vote for strict validation also. It's a security threat on most applications
not to strictly validate inputs and outputs. I would rather Clojure defaults to
be secure, and people needing to implement their own less strict validation
consciously. I'm afraid a lot of people will rely on spec for
On Sunday, 1 October 2017 21:00:31 UTC-7, Luke Burton wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2017, at 3:14 PM, Didier >
> wrote:
>
> Is there another way to execute a set of complex steps which does not rely
> on let and can be try/catched in the manner I describe?
>
>
> I can&
I've seen this, I was still curious if the reason I was facing the issue
was that let is simply the wrong tool for my use case or not.
If let is the correct tool, I would propose that clojure.core should had a
try/catch where the catch is in scope of the try. I feel the reason this is
contrived
I'm curious how others handle this use case, which I feel should be pretty
common.
Given you have a series of business process steps, where the flow is too
complex for the arrow macros, and you also like to name the step results
descriptively, so you use let:
(let [a (do-a ...)
b (do-b .
At first I thought the doc was really complicated and hard to understand,
and then I became more familiar with FP and Clojure, and now I think the
doc is perfect, sweet, short and to the point.
What happens with a lot of those higher order functions is that you really
don't understand them unti
specs are almost entirely s/keys
>> and clojure.core predicates.
>>
>> Our fn spec coverage is 47% on the back-end. So the performance impact of
>> instrumentation really hasn't been a concern.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:18:52PM -0700, Didier
> The goal is to add the macro to orchestra, as a tool to help encourage
> spec'ing all functions.
That would be great. My macro for now was also not supporting all defn cases
yet. And it automatically instruments the fn with orchestra. So if orchestra
had a more complete one defacto, I wouldn'
I'd try to call describe on the spec. As far as I know that's the only
introspection feature of spec. See if it returns what you need.
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Note
ase.
>
>
>
> Sean Corfield -- (970) FOR-SEAN -- (904) 302-SEAN
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>
> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> -- Margaret Atwood
>
>
>
> *From: *Didier
> *Sent: *Wedn
You shouod also checkout https://github.com/jgpc42/insn/blob/master/README.md
It was annouced a few weeks back, looks like a nice interface to ASM.
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I'm not fully following what you're doing or trying to do, but don't expect
meta to compose. A lot of macros and functions can strip it away. Its best kept
to annotate global static things.
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e.match pattern-matching with the 'defun'
> project? How about the schema s/defn? How would someone combine them when
> macros generally don't compose too well?
>
> I think that sort of thing should be possible, but too opinionated for how
> 'core' cloju
I've been thinking since using Clojure.spec fdef that I'd like something
like this:
(defns foo
[x string? y int?] string?
forms)
Where an s/fdef spec automatically build of this form:
(s/fdef foo
:args (s/cat :x string? :y int?)
:ret string?))
And obviously the foo var and function w
Oups, nevermind what I said. str just delegates to .toString and doesn't use
*print-readably*. Hum, that is a bit strange then.
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Note that p
Lazy sequences cache their values after the first time they are evaluated.
Since print alters the output of str by binding *print-readably* to false, and
also forces the sequence to realize itself, the values in your sequence are now
cached the the result of str without *print-readably*. In subs
I'm not following 100%. But s/or of specs will comform to the first valid spec
it encounters. It can be used for duck typing, aka, strutural types.
So given you have many maps, each can be a spec. Then you can create a spec
which is one of these shapes of maps. Pass any map to the or spec, and i
If performance is the concern, you won't be able to beat Java with Clojure.
That said, it should be possible to match Java's performance.
On Tuesday, 12 September 2017 09:43:58 UTC-7, darren...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am a researcher of Natural Language Processing.
> My team want to know
I like this one, lots of good stuff. Thanks to everyone who contributed.
On Thursday, 7 September 2017 14:48:51 UTC-7, Alex Miller wrote:
>
> Clojure 1.9.0-alpha20 is now available.
>
> Try it via
>
> - Download:
> https://repo1.maven.org/maven2/org/clojure/clojure/1.9.0-alpha20
> - Leiningen: [o
Clojure is always launched from Java, there's no way to bootstrap straight
into Clojure from the JVM. So when you launch the JVM, it always starts in
a Java main method. What Clojure does normally, is that it creates the Java
main method for you, and have it call your own main method.
So it goe
de
> for using React Native for mobile dev, and ClojureScript's story is very
> good there. But personally I think you'd be nuts to choose JVM Clojure over
> Kotlin for serious Android development.
>
> On 6 September 2017 at 07:04, Didier >
> wrote:
>
>>
Everything tbc++ said,
But also, if you create futures at a faster rate then they terminate, you
will eventually run out of memory, because futures are unbounded. If that's
the case, you want to use ThreadPoolExecutor to create a bounded pool or a
pool backed by a queue and then use it as expla
in the future, but Java is not a pain to use anymore. I
like Kotlin, but its also dumb to have a whole new JVM language works the
same conceptually, just because Java never bothered improving on its quirks
and verbosity.
On Tuesday, 5 September 2017 04:14:33 UTC-7, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>
Kotlin is actually officialy supported on Android, so definitly a good choice
there. That said, if you know Java, C#, C++, Pascal, or even ActionScript 3,
Kotlin brings nothing new to the table conceptually. It does improve on
convenience over Java though. So I'd still recommend you also spent s
Well, in the last 2 years I think React Native has grown quite a bit. I
think if you target Android only, and you need performance, like a game,
going with Java/C is best, or just Unity.
But ClojureScript with ReactNative is great for iOS + Android compatibility
for more normal apps.
I don't t
What might confuse you, is why Clojure even have true? and false? functions?
Its because conditional constructs like if, cond, when, test for truthy (aka
logical true) and falsey (aka logical false), not true and false. Nil and False
are falsey, and everything else is truthy.
Most of the time t
>
> No code called by a go block should ever call the blocking variants of
> core.async functions (!!, alts!!, etc.). So I'd start at the code
> redacted in those lines and go from there.
>
Seems like a good use case for a static code analyser. Maybe a
contribution to https://github.com/jonas
at. Stating "this is a file", "this is a web image". Is just book
>> keeping that doesn't need to be done. Is a map a :image/web? Well check its
>> members and see if they match the spec. If they match, then you have a
>> :image/web. No need for sum types
Thanks for everyone's great input.
Currently, I see the big distinction being concise vs extension. Maybe for
streaming variants would be better as the format would be smaller to transfer
over a wire. And for small short lived programs, or things you know won't need
extension, variants offer a
I can see it be quick and concise for representing events, but that's also
exactly the use case example for
multi-spec: https://clojure.org/guides/spec#_multi_spec
What happens if your event needs more data? Maybe draw needs 2 attributes,
the card and the deck? Now you have implicit encoding, w
Ya, I guess the article says that some DSL uses them, like hiccup, so maybe
its only in the perspective of a DSL you'd need to parse, and not really
for modeling business entities.
Like this:
(s/def ::temp (s/or :one string?
:two int?))
Will conform to a variant:
=> (s/conf
Right, I see things the way tbc++ does, but I'm wondering if I'm missing
some key insights that make variants better.
I similarly struggle with the difference between (s/or) and (s/multi-spec).
If I were to implement the lispcast example today with spec I'd either use
(s/or):
(s/def ::image-ty
I'm reading on http://www.lispcast.com/reduce-complexity-with-variants and
have seen Jeanine's talk on her encoding scheme for sum types, but for some
reason, I'm not convinced of the benefit over a tagged record encoding. I
see that the positional vector or hash-map suggested in the lispcast
a
This looks cool, would it be possible to use this to have a deep nested clojure
map automatically create a Java nesting of pojos? Like each key becomes a field
of an actual class?
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I recently stumbled upon the entity-component-system design pattern which
is popular in game engine
design: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity%E2%80%93component%E2%80%93system,
and really liked what I saw, thought it could be a good fit for Clojure.
Basically, it has three concepts:
1) Compo
I think that paper is from 2015. Curious to hear what are people's thoughts as
to why it didn't replace Clojure's HAMT. I wouldn't mind a free 3x performance
boost and a reduced memory footprint. Is it just a matter of didn't have
someone doing the work, or did it turn out that there was issues
Keep in mind Clojure can be made as fast as Java, it is not by default.
What it is by default is one of the fastest dynamic programming language.
On Sunday, 13 August 2017 11:46:31 UTC-7, Daniel Gerlach wrote:
>
> Thx,
>
> that was it :)
>
> I used the boxed int version ^Integer as a type hint, s
It did for me. It's that Clojure forced me to learn about and practice new ways
to model problems and solution. For example, I'm much better at recursion and
dynamic programming now. Now algorithmic problems are always hard, so there's a
limit to how much better I got because of Clojure, but for
Arrays in Clojure are different to Lists, and its probably why when you pass
arrays to the score fn, that things don't work 100%.
If you can coerce those arrays to a java list it would probably work. You can
do that in js, but if that doesn't work or seem easy, you could have your
-score wrappe
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