Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

On Oct 27, 2009, at 7:41 PM, Hideki Kato wrote: IMHO, Jeff's idea is still very interesting while the implementation by the staff in Numenta have been going to not right direction. That was also my opinion. What I thought was strange is that Numenta's implementation doesn't have feed-back

Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

Mark Boon: <4ec4bc46-e52f-4ac2-a7ff-edaf17de3...@gmail.com>: >On Oct 27, 2009, at 3:39 AM, Hideki Kato wrote: > >> I strongly believe that such patterns must not be only spatial >> (static) but also temporal, ie, dynamic or sequence of pattens which >> allow the player quickly remember the results

Re: [SPAM] Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

Olivier Teytaud: : >I forgot the most important thing around this win against a pro: >this press conference was for the starting of a project, and in this project >we have funding for ph.D. or postdocs. >If there are people interested in a ph.D. or a post-doc around Monte-Carlo >Tree Search, candid

Re: [computer-go] MC hard positions for MCTS

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 01:10:09PM +0100, Stefan Kaitschick wrote: > > >But, has anyone gathered stats on positions, from real games, that > >require precise play by the defender/attacker/both/neither? Is defending > >really easier than attacking? > > > >Darren > > > Who is the defender? > One s

Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 06:32:44PM +0200, Olivier Teytaud wrote: > > > > > > AIUI, once upon N simulations in a node you take let's say the node with > > the lowest value, pick one son of it at random within the tree and start > > a simulation? > > > > I'll try to write it clearly (for binary dete

[computer-go] Re: First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P asblack (game of Go, 9x9).

Stefan Kaitschick wrote: > 29, turning into a won ko, really is a great way to play. > It would be interesting to know if MoGo perceived itself > to be on the home stretch here. > So it would be great to have the bots win rate estimations > as sgf comments. I do not have MoGo at hand. But I ente

Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P asblack (game of Go, 9x9).

29, turning into a won ko, really is a great way to play. It would be interesting to know if MoGo perceived itself to be on the home stretch here. So it would be great to have the bots win rate estimations as sgf comments. Stefan - Original Message - From: Olivier Teytaud To: comp

Re: [SPAM] Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

I forgot the most important thing around this win against a pro: this press conference was for the starting of a project, and in this project we have funding for ph.D. or postdocs. If there are people interested in a ph.D. or a post-doc around Monte-Carlo Tree Search, candidates are welcome (Monte-

Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

On Oct 27, 2009, at 3:39 AM, Hideki Kato wrote: I strongly believe that such patterns must not be only spatial (static) but also temporal, ie, dynamic or sequence of pattens which allow the player quickly remember the results of local fights or L&D. I think that's exactly right. At least for

[computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

Dear all, some comments by my Taiwanese colleagues about the game played by MoGo against the 9p pro: 1) mogoTW finally ran on the 16*8 system on Oct. 26, 2009. 2) Contributors for which I did not know their real name: "Hsien-Der Huang" and "Cheng-Wei Chou" (sorry for them!) 3) Some comments by

Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

> > > AIUI, once upon N simulations in a node you take let's say the node with > the lowest value, pick one son of it at random within the tree and start > a simulation? > I'll try to write it clearly (for binary deterministic games, extensions can be shown but they are too long and out of topic i

RE: [computer-go] MC hard positions for MCTS

Don’t forget about ladders. Many programs have special code to avoid playing in losing ladders. From: computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of Petri Pitkanen Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:06 AM To: computer-go Subject: [computer-go] MC h

[computer-go] Designing coefficient functions

Hi! Does anyone have some tips about designing effeciently-computable coefficient functions that would have similar properties to the "eg paper"? I.e. something like: a + b + c = 1 n(d) = 0 a ~ 0, b ~ 0, c ~ 1 n(d) smallb >> a n(d) -> infty a ~ 1 It sounds simple, but I

Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

I strongly believe that such patterns must not be only spatial (static) but also temporal, ie, dynamic or sequence of pattens which allow the player quickly remember the results of local fights or L&D. Hideki Darren Cook: <4ae6d9b6.1070...@dcook.org>: >> I will offer some anecdotal evidence co

Re: [computer-go] MC hard positions for MCTS

This causes what I call the "horizon effect" which prevents the tree exploration to work properly - the moment the tree finds a sequence that unbiases the simulations, it is horrified by the bad results [*] and switches to a different branch, until it finds the same; thus, the bot pushes the reso

Re: [computer-go] MC hard positions for MCTS

But, has anyone gathered stats on positions, from real games, that require precise play by the defender/attacker/both/neither? Is defending really easier than attacking? Darren Who is the defender? One side is defending his territory, the other side is defending his group. I think the genera

Re: [computer-go] MC hard positions for MCTS

That is well known fact of go, that usually defence is easier. But evidence is anecdotal. Getting real evidence from real games cannot be automated as all concept involved are rather vague and difficult to classify. Hence I am willing to accept such information as passed on to me in books like "de

Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

> I will offer some anecdotal evidence concerning humans playing other > humans, from club and tournament playing experience: you will find that > shorter time limits amplify the winning probability of stronger players... Another anecdote. At a Fost Cup (Computer Go tournament) from 10-15 years ag

Re: [computer-go] MC hard positions for MCTS

> But the biggest problem is that the path to life/ko is very narrow. > The defender has many useful moves and the invader has few. > So MCTS will falsely judge invadable areas to be safe. Interesting, I'd not thought about it in that respect: I know I can soon find positions where the defender ha

Re: [computer-go] MC hard positions for MCTS

Hi! On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:05:57PM +0200, Petri Pitkanen wrote: > Are there more peculiar situation that will cause problems for MCTS apart > from the three I know. > 1. Nakade (this is partuially solved in most of the programs) > 2. Semeais > 3. Double Ko. Yes, these are all just particu

Re: [computer-go] MC hard positions for MCTS

I would add invasions. This is especially obvious when the position cries for a san-san invasion. Nakade may be a part of it. But the biggest problem is that the path to life/ko is very narrow. The defender has many useful moves and the invader has few. So MCTS will falsely judge invadable areas to

Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P asblack (game of Go, 9x9).

c) There was one non-blitz game (45 minutes per side). MoGo was unlucky as it was black, but it nonetheless won the game. This game is enclosed. All games can be found on KGS (account nutngo) Congratulations. b) MoGo already won a game as black, against Catalin Taranu, but I guess

[computer-go] MC hard positions for MCTS

Hello, Are there more peculiar situation that will cause problems for MCTS apart from the three I know. 1. Nakade (this is partuially solved in most of the programs) 2. Semeais 3. Double Ko. Last one was new to me. See http://files.gokgs.com/games/2009/10/26/ManyFaces-Hyoga.sgf In that game many

Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

I suspect I am in your camp, Mark, though obviously it would be nice if we had measurements on this instead of conjectures. I will offer some anecdotal evidence concerning humans playing other humans, from club and tournament playing experience: you will find that shorter time limits amplify

Re: [SPAM] Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 08:47:41AM +0100, Olivier Teytaud wrote: > > Could you give us at least a general picture of improvements compared to > > what was last published as > > www.lri.fr/~teytaud/eg.pdf? Is it > > "just" > > further tuning and small tweaks or

Re: [SPAM] Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

> Could you give us at least a general picture of improvements compared to > what was last published as > www.lri.fr/~teytaud/eg.pdf? Is it "just" > further tuning and small tweaks or are you trying out some exciting new > things? ;-) > There is one important