Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Thu, 03 Jan 2002, Craig Dickson wrote:
> > Karl M. Hegbloom wrote:
> > > If a package has gotten very stale, and nobody has taken up
> > > maintainence, isn't that a pretty good indication that nobody is
> > > using it anyhow?
> >
>
On Thu, 03 Jan 2002, Craig Dickson wrote:
> Karl M. Hegbloom wrote:
> > If a package has gotten very stale, and nobody has taken up
> > maintainence, isn't that a pretty good indication that nobody is
> > using it anyhow?
>
> Is it? Is the average Debian user both able and willing to be a
Obvi
Darrell Rene Dupas wrote:
> no it isnt flame bait but it is newbie bait!
Not if you read it correctly. Try again.
> there is an good discussion on this very topic at the following url
> http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/
I was talking about Debian policy and procedures, not g
no it isnt flame bait but it is newbie bait!
there is an good discussion on this very topic at the following url
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/
take care. i am not a maintaner yet! someday hopefully
dd
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Karl M. Hegbloom wrote:
If a package has gotten v
Karl M. Hegbloom wrote:
> If a package has gotten very stale, and nobody has taken up
> maintainence, isn't that a pretty good indication that nobody is
> using it anyhow?
Is it? Is the average Debian user both able and willing to be a
maintainer, and sufficiently aware of ongoing developments
If a package has gotten very stale, and nobody has taken up
maintainence, isn't that a pretty good indication that nobody is
using it anyhow?
What about taking packages like that and removing the binary .deb,
but leave the last source package in the archive... there should be
a way through
On 29 Dec 2001, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > > But I suspect that eight people is nowhere near enough people. Maybe
> > > I could join...
> >
> > Please do! Adrian Bunk posted a proposal a month or so ago for QA
> > organization in the future, conta
Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > But I suspect that eight people is nowhere near enough people. Maybe
> > I could join...
>
> Please do! Adrian Bunk posted a proposal a month or so ago for QA
> organization in the future, containing a good summary of the kinds of
> things people can
This is why I labeled it as "if it were me". Of course I tend to
take a harder view of whats the programmers responsibilities when releasing
a package than most people. Maybe it has to do with my overbuilt sense of
getting things done right and not being blamed for breaks too frequesntly
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brian Wolfe) writes:
> Actualy, I believe that the mkisofs maintainer should have seen that a
> new option was created and notified the maintainers of anything that
> depended on mkisofs ...
That's pushing it, I think. I've had several experiences as a maintainer
where somet
Adam Heath writes:
> On 27 Dec 2001, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>
> > * Adam Heath
> >
> > | dbs(doogie build system, debian build system)
> > |
> > | See autofs, apache, x(contains a pre-alpha version of dbs).
> > |
> > | Do NOT see glibc, gcc. Those use dpatch, which was around before dbs.
> > Db
Eric Van Buggenhaut dijo:
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2001/debian-devel-200111
>
> ?
Thank you for the link, But I was really looking for:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-qa/2001/debian-qa-200111/msg00188.html
--
.''`. "No tengo el coño pa ruidos" -- David Amor, dear friend
: :'
On Thu, 27 Dec 2001, Colin Watson wrote:
> What do you think of the perl build system? It has the maintainer run
> the patch and unpatch targets manually as necessary. Providing the
> maintainer's happy with this extra step, the only obvious disadvantage
> is that the diff almost doubles in size.
On Thu, Dec 27, 2001 at 05:42:52PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> You should use dbs or dpatch if you end up having lots of patches
> against upstream, and want to maintain them as short, small, separate
> patches, instead of one single huge debian diff.gz.
My main beefs with both DBS and dpatch are p
On 26 Dec 2001, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Maybe we need a way to make being on the QA team a sexy job, just like
> maintaining glibc or the kernel or X is.
What about dpkg or apt?
On 27 Dec 2001, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> * Adam Heath
>
> | dbs(doogie build system, debian build system)
> |
> | See autofs, apache, x(contains a pre-alpha version of dbs).
> |
> | Do NOT see glibc, gcc. Those use dpatch, which was around before dbs. Dbs
> | has a larger following(but well und
On Thu, Dec 27, 2001 at 04:24:06PM +, Mark Brown wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 27, 2001 at 04:14:46PM +0200, Juha J?ykk? wrote:
>
> > I wonder how this could happen in the first place: if CDRToaster
> > depended properly on mkisofs version <= whatever, then upgrading
> > mkisofs should remove CDRToas
On Thu, Dec 27, 2001 at 04:14:46PM +0200, Juha Jäykkä wrote:
> I wonder how this could happen in the first place: if CDRToaster
> depended properly on mkisofs version <= whatever, then upgrading
> mkisofs should remove CDRToaster.
Why should CDRToaster expect mkisofs to randomly change its inte
* Adam Heath
| dbs(doogie build system, debian build system)
|
| See autofs, apache, x(contains a pre-alpha version of dbs).
|
| Do NOT see glibc, gcc. Those use dpatch, which was around before dbs. Dbs
| has a larger following(but well under 100 packages use it).
What are the differences b
On Thu, Dec 27, 2001 at 05:44:38AM -0600, Colin Watson wrote:
[Discussing removal of bitrotted packages]
> Usually we only get involved in discussions like this for orphaned
> packages, at least so far.
Back when the committee was alive it (or at least some members of it)
did do some stuff along
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 03:02:48PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Maybe we need a way to make being on the QA team a sexy job, just like
> maintaining glibc or the kernel or X is.
Eh? In my experience the maintainers of these packages get nothing but
grief, sometimes from each other. :)
-
> cause the package to fail more and more in more common usage. Debian updated
> it's version of mkisofs, and thus IT broke CDRToaster. As such this is now in
I wonder how this could happen in the first place: if CDRToaster
depended properly on mkisofs version <= whatever, then upgrading
mkisofs
On Thu, Dec 27, 2001 at 12:07:39AM +0100, Amaya wrote:
> Anthony Towns dijo:
> > Bas Zoetekouw posted the results of a script in mid November that'd
> > help clearing up packages that've been sitting in the archive
> > unmaintained for ridiculously long periods,
>
> Could anyone ponit me to that
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 03:02:48PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Seems to me that we came up with a solution for this problem a while
> ago: the Debian QA team. Right now it has eight people, and an
> overwhelming workload.
You both exaggerate and understate things here.
http://www.debian.
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 11:07:20PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> On 26 Dec 2001, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
>
> > Um, if it doesn't work for the version of mkisofs in woody, then it is
> > a critical bug as far as woody is concerned.
>
> That may be true. But someone who has potato installed, and
On 26 Dec 2001, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Of course, there are hints that there is another segfault bug out there,
> > with
> > the latest version in woody. It's not repeatable, however. Also, on this
> > note, I stand by 1.9.18, as being one of
Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 26 Dec 2001, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
>
> > So, picking one at random, why is bug 9085 still open?
>
> Because that's a cosmetic issue. There are more important things to work on,
> like fixing bugs, and implementing features that we will need down
On 26 Dec 2001, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Um, if it doesn't work for the version of mkisofs in woody, then it is
> a critical bug as far as woody is concerned.
That may be true. But someone who has potato installed, and does a partial
upgrade, might not have the new version of mkisofs.
Seri
On 26 Dec 2001, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> So, picking one at random, why is bug 9085 still open?
Because that's a cosmetic issue. There are more important things to work on,
like fixing bugs, and implementing features that we will need down the road.
Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Of course, there are hints that there is another segfault bug out there, with
> the latest version in woody. It's not repeatable, however. Also, on this
> note, I stand by 1.9.18, as being one of the most safest versions of dpkg,
> with regard to buffer o
On Thu, 27 Dec 2001, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 09:36:13AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> > Anthony Towns writes:
> > > Oh god no. Please no. Inflating bug severeties just makes it harder to
> > > do releases; if there's a problem with normal bugs being ignored (and,
> >
Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Brian Wolfe wrote:
>
> > It's a normal bug at the minimal. I couldn't get CDRToaster to even do
> > a simple burn of a single directory! So I think the bug description would be
> > more like "CDRToaster has failed to follow the evo
On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Brian Wolfe wrote:
> It's a normal bug at the minimal. I couldn't get CDRToaster to even do
> a simple burn of a single directory! So I think the bug description would be
> more like "CDRToaster has failed to follow the evolution of mkisofs's command
> line parameters. A
On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Brian Wolfe wrote:
> > Where upstream is inactive or unresponsive things are a little
> > different, of course.
>
> Yup, this is the situation that I was attempting to describe, when
> upstream seems to be ignoring the package, debian can then take on some of the
> small
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 06:39:34PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > So, picking one at random, why is bug 9085 still open?
> > Because since we started working on it again we've had lots
> > more pressing things to look into that a bug like #
Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Previously Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> > So, picking one at random, why is bug 9085 still open?
>
> Because since we started working on it again we've had lots
> more pressing things to look into that a bug like #9085?
So I picked that bug total
Previously Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> So, picking one at random, why is bug 9085 still open?
Because since we started working on it again we've had lots
more pressing things to look into that a bug like #9085?
Wichert.
--
_
Anthony Towns writes:
> No, it's not that simple. dpkg is perfectly releasable right now, in spite
> of a jillion normal bugs. Heck, now that Wichert and Adam are working on it,
> it's even an example of a well maintained package.
So, picking one at random, why is bug 9085 still open?
> There
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 09:36:13AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Anthony Towns writes:
> > Oh god no. Please no. Inflating bug severeties just makes it harder to
> > do releases; if there's a problem with normal bugs being ignored (and,
> > IMO, there is), it needs to be addressed directly,
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 03:37:15PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Adam Olsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > > But I suspect that eight people is nowhere near enough people. Maybe
> > > I could join... Indeed, maybe the problem would go away if everyone who
> > > has posted a suggestion
Adam Olsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > But I suspect that eight people is nowhere near enough people. Maybe
> > I could join... Indeed, maybe the problem would go away if everyone who
> > has posted a suggestion in this thread joined the QA team and started work.
>
> I'd be more than willin
Adam Olsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I HOPE that's a joke. Mentioning the X maintainer (*cough* no names
> *cough) in the same sentance as "sexy" is just wrong imnsho.
I dunno, he looks pretty nice in the pic on his web page. :)
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 04:52:39PM -0600, Brian Wolfe wrote:
[ a bunch of stuff I didn't read, because ... ]
If you're going to participate on the debian mailing lists, consider
doing so with a mailer that understands and honors the
Mail-Followup-To: header (yes, I know it's not an "official" sta
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 03:02:48PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
>
> Seems to me that we came up with a solution for this problem a while
> ago: the Debian QA team. Right now it has eight people, and an
> overwhelming workload. I think a QA team is the right thing here;
> presumably it can
Anthony Towns dijo:
> Bas Zoetekouw posted the results of a script in mid November that'd
> help clearing up packages that've been sitting in the archive
> unmaintained for ridiculously long periods,
Could anyone ponit me to that script? Google can't help me this time :-)
--
.''`. "No ten
Seems to me that we came up with a solution for this problem a while
ago: the Debian QA team. Right now it has eight people, and an
overwhelming workload. I think a QA team is the right thing here;
presumably it can have the discussions about whether particular
packages are so stale they should
No, but you can do, like you said, and deny them a new package unless
they take up an older one that matches thier area of expertiece.
For example, (still picking on CDRToaster as an example only at this
time) if I were the maintainer of mkisofs, and I updated it, thus breaking
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 03:49:11PM -0600, Brian Wolfe wrote:
> Instead of many new packages, why not make people pick up the orphaned
> stuff, and find replacements or adopt packages that have been DOA upstream?
In a volunteer organization, you can't _make_ people do anything. You
can enco
Ok, here is something to look at. How many NEW packages are there in
the last 2 months? How many of them could have been saved for later due to an
alternate allready existing? How many don't add a whole lot of value to debian?
Instead of many new packages, why not make people pic
It's a normal bug at the minimal. I couldn't get CDRToaster to even do
a simple burn of a single directory! So I think the bug description would be
more like "CDRToaster has failed to follow the evolution of mkisofs's command
line parameters. As a result many fetures that CDRToaster purp
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 01:43:53PM +, Mark Brown wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 01:57:17AM -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > As debian "caught up" on versions, CDRToaster became
> > increasingly buggy. The last modification that I saw to it over
> > a year ago was to let it s
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas Bushnell, BSG) writes:
> But I think the point here is that the presence of a jillion normal
> bugs, unaddressed for years, constitutes a release-critical bug
While that's an interesting assertion, the real question is what it means to
"address" a bug. There are package
Anthony Towns writes:
> Oh god no. Please no. Inflating bug severeties just makes it harder to
> do releases; if there's a problem with normal bugs being ignored (and,
> IMO, there is), it needs to be addressed directly, not worked around by
> filing everything as important or higher.
But I thin
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 01:57:17AM -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> For some time now there has been an increasing trend in people
> that I know who use debian. It is the view that debian is becoming
> increasingly "old"/outdated, and that developers either a: dont' have
> the time to proper
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 01:57:17AM -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> As debian "caught up" on versions, CDRToaster became
> increasingly buggy. The last modification that I saw to it over
> a year ago was to let it support > 8x CDR drives. I personaly
> took the time to pat
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:26:50PM +0100, David N. Welton wrote:
> Anthony Towns writes:
> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:07:57PM +0100, David N. Welton wrote:
> > > As was stated elsewhere, the best way you can make a meaningful
> > > contribution is to file bugs that are "higher level" than
> > >
Anthony Towns writes:
> On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:07:57PM +0100, David N. Welton wrote:
> > As was stated elsewhere, the best way you can make a meaningful
> > contribution is to file bugs that are "higher level" than
> > "normal", in order to draw attention to broken packages.
> Oh god no. Pl
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:07:57PM +0100, David N. Welton wrote:
>
> Brian, I understand your complaints. It bugs me, too, to find
> software not maintained well. We are volunteers, though, and as you
> realize, it takes a lot of time to do this, and so it happens, on
> occasion that someone jus
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:07:57PM +0100, David N. Welton wrote:
> As was stated elsewhere, the best way you can make a meaningful
> contribution is to file bugs that are "higher level" than "normal", in
> order to draw attention to broken packages.
Oh god no. Please no. Inflating bug severeties
Brian, I understand your complaints. It bugs me, too, to find
software not maintained well. We are volunteers, though, and as you
realize, it takes a lot of time to do this, and so it happens, on
occasion that someone just can't keep up. I don't think it's really
fair of people to tell you "hey
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 06:34:16AM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> 'Thank you for all the fishes, do come back when you have the proper skill
> level and/or amount of spare time to actually maintain your Debian packages'
That's all very well (personally I find it a bit insulting and
co
So, that's hopefully my last post for quite a long time.
On 26/12/01, David D. W. Downey wrote:
> * Pierfrancesco Caci ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > 1) learn how to properly format a mail message (i.e. fold at 75th
> >column)
> Quit pickin at the measly stuff and pay attention to the content
Damn, I didn't want to post here anymore, but looks like I need to add
some points. :-(
On 26/12/01, Brian Wolfe wrote:
> Heh, I was not aware that a non-developer could subscribe to d-d.
Looking at http://lists.debian.org and reading the list description
would have told you that before.
>
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 01:38:53AM -0800, David D. W. Downey wrote:
> * Pierfrancesco Caci ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >
> > Nice bait I'll bite, but if you want to read it you'll have to
> > subscribe... It's not fair to throw the rock and hide the hand
> >
> > 1) learn how to properly for
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 08:40:52AM +, David Graham wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > For some time now there has been an increasing trend in people that
> > I know who use debian. It is the view that debian is becoming
> > increasingly "old"/outdated, and
* Pierfrancesco Caci ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> Nice bait I'll bite, but if you want to read it you'll have to
> subscribe... It's not fair to throw the rock and hide the hand
>
> 1) learn how to properly format a mail message (i.e. fold at 75th
>column)
Quit pickin at the measly st
Heh, I was not aware that a non-developer could subscribe to d-d.
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 08:41:54AM +, David Graham wrote:
>
>
> Nice bait I'll bite, but if you want to read it you'll have to
> subscribe... It's not fair to throw the rock and hide the hand
>
> 1) learn how to
Duly chastined. :) I discovered a few minutes ago (thanks to a friend
that is d-d) that I can in fact join the debian-devel list. So I am now lurking
to read and reply. :)
I'll reply in a few minutes to the other email. :)
Brian
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 09:38:24AM +0100, Pierfrancesco Caci wrote:
> Nice bait I'll bite, but if you want to read it you'll have to
> subscribe... It's not fair to throw the rock and hide the hand
>
> 1) learn how to properly format a mail message (i.e. fold at 75th
>column)
>
> 2) lear
:-> "ahzz-debate" == ahzz-debate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
[...]
> I see an increasing trend of two critical problems in the way
> debian operates. #1 package age. Let me talk about this one
> first. There has been a relatively (year or two) explosion in
> the package c
On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> For some time now there has been an increasing trend in people that
> I know who use debian. It is the view that debian is becoming
> increasingly "old"/outdated, and that developers either a: dont'
> have the time to properly
First, i'd like to apologise to the developers that witnessed me
"spazzing"(as one person described it) over the current state of debian and
it's stability/buggyness.
Ok, as a one-time debian tier-1 mirror server admin, and a 4 year user
of debian i'd like to make an observation
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