> As far as I have read in this thread, the only reported problem with
> upgrading from sysv to systemd concerns remote virtual machines that
> won't boot.
As I said earlier: some bits of my log entries are getting discarded by
journald.
--
Salvo Tomaselli
"Io non mi sento obbligato a credere
Am 13.05.2014 21:49, schrieb Cyril Brulebois:
> Thibaut Paumard (2014-05-13):
>> Le 13/05/2014 17:36, Russ Allbery a écrit :
>>> Right, which I've been arguing for already in this thread. I don't think
>>> we should force this on upgrades. There should be a prompt and an
>>> opportunity to not c
Am 15.05.2014 01:42, schrieb Marc Haber:
> On Tue, 13 May 2014 17:28:27 +0200, Vincent Bernat
> wrote:
>> ? 13 mai 2014 15:01 +0200, Marc Haber :
Thank you so much for volunteering to contribute to GNOME packaging and
to make it work on configurations nobody will actually ever use.
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 11:01:14AM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Thu, 15 May 2014 21:51:10 +0200, Josselin Mouette
> wrote:
> >Given the fact/bullshit ratio of your recent posts, I invite you, again,
> >to take a step back from debian-devel.
>
> Given the insult/information ratio of your (not onl
On Thu, 15 May 2014 21:51:10 +0200, Josselin Mouette
wrote:
>Given the fact/bullshit ratio of your recent posts, I invite you, again,
>to take a step back from debian-devel.
Given the insult/information ratio of your (not only recent) posts...
Greetings
Marc
--
-
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 07:51:37AM +, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> > From: Guido =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?=
>
> >GTK+3 supports themes
>
> GTK/GNOME people have stated numerous times that they do not want
> them.
There's not Debian people and not Gtk+/GNOME people, this current
thread shows t
Le jeudi 15 mai 2014 à 07:51 +, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
> > From: Guido =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?=
>
> >GTK+3 supports themes
>
> GTK/GNOME people have stated numerous times that they do not want them.
Do you have a quote to back up your claims?
The fact is that themes are supported, a
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 06:33:41PM +0200, Luca Capello wrote:
> ...despite the above, MANY THANKS to all people writing the Release
> Notes (and any other official documentation), which is highly
> important at least for me, as well as a pleasure to read.
Hear hear, strongly and fully ack'd.
(And
Hi there!
Nothing related to any init system in Debian, but...
On Tue, 13 May 2014 19:19:54 +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> Thibaut Paumard (2014-05-13):
>> Le 13/05/2014 17:36, Russ Allbery a écrit :
>> > Right, which I've been arguing for already in this thread. I don't think
>> > we should f
Thibaut Paumard writes:
> Le 15/05/2014 10:55, Gergely Nagy a écrit :
>> You do realise we have one libc (sure, you can install *additional*
>> ones, but we have one libc the archive is compiled against), we have one
>> package manager (you can, of course, install rpm too, it is packaged!),
>> we
Le 15/05/2014 10:55, Gergely Nagy a écrit :
> You do realise we have one libc (sure, you can install *additional*
> ones, but we have one libc the archive is compiled against), we have one
> package manager (you can, of course, install rpm too, it is packaged!),
> we have one "make" we use to build
On Thu, 2014-05-15 at 10:55 +0200, Gergely Nagy wrote:
> Thorsten Glaser writes:
> > Integration of some components at the cost of disabling the freedom
> > of users to choose a different free component that also does the job,
> > and at the cost of removing some users' use cases: no. That is not
Thorsten Glaser writes:
>>. This
>>> is a perfectly fine job for a derivate or Pure Blend: to provide a
>>> polished system that serves one use case well.
>>
>>Proper integration certainly belongs into Debian or did we become a
>>supermarket:
>
> Proper integration of components: yes. That is the
Hi,
Michael Biebl:
> I can not confirm this behaviour Matthias describes with v204.
>
Sorry, my bad. Turns out that this was not done via the rescue shell.
I was using the root shell which you get on TTY9 (assuming it is enabled,
which it usually isn't for obvious reasons).
Thanks for double-che
> From: Guido =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?=
>GTK+3 supports themes
GTK/GNOME people have stated numerous times that they do not want them.
>. This
>> is a perfectly fine job for a derivate or Pure Blend: to provide a
>> polished system that serves one use case well.
>
>Proper integration certain
Jordan Metzmeier writes:
> It's not loaded from /etc/profile by default (which would probably
> throw errors with other shells since all login shells source
> /etc/profile).
It is for me, via:
if [ -d /etc/profile.d ]; then
for i in /etc/profile.d/*.sh; do
if [ -r $i ]; then
. $i
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 7:22 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Roger Lynn writes:
>> On 13/05/14 20:30, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
>>> In data martedì 13 maggio 2014 19:42:32, David Goodenough ha scritto:
>
> service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
> systemd, and does the right
Roger Lynn writes:
> On 13/05/14 20:30, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
>> In data martedì 13 maggio 2014 19:42:32, David Goodenough ha scritto:
service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
systemd, and does the right thing.
>>> The big shame with service is that tab completio
On 13/05/14 20:30, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
> In data martedì 13 maggio 2014 19:42:32, David Goodenough ha scritto:
>> > service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
>> > systemd, and does the right thing.
>>
>> The big shame with service is that tab completion does not work proper
On Tue, 13 May 2014 17:28:27 +0200, Vincent Bernat
wrote:
> ? 13 mai 2014 15:01 +0200, Marc Haber :
>>>Thank you so much for volunteering to contribute to GNOME packaging and
>>>to make it work on configurations nobody will actually ever use.
>>>
>>>We are eagerly waiting for your patches.
>>
>>
On Tue, 13 May 2014 20:08:18 +0100, "Adam D. Barratt"
wrote:
>adam@wheezy:~$ service
|[6/505]mh@swivel:~/transfer$ service
|.directorykarte4.png
|fotovoltaik.png lageplan.png
|karte1.pngpdns-backend-mysql_3.1-4.log
|karte2.png
Am 14.05.2014 18:30, schrieb The Wanderer:
> On 05/14/2014 12:07 PM, Jakub Wilk wrote:
>
>> * Matthias Urlichs , 2014-05-14, 17:30:
>
>>> In fact, rescuing a system becomes way easier even without learning
>>> any magic tools. For example, when bootup breaks you get dropped
>>> into a rescue shel
Matthias Urlichs writes:
> I see two cases here.
> * I'm a logged-in user and use su to run … whatever.
> In this case, whether it creates a new session or not doesn't matter
> (because there already is one), so one more cannot add more blockage to
> hibernation et al. than there already i
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512
On 05/14/2014 12:07 PM, Jakub Wilk wrote:
> * Matthias Urlichs , 2014-05-14, 17:30:
>
>> In fact, rescuing a system becomes way easier even without learning
>> any magic tools. For example, when bootup breaks you get dropped
>> into a rescue shell,
* Matthias Urlichs , 2014-05-14, 17:30:
In fact, rescuing a system becomes way easier even without learning any
magic tools. For example, when bootup breaks you get dropped into a
rescue shell, same as before. The difference with systemd is that as
soon as you manage to mount that recalcitrant
Hi,
Thorsten Glaser:
> There’s not really a line between them, you know. (But it was
> nice to have a published list of those people who maybe could
> accidentally be hit by a tactical small-bus…)
>
I hereby apologize to the list at large for replying to your earlier emails.
*PLONK*.
--
-- Mat
Hi,
Thorsten Glaser:
> OK. But who says this is to stay? The systemd developers are
> hostile towards legacy stuff in a really intricate way. Take
> not jornal here but something else as example: they support
> running both ntpd and their own thing, to sweeten the deal
> now, but plan on dropping
Hi,
Thorsten Glaser:
> • no /etc/init.d/$foo (to tabcomplete, no less!) any more
>
Why you think these are going away? They're not, not any time soon;
and you can still use them when you're running systemd (assuming that you
include the LSB functions, like init.d/skeleton has been advising you fo
Hi,
Russ Allbery:
> > How difficult would it be, for the sake of compatibility if nothing
> > else, to teach su not to create a new PAM session when it doesn't
> > already run within one?
>
> You don't want to do that in general since that defeats the primary
> purpose of su: creating a new sessi
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 04:31:28PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> On Tue, 13 May 2014, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>
> > My opinion is that many users are migrating away from Debian because we
> > are unable to make decisions on important technical topics and leave
> > them with 3 different setups, n
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:06:10AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Thorsten Glaser writes:
• no /etc/init.d/$foo (to tabcomplete, no less!) any more
I've been telling people to stop using this for years. You should stop
Doesn’t matter in mixed environments. Suse SLES11 has the service command
a
Le mardi, 13 mai 2014, 17.21:45 Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
> Didier 'OdyX' Raboud dixit:
> >Le mardi, 13 mai 2014, 16.25:31 Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
> >> On Mon, 12 May 2014, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> >> > Are you aware that Joss isn't a systemd maintainer? (He's one of
> >> > the GNOME maintainers
Am 13.05.2014 23:46, schrieb David Goodenough:
> Does bash-completion work when the command is sudo not service? Never seems
> to for me. I never log in as root, I always do root things using sudo.
Sure, works fine.
--
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
unive
Le mardi 13 mai 2014 à 22:46 +0100, David Goodenough a écrit :
> Does bash-completion work when the command is sudo not service?
Yes.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
`-
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? C
On Tuesday 13 May 2014 21:09:14 Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
> In data martedì 13 maggio 2014 19:42:32, David Goodenough ha scritto:
> > > service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
> > > systemd, and does the right thing.
> >
> > The big shame with service is that tab completion doe
Steve Langasek dixit:
>On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 08:23:55PM +, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
>> >service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
>> >systemd, and does the right thing.
>
>> It doesn’t work on lenny, and (unless service /etc/init.d/foo is
>> allowed) does not tabcomplete w
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 08:23:55PM +, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> >service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
> >systemd, and does the right thing.
> It doesn’t work on lenny, and (unless service /etc/init.d/foo is
> allowed) does not tabcomplete well (in all scenarios).
Lots
On Tue, 13 May 2014 18:57:03 +0200, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote:
> I could not agree more. In our enterprise environment, I have no
> expectation at all that systemd will cause us significant trouble on
> upgrades. Our troubles have centered things like grub1 to grub2 or,
> indeed, new PHP and Perl vers
Thibaut Paumard dixit:
>People who run testing or unstable should be prepared to deal with
>occasional breakages.
With occasional *temporary* breakages, such as packages disappearing
(in testing) or needing to be set on “hold” temporarily, yes.
With the init system suddenly be swapped out under
Russ Allbery dixit:
>> • no /etc/init.d/$foo (to tabcomplete, no less!) any more
>
>I've been telling people to stop using this for years. You should stop
>using this too, regardless of what init system you're using, since it
>doesn't sanitize environment variables. You leak all kinds of crap fr
Le 13/05/2014 19:38, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
> Cyril Brulebois dixit:
>
>> The sad thing is: almost nobody reads the release notes.
>
> Many people run testing or unstable, so there are no “release”s
> to have notes for, either… (but yes, even those who run stable
> don’t).
People who run test
* Russ Allbery [140513 18:21]:
> > We would be wise to make the last non-systemd release an LTS one so that
> > enterprise users can stay on that release until the systems these
> > installations run are retired.
>
> You're aware, right, that my primary background is with enterprise use,
> and I'
Op dinsdag 13 mei 2014 19:36:35 schreef Thorsten Glaser:
> Thijs Kinkhorst dixit:
> >I could not agree more. In our enterprise environment, I have no
> >expectation at all that systemd will cause us significant trouble on
> >upgrades. Our troubles have centered things like grub1 to grub2 or,
>
> Y
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 07:42:32PM +0100, David Goodenough wrote:
> > service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
> > systemd, and does the right thing.
> The big shame with service is that tab completion does not work properly.
> If I use /etc/init.d/ then tab tells me what is
Am 13.05.2014 20:42, schrieb David Goodenough:
> On Tuesday 13 May 2014 11:06:10 Russ Allbery wrote:
>> service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
>> systemd, and does the right thing.
> The big shame with service is that tab completion does not work properly.
> If I use /etc/i
In data martedì 13 maggio 2014 19:42:32, David Goodenough ha scritto:
> > service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
> > systemd, and does the right thing.
>
> The big shame with service is that tab completion does not work properly.
> If I use /etc/init.d/ then tab tells me w
On Tue, 2014-05-13 at 19:42 +0100, David Goodenough wrote:
> On Tuesday 13 May 2014 11:06:10 Russ Allbery wrote:
> > service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
> > systemd, and does the right thing.
> The big shame with service is that tab completion does not work properly.
In
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 07:42:32PM +0100, David Goodenough wrote:
> The big shame with service is that tab completion does not work properly.
> If I use /etc/init.d/ then tab tells me what is there and spells it right.
Sounds like maybe you need a better shell.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debia
On Tuesday 13 May 2014 11:06:10 Russ Allbery wrote:
> Thorsten Glaser writes:
> > Yes, there were issues with e.g. grub1 to grub2, but do you honestly
> > think that sysadmins in a medium-sized company will cope with these?
> >
> > • no /etc/init.d/$foo (to tabcomplete, no less!) any more
>
> I'
Thorsten Glaser writes:
> Yes, there were issues with e.g. grub1 to grub2, but do you honestly
> think that sysadmins in a medium-sized company will cope with these?
> • no /etc/init.d/$foo (to tabcomplete, no less!) any more
I've been telling people to stop using this for years. You should st
Thorsten Glaser (2014-05-13):
> (But it was nice to have a published list of those people who maybe
> could accidentally be hit by a tactical small-bus…)
That's absolutely shocking and intolerable.
KiBi.
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
Thijs Kinkhorst dixit:
>On Tue, May 13, 2014 18:03, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> You're aware, right, that my primary background is with enterprise use,
>> and I've been doing large-site systems administration for twenty years?
>>
>> systemd is a godsend with basically no downside for our enterprise us
Cyril Brulebois dixit:
>The sad thing is: almost nobody reads the release notes.
Many people run testing or unstable, so there are no “release”s
to have notes for, either… (but yes, even those who run stable
don’t).
bye,
//mirabilos
--
“When udev happened I wrote mdev.”
-- Rob Landley i
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud dixit:
>Le mardi, 13 mai 2014, 16.25:31 Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
>> On Mon, 12 May 2014, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>> > Are you aware that Joss isn't a systemd maintainer? (He's one of
>> > the GNOME maintainers.)
>>
>> There’s not really a line between them, you know. (But
Thibaut Paumard (2014-05-13):
> Le 13/05/2014 17:36, Russ Allbery a écrit :
> > Right, which I've been arguing for already in this thread. I don't think
> > we should force this on upgrades. There should be a prompt and an
> > opportunity to not change init systems.
>
> Instead of or in additio
On Tue, 13 May 2014, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> (But it was nice to have a published list of those people who maybe
> could accidentally be hit by a tactical small-bus…)
This is absolutely inappropriate and has no place on a Debian mailing
list or anywhere else. Please retract this statement.
--
D
* Thorsten Glaser (t...@mirbsd.org) wrote:
> (But it was
> nice to have a published list of those people who maybe could
> accidentally be hit by a tactical small-bus…)
These comments are not necessary nor appropriate, ever.
Thanks,
Stephen
signature.asc
Description: Di
Hi,
Le 13/05/2014 17:36, Russ Allbery a écrit :
> Right, which I've been arguing for already in this thread. I don't think
> we should force this on upgrades. There should be a prompt and an
> opportunity to not change init systems.
Instead of or in addition to such prompting, I expect this swi
On Tue, May 13, 2014 18:03, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
>> The update to the first Debian stable release running systemd will most
>> probably be the most painful update Debian has ever had since switching
>> to glibc (which was well before I started using Linux).
>
> I highly doubt it.
>
>> We would be
Thorsten Glaser writes:
> On Mon, 12 May 2014, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>> Are you aware that Joss isn't a systemd maintainer? (He's one of the
>> GNOME maintainers.)
> There’s not really a line between them, you know. (But it was nice to
> have a published list of those people who maybe could ac
Apologies for the last few mangled messages with bad attributions or
character sets. Emacs 24 didn't like its header and body separator
overridden (it thought my separator was a continuation line of a previous
header), which caused subtle problems with mail sending until I figured
out what was goi
On Mon, 12 May 2014, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> ]] Andrew Shadura
> > This sort of behaviour is precisely why so many people not only
> > dislike systemd, but also it's maintainers.
>
> Are you aware that Joss isn't a systemd maintainer? (He's one of the
> GNOME maintainers.)
There’s not really a
> The update to the first Debian stable release running systemd will most
> probably be the most painful update Debian has ever had since switching
> to glibc (which was well before I started using Linux).
I highly doubt it.
> We would be wise to make the last non-systemd release an LTS one so t
> Matthias Urlichs wrote:
>> In theory, yes you could discover whether a package was installed
>> explicity or has been pulled in as a dependency.
>> In practice, however, a "normal" Debian installation marks each and
>> every package as being installed explicitly.
> ? huh ? This has never been
> How difficult would it be, for the sake of compatibility if nothing
> else, to teach su not to create a new PAM session when it doesn't
> already run within one?
You don't want to do that in general since that defeats the primary
purpose of su: creating a new session as a different user.
It's
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 07:01:14PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Dependency-based boot, the change to /bin/sh, and UUID-based mounting
>> were all not drop-in replacements by that criteria.
> Note that also none of them were forced on existing installations. The
> change of /bin/sh to dash (wh
❦ 13 mai 2014 15:01 +0200, Marc Haber :
>>Thank you so much for volunteering to contribute to GNOME packaging and
>>to make it work on configurations nobody will actually ever use.
>>
>>We are eagerly waiting for your patches.
>
> This sort of behavior is precisely why many users are migrating a
On Tue, 13 May 2014, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> My opinion is that many users are migrating away from Debian because we
> are unable to make decisions on important technical topics and leave
> them with 3 different setups, none of which actually work, instead of
> providing one that is correctly po
Le mardi 13 mai 2014 à 15:01 +0200, Marc Haber a écrit :
> This sort of behavior is precisely why many users are migrating away
> from Debian.
You are entitled to think that users make decisions on the alleged
behavior of people they never heard of.
My opinion is that many users are migrating aw
On Mon, 12 May 2014 21:16:49 +0200, Bas Wijnen
wrote:
>I, as a user, did not expect to be moved over to systemd, and given the
>discussions about it and the older TC decisions about network manager getting
>its dependencies right (to stop forcing all of gnome onto the user's system),
>it felt to m
2014-05-13 15:01 GMT+02:00 Marc Haber :
> On Mon, 12 May 2014 13:58:31 +0200, Josselin Mouette
> wrote:
>>Le lundi 12 mai 2014 à 12:16 +0200, Andrew Shadura a écrit :
>>> > As far as GDM is concerned, any bug reported with systemd-shim installed
>>> > will be ignored. The bug script should probabl
On Mon, 12 May 2014 13:35:15 +0200, Tollef Fog Heen
wrote:
>> On 12 May 2014 11:54, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> > Systemd is the default init system for jessie, and it should be listed
>> > as the first alternative. The fact that an alternative codepath exists
>> > for users with specific needs is
On Mon, 12 May 2014 13:58:31 +0200, Josselin Mouette
wrote:
>Le lundi 12 mai 2014 à 12:16 +0200, Andrew Shadura a écrit :
>> > As far as GDM is concerned, any bug reported with systemd-shim installed
>> > will be ignored. The bug script should probably be updated to that
>> > effect, BTW.
>>
>>
On Mon, 12 May 2014 19:01:14 -0700, Russ Allbery
wrote:
>Dependency-based boot, the change to /bin/sh, and UUID-based mounting were
>all not drop-in replacements by that criteria.
The update to the first Debian stable release running systemd will
most probably be the most painful update Debian ha
On Sun, 11 May 2014 22:34:47 -0700, Steve Langasek
wrote:
>On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 09:10:21AM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>> >> The plain fact:
>
>> >> Using systemd breaks something that worked for probably a decade or longer
>> >> before however long that su is in that init script. So on what acco
On Tue, 13 May 2014 11:31:19 +0200
Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Cameron Norman:
> > Is it not possible to tell if the sysvinit or upstart packages were
> > installed manually, and give a prompt then (in addition to
> > something like you described) ?
> >
> In theory, yes you could discover
Le lundi 12 mai 2014 à 11:42 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> > As far as GDM is concerned, any bug reported with systemd-shim installed
> > will be ignored. The bug script should probably be updated to that
> > effect, BTW.
>
> A better solution would be for you to step down as maintainer, sinc
Hi,
Cameron Norman:
> Is it not possible to tell if the sysvinit or upstart packages were
> installed manually, and give a prompt then (in addition to something like
> you described) ?
>
In theory, yes you could discover whether a package was installed explicity
or has been pulled in as a depende
Hi,
Bas Wijnen:
> Sounds like those packages should conflict with each other. It isn't a reason
> to uninstall anything.
>
If you've used aptitude for any length of time, its affinity towards
uninstalling half of your system in favor of *any* other way to resolve
a conflict should not be surpris
Hi,
Steve Langasek:
> As the maintainer of the pam package in Debian, I assure you: this is a bug
> in dirmngr. System services should not (must not) call interfaces that
> launch pam sessions as part of their init scripts. su is one of those
> interfaces.
>
How difficult would it be, for the s
Hi,
Kevin Chadwick:
> previously on this list Matthias Urlichs contributed:
>
> > I haven't yet seen a system where booting with init=/bin/bash works but
> > booting systemd in emergency mode does not.
>
> Have you added me to a killfile?
* Am I under some sort of obligation to read each and ev
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 07:01:14PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Dependency-based boot, the change to /bin/sh, and UUID-based mounting were
> all not drop-in replacements by that criteria.
Note that also none of them were forced on existing installations. The change
of /bin/sh to dash (which is wh
On 13 May 2014 12:47, Norbert Preining wrote:
> Yes, that is true, because at that time it was about booting with
> init=/bin/systemd
> and *not* about automatic upgrade to systemd without any checking back.
>
No, the title of the bug was changed to "systemd drops into emergency mode
if
> > If a device is not available but listed without "noauto" or "nofail"
> > in /etc/fstab, systemd drops into emergency mode.
> >
>
> Maybe I am mistaken, however I thought this was standard behaviour for SYSV
> boot systems too
No, it is not standard behaviour. It warns you, but continues b
On Mon, 12 May 2014, Russ Allbery wrote:
> In this case, maybe we can add some transitional smarts to the same
> package that takes responsibility for upgrade prompting. What comes to
> mind is scanning /etc/fstab and look for filesystems that aren't set
> noauto or nofail but that aren't mounted
Norbert Preining writes:
> This can happen on *any* server that has been booting happily since many
> many years. Thus, systemd is *not* a drop-in replacement for now.
We should be realistic about this: it's not going to be, either, at least
for a definition of drop-in replacement that involves
On 13 May 2014 11:11, Norbert Preining wrote:
> #743265: systemd: booting with init=/bin/systemd drops into emergency mode
>
> If a device is not available but listed without "noauto" or "nofail"
> in /etc/fstab, systemd drops into emergency mode.
>
Maybe I am mistaken, however I thought this wa
On Mon, 12 May 2014, Steve Langasek wrote:
> Bug #746587 is a prime example. But more generally, I'm looking for
> evidence that we're being systematic about making sure the packages that
> hook into early boot, either via /etc/rcS.d or /etc/network/if-up.d, will
> still work correctly after the t
On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 08:30:22PM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
> Am 09.05.2014 19:56, schrieb Steve Langasek:
> > I don't think systemd integration is in a state today that this is ready to
> > become the default.
> What are you missing?
Bug #746587 is a prime example. But more generally, I'm l
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 04:21:56PM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
> > > Consider a system which has systemd installed, systemd-sysv *not*
> > > installed, and systemd used as PID 1 via init=/bin/systemd. Since
> > > systemd-sysv is not already installed, "systemd-shim | systemd-sysv" will
> > > pull
Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:21:15AM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
> > > I don't think I understand what you mean. What does "having systemd
> > > installed" mean, if not that it's being used as the init system? And if
> > > it isn't used as the init system (presumably because
Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> On Sun, 11 May 2014, Marc Haber wrote:
[...]
> On Sun, 11 May 2014, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
>
> > Marc Haber (2014-05-11):
> > > Just curious as the maintainer of another package using su in an
> > > init script since 2001, how am I supposed to start a non-root
> > > proce
Charles Plessy writes:
> Le Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:16:48PM +0200, Andrew Shadura a écrit :
>> On 12 May 2014 11:54, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>>> Systemd is the default init system for jessie, and it should be listed
>>> as the first alternative. The fact that an alternative codepath exists
>>> f
El Mon, 12 de May 2014 a las 3:48 PM, Charles Plessy
escribió:
Le Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:21:15AM -0700, Josh Triplett a écrit :
There *is* a reason we should push our users away from the
non-default
init: we want to make sure that only the users who specifically
*want* a
non-default init
Le Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:21:15AM -0700, Josh Triplett a écrit :
>
> There *is* a reason we should push our users away from the non-default
> init: we want to make sure that only the users who specifically *want* a
> non-default init run one, and those are exactly the users prepared to
> deal wit
On Mon, 2014-05-12 at 21:16 +0200, Bas Wijnen wrote:
>
> > It's easy enough for any user who *does* care to select a different set of
> > installed packages.
>
> It's not so much about caring which init system to use. It's about being in
> control over your own computer. There are many package
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:21:15AM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
> > In other words: what isn't handled properly? What should happen, and what
> > does
> > happen?
>
> Consider a system which has systemd installed, systemd-sysv *not* installed,
> and systemd used as PID 1 via init=/bin/systemd. S
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:21:15AM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
> > I don't think I understand what you mean. What does "having systemd
> > installed" mean, if not that it's being used as the init system? And if
> > it isn't used as the init system (presumably because the user chose no
> > to do t
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 11:54:43AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le vendredi 09 mai 2014 à 21:13 +0200, Bas Wijnen a écrit :
> > I think it would be good for libpam-systemd to list systemd-shim first.
> Certainly not.
> Systemd is the default init system for jessie, and it should be listed
>
Bas Wijnen wrote:
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 09:19:40AM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
> > Having libpam-systemd depend on "systemd-shim | systemd-sysv" will not
> > properly
> > handle systems that already have systemd installed but not systemd-sysv.
>
> I don't think I understand what you mean. Wh
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