Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Siegfried Goeschl < siegfried.goes...@it20one.com> wrote: > Hi folks, > > as far as I understand the mail thread (while not being a Commons Math > developer) > > * logging could be helpful but it could be argued/reasoned that logging is > not required for an

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

Hi folks, as far as I understand the mail thread (while not being a Commons Math developer) * logging could be helpful but it could be argued/reasoned that logging is not required for an utility package * there is no perfect logging framework for all use-cases and deployments * Apache Commons

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On 09/26/2015 02:33 AM, Gilles wrote: > On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 16:52:26 -0700, Hasan Diwan wrote: >> On 25 September 2015 at 16:47, Gilles >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 17:30:33 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: >>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Gilles

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:53:30 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: On 09/26/2015 02:33 AM, Gilles wrote: On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 16:52:26 -0700, Hasan Diwan wrote: On 25 September 2015 at 16:47, Gilles wrote: On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 17:30:33 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: On

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On 09/26/2015 01:11 PM, Gilles wrote: > On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:53:30 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: >> On 09/26/2015 02:33 AM, Gilles wrote: >>> On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 16:52:26 -0700, Hasan Diwan wrote: On 25 September 2015 at 16:47, Gilles wrote: > On

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:03:06 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote: On 9/26/15 4:56 AM, Thomas Neidhart wrote: On 09/26/2015 01:11 PM, Gilles wrote: On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:53:30 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: On 09/26/2015 02:33 AM, Gilles wrote: On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 16:52:26 -0700, Hasan Diwan wrote: On

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On 9/26/15 4:56 AM, Thomas Neidhart wrote: > On 09/26/2015 01:11 PM, Gilles wrote: >> On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:53:30 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: >>> On 09/26/2015 02:33 AM, Gilles wrote: On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 16:52:26 -0700, Hasan Diwan wrote: > On 25 September 2015 at 16:47, Gilles

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On 9/26/15 9:42 AM, Gilles wrote: > On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:03:06 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote: >> On 9/26/15 4:56 AM, Thomas Neidhart wrote: >>> On 09/26/2015 01:11 PM, Gilles wrote: On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:53:30 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: > On 09/26/2015 02:33 AM, Gilles wrote: >> On

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 10:02:12 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote: On 9/26/15 9:42 AM, Gilles wrote: On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:03:06 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote: On 9/26/15 4:56 AM, Thomas Neidhart wrote: On 09/26/2015 01:11 PM, Gilles wrote: On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:53:30 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: On

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

slf4j-api.jar also has no required dependencies. On 09/26/2015 06:14 PM, Ralph Goers wrote: The Log4j API has no dependencies. Log4j-core only requires log4j-api. It has lots of optional features and so has lots of optional dependencies, but none are required. Ralph On Sep 26, 2015, at

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 22:09:35 +0200, Luc Maisonobe wrote: Le 26/09/2015 21:49, Romain Manni-Bucau a écrit : Le 26 sept. 2015 12:07, "Luc Maisonobe" a écrit : Le 26/09/2015 20:59, Ralph Goers a écrit : I don’t normally participate in Math but I do feel the need to stick

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

The Log4j API has no dependencies. Log4j-core only requires log4j-api. It has lots of optional features and so has lots of optional dependencies, but none are required. Ralph > On Sep 26, 2015, at 1:09 PM, Luc Maisonobe wrote: > > Le 26/09/2015 21:49, Romain

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

Romain, Choosing JUL for a framework does a HUGE disservice to the users of your framework. JUL is by far the worst logging framework design of anything you could choose. It is like the JDK designers purposely chose to use a mechanism to map their API to another implementation that really

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

Le 26/09/2015 18:42, Gilles a écrit : > On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:03:06 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote: >> On 9/26/15 4:56 AM, Thomas Neidhart wrote: >>> On 09/26/2015 01:11 PM, Gilles wrote: On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:53:30 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: > On 09/26/2015 02:33 AM, Gilles wrote: >>

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

Le 26 sept. 2015 12:07, "Luc Maisonobe" a écrit : > > Le 26/09/2015 20:59, Ralph Goers a écrit : > > I don’t normally participate in Math but I do feel the need to stick my nose in here. > > 1. You are absolutely correct to determine whether you need logging at all before

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

Le 26/09/2015 21:49, Romain Manni-Bucau a écrit : > Le 26 sept. 2015 12:07, "Luc Maisonobe" a écrit : >> >> Le 26/09/2015 20:59, Ralph Goers a écrit : >>> I don’t normally participate in Math but I do feel the need to stick my > nose in here. >>> 1. You are absolutely correct

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 19:07:53 +0200, Luc Maisonobe wrote: Le 26/09/2015 18:42, Gilles a écrit : On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:03:06 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote: On 9/26/15 4:56 AM, Thomas Neidhart wrote: On 09/26/2015 01:11 PM, Gilles wrote: On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:53:30 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote:

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

Le 26 sept. 2015 15:19, "Ralph Goers" a écrit : > > Romain, > > Choosing JUL for a framework does a HUGE disservice to the users of your framework. JUL is by far the worst logging framework design of anything you could choose. It is like the JDK designers purposely

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:56:29 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: On 09/26/2015 01:11 PM, Gilles wrote: On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:53:30 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: On 09/26/2015 02:33 AM, Gilles wrote: On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 16:52:26 -0700, Hasan Diwan wrote: On 25 September 2015 at 16:47, Gilles

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:07:20 +0200, Luc Maisonobe wrote: Le 26/09/2015 20:59, Ralph Goers a écrit : I don’t normally participate in Math but I do feel the need to stick my nose in here. 1. You are absolutely correct to determine whether you need logging at all before discussing what to choose.

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

I don’t normally participate in Math but I do feel the need to stick my nose in here. 1. You are absolutely correct to determine whether you need logging at all before discussing what to choose. 2. If you do decide logging is required: a. Please stay away from java.util.logging. It really

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

Le 26/09/2015 20:59, Ralph Goers a écrit : > I don’t normally participate in Math but I do feel the need to stick my nose > in here. > 1. You are absolutely correct to determine whether you need logging at all > before discussing what to choose. > 2. If you do decide logging is required: > a.

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On 9/25/15 8:45 AM, Ole Ersoy wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > On 09/25/2015 08:54 AM, Thomas Neidhart wrote: >> Hi Ole, >> >> for a start, I think you are asking the wrong question. >> First of all we need to agree that we want to add some kind of >> logging >> facility to CM. > Well it has to be SLF4J

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 8:50 AM, Phil Steitz wrote: > On 9/25/15 8:45 AM, Ole Ersoy wrote: > > Hi Thomas, > > > > On 09/25/2015 08:54 AM, Thomas Neidhart wrote: > >> Hi Ole, > >> > >> for a start, I think you are asking the wrong question. > >> First of all we need to

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 07:28:48 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote: On 9/25/15 7:03 AM, Gilles wrote: On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:54:14 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: Hi Ole, for a start, I think you are asking the wrong question. First of all we need to agree that we want to add some kind of logging facility

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

Hi Thomas, On 09/25/2015 08:54 AM, Thomas Neidhart wrote: Hi Ole, for a start, I think you are asking the wrong question. First of all we need to agree that we want to add some kind of logging facility to CM. Well it has to be SLF4J because that's the one I'm most familiar with :). We did

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Gilles wrote: > On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 07:28:48 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote: > >> On 9/25/15 7:03 AM, Gilles wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:54:14 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: >>> Hi Ole, for a start, I think you are

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On 09/25/2015 03:06 PM, Phil Steitz wrote: On 9/25/15 11:01 AM, Ole Ersoy wrote: On 09/25/2015 11:34 AM, Phil Steitz wrote: I disagree. Good tests, API contracts, exception management and documentation can and should eliminate the need for cluttering low-level library code with debug

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On 9/25/15 11:01 AM, Ole Ersoy wrote: > > > On 09/25/2015 11:34 AM, Phil Steitz wrote: >> I disagree. Good tests, API contracts, exception management and >> documentation can and should eliminate the need for cluttering >> low-level library code with debug logging. > > Logging could be viewed as

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On 9/25/15 8:09 AM, Gilles wrote: > On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 07:28:48 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote: >> On 9/25/15 7:03 AM, Gilles wrote: >>> On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:54:14 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: Hi Ole, for a start, I think you are asking the wrong question. First of all we need to

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On 09/25/2015 11:34 AM, Phil Steitz wrote: I disagree. Good tests, API contracts, exception management and documentation can and should eliminate the need for cluttering low-level library code with debug logging. Logging could be viewed as clutter. Constructed the right way, the logging

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 13:06:43 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote: I say something like: "I had to fork some CM class to insert log statements." You say something like: "No, you don't; write test or inspect the code." You had been more constructive: http://markmail.org/thread/a5jl6fkjjtm5qbsw Even if

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 17:30:33 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Gilles wrote: On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 07:28:48 -0700, Phil Steitz wrote: On 9/25/15 7:03 AM, Gilles wrote: On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:54:14 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: Hi

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

For such a simple case like logging in a (math) library you can also use the JDK jul logging. However I really do not see a need for it (and I think it can negatively impact the user experience of a lib if it does logging even when it has no environmental interactions) Am Sat, 26 Sep 2015

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

Oughtn't there be an option to have logging for developers? If you'd like to use it, feel free; if not, don't. Including log4j (or slf or commons-logging, so on) doesn't add too much weight to the jar -- one file, a small properties file, and 4-lines in the pom file. If there is interest, I can

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 02:00:13 +0200, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: For such a simple case like logging in a (math) library you can also use the JDK jul logging. This may make you change your mind: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11359187/why-not-use-java-util-logging However I really do not

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 16:52:26 -0700, Hasan Diwan wrote: On 25 September 2015 at 16:47, Gilles wrote: On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 17:30:33 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Gilles wrote: On Fri, 25 Sep 2015

[Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

Hello, We have been discussing various ways to view what's happening internally with algorithms, and the topic of including SLF4J has come up. I know that this was discussed earlier and it was decided that CM is a low level dependency, therefore it should minimize the transitive dependencies

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

Hi Ole, for a start, I think you are asking the wrong question. First of all we need to agree that we want to add some kind of logging facility to CM. If the outcome is positive, there are a handful of alternatives, some of them more viable than slf4j in the context of CM (e.g. JUL or

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:54:14 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: Hi Ole, for a start, I think you are asking the wrong question. First of all we need to agree that we want to add some kind of logging facility to CM. If the outcome is positive, there are a handful of alternatives, some of them

Re: [Math] Utilitzation of SLF4J?

On 9/25/15 7:03 AM, Gilles wrote: > On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:54:14 +0200, Thomas Neidhart wrote: >> Hi Ole, >> >> for a start, I think you are asking the wrong question. >> First of all we need to agree that we want to add some kind of >> logging >> facility to CM. >> If the outcome is positive,