Chuck,
My main beef with AWT/Swing is one of API design first, bugs second, and
performance last.
I think there is a real opportunity here but it is a difficult one to
solve in an open-source context. I think open-source communities are
great for fixing bugs and implementing features but
On Mar 13, 2018 08:39, "Christian Lenz" wrote:
There are big players out there. And why I love electron? Because it is
fucking HTML, CSS and JS AND for the Backend too. This eco system was build
for fullstack developers, who wants to create desktop applications with
Gili:
So now that they are no longer in charge (it's open source now) let's fix
AWT/Swing/FX and start marketing. We're in charge now. Or did I take a
nap and miss something? Ultimately, perhaps not in the short term, you
get market share by providing a demonstrably better alternative.
We
Antonio and Neil,
I was checking out the site today, and you guys have it rocking! Awesome!
The conversion bits you plugged in are sharp too. Great work!
Thanks so much!
Wade
On Mar 14, 2018 17:16, "Antonio" wrote:
Hi,
Yep. I can see those terrific HTML files out there
I find it incredible that Jaroslav is saying "... people aren't willing to
dedicate 10minutes of their personal time to try HTML/Java API in action
...". How are they supposed to discover that?
Let's try it out with time logging:
15:33 - Setting out to search for NetBeans on google, landed on
Chuck, I appreciate free software as much as the next guy. But I still
blame Sun and Oracle for killing AWT/Swing.
If they wanted more community contributions they could have opened up
the bug reporting system, faciliated pull requests, and shown that they
are acting in good faith. They chose
The problem with browser UIs is not their performance (although that's
not great either). The problem is development productivity is utter crap.
The obvious problem is the lack of consistency between browsers, OSs,
and even versions thereof. The less obvious problem is the constant
churn:
Awesome!
Gj
On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 7:29 PM, wrote:
> Thanks, for the advice. It went fine and I also did a small nighthacking
> session with Yolande that should be recorded somewhere.
>
> --Toni
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Hi Christian,
You're experiencing something all the Java devs had to go through 10 years ago,
when everyone still told us Java/Swing is so slow, and will never be able to
keep up with real programming languages/native UIs, while we were coding really
huge and fast Applications with it.
It
Hey,
Add also gitkraken [1] to the list of cool, fast, developer-oriented UIs
you can do with libchromiumcontent [2].
libchromiumcontent is BSD licensed, by the way, and is cross platform
and also well maintained.
Now that JavaFX (GPL/CPE) is going to be a separate download from the
JDK,
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 10:20:17 -0400
Scott Palmer wrote:
> > On Mar 14, 2018, at 3:01 AM,
> > wrote:
> >
> > There's a problem with this whole discussion. Participants are
> > mixing criticism of webapps with criticism of
Hi,
Yep. I can see those terrific HTML files out there [1] :-)
Since we now have this "html-cleanse-to-asciidoc-and-markdown" hammer,
and now that everything looks like a nail, I think I'll give it a run
and try to generate some asciidoc.
Who knows, we could even build an ePub with the user
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 13:04:08 -0700
Chuck Davis wrote:
> So, what are you waiting for?
> https://wiki.openjdk.java.net/display/OpenJFX/Main will be more than
> happy to suck up some energy from you.
>
> Sorry, I guess I'm in a snarky mood today but I just get so tired of
>
Gili,
I agree with you the browsers are not as performant as desktop
applications. Here is the one thing that I have run into on the Windows
platform and that it is becoming more difficult to deploy applications
on Windows because Anti-Virus thinks anything with an Embedded JVM is
On 14/03/18 10:30, Neil C Smith wrote:
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 at 09:13 Antonio wrote:
Also, we have an area for the github wiki pages at [2]. Do we want to
start a wiki there?
I thought we'd decided on asking for a separate wiki repo (ie.
incubator-netbeans-wiki ?)
You
So, what are you waiting for?
https://wiki.openjdk.java.net/display/OpenJFX/Main will be more than happy
to suck up some energy from you.
Sorry, I guess I'm in a snarky mood today but I just get so tired of
everybody ragging on Oracle. How long has OpenJDK been the source and
Oracle has been
Another way to look at is is, if web apps were so great, why are phone apps so
dominant? In the early days of the iPhone, their stock answer was “write web
apps”. That failed miserably, and they eventually caved in and allowed
developers to write real apps. JavaFX would be faster than WebGL
So the example from Github, with Atom and the example of Microsoft with VS Code
or Slack with the Desktop app, is not valuable enough for you? VS Code is such
a fast DIE/Editor. And valuable against sublime for sure. It is very stable, is
the most contributed Project on github etc. So I think
The first link shows all three releases. Thanks for clarifying the
link to the official release site; I will tag it. I downloaded rc3
and will start using that release. The previous one was the 9.0-beta
release.
I reported a bug in the package (it is in all releases - maybe a
licensing issue).
Hi Neil, Emi and others,
thanks for the constructive answers. I agree for NB we need to find an
alternative to the current presenters. I also think with Browser, iOS and
Android we've already proven to be capable of using anything you throw at us as
a renderer . CEF/Chromium would be an
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 14:01:04 -0400
"William L. Thomson Jr." wrote:
>
> Or if its an Apache mirroring issue. I
> have seen issues with tag differences on Github and Apache. A couple
> times the entire groovy repo on Github disappeared. Other times newer
> tags exist in Apache
Hi Geertjan,
I agree. I'd be happy to move it to a different category. What would you
suggest?
Regarding your other suggestion ("POC or shut up!" ). We're thinking about the
best way how to do a Proof Of Concept and this discussion has proven very
valuable so far as we understand better what
I stumbled onto a tutorial for NB binding a couple of days ago. I looked
for it in NB9 and it is missing (present in 8.2). I don't see a plugin
either. Is this an oversight or by design? I've never actually used it
but it seems relevant to JSE. Anybody know?
Thanks, for the advice. It went fine and I also did a small nighthacking
session with Yolande that should be recorded somewhere.
--Toni
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Montag, 12. März 2018 12:29
An:
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 18:54:55 +0100
Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> You're pointing to the Apache NetBeans Platform, which is Apache
> NetBeans (incubating) 9.0 Alpha.
>
> The Apache NetBeans IDE, which is Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0
> Beta, is here:
>
>
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 13:47:20 -0400
Efrem Mc wrote:
> HI, I know beside Github
>
> This a link to all the releases for 9.0-beta, 9.0-beta-rc2 and rc-3
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-platform/
>
>
You're pointing to the Apache NetBeans Platform, which is Apache NetBeans
(incubating) 9.0 Alpha.
The Apache NetBeans IDE, which is Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0 Beta, is
here:
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java,
though please note that this is
HI, I know beside Github
This a link to all the releases for 9.0-beta, 9.0-beta-rc2 and rc-3
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-platform/
http://www-eu.apache.org/dist/incubator/netbeans/
On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 1:24 PM, William L. Thomson Jr.
I agree. If the web was such a great platform for desktop apps, you
would have seen many other projects/companies porting complex desktop
applications to it. They are not.
Web technologies are great for basic interfaces. They are utter garbage
for Filty Rich Clients.
Don't repeat the
Take a look here:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/tree/master/usersguide
Gj
On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Neil C Smith
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In reverse order ...
>
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 at 09:13 Antonio wrote:
>
> > Also, we have an area
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 18:12:29 +0100
Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> Here it is, you can write back and ask again, but this will still be
> the tag of the rc3 which has been accepted as Apache NetBeans
> (incubating) 9.0 Beta:
>
>
Here it is, you can write back and ask again, but this will still be the
tag of the rc3 which has been accepted as Apache NetBeans (incubating) 9.0
Beta:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/tree/9.0-beta-rc3
Gj
On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 6:10 PM, William L. Thomson Jr.
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 17:54:59 +0100
Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> Yes, there is indeed another release pending soon -- that will always
> be the case. Right now, we're working on the final release of Apache
> NetBeans (incubating) 9.0, which will mean a new release.
Yes, there is indeed another release pending soon -- that will always be
the case. Right now, we're working on the final release of Apache NetBeans
(incubating) 9.0, which will mean a new release.
Gj
On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 5:45 PM, William L. Thomson Jr.
wrote:
> On Wed, 14
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 16:17:23 +0100
Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/tree/9.0-beta-rc3
>
> There's the tag for rc3 i.e., the officially approved Apache NetBeans
> (incubating) 9.0 Beta.
I bumped my packages to that version
Hi all,
Following this vote, the event will be going forward and will be hosted at the
University of Greenwich in London.
You can find tickets for the event here - it is free admission but will require
registration on this page:
The tag is 9.0-beta-rc3, as stated at
http://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb90/nb90-beta.html
:-)
On 14/03/18 16:17, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/tree/9.0-beta-rc3
There's the tag for rc3 i.e., the officially approved Apache NetBeans
(incubating) 9.0
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/tree/9.0-beta-rc3
There's the tag for rc3 i.e., the officially approved Apache NetBeans
(incubating) 9.0 Beta.
Gj
On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 3:51 PM, William L. Thomson Jr.
wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 09:29:54 -0400
> Emilian Bold
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 09:29:54 -0400
Emilian Bold wrote:
> Good catch. Yes, there should be a git tag for 9.0-beta, no? Or do we
> use 9.0-beta-rc3?
I could have sworn there was a 9.0-beta tag. I asked about releases a
few days back, no response. But there I mention I
> On Mar 14, 2018, at 3:01 AM,
> wrote:
>
> There's a problem with this whole discussion. Participants are mixing
> criticism of webapps with criticism of Desktop applications which use a
> HTML5Component as their renderer. I don't know if I
See nbbuild/cluster.properties file.
-jt
Odesláno z iPadu
13. 3. 2018 v 8:06, Peter Cheung :
> Hi All
> How to know/get the list of options of parameter “cluster.config”?
>
> $ ant -Dcluster.config=platform
>
> Thanks
> From Peter
It is weird.
NetBeans is at 10.9% for Mobile Developers and 8.4% for System
Admins/DevOps.
Paul Franz
Senior Principal Applications Engineer
Oracle Transportation Management
On 14 Mar 2018, at 9:33, Emilian Bold wrote:
And there should be some more examples where to start. The DukeScript Project
template doesn’t fit my Needs to start with. Sure I can make a template from my
NbScratchFile plugin, because this fit’s my Needs as a frontend dev. It is not
removing that with that, it is extending that with that.
https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018/#development-environments-and-tools
--emi
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail:
Good catch. Yes, there should be a git tag for 9.0-beta, no? Or do we use
9.0-beta-rc3?
--emi
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On 14 March 2018 12:23 PM, Christian Lenz wrote:
> As I understand it right, NB 9.0 Beta is live, right? I mean real NB 9.0
> Beta, not NB
> PS: Shame on me for not being able to do it. The MineSweeper game is around
> for four years, including the IDE support. And then you ask "frontend that
> will work in NetBeans Platform App and web app"! Well, that is the whole
> point of HTML/Java API (from NetBeans perspective) - what have
The only issue I currently issue I have with DukeScript is that to
deploy your application on iOS or Android it is required to be GPL or
buy a Commercial license (minimum 19 Euros or approximately $25 per
month). Which means to deploy an app to an app store you need to have a
paid for app with
Hello Zoran,
your question is easy to answer (so I start with it, but I thank everyone for
comments, I react later)...
14. 3. 2018 v 2:48, Zoran Sevarac :
> Can I do the following using HTML4J:
> 1. Build a frontend that will work in NetBeans Platform App and web app
>
One of the biggest limitations is the fact everything is single threaded.
This isn't related to vaadin and gwt.
I have used vaadin and like it alot, and to build certain types of
applications it is a great candidate if you are used to java. I have also
used GWT alot and have extended it for areas
Peter,
can you tell me which limitations you mean? As I wrote in an other thread, the
limitations came from GWT. The Problem is that a Java developer doesn’t want to
write HTML, CSS and JS so they are looking for an alternative. GWT or Vaadin or
kotlin to js, I can’t understand that, but ok.
As I understand it right, NB 9.0 Beta is live, right? I mean real NB 9.0 Beta,
not NB 9.0 Beta RC 3. If so, NB 9.0 Beta is missing as a release artefact at
the github Releases page. Only to let you know that. Maybe I’m wrong.
Cheers
Chris
But that means, that master is newer than that what is live, right? I thought
we should have a NB 10 branch to merge the stuff for the next into it, or is it
about the nightlies? Do we have a strategy for that? I mean master should
always be the stable branch for that, what is stable live,
Best example Neil, the app is horrible, it is slow initialization like 10
seconds or more? Please come one. No way!. And the UI is horrible too, out from
the latest 90s or whenever.
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Neil C Smith
Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. März 2018 10:35
An:
>
>
> To help us out of this situation and save Java as a programming language I
> dedicated my days to smoothing out interoperability between Java and
> JavaScript with the goal to reuse the most flexible and portable rendering
> system of these days: the browser. My work has already been donated
Hi,
I recall talking about the UserFAQ [1], but I thought most content there
was obsolete (mailing list, license agreements, contribution agreements,
plugin portal, update center, blogging) and we decided not to port it.
The UserFAQ is _huge_, by the way.
We can port whatever we want to
Hi,
On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 at 19:09 Antonio wrote:
> - The old wiki DevFaq at http://netbeans.apache.org/wiki/
Did we not have the UserFaq at one point too? I remember it coming up in
conversation at least.
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
Hi Toni,
On Wed, 14 Mar 2018, 07:35 , wrote:
> Regarding the architecture: In a plain DukeScript application we're
> starting a normal Java process. This process starts a HTML5Renderer using a
> "Presenter", e.g embedded chromium. The task of the Presenter is to take
>
Excellent work! Yes, there’s a few more items, will list them here ASAP.
Gj
On Tuesday, March 13, 2018, Antonio wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> AFAIK we now have:
>
> - The old wiki DevFaq at http://netbeans.apache.org/wiki/
> - The features section of the old website at
>
Hi Wade,
one of the ideas behind DukeScript was to not create our own rendering
technology and set of widgets. That has huge benefits:
- We don't have to write and maintain a Rendering Pipeline. JavaFX proofs how
hard it is. They have huge performance problems, partially caused by basically
The coding conventions NetBeans follows and provides are "as-is". People that
what to customize it have some options to toggle or could use 3rd party plugins.
Particularly since there is no global Java standard I don't believe we should
be looking for extra work for nothing. For reference, the
There's a problem with this whole discussion. Participants are mixing criticism
of webapps with criticism of Desktop applications which use a HTML5Component as
their renderer. I don't know if I should respond, because technologies like
DukeScript or Electron do not suffer from this browser
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