Re: Bigger hard drives wanted (was Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux))

This thread is good feedback. I think changing the default to a 1TB SSD is a reasonable request. Please send any future comments regarding hardware to Sophana ( s...@mozilla.com) to increase the chances that feedback is acted on. On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Julian Seward

Re: Bigger hard drives wanted (was Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux))

On 08/11/17 17:28, Boris Zbarsky wrote: > The last desktop I was shipped came with a 512 GB drive. [..] > > In practice, I routinely run out of disk space and have to delete > objdirs and rebuild them the next day, because I have to build > something else in a different srcdir... I totally

Re: Bigger hard drives wanted (was Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux))

I’d like to add the VM multiplier: I’m working mainly on OSX and run a Windows and a Linux VM in there with their own checkouts and objdirs. Instead of allocating a comfortable size virtual disks, I end up resizing them quite frequently to avoid running out of space to save as much as possible

Bigger hard drives wanted (was Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux))

On 11/7/17 4:13 PM, Sophana "Soap" Aik wrote: Nothing is worse than hearing IT picked or chose hardware that nobody actually wanted or will use. If I could interject with a comment about the hardware we pick... The last desktop I was shipped came with a 512 GB drive. One of our srcdirs is

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

Thanks Jeff, I understand your reasoning. 14 cores vs 10 is definitely huge. I will also add, there isn't anything to stop us to having more than one config, just like we do with laptops. I'm fortunate to be in this situation to finally help you all have influence on the type of hardware that

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

Kris has touched on the many advantages of having a standard model. From what I am seeing with most people's use case scenario, only the GPU is what will determine what the machine is used for. IE: VR Research team may end up only needing a GPU upgrade. Fortunately the new W-Series Xeon's seem to

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

With all this talk… I’m eagerly waiting for the iMac Pro. Best of all worlds really: - High core count - ECC RAM - 5K 27” display - Great graphic card - Super silent… I’ve been using a Mac Pro 2013 (the trash can one), Xeon E5 8 cores, 32 GB ECC RAM, connected to two 27” screens (one 5K with

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On Wed, Nov 08, 2017 at 09:43:29AM +0200, Henri Sivonen wrote: > I agree that workstation GPUs should be avoided. Even if they were as > well supported by Linux distro-provided Open Source drivers as > consumer GPUs, it's at the very least more difficult to find > information about what's true

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

I agree that workstation GPUs should be avoided. Even if they were as well supported by Linux distro-provided Open Source drivers as consumer GPUs, it's at the very least more difficult to find information about what's true about them. We don't need the GPU to be at max spec like we need the CPU

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

The Core i9s are a quite a bit cheaper than the Xeon Ws: https://ark.intel.com/products/series/125035/Intel-Xeon-Processor-W-Family vs https://ark.intel.com/products/126695 I wouldn't want to trade ECC for 4 cores. -Jeff On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Sophana "Soap" Aik

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

If you don't want to get into the weeds on ECC again, please do not reinitiate discussion. I do not agree that "the additional cost of ECC is very low compared to the cost of developer time over the two years that they're expected to use it", but I will restrict my disagreement to the forked

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On Tue, Nov 07, 2017 at 03:07:55PM -0500, Jeff Muizelaar wrote: On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Sophana "Soap" Aik wrote: Hi All, I'm in the middle of getting another evaluation machine with a 10-core W-Series Xeon Processor (that is similar to the 7900X in terms of clock

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

Hi All, I'm in the middle of getting another evaluation machine with a 10-core W-Series Xeon Processor (that is similar to the 7900X in terms of clock speed and performance) but with ECC memory support. I'm trying to make sure this is a "one size fits all" machine as much as possible. Also

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

My understanding of current policy is that ECC is not required. (and not even an option with MacBook Pros) Given the volume of development that happens unhindered on our developers' many, many non-ECC machines, I believe the burden of proof-of-burden is on the pro-ECC argument to show that it's

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On 06/11/2017 22:44, Jeff Gilbert wrote: > Price matters, since every dollar we spend chasing ECC would be a > dollar we can't allocate towards perf improvements, hardware refresh > rate, or simply more machines for any build clusters we may want. And every day our developers or IT staff waste

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

Price matters, since every dollar we spend chasing ECC would be a dollar we can't allocate towards perf improvements, hardware refresh rate, or simply more machines for any build clusters we may want. The paper linked above addresses massive compute clusters, which seems to have limited

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

> On Nov 6, 2017, at 05:19, Gabriele Svelto wrote: > >> On 04/11/2017 01:10, Jeff Gilbert wrote: >> Clock speed and core count matter much more than ECC. I wouldn't chase >> ECC support for general dev machines. > > The Xeon-W SKUs I posted in the previous thread all had

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On 04/11/2017 01:10, Jeff Gilbert wrote: > Clock speed and core count matter much more than ECC. I wouldn't chase > ECC support for general dev machines. The Xeon-W SKUs I posted in the previous thread all had identical or higher clock speeds than equivalent Core i9 SKUs and ECC support with the

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

Thank you for including an AMD card among the ones to be tested. - - The Radeon RX 460 mentioned earlier in this thread arrived. There was again enough weirdness that I think it's worth sharing in case it saves time for someone else: Initially, for multiple rounds of booting with different

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

Clock speed and core count matter much more than ECC. I wouldn't chase ECC support for general dev machines. On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 6:46 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: > On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Nico Grunbaum wrote: > >> For rr I have an i7 desktop with

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Nico Grunbaum wrote: > For rr I have an i7 desktop with a base clock of 4.0 Ghz, and for building > I use icecc to distribute the load (or rather I will be again when bug > 1412240[0] is closed). The i9 series has lower base clocks (2.8

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

For rr I have an i7 desktop with a base clock of 4.0 Ghz, and for building I use icecc to distribute the load (or rather I will be again when bug 1412240[0] is closed).  The i9 series has lower base clocks (2.8 Ghz, and 2.6Ghz for the top SKUs)[1], but high boost clocks of 4.2 Ghz.  If I were

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

Thanks Gabriele, that poses a problem then for the system build we have in mind here as the i9's do not support ECC memory. That may have to be a separate system with a Xeon. On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Gabriele Svelto wrote: > On 27/10/2017 01:02, Gregory Szorc wrote:

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

Thank you Henri for the feedback. How about this, we can order some graphics cards and put them in the evaluation/test machine that is with Greg, to make sure it has good compatibility. We could do: Nvidia GTX 1060 3GB AMD Radeon RX570 These two options will ensure it can drive multi displays.

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

Hello everyone, great feedback that I will keep in mind and continue to work with our vendors to find the best solution with. One of the cards that I was looking at is fairly cheap and can at least drive multi-displays (even 4K 60hz) was the Nvidia Quadro P600. I feel especially based on the work

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

BTW can someone forward this entire thread to their friends at AMD so AMD will fix their CPUs to run rr? They're tantalizingly close :-/. Rob -- lbir ye,ea yer.tnietoehr rdn rdsme,anea lurpr edna e hnysnenh hhe uresyf toD selthor stor edna siewaoeodm or v sstvr esBa kbvted,t

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On 28/10/2017 01:08, Sophana "Soap" Aik wrote: > Thanks Gabriele, that poses a problem then for the system build we have > in mind here as the i9's do not support ECC memory. That may have to be > a separate system with a Xeon. Xeon-W processors are identical to the i9 but come with more

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

Yeah. Only the Xeons and ThreadRipper (as our potential high core count machines) support ECC. rr, ECC, or reasonable costs: pick at most two :/ On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 4:08 PM, Sophana "Soap" Aik wrote: > Thanks Gabriele, that poses a problem then for the system build we have

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On 27/10/2017 01:02, Gregory Szorc wrote: > Sophana (CCd) is working on a new system build right now. It will be based > on the i9's instead of dual socket Xeons and should be faster and cheaper. ... and lacking ECC memory. Please whatever CPU is chosen make sure it has ECC support and the

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

Not necessarily relevant to this specific discussion, but I'm on a Lenovo P50 running Linux, and wanted to offer up my setup as a datapoint. (It's not quite either a recommendation or a word of warning. A combination.) I use Linux (Fedora 25) as the host OS, with two external monitors plus

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 2:34 AM, Henri Sivonen wrote: > And the downsides don't even end there. rr didn't work. Plus other > stuff not worth mentioning here. > Turns out that rr not working with Nvidia on Ubuntu 17.10 was actually an rr issue triggered by the Ubuntu libc

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 4:48 AM, Sophana "Soap" Aik wrote: > Hello everyone, great feedback that I will keep in mind and continue to work > with our vendors to find the best solution with. One of the cards that I was > looking at is fairly cheap and can at least drive

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 04:02:20PM -0700, Gregory Szorc wrote: > > Also, the machines come with Windows by default. That's by design: that's > > where the bulk of Firefox users are. We will develop better products if > the

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 04:02:20PM -0700, Gregory Szorc wrote: > Also, the machines come with Windows by default. That's by design: that's > where the bulk of Firefox users are. We will develop better products if the > machines we use every day resemble what actual users use. I would encourage >

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: > I also share your desire to not issue fancy video cards in these machines > by default. If there are suggestions for a default video card, now is the > time to make noise :) Intel GPUs are the best choice if you want to be

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: > Unless you have requirements that prohibit using a > VM, I encourage using this setup. rr doesn't work in hyper-v. AFAIK the only Windows VM it works in is VMWare -Jeff ___

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:34 AM, Henri Sivonen wrote: > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Henri Sivonen > wrote: > > There's a huge downside, though: > > If the screen stops consuming the DisplayPort data stream, the > > graphical session gets killed!

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On 10/26/2017 06:34 AM, Henri Sivonen wrote: > As for the computer at hand, I want to put an end to this Nvidia > obstacle to getting stuff done. It's been suggested to me that Radeon > RX 560 would be well supported by distro-provided drivers, but the > "*2" footnote at

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 9:34 AM, Henri Sivonen wrote: > As for the computer at hand, I want to put an end to this Nvidia > obstacle to getting stuff done. It's been suggested to me that Radeon > RX 560 would be well supported by distro-provided drivers, but the > "*2"

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

Yeah. I'd suggest anyone who's running Linux on these machines just go out and buy a $100 AMD GPU to replace the Quadro. Even if you don't expense the new GPU and just throw the Quadro in the trash you'll probably be happier. -Jeff On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 9:34 AM, Henri Sivonen

Re: More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Henri Sivonen wrote: > There's a huge downside, though: > If the screen stops consuming the DisplayPort data stream, the > graphical session gets killed! So if you do normal things like turn > the screen off or switch input on a multi-input

More ThinkStation P710 Nvidia tips (was Re: Faster gecko builds with IceCC on Mac and Linux)

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Henri Sivonen wrote: > On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:42 AM, Gregory Szorc wrote: >> The Lenovo ThinkStation P710 is a good starting point ( >> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/workstations/thinkstation/p-series/p710/). > > To help