Re: [FORGED] Firefox removes UI for site identity

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 10:54:18 -0700 Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy wrote: > [PW] I agree with your conclusion. But you’re commenting on the wrong > thing. You snipped my message so much that my comment above is > without context. You snipped it in a way that a reader will think I’m > asking

Re: [FORGED] Firefox removes UI for site identity

> On Oct 29, 2019, at 12:03 PM, James Burton wrote: > > Correction: > > This isn't throwing insults at each other, it's about improving web security > and not directing people to the wrong conclusions which the CA Security > Council has done which is bad for the improvement of web security.

Re: [FORGED] Firefox removes UI for site identity

> On Oct 29, 2019, at 11:56 AM, James Burton wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 6:29 PM Paul Walsh > wrote: > >> On Oct 29, 2019, at 11:17 AM, James Burton > > wrote: >> >> Hi Paul, >> >> I take the view that the articles on the CA

Re: [FORGED] Firefox removes UI for site identity

> On Oct 29, 2019, at 11:17 AM, James Burton wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > I take the view that the articles on the CA Security Council website are a > form of marketing gimmick with no value whatsoever. [PW] More useless feedback that only serves to insult someone trying their best to add value.

Re: [FORGED] Firefox removes UI for site identity

Hi Paul, I take the view that the articles on the CA Security Council website are a form of marketing gimmick with no value whatsoever. Thank you Burton On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 5:55 PM Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy < dev-security-policy@lists.mozilla.org> wrote: > Hi Nick, > > > On Oct

Re: [FORGED] Firefox removes UI for site identity

Hi Nick, > On Oct 29, 2019, at 7:07 AM, Nick Lamb wrote: > > On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 16:19:30 -0700 > Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy > wrote: >> If you believe the visual indicator has little or no value why did >> you add it? > > The EV indication dates back to the creation of Extended

Re: [FORGED] Firefox removes UI for site identity

On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 16:19:30 -0700 Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy wrote: > If you believe the visual indicator has little or no value why did > you add it? The EV indication dates back to the creation of Extended Validation, and so the CA/Browser forum, which is well over a decade ago now.

Re: [FORGED] Firefox removes UI for site identity

> On Oct 28, 2019, at 3:39 PM, Wayne Thayer wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 2:41 PM Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy > > wrote: > > [PW] So you dislike Mozilla’s implementation for the tracker icon in the > address bar? When

Re: [FORGED] Firefox removes UI for site identity

Hi Paul, On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 2:41 PM Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy < dev-security-policy@lists.mozilla.org> wrote: > [PW] So you dislike Mozilla’s implementation for the tracker icon in the > address bar? When you update to 70.0 you’re prompted with an > educational-type pop-out to

Re: [FORGED] Firefox removes UI for site identity

> On Oct 28, 2019, at 2:12 PM, James Burton wrote: > > [PW] Phil knows more about the intent so I’ll defer to his response at the > end of this thread. I would like to add that computer screens bigger than > mobile devices aren’t going away. So focusing only on mobile isn’t a good > idea. >

Re: [FORGED] Firefox removes UI for site identity

> > [PW] Phil knows more about the intent so I’ll defer to his response at the > end of this thread. I would like to add that computer screens bigger than > mobile devices aren’t going away. So focusing only on mobile isn’t a good > idea. > > Thanks for the constructive conversation James, finally

Re: [FORGED] Firefox removes UI for site identity

On Oct 25, 2019, at 7:56 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > > > > On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 4:21 AM James Burton > wrote: > Extended validation was introduced at a time when mostly everyone browsed the > internet using low/medium resolution large screen devices that

Re: [FORGED] Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 4:21 AM James Burton wrote: > Extended validation was introduced at a time when mostly everyone browsed > the internet using low/medium resolution large screen devices that provided > the room for an extended validation style visual security indicator . > Everything has

Re: [FORGED] Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

Extended validation was introduced at a time when mostly everyone browsed the internet using low/medium resolution large screen devices that provided the room for an extended validation style visual security indicator . Everything has moved on and purchases are made on small screen devices that

Re: [FORGED] Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 9:54 PM Peter Gutmann via dev-security-policy < dev-security-policy@lists.mozilla.org> wrote: > Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy > writes: > > >we conducted the same research with 85,000 active users over a period of > >12 months > > As I've already pointed out weeks

Re: [FORGED] Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

Apologies for the massive number of typos. I was angry when I read the response to my thoughtful messages. I tried my best to hold back. I didn’t even have the energy to check what I’d written before hitting send. > On Oct 24, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Paul Walsh wrote: > > >> On Oct 24, 2019, at

Re: [FORGED] Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

> On Oct 24, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote: > > Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy > writes: > >> we conducted the same research with 85,000 active users over a period of >> 12 months > > As I've already pointed out weeks ago when you first raised this, your > marketing department

Re: [FORGED] Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy writes: >we conducted the same research with 85,000 active users over a period of >12 months As I've already pointed out weeks ago when you first raised this, your marketing department conducted a survey of EV marketing effectiveness. If you have a

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

> On Oct 24, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Julien Vehent via dev-security-policy > wrote: > > On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 5:31:59 PM UTC-4, Paul Walsh wrote: >> There is zero data from any company to prove that browser UI for website >> identity can’t work. > >

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 5:31 PM Paul Walsh wrote: > So, the next time a person says “EV is broken” or “website identity can’t > work” please think about what I just said and imagine actual browser > designers and developers who were/are responsible for that work. They were > never given a chance

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

On Thursday, October 24, 2019 at 5:31:59 PM UTC-4, Paul Walsh wrote: > There is zero data from any company to prove that browser UI for website > identity can’t work. https://www.adambarth.com/papers/2007/jackson-simon-tan-barth.pdf "In this paper, we presented a controlled between-subjects

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

On Oct 24, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker via dev-security-policy wrote: > > Eric, > > I am not going to be gaslighted here. > > Just what was your email supposed to do other than "suppressing dialogue > within this community"? > > I was making no threat, but if I was still working

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

Eric, I am not going to be gaslighted here. Just what was your email supposed to do other than "suppressing dialogue within this community"? I was making no threat, but if I was still working for a CA, I would certainly get the impression that you were threatening me. The bullying and

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

Phillip, that was an unprofessional contribution to this list, that could be read as a legal threat, and could contribute to suppressing dialogue within this community. And, given that the employee to which it is clear you are referring is not only a respected community member, but literally a

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

> On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 03:35:52PM -0700, Kirk Hall via dev-security-policy > wrote: > > This is a mischaracterisation. The EV UI has not been removed, it has been > moved to a new location. > That's like, when I throw something away, I didn't actually threw it away, I just moved it to a

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:49 PM, Matt Palmer via dev-security-policy wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 03:35:52PM -0700, Kirk Hall via dev-security-policy > wrote: >> I also have a question for Mozilla on the removal of the EV UI. > > This is a mischaracterisation. The EV UI has not been

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

On 23/10/2019 01:49, Matt Palmer wrote: On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 03:35:52PM -0700, Kirk Hall via dev-security-policy wrote: I also have a question for Mozilla on the removal of the EV UI. This is a mischaracterisation. The EV UI has not been removed, it has been moved to a new location.

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 7:49 PM Matt Palmer via dev-security-policy < dev-security-policy@lists.mozilla.org> wrote: > On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 03:35:52PM -0700, Kirk Hall via > dev-security-policy wrote: > > I also have a question for Mozilla on the removal of the EV UI. > > This is a

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

The primary purpose of forwarding the Intent to Ship email to this list was to inform the community of this planned change and the reasoning behind it. Mozilla considered lots of information prior to announcing the change, and during the vigorous debate that ensued, we continued to listen without

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 03:35:52PM -0700, Kirk Hall via dev-security-policy wrote: > I also have a question for Mozilla on the removal of the EV UI. This is a mischaracterisation. The EV UI has not been removed, it has been moved to a new location. > So my question to Mozilla is, why did

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 1:38 PM Paul Walsh via dev-security-policy < dev-security-policy@lists.mozilla.org> wrote: > Thanks Johann. Much appreciated. Would you be kind enough to email me a > screen shot to save me the trouble of installing an older version and then > waiting for an update? :) > >

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

I also have a question for Mozilla on the removal of the EV UI. This issue started with a posting by Mozilla on August 12, but despite 237 subsequent postings from many members of the Mozilla community, I don't think Mozilla staff ever responded to anything or anyone - not to explain or

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

Thanks Johann. Much appreciated. Would you be kind enough to email me a screen shot to save me the trouble of installing an older version and then waiting for an update? :) Thanks, - Paul > On Oct 22, 2019, at 1:29 PM, Johann Hofmann wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > thanks for the heads up. This

Re: Firefox removes UI for site identity

Hi Paul, thanks for the heads up. This wasn't intentional and I've reached out to get the security UI changes added to the release notes for 70. You're right that this is significant enough to be included. The page should be updated very soon, so that most users will see the new version (due to

Firefox removes UI for site identity

Directly question for Mozilla. Today, the website identity UI was removed from Firefox. “We" new it was coming. But millions of users didn’t. Why wasn’t this mentioned in the release notes on the page that’s automatically opened following the update? Someone might say “they didn’t know it