On 07/22/2013 08:30 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
Well, assuming people use the local machine for reading their mails, and
not Thunderbird or so and not GMail and so on, or Zimbra or whatever
else people actually read mails with these days... None of these even do
local message reading.
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 6:52 PM, Billy Crook billycr...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Matthew Miller
mat...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:18:47AM -0500, Billy Crook wrote:
Since it _isn't_ served via DHCP in any environment I'm aware of, that's
Le Mer 24 juillet 2013 08:30, drago01 a écrit :
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 6:52 PM, Billy Crook billycr...@gmail.com wrote:
Default should include what people 'generally expect of a GNU+Linux
system' -- and that includes an MTA.
Citation needed. Given that one very distribution with a very big
On Monday 22 July 2013 20:18:04 Matthew Miller wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 03:14:32AM +0300, Oron Peled wrote:
BTW: nobody ever answered how desktop users are supposed to read the
output of their cron-jobs (they don't have permissions to read logs).
They do have permissions to
On Tuesday 23 July 2013 02:34:25 Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 23.07.13 03:14, Oron Peled (o...@actcom.co.il) wrote:
BTW: nobody ever answered how desktop users are supposed to read the
output of their cron-jobs (they don't have permissions to read logs).
Actually, if you'd look
On Mon, 22.07.13 19:33, Reindl Harald (h.rei...@thelounge.net) wrote:
Am 22.07.2013 18:29, schrieb Lennart Poettering:
If you want to centralize system configuration, rather then services,
then go ahead and do, that, but actually centralize *the configuration*,
not the service. In
On 07/23/2013 10:18 AM, Marcela Mašláňová wrote:
As a part of cronie upstream I should probably answer. Cron was
patched long time ago to log into syslog if mail can't be send. There
is also option for using syslog by default.
Should we change cron to be using syslog by default if this
On Tue, 23.07.13 04:03, Oron Peled (o...@actcom.co.il) wrote:
Cron was already mentioned, but every one seem to ignore the fact that
regular users don't have permission to read system logs.
journald actually splits out user logs and use filesystem ACLs to ensure
that the user gets
On Tue, 23.07.13 11:52, Billy Crook (billycr...@gmail.com) wrote:
Default should include what people 'generally expect of a GNU+Linux
system' -- and that includes an MTA. It should include a syslog, and
it should include screen too for that matter.
This is the let's do this out of tradition
On 07/24/2013 01:11 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
On 07/23/2013 10:18 AM, Marcela Mašláňová wrote:
As a part of cronie upstream I should probably answer. Cron was
patched long time ago to log into syslog if mail can't be send. There
is also option for using syslog by default.
Should we
Le Mer 24 juillet 2013 13:11, Lennart Poettering a écrit :
The second part of my mail that you conveniently removed actually
explains why that doesn't work: because the SASL auth is inherently
per-user configuration but in sendmail you can configure it only
globally for the client side.
Le Mer 24 juillet 2013 13:39, Lennart Poettering a écrit :
This is particularly a bad argument as most Linux distribution
installations do not include an MTA anymore (Ubuntu is substantially
more popular than Fedora, and not just on the desktop). There's enough
reason to believe that the
On 07/22/2013 05:36 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
Also, cronie will split up the messages
by line anyway if it logs to syslog instead of sendmail.
That sounds particularly horrible for concurrent cron jobs that would
thus have their output interleaved in the log.
--
Bob Nichols NOSPAM is
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 02:11:18PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le Mer 24 juillet 2013 13:11, Lennart Poettering a écrit :
The second part of my mail that you conveniently removed actually
explains why that doesn't work: because the SASL auth is inherently
per-user configuration but in
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
zbys...@in.waw.pl wrote:
Here, done, time elapsed: 1 min googling.
Great. But does this really solve anything except refuting the most
immediate statement by Lennart, taken out of context?
'Context' does not ameliorate a foundation
Le Mer 24 juillet 2013 15:58, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek a écrit :
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 02:11:18PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le Mer 24 juillet 2013 13:11, Lennart Poettering a écrit :
The second part of my mail that you conveniently removed actually
explains why that doesn't work:
Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de writes:
[...] essentially boils down to I hate change. Which is an OK
opinion to have, but certainly not four Fedora, where the four Fs
mean Freedom, Friends, Features, First. The First indicates that
we should be pioneers, and *not* the guys who never
Am 24.07.2013 13:11, schrieb Lennart Poettering:
On Mon, 22.07.13 19:33, Reindl Harald (h.rei...@thelounge.net) wrote:
Am 22.07.2013 18:29, schrieb Lennart Poettering:
If you want to centralize system configuration, rather then services,
then go ahead and do, that, but actually centralize
Am 24.07.2013 15:58, schrieb Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 02:11:18PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le Mer 24 juillet 2013 13:11, Lennart Poettering a écrit :
The second part of my mail that you conveniently removed actually
explains why that doesn't work: because
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Frank Ch. Eigler f...@redhat.com wrote:
It's tempting to carry this argument too far. We can be first with
good new ideas; first with experimental stuff; first with additions.
We need not be first with bad ideas (and discussions here are a way of
figuring out
On 07/15/2013 10:36 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
= Proposed System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail =
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NoDefaultSendmail
Change owner(s): Lennart Poettering lennart at poettering net, Matthew
Miller mattdm at fedoraproject org
No longer install an MTA
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 01:23:08PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
So this issue is still outstanding (but I'll bet you knew that)
Also as mentioned on this thread, this doesn't work for cron right now
as cron actually collects all log output of a job and then posts it
under its own
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 02:09:53PM +0200, Marcela Mašláňová wrote:
Should we change cron to be using syslog by default if this feature gets
approved?
Why? If you don't have MTA, it doesn't try to send email. I won't
plan change anything.
It might be nice for it to be able to do both.
--
On Wed, 2013-07-24 at 11:14 -0500, Billy Crook wrote:
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Frank Ch. Eigler f...@redhat.com wrote:
It's tempting to carry this argument too far. We can be first with
good new ideas; first with experimental stuff; first with additions.
We need not be first with
On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 15:10:05 -0700
Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Wed, 2013-07-24 at 11:14 -0500, Billy Crook wrote:
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Frank Ch. Eigler f...@redhat.com
wrote:
It's tempting to carry this argument too far. We can be first
with good new
On Wednesday 24 July 2013 13:23:08 Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 23.07.13 04:03, Oron Peled (o...@actcom.co.il) wrote:
There are two issues however:
* The log-splitting of journald is really nice feature. But it doesn't
work for cron:
$ echo '* * * * * /bin/echo Test
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 03:13:33AM +0300, Oron Peled wrote:
On Wednesday 24 July 2013 13:23:08 Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 23.07.13 04:03, Oron Peled (o...@actcom.co.il) wrote:
There are two issues however:
* The log-splitting of journald is really nice feature. But it doesn't
@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail
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devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
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devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
On 07/15/2013 03:45 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote:
On Seg, 2013-07-15 at 10:36 +0200, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
= Proposed System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail =
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NoDefaultSendmail
Change owner(s): Lennart Poettering lennart at poettering net, Matthew
Miller
On Mon, 2013-07-22 at 12:25 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:25 AM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
Even running the latest and greatest rawhide nothing desktop-side
caught a very basic event like a failing disk!
GNOME Disks is supposed to pop up a
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 03:13:28PM -0500, Billy Crook wrote:
I would love to see the day systemd is as polished, ubiquitous, and
robust as smtp. But until that happens, nobody is helped by removing
MTA from the default install. We're not there yet, and theres no
systemd and SMTP are not
Am 22.07.2013 18:29, schrieb Lennart Poettering:
If you want to centralize system configuration, rather then services,
then go ahead and do, that, but actually centralize *the configuration*,
not the service. In particular, because a centralized client-side SMTP
service is a really
Am 22.07.2013 18:51, schrieb Lennart Poettering:
On Fri, 19.07.13 14:47, Frank Ch. Eigler (f...@redhat.com) wrote:
And it's just not possible to automatically configure e-mail. [...]
As for outgoing SMTP, DHCP packets can identify servers; so can DNS
heuristics.
I have yet to see my
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 7:32 AM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote:
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 03:13:28PM -0500, Billy Crook wrote:
I would love to see the day systemd is as polished, ubiquitous, and
robust as smtp. But until that happens, nobody is helped by removing
MTA from the default
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Billy Crook billycr...@gmail.com wrote:
Sendmail or otherwise, an MTA BELONGS in Default.
There is no consensus on that, at all. Very successful competitors to
Fedora have removed it, and their users are happy.
m
--
martin.langh...@gmail.com
- ask
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 07:33:25PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
which could be *easy* solved by ask the users SMTP and credentials
at the installation, setup /etc/aliases as default forwarding the
messages to this address and configure SASL authentication
That really is only useful on a single
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 09:10:00AM -0500, Billy Crook wrote:
No. You are wrong. When Sendmail is on the chopping block because
let's just send anything that should get mailed, to systemd instead,
and let it pop up pretty graphical bubbles because nobody reads mail
anyways, the two are very
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Billy Crook billycr...@gmail.com
wrote:
Sendmail or otherwise, an MTA BELONGS in Default.
There is no consensus on that, at all. Very successful competitors to
Fedora have
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Matthew Miller
mat...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Also, though, please be aware that some individual sat down and installed
this system may not always be our main use case. All of these configure it
on install suggestions don't help us with the cloud image at all.
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:57:15AM -0400, Fulko Hew wrote:
But, personally, I agree with billycr...@gmail.com...
On the servers I run, and the server applications I've written,
the use of email is mandatory and the use of an MTA is the
best, most-efficient way to deal with the email.
None of
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:03:16AM -0500, Billy Crook wrote:
Also, though, please be aware that some individual sat down and installed
this system may not always be our main use case. All of these configure it
on install suggestions don't help us with the cloud image at all.
I see no reason
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:57:15AM -0400, Fulko Hew wrote:
But, personally, I agree with billycr...@gmail.com...
On the servers I run, and the server applications I've written,
the use of email is mandatory and the use of an MTA is the
best, most-efficient way to deal with the email.
I
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Matthew Miller
mat...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Since it _isn't_ served via DHCP in any environment I'm aware of, that's not
actually useful.
Nice to meet you Matt. As of this morning, it is served via DHCP in
mine. There's also that guy earlier in the thread.
Am 23.07.2013 16:37, schrieb Matthew Miller:
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 07:33:25PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
which could be *easy* solved by ask the users SMTP and credentials
at the installation, setup /etc/aliases as default forwarding the
messages to this address and configure SASL
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:18:47AM -0500, Billy Crook wrote:
Since it _isn't_ served via DHCP in any environment I'm aware of, that's not
actually useful.
Nice to meet you Matt. As of this morning, it is served via DHCP in
mine. There's also that guy earlier in the thread. So now you know
Le Mar 23 juillet 2013 17:05, Matthew Miller a écrit :
I say... servers should definitely have a default MTA.
We've never had any luck defining what a Fedora server looks like. That's
why I think it's better to have servers start from minimal and you can
build
up in kickstart. There, you
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Matthew Miller
mat...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:18:47AM -0500, Billy Crook wrote:
Since it _isn't_ served via DHCP in any environment I'm aware of, that's
not
actually useful.
Nice to meet you Matt. As of this morning, it is
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 06:21:45PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Look, the proposal is not calling to replace sendmail, it's calling to
remove any MTA. So sendmail is a bad MTA is not a good argument for this
No, it's *really* not calling to remove any MTA. It's calling for no MTA
to be
Once upon a time, Matthew Miller mat...@fedoraproject.org said:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 06:21:45PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Look, the proposal is not calling to replace sendmail, it's calling to
remove any MTA. So sendmail is a bad MTA is not a good argument for this
No, it's *really*
On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 11:52 -0500, Billy Crook wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Matthew Miller
mat...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:18:47AM -0500, Billy Crook wrote:
Since it _isn't_ served via DHCP in any environment I'm aware of, that's
not
actually
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org wrote:
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 04:09:32PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
the problem i see is when things like MTA and rsyslog are
removed from the defualt install many pakcgers will less
care about them in the future nor test how
Am 21.07.2013 21:20, schrieb Matthew Miller:
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 04:09:32PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
the problem i see is when things like MTA and rsyslog are
removed from the defualt install many pakcgers will less
care about them in the future nor test how well it works
That's a
On Sun, 2013-07-21 at 18:55 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Where is the desktop notification solution in Fedora? There is none able
to even remotely approach the capabilities of the cron + MTA bits you so
dislike.
You're ascribing emotions to a proposal where none exist. No-one said
they 'so
On Fri, 19.07.13 19:37, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote:
However, having the /usr/sbin/sendmail API available to applications
is valuable - it brings a significant system administration benefit of
centralizing the SMTP configuration.
Sure it is valuable. However, it's also a pretty bad
On Fri, 19.07.13 13:17, Billy Crook (billycr...@gmail.com) wrote:
Sendmail stays in Default unless there is compelling reason to switch to
postfix, exim, meta1, etc. Those users who wish to remove it are welcome
to do so. Nobody is stopping them. The default configuration of sendmail
poses
On Fri, 19.07.13 20:22, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Matthew Miller
mat...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 07:37:35PM +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
However, having the /usr/sbin/sendmail API available to applications
is valuable -
On Fri, 19.07.13 14:47, Frank Ch. Eigler (f...@redhat.com) wrote:
And it's just not possible to automatically configure e-mail. [...]
As for outgoing SMTP, DHCP packets can identify servers; so can DNS
heuristics.
I have yet to see my first DHCP server in the wild that actually supplies
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Lennart Poettering
mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
On Fri, 19.07.13 20:22, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Matthew Miller
mat...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 07:37:35PM +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
Le Lun 22 juillet 2013 18:36, Lennart Poettering a écrit :
There's
nothing special really about cron that would make it so much better
suitable for sending out its logs per mail, rather then just log them.
What makes cron and smtpd work well together is that they both perform
async
Le Lun 22 juillet 2013 18:29, Lennart Poettering a écrit :
If you want to centralize system configuration, rather then services,
then go ahead and do, that, but actually centralize *the configuration*,
not the service. In particular, because a centralized client-side SMTP
service is a really
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Lennart Poettering
mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
On Mon, 22.07.13 18:43, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote:
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Lennart Poettering
mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
Application that want to log shoud log. Applications that want to
On Mon, 22.07.13 18:43, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote:
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Lennart Poettering
mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
On Fri, 19.07.13 20:22, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Matthew Miller
mat...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Sat, 20.07.13 09:00, Robert Nichols (rnicholsnos...@comcast.net) wrote:
On 07/15/2013 09:14 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
This feature is about not doign local mail delivery by default, by not
installing any MTA. Instead you find the log output of cronjobs at the
same place as you find any
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 06:36:41PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
Let's not forget: this is not about removing software from the
distro. This is just about removing it from the default install, since
the current way it is set up by default it just eats up messages
silently, with not
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Lennart Poettering
mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
On Mon, 22.07.13 18:43, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote:
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Lennart Poettering
mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
On Fri, 19.07.13 20:22, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote:
On
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 06:50:17PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Actually, with the various Fedora MUAs I've used, it ended up being easier
to configure them to use local MTA as relay
If you are able to configure the MTA of your choice, then you
will be able to install that MTA when you need it.
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 06:53:24PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
What makes cron and smtpd work well together is that they both perform
async background computing. And many cron messages are not logs they're
notifications of an event the cron is polling for, or submission of job
results.
mån 2013-07-22 klockan 18:36 +0200 skrev Lennart Poettering:
Despite that I am pretty sure that most of the stuff we currently mail
(like the log output of cron jobs) simply makes no sense as mail, and
should much rather be treated exactly like all other log output. There's
nothing special
On Mon, 2013-07-22 at 19:09 +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Lennart Poettering
mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
On Mon, 22.07.13 18:43, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote:
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Lennart Poettering
mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:25 AM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
Even running the latest and greatest rawhide nothing desktop-side
caught a very basic event like a failing disk!
GNOME Disks is supposed to pop up a notification when SMART reports
pre-fail status for a disk, I
On Sat, 20.07.13 18:05, Lars E. Pettersson (l...@homer.se) wrote:
On 07/15/2013 07:54 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
Well, we don't even install any MUA by default currently that would read
local mail spools. Effectively, this means that currently the log output
of cronjobs is more or less
On Sun, 21.07.13 01:50, Oron Peled (o...@actcom.co.il) wrote:
On Friday 19 July 2013 15:46:25 Adam Williamson wrote:
... We don't set up any mail reader to read this mail out of the box.
OK, I won't count mailx and mutt because we talk about different audience,
should we open bug-reports
On Mon, 22.07.13 18:50, Nicolas Mailhot (nicolas.mail...@laposte.net) wrote:
Le Lun 22 juillet 2013 18:29, Lennart Poettering a écrit :
If you want to centralize system configuration, rather then services,
then go ahead and do, that, but actually centralize *the configuration*,
not the
On Sun, 21.07.13 16:09, Reindl Harald (h.rei...@thelounge.net) wrote:
Am 21.07.2013 16:05, schrieb Matthew Miller:
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 08:58:39AM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
it. Yet the something better never materialized. When I had a disk go
wrong lately I was notified by the big
Le Lun 22 juillet 2013 19:28, Matthew Miller a écrit :
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 06:53:24PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
What makes cron and smtpd work well together is that they both perform
async background computing. And many cron messages are not logs
they're
notifications of an event the
On Mon, 22.07.13 16:04, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote:
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org wrote:
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 04:09:32PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
the problem i see is when things like MTA and rsyslog are
removed from the defualt install
Le Lun 22 juillet 2013 20:40, Lennart Poettering a écrit :
I find it quite amazing that you actually use multiple different MUAs in
parallel. I mean, most people stick to one MUA usually, maybe two. But
you make it sound as if you need to access your emails through 5 or 10
or so, so that it
Le Lun 22 juillet 2013 20:23, Adam Williamson a écrit :
Just before this one gets any worse: it was Nicolas Mailhot who started
talking about banks sending email for some reason, not Miloslav.
Please do not attribute me what I didn't write. I didn't bring banks in
the discussion.
--
Nicolas
Le Lun 22 juillet 2013 20:52, Lennart Poettering a écrit :
This is not a valid argument. We cannot keep extending the core all the
time by adding more and more redundant components to them, just because
we believe this will cause APIs to be tested.
No one is asking to extend the core. You
On Mon, 22.07.13 19:19, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote:
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Lennart Poettering
mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
On Mon, 22.07.13 18:43, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote:
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Lennart Poettering
mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
On Mon, 2013-07-22 at 21:10 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le Lun 22 juillet 2013 20:23, Adam Williamson a écrit :
Just before this one gets any worse: it was Nicolas Mailhot who started
talking about banks sending email for some reason, not Miloslav.
Please do not attribute me what I
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Lennart Poettering
mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
On Fri, 19.07.13 13:17, Billy Crook (billycr...@gmail.com) wrote:
Sendmail stays in Default unless there is compelling reason to switch to
postfix, exim, meta1, etc. Those users who wish to remove it are welcome
On 07/22/2013 11:36 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
I am pretty sure that most of the stuff we currently mail
(like the log output of cron jobs) simply makes no sense as mail, and
should much rather be treated exactly like all other log output. There's
nothing special really about cron that would
On Mon, 22.07.13 15:26, Robert Nichols (rnicholsnos...@comcast.net) wrote:
On 07/22/2013 11:36 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
I am pretty sure that most of the stuff we currently mail
(like the log output of cron jobs) simply makes no sense as mail, and
should much rather be treated exactly
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:36:19AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
journald is in theory fine with 2^64 bytes per message. In practice (due
to the CPU cost of compressing large blobs with XZ while we write it to
disk) a few MB should be fine. Also, cronie will split up the messages
by line
On Mon, 22.07.13 19:29, Matthew Miller (mat...@fedoraproject.org) wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:36:19AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
journald is in theory fine with 2^64 bytes per message. In practice (due
to the CPU cost of compressing large blobs with XZ while we write it to
On Monday 22 July 2013 21:00:36 Lennart Poettering wrote:
If you argue from the viewpoint of how universially available an API is
to make it standard, then I would like to remind you that there are
probably more Ubuntu installations in the world thatn Fedora
installations, and they haven't
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 03:14:32AM +0300, Oron Peled wrote:
BTW: nobody ever answered how desktop users are supposed to read the
output of their cron-jobs (they don't have permissions to read logs).
They do have permissions to read journal entries that come from their
userid.
--
Matthew
On Tue, 23.07.13 03:14, Oron Peled (o...@actcom.co.il) wrote:
On Monday 22 July 2013 21:00:36 Lennart Poettering wrote:
If you argue from the viewpoint of how universially available an API is
to make it standard, then I would like to remind you that there are
probably more Ubuntu
Hi,
On Monday 22 July 2013 20:33:32 Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Sun, 21.07.13 01:50, Oron Peled (o...@actcom.co.il) wrote:
OK, I won't count mailx and mutt because we talk about different audience,
should we open bug-reports for the rest? (kmail? evolution?)
Goog luck filing bugs
Hi,
On Monday 22 July 2013 21:15:14 Lennart Poettering wrote:
The point I am trying to make is that if you have something that is
vulnerable to a DoS attack you need to have a strategy to handle
that.
A very simple strategy exists -- alias root's mail to a regular user.
I previously said it
Le Sam 20 juillet 2013 21:14, Adam Williamson a écrit :
I asked for evidence, not hypotheses. All you are currently doing is
making an assertion, over and over and over and over again.
Pot, kettle
I'll add another one: desktop people have complained for years just like
you it was a legacy
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Nicolas Mailhot
nicolas.mail...@laposte.net wrote:
Le Sam 20 juillet 2013 21:14, Adam Williamson a écrit :
I asked for evidence, not hypotheses. All you are currently doing is
making an assertion, over and over and over and over again.
Pot, kettle
I'll add
Le Dim 21 juillet 2013 09:17, drago01 a écrit :
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Nicolas Mailhot
nicolas.mail...@laposte.net wrote:
Le Sam 20 juillet 2013 21:14, Adam Williamson a écrit :
I asked for evidence, not hypotheses. All you are currently doing is
making an assertion, over and
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 08:58:39AM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
it. Yet the something better never materialized. When I had a disk go
wrong lately I was notified by the big ugly legacy system. I had *zero*
notification by all the better systems that were given as evidence.
Because the better
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 11:20:27AM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Then make something better. Removing the system you feel is not good
enough is not making something better, it's hoping for someone else to
scratch your hitch.
I don't think this hyperbole is useful to the conversation. First, no
Am 21.07.2013 16:05, schrieb Matthew Miller:
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 08:58:39AM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
it. Yet the something better never materialized. When I had a disk go
wrong lately I was notified by the big ugly legacy system. I had *zero*
notification by all the better systems
Le Dim 21 juillet 2013 16:05, Matthew Miller a écrit :
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 08:58:39AM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
it. Yet the something better never materialized. When I had a disk go
wrong lately I was notified by the big ugly legacy system. I had *zero*
notification by all the better
On 07/21/2013 03:17 AM, drago01 wrote:
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Nicolas Mailhot
nicolas.mail...@laposte.net wrote:
Le Sam 20 juillet 2013 21:14, Adam Williamson a écrit :
I asked for evidence, not hypotheses. All you are currently doing is
making an assertion, over and over and over
On Jul 21, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Nicolas Mailhot nicolas.mail...@laposte.net
wrote:
(state-of-the-art as in, what are Google
and Amazon using to notify their users of events? Mail messages!
If you're talking about google calendar events, email is used only because even
with Chrome the pop-up
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