Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hello Everyone, Regarding boot success determination: For the current Fedora GSoC project that I am participating in, I wrote greenboot, a generic health check framework for systemd: https://github.com/LorbusChris/greenboot In greenboot, health checks can be defined in the form of scripts and/or

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Le samedi 30 juin 2018 à 14:32 +0200, Hans de Goede a écrit : Hi > > 4. you check every single bit needed to use them works before > > declaring a boot successful > > A boot is declared successful if a user logs in (or the > user session starts if autologin is enabled) and the > usersession

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi, On 29-06-18 17:46, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: Le 2018-05-31 14:25, Hans de Goede a écrit : Originally I was planning on doing the failed-boot detect only for F30, but I agree it makes sense to have it for F29 and this will also give us some field testing of this while we still have a fallback

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Le 2018-05-31 14:25, Hans de Goede a écrit : Originally I was planning on doing the failed-boot detect only for F30, but I agree it makes sense to have it for F29 and this will also give us some field testing of this while we still have a fallback in the form of the 1 sec wait for ESC / F8.

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 06/06/2018 03:04 AM, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote: > On Friday, 01 June 2018 at 12:53, Hans de Goede wrote: >> On 01-06-18 11:54, Tomas Kovar wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I have two suggestions: >>> >>> - on UEFI systems, would it be possible to use an EFI variable to force >>> grub

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Friday, 01 June 2018 at 12:53, Hans de Goede wrote: > On 01-06-18 11:54, Tomas Kovar wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I have two suggestions: > > > > - on UEFI systems, would it be possible to use an EFI variable to force > > grub menu? That way, it would be possible to enter the menu from UEFI

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Am 01.06.2018 um 20:22 schrieb Chris Murphy: > Ironically, server, cloud, and VMs all benefit the most from the > feature. I'm just a user/bystander for the most part of this discussion but I feel I have to correct this statement: For the most part, server boot time is determined by firmware

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Dne 1.6.2018 v 19:00 Jason L Tibbitts III napsal(a): >> "TK" == Tomas Kovar writes: > TK> - this one is on the polish side of things: > [don't keep bouncing to text mode] > > I might also add that as part of this, we'd also need to get rid of the > very early message about EFI secure boot

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi, On 04-06-18 09:16, Hans de Goede wrote: Hi, Note I've dropped the fedora-devel list (-ETOOMUCHBIKESHED) and added Javier and Jan to the Cc. Ugh, so clearly I failed to remove fedora-devel from the CC. Ah well. I hope this mistake shows that there is nothing nefarious going on here and

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi, Note I've dropped the fedora-devel list (-ETOOMUCHBIKESHED) and added Javier and Jan to the Cc. On 01-06-18 20:03, Peter Jones wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 05:47:36PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Hi, On 31-05-18 15:20, Robert Marcano wrote: On 05/31/2018 06:52 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 06/01/2018 02:03 PM, Peter Jones wrote: > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 05:47:36PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On 31-05-18 15:20, Robert Marcano wrote: >>> On 05/31/2018 06:52 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: ... This will basically get us back the F28 behavior of showing the menu

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 06/01/2018 02:27 AM, Gerd Hoffmann wrote: > Hi, > >> Side note, android's 'reboot' cmd can take an argument, like 'reboot >> fastboot' or 'reboot recovery'.. that might be one of the few features >> from android worth copying ;-) > > I'm still missing something simliar to "lilo -R " in the

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: > Hi, > > On 01-06-18 20:38, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: >>> >>> On Jun 1, 2018, at 1:04 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> First of all I want to thank everyone for their input. >>> >>> I also want to make clear that the hide the

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 2:58 PM Tomasz Torcz wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 03, 2018 at 02:37:30PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 10:42 AM Ken Coar wrote: > > > > > > > > - > > > > Fedora > > > > Recovery options > > > >

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Sun, Jun 03, 2018 at 02:37:30PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote: > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 10:42 AM Ken Coar wrote: > > > > > > - > > > Fedora > > > Recovery options > > > |`- Fedora (older kernel, 4.13.0-103) > > > |`- Fedora (older

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 10:42 AM Ken Coar wrote: > > On 06/01/2018 10:29 AM, David Sommerseth wrote: > > > > So the menu could look something like > > > > - > > Fedora > > Recovery options > > |`- Fedora (older kernel, 4.13.0-103) > >

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi, On 01-06-18 20:38, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: On Jun 1, 2018, at 1:04 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: Hi All, First of all I want to thank everyone for their input. I also want to make clear that the hide the menu + not listening for a keypress at all (aka fastboot) is a Fedora 30 thing, quoting

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 9:31 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: > Note that this is exactly why this is a F30 thing, to give us > a chance to figure out how exactly to detect a failed boot. > > Also I would like to note that Windows has been doing more or > less the same since Vista and it does not seem

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 9:00 AM, John Florian wrote: > Also, I'm entirely unclear on the scope. Is the affecting Fedora > Workstation (GNOME) only or all spins? The proposal says Workstation > but it doesn't explicitly exempt the others, unless I missed something. > If it's confined to the

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Chris Adams kirjoitti 31.05.2018 klo 20:09: Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: On 31-05-18 15:08, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: And for F30, single OS install we get: 1) grub menu not shown, 0 second timeout, no way to get to the menu 2) grub menu shown with 5

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 06/01/2018 12:10 PM, Rex Dieter wrote: > Michael Watters wrote: > >> What about users that don't use a graphical login manager? Personally I >> *like* seeing boot messages so that I know what is going on. >> >> Having the menu available is also quite useful for booting into rescue >> mode or

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 06/01/2018 03:07 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: > Hans de Goede writes: >> 1) . . ., no way to get to the menu > I think this steps over a line we should not cross. > > There's a huge difference between HIDING grub's functionality, and > essentially DISABLING it. While I'm opposted to hiding the grub

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hans de Goede writes: > 1) . . ., no way to get to the menu I think this steps over a line we should not cross. There's a huge difference between HIDING grub's functionality, and essentially DISABLING it. While I'm opposted to hiding the grub menu in general, as long as there's some obvious

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:09 AM, Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: >> On 31-05-18 15:08, Chris Adams wrote: >> >Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: >> >>And for F30, single OS install we get: >> >> >> >>1) grub menu not shown, 0 second timeout, no way to get to the

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 06/01/2018 02:39 PM, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: >> On Jun 1, 2018, at 1:04 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> First of all I want to thank everyone for their input. >> >> I also want to make clear that the hide the menu + >> not listening for a keypress at all (aka fastboot) is a >>

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

> On Jun 1, 2018, at 1:04 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: > > Hi All, > > First of all I want to thank everyone for their input. > > I also want to make clear that the hide the menu + > not listening for a keypress at all (aka fastboot) is a > Fedora 30 thing, quoting myself: > > "For F29, single OS

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:53 AM, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 09:08:28AM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: >> > I'm working on improving the Fedora boot experience, with the >> > end goal being a user pressing the on button and then going >> > to the graphical login manager without

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 05:47:36PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: > Hi, > > On 31-05-18 15:20, Robert Marcano wrote: > > On 05/31/2018 06:52 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: > > > ... > > > This will basically get us back the F28 behavior of showing the > > > menu but only after a failed boot, I think that

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

> "TK" == Tomas Kovar writes: TK> - this one is on the polish side of things: [don't keep bouncing to text mode] I might also add that as part of this, we'd also need to get rid of the very early message about EFI secure boot being enabled. Then we'd be left only with the random kernel

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Michael Watters wrote: > What about users that don't use a graphical login manager? Personally I > *like* seeing boot messages so that I know what is going on. > > Having the menu available is also quite useful for booting into rescue > mode or selecting a different kernel. Note, this is all

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:23:35PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm working on improving the Fedora boot experience, with the > end goal being a user pressing the on button and then going > to the graphical login manager without him seeing any > text messages / menus filled with

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Well said.  Seems like Fedora is slowly turning into Fisher Price My First Linux instead of being a distro that actually respects its users.  IME people that run Fedora usually know what they're doing and trying to obfuscate and hide things simply makes the distro *harder* to use. On 06/01/2018

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

What about users that don't use a graphical login manager?  Personally I *like* seeing boot messages so that I know what is going on. Having the menu available is also quite useful for booting into rescue mode or selecting a different kernel. On 05/31/2018 06:23 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: > Hi

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 06/01/2018 10:29 AM, David Sommerseth wrote: > > So the menu could look something like > > - > Fedora > Recovery options > |`- Fedora (older kernel, 4.13.0-103) > |`- Fedora (older kernel, 4.14.5-300) > |`- Fedora (older

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 06/01/2018 04:04 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: > > For F30, single OS Fedora Workstation install install we get: > > 1) grub menu not shown, 0 second timeout, no way to get to the menu ^ This scares me and I would not like to see

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 31/05/18 12:23, Hans de Goede wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm working on improving the Fedora boot experience, with the > end goal being a user pressing the on button and then going > to the graphical login manager without him seeing any > text messages / menus filled with technical jargon. Making

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Dne 1.6.2018 v 15:51 Hans de Goede napsal(a): Hi, On 01-06-18 15:26, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: For F30, single OS Fedora Workstation install install we get: 1) grub menu not shown, 0 second timeout, no way to get to the menu What I haven't seen answered is

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi, On 01-06-18 15:26, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: For F30, single OS Fedora Workstation install install we get: 1) grub menu not shown, 0 second timeout, no way to get to the menu What I haven't seen answered is this: what do we really gain from this? Your

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: > For F30, single OS Fedora Workstation install install we get: > > 1) grub menu not shown, 0 second timeout, no way to get to the menu What I haven't seen answered is this: what do we really gain from this? Your initial message said that the EFI firmware

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi, On 01-06-18 11:54, Tomas Kovar wrote: Hi all, I have two suggestions: - on UEFI systems, would it be possible to use an EFI variable to force grub menu? That way, it would be possible to enter the menu from UEFI boot loader or shell, even if the system itself is in non-working state or

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi all, I have two suggestions: - on UEFI systems, would it be possible to use an EFI variable to force grub menu? That way, it would be possible to enter the menu from UEFI boot loader or shell, even if the system itself is in non-working state or on read-only device. - this one is on the

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi, > Side note, android's 'reboot' cmd can take an argument, like 'reboot > fastboot' or 'reboot recovery'.. that might be one of the few features > from android worth copying ;-) I'm still missing something simliar to "lilo -R " in the world of modern boot loaders. This used to set the lilo

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi All, First of all I want to thank everyone for their input. I also want to make clear that the hide the menu + not listening for a keypress at all (aka fastboot) is a Fedora 30 thing, quoting myself: "For F29, single OS Fedora Workstation install we get: 1) grub menu hidden by default with

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 05/31/2018 05:26 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote: On 05/31/2018 08:42 AM, Gerald B. Cox wrote: I'm fine with changing the default - I understand that under normal circumstances most people could care less about seeing the screen - but I do strongly agree with the comment above.  When things

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

With respect, I am opposed to the proposal. In essence, I think this boils down to: function > form. I've been in too many situations where hidden GRUB menus resulted in having to "guess" when the firmware has finally started the bootloader and what would be a quick 5 second cmdline change turns

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

100% agreed. how ever enable an option to automatic enable grub bootloader menu when something went wrong with the boot process, or system crash. This will help alot to users like me. :) ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Chris Adams writes: > If I know I want the menu (say I need to boot single-user to fix > something), how would I do that in this setup? Ah, that reminds me of the good old days of looking up on the internet which of the many keys on the keyboard gets me into the BIOS setup menu...

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:09:45PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: > > On 31-05-18 15:08, Chris Adams wrote: > > >Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: > > >>And for F30, single OS install we get: > > >> > > >>1) grub menu not shown, 0 second timeout, no way to

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hans de Goede wrote: > On 31-05-18 15:20, Robert Marcano wrote: > > What is the definition of a successful boot? I ask because a machine could > > boot perfectly, and when you try to interact with it on the login screen, > > bugs on the display driver can change the screen to garbage (I have

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 05/31/2018 07:25 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: So for F29, single OS install we get: 1) grub menu hidden by default with a 1 second timeout to press ESC or F8 to show it 2) grub menu shown with 5 sec timeout after a failed boot 5 seconds seems like an awfully short timeout after a failed boot.

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, 31 May 2018 17:43:13 +0200 Hans de Goede wrote: > TL;DR: Yes you will still be able to do this with a simple 1 time > configfile change. Thanks, seems you have all your ducks in a row. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, 2018-05-31 at 06:42 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote: > > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Chris Adams > wrote: > > Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: > > > And for F30, single OS install we get: > > > > > > 1) grub menu not shown, 0 second timeout, no way to get to the > > menu > > >

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: > On 31-05-18 15:08, Chris Adams wrote: > >Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: > >>And for F30, single OS install we get: > >> > >>1) grub menu not shown, 0 second timeout, no way to get to the menu > >>2) grub menu shown with 5 sec timeout after a failed

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 09:08:28AM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: > > I'm working on improving the Fedora boot experience, with the > > end goal being a user pressing the on button and then going > > to the graphical login manager without him seeing any > > text messages / menus filled with technical

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi, On 31-05-18 15:20, Robert Marcano wrote: On 05/31/2018 06:52 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: ... This will basically get us back the F28 behavior of showing the menu but only after a failed boot, I think that is a good solution, do you agree? What is the definition of a successful boot? I ask

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi, On 31-05-18 16:40, stan wrote: On Thu, 31 May 2018 12:23:35 +0200 Hans de Goede wrote: Hi All, I'm working on improving the Fedora boot experience, with the end goal being a user pressing the on button and then going to the graphical login manager without him seeing any text messages /

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: > Hi, > > On 31-05-18 15:08, Chris Adams wrote: >> >> Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: >>> >>> And for F30, single OS install we get: >>> >>> 1) grub menu not shown, 0 second timeout, no way to get to the menu >>> 2) grub menu shown

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi, On 31-05-18 15:08, Colin Walters wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2018, at 6:23 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: Hi All, I'm working on improving the Fedora boot experience, with the end goal being a user pressing the on button and then going to the graphical login manager without him seeing any text

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi, On 31-05-18 15:08, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: And for F30, single OS install we get: 1) grub menu not shown, 0 second timeout, no way to get to the menu 2) grub menu shown with 5 sec timeout after a failed boot If I know I want the menu (say I need to boot

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hans de Goede writes: For F29 the plan is to just hide it (unless a previous boot failed) What is the exact criteria for "previous boot failed", I'm wondering. Even if you reach as far as the GDM screen it's still possible that something is so horked up to the point that you can't log in,

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, 31 May 2018 12:23:35 +0200 Hans de Goede wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm working on improving the Fedora boot experience, with the > end goal being a user pressing the on button and then going > to the graphical login manager without him seeing any > text messages / menus filled with technical

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 05/31/2018 08:42 AM, Gerald B. Cox wrote: I'm fine with changing the default - I understand that under normal circumstances most people could care less about seeing the screen - but I do strongly agree with the comment above.  When things sometimes go south and you need that menu, there

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: > > And for F30, single OS install we get: > > > > 1) grub menu not shown, 0 second timeout, no way to get to the menu > > 2) grub menu shown with 5 sec timeout after a failed boot > > If I know I want

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 05/31/2018 06:52 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: ... This will basically get us back the F28 behavior of showing the menu but only after a failed boot, I think that is a good solution, do you agree? What is the definition of a successful boot? I ask because a machine could boot perfectly, and

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, May 31, 2018, at 6:23 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm working on improving the Fedora boot experience, with the > end goal being a user pressing the on button and then going > to the graphical login manager without him seeing any > text messages / menus filled with technical

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Once upon a time, Hans de Goede said: > And for F30, single OS install we get: > > 1) grub menu not shown, 0 second timeout, no way to get to the menu > 2) grub menu shown with 5 sec timeout after a failed boot If I know I want the menu (say I need to boot single-user to fix something), how

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi, On 31-05-18 13:59, Stephen Gallagher wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:53 AM Hans de Goede mailto:hdego...@redhat.com>> wrote: Hi, On 31-05-18 12:36, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:24 AM Hans de Goede mailto:hdego...@redhat.com>

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:53 AM Hans de Goede wrote: > Hi, > > On 31-05-18 12:36, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:24 AM Hans de Goede > wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I'm working on improving the Fedora boot experience, with the > >

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi, On 31-05-18 12:36, Stephen Gallagher wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:24 AM Hans de Goede mailto:hdego...@redhat.com>> wrote: Hi All, I'm working on improving the Fedora boot experience, with the end goal being a user pressing the on button and then going to the graphical

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On 05/31/2018 12:23 PM, Hans de Goede wrote: > The goal if this email is to: > 1) Give people an advance warning about the plan to change > this so we can discuss this early on Actually I'm not a fan of this change. While it was easy to explain end users they can boot to an older, usually working

Re: Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:24 AM Hans de Goede wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm working on improving the Fedora boot experience, with the > end goal being a user pressing the on button and then going > to the graphical login manager without him seeing any > text messages / menus filled with technical

Hiding the grub menu by default on single OS installs

Hi All, I'm working on improving the Fedora boot experience, with the end goal being a user pressing the on button and then going to the graphical login manager without him seeing any text messages / menus filled with technical jargon. IIRC we used to hide the grub-menu by default on single OS