[freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Sebastian Spaeth
From: Ian Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > By now we are all painfully aware of the very correct observation that there can be no reliably enforceable negative trust on the Internet. Unfortunately, those that insist on repeating this fact over and over again fail to see that even though negative tru

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: New proposal for QRing and Load Balancing.

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Tom Kaitchuck wrote: On Monday 10 November 2003 04:19 pm, Ken Corson wrote: Tom- If I follow you correctly, you are saying that a node may choose to slant it's bandwidth usage in favor of sending queries on behalf of the local node, and disfavor the service of data transfer to others. If a node

Re: [freenet-dev] New proposal for QRing and Load Balancing.

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Tom Kaitchuck wrote: OK, Here is a possible solution that addresses most of the current issues we are currently seeing. requests out of both ends of the queue. One end is a LIFO. This would be the default end. When a new thread becomes available, it grabs a request from this end and removes it

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/node ConnectionOpener.java, 1.3.2.7, 1.3.2.8 FailureTable.java, 1.9.4.1.2.2, 1.9.4.1.2.3 Main.java, 1.102.2.30.2.32, 1.102.2.30.2.33 Node.java, 1.82.2.28.2.32, 1.82.2.28.2.33

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/node In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/node Modified Files: Tag: stable ConnectionOpener.java FailureTable.java Main.java Node.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, time, key} ite

[freenet-dev] Freenet Stable Build 5032

2003-11-10 Thread Toad
Freenet stable build 5032 is now available. Use your update utility to upgrade (freenet-webinstall.exe or update.sh depending on platform). It is also available from http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/freenet-latest.jar (stop your node, install this over your current freenet.jar, start your node)

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: New proposal for QRing and Load Balancing.

2003-11-10 Thread Tom Kaitchuck
On Monday 10 November 2003 04:19 pm, Ken Corson wrote: > Tom- >If I follow you correctly, you are saying that a node may choose to > slant it's bandwidth usage in favor of sending queries on behalf of > the local node, and disfavor the service of data transfer to others. > If a node sets rtMaxN

Re: [freenet-dev] More musings on NGR and load-balancing

2003-11-10 Thread Tom Kaitchuck
On Monday 10 November 2003 03:16 pm, Ken Corson wrote: > Ian Clarke wrote: > > One very-easily implemented approach might be to not route to a node for > > a period of time after a QR. If the node then QRs again, we wait twice > > as long (ie. an exponential backoff). We had something like this i

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/node/states/data SendData.java, 1.13.6.4, 1.13.6.5

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/node/states/data In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/node/states/data Modified Files: Tag: stable SendData.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, time, key} items separately - can be

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/node/states/request RequestState.java, 1.5.4.1.2.6, 1.5.4.1.2.7 DataPending.java, 1.10.4.1.2.5, 1.10.4.1.2.6

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/node/states/request In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/node/states/request Modified Files: Tag: stable RequestState.java DataPending.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, time, key

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/support/graph Bitmap.java, 1.1.6.5, 1.1.6.6 Color.java, 1.1.6.2, 1.1.6.3

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/support/graph In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/support/graph Modified Files: Tag: stable Bitmap.java Color.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, time, key} items separately - can

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet Version.java, 1.90.2.50.2.57, 1.90.2.50.2.58 PeerPacketMessage.java, 1.19.2.1, 1.19.2.2 Key.java, 1.4.6.3, 1.4.6.4 PeerHandler.java, 1.37.2.2, 1.37.2.3 Core.java, 1.30.2.4.2.6, 1.30.2.4.2.7 OpenConnectionManager.java, 1.26.2.5.2.17, 1.26.2.5.2.18 ConnectionHandler.java, 1.26.2.5.2.19, 1.26.2.5.2.20

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet Modified Files: Tag: stable Version.java PeerPacketMessage.java Key.java PeerHandler.java Core.java OpenConnectionManager.java ConnectionHandler.java Log Message: 5032: Ma

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/node/http/infolets GeneralInfolet.java, 1.6.2.3.2.7, 1.6.2.3.2.8

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/node/http/infolets In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/node/http/infolets Modified Files: Tag: stable GeneralInfolet.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, time, key} items separatel

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/support/servlet/http HttpServletRequestImpl.java, 1.5.4.2, 1.5.4.3 HttpSupport.java, 1.1.1.1.4.1, 1.1.1.1.4.1.2.1

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/support/servlet/http In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/support/servlet/http Modified Files: Tag: stable HttpServletRequestImpl.java HttpSupport.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HT

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/node/states/announcing ExecuteAnnouncement.java, 1.4.4.2.2.3, 1.4.4.2.2.4 Announcing.java, 1.14.4.4.2.3, 1.14.4.4.2.4 AnnouncingState.java, 1.1.1.1.4.1.2.2, 1.1.1.1.4.1.2.3 SendAnnouncement.java, 1.9.4.2.2.4, 1.9.4.2.2.5 CompleteAnnouncement.java, 1.5.4.1.2.2, 1.5.4.1.2.3

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/node/states/announcing In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/node/states/announcing Modified Files: Tag: stable ExecuteAnnouncement.java Announcing.java AnnouncingState.java SendAnnouncement.java CompleteAnnoun

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/support/test URLDecoderTest.java, 1.1, 1.1.6.1 KeyTest.java, 1.1, 1.1.6.1 RedBlackTreeTest.java, 1.4, 1.4.6.1 SkiplistTest.java, 1.2.4.1, 1.2.4.1.2.1

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/support/test In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/support/test Modified Files: Tag: stable URLDecoderTest.java KeyTest.java RedBlackTreeTest.java SkiplistTest.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src Makefile.gcj,1.22.2.6.2.4,1.22.2.6.2.5

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src Modified Files: Tag: stable Makefile.gcj Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, time, key} items separately - can be more than one per key. Should increase FT effecti

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/thread YThreadFactory.java, 1.3.2.1, 1.3.2.2 FastThreadFactory.java, 1.18.2.2.2.2, 1.18.2.2.2.3 ThreadFactory.java, 1.7.2.1.2.1, 1.7.2.1.2.2 QThreadFactory.java, 1.19.2.2.2.6, 1.19.2.2.2.7

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/thread In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/thread Modified Files: Tag: stable YThreadFactory.java FastThreadFactory.java ThreadFactory.java QThreadFactory.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure tab

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/message/client/FEC FECMakeMetadata.java, 1.1.4.1.2.1, 1.1.4.1.2.2 FECSegmentSplitFile.java, 1.1.6.1, 1.1.6.2 BlockMap.java, 1.1.4.1, 1.1.4.1.2.1 SegmentHeader.java, 1.1, 1.1.6.1 FECSegmentFile.java, 1.1.4.1.2.1, 1.1.4.1.2.2

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/message/client/FEC In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/message/client/FEC Modified Files: Tag: stable FECMakeMetadata.java FECSegmentSplitFile.java BlockMap.java SegmentHeader.java FECSegmentFile.java Log Me

[freenet-CVS] freenet Makefile,1.42.4.4.2.2,1.42.4.4.2.3

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000 Modified Files: Tag: stable Makefile Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, time, key} items separately - can be more than one per key. Should increase FT effectiveness.

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/support FakeRandomAccessFilePool.java, NONE, 1.1.2.1 RealRandomAccessFilePool.java, NONE, 1.1.2.1 RandomAccessFilePool.java, 1.4.2.1, 1.4.2.2

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/support In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/support Modified Files: Tag: stable RandomAccessFilePool.java Added Files: Tag: stable FakeRandomAccessFilePool.java RealRandomAccessFilePool.java Log Messag

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/fs/dir NativeFSDirectory.java, 1.66.2.16.2.25, 1.66.2.16.2.26

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/fs/dir In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/fs/dir Modified Files: Tag: stable NativeFSDirectory.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, time, key} items separately - can be more than

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/client InternalClient.java, 1.10.4.5.2.10, 1.10.4.5.2.11 AutoRequester.java, 1.6.4.11.2.14, 1.6.4.11.2.15 ClientCore.java, 1.4.4.2, 1.4.4.3 VirtualClient.java, 1.3.4.4.2.4, 1.3.4.4.2.5

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/client In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/client Modified Files: Tag: stable InternalClient.java AutoRequester.java ClientCore.java VirtualClient.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/interfaces BaseLocalNIOInterface.java, 1.2.2.5, 1.2.2.6

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/interfaces In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/interfaces Modified Files: Tag: stable BaseLocalNIOInterface.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, time, key} items separately - can b

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/node/states/announcement NewAnnouncement.java, 1.1.1.1.4.4.2.3, 1.1.1.1.4.4.2.4

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/node/states/announcement In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/node/states/announcement Modified Files: Tag: stable NewAnnouncement.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, time, key} it

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/support/servlet ServletResponseImpl.java, 1.2.4.1.2.1, 1.2.4.1.2.2 ServletContextImpl.java, 1.3.4.1, 1.3.4.2

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/support/servlet In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/support/servlet Modified Files: Tag: stable ServletResponseImpl.java ServletContextImpl.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, tim

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/config Config.java, 1.5.4.2.2.3, 1.5.4.2.2.4

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/config In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/config Modified Files: Tag: stable Config.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, time, key} items separately - can be more than one per key

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/client/http NodeStatusServlet.java, 1.43.2.4.2.10, 1.43.2.4.2.11

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/client/http In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/client/http Modified Files: Tag: stable NodeStatusServlet.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, time, key} items separately - can be

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/node/states/FNP NewRequest.java, 1.18.2.5.2.7, 1.18.2.5.2.8

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/node/states/FNP In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv16000/src/freenet/node/states/FNP Modified Files: Tag: stable NewRequest.java Log Message: 5032: Major changes to failure table Track {HTL, time, key} items separately - can be

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/node/rt StandardNodeEstimator.java, 1.28, 1.29

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/node/rt In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv14014/src/freenet/node/rt Modified Files: StandardNodeEstimator.java Log Message: 6324: Don't substitute pLegitDNF for pDNF when pDNF is 0.0, for 2 reasons: 1. FP == is unreliable. 2. Only reason

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet Version.java, 1.520, 1.521 PeerPacketMessage.java, 1.21, 1.22

2003-11-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv14014/src/freenet Modified Files: Version.java PeerPacketMessage.java Log Message: 6324: Don't substitute pLegitDNF for pDNF when pDNF is 0.0, for 2 reasons: 1. FP == is unreliable. 2. Only reason it wou

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Brandon Low
Yeah, it could be accounted for... meh... On Mon, 11/10/03 at 20:49:59 -0500, Ken Corson wrote: > Brandon Low wrote: > >On Mon, 11/10/03 at 20:25:50 -0500, Ken Corson wrote: > > > >>Brandon Low wrote: > >> > >>>Absolutely NOT, if node A waits for it's next request until it gets a > >>>response to

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Ed Tomlinson
On November 10, 2003 08:13 pm, Brandon Low wrote: > On Tue, 11/11/03 at 00:44:38 +, Ian Clarke wrote: > > > Brandon Low wrote: > > > > > Freenet > > >doesn't work this way, watch this: > > > > > >Node A wants something from Node B. > > >A sends a request to B > > >A replies and says "wait X" >

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Brandon Low wrote: On Mon, 11/10/03 at 20:25:50 -0500, Ken Corson wrote: Brandon Low wrote: Absolutely NOT, if node A waits for it's next request until it gets a response to it's first request, we have just gone to a protocol with worse problems than TCP w/o tcp transmit windows. This would caus

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Brandon Low
On Mon, 11/10/03 at 20:25:50 -0500, Ken Corson wrote: > Brandon Low wrote: > >Absolutely NOT, if node A waits for it's next request until it gets a > >response to it's first request, we have just gone to a protocol with > >worse problems than TCP w/o tcp transmit windows. This would cause > >nodes

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Brandon Low wrote: On Tue, 11/11/03 at 00:44:38 +, Ian Clarke wrote: Brandon Low wrote: Freenet doesn't work this way, watch this: Node A wants something from Node B. A sends a request to B A replies and says "wait X" B says to itself "OK, I'll wait X" No, A sends a request to B. B eventually

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Ian Clarke wrote: Ed Tomlinson wrote: What Ken suggested is that B remember what it told A and should not respond to A at all if it routes early - this forces A to wait for a timeout... It also helps to perserve the outgoing bandwidth. Well, I think that is too forgiving. If A routes early the

[freenet-dev] Immediate plans re QRs etc

2003-11-10 Thread Toad
I will now merge the current 6323 (plus the recent improvement in RT sorting) to stable. After that, we will see if the recent changes have made much difference, and implement exponential backoff on QueryRejected's, a strategy very similar to what we used during the supposed golden age, which is si

Re: [freenet-dev] More musings on NGR and load-balancing

2003-11-10 Thread Juiceman
  - Original Message - From: Ian Clarke To: Discussion of development issues Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 1:06 PM Subject: [freenet-dev] More musings on NGR and load-balancing The more I think about it, the more I think that putting NGR in-charge of l

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Brandon Low
On Tue, 11/11/03 at 00:44:38 +, Ian Clarke wrote: > Brandon Low wrote: > > Freenet > >doesn't work this way, watch this: > > > >Node A wants something from Node B. > >A sends a request to B > >A replies and says "wait X" > >B says to itself "OK, I'll wait X" > > No, A sends a request to B. B

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Ian Clarke
Ed Tomlinson wrote: What Ken suggested is that B remember what it told A and should not respond to A at all if it routes early - this forces A to wait for a timeout... It also helps to perserve the outgoing bandwidth. Well, I think that is too forgiving. If A routes early then it is knowingly

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Ian Clarke
Brandon Low wrote: How? Any node which sends another request before X has elapsed gets banned? Well, X is node specific, so any node which sends a request before *its* X has elapsed is clearly not following the rules and should be banned. Any node which sends more than 2 before X has elapsed? We

[freenet-dev] Possible NGRouting bugs.

2003-11-10 Thread Tom Kaitchuck
OK, I think I've found a few errors in how NGrouting operates. Please note that anything I say here takes precedence over my previous message. Also could someone please check all of this. I can't verify my own sanity :) First, very minor: line 643 of /node/rt/ResponceTimeEstimator if ((

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Brandon Low
You and edt win. If we just drop requests on the floor that go over what we are allowing from another node, it only hurts the requesting node ont to listen. The synchronization/network latency issues would be pretty hard to overcome, how for instance would a timing based approach like this handle

[freenet-dev] Updating Snapshots

2003-11-10 Thread Roger Hayter
I've noticed that snapshots are often not updated over the weekend, and there may be a good practical reason for this: however, up to now (Monday, 23.08UTC), the unstable latest snapshot has not been updated to 6323. -- Roger Hayter ___ Devl mailing li

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: New proposal for QRing and Load Balancing.

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Tom Kaitchuck wrote: On Monday 10 November 2003 10:49 am, Martin Stone Davis wrote: Tom Kaitchuck wrote: Please read my message where I bitch about the doctor's office alalogy. Bottom line: We are NOT trying to prevent any from making as many requests as they like on the network. We ARE trying to p

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Brandon Low wrote: How? Any node which sends another request before X has elapsed gets banned? Any node which sends more than 2 before X has elapsed? Freenet Any solution which you find to this will rely on properly behaving other nodes, and cannot be solved by banning misbehavers. I respectful

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Ed Tomlinson
Actually Ken mentioned a good idea. Try this for size Node A want something from B A send request to B B QRs to A saying wait for X at this point several things can happen A waits for X before routing to B again or A ignores the wait and routes to B when it wants to What Ken suggested is that B

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Ian Clarke wrote: > >> Martin Stone Davis wrote: >> 1) Given the difficulty of circumventing negative trust will users actually be bothered to do it? >>> It wouldn't be so difficult if someone else had already gone through >>> the trouble of creating and distributing SuperFreenet

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Ian Clarke wrote: Ok, we forget about quotas, nice, but overcomplicated. We add a "don't send a request to me more often than X milliseconds" field to a few messages sent in response to requests. Two options about how to calculate X: 1) Empirical We calculate X to be ((60*60*1000) / M) / T 2) E

Re: [freenet-dev] Big performace change in 6323?

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Brandon Low wrote: Ahh, but look at your send queue... there isn't so much a performance increase as a decrease in QRing and a decrease in BW-per-transfer. You say tomaeto, I say tomahto ... you're a pragmatist, Brandon :) As am I - certainly not an optimist, hopefully not a pessimist. Thank you fo

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Brandon Low
How? Any node which sends another request before X has elapsed gets banned? Any node which sends more than 2 before X has elapsed? Freenet doesn't work this way, watch this: Node A wants something from Node B. A sends a request to B A replies and says "wait X" B says to itself "OK, I'll wait X"

Re: [freenet-dev] More musings on NGR and load-balancing

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Ian Clarke wrote: One very-easily implemented approach might be to not route to a node for a period of time after a QR. If the node then QRs again, we wait twice as long (ie. an exponential backoff). We had something like this in the old days. Of course, if this doesn't work we should go back

Re: [freenet-dev] Insane send Queue sizes.

2003-11-10 Thread Ed Tomlinson
On November 10, 2003 11:09 am, Christopher Hotchkiss wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > It doesn't seem that unreasonable, I continuously have amounts in the 35MBi > range waiting to be transfered. So if you just turned your node on, its to > be expected. Figure out how

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: New proposal for QRing and Load Balancing.

2003-11-10 Thread Tom Kaitchuck
On Monday 10 November 2003 10:49 am, Martin Stone Davis wrote: > Tom Kaitchuck wrote: > > Please read my message where I bitch about the doctor's office alalogy. > > Bottom line: We are NOT trying to prevent any from making as many > > requests as they like on the network. We ARE trying to prevent

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Ian Clarke wrote: making our users continue to suffer from the lack of an effective load balancing mechanism? Just so that we are all on the same page, we should clarify our definition of load-balancing. I believe there are two components to this definition - 1) query traffic versus data traffic n

Re: [freenet-dev] NGrouting questions.

2003-11-10 Thread Tom Kaitchuck
On Saturday 08 November 2003 06:38 am, Ian Clarke wrote: > Tom Kaitchuck wrote: > > OK, so I've finally gotten around to looking at the NGrouting source, and > > I have a few questions. Which are hopefully simple to answer. > > > > First in node/rt/StandardNodeEstimator.java on line 162 ish there i

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Ian Clarke
Brandon Low wrote: Thought: It would be easy for some asstard (me) to write a client that completely disregards these "wait" messages and therefore gets performance, and market it as 'Freenet-Xtreme' or some damned thing. We have already been through this a thousand times. If someone did do this

Re: [freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Brandon Low
Thought: It would be easy for some asstard (me) to write a client that completely disregards these "wait" messages and therefore gets performance, and market it as 'Freenet-Xtreme' or some damned thing. --B On Mon, 11/10/03 at 19:44:47 +, Ian Clarke wrote: > Ok, we forget about quotas, nice,

[freenet-dev] [Yet] another load-balancing idea

2003-11-10 Thread Ian Clarke
Ok, we forget about quotas, nice, but overcomplicated. We add a "don't send a request to me more often than X milliseconds" field to a few messages sent in response to requests. Two options about how to calculate X: 1) Empirical We calculate X to be ((60*60*1000) / M) / T 2) Experimental We sta

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: Rethinking load-balancing

2003-11-10 Thread Ian Clarke
Martin Stone Davis wrote: If so, doesn't this allow for a really easy DoS attack? Wouldn't a malicious node only have to use a small portion of bandwidth to exceed his allocation and halt queries for everyone else? Yes, but DoS attacks are already easy, so adding a new way to do them does't rea

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Ian Clarke
Martin Stone Davis wrote: But, shouldn't we *first* consider ideas which won't have these additional vulnerabilities? My "public quotas" idea (which is a modification of your quota idea) is an example. I think it might solve the problem, and I haven't heard any response to that idea. What was

[freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Martin Stone Davis
Ian Clarke wrote: Toad wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 06:04:44PM +, Ian Clarke wrote: What happens if somebody comes to us with a feature gift of an IPv6 transport and the infrastructure to use multiple transports? Unless we have this conversation now we'd probably accept it. Ok, so your ar

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: [freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/node/rt NGRoutingTable.java, 1.31, 1.32

2003-11-10 Thread Brandon Low
On Mon, 11/10/03 at 18:12:03 +, Toad wrote: > On Sun, Nov 09, 2003 at 12:33:48PM -0800, Brandon Low wrote: > > Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/node/rt > > In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv21891/freenet/src/freenet/node/rt > > > > Modified Files: > > NGRoutingTable.java

Re: [freenet-dev] Big performace change in 6323?

2003-11-10 Thread Brandon Low
Ahh, but look at your send queue... there isn't so much a performance increase as a decrease in QRing and a decrease in BW-per-transfer. --Brandon On Mon, 11/10/03 at 10:15:58 -0800, Salah Coronya wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > I've been running 6323 (compiled from

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Ian Clarke
Toad wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 06:04:44PM +, Ian Clarke wrote: What happens if somebody comes to us with a feature gift of an IPv6 transport and the infrastructure to use multiple transports? Unless we have this conversation now we'd probably accept it. Ok, so your argument is that Freenet

[freenet-dev] Big performace change in 6323?

2003-11-10 Thread Salah Coronya
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I've been running 6323 (compiled from CVS), for 15 1/2 hours and my node seems to be processing a lot more requests: Histogram of requested keys. This count has nothing to do with keys in your datastore Nov 10, 2003 12:07:57 PM keys: 198031 Histogram

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Toad
On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 06:04:44PM +, Ian Clarke wrote: > Toad wrote: > >>No, I'm a Java API newbie. I was just trying to say in a short-handed > >>fashion that someone could create some sort of executable to get around > >>the difficulty... then all the newbies like me could easily cheat. >

[freenet-dev] Re: [freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/node/rt NGRoutingTable.java, 1.31, 1.32

2003-11-10 Thread Toad
On Sun, Nov 09, 2003 at 12:33:48PM -0800, Brandon Low wrote: > Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/node/rt > In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv21891/freenet/src/freenet/node/rt > > Modified Files: > NGRoutingTable.java > Log Message: > Change how rt nodes are removed from the

[freenet-dev] More musings on NGR and load-balancing

2003-11-10 Thread Ian Clarke
The more I think about it, the more I think that putting NGR in-charge of load balancing is like putting the wolf in-charge of the sheep (or, perhaps a more apt analogy, putting a capitalist in-charge of the environment). The problem is that NGR relies on the notion that what is good for the i

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Ian Clarke
Toad wrote: No, I'm a Java API newbie. I was just trying to say in a short-handed fashion that someone could create some sort of executable to get around the difficulty... then all the newbies like me could easily cheat. Well, one point: We will have to prohibit IPv6 on the network, because IPv6

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Toad
On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 09:58:12AM -0800, Martin Stone Davis wrote: > Ian Clarke wrote: > > >Martin Stone Davis wrote: > > > >>>1) Given the difficulty of circumventing negative trust will users > >>>actually be bothered to do it? > >>> > >>It wouldn't be so difficult if someone else had already

[freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Martin Stone Davis
Ian Clarke wrote: Martin Stone Davis wrote: 1) Given the difficulty of circumventing negative trust will users actually be bothered to do it? It wouldn't be so difficult if someone else had already gone through the trouble of creating and distributing SuperFreenet.jar. How would SuperFreenet

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Ian Clarke
Toad wrote: Okay, who wants to run the central server? We can solve all freenet's performance problems by reimplementing Kazaa and ignoring the theoretical issues concerning anonymity. :) Thanks, very helpful suggestion :-) Ian. ___ Devl mailing list [EM

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Jim Dixon
> > While people navel-gaze over theoretical issues the network is barely > > working due to these load-balancing problems. I would rather have an > > imperfect solution now than a perfect solution later. > > Okay, who wants to run the central server? We can solve all freenet's > performance prob

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Toad
On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 05:29:29PM +, Ian Clarke wrote: > Martin Stone Davis wrote: > >>1) Given the difficulty of circumventing negative trust will users > >>actually be bothered to do it? > >> > >It wouldn't be so difficult if someone else had already gone through the > >trouble of creating

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Ian Clarke
Martin Stone Davis wrote: 1) Given the difficulty of circumventing negative trust will users actually be bothered to do it? It wouldn't be so difficult if someone else had already gone through the trouble of creating and distributing SuperFreenet.jar. How would SuperFreenet.jar manage to run a F

[freenet-dev] Re: Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Martin Stone Davis
Ian Clarke wrote: By now we are all painfully aware of the very correct observation that there can be no reliably enforceable negative trust on the Internet. Unfortunately, those that insist on repeating this fact over and over again fail to see that even though negative trust cannot be enforced

[freenet-dev] Negative trust

2003-11-10 Thread Ian Clarke
By now we are all painfully aware of the very correct observation that there can be no reliably enforceable negative trust on the Internet. Unfortunately, those that insist on repeating this fact over and over again fail to see that even though negative trust cannot be enforced against someone

[freenet-dev] Re: New proposal for QRing and Load Balancing.

2003-11-10 Thread Martin Stone Davis
Tom Kaitchuck wrote: On Monday 10 November 2003 05:03 am, Ken Corson wrote: Martin Stone Davis wrote: Tom Kaitchuck wrote: OK, Here is a possible solution that addresses most of the current issues we are currently seeing. Before anyone yells "It can't work! An operator could just create hundreds

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: New proposal for QRing and Load Balancing.

2003-11-10 Thread Tom Kaitchuck
On Monday 10 November 2003 05:03 am, Ken Corson wrote: > Martin Stone Davis wrote: > > Tom Kaitchuck wrote: > >> OK, Here is a possible solution that addresses most of the current > >> issues we are currently seeing. > > > > Before anyone yells "It can't work! An operator could just create > > hund

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: QueryReject patterns and NGRouting

2003-11-10 Thread Tom Kaitchuck
On Monday 10 November 2003 01:02 am, Ken Corson wrote: > Jon: > on a more serious note, how do you know the upstream node is in any > better condition to handle the request ? this seems like avoiding > our local responsibility... i suppose it is fair to say, if a node > doesn't reject a request, th

Re: [freenet-dev] Insane send Queue sizes.

2003-11-10 Thread Christopher Hotchkiss
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 It doesn't seem that unreasonable, I continuously have amounts in the 35MBi range waiting to be transfered. So if you just turned your node on, its to be expected. On Monday 10 November 2003 05:42 am, Ken Corson wrote: > Ed Tomlinson wrote: > > H

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: New proposal for QRing and Load Balancing.

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Martin Stone Davis wrote: Tom Kaitchuck wrote: OK, Here is a possible solution that addresses most of the current issues we are currently seeing. Before anyone yells "It can't work! An operator could just create hundreds of nodes!" I just want to mention that the easy way around that is to mak

Re: [freenet-dev] Insane send Queue sizes.

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Ed Tomlinson wrote: Hi, Am I the only one seeing insane send queue numbers? Here looking in the OCM (advanced mode/Open Connections) I see 272 connections transmitting with a queue of 130M! I have a 10K output limit... Ed, double check that you are reading the labels correctly - the positio

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: Rethinking load-balancing

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Martin Stone Davis wrote: Ian Clarke wrote: A node would therefore know, for all of its references, how many requests it is permitted to send (within a time-period) and NGR could even take account of that information in some way, although that is probably over-ambitious for an initial implementatio

Re: [freenet-dev] Rethinking load-balancing

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Ed Tomlinson wrote: On the otherhand, maybe we want to just eliminate QR and use something like this. Nodes have 100ms to reply with a Query Accepted otherwise the query is deemed to have been rejected. NG should be more that able to Ed, this is a feasible solution in certain environments. Howe

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/support FakeRandomAccessFilePool.java, NONE, 1.1 RealRandomAccessFilePool.java, NONE, 1.1 RandomAccessFilePool.java, 1.4, 1.5

2003-11-10 Thread Pascal
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/support In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv10578/support Modified Files: RandomAccessFilePool.java Added Files: FakeRandomAccessFilePool.java RealRandomAccessFilePool.java Log Message: Cleanup descriptions shown by --config setExp

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/node Node.java,1.244,1.245

2003-11-10 Thread Pascal
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/node In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv10578/node Modified Files: Node.java Log Message: Cleanup descriptions shown by --config setExpert on three options someone added without descriptions. Fix an NPE in the old RandomAccessFilePool Reim

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/config Config.java,1.12,1.13

2003-11-10 Thread Pascal
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/config In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv10578/config Modified Files: Config.java Log Message: Cleanup descriptions shown by --config setExpert on three options someone added without descriptions. Fix an NPE in the old RandomAccessFilePoo

[freenet-CVS] freenet/src/freenet/fs/dir NativeFSDirectory.java, 1.169, 1.170

2003-11-10 Thread Pascal
Update of /cvsroot/freenet/freenet/src/freenet/fs/dir In directory sc8-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv10578/fs/dir Modified Files: NativeFSDirectory.java Log Message: Cleanup descriptions shown by --config setExpert on three options someone added without descriptions. Fix an NPE in the old RandomAc

Re: [freenet-dev] QueryRejects: a vicious cycle ?

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Jusa Saari wrote: If I understood correctly, then currently, when a node queryrejects, the QR goes back in line to the node that originated the request, and that node will then send it to a different node. If this is true, then it has the potential to royally mess up the network. - no, you are conf

Re: [freenet-dev] Diagnostic values

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Andrew Rodland wrote: I'm running 6233, and just thought I'd report a few statistics of interest. First, searchFailedCount is down to between 2 and 3, rather than between 3 I had a real good day yesterday running 6322 here. Practically no QR! So I better take a picture while I can. Look at this. U

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: QueryReject patterns and NGRouting

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Toad wrote: On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 10:29:45PM -0500, Zlatin Balevsky wrote: Toad wrote: One radical solution: Remove the code to reject queries when the bandwidth limit is exceeded! which returns us in the state 5010-5018 where the node has accepted umpteen transfers, each going at snail speed.

Re: [freenet-dev] QueryReject patterns and NGRouting

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Jon Brock wrote: Another idea is to have a queue, and give priority to requests that are closer to one of the node's specialization areas. If all bandwidth is used up, but a new request comes in for a key that we have and is in our specialization, pause the most irrelevant transfer for a while and

Re: [freenet-dev] Re: QueryReject patterns and NGRouting

2003-11-10 Thread Ken Corson
Martin Stone Davis wrote: Let me use a biological analogy: Say your goal is to have a whole bunch of babies (don't ask my why you'd want this). Also, say you're a woman from another planet (say, Mars), and you can actually get pregnant while you're pregnant. However, you can't have more than a