Re: DConf 2013: Call for Submissions is now live!

2012-12-18 Thread David
Am 18.12.2012 07:07, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu: Hello everyone, We're very excited to announce the Call for Submissions for DConf 2013. It's barebones right now but it has all of the information needed to get everyone started! http://dconf.org Share away! We have firm dates, and

Re: DConf 2013: Call for Submissions is now live!

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 18 December 2012 06:07, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: Hello everyone, We're very excited to announce the Call for Submissions for DConf 2013. It's barebones right now but it has all of the information needed to get everyone started! http://dconf.org Share

Re: DConf 2013: Call for Submissions is now live!

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 1:31 AM, Iain Buclaw wrote: I suppose you would want me to talk gdc. :o) I suspect a session by you on gdc would generate a lot of interest. ditto for David on ldc.

Re: DConf 2013: Call for Submissions is now live!

2012-12-18 Thread John Colvin
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 06:07:42 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello everyone, We're very excited to announce the Call for Submissions for DConf 2013. It's barebones right now but it has all of the information needed to get everyone started! http://dconf.org Share away! We have

Re: DConf 2013: Call for Submissions is now live!

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 18 December 2012 06:07, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: We're very excited to announce the Call for Submissions for DConf 2013. It's barebones right now but it has all of the information needed to get everyone started! http://dconf.org D'oh, you've got the

Re: DConf 2013: Call for Submissions is now live!

2012-12-18 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 12/18/12 12:14 PM, Iain Buclaw wrote: On 18 December 2012 06:07, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org mailto:seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: We're very excited to announce the Call for Submissions for DConf 2013. It's barebones right now but it has all of the

Re: DConf 2013: Call for Submissions is now live!

2012-12-18 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 12/18/12 11:26 AM, John Colvin wrote: On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 06:07:42 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello everyone, We're very excited to announce the Call for Submissions for DConf 2013. It's barebones right now but it has all of the information needed to get everyone started!

Re: DConf 2013: Call for Submissions is now live!

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 18 December 2012 19:39, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: On 12/18/12 11:26 AM, John Colvin wrote: On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 06:07:42 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello everyone, We're very excited to announce the Call for Submissions for DConf 2013.

Re: DConf 2013: Call for Submissions is now live!

2012-12-18 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 12/18/12 2:46 PM, Iain Buclaw wrote: Now it looks like some bad html. :o) Refixed... Andrei

Re: DConf 2013: Call for Submissions is now live!

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 18 December 2012 15:09, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: On 12/18/2012 1:31 AM, Iain Buclaw wrote: I suppose you would want me to talk gdc. :o) I suspect a session by you on gdc would generate a lot of interest. ditto for David on ldc. Me and David had a chat and kinda

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Paulo Pinto
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 07:48:01 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2012-12-17 23:12, Walter Bright wrote: I have toyed with the idea many times, however, of having dmd support zip files. Zip files can contain an arbitrary file hierarchy, with individual files in compressed, encrypted, or

Re: explicit castable to bool for predicate restraints?

2012-12-18 Thread monarch_dodra
On Monday, 17 December 2012 at 23:40:19 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Monday, December 17, 2012 10:23:45 monarch_dodra wrote: Opinions? Just want to know how which direction to take my future developments. How about we just require that they all return bool? I see no reason to support

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Dmitry Olshansky
12/18/2012 2:23 AM, Walter Bright пишет: On 12/17/2012 2:08 PM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: I really loved the way Turbo Pascal units were made. I wish D go the same route. Object files would then be looked at as minimal and stupid variation of module where symbols are identified by mangling (not

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Dmitry Olshansky
12/18/2012 4:42 AM, Walter Bright пишет: On 12/17/2012 3:03 PM, deadalnix wrote: I know that. I not arguing against that. I'm arguing against the fact that this is a blocker. This is blocker in very few use cases in fact. I just look at the whole picture here. People needing that are the

Re: explicit castable to bool for predicate restraints?

2012-12-18 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:23:18 monarch_dodra wrote: On Monday, 17 December 2012 at 23:40:19 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Monday, December 17, 2012 10:23:45 monarch_dodra wrote: Opinions? Just want to know how which direction to take my future developments. How about we

Re: explicit castable to bool for predicate restraints?

2012-12-18 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 01:45:14 Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:23:18 monarch_dodra wrote: On Monday, 17 December 2012 at 23:40:19 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Monday, December 17, 2012 10:23:45 monarch_dodra wrote: Opinions? Just want to know how

Paid support

2012-12-18 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 12/16/2012 04:05 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Just one tidbit of information: I talked to Walter and we want to build into the process the ability to modify any particular release. (One possibility is to do so as part of paid support for large corporate users.) That means there needs to be

Re: Rust updates

2012-12-18 Thread foobar
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 07:36:26 UTC, Marcel wrote: Rust designers seems to love really short keywords, this is in my opinion a bit silly. On the other hand in D you have keywords like immutable that are rather long to type. So I prefer a mid way between those two. They aren't silly,

D's Greatest Bugbear

2012-12-18 Thread Don Clugston
Bearophile has just entered his 1000th bug report into Bugzilla. This is more than the three next most prolific contributers, combined. The top ten bug reporters are (courtesy of Deskzilla): 1002 Bearophile 315 Andrej Mitrovic 308 Don Clugston 282 David Simcha 193 Andrei Alexandrescu 185

Re: Timsort vs some others

2012-12-18 Thread Peter Alexander
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 06:52:27 UTC, Xinok wrote: On another note, I highly doubt that std::sort uses a median of medians algorithm, which would add much overhead and essentially double the number of comparisons required with little to no benefit. More likely, it simply chooses the

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread foobar
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 00:15:04 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 02:08:55AM +0400, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: [...] I suspect it's one of prime examples where UNIX philosophy of combining a bunch of simple (~ dumb) programs together in place of one more complex program was

Re: D's Greatest Bugbear

2012-12-18 Thread Simen Kjaeraas
On 2012-48-18 11:12, Don Clugston d...@nospam.com wrote: Bearophile has just entered his 1000th bug report into Bugzilla. This is more than the three next most prolific contributers, combined. The top ten bug reporters are (courtesy of Deskzilla): 1002 Bearophile 315 Andrej Mitrovic 308

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread foobar
On Monday, 17 December 2012 at 22:24:00 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/17/2012 2:08 PM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: I really loved the way Turbo Pascal units were made. I wish D go the same route. Object files would then be looked at as minimal and stupid variation of module where symbols are

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread foobar
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 00:48:40 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: Wow, I think that's exactly what we could use! It serves multiple optional use cases all at once! Was there a technical reason for you not getting around towards implementing, or just a lack of time? There always seemed

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
On 12/18/12, foobar f...@bar.com wrote: Besides, the other compilers merge in the same front-end code so they'll gain the same feature anyway. There's no gain in separating it out to rdmd. Adding more front-end features adds more work for maintainers of compilers which are based on the DMD

Re: Rust updates

2012-12-18 Thread bearophile
Marcel: Rust designers seems to love really short keywords, this is in my opinion a bit silly. On the other hand in D you have keywords like immutable that are rather long to type. So I prefer a mid way between those two. They aren't silly, they're consistent. We have int, char, auto, they

Re: Paid support

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 18 December 2012 10:27, Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net wrote: On 12/16/2012 04:05 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Just one tidbit of information: I talked to Walter and we want to build into the process the ability to modify any particular release. (One possibility

Re: D's Greatest Bugbear

2012-12-18 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
On 12/18/12, Don Clugston d...@nospam.com wrote: Bearophile has just entered his 1000th bug report into Bugzilla. I love his comment in the first report: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3813 quote This is my first bug report in this bug tracker. I will probably add here some more

Re: Paid support

2012-12-18 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 12/18/2012 01:40 PM, Iain Buclaw wrote: I only accept beer payments. :o) Bounties going on your tab at your pub(s) of choice? :-) Is there an optimal pints:work ratio that we should take into account?

D Frontend and shared code base (moving away from calling it DMD front-end).

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 12:36:31 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 12/18/12, foobar f...@bar.com wrote: Besides, the other compilers merge in the same front-end code so they'll gain the same feature anyway. There's no gain in separating it out to rdmd. Adding more front-end features

Re: Paid support

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 18 December 2012 13:23, Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net wrote: On 12/18/2012 01:40 PM, Iain Buclaw wrote: I only accept beer payments. :o) Bounties going on your tab at your pub(s) of choice? :-) Is there an optimal pints:work ratio that we should take into

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Paulo Pinto
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 11:43:18 UTC, foobar wrote: On Monday, 17 December 2012 at 22:24:00 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/17/2012 2:08 PM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: I really loved the way Turbo Pascal units were made. I wish D go the same route. Object files would then be looked at as

Re: D Frontend and shared code base (moving away from calling it DMD front-end).

2012-12-18 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
On 12/18/12, Iain Buclaw ibuc...@ubuntu.com wrote: I'd like to get the core developers of D Front-end to work with the people maintaining other such compilers (GDC, LDC, and any others that might come into existance) so that there can genuinely be a shared, portable source base for the D

Re: Paid support

2012-12-18 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 12/18/2012 02:43 PM, Iain Buclaw wrote: You mean, the Ballmer peak for blood alcohol concentration? Yes, experimental confirmation of this would be welcome. :-)

Re: D Frontend and shared code base (moving away from calling it DMD front-end).

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 18 December 2012 14:07, Andrej Mitrovic andrej.mitrov...@gmail.comwrote: On 12/18/12, Iain Buclaw ibuc...@ubuntu.com wrote: I'd like to get the core developers of D Front-end to work with the people maintaining other such compilers (GDC, LDC, and any others that might come into

Re: Paid support

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 18 December 2012 14:25, Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net wrote: On 12/18/2012 02:43 PM, Iain Buclaw wrote: You mean, the Ballmer peak for blood alcohol concentration? Yes, experimental confirmation of this would be welcome. :-) Get me a year's supply of whiskey,

Re: DMD under 64-bit Windows 7 HOWTO

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 5:32 AM, Gor Gyolchanyan wrote: Good day, fellow D developers. After spending much time figuring out how to make DMD work fluently under 64-bit Windows 7 I've realized that this is not a trivial task and lots of people might have trouble with this, so I've decided to post my

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 1:33 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: More then that - the end result is the same: to avoid carrying junk into an app you (or compiler) still have to put each function in its own section. That's what COMDATs are. Doing separate compilation I always (unless doing LTO or template

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 3:43 AM, foobar wrote: Honest question - If D already has all the semantic info in COMDAT sections, It doesn't. COMDATs are object file sections. They do not contain type info, for example. * provide a byte-code solution to support the portability case. e.g Java byte-code

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 1:43 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: Compared to doing computations on AST tries (and looking up every name in symbol table?), creating fake nodes when the result is computed etc? CTFE does not look up every (or any) name in the symbol table. I don't see any advantage to

Re: D Frontend and shared code base (moving away from calling it DMD front-end).

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 7:06 AM, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/18/2012 5:34 AM, Iain Buclaw wrote: I'll let you all brood over that though, and would welcome any feedback to get some sort of plan rolling (even if it's just a DIP). I'm open to pull requests which abstract away some of the differences.

Re: D Frontend and shared code base (moving away from calling it DMD front-end).

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 5:34 AM, Iain Buclaw wrote: I'll let you all brood over that though, and would welcome any feedback to get some sort of plan rolling (even if it's just a DIP). I'm open to pull requests which abstract away some of the differences.

Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
Now that UDA's have extended their support to @attribute https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dmd/commit/0814f9decfdbcef644c4e89b02b8be192ed2e900 Should we take this as an opportunity for other compiler maintainers to implement their own compiler-specific predefined attributes?

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 18 December 2012 15:19, Iain Buclaw ibuc...@ubuntu.com wrote: Potentially this can now be re-written as. void die() @noreturn { abort(); } By the way, this would be the first time that @noreturn has been brought up. http://forum.dlang.org/thread/i9p9li$282u$1...@digitalmars.com

Re: Timsort vs some others

2012-12-18 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 12/18/2012 07:52 AM, Xinok wrote: While Smoothsort may be mathematically sound, it simply doesn't translate well to computer hardware. It's a variant of heap sort which requires a great deal of random access, whereas Timsort is a variant of merge sort which is largely sequential and benefits

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 18 December 2012 15:24, Iain Buclaw ibuc...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 18 December 2012 15:19, Iain Buclaw ibuc...@ubuntu.com wrote: Potentially this can now be re-written as. void die() @noreturn { abort(); } By the way, this would be the first time that @noreturn has been brought

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread Adam D. Ruppe
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 15:19:58 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: Should we take this as an opportunity for other compiler maintainers to implement their own compiler-specific predefined attributes? I think it'd be great if we used magical full names, but otherwise it is the same as the

Re: Timsort vs some others

2012-12-18 Thread bearophile
Joseph Rushton Wakeling: ... but I would guess that given the O(1) memory requirements it probably scales much better to sorting really, really large data, no? Why? Bye, bearophile

Re: Timsort vs some others

2012-12-18 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 12/18/2012 04:30 PM, bearophile wrote: Why? Because if you have to allocate O(n) memory for another algorithm, that might either give you a memory hit that you can't take (less likely these days, to be fair), or simply take a large amount of time to allocate that degrades the

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 18 December 2012 15:29, Adam D. Ruppe destructiona...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 15:19:58 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: Should we take this as an opportunity for other compiler maintainers to implement their own compiler-specific predefined attributes? I think it'd be

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread bearophile
Iain Buclaw: Where GDC has the following to allow developers to mark functions with the backend attribute 'noreturn'. pragma(attribute, noreturn) void die() { abort(); } Potentially this can now be re-written as. void die() @noreturn { abort(); } Would you guys stand for such a

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread H. S. Teoh
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 06:55:34AM -0800, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/18/2012 3:43 AM, foobar wrote: Honest question - If D already has all the semantic info in COMDAT sections, It doesn't. COMDATs are object file sections. They do not contain type info, for example. * provide a

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread H. S. Teoh
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 07:01:28AM -0800, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/18/2012 1:43 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: Compared to doing computations on AST tries (and looking up every name in symbol table?), creating fake nodes when the result is computed etc? CTFE does not look up every (or any)

Re: Timsort vs some others

2012-12-18 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 12/18/12 5:50 AM, Peter Alexander wrote: On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 06:52:27 UTC, Xinok wrote: On another note, I highly doubt that std::sort uses a median of medians algorithm, which would add much overhead and essentially double the number of comparisons required with little to no

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 7:51 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote: An idea occurred to me while reading this. What if, when compiling a module, say, the compiler not only emits object code, but also information like which functions are implied to be strongly pure, weakly pure, @safe, etc., as well as some kind of symbol

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 7:48 AM, bearophile wrote: Is this name clashing acceptable? Yes.

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread Peter Alexander
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 15:19:58 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: Should we take this as an opportunity for other compiler maintainers to implement their own compiler-specific predefined attributes? Please, no! Suppose GDC implements @noreturn (or whatever other attribute) Later, LDC

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread Peter Alexander
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 16:43:53 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 15:19:58 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: Should we take this as an opportunity for other compiler maintainers to implement their own compiler-specific predefined attributes? Please, no! Before

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Dmitry Olshansky
12/18/2012 6:51 PM, Walter Bright пишет: On 12/18/2012 1:33 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: More then that - the end result is the same: to avoid carrying junk into an app you (or compiler) still have to put each function in its own section. That's what COMDATs are. Okay.. Doing separate

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 12/18/12 10:01 AM, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/18/2012 1:43 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: Compared to doing computations on AST tries (and looking up every name in symbol table?), creating fake nodes when the result is computed etc? CTFE does not look up every (or any) name in the symbol

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 18 December 2012 16:43, Peter Alexander peter.alexander...@gmail.comwrote: On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 15:19:58 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: Should we take this as an opportunity for other compiler maintainers to implement their own compiler-specific predefined attributes? Please, no!

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 18 December 2012 16:58, Iain Buclaw ibuc...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 18 December 2012 16:43, Peter Alexander peter.alexander...@gmail.comwrote: On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 15:19:58 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: Should we take this as an opportunity for other compiler maintainers to implement

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Dmitry Olshansky
12/18/2012 7:01 PM, Walter Bright пишет: On 12/18/2012 1:43 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: Compared to doing computations on AST tries (and looking up every name in symbol table?), creating fake nodes when the result is computed etc? CTFE does not look up every (or any) name in the symbol table.

Re: D's Greatest Bugbear

2012-12-18 Thread Philippe Sigaud
I remember a time, years ago (2008?), when he would pester everyone here and had a reputation for finding bugs and *never reporting them*. People used to tssk-tssk him on this. Now, wow :) Congratulations, bearophile! Now, the real question is, what will be bug #10_000? We should let him have

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 8:48 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: After dropping debug info I can't yet make heads or tails of what's in the exe yet but it _seems_ to not include all of the unused code. Gotta investigate on a smaller sample. Generate a linker .map file (-map to dmd). That'll tell you what's in

Re: D's Greatest Bugbear

2012-12-18 Thread Max Samukha
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 10:48:07 UTC, Don Clugston wrote: Congratulations, Bugbear! Congrats, bearophile! (What a loser I am...)

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 8:54 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 12/18/12 10:01 AM, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/18/2012 1:43 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: Compared to doing computations on AST tries (and looking up every name in symbol table?), creating fake nodes when the result is computed etc? CTFE does

UDA tuple flattening

2012-12-18 Thread jerro
I noticed that this doesn't work with the latest DMD from github: import std.typetuple; struct Foo{} struct Bar{} alias TypeTuple!(Foo, Bar) FooBar; @FooBar void foo(){} pragma(msg, __traits(getAttributes, foo)); When trying to compile this, the compiler prints: a.d(6): Error: cannot form

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 8:57 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: But adequate bytecode designed for interpreters (see e.g. Lua) are designed for faster execution. The way CTFE is done now* is a polymorphic call per AST-node that does a lot of analysis that could be decided once and stored in ... *ehm* ... IR.

Re: Rust updates

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 4:35 AM, bearophile wrote: in general the naming choice of D is better than Rust. A red letter day for D! Bearophile says that D does something better than some other language! :-)

Re: UDA: getAttributes does not play well with topleof

2012-12-18 Thread d coder
Greetings I thought I would be able to use allMembers/getMembers traits to access the attributes of all the members of a class. But that fails me if some members of the class are private. Consider the code pasted below -- I get en error: B.d(5): Error: class A.Foo member bar is not accessible

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread H. S. Teoh
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 08:12:51AM -0800, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/18/2012 7:51 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote: An idea occurred to me while reading this. What if, when compiling a module, say, the compiler not only emits object code, but also information like which functions are implied to be

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread Peter Alexander
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 16:58:32 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: Provide a situation where @noreturn attribute would mean anything other than telling the compiler to assume that the function cannot return, and I might please you on *that* particular attribute. On *that* particular attribute,

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread H. S. Teoh
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 09:30:40AM -0800, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/18/2012 8:57 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: [...] Another point is that pointer chasing data-structures is not a recipe for fast repeated execution. To provide an analogy: executing calculation recursively on AST tree of

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 9:42 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote: I was thinking more along the lines of things like fully automatic purity, safety, exception inference. For example, every function body eventually has to be processed by the compiler, so if a particular function is inferred to throw exception X, for

Re: UDA tuple flattening

2012-12-18 Thread Max Samukha
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 17:31:49 UTC, jerro wrote: I noticed that this doesn't work with the latest DMD from github: import std.typetuple; struct Foo{} struct Bar{} alias TypeTuple!(Foo, Bar) FooBar; @FooBar void foo(){} pragma(msg, __traits(getAttributes, foo)); When trying to

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 9:49 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote: Is it too late to change CTFE to work via native code? No, because doing so involves zero language changes. It is purely a quality-of-implementation issue. Besides the effort required to rework the existing code (and perhaps the cross-compiling

Javascript bytecode

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
An interesting datapoint in regards to bytecode is Javascript. Note that Javascript is not distributed in bytecode form. There is no Javascript VM. It is distributed as source code. Sometimes, that source code is compressed and obfuscated, nevertheless it is still source code. How the end

Re: Javascript bytecode

2012-12-18 Thread Adam D. Ruppe
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 18:11:37 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: I suspect there are other languages that do so, too. Including (a buggy, incomplete subset of) D! https://github.com/adamdruppe/dmd/tree/dtojs

Re: Javascript bytecode

2012-12-18 Thread Max Samukha
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 18:11:37 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: An interesting datapoint in regards to bytecode is Javascript. Note that Javascript is not distributed in bytecode form. There is no Javascript VM. It is distributed as source code. Sometimes, that source code is compressed and

Re: Javascript bytecode

2012-12-18 Thread Peter Alexander
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 18:11:37 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: Javascript proves that bytecode is not required for write once, run everywhere, which was one of the pitches for bytecode. What is required for w.o.r.e. is a specification for the source code that precludes undefined and

Re: Javascript bytecode

2012-12-18 Thread Max Samukha
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 18:22:40 UTC, Max Samukha wrote: Actually, they call JavaScript an IL for the next ten years. s/an/the

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread deadalnix
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 16:47:37 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 16:43:53 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 15:19:58 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: Should we take this as an opportunity for other compiler maintainers to implement their own

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread jerro
On *that* particular attribute, I will accept that there isn't much you could do differently from a theoretical standardised version. The problem is, as soon as you add one compiler specific attribute, it will be used as a precedence for adding others. You could just name compiler specific

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread H. S. Teoh
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 09:55:57AM -0800, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/18/2012 9:42 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote: I was thinking more along the lines of things like fully automatic purity, safety, exception inference. For example, every function body eventually has to be processed by the compiler, so if

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread Peter Alexander
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 19:08:06 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 16:47:37 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 16:43:53 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 15:19:58 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: Should we take this as an

Re: Javascript bytecode

2012-12-18 Thread Walter Bright
On 12/18/2012 10:29 AM, Peter Alexander wrote: On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 18:11:37 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: Javascript proves that bytecode is not required for write once, run everywhere, which was one of the pitches for bytecode. What is required for w.o.r.e. is a specification for the

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread H. S. Teoh
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 10:06:43AM -0800, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/18/2012 9:49 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote: Is it too late to change CTFE to work via native code? No, because doing so involves zero language changes. It is purely a quality-of-implementation issue. Well, that much is obvious; I

Re: Javascript bytecode

2012-12-18 Thread H. S. Teoh
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 10:11:37AM -0800, Walter Bright wrote: An interesting datapoint in regards to bytecode is Javascript. Note that Javascript is not distributed in bytecode form. There is no Javascript VM. It is distributed as source code. Sometimes, that source code is compressed and

Re: Javascript bytecode

2012-12-18 Thread DypthroposTheImposter
There is Emscripten which compiles LLVM to javascript, so you could probably get D into JS like that also https://github.com/kripken/emscripten

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Dmitry Olshansky
12/18/2012 9:30 PM, Walter Bright пишет: On 12/18/2012 8:57 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: But adequate bytecode designed for interpreters (see e.g. Lua) are designed for faster execution. The way CTFE is done now* is a polymorphic call per AST-node that does a lot of analysis that could be

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Jacob Carlborg
On 2012-12-18 17:48, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: I'm using objconv by Agner Fog as I haven't got dumpobj (guess I'll buy it if need be). dumpobj is included in the DMD release, at least on Mac OS X. -- /Jacob Carlborg

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Dmitry Olshansky
12/19/2012 12:01 AM, Jacob Carlborg пишет: On 2012-12-18 17:48, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: I'm using objconv by Agner Fog as I haven't got dumpobj (guess I'll buy it if need be). dumpobj is included in the DMD release, at least on Mac OS X. And linux has it. Guess Windows sucks ... -- Dmitry

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread Johannes Pfau
Am Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:06:16 +0100 schrieb jerro a...@a.com: You could also define them in compiler specific modules as has already been discussed in this thread, but then code that used them without full names (including the module name) would break if an attribute with the same name was

Re: D's Greatest Bugbear

2012-12-18 Thread SomeDude
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 12:42:23 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 12/18/12, Don Clugston d...@nospam.com wrote: Bearophile has just entered his 1000th bug report into Bugzilla. I love his comment in the first report: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3813 quote This is my

Re: Javascript bytecode

2012-12-18 Thread Jacob Carlborg
On 2012-12-18 19:11, Walter Bright wrote: Note also that Typescript compiles to Javascript. I suspect there are other languages that do so, too. CoffeeScript and Dart to mention two other languages that compile to JavaScript. -- /Jacob Carlborg

Re: Javascript bytecode

2012-12-18 Thread deadalnix
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 18:11:37 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: An interesting datapoint in regards to bytecode is Javascript. Note that Javascript is not distributed in bytecode form. There is no Javascript VM. It is distributed as source code. Sometimes, that source code is compressed and

Re: explicit castable to bool for predicate restraints?

2012-12-18 Thread monarch_dodra
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 10:08:12 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: We're probably stuck with std.algorithm allowing implict conversions to bool due to the fact that a fair bit of it has accepted that for a while, but accepting anything which explictly casts to bool would be tantamount to

Re: Compilation strategy

2012-12-18 Thread Timon Gehr
On 12/18/2012 08:26 PM, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 10:06:43AM -0800, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/18/2012 9:49 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote: Is it too late to change CTFE to work via native code? No, because doing so involves zero language changes. It is purely a

Re: Should compilers take advantage (abuse) of the new UDA syntax that has been accepted?

2012-12-18 Thread deadalnix
On Tuesday, 18 December 2012 at 19:23:18 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: I think this should be advertised that such a feature is in some GDC's specific module, and that it can clash with any library symbol at any time, as it is not a standardized feature of the language. Doesn't matter

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