Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Peter Baumann wrote: > Hi Jonathan, > > while OSGeo and rasdaman share the strive for quality we come from different > approaches: OSGeo believes in the power of committees and strong regulation > whereas rasdaman has a culture of

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

On 11 May 2016 at 10:56, Peter Baumann wrote: > Hi Jonathan, > > while OSGeo and rasdaman share the strive for quality we come from different > approaches: OSGeo believes in the power of committees and strong regulation > whereas rasdaman has a culture of

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

, one where climate chaos is a > daily experience. We are already witness to the resultant mass migrations > and accompanying specie extinctions, estimated at 200 per day and rising. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> At what poin

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

en Rouault; incuba...@lists.osgeo.org Cc: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo? Hi Cameron, I tried very much to make the situation transparent. Maybe the notion of Principal Investigator helps her

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

eo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo? Hi Cameron, I tried very much to make the situation transparent. Maybe the notion of Principal Investigator helps here (cf Wikipedia - although biased towards medical science): A princi

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

new world, one where climate chaos is a daily >>>>>> experience. We are already witness to the resultant mass migrations and >>>>>> accompanying specie extinctions, estimated at 200 per day and rising. >>>>>> >>>>>> At what poin

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

t;>>> >>>>> At what point do we embrace our collective need to work together, >>>>> encouraging creativity and adjusting adaptability for a world that >>>>> celebrates our finite resources. This will take a ^cornucopia^ of open >

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

gardless of the path used to grow them. >>>> >>>> Might OSGEO be more adept at encouraging and supporting open source >>>> geospatial solutions, however they exist? >>>> >>>> A smart quote goes here, but I am at a loss for which one. Ma

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

or better yet, a woman, such as Eleanor >>> Roosevelt “The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their >>> dreams.” To which I say, without a beautiful future, we shall have none. >>> Open OSGeo Open. . . >>> >>> Whether for naïveté or

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

s not there >> at all. >> >> -Patrick >> >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Peter >> Baumann >> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 3:25 AM >> To: Cameron Shorter; Even Rouault; incuba...@lists.osgeo.org >> Cc: OSGeo

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

On 05/05/16 12:24, Peter Baumann wrote: OSGeo is entering new domains with rasdaman, which is: scientific research projects. Like some other communities, these have existed long before OSGeo, and have their own ethics, procedures, and rules. It is unlikely that science will change and give up

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

ïveté or ignorance, much I do not understand. Humble > apologies for that. Regardless, the future awaits our better nature or > she’s not there at all. > > > > -Patrick > > > > From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of > Peter Baumann &g

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

t there > at all. > > -Patrick > > From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Peter > Baumann > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 3:25 AM > To: Cameron Shorter; Even Rouault; incuba...@lists.osgeo.org > Cc: OSGeo Discussions > Subject: Re:

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo? Hi Cameron, I tried very much to make the situation transparent. Maybe the notion of Principal Investigator helps here (cf Wikipedia - although biased towards medic

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Wikipedia has a page full of Open Source Benevolent Dictators For Life (BDFL) for very successful projects (Linux, Ruby, Python, Blender, Django, OpenBSD, Drupal, WordPress, Perl) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_Dictator_for_Life I'm not sure how many have foundational approval, or

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

I have been quietly following this and find validity in both points. However, one thing is puzzling me. OSGeo has other projects that have come from the research environment (Mapserver and Grass come to mind but there are probably more). What is different about rasdaman? On May 5, 2016 05:25,

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Hi Peter, Let me ask you: what do you hope to gain by getting an OSGeo mark? And, whatever that is, is that worth all this negotiation? Personally, I use a product if it is good for me, not because it has a certain blessing on it. There are many non-OSGeo products I use, and there are many

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

This is not a new conversation; it has been the central work of incubation - which is proving unsuccessful in this case. It was raised some time ago - I remember heartfelt conversations in foss4g 2013, working on governance model is part of what osgeo incubation is about (it is a bit of the

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Ok, We have reached an impass on progressing Rasdaman incubation. * Peter has made it clear that he intends to personally remain in control of Rasdaman. * We have an incubation criteria which suggests (without specifically mandating) shared control through a Project Management Committee. [1] *

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Hi Cameron, I tried very much to make the situation transparent. Maybe the notion of Principal Investigator helps here (cf Wikipedia - although biased towards medical science): /A //*principal investigator*//(//*PI*//) is the holder of an independent grant administered by a university and the

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Hi Peter, Could you please answer Even and Johan's question. I'm happy to use another term for the governance model. "Does one person have ultimate control over the project? Or does ultimate control lie with a committee, possibly with a tie breaker vote designated to one person or one role (eg

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

> > I tend to agree with Patrick's position. I think what matters in the end is > the license the code is released, as long as forking is allowed, whether is > a committee or a single person taking decisions about developing may lead or > may not to a successful project according to several

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Evan wrote: "Actually reading http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/Governance it seems the sentence that cause trouble is "Should such consent exceptionally not be reached then Peter Baumann has a casting vote." Does that mean that in case there's a tie in voting (which cannot happen with a 3 member PSC

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Le mercredi 04 mai 2016 18:34:27, Peter Baumann a écrit : > HI Cameron, > > first, as this word has been used too often now, the current model has > nothing at all to do with dictatorship. What is the suggested opposite, > BTW - "dictatorship of majorities"? ;-) Actually reading

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

>From the discussion so far it sounds as all that is needed is for Rasdaman to designate it's collection of committers as a PSC and carry on with out all this fuss. There is no restriction on how many people you have on your PSC if you can manage them. And it is worth noting that the current PSCs

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

HI Cameron, first, as this word has been used too often now, the current model has nothing at all to do with dictatorship. What is the suggested opposite, BTW - "dictatorship of majorities"? ;-) If it would at least be called a "technocracy", that I could accept: rasdaman has always been driven

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Hi Peter, Are you open to considering relinquishing rasdaman's current "benevolent dictator" governance model? Many (most?) OSGeo projects that I'm aware of are managed similarly to your description below. There is usually a sage or two amongst the community, typically someone who founded

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Hello Johan, Please see: http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2016-May/003012.html Bruce > First of all, I'm a bit disappointed that this issue is only raised > now, when the final vote for graduating is taking place. For the > future I think it should be clearer for projects what

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Hello everyone, First of all, I'm a bit disappointed that this issue is only raised now, when the final vote for graduating is taking place. For the future I think it should be clearer for projects what rules have to be obliged much earlier. Just this week, in another conversation I mentioned

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

interesting discussion, with valuable thoughts! True, micro management is not the case in rasdaman - on the contrary, we are most happy about helping hands, and are constantly thinking about opportunities for process improvements. Personally, I am so much overloaded that I enjoy handing over

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Cameron Shorter wrote: > OSGeo discuss, OSGeo incubation, OSGeo board, > > I'm hoping the greater OSGeo community will consider and comment on this > question: > > Should OSGeo accept a "benevolent dictator" [1] governance model for >

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

I found this nice description of the benevolent dictator governance: http://oss-watch.ac.uk/resources/benevolentdictatorgovernancemodel It's a nice read, but I want to highlight this part: > In many ways, the role of the benevolent dictator is less about > dictatorship and more about diplomacy.

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Since this particular topic is a hard discussion (with a projects status in our community on the line) I do not wish to replay it for an audience. OSGeo as an organization is responsible for fostering projects; working through these issues needs to be supportive. In incubation we try and tackle

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Hi, On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 9:48 PM, Hogan, Patrick (ARC-PX) < patrick.ho...@nasa.gov> wrote: > Jody, > > > > Despite the infinite respect I have for your opinion and the Boundless > organization, sincerely, I couldn’t more heartily disagree. At least I > think I am disagreeing. > > > > Open

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Before commenting further I suggest to put the paragraph that is being discussed on top of the email - benevolent dictator sounds much worse than what is being proposed. The Governance model includes a statement: "In all issues, the PSC strives to achieve unanimous consent based on a free,

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

On 01/05/16 13:29, Jody Garnett wrote: This is kind of a larger topic than just the incubation committee, but no I do not believe we should. It is a defining characteristic of our foundation to not place many restrictions on our projects - but demand that the projects be inclusive and open to

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

Hi Jody and others, Apart from the discussion here at this list, this might be a nice subject for a "topic talk" (a discussion on a specific theme) in August at FOSS4G in Bonn. If annybody is willing to take the lead in this, we (=the Bonn LOC) can see if we can fit this in the program)

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

A PSC is not required for any OSGeo project (even a graduated project) - being inclusive is. The GeoNode project is an example in incubation that forms a leadership team based on recent committers as I understand it. The benevolent dictator model does not meet this inclusive requirement, Cameron

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

ource solutions it can get, from copyleft > to benevolent dictator. > > -Patrick > > > > *From:* Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] *On Behalf Of *Jody > Garnett > *Sent:* Sunday, May 1, 2016 4:30 AM > *To:* Cameron Shorter > *Cc:* OSGeo Discussions; inc

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 1:29 PM, Jody Garnett wrote: > This is kind of a larger topic than just the incubation committee, but no > I do not believe we should. It is a defining characteristic of our > foundation to not place many restrictions on our projects - but demand

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Jody Garnett Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 4:30 AM To: Cameron Shorter Cc: OSGeo Discussions; incuba...@lists.osgeo.org Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo? This is kind of a larger topic

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

This is kind of a larger topic than just the incubation committee, but no I do not believe we should. It is a defining characteristic of our foundation to not place many restrictions on our projects - but demand that the projects be inclusive and open to collaboration. I do not believe that the

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?

OSGeo discuss, OSGeo incubation, OSGeo board, I'm hoping the greater OSGeo community will consider and comment on this question: Should OSGeo accept a "benevolent dictator" [1] governance model for incubating projects? -0 from me, Cameron Shorter. Background: * As part of incubation,