Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC marketing on NPR

2023-11-26 Thread Murray S. Kucherawy
On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 9:19 AM Douglas Foster < dougfoster.emailstanda...@gmail.com> wrote: > The gap between what is being attempted and what is needed is a huge > personal disappointment. > You have made your disappointment plain more times than I can remember. It's on the record each of those

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC marketing on NPR

2023-11-24 Thread Seth Blank
Please move on from this thread, it’s done now. Seth, as Chair -mobile On Fri, Nov 24, 2023 at 09:53 Douglas Foster < dougfoster.emailstanda...@gmail.com> wrote: > The real evidence of failure is the assumption, built into this document, > that allowing mailing list paticipation is as easy as

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC marketing on NPR

2023-11-24 Thread Douglas Foster
The real evidence of failure is the assumption, built into this document, that allowing mailing list paticipation is as easy as changing your policy to None. We expect evaluators to treat Fail with None the same as Pass. This says that a lot of malice is also being treated the same as Pass. If o

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC marketing on NPR

2023-11-24 Thread Douglas Foster
If this implied solution was working, we would not have a mailing list problem 10 years running. On Thu, Nov 23, 2023, 10:41 AM Dotzero wrote: > > > On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 10:19 AM Douglas Foster < > dougfoster.emailstanda...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The gap between what is being attempted and

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC marketing on NPR

2023-11-24 Thread Alessandro Vesely
On Thu 23/Nov/2023 16:41:11 +0100 Dotzero wrote: On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 10:19 AM Douglas Foster wrote: The gap between what is being attempted and what is needed is a huge personal disappointment. [...] This is from a real-world conversation with a product support tech: Me: I cannot use y

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC marketing on NPR

2023-11-23 Thread Dotzero
On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 10:19 AM Douglas Foster < dougfoster.emailstanda...@gmail.com> wrote: > The gap between what is being attempted and what is needed is a huge > personal disappointment. > > The DMARC goal should be to block malicious impersonation without blocking > wanted messages, where "w

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC marketing on NPR

2023-11-23 Thread Douglas Foster
The gap between what is being attempted and what is needed is a huge personal disappointment. The DMARC goal should be to block malicious impersonation without blocking wanted messages, where "wanted" is in the eyes of the evaluator and his end user.That puts the onus on the evaluator. RFC 7

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC marketing on NPR

2023-11-23 Thread Alessandro Vesely
On Wed 22/Nov/2023 23:58:26 +0100 Seth Blank wrote: Is there a point to this thread, that affects the text in the DMARCbis document under charter criteria? The point I made —death sentence to mailing lists— affects the text as an exhortation to /not/ change Section 8.6. For Doug's point, th

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC marketing on NPR

2023-11-22 Thread Seth Blank
Is there a point to this thread, that affects the text in the DMARCbis document under charter criteria? Seth, as Chair -mobile On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 07:13 Douglas Foster < dougfoster.emailstanda...@gmail.com> wrote: > RFC 7489 and DMARCbis are written as algorithms without exception > condit

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC marketing on NPR

2023-11-22 Thread Douglas Foster
RFC 7489 and DMARCbis are written as algorithms without exception conditions. That silence leads product developers and mail administrators to conclude that the algorithm can be implemented without allowing for exceptions. Why would we expect a different result? Withheld information can deceive

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC marketing on NPR

2023-11-22 Thread Alessandro Vesely
On Wed 22/Nov/2023 00:51:24 +0100 Jim Fenton wrote: I see that the DMARC marketing machine is hard at work. There was an item on NPR (National Public Radio) “All Things Considered” this afternoon heavily promoting DMARC: https://www-cf.npr.org/2023/11/21/1214529474/how-to-keep-an-eye-out-for-c

[dmarc-ietf] DMARC marketing on NPR

2023-11-21 Thread Jim Fenton
I see that the DMARC marketing machine is hard at work. There was an item on NPR (National Public Radio) “All Things Considered” this afternoon heavily promoting DMARC: https://www-cf.npr.org/2023/11/21/1214529474/how-to-keep-an-eye-out-for-cyber-scams-during-this-holiday-shopping-season I have