Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Schanzenbach, Martin
> On 24. Aug 2022, at 22:13, Schanzenbach, Martin > wrote: > > Signed PGP part > > >> On 24. Aug 2022, at 20:22, Joe Abley wrote: >> >> On Aug 24, 2022, at 11:27, Schanzenbach, Martin >> wrote: >> >>> We (I) learned that this is a good approach after conversations with our >>>

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Schanzenbach, Martin
> On 24. Aug 2022, at 20:22, Joe Abley wrote: > > On Aug 24, 2022, at 11:27, Schanzenbach, Martin > wrote: > >> We (I) learned that this is a good approach after conversations with our >> reviewers in particular since it is very difficult to distinguish what >> "case" actually is with

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Joe Abley
On Aug 24, 2022, at 11:27, Schanzenbach, Martin wrote: > We (I) learned that this is a good approach after conversations with our > reviewers in particular since it is very difficult to distinguish what "case" > actually is with respect to i18n. Fortunately (at least as far as understanding

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Schanzenbach, Martin
> On 24. Aug 2022, at 18:46, Paul Wouters wrote: > > On Aug 24, 2022, at 11:27, Schanzenbach, Martin > wrote: >> >> GNS, as in the protocol, does *not* consider "Example.gns.Alt" and >> "Example.gns.alt" to be the same name. > > FYI, on many mobile phones, words at the start are

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Paul Wouters
On Aug 24, 2022, at 11:27, Schanzenbach, Martin wrote: > > GNS, as in the protocol, does *not* consider "Example.gns.Alt" and > "Example.gns.alt" to be the same name. FYI, on many mobile phones, words at the start are automatically capitalized, so you are going to experience many user

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Timothy Mcsweeney
> On 08/24/2022 11:27 AM EDT Schanzenbach, Martin > wrote: > If the application decides that the user expectation is that "example.ch.Alt" > IS "example.ch.alt", then the application is invited to make the user happy > accordingly. I see. I understand now. You don't need the IETF for

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Schanzenbach, Martin
Hi, > On 24. Aug 2022, at 16:28, Peter Thomassen wrote: > > Hi Joe, > > On 8/24/22 10:13, Joe Abley wrote: >> So the question is not whether to allow mixed capitalisation; the question >> is why we would intentionally change a fundamental expectation of domain >> names to accommodate names

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Peter Thomassen
Hi Joe, On 8/24/22 10:13, Joe Abley wrote: So the question is not whether to allow mixed capitalisation; the question is why we would intentionally change a fundamental expectation of domain names to accommodate names and resolution protocols that we largely don't have any requirements for

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Eliot Lear
On 24.08.22 16:13, Joe Abley wrote: Hi Peter, So the question is not whether to allow mixed capitalisation; the question is why we would intentionally change a fundamental expectation of domain names to accommodate names and resolution protocols that we largely don't have any requirements

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Joe Abley
On Aug 24, 2022, at 10:13, Joe Abley wrote: > That's a large installed base of assumptions; to a close approximately it's > all users of the internet and all software that makes use of it. Approximation, not approximately. My phone and I have different ideas about language, soapy about

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Joe Abley
Hi Peter, On Aug 24, 2022, at 09:40, Peter Thomassen wrote: > On 8/23/22 18:37, Joe Abley wrote: >> So your suggestion is that this document should specify behaviour for QNAMEs >> whose final label is exactly "alt" but that names with different >> capitalisation should be leaked to the DNS? >

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Peter Thomassen
On 8/23/22 18:37, Joe Abley wrote: On Aug 23, 2022, at 18:07, Peter Thomassen wrote: Unaware applications: yes, perhaps mixed; but as they're unaware, they'll ignore the carve-out regardless of case Aware applications: ... will produce only what's compliant. And the question here is

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-23 Thread George Michaelson
On Wed, 24 Aug 2022, 12:23 pm John Levine, wrote: > > I don't see any reason why that is our problem. > > On my system at least, the only DNS queries that go through nsswitch > are ones starting from calls like getaddrinfo() or gethostbyname(). If > you're interested in MX or SRV or HTTPS or

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-23 Thread John Levine
It appears that George Michaelson said: >> >> > 4) Say in English prose that since the DNS ignores ASCII case >> > distinctions, all versions of .alt are excluded from the DNS, but it's >> > up to each non-DNS thing to choose which if any of the versions it >> > uses and it how it interprets

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-23 Thread George Michaelson
On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 11:45 AM Paul Hoffman wrote: > > On Aug 23, 2022, at 5:52 PM, John Levine wrote: > > > > It appears that Paul Hoffman said: > > > 4) Say in English prose that since the DNS ignores ASCII case > > distinctions, all versions of .alt are excluded from the DNS, but it's > >

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-23 Thread Paul Hoffman
On Aug 23, 2022, at 5:52 PM, John Levine wrote: > > It appears that Paul Hoffman said: This document uses ".alt" for the pseudo-TLD in the presentation format for the DNS, corresponding to a 0x03616c7400 suffix in DNS wire format. The presentation and on-the-wire

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-23 Thread John Levine
It appears that Paul Hoffman said: >>> This document uses ".alt" for the pseudo-TLD in the presentation >>> format for the DNS, corresponding to a 0x03616c7400 suffix in DNS >>> wire format. The presentation and on-the-wire formats for non-DNS >>> protocols might be different.

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-23 Thread Joe Abley
On Aug 23, 2022, at 18:07, Peter Thomassen wrote: > Unaware applications: yes, perhaps mixed; but as they're unaware, they'll > ignore the carve-out regardless of case > > Aware applications: ... will produce only what's compliant. And the question > here is what we want to define as

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-23 Thread Peter Thomassen
On 8/23/22 17:43, Paul Hoffman wrote: On Aug 23, 2022, at 2:00 PM, Joe Abley wrote: I may have missed something (I have been trying very hard) but it seems a little weird for the wire format for a definitively non-existent domain name to be specified at all, to be honest; I'm not sure

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-23 Thread Paul Hoffman
On Aug 23, 2022, at 2:00 PM, Joe Abley wrote: > > On Aug 23, 2022, at 16:03, Schanzenbach, Martin > wrote: > >> " >> >> This document uses ".alt" for the pseudo-TLD in the presentation >> format for the DNS, corresponding to a 0x03616c7400 suffix in DNS >> wire format. The