RE: Democratizing the Senate (II)

Alex wrote in part- I came up with a proposal that conforms much more easily to Article V (no state shall lose its equal suffrage in the Senate without its consent). It isn't an ideal democratic method, but it is a step in the right direction. --- D- How about ZERO Senators per gerrymander Sta

[EM] Re: Strong FBC

Forest wrote in part- Suppose that a group of children are trying to decide whether to play baseball, kickball, football, basketball, jumprope, etc. They are smart enough to use Paper Scissors Rock to make these kinds of decisions even when there is a majority in favor of one course of action, b

Re: Modeling elections

Richard wrote in part- In this case Approval got a lot better. Approval seems to be particularly sensitive to candidate distribution in your model, and I observed this in my sims as well. Here's what happens: When candidates are clustered in some local region of issue space, there is a tendency o

RE: Strong FBC

Alex wrote in part- Maybe all I've done is make life more complicated without getting any closer to an answer, but it may be that by putting an intermediate stage between your sincere input and insincere strategy strong FBC can be satisfied. Something to think about... --- D- What will John/M

RE: 05/02/02 - The So Called Compromise Candidate:

Donald in his standard junk style of postings wrote in part- There seems to be a mind set among a few on this list that if there is no majority on the first count then the winner should be the third or lower candidate, the so called `compromise candidate'. --- D- The ever clueless Donald does no

Re: Strong FBC

Alex wrote- I agree with your objections. I realize that the computer can only go by the (possibly) insincere input of the users. However, as Mike phrased his original post he said that the sincere CW is found when voters have complete info and act to optimize their outcomes. Since burying

[EM] Gerrymander Cases 2001- 2002

http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/departments/scr/redist/redsum2000/redsum2000 .htm has the various gerrymander cases in the courts after the 2000 Census. The cases are basically a giant ANTI-Democracy fraud due to the use of single member gerrymander districts and plurality nominations and el

[EM] Ventura closes governor's mansion

Gov. V. and his 37 percent mighty victory was brought up recently -- One real world result of such victory --- http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/05/01/governor.smansion.ap/index.html Ventura closes governor's mansion *** Gov. Jesse Ventura closed the mansion and laid off its staff Tuesday,

[EM] Elections 101 Basics

In view of the somewhat amazing stuff in recent postings by newer folks I note some Elections 101 stuff. 3 or more Choices NO first choice majority = either NO majority exists or there is a divided majority. The minority (1 or more subparts) will likely strategize in WHATEVER method is being

[EM] Short P.R. Language 30 April 2002

Short P.R. Language 30 April 2002 Sec. A. (a) All Election areas shall exist at least [36] weeks before the Election. (b) As nearly as possible, each Representative district shall have an equal number of Electors at the last regular Election (plus or minus [1] percent), have 1 or more cities a

[EM] Re: Majority Winners (was Ventura)

Adam wrote - Now I bet that Demorep thinks two years is two too many for a minority approved candidate. But do we have any assurances that the legislature won't pick somebody WORSE? We don't, really. In times of severe factionalism, the best you can hope to do is elect the candidate with th

[EM] RE: Gerrymander story- Economist

Alex wrote in part -- I wonder when they'll be able to say "Alex is in apartment 22 and registered with this party, and the guy in apt. 21 is a different party, so let's draw the line between those units." --- D- Welcome to the cynical world of minority rule gerrymanders. At least the gerryman

[EM] 2002 U.S.A. campaign finance law cases

http://www.law.stanford.edu/library/campaignfinance/ has th various 2002 U.S.A. campaign finance law cases. How many pounds (tons ???) of paper in all cases ??? I continue to note the indirect minority rule math of the ANTI-Democracy gerrymander/ plurality regime in the U.S.A. Congress that en

RE: Bounded AV

Mr. Hager wrote in part- With the Venetian system, set it up so that a failure of any candidate to get at least 66% means that all candidates are rejected and a new election with new candidates must be held. --- D- Democracy = 50 % plus 1 ANTI- Democracy = less than 50 % plus 1 Super-Democrac

RE: Forest's 3-bit approval method

Alex wrote in part- I would suggest a minor modification, however: Let people indicate more than one preferred choice, so that in the presence of (perceived) clones voters could put both clones number 1. Simply put three ratings on the ballot: Preferred, Approved, Disapproved. If more tha

[EM] Sum of Place Votes

Since Number Voting (1, 2, etc.) is here via IRV, another method would be to sum the place votes for the first half of the places (if there is NO first place majority winner) -- pending computerized voting to do ALL the head to head math. Example 5 choices NO first place majority choice. Sum

[EM] The Worse than Junk IRV method

Donald who has become a flaming IRV fanatic (who just loves his ignorance of Condorcet) wrote in part- Donald: So, you tried to explain Condorcet to her, did you now. In your explanation, did you tell her that the French election would require 105 pairings? Did you tell her that a voter wo

RE: The Worse than Junk IRV method

Another monster IRV example A,B leftwing extremists Stalin, Lenin, Mao, etc. Y,Z rightwing extremists Hitler, Mussolini, Le Pen , etc. M Moderate 22 ABM 21 ZYM 20 BAM 19 YZM 18 M 100 With Donald's favorite IRV (without the voters straining too much to vote for more than 3 choices)

[EM] Gerrymander story- Economist

The Economist, a U.K. politics magazine, has a story about gerrymanders in the U.S.A. at http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1099030 The story is also in the print edition circa 27 April 2002 (with the France President election flap on the cover -- an extremist rightist

[EM] Re: The Allure of IRV

Forest wrote in part- Who would object to "Bucklin Done Right" if they were told ... "Put two check marks next to your favorite's name, and one mark next to the name of each acceptable alternative. If nobody's favorite gets a majority, then the candidate acceptable to the greatest number of vote

[EM] Re: The Allure of IRV

Mr. Ossipoff wrote in part- I guess my main concern with Condorcet proposals is that it takes some listening, some attention, some study, for a person to understand why one rank-count is better than another. I just don't know if enough people will make that effort. --- D- Your average friendly

[EM] Info to Newbies

D- >I again suggest that new EM folks (aka newbies) be given info and directed >to look at certain web pages so that the same old election math 101 >questions do NOT have to be answered again and again by EM senior citizens. Adam- http://meta.wikipedia.com/wiki.phtml?title=Electoral_reform_ja

Re: Number Voting

In a message dated 4/25/02 2:54:38 PM, Alex wrote: <> D- There are various methods --- a main subject of this list --- especially if there is NO Condorcet (Head to Head) winner in a single office case. Plurality only uses the first place votes -- and is thus obviously highly defective. A

[EM] Britain tests early, high-tech voting

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/04/25/high.tech.voting.ap/index.html Britain tests early, high-tech voting LONDON, England (AP) -- In an effort to promote interest in next month's local elections, some districts began experimenting Thursday with letting people cast ballots early at mobile v

Re: Number Voting?

In a message dated 4/24/02 11:28:58 PM, Alex wrote: <> --- D- Number your choices 1, 2, etc -- used in Condorcet and other methods. Place Votes Table (resulting from Number Voting) 1 2 3 etc. AA1 A2A3 etc. BB1 B2B3etc. CC1 C2C3 etc. e

[EM] Re: The Allure of IRV

Adam wrote in part- Approval, on the other hand, makes the most sense to those who have only been exposed to lone mark plurality. It is an obvious improvement once you get a decent amount of information about it, and of course it costs nothing to implement. I would push for approval voting i

[EM] French system creates power struggle

D- One of these centuries there will be separation of legislative, executive and judicial powers and *democratic* election systems (to get rid of various monarchy/ oligarchy systems that keep causing all sorts of problems). - http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/france/12/05/political.syste

RE: The Allure of IRV...

Alex wrote- This is the problem with dissuading people against IRV: The idea of a guaranteed majority looks so great, never mind that the majority is very path-dependent (which leads to non-monotonicity, IIAC, etc.). It also looks so great that if our favorite is gone, well, at least we can

[EM] France President election top 2 runoff

D - A real world example of the extremist effects of even top 2 runoff election systems. Runoff in a few weeks. Any election method folks in France ??? What happens when IRV in the U.S.A. starts getting 2 top extremists with 3 choices remaining ??? - http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/

[EM] Rural voters crucial in House election battle

D- Gerrymander power -- What a total ANTI- Democracy political fraud. When will AP ever hear about proportional representation -- producing NO safe 1 party seats ??? The 435 Rep. folks (along with the 100 U.S.A. Senators) are now taxing the general public and spending for special interest gang

[EM] Candidate Vote Transfer Proportional Representation Method, 20 April 2002

Candidate Vote Transfer Proportional Representation Method 20 April 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [optional/ fill the blank] Sec. 1. (a) A legislative body shall have 5, 7, 9, etc. at large members or 11, 15, 21, etc. district members respectively from 2, 3, 4, etc. districts [or a combination of ea

[EM] Re: Lincoln; Big money, gerrymanders, rotten EC, etc.

Mr. Hager wrote- I'm currently investigating the possibility of using "cake cutting" as a way to avoid gerrymanders in the redistricting process. D- The gerrymander crisis in the U.S.A. is now ULTRA-DANGEROUS (due to the many left/ right extremists being elected from *safe* de facto one

[EM] France President Election

BBC TV news had a story tonight about the election for President of France on Sunday. If no candidate gets a majority, then the top 2 candidates are in a runoff election. The story showed some of the left/ right extremist candidates (with an estimate that the combined extremists will get a ma

[EM] Midterm Candidates Raise Big Money

D- 435 U.S. Rep. gerrymander seats in 2002 -- about 36 competitive = about 8 percent competitive 34 U.S. Senator gerrymander seats in 2002. 2003 result- more of the same U.S.A. government of the minority rule gerrymander, by the minority rule gerrymander and for the minority rule gerrymander.

RE: 1919 (Weimar) and 1949 Germany Constitutions

See also- http://www.aceproject.org/main/english/es/esy_de.htm Administration and Cost of Elections Project Electoral Systems: Germany: The Original Mixed Member Proportional System For more information about this list (subscribe, unsubscribe, FAQ, etc), please see http://www.eskimo.com/

[EM] 1919 (Weimar) and 1949 Germany Constitutions

D- Some info about the 1919 (Weimar) and 1949 (old West) Germany Constitutions with the latter incorporating the old East Germany after German reunification. --- http://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/law/gm01000_.html Germany - Weimar Constitution (Extracts) - { Adopted on: 11

RE: BC & PR

Mr. Salmi wrote in part- I skimmed through the constitution and didn't find much on elections so you're right about that. The Weimar Constitution in German: http://www.psm-data.de/weimar/weimar_vv.htm D- The W.C. likely got some mention in the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials after World War

[EM] Re: ACC, more strategy-free?

Adam wrote- For reference, Mike is referring to my example, where the sincere preferences are: 49: Bush>Gore>Nader 12: Gore>Bush>Nader 12: Gore>Nader>Bush 27: Nader>Gore>Bush --- D- Who, if anybody, with all the strategy / insincere machinations has a YES majority ??? For more informatio

[EM] U.S.A. GOVERNMENT, 2003-2005 PRELIMINARY MINORITY RULE MATH

U.S.A. GOVERNMENT, 2003-2005 PRELIMINARY MINORITY RULE MATH Preliminary math as if the 2000 President Votes were being used for the Nov. 2002 Representative Seats and the Nov. 2004 Electoral College PV 2000 PRESIDENT VOTES, S 2003 REP. SEATS, ECV 2004 ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES A case is pending

RE: the poll

Mr. Ossipoff wrote in part- In the ideal best category I vote for BeatpathWinner(wv)/CSSD. D- Could an example with about 5 choices be done ??? What is the strategy to play games with BeatpathWinner(wv)/CSSD ??? I will make the rash assumption that there is such a strategy and that Mr. Os

[EM] 2000 POPULATIONS - 2000 PRESIDENT VOTES

2000 POPULATIONS - 2000 PRESIDENT VOTES POP 2000 CENSUS POPULATIONS (April 2000), PV 2000 PRESIDENT VOTES (Nov. 2000) PV/POP (as percentages - LOW TO HIGH) STATEPOP PV PV/POP PCT AVE AZ 5140683 1532016 29.8 79.6 HI 1216642 367951 30.2 80.8

Re: The Rotted Electoral College (was Action)

Mr. Hager wrote in part- That pretty much sums it up. For me, the real issue is balancing state power and protecting minority interests. That's why I'd want to see direct election of senators repealed. It would take a different mind set than the one dominant today for that sort of solution

RE: 04/12/02 - Favorite is the Approval Winner:

The always interesting Donald (who detects things somewhat differently than some some (or many) folks) wrote-- When one of these minor Deities use the term `favorite' that means they have eye-balled all the choices and then they have secretly used Approval Voting to calculate the winner. ---

Re: parliamentary single-winner choices

In a message dated 4/13/02 1:24:31 AM, Mr. Ossipoff wrote: <> D- Some things are YES/ NO *substantive* (like -- should Z be done by public officers ???) and other things are filling the blanks (with numbers) - such as shall X public officers be doing Z ??? In other words-- dividing the

Re: Plurality Worst Losers

I also add my standard ANTI-IRV example -- 34 HWS 33 SWH 16 WSH 16 WHS 99 If PWS was being used, then S loses -- 50 last place votes. 34 HW 33 WH 16 WH 16 WH 99 H loses -- 65 last place votes W wins. H Hitler, S Stalin, W Washington (or another *compromise* choice) Generally compromise choi

[EM] Senate passes bill aimed at reforming elections

D- The Supremes may yet have to act (as in Bush v. Gore, ___ U.S. (2000)) if the bill/law goes beyond anything directly connected with the election of U.S.A. Representatives and U.S.A. Senators. The States are NOT quite yet dead in the area of holding elections for President Electors a

[EM] Re: Action

Mr. Weinstein wrote in part- Such a survey portion may not be the key part of the paper for reporters or public to focus on, but it will help make the case that Approval (unlike IRV or Lone-Mark) is the result of systematic scientific study and objective considerations, and is not merely anoth

[EM] Plurality Worst Losers

If Condorcet can not be done (as is the case in many low tech/ poorer areas), then the worst choice (in the largest number (plurality) of last place votes) can be eliminated one at a time if simple Number Voting (1, 2, etc.) is being used. Votes in each Place 1 2 etc.

Re: Elisabeth's questions

In a message dated 4/10/02 6:24:53 PM, you wrote: <> --- D- As usual I suggest that certain *basic* material (especially definitions and various methods WITH examples) be on the EM website so new folks do not to decipher / guess what is being written on this list.

[EM] Small Legislative Bodies Proportional Representation Method, 10 April 2002

Small Legislative Bodies Proportional Representation Method, 10 April 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] A p.r. method for smaller private and public legislative bodies --- no districts. [fill the text] - Sec..1. The [name of the legislative body] shall consist of [N] Members. Sec. 2. Each candidate

Re: falsifying voters' rankings--no.

Adam wrote in part- Nobody has seriously advocated the use of Condorcet voting in multi-winner elections. --- D- Not quite. Condorcet in the single winner case is the limiting case of Condorcet in the multiple winner case. 2 or more Test Winners versus Test Loser (Others deemed Other Test L

Re: AV used in Oshkosh, WI?

In a message dated 4/9/02 6:19:42 PM, you wrote: > D- Many local governments have primary elections in which a primary voter may vote for up to N choices with the top 2xN choices being nominated. In the general election, a vot

[EM] Party Seats/ Proxy Proportional Representation Method, 8 Apr 2002

Party Seats/ Proxy Proportional Representation Method, 8 Apr 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [optional/ fill the blank] Sec. 1. (a) The [Name of Legislative Body] shall consist of [T] Total Members elected for [1] year terms from [T/5] districts [(dropping fractions)] formed at least [36] weeks before

[EM] RE: Action

Alex wrote in part- Prospects for reform: 2 pages. Cite examples of states with strong third parties, a numerical estimate of how many races were thrown by spoilers in 2000, and find out which states allow (a) state-wide or local ballot measures initiated by voters and (b) counties and citie

RE: 04/05/02 - I Know the Drill, Adam, I'll be on the same page

Donald asked -- Why is it that some examples on this list use names like Hilter, Stalin, and, of course, names like Favorite, Compromise, and Worst? - D- Answer -- because some folks have enough brains to see that IRV will promote EXTREMIST candidates and use *harsh* examples. Tim

[EM] Electoral Numbers Game Favors Bush For 2004 Election

D- Having a gerrymander stacked deck is always nice for an incumbent. Abolish the infamous Electoral College NOW. Democracy Remedy-- One person- One Vote for U.S.A. President who is supposed to be the President of ALL of the People of the U.S.A. and NOT just the President of the People in

[EM] Voting Systems Standards Meetings, May 2002

http://www.fec.gov/pages/VSSAPRegnotice.htm Register Now for the 2002 Voting Systems Standards and Advisory Panel Meetings    The Federal Election Commission's Office of Election Administration invites you to attend a meeting introducing the updated Voting Systems Standards documen

[EM] Re: New clones definition?

Origin of clones- N1 A > B N2 B > A N Total votes C comes along C *may* beat - A B A and B neither A or B (is beat by both A and B). The degree of beatings may, of course, vary --- by 1 vote to 100 percent of the votes. One can not obviously detect if a beating is due to internal *clonenes

[EM] Primary Votes of new U.S.A. Representatives and U.S.A. Senators, 2000 Election

Primary Votes of new U.S.A. Representatives and U.S.A. Senators, 2000 Election The below ONLY is for new members with reported primary votes. PV Primary (or top 2 Runoff Primary) election votes GV General election votes Pct - PV as percent of GV U.S.A. Representatives 2000 Election

RE: U.S.A. government elections, Seats Percentages versus Vo tes Percentages

Josh asked- Is there any way to sum the House and Senate over/under representation figures? --- D- It depends a bit. Votes for losers in gerrymander/ plurality areas are obviously ALL *wasted* -- under-represented votes. Votes more than the votes for the second place choice are *wasted* (tho

[EM] U.S.A. government elections, Seats Percentages versus Votes Percentages

U.S.A. Government Elections, Seats Percentages versus Votes Percentages, by States, 2001-2003 - Each Democrat, Republican, Other/Nonvotes column is the Seats Percentages minus the Votes Percentages for the office involved. Or, in other words the ef

[EM] Party Seats/ Proxy Proportional Representation System, 1 Apr 2002

D- The language has been revised. -- Party Seats/ Proxy Proportional Representation System 1 Apr 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [optional/ fill the blank] Sec. 1. (a) The [Name of Legislative Body] shall consist of [T] Total Members elected for [1] year terms from [T/5] districts [(dropping fracti

[EM] Re: Winning-votes intuitive?

ALL methods have problems with 3 or more choices due to having divided majorities (if there is no first choice majority). 2 examples -- Initial votes in each example 26 AB 25 BA 49 Z 100 34 ABC 33 BCA 32 CAB 99 Who, if anybody, has a YES majority ??? If the initial polls do show any

[EM] Quebec Considers U.S.-Style Political Reforms

Quebec Considers U.S.-Style Political Reforms QUEBEC (AP) - Quebec is considering major democratic reforms to give the province a U.S.-inspired republican system unseen in Canadian history, the government announced Thursday. Possible measures include an independently elected head of governme

[EM] re: 03/29/02 - Rob Richie Letter and Non-Monotonicity

Alex wrote in part- It is not unreasonable to assume this profile: 30% Bill > George > Ross 7% Bill > Ross > George 25% Ross > George > Bill 6% Ross > Bill > George 25% George > Bill > Ross 7% George > Ross > Bill The runoff is between Slick Bill and Papa George. 25% of the electorat

RE: Saari and Cyclic Ambiguities

Alex wrote in part- Saari pointed out that cyclic ambiguities come from a "Condorcet profile" or "symmetric profile". If the electorate consists of 3 groups 35 A>B>C 33 B>C>A 32 C>A>B we can "decompose" the electorate into 32 A>B>C + 3 A>B>C 32 B>C>A + 1 B>C>A 32 C>A>B D- Sel

[EM] RE: BC & PR

SB wrote in part- Thanks for your informative comments on Hilter's rise. I am learning as we go. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the German PR system based on the PLURALITY of votes received by each party, where the ballot listed the parties rather than the individual candidates? --- D-

[EM] Party Seats/ Proxy Proportional Representation System

Party Seats/ Proxy Proportional Representation System 28 Mar 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [optional/ fill the blank] Sec. 1. (a) The [Name of Legislative Body] shall consist of [T] Total Members elected for [1] year terms from [T/5] to [T/6] districts formed at least [280] days before an Election da

[EM] RE: BC & PR

SB wrote in part- First, I thank you for the reference to another book on Hitler' rise to power. I hope to get my hands on it. In the meantime, let me post a little excerpt from the booklet, the 31st in a series of "Public Policy Pamphlets" published by the University of Chicago Press, which I re

[EM] IRV Elections- CVD

The CVD website at http://www.fairvote.org/ has some links to info about recent IRV elections.

RE: BC & PR

SB wrote I just read a very interesting little book (or booklet) which makes a plausible case that the election of Hitler and Mussolini was due to the proportional representation system then used in Germany and Italy (Hermens, F. A., _Democracy and Proportional Representation_, University of Chi

RE: Lewis Carroll and limited vote

Limited voting is only useful in areas with primitive voting systems (like the U.S.A. ???). BUT -- ANY pro-Democracy reform is better than none --- especially to end the minority rule gerrymander/ plurality regimes in the U.S.A. Congress and every State Legislature.

Re: U.S.A. GOVERNMENT - VOTING POWER INEQUALITIES, NOV. 2000 ELECTION

In a message dated 3/25/02 9:51:35 AM, you wrote: josh.narins wrote in part- <> --- D- NO. PV= PRESIDENT VOTES Census numbers are irrelevant (and instantly obsolete) regarding actual voting powers of actual voters.

[EM] FEC -- Draft Voting System Standards

http://www.fec.gov/pages/vss/vss.html More info about voting systems in the FEC.

[EM] Senate to Upgrade Voting Systems

Senate to Upgrade Voting Systems By JANELLE CARTER WASHINGTON (AP) - Senators agreed Friday to pass legislation next month to upgrade the nation's voting systems in the wake of the disputed 2000 presidential election results in Florida. The agreement calls for lawmakers to debate the bill

[EM] Alaska Court Rejects Redistricting

A report from the outer real world of gerrymanders. Which State will be the last to have its brand new post- 2000 Census minority rule gerrymanders in force ??? --- Alaska Court Rejects Redistricting ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) - The Alaska Supreme Court rejected the state's redistricting

[EM] U.S.A. GOVERNMENT - VOTING POWER INEQUALITIES, NOV. 2000 ELECTION

The ANTI-Democracy voting power inequalities in the below produce the U.S.A. government laws and treaties (along with the gerrymanders for electing U.S.A. Representaties in States having 2 or more seats and the special interest gang plurality/ top 2 runoff nominations of the later winners).

[EM] Proportional Representation System with Hare Quotas, revised 23 Mar 2002

Proportional Representation System with Hare Quotas There happens to be a very strong (but wrong) fixation with having 1 vote per seat in legislative bodies. A candidate will directly (or indirectly) get more than, equal to or less than the Total Votes/ Total Seats ratio (aka Hare Quota). In

RE: More on Gerrymander prevention

Jurij wrote - Most of the countries draw districts according to the total "population". Some draw them according to the "total number of voters" (for example England) but none does it according to the "votes cast". The reason is called "equal voting right principle". If the districts would be

[EM] Proportional Representation System with Hare Quotas

Proportional Representation System with Hare Quotas 22 Mar 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- There is a very strong fixation with having 1 vote per seat in legislative bodies. A candidate will initially get more than, equal to or less than the Total Votes/ Total Seats ratio. The excess votes (or lose

[EM] BASIC PARTS OF THE B.C. GREEN PARTY P.R. PROPOSAL FEB. 2002

BASIC PARTS OF THE BRITISH COLUMBIA (CANADA) GREEN PARTY PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION PROPOSAL FEB. 2002 http://elections.bc.ca/init/i2002.html Initiative to Establish a Proportional Representation Electoral System   Petition number:IP-2002-001 Proponent's name: Adriane Carr -- D- The

RE: More on Gerrymander prevention

Mr. Weinstein wrote in part- For this reason of relative ease of communication, at least near long high mountain ranges like the Andes or the Sierra Nevada, a long skinny (and maybe a bit twisted) Chile-like or Owens-Valley-like district may be precisely what one needs. --- D- Each distric

re: Gerrymandering and PR

Adam wrote in part- These are valid concerns, which, along with practical voting and counting concerns, argue against very large districts. On the other hand, if you have small districts you don't get real proportionality. In my opinion, you have to have at least 5 or 6 seats in a district

Re: WSJ Gerrymander story

With Proxy P.R. there can be some sort of semi-permanent districts -- 1 or more political subdivisions or part of 1 subdivision. Proxy P.R. = Each winner has a voting power in the legislative body equal to the number of votes that he/she finally receives (directly and from losers). At least 2

[EM] Salus populi suprema lex -- John Locke

D- Locke in the below is referring to the old depopulated *rotten boroughs* dating from the early Middle Ages (having very few voters controlled by a very few landlords -- many in the House of Lords) used to elect many members of the English House of Commons. It was not until the 1833 U.K.

[EM] WSJ Gerrymander story

D- A story from reality land --- Wall Street Journal JOHN FUND'S POLITICAL DIARY Red-Light District It's time to draw the line on gerrymandering. Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:01 a.m. EST Every census sets off a new round of political mischief called gerrymandering. For the past few

[EM] Detroit, Mich. City Council election Nov. 2001

An example of at large voting in a fading away former major city. - Detroit, Mich. City Council election Nov. 2001 Nonpartisan, Vote for 9 at most, Top 9 elected Percent of Total voters 67.5 1 63.9 2 63.2 3 63.0 4 55.5 5 50.6 6 45.5 7 45.1 8 36.6 9 -- 35.8 10 29.2

[EM] Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. ___ (2000)

In view of some recent comments --- comments from the Supremes about the Equal Protection Clause are below. The lower courts are in a state of chaos pending more EPC opinions from the Supremes in the voting rights area. Good luck to anybody attacking IRV or for that matter plurality in the Su

[EM] Re: Approval's effect on candidates

Mr. Ossipoff wrote in part- Approval is much better than one would expect a nonranked method to be. --- D- Approval is simply YES. Two or more choices may get YES majorities -- thus requiring Head to Head (Condorcet). Since there may not be a CW, then some sort of tiebreaker is needed. Most

[EM] CVD Comments on IRV Mar. 11, 2002

March 11, 2002 To: Friends of Fair Elections Fr:Rob Richie, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Executive Director Center for Voting and Democracy, www.fairvote.org Takoma Park, Maryland Re: - Ground-breaking wins for instant runoff voting - Links and news shorts (This updat

[EM] IRV in SF and beyond (FWD)

D- More info about IRV in SF from another list - Original Message Follows From: "Bill Gram-Reefer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Wayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: IRV in SF and beyond Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:17:12 -0800 Hello Wayne, Legs are growing under IRV! Below find a press anno

RE: Saari's Basic Argument

Mr. Small wrote in part- We could say that the 32 people with C>A>B, combined with 32 of those in each of the other categories, cancel out. It would be like saying in a 2- way race that 40 ballots cast for A cancel out 40 of the ballots cast for B, leaving an excess of 20 ballots for B.

Re: Re: [EM] Re: Observations of a Poll Worker

In a message dated 3/8/02 9:47:36 AM, you wrote: jure.toplak wrote- <> D- If you are NOT qualified to register in a State in the U.S., then the election bureaucrats should reject your form. If you lie on the form, then you are a felon.

[EM] Re: IRV wins big in SF & Vermont

Mr. Ossipoff wrote in part- Here are some things that I'd check for [if IRV is used]: 1. A result that, when published, would show some people reason to regret that they didn't bury their favorite by ranking a compromise over him. 2. A violation of Monotonicity or Participation 3. A result

Re: Re: [EM] Re: Observations of a Poll Worker

In a message dated 3/8/02 9:47:36 AM, you wrote: jure.toplak wrote- <> D- If you are NOT qualified to register in a State in the U.S., then the election bureaucrats should reject your form. If you lie on the form, then you are a felon.

[EM] Fair Elections Newsflash: Big Wins for Instant Runoff Voting (FWD)

>From CVD--- -- (Greetings to CVD members. We are preparing to send this out through our new bulk email program, but it's proving a little balky, so we'd at least like to make sure this very good news reaches all of you! Please feel encouraged to share it as you see fit And thanks ag

[EM] Re: Margins vs Winning Votes

26 AB 25 BA 49 CX 100 Who wins (with or without insincere /strategic votes) ??? OR -- the mysterious case of solving for X (= A and/or B, anywhere from zero to 49) Any answers from Mr. LeGrand or Mr. Ossipoff ???

Re: Smith Sets with >3 members

Mr. Schulze wrote- every election method that meets the majority criterion is vulnerable to "compromising". In so far as a voter will usually approve at least that candidate who gets this voter's first preference, you cannot circumvent this incompability by using "some hybrid method that requires

RE: Ranked Pairs vs. SSD vs. Plain Condorcet

Mr. LeGrand wrote in part- 98:Abby>Cora>Erin>Dave>Brad 64:Brad>Abby>Erin>Cora>Dave 12:Brad>Abby>Erin>Dave>Cora 98:Brad>Erin>Abby>Cora>Dave 13:Brad>Erin>Abby>Dave>Cora 125:Brad>Erin>Dave>Abby>Cora 124:Cora>Abby>Erin>Dave>Brad 76:Cora>Erin>Abby>Dave>Brad 21:Dave>Abby>Brad>Erin>Cora 30:Dave>B

[EM] State Ordered to Replace Old Vote Machines

D- Another *hammer* order from the courts -- like Bush v. Gore, ___ U.S. ___ (2000). - Los Angeles Times State Ordered to Replace Old Vote Machines By Henry Weinstein February 14, 2002 A federal judge in Los Angeles on Wednesday ruled that California has to replace outmoded punch-card vo

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