Re: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

MIL-STD-461D/E/F specifically state no relation between RS & RE: “There is no implied relationship between this requirement and RS103 which addresses radiated susceptibility to electric fields. Attempts have been made quite frequently in the past to compare electric field radiated emission and su

RE: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

For some reason I have always been under the assumption that 61000-4-3 was primarily concerned with the susceptibility to handheld transmitters. The early versions of this standard did not mention a uniform field larger than 1.5 x 1.5 meters, only that EUTs larger than 1.5x1.5 must be painted (eith

RE: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

RE automotive standards, think about the multitude of susceptible devices now found in a automobiles, many on a 2-wire, AC coupled data bus. So when I drive by transmitting at 500V/m (near field), what happens? Hmm, IIRC MIL-STD-462d said the radiated susceptibilty level was selected by referenc

Re: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

In message <6ca01261db112447985ae5123987eb02391...@ccexbe01.ntscorp.com>, dated Fri, 30 Oct 2009, David Raynes writes: >I sense the involvement of liability lawyers. :-) Tautology; every lawyer is a liability. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodg

RE: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

>Stereos rarely suffer from total brake failure. But I am sure they can sound like one ... ;<))) Gert Gremmen Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens John Woodgate Verzonden: zaterdag 31 oktober 2009 0:07 Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: Re: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in

Re: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

In message <686986.76483...@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, dated Fri, 30 Oct 2009, Bill Owsley writes: >Do car drivers complain more about their cars than the house stereo?? Stereos rarely suffer from total brake failure. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk

RE: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

I sense the involvement of liability lawyers. :-) Regards, David Raynes Senior EMC Technologist National Technical Systems Inc. 5151 - 47th Street N.E. Calgary, Alberta Canada T3J 3R2 1-403-568-6605 x227 Fax: 1-403-568-6970 david.ray...@ntscorp.com

RE: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

The automotive guys are having a bit of a chuckle. Their immunity levels are somewhat higher due to field surveys of what field strengths the cars might be driven through. At one point a few years ago one car manufacturer was asking for 600 V/m. I think they settled on 200 V/m. Do car drivers c

RE: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

Marko: I remembered the RI levels were based on field strength survey of the populated areas close to the radio transmitter towers. There are lots of field survey papers about the RI limits presented to and reviewed by the committees for ballot. One famous case was the kitchen fan playing radi

Re: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

In message <9b3574c46f30c14ab913c916e1d3c3eb4c12a3d...@ops-mail.opnext.com>, dated Fri, 30 Oct 2009, "Radojicic, Marko" writes: >I seriously doubt that there is any scientific investigation that >points to 1, 3, 10 V/m providing adequate protection for certain >environments. The 'scientific

Re: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

I don’t know the author of the post to which I responded. Also, my response did not address the original post question, because I wasn’t involved in the limit setting and don’t have the answers. I was addressing the specific post to which I replied. And since that post came with a disclaimer sa

RE: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

Hi Ken, >From your response, you probably don’t know Alvin very well if at all. You can say a lot of things about Alvin (and I probably have :-) ) but embarrassing the profession isn’t one of them. But backing off from the personal issues, your response didn’t really address the question o

RE: certifying overall products vs. certifying individual constituant chassis

Fascinating indeed the dialogue between Gert and John W. I feel encouraged by Jim's message to add an input to this topic We do our own certification (safety and EMC) for the EU market. Our products include or consist of racks/cabinets containing CE marked equipment. The products we sell can be "s

RE: Accepting test reports from non accredited labs

HI All There are two methods that the FCC keeps track of labs. One is to be listed with the FCC, the other is to be accredited by a accrediting body and recognized by the FCC. A lab that is listed sends the NSA data, photos, contact names, address etc to the FCC which reviews this data and if

Re: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

The only thing right about that post is the disclaimer, and that is only if you have an odd sense of humor. RE limits are set to protect broadcast radio reception, while RI/RS limits are set to bracket intentional transmitters. The margin between receivers and transmitters is between femto- and p

Accepting test reports from non accredited labs

Hello all! First of all – Thank you all for the comments and suggestions. I have been told that there *is* a method that non-accredited labs can issue test report for US markets. Apparently the methodology is to skip straight to the Certification route even if the product has no intentional

RE: certifying overall products vs. certifying individual constituant chassis

Guys, The responses to my question regarding certifying products at the ensemble overall product level vs. certifying at the individual chassis, or subsystem, level have been fascinating and appreciated. I appreciate the robust and knowledgeable input from expert consultants and test labs. I e

RE: Where does 3V/m & 10V/m in RI come from?

IIRC the radiated immunity limits are set at X dB of something above the emissions limits creating a guard band. The theory being that there is a built in tolerance between the allowable emissions in the field and the level at which equipment is supposed to begin to be susceptible. I think I h

RE: [PSES] India_US MRA for EMC?

Hi Charles, This question was posted on Interference Technology’s Testing Forum, and received a few replies. To view the replies, please visit the link below. http://www.interferencetechnology.com/i terference-technology-forum.html?tx_mmf rum_pi1%5Baction%5D=list_post&tx_mmforum_pi1%5Btid%5D=1

Re: certifying overall products vs. certifying individual constituant chassis

In message , dated Fri, 30 Oct 2009, "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" writes: >Custom or not. It's the same. >CE marking applies also to single items to its full extend. The word >"custom" is not mentioned in the guide, nor "rack". > >From the Guide to 2004/108/EC : What you hav

Re: certifying overall products vs. certifying individual constituant chassis

In message , dated Fri, 30 Oct 2009, "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" writes: >I'd prefer not to refer to Guides to >withdrawn directives. Not in general, >nor in this specific case. > >The term installation has been removed. >The choice now is: > >Apparatus or >Fixed Installation

RE: certifying overall products vs. certifying individual constituant chassis

I'd prefer not to refer to Guides to withdrawn directives. Not in general, nor in this specific case. The term installation has been removed. The choice now is: Apparatus or Fixed Installation. (Note the word Fixed). >While this text does not appear (shame!) in the Guidelines to the >current D

RE: certifying overall products vs. certifying individual constituant chassis

Custom or not. It's the same. CE marking applies also to single items to its full extend. The word "custom" is not mentioned in the guide, nor "rack". >From the Guide to 2004/108/EC : 1.2.2 Combination of finished appliances (systems) A combination of several finished appliances which is made c

Re: certifying overall products vs. certifying individual constituant chassis

In message , dated Fri, 30 Oct 2009, John Woodgate writes: >My advice refers to **custom assemblies**, NOT single items of >commerce, which must be tested for EMC and safety as a whole, as I have >said many times. Maybe it would help if you looked at 6.5.2 of the Guidelines to the former EMC

RE: India_US MRA for EMC? - Expanded.

>It turns out that NABL is a signatory to both the ILAC (International Laboratory Accreditation Cooperation) and the APLAC (Asia Pacific Laboratory >Accreditation Cooperation) agreements. These agreements are suppose to make all accredited labs equal. NVLAP and A2LA are also signatories to >the sam

Re: certifying overall products vs. certifying individual constituant chassis

In message , dated Fri, 30 Oct 2009, "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" writes: > >Please all, be aware that this is a grey area in regulations in the EC >and I must all advice you to be careful when just assemble piles of >equipment in a rack, and put that on the EC market. AGAI

RE: certifying overall products vs. certifying individual constituant chassis

>I really think this is beyond sensible. The emission limits have been >set, **taking into account that one product is very rarely use in an >environment where there is no other product operating and emitting.** ... **taking into account that a single piece of equipment is very rarely used in (l

Re: certifying overall products vs. certifying individual constituant chassis

In message <380-2200910429224138...@earthlink.net>, dated Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Cortland Richmond writes: >Willful ignorance -- choosing to ignore a fact one knew or should have >known -- is far from being a defense when questioned on compliance >matters.  Would the choice not to test for combined